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Talk About Tulsa => Other Tulsa Discussion => Topic started by: zstyles on February 18, 2013, 09:53:45 am



Title: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: zstyles on February 18, 2013, 09:53:45 am
Interesting story, and also interesting comments as usual..the unhappy franchisee website looks to have helped turned the PR spin machine the other way, which was the TW.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=46&articleid=20130217_46_E1_CUTLIN825794

"Today, Oklahoma has just six Camille's locations left. In addition to the Woodland Hills restaurant, high-profile locations on Cherry Street and in Bartlesville are among those that have disappeared. "

http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/beautiful-brands-ugly-shams/

Sample of some comments..."The UnhappyFranchisee site spanked TW HARD and, to their credit, Kyle & Co. came back with a pretty good article. It's not easy to go negative on your local golden boy. I'm hopeful it was a wake-up call and they'll be more serious in the future."


So you don't have to dig for it: http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/tulsa-world-deceptive-or-lazy/

http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/beautiful-brands-letter-tulsa-world/


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Teatownclown on February 18, 2013, 11:12:24 am
This clown chain claim to suck cess was so obviously misplaced. Which bank funded this guy?

Next up? TW sells to Anshutz in Denver?

Things are rough all over.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: DTowner on February 18, 2013, 11:26:51 am
Most franchisor/franchisee agreements are heavily tilted towards the franchisor and it is not uncommon to have a high failure rate and disgruntled franchisees.  Franchises are often used by people with too little money and experience to start a business.  Bad combination.  Beautiful Brands seemed to compound this inherent weakness by churning out one bad concept after another even as its flagship brand, Camille's, was starting to fade.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on February 18, 2013, 02:03:42 pm
It seems David's problems are a bit deeper than TW has reported.
http://www.franchisepublicity.com/david-rutkauskas-bizarre-misrepresentations-of-beautiful-brands/

http://www.franchisepublicity.com/david-rutkauskas-are-his-500000-twitter-followers-fakes/


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: zstyles on February 18, 2013, 02:12:30 pm
Will be interesting to see how this all plays out...


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Townsend on February 18, 2013, 02:19:29 pm
Will be interesting to see how this all plays out...

It's sounding like 8801 South Yale Avenue Tulsa, OK 74137 will be available for lease sometime in the near future.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on February 18, 2013, 02:44:33 pm
It seems David's problems are a bit deeper than TW has reported.
http://www.franchisepublicity.com/david-rutkauskas-bizarre-misrepresentations-of-beautiful-brands/

http://www.franchisepublicity.com/david-rutkauskas-are-his-500000-twitter-followers-fakes/

*long, slow whistle*

That boy has a bad case of megalomania.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: dbacks fan on February 18, 2013, 02:54:38 pm
Would really like to hear what Mazzio's has to say about this.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: BKDotCom on February 18, 2013, 02:59:35 pm
all these BBI articles on unhappyfranchisee.com and franchisepublicity.com are great.
I've always thought the non stop BBI PR machine (and the Tulsa World's BBI crush) was more than a little questionable.

Does BBI have anything to do with Top-That Pizza?

This isn't about franchisee's being upset... this is about BBI claiming they have franchisee's and business partners and "things in the works" when they clearly don't.

Bill Hyman, CEO of Tulsa-based KEO restaurant, wrote:
    I had no idea it was on their page…. They have nothing to do with us…   They do not represent us and they do not have our permission to use our logo

great stuff


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on February 18, 2013, 03:07:11 pm
all these BBI articles on unhappyfranchisee.com and franchisepublicity.com are great.
I've always thought the non stop BBI PR machine (and the Tulsa World's BBI crush) was more than a little questionable.

Does BBI have anything to do with Top-That Pizza?

This isn't about franchisee's being upset... this is about BBI claiming they have franchisee's and business partners and "things in the works" when they clearly don't.

Bill Hyman, CEO of Tulsa-based KEO restaurant, wrote:
    I had no idea it was on their page…. They have nothing to do with us…   They do not represent us and they do not have our permission to use our logo

great stuff

I know Hyman through cycling.  He and his wife used to be Camille's franchisees and he told me unequivocally he would never work with BBI or Rutkauskas ever again that's what makes it more hilarious to see that.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: sgrizzle on February 18, 2013, 03:14:22 pm
all these BBI articles on unhappyfranchisee.com and franchisepublicity.com are great.
I've always thought the non stop BBI PR machine (and the Tulsa World's BBI crush) was more than a little questionable.

Does BBI have anything to do with Top-That Pizza?

This isn't about franchisee's being upset... this is about BBI claiming they have franchisee's and business partners and "things in the works" when they clearly don't.

Bill Hyman, CEO of Tulsa-based KEO restaurant, wrote:
    I had no idea it was on their page…. They have nothing to do with us…   They do not represent us and they do not have our permission to use our logo

great stuff

They do, note my inference at how horrible an idea that was:
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=16929.0


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on February 18, 2013, 03:17:31 pm
Top That! severed ties with BBI last year.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: zstyles on February 18, 2013, 03:19:47 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a5/American_greed_title_card.jpg)


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on February 18, 2013, 03:39:31 pm
They do, note my inference at how horrible an idea that was:
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=16929.0

And there's this gem from that thread a "FIFY" I did to a Gaspar post

Quote
BB has a franchise marketing agreement only, no operations.  BB can sell locations under the regional franchise manager.  BB does an excellent job at selling concepts at blowing smoke up unsuspecting investors asses, I however operations is not their gig.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on February 18, 2013, 03:47:52 pm
And there's this gem from that thread a "FIFY" I did to a Gaspar post


I think Top That! made a wise decision in exiting when it became apparent that the BB relationship was not mutually advantageous.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: DTowner on February 18, 2013, 04:03:40 pm
It seems David's problems are a bit deeper than TW has reported.
http://www.franchisepublicity.com/david-rutkauskas-bizarre-misrepresentations-of-beautiful-brands/

http://www.franchisepublicity.com/david-rutkauskas-are-his-500000-twitter-followers-fakes/

Looks like someone is desperate as the walls come closing in.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on February 18, 2013, 04:15:09 pm
Sounds like he may have some time to party with Bill Bartmann pretty soon.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: DolfanBob on February 18, 2013, 04:17:34 pm
Sounds like he may have went to the School of Bartmann Business.

Dang you Conan. Great minds my friend.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Breadburner on February 19, 2013, 07:59:03 am
He's getting slapped around pretty good.....!!!


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: DTowner on February 19, 2013, 04:09:30 pm
Sounds like he may have some time to party with Bill Bartmann pretty soon.

Of course, the Tulsa World never lost its faith in Bartmann.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Teatownclown on February 19, 2013, 04:27:25 pm
It's the recession's fault this house is caving in eh Rutty?....good businessmen fess up about their track records. They do not blame recession because part of their job is positioning themselves to allow for slow downs so their long term prospects remain.

It's been obvious for years that this was a deception.

The guy must have busy attorneys.




Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: davideinstein on February 20, 2013, 04:00:32 pm
It's the recession's fault this house is caving in eh Rutty?....good businessmen fess up about their track records. They do not blame recession because part of their job is positioning themselves to allow for slow downs so their long term prospects remain.

It's been obvious for years that this was a deception.

The guy must have busy attorneys.




Recession is when you can get the customers in and keep them during booms.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on May 21, 2013, 09:10:37 am
Interesting update article from Unhappy Franchisee.

How Franchisors Should – And Shouldn’t – Respond to Internet Criticism
May 10, 2013
How Franchisors Should – And Shouldn’t – Respond to Internet Criticism by Sean Kelly, UnhappyFranchisee.Com

 
No company offering franchise opportunities enjoys having to publicly defend the image that they’ve carefully crafted through their marketing and public relations efforts.
No franchise company wants to air or discuss its dirty laundry in plain sight of customers, employees, shareholders, franchisees and prospective franchisees.
But now, thanks to the Internet, blogs like UnhappyFranchisee.Com and BlueMauMau.com, and social media sites like Facebook and Twitter, public discussion and scrutiny of franchise opportunities is a fact of life… and it’s not going away.

Here’s the story of two franchisors of fast-casual cafes that reacted very differently to similar complaints against them.
The first company reacted with anger, threats and legal action.

The second company reacted by taking the complaints seriously, by publicly addressing factual errors, and by acknowledging and taking steps to correct its shortcomings.
In the end, the way the franchisors chose to react to criticism will have a greater impact on their public images and ability to grow than either the original criticism or their well-crafted marketing/PR personas.

In July, 2012 UnhappyFranchisee.Com posted that, according to a Small Business Administration report, Beautiful Brands International (BBI)’s Camille’s Sidewalk Café had a 58% SBA franchise loan default rate.

In the post CAMILLE’S SIDEWALK CAFE Franchise Complaints, we also published that, according to the company’s own disclosure document, the Camille’s U.S. franchise network has shrunk 60% since 2008.

The post attracted an outpouring of comments from a number of former Camille’s franchisees, who claimed that Camille’s and BBI CEO David Rutkauskas had misrepresented the opportunity, had failed to provide the necessary franchisee support, and was indifferent to whether they succeeded or failed once the initial check cleared.

Camille’s franchisees reported having lost as much as a million dollars, and many recounted the personal financial struggles, including bankruptcy, they endured as a result of investing in the Camille’s franchise.

UnhappyFranchisee.Com contacted David Rutkauskas, CEO of Beautiful Brands International, and offered to publish his response, clarification, or rebuttal to the allegations.  We told Mr. Rutkauskas that if there were merit to some of criticism, that we would be happy to report what steps he and Beautiful Brands have taken or were taking to address and correct these problems.

Instead of responding to numerous offers to join the conversation, David Rutkauskas had his attorney send threatening letters to the former franchisees who had shared their experiences and posted comments under their real names.

UnhappyFranchisee.Com did not take down the comments.  We once again offered Mr. Rutkauskas a chance to address the criticism.
Beautiful Brands then filed a lawsuit against me (then later dismissed it) for expressing my opinion on another website.

In subsequent interviews, David Rutkauskas tried to maintain the success-story façade he had created for his chain, and, when confronted with the unavoidable facts, he blamed the franchisees themselves, he blamed the economy, he blamed partners for backing out of deals, he blamed misrepresentations on writers printing “off-the-record” comments, and he blamed UnhappyFranchisee.Com for focusing on the 70+ Camille’s franchisees that failed instead of the 28 or so that have survived.

In frustration at not being able to control the story, David Rutkauskas posted dozens of fiery personal Twitter attacks on me that included vulgarities, profanity, threats, homophobic (though I’m not gay) and anti-semitic (though I’m not Jewish) insults and invitations to come to Tulsa to fight him (“settle this like men”).

Instead of expressing concern for the plight of the franchisees who failed, instead of taking some responsibility or at least addressing the concerns that were raised, Beautiful Brands and David Rutkauskas’ responded in such a way that reinforced the franchisees’ claims that BBI is indifferent to their struggles, and will use bullying, threats and intimidation to hide their shortcomings.

Since this article was published, Mr. Rutkauskas has deleted his Twitter account.  Probably a good thing, because he had some pretty strange tweets flying around out there.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on May 21, 2013, 10:56:18 am
B...b...but aren't David's millions of Twitter followers going to miss him?


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on May 31, 2013, 08:41:16 am
Can't believe I missed this article in Franchise Times.  I can't see him being in business after this.

http://www.franchisetimes.com/April-2013/Reality-Check/


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: sgrizzle on May 31, 2013, 09:10:57 am
I think Top That! made a wise decision in exiting when it became apparent that the BB relationship was not mutually advantageous.


Had they consulted the forum, they could've saved themselves entering it to begin with.

I believe that BB "intended to" or "wanted to" open all those locations, but without serious capital, or a lot of partners with capital, it just isn't realistic and they found that out the hard way. Anyone who has owned a business that later went franchise can tell you that it's not sunshine and roses. It takes a lot of work, a lot of resources, and strains your existing business as well.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on May 31, 2013, 02:17:16 pm
I was going to invoke the name of Charles Ponzi except no one ever seems to make a return on a BBI scheme.  I'm still trying to get how David ever thought he was a sharp franchisor.  By all accounts of people I know previously associated with them,  BBI has been a major clusterfark since day one.  I'm honestly surprised they've been in business as long as they have so I thought I'd pull an OSCN just to see if the lawsuits are starting to pile up:

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/casesearch.asp?query=true&srch=0&web=true&db=all&number=&iLAST=rutkauskas&iFIRST=&iMIDDLE=&iID=&iDOBL=&iDOBH=&SearchType=0&iDCPT=&iapcasetype=All&idccasetype=All&iDATEL=&iDATEH=&iCLOSEDL=&iCLOSEDH=&iDCType=0&iYear=&iNumber=&icitation=

Pull up the McCoy Group lawsuit at the bottom, it's for over $500,000 in unpaid rent on the Cherry Street location, the petition which is on-line shows a very convoluted corporate and financial structure.  Very troubling to say the least.

/edit add: I didn't think about Camille's Franchise System as "CFS" until I saw that in the suit named above.  Something about Tulsa and the acronym CFS just doesn't seem to work out.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: DolfanBob on May 31, 2013, 03:29:03 pm
I love seeing dirtbags like him and Bartmann exposed for what they truly are. Problem is, criminal charges are never brought against people such as him and the Al Johnsons (Leisure World) in this town. So they just find loop holes around their bad credit. And stick it to the next sucker or Bank that will fall for the song and dance.

My Brother is such a person and is being shut down to the tune of a 2 Million Dollar loan and has a total of close to 500 Thousand in assets. And get this, He just opened another business with a new Wife and I am sure she will be on the hook for the credit when this adventure goes South on him.
Put it this way.....We're not close.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on May 31, 2013, 04:24:12 pm
I love seeing dirtbags like him and Bartmann exposed for what they truly are. Problem is, criminal charges are never brought against people such as him and the Al Johnsons (Leisure World) in this town. So they just find loop holes around their bad credit. And stick it to the next sucker or Bank that will fall for the song and dance.

My Brother is such a person and is being shut down to the tune of a 2 Million Dollar loan and has a total of close to 500 Thousand in assets. And get this, He just opened another business with a new Wife and I am sure she will be on the hook for the credit when this adventure goes South on him.
Put it this way.....We're not close.

Maybe your brother and DR can be special cell-mates some day.  ;)  The ones who are really good at defrauding people and don't ever face criminal prosecution seem to create such a confusing web of corporate entities and finances they manage to insulate themselves from going to the pokey.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on June 14, 2013, 02:01:06 pm
BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE!

http://thislandpress.com/roundups/new-tulsa-world-publisher-faces-troubles-in-first-week/

Sean Kelly, an independent journalist who covers the business of franchising in his blog UnhappyFranchisee.com, has accused Tulsa World Enterprise Editor Ziva Branstetter of launching an investigation into his private affairs and then releasing that information outside of the World to David Rutkauskas, owner of franchising company Beautiful Brands International [BBI], who then used it to publicly hurt and humiliate Kelly. BBI develops several popular franchises, among them Camille’s Sidewalk Cafe and CherryBerry self-serve yogurt bars.

OHH. . .and here's a bit of preamble. Caution, strong language.
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/david-rutkauskas-robert-sartin-sue-themselves/
At least Rutkauskas capitalized the word "Jew" when using it in the derogatory.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on June 14, 2013, 02:17:25 pm
Quote
I will be deactivating my twitter page, dropping my lawsuit and any claims against Sean Kelly to focus on my health and my family



- See more at: http://thislandpress.com/roundups/new-tulsa-world-publisher-faces-troubles-in-first-week/#sthash.rmC9H6Ou.dpuf


Hmmm, "focus on my health"?  Wonder if he's checked into Betty Ford yet.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on June 14, 2013, 02:33:24 pm
More. . .
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/zivagate-letter-to-ziva-branstetter/

In a public apology posted last night (David Rutkauskas Apologizes, Will Drop Lawsuit), BBI CEO David Rutkauskas admits that he was not himself for several weeks, that he was filled with anger, that he was suffering from “extreme lows,” and that he was drinking heavily after years of sobriety.
Into this volatile and potentially dangerous situation, Tulsa World editor Ziva Branstetter provided Rutkauskas with the home address, family composition, wife’s name, cell phone numbers and personal financial history of the man who was the direct focus of his rage.
In the Urban Tulsa Weekly article that broke the story (Stranger than Fiction),  Jaime Adame wrote:  “Branstetter did not deny having provided information about Kelly to Rutkauskas. At the Tulsa World office, Branstetter met for about five minutes with a UTW reporter but declined to comment for this story…. Asked about Branstetter’s email, [David Rutkauskas] only remarked: ‘Whatever she sent me was in confidence, and I don’t want to get into stuff about that.’”


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on June 17, 2013, 09:21:00 am
Groupon today for Camille's Holiday Hills location.  Death rattle?


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: DTowner on June 17, 2013, 09:47:30 am

Hmmm, "focus on my health"?  Wonder if he's checked into Betty Ford yet.

The strange love displayed by the Tulsa World for BBI never made much sense, but at least we can now see the source.  That said, how long will the new owners of the World let this editor's conduct tarnish their new paper's brand?


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on June 17, 2013, 09:56:28 am
I hope Ziva's resume is up to date!


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: swake on June 17, 2013, 10:04:21 am
Groupon today for Camille's Holiday Hills location.  Death rattle?

BBI doesn't own that store. The owner also might just get a discount on the rent for that location.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on June 17, 2013, 01:36:01 pm
Apparently the story gets even stranger. . .


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: patric on June 17, 2013, 01:48:04 pm
I hope Ziva's resume is up to date!

Losing another investigative reporter would be a loss for the community. 
Every once in a while people need to refocus, and it wasnt too long ago her family experienced a loss.  The right encouragement can go a long way.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: DTowner on June 17, 2013, 02:36:55 pm
Losing another investigative reporter would be a loss for the community. 
Every once in a while people need to refocus, and it wasnt too long ago her family experienced a loss.  The right encouragement can go a long way.

Perhaps.  But no one at the Tulsa World ever showed much curiosity as an investigative journalist towards the ever increasingly absurd claims of success by BBI.  It is telling that one of the World's investigative journalists felt it was ok to forward to Rutkauskas research she did on a critic of BBI/Rutkauskas obtained through the newspaper's research resources (even if most of the information was technically publicly available, most of this information was not necessariuly easily obtainable).  Credibility is a precious commodity and now she has none of it as far as I'm concerned.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: swake on June 17, 2013, 03:28:15 pm
Apparently the story gets even stranger. . .

Not really, it's a franchise location and the owner is married to Sharon King Davis' daughter.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on June 17, 2013, 03:35:35 pm
Losing another investigative reporter would be a loss for the community. 
Every once in a while people need to refocus, and it wasnt too long ago her family experienced a loss.  The right encouragement can go a long way.

That's no excuse for abusing her position as a reporter to help someone settle a personal vendetta. 

I see absolutely no difference in what she did than what the DOJ has done in investigating reporter emails.  It surprises me you wouldn't see that similarity yourself, considering you are pretty sensitive about government and police abuse of power when it comes to snooping on people.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: patric on June 18, 2013, 10:23:25 am
I see absolutely no difference in what she did than what the DOJ has done in investigating reporter emails.  It surprises me you wouldn't see that similarity yourself, considering you are pretty sensitive about government and police abuse of power when it comes to snooping on people.

The appearances of impropriety are not lost on me, I just tend to view the two on different scales:  The need to individually council an employee versus large scale, systemic patterns of practice.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on June 18, 2013, 10:35:40 am
The appearances of impropriety are not lost on me, I just tend to view the two on different scales:  The need to individually council an employee versus large scale, systemic patterns of practice.

Since this calls the reporter's integrity into question, who is to say she hasn't snooped on other people at the behest of friends family, or simple  curiosity?  How would that settle with you if she's been creeping the pages here and decided to dredge all sorts of stuff on you for no purpose other than eventually using it against you or giving the information to someone else to use against you?

She ostensibly used her employer's assets for personal purposes un-related to her work and apparently for the purpose of defaming someone's character.  That could get her employer sued along with her.  BH Holdings is an easy target for a shot-gun lawsuit and it would be easy to point to lack of action or supervision if Sean Kelly wanted to bring suit for the Twitter attack if the emails came from the Tulsa World domain.  She also needs to answer for unbiased reporting on BBI if prospective franchisees have relied upon a press kit from BBI with Branstetter's sterling spoon-fed articles to make a purchasing decision with one of BBI's concepts.

Of course, anyone who uses the interwebs at work for anything but work is using employer assets for personal purposes, the difference is, most of us don't use it with the intent to help someone destroy the character of another person.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on June 18, 2013, 11:15:24 am
Since this calls the reporter's integrity into question, who is to say she hasn't snooped on other people at the behest of friends family, or simple  curiosity?  How would that settle with you if she's been creeping the pages here and decided to dredge all sorts of stuff on you for no purpose other than eventually using it against you or giving the information to someone else to use against you?

She ostensibly used her employer's assets for personal purposes un-related to her work and apparently for the purpose of defaming someone's character.  That could get her employer sued along with her.  BH Holdings is an easy target for a shot-gun lawsuit and it would be easy to point to lack of action or supervision if Sean Kelly wanted to bring suit for the Twitter attack if the emails came from the Tulsa World domain.  She also needs to answer for unbiased reporting on BBI if prospective franchisees have relied upon a press kit from BBI with Branstetter's sterling spoon-fed articles to make a purchasing decision with one of BBI's concepts.

Of course, anyone who uses the interwebs at work for anything but work is using employer assets for personal purposes, the difference is, most of us don't use it with the intent to help someone destroy the character of another person.

If she used the Tulsa World's PACER account (public access to court electronic records), there may be some additional legal issues between the courts and the Tulsa World.  Not sure how the court views the distribution of such information to a third party for defamatory purposes.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: guido911 on June 19, 2013, 12:26:32 am

Not sure how the court views the distribution of such information to a third party for defamatory purposes.
Then why bring it up?


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: guido911 on June 19, 2013, 12:33:11 am


She ostensibly used her employer's assets for personal purposes un-related to her work and apparently for the purpose of defaming someone's character.  That could get her employer sued along with her. 

Hypothetically, I could theoretically agree with you, speculatively speaking of course.  :P 


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on June 19, 2013, 09:15:04 am
Hypothetically, I could theoretically agree with you, speculatively speaking of course.  :P 

Ostensibly hypothetically...


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Breadburner on June 19, 2013, 10:08:39 am
Not really, it's a franchise location and the owner is married to Sharon King Davis' daughter.

Sharon King Davis's daughter is the owner.....


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on June 19, 2013, 11:47:10 am
Then why bring it up?

We have a few legal minds here who probably do understand how the courts would view it.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: guido911 on June 19, 2013, 01:00:37 pm
We have a few legal minds here who probably do understand how the courts would view it.

Not sure why you would run with something so wildly speculative, presumptuous, and conclusory as what you posted. How about we let some facts flush out of this "story", assuming it happened as written and there is no other side, before publicly convicting people. Also, not sure how the courts will care about anything unless its jurisdiction has been invoked.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on June 20, 2013, 07:50:44 am
Not sure why you would run with something so wildly speculative, presumptuous, and conclusory as what you posted. How about we let some facts flush out of this "story", assuming it happened as written and there is no other side, before publicly convicting people. Also, not sure how the courts will care about anything unless its jurisdiction has been invoked.

Point well taken.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on June 21, 2013, 08:35:21 am
This Land follow up story today: http://thislandpress.com/roundups/tulsa-world-attorney-attempts-to-explain-email/


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 21, 2013, 10:59:49 am
Ziva and David...got a thing going on together!  Who wouda thought...?


Oh yeah....Ziva is an idiot.  And that Whirled lawyer...?  Well he certainly is trying to live up to the reputation of slimeballs everywhere with that kind of carp in the letter.  Warren really needs to hear about this!





Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: sgrizzle on October 29, 2013, 08:49:59 am
Noticed the one that started it all, Camille's Woodland Hills, is closed.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on October 30, 2013, 12:31:32 pm
Noticed the one that started it all, Camille's Woodland Hills, is closed.

Saw Groupons for the one by Kohls and the Jenks bridge too.  Only a matter of time now.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Ibanez on October 30, 2013, 12:38:29 pm
They own Rex's Chicken, correct?

I'm constantly amazed at how busy the location in Bixby is.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on October 30, 2013, 12:40:04 pm
They own Rex's Chicken, correct?

I'm constantly amazed at how busy the location in Bixby is.

I believe it is owned by another group.  They did the initial franchising package though, and ended up in some kind of litigation with the original Rex owners for stealing the brand I believe.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: sgrizzle on October 30, 2013, 12:49:17 pm
I believe it is owned by another group.  They did the initial franchising package though, and ended up in some kind of litigation with the original Rex owners for stealing the brand I believe.

http://newsok.com/tribe-buys-rights-to-rexs-chicken/article/3886362


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on October 30, 2013, 01:01:09 pm
David looks like he’s getting ready to pinch off a smoot in that picture with tribal leaders.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: DolfanBob on October 30, 2013, 03:58:51 pm
The man on the far right looks like Coach Shula. But he's into owning Steak Houses.  ;D


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: DolfanBob on July 14, 2014, 01:49:15 pm
Well I'm not surprised.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepage3/table-talk-rex-s-chicken-to-close-tuesday-seek-new/article_9b318600-f390-50b9-8dfe-b514fa09d71c.html


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: sgrizzle on July 14, 2014, 01:50:18 pm
What road construction?



Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: swake on July 14, 2014, 02:03:44 pm
What road construction?



Widening Memorial to six lanes? When did that finish? 2011?


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on July 14, 2014, 03:43:43 pm
“The location has been challenging for a while because of parking, access and ultimately road construction,” Rutkauskas said.

By my count there are about 8x the number of empty parking spots that particular restaurant needs. Especially around lunch and dinner when there is no one there.



Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Red Arrow on July 14, 2014, 05:43:35 pm
Widening Memorial to six lanes? When did that finish? 2011?

111th east of Memorial is being widened.  If that's their excuse, it's pretty weak.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: sgrizzle on July 14, 2014, 07:22:36 pm
I blame the fact they didn't have mashed potatoes, reviewers said the chicken tasted nothing like Rex's, and it's run by David Rucksack.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: AngieB on July 15, 2014, 07:14:06 am
LindaMar Drive-in has the closest thing you'll find to the original Rex's boneless chicken.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: DolfanBob on July 15, 2014, 07:38:31 am
I blame the fact they didn't have mashed potatoes, reviewers said the chicken tasted nothing like Rex's, and it's run by David Rucksack.

Well it's tough to take someone else idea and make it just as good. Ask Shotgun Jim.  ;D


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 15, 2014, 07:53:21 am
I was driving west on turnpike Sunday evening and there was a big wreck west of Stroud, leading to getting off the big road and taking a nice little tour along the Mother Road - Route 66.  Got back on at Chandler, but before I did, stopped at Ken's Pizza for a bite.  Nice.  The air conditioner had been broken all day, so the inside was brutal - probably about 105 to 110 degrees - warmer than outside that day (High 101 or so).  But the pizza was good.  It was not the same as the original Ken's - the sauce has changed, and the cheese was good, but also different from the old days.  (Value engineered...)

All in all, decent pizza and very nice nostalgic interlude along The Road!



All things considered - better overall experience than Shotgun Sam's with A/C.



Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on July 15, 2014, 08:04:50 am
Well it's tough to take someone else idea and make it just as good. Ask Shotgun Jim.  ;D

Even if you do, even if you make it better, it is nearly impossible to compete with ghosts.  People's memories of favorite places, foods and experiences are always more magical.  Over time, these favorites become mythical, and are remembered as far better than they actually were.  

Rule #1 is restaurant conceptualization:  Never attempt to resurrect ghosts.

New restaurant concepts have plenty of competition for the consumer to make tangible comparisons against, without setting themselves up to compete with myth.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: DolfanBob on July 15, 2014, 08:32:41 am
Even if you do, even if you make it better, it is nearly impossible to compete with ghosts.  People's memories of favorite places, foods and experiences are always more magical.  Over time, these favorites become mythical, and are remembered as far better than they actually were.  

Rule #1 is restaurant conceptualization:  Never attempt to resurrect ghosts.

New restaurant concepts have plenty of competition for the consumer to make tangible comparisons against, without setting themselves up to compete with myth.

He was banking on built in customers without having to advertise. Then the overwhelming response with his incompetence was almost his undoing.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: AquaMan on July 15, 2014, 09:37:45 am
LindaMar Drive-in has the closest thing you'll find to the original Rex's boneless chicken.

People in West Tulsa rave about LindaMar. I haven't tried the chicken yet but love their giant cheeseburgers. Reminds me of the Wheelburgers at the old Chuckwagon on 11th.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 15, 2014, 10:34:18 am
People in West Tulsa rave about LindaMar. I haven't tried the chicken yet but love their giant cheeseburgers. Reminds me of the Wheelburgers at the old Chuckwagon on 11th.

40+ years in the same spot. Last time I had food from there was in the mid 90's and it was still as good as the first time in 1971.

Have to agree with Gaspar about not competing with ghosts.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Hoss on July 15, 2014, 12:35:09 pm
40+ years in the same spot. Last time I had food from there was in the mid 90's and it was still as good as the first time in 1971.

Have to agree with Gaspar about not competing with ghosts.

They're opening a new spot in the old Ike's location on Admiral - sign is up and all.  No info on when though.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on July 15, 2014, 12:43:07 pm
They're opening a new spot in the old Ike's location on Admiral - sign is up and all.  No info on when though.

Linda-Mar?  Srsly?


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: sgrizzle on July 15, 2014, 12:59:47 pm
Is that the one that shows Andy Griffith, or is that the other one?


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Hoss on July 15, 2014, 01:39:52 pm
Linda-Mar?  Srsly?

srsly.  Banner in the window and everything.

https://www.facebook.com/LindaMarDriveIn/posts/791460000877767


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on July 15, 2014, 03:06:35 pm
Holy Irony Batman!  About five or six years ago, Chris Trail opened a second Ike’s at 51st & Union just a few doors to the west of Linda-Mar.  It lasted about six months or a year.  IIRC, David Sharp was a partner in that or they were trying to get David Sharp to partner up.  They were also talking to Beautiful Brands about franchising at that point.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: AquaMan on July 15, 2014, 03:07:32 pm
Is that the one that shows Andy Griffith, or is that the other one?

LindaMar shows Andy on a set in the corner. The "other one" might be Arnolds hamburgers just west of Union. Not a bad place, and much better parking, I just never cared much for Happy Days decor.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on July 15, 2014, 03:08:23 pm
Is that the one that shows Andy Griffith,

Yep, that’s the Linda-Mar.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: RecycleMichael on July 15, 2014, 07:11:47 pm
Many places sell strawberry shakes.

Linda Mar sells cherry shakes.

Try one and thank me later.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on July 15, 2014, 09:01:02 pm
Many places sell strawberry shakes.

Linda Mar sells cherry shakes.

Try one and thank me later.

I would never know to look at you that your culinary expertise is so profound.  Sounds like something I missed on their menu I should no longer miss.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: AngieB on July 16, 2014, 07:23:37 am
40+ years in the same spot. Last time I had food from there was in the mid 90's and it was still as good as the first time in 1971.

There are those old-timers who will tell you that the current owners "f*cked up the fries."


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Gaspar on July 16, 2014, 07:24:09 am
Many places sell strawberry shakes.

Linda Mar sells cherry shakes.

Try one and thank me later.

Just spent a week in Hood River, OR.  Rode through the orchards on horseback grabbing cherries off the trees and eating them. Never was much of a cherry fan, but after that experience I can't get enough. I'll have to try this.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: patric on April 06, 2019, 09:15:49 am
LindaMar shows Andy on a set in the corner. The "other one" might be Arnolds hamburgers just west of Union. Not a bad place, and much better parking, I just never cared much for Happy Days decor.

Went to Arnolds temporary site re-opening in the Crystal City strip mall on a whim.  Lots of car collectors brought their babies and it was a nice (if not hectic) atmosphere.
I loved the taste of the burgers but was overwhelmed by the amount of salt.   Maybe that is the appeal?  Ill give it one more shot in 18 months when they have their "permanent" location ready.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/entertainment/dining/table-talk-arnold-s-old-fashioned-hamburgers-reopens-in-crystal/article_aae3cbd1-ba12-575e-b845-4d873ad498a8.html


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Hoss on April 09, 2019, 07:16:09 am
Went to Arnolds temporary site re-opening in the Crystal City strip mall on a whim.  Lots of car collectors brought their babies and it was a nice (if not hectic) atmosphere.
I loved the taste of the burgers but was overwhelmed by the amount of salt.   Maybe that is the appeal?  Ill give it one more shot in 18 months when they have their "permanent" location ready.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/entertainment/dining/table-talk-arnold-s-old-fashioned-hamburgers-reopens-in-crystal/article_aae3cbd1-ba12-575e-b845-4d873ad498a8.html

This was the thing I did not like about Smashburger.  Way too salty for me.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: Conan71 on April 09, 2019, 10:57:40 am
This was the thing I did not like about Smashburger.  Way too salty for me.

They earned the name "Suckburger" for a reason.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on April 09, 2019, 08:03:14 pm
This was the thing I did not like about Smashburger.  Way too salty for me.

I ate at Smashburger once about 8 or 9 years ago and have never been back. Too many other good burger places.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: joiei on April 10, 2019, 09:20:21 am
This was the thing I did not like about Smashburger.  Way too salty for me.
And that is why I never went back.


Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 10, 2019, 05:14:36 pm
Went to Arnolds temporary site re-opening in the Crystal City strip mall on a whim.  Lots of car collectors brought their babies and it was a nice (if not hectic) atmosphere.
I loved the taste of the burgers but was overwhelmed by the amount of salt.   Maybe that is the appeal?  Ill give it one more shot in 18 months when they have their "permanent" location ready.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/entertainment/dining/table-talk-arnold-s-old-fashioned-hamburgers-reopens-in-crystal/article_aae3cbd1-ba12-575e-b845-4d873ad498a8.html


We drove by and they were closed...Sunday, I think it was.  I never understood the attraction - they just aren't that good.  And the last time we went - which will always be the last time - both burgers were WAY too pink inside!  Like they had only drifted 'close' to the fire!  They tried to "fix" it by putting in the microwave for a while (at least that was the flavor profile the second time around) and giving us a $3 off coupon for our next visit.   Lol...

So many better places around.  And Lot-A-Burger has the perfect "too much salt" ratio down pat.!!  Much better than Arnold's.

But I guess there is always a market for just about any old kind of slop - El Charro up in Claremore has a huge fan base in that town!!   Some of the worst Tex-Mex on the planet.!!   They even have a couple of Listeria Palace Chinese places there that are better...!



Title: Re: "Camille's empire copes with setbacks" and TW gets spanked
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 10, 2019, 05:19:36 pm
I ate at Smashburger once about 8 or 9 years ago and have never been back. Too many other good burger places.


Just like Five Guys... not great!  Edible, but WAY to expensive!

Last time I went to Five Guys was in Moore and some lady drove through the front window aiming right at us!   Don't know what she had against all those potatoes...?