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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => Local & State Politics => Topic started by: Hoss on February 08, 2013, 07:26:40 pm



Title: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Hoss on February 08, 2013, 07:26:40 pm
..that this is a case of the police bullying a popular entrepreneur.

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/records-detail-confrentation-between-tpd--councilor


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: RecycleMichael on February 08, 2013, 09:11:17 pm
Ten cops come in during the busy dinner hour to write tickets for not having stamps on the pinball, Pacman and skeeball games?

Seems like overkill. I would be upset as well. Wouldn't a more reasonable approach be to have two or three officers swing by during a slow time? It is not like they can't find the owner.

The Tulsa Police Department has been rocked by scandal after scandal and now they go and try and intimidate a small businessman?

For them to claim that Blake tried to intimidate them seems almost laughable.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Breadburner on February 08, 2013, 09:12:43 pm
Trust me....Its not.... I was wondering when this would surface.....


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: custosnox on February 08, 2013, 09:37:21 pm
Trust me....Its not.... I was wondering when this would surface.....
It's not a case of the police bullying an entrepreneur?  I find something fishy about all of this when you have multiple officers making an appearance for something as simple as game licenses.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: JoeMommaBlake on February 08, 2013, 09:51:53 pm
It is. I never objected to the tickets (even though most of them have proven to be invalid). I asked them to write them to me and not my staff. They wouldn't.

I never threatened them. I certainly never tried to intimidate them. We have the whole thing recorded.

I furnished that recording to KJRH. They chose to represent the story very differently, despite having the entire recording.

I told the police that I felt like it was an unnecessary show of force to park five police cars out front of our businesses and enter the restaurants (full of families, mind you) with nine officers (two ABLE) in intimidating fashion in the peak of Thursday night dinner to inspect my arcade game licenses. It was wasteful and over the top. There was no threat to them. They didn't need that manpower at Joe Momma's or El Guapos. The stand-alone bars weren't busy and also didn't need the numbers they brought or the intimidating posture. There was no judgment used. It was aggressive and embarrassing.

They could have come by in the afternoon with far fewer officers to check compliance.
They could have sent two officers in and had the others wait outside to be called on in case there was trouble.
They could have written tickets at one establishment with common ownership and moved on.

Instead, this raid was mysteriously conducted at the one time of the week when I have a very public appointment (6:00 Thursday night City Council Meetings). It was done in an embarrassing way, so as to confuse and frighten my guests. If nothing else, the large show of force caused conjecture about my businesses (and Elliot's) and the kind of activity we conduct.

One might never guess, for example, that nine officers would be necessary for a compliance check. Guests might (and did) assume that they were in danger or that serious crimes were being committed.

The Brady District was not checked. Cherry St. wasn't checked. 18th and Boston wasn't checked. Brookside wasn't checked.
One might find it curious that The Blue Dome District was, but that none of the other local districts were checked.

Further, the way this was represented by the police is downright offensive. I've never abused my authority as a Councilor and to insinuate that I would do it here (to get out of buying $30 video game licenses?) is ridiculous.

I was attempting to protect my staff that night by asking that the tickets be written to me and I was attempting to communicate to the Sgt. that I felt like this show was embarrassing and unnecessary. In light of the very stressful month of crime that we've had in Tulsa, the citizens don't want to see Gilcrease Division (north Tulsa) beat officers camped out in The Blue Dome District for 3 hours writing tickets to Elliot Nelson and me for not having the right stickers on our arcade games. They want to see intentional patrol of high crime areas and efficient use of manpower. People already feel like the police aren't responsive enough to real and threatening needs. This dog and pony show sure doesn't help.

This whole thing was stupid. I called them out on it. They didn't like it. They leaked the story to Casey Roebuck. KJRH knew there was no real story here, so they painted this in a terrible way to make a headline and get a scoop. I'm sure the on air talent at KJRH had nothing to do with it, especially the one married to a TPD chief. The whole thing stinks. It is what you think it is - the worst kind of "journalism".

Hopefully, some good can come out of this. Sadly, today, it feels like this story is going to be told in the way the scandal loving public like the most....and our TPD is going to keep conducting foolish raids of local restaurants in the most embarrassing way possible. They have no clue how bad this makes them look to a very skeptical citizenry.

The crazy thing is that I actually had a pretty productive conversation with the Sgt that night and had already arranged a meeting with Elliot Nelson and Chief Jordan to discuss how we conduct compliance checks more efficiently and in a more business friendly way in the future. That's not juicy though. Better to make it look like I had a fight with TPD (which didn't happen) and threatened them (which didn't happen) and tried to use my position to get out of something (which definitely didn't happen).

Thanks.



Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Red Arrow on February 08, 2013, 10:49:09 pm
It is. I never objected to the tickets (even though most of them have proven to be invalid). I asked them to write them to me and not my staff. They wouldn't.

I never threatened them. I certainly never tried to intimidate them. We have the whole thing recorded.

I furnished that recording to KJRH. They chose to represent the story very differently, despite having the entire recording.

I told the police that I felt like it was an unnecessary show of force to park five police cars out front of our businesses and enter the restaurants (full of families, mind you) with nine officers (two ABLE) in intimidating fashion in the peak of Thursday night dinner to inspect my arcade game licenses. It was wasteful and over the top. There was no threat to them. They didn't need that manpower at Joe Momma's or El Guapos. The stand-alone bars weren't busy and also didn't need the numbers they brought or the intimidating posture. There was no judgment used. It was aggressive and embarrassing.

They could have come by in the afternoon with far fewer officers to check compliance.
They could have sent two officers in and had the others wait outside to be called on in case there was trouble.
They could have written tickets at one establishment with common ownership and moved on.

Instead, this raid was mysteriously conducted at the one time of the week when I have a very public appointment (6:00 Thursday night City Council Meetings). It was done in an embarrassing way, so as to confuse and frighten my guests. If nothing else, the large show of force caused conjecture about my businesses (and Elliot's) and the kind of activity we conduct.

One might never guess, for example, that nine officers would be necessary for a compliance check. Guests might (and did) assume that they were in danger or that serious crimes were being committed.

The Brady District was not checked. Cherry St. wasn't checked. 18th and Boston wasn't checked. Brookside wasn't checked.
One might find it curious that The Blue Dome District was, but that none of the other local districts were checked.

Further, the way this was represented by the police is downright offensive. I've never abused my authority as a Councilor and to insinuate that I would do it here (to get out of buying $30 video game licenses?) is ridiculous.

I was attempting to protect my staff that night by asking that the tickets be written to me and I was attempting to communicate to the Sgt. that I felt like this show was embarrassing and unnecessary. In light of the very stressful month of crime that we've had in Tulsa, the citizens don't want to see Gilcrease Division (north Tulsa) beat officers camped out in The Blue Dome District for 3 hours writing tickets to Elliot Nelson and me for not having the right stickers on our arcade games. They want to see intentional patrol of high crime areas and efficient use of manpower. People already feel like the police aren't responsive enough to real and threatening needs. This dog and pony show sure doesn't help.

This whole thing was stupid. I called them out on it. They didn't like it. They leaked the story to Casey Roebuck. KJRH knew there was no real story here, so they painted this in a terrible way to make a headline and get a scoop. I'm sure the on air talent at KJRH had nothing to do with it, especially the one married to a TPD chief. The whole thing stinks. It is what you think it is - the worst kind of "journalism".

Hopefully, some good can come out of this. Sadly, today, it feels like this story is going to be told in the way the scandal loving public like the most....and our TPD is going to keep conducting foolish raids of local restaurants in the most embarrassing way possible. They have no clue how bad this makes them look to a very skeptical citizenry.

The crazy thing is that I actually had a pretty productive conversation with the Sgt that night and had already arranged a meeting with Elliot Nelson and Chief Jordan to discuss how we conduct compliance checks more efficiently and in a more business friendly way in the future. That's not juicy though. Better to make it look like I had a fight with TPD (which didn't happen) and threatened them (which didn't happen) and tried to use my position to get out of something (which definitely didn't happen).

Thanks.




You have my sympathy but welcome to the big city.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: patric on February 08, 2013, 11:34:38 pm
Ten cops come in during the busy dinner hour to write tickets for not having stamps on the pinball, Pacman and skeeball games?
Seems like overkill. I would be upset as well. Wouldn't a more reasonable approach be to have two or three officers swing by during a slow time? It is not like they can't find the owner.
The Tulsa Police Department has been rocked by scandal after scandal and now they go and try and intimidate a small businessman?

Blake may have made the mistake of pitching the story to a reporter more concerned with protecting ride-along privileges for high-profile busts, than being a detached journalist.  That's why you should cast the net wider and include print media and YouTube.

EDITED TO ADD:  I stand corrected, it wasnt Blake who initially contacted the media.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: guido911 on February 09, 2013, 12:18:29 am
It is. I never objected to the tickets (even though most of them have proven to be invalid). I asked them to write them to me and not my staff. They wouldn't.

I never threatened them. I certainly never tried to intimidate them. We have the whole thing recorded.

I furnished that recording to KJRH. They chose to represent the story very differently, despite having the entire recording.

I told the police that I felt like it was an unnecessary show of force to park five police cars out front of our businesses and enter the restaurants (full of families, mind you) with nine officers (two ABLE) in intimidating fashion in the peak of Thursday night dinner to inspect my arcade game licenses. It was wasteful and over the top. There was no threat to them. They didn't need that manpower at Joe Momma's or El Guapos. The stand-alone bars weren't busy and also didn't need the numbers they brought or the intimidating posture. There was no judgment used. It was aggressive and embarrassing.

They could have come by in the afternoon with far fewer officers to check compliance.
They could have sent two officers in and had the others wait outside to be called on in case there was trouble.
They could have written tickets at one establishment with common ownership and moved on.

Instead, this raid was mysteriously conducted at the one time of the week when I have a very public appointment (6:00 Thursday night City Council Meetings). It was done in an embarrassing way, so as to confuse and frighten my guests. If nothing else, the large show of force caused conjecture about my businesses (and Elliot's) and the kind of activity we conduct.

One might never guess, for example, that nine officers would be necessary for a compliance check. Guests might (and did) assume that they were in danger or that serious crimes were being committed.

The Brady District was not checked. Cherry St. wasn't checked. 18th and Boston wasn't checked. Brookside wasn't checked.
One might find it curious that The Blue Dome District was, but that none of the other local districts were checked.

Further, the way this was represented by the police is downright offensive. I've never abused my authority as a Councilor and to insinuate that I would do it here (to get out of buying $30 video game licenses?) is ridiculous.

I was attempting to protect my staff that night by asking that the tickets be written to me and I was attempting to communicate to the Sgt. that I felt like this show was embarrassing and unnecessary. In light of the very stressful month of crime that we've had in Tulsa, the citizens don't want to see Gilcrease Division (north Tulsa) beat officers camped out in The Blue Dome District for 3 hours writing tickets to Elliot Nelson and me for not having the right stickers on our arcade games. They want to see intentional patrol of high crime areas and efficient use of manpower. People already feel like the police aren't responsive enough to real and threatening needs. This dog and pony show sure doesn't help.

This whole thing was stupid. I called them out on it. They didn't like it. They leaked the story to Casey Roebuck. KJRH knew there was no real story here, so they painted this in a terrible way to make a headline and get a scoop. I'm sure the on air talent at KJRH had nothing to do with it, especially the one married to a TPD chief. The whole thing stinks. It is what you think it is - the worst kind of "journalism".

Hopefully, some good can come out of this. Sadly, today, it feels like this story is going to be told in the way the scandal loving public like the most....and our TPD is going to keep conducting foolish raids of local restaurants in the most embarrassing way possible. They have no clue how bad this makes them look to a very skeptical citizenry.

The crazy thing is that I actually had a pretty productive conversation with the Sgt that night and had already arranged a meeting with Elliot Nelson and Chief Jordan to discuss how we conduct compliance checks more efficiently and in a more business friendly way in the future. That's not juicy though. Better to make it look like I had a fight with TPD (which didn't happen) and threatened them (which didn't happen) and tried to use my position to get out of something (which definitely didn't happen).

Thanks.



I mean, I want to believe you. But I sure could use an incinerator to help the process.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: TheArtist on February 09, 2013, 08:33:05 am
Definitely wasteful overkill and "business and public" unfriendly.  And the actions were even more egregious if what Jordan said was true that... "the compliance checks at the city councilor's businesses were no different than those conducted at more than 30 other Tulsa establishments in recent months."  which means this wasn't the only example of waste, overkill, and inappropriateness.  I agree that all city ordinances and such should be enforced, but why he would admit that he does so, so often, in such a wasteful and disturbing manner I do not know.  


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 09, 2013, 09:43:34 am
Ten officers, 30 "raids" at 1 hour each = 300 man hours.  Assume each venue has 5 machines on average and all were out of compliance (30*5*30) the city raised $450 in revenue. 

Assume each officer costs the city $100,000 a year (salary, tax, workers comp, health insurance, training, equipment... $100k is conservative) and works a full 2000 hours (probably inflated hours).  The cost is $50 per officer per hour, at the lowest.  So the cost of a one hour raid with 10 officers would be $5000.  The cost of 30 such raids would be $150000.

$150,000 spent. $450 in video machine tax stamps collected.

Enforcement is not always about economics.  Sometimes it is about safety.  Sometimes public welfare.  Sometimes it is to send a message that there is a police presence. 

Hard to figure out the purpose of this.

Can I have $150000 in city funds?  For $150k I can hire a full time "City of Tulsa video game tax stamp verification specialist" and pay him $40k, pocket $40k for myself, and donate $70k to the Blake Ewing "please keep running even though the job sucks" fund.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Conan71 on February 09, 2013, 10:11:02 am
Safe to assume none of Ewing's enterprises will be advertising on KJRH any time soon?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: patric on February 09, 2013, 11:56:50 am
I agree that all city ordinances and such should be enforced, but why he would admit that he does so, so often, in such a wasteful and disturbing manner I do not know.  

Remember who deployed the helicopter and scores of uniforms for non-violent protesters "trespassing" in a park after 11. 
Cities that did much less were sued for much more.  http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/09/26/161839245/uc-oks-1-million-settlement-in-pepper-spray-suit

Years ago, the "Street Crimes" (vice squad) would repeatedly do "compliance checks" on the same bars, almost every night near TU, until someone finally did some re-assignments.  A few TNF members saw that firsthand, if I recall.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: BKDotCom on February 09, 2013, 12:03:16 pm
Ten officers, 30 "raids" at 1 hour each = 300 man hours.  Assume each venue has 5 machines on average and all were out of compliance (30*5*30) the city raised $450 in revenue.  

Assume each officer costs the city $100,000 a year (salary, tax, workers comp, health insurance, training, equipment... $100k is conservative) and works a full 2000 hours (probably inflated hours).  The cost is $50 per officer per hour, at the lowest.  So the cost of a one hour raid with 10 officers would be $5000.  The cost of 30 such raids would be $150000.

$150,000 spent. $450 in video machine tax stamps collected.

Enforcement is not always about economics.  Sometimes it is about safety.  Sometimes public welfare.  Sometimes it is to send a message that there is a police presence.  

Hard to figure out the purpose of this.

Can I have $150000 in city funds?  For $150k I can hire a full time "City of Tulsa video game tax stamp verification specialist" and pay him $40k, pocket $40k for myself, and donate $70k to the Blake Ewing "please keep running even though the job sucks" fund.

+1

And why are they referring to this as a "raid"?

Raid - noun - a sudden assault or attack, as upon something to be seized or suppressed: a police raid on a gambling ring.

Does the health department send out 9 food-safety inspectors on a health inspection raid?
Does the fire department send out 9 fire-fighters on fire-code inspection raids?

Is Blake running some sort of shady pinball speakeasy?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Teatownclown on February 09, 2013, 01:01:25 pm
I love more proof for what I already had suspected about this guy....


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: patric on February 09, 2013, 01:45:54 pm
+1

And why are they referring to this as a "raid"?

Raid - noun - a sudden assault or attack, as upon something to be seized or suppressed: a police raid on a gambling ring.

Does the health department send out 9 food-safety inspectors on a health inspection raid?
Does the fire department send out 9 fire-fighters on fire-code inspection raids?

Is Blake running some sort of shady pinball speakeasy?

Well, if the insurance commissioner now needs SWAT-equipped agents to inspect a business's paperwork...


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 09, 2013, 08:45:27 pm
cannon_fodder -
30 x 30 x 5 is closer to $4,500.  Same point you made, though - ridiculous to "trade" $150,000 for $4,500. 

This is exactly the kind of thing that eventually works it's way to national news and makes Oklahoma look like just the place to transfer a sophisticated, urban workforce to. 

This whole thing is just so far beyond ridiculous, I am virtually speechless!  And most of you know how bizarre THAT is!!  I don't even know where to begin....




Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: carltonplace on February 11, 2013, 10:19:15 am
Regardless of what Blake did or didn't say, the real abuse of power here is from the TPD and the ABLE officers.

I've experienced this myself when the TPD raided a bar I was tending, turned on all of the lights, turned off the music and chased out all of the patrons to look at the bar's liquor license and my personal liquor license and food handler's permit. Total cost of these documents was less than $1,000...all were current but it took six officers to do it. I was definitely intimidated.

Who are you going to believe here: the power hungry able commissioner or the Tulsa advocate that cares about this city enough to work a thankless "part time" (I bet it takes more than 40 hours a week to be a counsilor) side job to try to help us improve?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Conan71 on February 11, 2013, 10:37:14 am
Regardless of what Blake did or didn't say, the real abuse of power here is from the TPD and the ABLE officers.

I've experienced this myself when the TPD raided a bar I was tending, turned on all of the lights, turned off the music and chased out all of the patrons to look at the bar's liquor license and my personal liquor license and food handler's permit. Total cost of these documents was less than $1,000...all were current but it took six officers to do it. I was definitely intimidated.

Who are you going to believe here: the power hungry able commissioner or the Tulsa advocate that cares about this city enough to work a thankless "part time" (I bet it takes more than 40 hours a week to be a counsilor) side job to try to help us improve?

And how much revenue did they cost you that night when they did the raid and found everything legal and in place?  They should be restricted from doing routine license checks during peak business hours unless they've got evidence a club's license has expired or there's evidence they are serving under-age patrons.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: carltonplace on February 11, 2013, 10:45:35 am
And how much revenue did they cost you that night when they did the raid and found everything legal and in place? 

We were pretty much done after they left, everyone went elsewhere. No more city sales tax collected or remitted.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: rdj on February 11, 2013, 11:28:22 am
I love more proof for what I already had suspected about this guy....

Which is?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: patric on February 11, 2013, 01:03:24 pm
They should be restricted from doing routine license checks during peak business hours unless they've got evidence a club's license has expired or there's evidence they are serving under-age patrons.

Agreed, but that would make sense if checking permits was the real reason for the raid.
Some I have witnessed involved police telling customers to have their drivers licenses out and ready.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: carltonplace on February 11, 2013, 01:17:53 pm
Someone needs to tell the TPD and ABLE that this is 2013 and that they are not GMEN. 


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Conan71 on February 11, 2013, 01:19:40 pm
Someone needs to tell the TPD and ABLE that this is 2013 and that they are not GMEN jack-booted government thugs. 


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: nathanm on February 11, 2013, 02:44:32 pm
Someone needs to tell the TPD and ABLE that this is 2013 and that they are not GMEN. 

Someone needs to reign in TPD in general. Clearly that's not something Councilor Ewing can help do now without loud whinging by the department about him using his position to get back at them. Never mind scandal after scandal that has come out about them over the past couple of years.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Gaspar on February 11, 2013, 02:50:47 pm
If it quacks like a duck, and it walks like a duck. . .

The degree of force involved is disproportionate, and according to the documents provided by the department, the reasoning for that was stated as the need to control "intoxicated" patrons.  This, along with the time of day they chose indicates that their primary purpose in this sweep was not to spend a bunch of taxpayer money writing up a handfull of piddly citations, but rather through that action, to alter the environment and capitalize on secondary situations.

Cops aren't stupid.  When 10 cops invade a busy nightclub or restaurant, an otherwise peaceful environment can change drastically.  People naturally become nervous for many reasons.  Is their a criminal on the loose?  Did someone get shot in the parking lot?  Was their a robbery?  That level of force naturally develops volatility among a crowd of otherwise peaceful individuals.  Police know this, they are trained on how to use "presence" to alter situations.

Sure, there may be 100 law abiding citizens who are only there to have a beer after work, but within that group their will also be a handfull who have had 10 beers, or just smoked a joint, or have a warrant for their arrest for not paying their parking tickets, or owe child support.  While 10 officers is a HUGE waste of manpower to enforce the Space Invaders tax, it is not an outrageous number to manage multiple foot chases.  The evening atmosphere at any bar becomes an opportunity to catch big fish while you pretend to troll for the small fry.

In my opinion, Blake and the other downtown establishments were part of a raid, that may or may not have produced the result that was hoped for.  It seems they were able to engage in a foot pursuit at 5th and Harvard.  I hope it was worth it, because as it stands, this seems like colossal waste of resources!



Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Teatownclown on February 11, 2013, 02:59:28 pm
Someone needs to tell the TPD and ABLE that this is 2013 and that they are not GMEN. 

Uh, they ARE GMEN. fyi

I am amused by those who support a "friend," er counselor, over right.

And the conspiracy theories....


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Townsend on February 11, 2013, 03:04:32 pm
Uh, they ARE GMEN. fyi

They're all FBI agents?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Conan71 on February 11, 2013, 03:07:18 pm
They're all FBI agents?

Shhhh!  He's on a roll!


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Townsend on February 11, 2013, 03:10:45 pm
Shhhh!  He's on a roll!

Jesus, you've got 23,270 freaking posts?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Conan71 on February 11, 2013, 03:20:28 pm
Jesus, you've got 23,270 freaking posts?

23,271 to be exact


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Teatownclown on February 11, 2013, 03:21:18 pm
Jesus, you've got 23,270 freaking posts?

Christ Conan, you've never been thrown off and had to get a whole new identity?

GMEN=GOVERNMENT MEN


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: dbacks fan on February 11, 2013, 06:21:59 pm
Shhhh!  He's on a roll troll!

FIFY


Title: Re: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: custosnox on February 11, 2013, 06:27:22 pm
And the channel 8 report was so stupidly one sided on the reporting that I don't knew why they try to pass it off as journalism. This is turning into nothing more than a smear campaign against Blake, regardless if what actually occurred.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2


Title: Re: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 11, 2013, 07:30:44 pm
And the channel 8 report was so stupidly one sided on the reporting that I don't knew why they try to pass it off as journalism. This is turning into nothing more than a smear campaign against Blake, regardless if what actually occurred.

There's only so many ways you can spruce up a PIO handout and make it look like fresh news.


Title: Re: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: BKDotCom on February 11, 2013, 08:02:48 pm
And the channel 8 report was so stupidly one sided on the reporting that I don't knew why they try to pass it off as journalism. This is turning into nothing more than a smear campaign against Blake, regardless if what actually occurred.

KTUL, we insinuate, you decide.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: DTowner on February 12, 2013, 09:58:34 am
There are so many things wrong with this it is hard to know where to begin.  But for starters, given the amount of money the city spends to train and equip police officers, why is the city using them to check stickers on the side of Frogger and Pac-Man?  Is TPD training really so extensive that every officer is well versed in the nuances of arcade game licensure (apparently not, according to Blake, since he believes most if not all of the citations are in error)?  If they are, perhaps that training money would have been better spent fighting the corruption problems that have plagued TPD over the past few years or in combating gangs that are a source for so much of our city's violent crime.

Tulsa's murders are way up so far in 2013, yet NINE TPD officers have time to "raid" a pizza parlor and check a city license that does not involve public safety in any remote way.  If the goal was to "stir up" some crirminals in the crowd, sending a platoon of cops to do food inspections at the Promenade Mall food court would likely have more of the desired effect.  Every day we read of stories of the past nights burglaries and home invasions.  Pawn shops are the integral cog in the property crime wheel – would the time of nine cops be better spent conducting "inspections" of the many pawn shops that traffic in stolen goods?  Wouldn't that be a good use of TPD resources that would actually help public safety?  Why are ABLE agents also involved in checking up on arcade games licenses?  Is Ms Pac-Man dispensing Jell-O shots out of the change return?  Are there really no bars/liquor stores out there known for selling to minors on which this use of agents' time would be better spent?

The local news stations are beholden to their TPD sources for tips and cannot be trusted to ask the obvious and glaring questions.  The Tulsa World gave good coverage to the TPD scandals.  Let's hope they start asking the needed questions about this matter.



Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: patric on February 12, 2013, 12:13:41 pm

The degree of force involved is disproportionate, and according to the documents provided by the department, the reasoning for that was stated as the need to control "intoxicated" patrons.  This, along with the time of day they chose indicates that their primary purpose in this sweep was not to spend a bunch of taxpayer money writing up a handfull of piddly citations, but rather through that action, to alter the environment and capitalize on secondary situations.

Cops aren't stupid.  When 10 cops invade a busy nightclub or restaurant, an otherwise peaceful environment can change drastically.  People naturally become nervous for many reasons.  Is their a criminal on the loose?  Did someone get shot in the parking lot?  Was their a robbery?  That level of force naturally develops volatility among a crowd of otherwise peaceful individuals.  Police know this, they are trained on how to use "presence" to alter situations.

Sure, there may be 100 law abiding citizens who are only there to have a beer after work, but within that group their will also be a handfull who have had 10 beers, or just smoked a joint, or have a warrant for their arrest for not paying their parking tickets, or owe child support.  While 10 officers is a HUGE waste of manpower to enforce the Space Invaders tax, it is not an outrageous number to manage multiple foot chases.  The evening atmosphere at any bar becomes an opportunity to catch big fish while you pretend to troll for the small fry.

In my opinion, Blake and the other downtown establishments were part of a raid, that may or may not have produced the result that was hoped for.  It seems they were able to engage in a foot pursuit at 5th and Harvard.  I hope it was worth it, because as it stands, this seems like colossal waste of resources!

The officers broke off their "directed patrol" to join in on a car chase
http://www.tulsaworld.com/specialprojects/news/crimewatch/article.aspx?subjectid=450&articleid=20130201_450_0_Office297488
which is more exciting and looks better on an activity report.

...but in any case, it implies that we have either an excess of officers needing assignments, or poor management of those resources.
Funding another police academy would not make any sense at this point, unless there is a dramatic shift in policy and/or leadership.

When Street Crimes did nightly license checks, they created circumstances where legitimate business were made to suffer or close.  
Needless to say, Google, Verizon, etc. are not going to convince their Silicone Valley folks to move here and put up with that backwoods nonsense.

Some of the "secondary situations" Gaspar touched on involved officers asking grey-haired customers for their DL to "prove you are 21."


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 12, 2013, 12:23:31 pm
Who is the boss for the Chief of Police??  That is where the culture and tone is set.  Could it be the mayor??  Or is the police department just running loose with no direction?




Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Hoss on February 12, 2013, 12:25:57 pm
Who is the boss for the Chief of Police??  That is where the culture and tone is set.  Could it be the mayor??  Or is the police department just running loose with no direction?




If it's the mayor you might want to ask Chuck if his cell phone has caught fire recently.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: patric on February 12, 2013, 12:59:51 pm
Who is the boss for the Chief of Police??  That is where the culture and tone is set.  Could it be the mayor??  Or is the police department just running loose with no direction?

The Mayor is not allowed to fire bad officers:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=13&articleid=011229_Ne_a21rulin

even for something like this:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=13&articleid=010324_Ne_a1focus


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: JCnOwasso on February 12, 2013, 01:09:13 pm
Compliance checks in the evening hours makes little to no sense.  If you are doing it at that hour, you are asking for problems.  Violations will be violations, even at 2:30 in the afternoon.  Furthermore, when was the last time this type of compliance check happened at any group of locations in Tulsa? 

It appears that Blake and Elliot ticked off ABLE and/or TPD.  Been ruffling a few feathers?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Conan71 on February 12, 2013, 01:56:42 pm
The Mayor is not allowed to fire bad officers:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=13&articleid=011229_Ne_a21rulin

The offense:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=13&articleid=010324_Ne_a1focus

As I recall, didn't Mayor Taylor make chief of police an at-will rather than civil service-protected?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: nathanm on February 12, 2013, 03:35:10 pm
Compliance checks in the evening hours makes little to no sense.

I don't think it's a bad time. As good as any, anyway. What's the point if they know that you're not coming between 4 and 9PM? The problem is that it was decided that ten freakin' officers had to be there! I think two would have been sufficient and four would have been good evidence of an abundance of caution bordering on a waste of scarce resources.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Conan71 on February 12, 2013, 04:15:14 pm
I don't think it's a bad time. As good as any, anyway. What's the point if they know that you're not coming between 4 and 9PM? The problem is that it was decided that ten freakin' officers had to be there! I think two would have been sufficient and four would have been good evidence of an abundance of caution bordering on a waste of scarce resources.

It's a bad time if it completely disrupts your evening business when all they are supposedly checking is supposed to be game and/or bar licenses.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: nathanm on February 12, 2013, 05:27:10 pm
It's a bad time if it completely disrupts your evening business when all they are supposedly checking is supposed to be game and/or bar licenses.

I doubt it would be unreasonably disruptive if only a couple of officers were sent in.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 12, 2013, 07:28:50 pm
It appears that Blake and Elliot ticked off ABLE and/or TPD.  Been ruffling a few feathers?

Ask former councilor Joe Williams what happens when you dont toe the FOP line
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=13&articleid=010718_Ne_a1repor


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: TheArtist on February 12, 2013, 07:39:22 pm
  A couple of officers is all that is needed for such checks.  One would hope that even then, if possible, they would be considerate of the business and not come in at the busiest/most disruptive time.  The police are there to serve and check, not disrupt.

The other day a young lady and gentleman came into our shop to check if we had our sales tax permit and had it posted in a prominent space.  This imho would be a bigger deal than the video game stickers.  It would have flustered me and disturbed my customers if half a dozen police officers would have come in to do this.  As it was they looked like everyone else and were very friendly and did their job.  I had not had it posted at our new business, but looked through my files and found the permit.  Had there been a lot of police there I might have felt very nervous and may not have found the permit lol.  I didn't know the permit was supposed to be posted and asked the couple how I was supposed to know that.  The guy then pointed at the sheet I was holding and it clearly said "post in a prominent place" lol.  I was like "Oh" ::)   ;D  

  Anyway, why it would take that many police officers going in like that to check on what they were checking,,, well it's wasteful, and inconsiderate.        


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: DTowner on February 13, 2013, 09:27:16 am
 A couple of officers is all that is needed for such checks.  One would hope that even then, if possible, they would be considerate of the business and not come in at the busiest/most disruptive time.  The police are there to serve and check, not disrupt.

The other day a young lady and gentleman came into our shop to check if we had our sales tax permit and had it posted in a prominent space.  This imho would be a bigger deal than the video game stickers.  It would have flustered me and disturbed my customers if half a dozen police officers would have come in to do this.  As it was they looked like everyone else and were very friendly and did their job.  I had not had it posted at our new business, but looked through my files and found the permit.  Had there been a lot of police there I might have felt very nervous and may not have found the permit lol.  I didn't know the permit was supposed to be posted and asked the couple how I was supposed to know that.  The guy then pointed at the sheet I was holding and it clearly said "post in a prominent place" lol.  I was like "Oh" ::)   ;D  

  Anyway, why it would take that many police officers going in like that to check on what they were checking,,, well it's wasteful, and inconsiderate.        


I guess I don't understand why the city needs any police officers to check arcade game licenses.  That is not a good use of police officer's time and resources.  Let a regular city employee check the arcade license, much like the sales tax notice.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Townsend on February 13, 2013, 09:59:36 am
I doubt it would be unreasonably disruptive if only a couple of officers were sent in.

Fully dressed out with a gunbelt?  It's very disruptive.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: TheArtist on February 13, 2013, 10:48:07 am

I guess I don't understand why the city needs any police officers to check arcade game licenses.  That is not a good use of police officer's time and resources.  Let a regular city employee check the arcade license, much like the sales tax notice.


I agree.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: JCnOwasso on February 13, 2013, 10:53:46 am
If I am a father with my family in Back alley, Joe Momma's or el Guapo and I see a caravan of uniformed officers walking through the door.  The first thing I do is check and see if they are there for dinner, if they are, AWESOME, my kid would love it.  However, if they appear to be there on business, I am going to be nervous.  Not because of anything I have done, but because I expect the place to be safe and if 10 people walk in on business you are going to think the absolute worst.  And if I found out they are just there to write some citations on video games, I would be pretty ticked as a tax payer.

I disagree that anytime should be reasonable for compliance check.  A liquor license, food handlers permit, etc are all things that you should have regardless of time of day.  Compliance checks should be done at times to minimize the impact on the place being reviewed.  Additionally, if a place doesn't have the needed documentation, I would much rather be shut down before I have my evening rush, not during.  

The actions of the police department and ABLE are unprofessional.  You should work WITH businesses, not against them.  With the show of force for this action, you have shown that you are against them and against the successful operation of their business.  You are really going to get people interested in relocating downtown if this is what they can expect.    


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: patric on February 13, 2013, 11:37:39 pm

I guess I don't understand why the city needs any police officers to check arcade game licenses.  That is not a good use of police officer's time and resources.  Let a regular city employee check the arcade license, much like the sales tax notice.

Well, then you'd have to have regular 9-5 city workers responsible for Enforcement of Codes,
sort of a, oh, what would you call it...


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: carltonplace on February 14, 2013, 08:37:23 am
Well, then you'd have to have regular 9-5 city workers responsible for Enforcement of Codes,
sort of a, oh, what would you call it...

I'm drawing a blank? Crossing Guard?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Red Arrow on February 14, 2013, 08:50:31 am
Well, then you'd have to have regular 9-5 city workers responsible for Enforcement of Codes,
sort of a, oh, what would you call it...

Department of Revenue / Revenooers


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: dbacks fan on February 14, 2013, 01:54:09 pm
Well, then you'd have to have regular 9-5 city workers responsible for Enforcement of Codes,
sort of a, oh, what would you call it...

You mean a department of a city that has advanced past prohibition jackbooted thuggery? Not sure what you would call it. Code something or other sounds familiar.......


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Gaspar on February 14, 2013, 02:29:42 pm
You mean a department of a city that has advanced past prohibition jackbooted thuggery? Not sure what you would call it. Code something or other sounds familiar.......

Business Licensing Services Harassment & Intimidation Task-force

B.L.S.H.I.T. for short.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: dbacks fan on February 14, 2013, 02:31:12 pm
Business Licensing Services Harassment & Intimidation Task-force

B.L.S.H.I.T. for short.

Perfect! We have a winner!!!!


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 14, 2013, 07:10:01 pm
Well, then you'd have to have regular 9-5 city workers responsible for Enforcement of Codes,
sort of a, oh, what would you call it...

You're being a bit naive if you really think what they were doing really had anything to do with license compliance.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: dbacks fan on February 14, 2013, 09:26:09 pm
You're being a bit naive if you really think what they were doing really had anything to do with license compliance.

Oh, that's right, they were planning to have tea and crumpets.    ::)


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: BKDotCom on February 17, 2013, 12:08:43 am
Tulsa World is now on top of things

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20130216_296_0_usiycu982619


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: dbacks fan on February 17, 2013, 06:14:46 am
I would ask "Why are these things going on?" but growing up in Oklahoma, this was SOP. I am reminded of when R&M Music owned most of all of the arcade games in Tulsa, as well as they owned several bars. They owned the bar, name, fixtures, and had a understanding with distributors for a bar that is now part of Pryor Machine on north Sheridan. It's sad that there is this control issue with establishments, that the state wants to rule what they can do, and that there is a major difference between Tulsa, and the armpit 100miles away. I have lived in the western US for the last 15 years, and the tactics that are employed by ABLE, and the LEO's is unheard of in the west. I have also spent some time east of OK, and it's the same as west of OK. It's sad that what is good for OKC is bad for Tulsa.

It's sad that the ways of ABLE have not changed in the last 25 years. And the new ABLE, Drug Enforcement Task Force means that you now have close to 300 people that can walk in and shut down any establishment, even if there are no violations.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: AquaMan on February 17, 2013, 10:20:07 am
I think Verada is right. This was a tactic, not a raid. They had other motives. Kind of like stopping a car for the driver not wearing a seatbelt. It was likely the result of profiling and allowed a search based on some tip received, but the seatbelt law allowed access.

Or they expected some overtime, some free pizza and a chance to gig the councilor. And KJRH needs to stroke the TPD alot more than they do entrepreneurs who reside close to two competitors, KOTV and TW.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Gaspar on February 18, 2013, 04:37:23 pm
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Tulsa-police-release-details-about-compliance/N4zbYvV0CUWhrbnuHzkLpw.cspx?rss=2448&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"The Tulsa Police Department released information about compliance checks in an effort to clear up misinformation officials say is being spread."


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 18, 2013, 10:58:45 pm
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Tulsa-police-release-details-about-compliance/N4zbYvV0CUWhrbnuHzkLpw.cspx?rss=2448&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"The Tulsa Police Department released information about compliance checks in an effort to clear up misinformation officials say is being spread."

So it's settled:  Blake kills babies.

Broadcast crime reporters have too many conflicts of interest to give this a fair shake.
Maybe fox23 was waiting to jump into the fray so they could avoid the mistakes of the other broadcasters?
After all, it seemed the TV crime reporters were not wanting to rock TPD's boat to protect their ride-alongs,
Nope.   23 actually did their kissup piece from a ride-along....

KTUL was almost as bad:

Quote
A Tulsa City Councilor has some tough questions coming his way. District 4's Blake Ewing runs several downtown businesses but an encounter with law enforcement over violations at his establishments may not be his shining moment.
There are other more pressing matters like, why Councilor Ewing didn't have the proper city licenses, did he leave a city council meeting to address the personal business with his restaurants the night in question and did he imply he would not support a new police academy in the future. It's unlikely we've heard the last of this incident not from Councilor Ewing or Chief Jordan There is a supposed to be a meeting between them about the Blue Dome District later this month.

http://www.ktul.com/story/21129648/city-councilor-and-police-at-odds-over-compliance-checks

So pressing that she couldnt make a phone call to the councilor for her story? 
This is why Im glad we still have a newspaper in this berg.






Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: carltonplace on February 19, 2013, 09:28:48 am
Sounds like a pre-emptive strike against any potential re-election campaign.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: TheArtist on February 19, 2013, 10:18:19 am
The story might have gone down differently until Blake implied that his business may have been targeted.  Even if it were true, that would be extremely hard to impossible to prove, and of course the police department would put out info to confirm their view... both together would result in a story that would have to look unfortunate on Blakes behalf.  All the other things Blake said were defensible, and even the "targeting" point at the time I am sure surely felt and would seem to be that way, and anyone can understand the emotions involved that would lead to the feeling and the comment.  Now I don't know all the details of the story but from my perspective,  I would immediately acknowledge that it indeed was an error mistakenly said in haste (even if the premise is correct it's unprovable and now a distraction), apologize for that error, and and then promptly turn the discussion back to the other points in which he can make a good case.  As difficult as that may be in the situation, over all it would likely be better imho.  Otherwise both parties will either be looking for some face saving "out" which will result in lingering negative questions, Or, things will get uglier with the "targeting" thing becoming the dominant discussion and Blake looking bad.  There again an opinion based on my cursory info as to what is going on.

I think there are legitimate questions as to why there were so many uniformed officers at his place, or any similar ones for that matter, to do what they said was being done and at those hours.  Not business and customer friendly, and wasteful of tax dollars.  

Ok, after listening to the radio story, I take back the apology thing lol.  Blake seems to be handling this very well without my sage advice lol.  


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: swake on February 19, 2013, 10:25:22 am
Figuring 2 hours per check which considering travel time to and from and paperwork is probably low, at 3-4 officers that’s 1200-1600 man hours since October. That’s almost enough hours for an  entire FTE for a cop for a full year! To check on video game and jukebox stickers! This is the city’s only real involvement, liquor licenses and properly marked bottles is enforcement of state tax laws, that’s ABLE’s job, not TPD. If they were checking food handlers permits that’s a county function that we have the health department for. The city is getting a few buck here and there from city licenses of Amusement games, no way is that ever going to come anywhere close to the ~100k that it costs to put a cop on the street for a year. This stinks, TPD is acting as ABLE strong arm putting 3-4 cops into local businesses to check on minor license issues. Law Enforcement in Oklahoma both at the state level and in Tulsa is way out of control and is not working for the citizens benefit.

Many years ago I was a manager at a big south side restaurant and bar. Normal checks happen with a single ABLE agent in the afternoon and are no big deal. They check that the staff on the posted schedule all have a posted licenses and look over the bottles for stamps. These checks at these busy times are pure harassment.

Often on nights when we would have a big crowd into see this or that band we often would have a certain TPD officer come in and take up my time checking  this kind of crap at like 11:00 at night with 500 people in the place. I checked with cops that I was friendly with and this joker’s beat was north Tulsa, not 71st and Memorial. He worked day shift anyway. Devoted public servant that one, working hours after his shift ten miles from his area. conviently, someone named Steve Kitchell had a place just one mile away. His late drunk of a brother was a regular at our bar and I’m sure he was reporting back to Steve when we got busy. I wonder what was encouraging that fine TPD officer to do come and check us out so long after the end of his shift?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Conan71 on February 19, 2013, 10:51:20 am
Figuring 2 hours per check which considering travel time to and from and paperwork is probably low, at 3-4 officers that’s 1200-1600 man hours since October. That’s almost enough hours for an  entire FTE for a cop for a full year! To check on video game and jukebox stickers! This is the city’s only real involvement, liquor licenses and properly marked bottles is enforcement of state tax laws, that’s ABLE’s job, not TPD. If they were checking food handlers permits that’s a county function that we have the health department for. The city is getting a few buck here and there from city licenses of Amusement games, no way is that ever going to come anywhere close to the ~100k that it costs to put a cop on the street for a year. This stinks, TPD is acting as ABLE strong arm putting 3-4 cops into local businesses to check on minor license issues. Law Enforcement in Oklahoma both at the state level and in Tulsa is way out of control and is not working for the citizens benefit.

Many years ago I was a manager at a big south side restaurant and bar. Normal checks happen with a single ABLE agent in the afternoon and are no big deal. They check that the staff on the posted schedule all have a posted licenses and look over the bottles for stamps. These checks at these busy times are pure harassment.

Often on nights when we would have a big crowd into see this or that band we often would have a certain TPD officer come in and take up my time checking  this kind of crap at like 11:00 at night with 500 people in the place. I checked with cops that I was friendly with and this joker’s beat was north Tulsa, not 71st and Memorial. He worked day shift anyway. Devoted public servant that one, working hours after his shift ten miles from his area. conviently, someone named Steve Kitchell had a place just one mile away. His late drunk of a brother was a regular at our bar and I’m sure he was reporting back to Steve when we got busy. I wonder what was encouraging that fine TPD officer to do come and check us out so long after the end of his shift?


I'm well aware of the PD checking out "anonymous tips" of underage drinking lodged by certain dooshbag club owners on their competitors.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Hoss on February 19, 2013, 10:51:48 am
Figuring 2 hours per check which considering travel time to and from and paperwork is probably low, at 3-4 officers that’s 1200-1600 man hours since October. That’s almost enough hours for an  entire FTE for a cop for a full year! To check on video game and jukebox stickers! This is the city’s only real involvement, liquor licenses and properly marked bottles is enforcement of state tax laws, that’s ABLE’s job, not TPD. If they were checking food handlers permits that’s a county function that we have the health department for. The city is getting a few buck here and there from city licenses of Amusement games, no way is that ever going to come anywhere close to the ~100k that it costs to put a cop on the street for a year. This stinks, TPD is acting as ABLE strong arm putting 3-4 cops into local businesses to check on minor license issues. Law Enforcement in Oklahoma both at the state level and in Tulsa is way out of control and is not working for the citizens benefit.

Many years ago I was a manager at a big south side restaurant and bar. Normal checks happen with a single ABLE agent in the afternoon and are no big deal. They check that the staff on the posted schedule all have a posted licenses and look over the bottles for stamps. These checks at these busy times are pure harassment.

Often on nights when we would have a big crowd into see this or that band we often would have a certain TPD officer come in and take up my time checking  this kind of crap at like 11:00 at night with 500 people in the place. I checked with cops that I was friendly with and this joker’s beat was north Tulsa, not 71st and Memorial. He worked day shift anyway. Devoted public servant that one, working hours after his shift ten miles from his area. conviently, someone named Steve Kitchell had a place just one mile away. His late drunk of a brother was a regular at our bar and I’m sure he was reporting back to Steve when we got busy. I wonder what was encouraging that fine TPD officer to do come and check us out so long after the end of his shift?


Ah yes.  The legacy of Steve Kitchell...


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: JCnOwasso on February 19, 2013, 11:12:24 am
I am a little confused about the situation.  After reading the Fox report it said that normal compliance checks take 3-4 cops and 1 ABLE.  Why did ABLE decide to bring 4 and why did the cops add another?  And let's get real, I have spent some time in these establishments and I don't normally identify the Blue Dome District as the forefront of mischief.  I also don't know of many underage drinkers who start out at 6PM on a Thursday.  You want to catch these guys when they are extremely busy with their bars and don't pay much attention to what is going on.  And the statement by ABLE that if they have had activity at a location, trouble makers stay away??? ha, if I were them I would head to those places because I knew they had already been cleared.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Townsend on February 19, 2013, 11:15:30 am
Pat Campbell with Blake Ewing on KFAQ

Tulsa City Council and business owner Blake Ewing on Tulsa officers in the Blue Dome district restaurants


http://media.1170kfaq.com/audio/blake+ewing.mp3 (http://media.1170kfaq.com/audio/blake+ewing.mp3)


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: swake on February 19, 2013, 11:26:29 am
I'm well aware of the PD checking out "anonymous tips" of underage drinking lodged by certain dooshbag club owners on their competitors.

The way we stopped it was that we started hiring off duty cops to work our door and sit with whoever was checking IDs wearing a yellow TPD t-shirt. The cop that harassed us didn't seem to want to come check us when we had another TPD officer sitting at the door. We also had zero problems with ugly drunks or underage drinkers and had no need for bouncers. A well spent $60 bucks.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Gaspar on February 19, 2013, 12:21:15 pm
Pat Campbell with Blake Ewing on KFAQ

Tulsa City Council and business owner Blake Ewing on Tulsa officers in the Blue Dome district restaurants


http://media.1170kfaq.com/audio/blake+ewing.mp3 (http://media.1170kfaq.com/audio/blake+ewing.mp3)

I think the one good thing to come out of this, as implied by Blake, is that TPD really needs to take into account the public impression they make through such acts.  City budgets are under more scrutiny than ever in this economy, and all departments should be very concerned with creating a public impression of efficiency and establishing a set of priorities that agree with what the public sees as important.

Tulsa is very fortunate to have a low rate of crime, and one of the best and well trained police forces in the country.  It is a shame to have incidents like this damage that reputation, and leadership should take note, and reflect before any future efforts.



Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: TheArtist on February 19, 2013, 12:46:49 pm


Tulsa is very fortunate to have a low rate of crime, and one of the best and well trained police forces in the country.  It is a shame to have incidents like this damage that reputation, and leadership should take note, and reflect before any future efforts.



Really?  I thought it was well known that Tulsa is one of the worst, higher crime rate cities in the US? Have our stats gotten that much better over the last year or so?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Cats Cats Cats on February 19, 2013, 02:27:22 pm

I guess I don't understand why the city needs any police officers to check arcade game licenses.  That is not a good use of police officer's time and resources.  Let a regular city employee check the arcade license, much like the sales tax notice.


"It shall be the duty of the Director, his authorized inspectors and the police officers of the City of Tulsa to enforce the provisions of this chapter requiring persons operating or offering coin operated devices...."  Page 23

http://www.cityoftulsa.org/media/31843/title%2021%20-%20licenses%20s19.pdf (http://www.cityoftulsa.org/media/31843/title%2021%20-%20licenses%20s19.pdf)

Here is what I think made Blake a little upset and he probably would have been more upset if he knew what could have happened to his employees.

From Page 23:  "Any person, firm or corporation violating any of the provisions of this chapter shall be guilty of an offense and, upon conviction therof, shall be punished by a fine not to exceed FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500), excluding costs, and/or by imprisonment in the City Jail for a period not exceeding (30) days."

So the TPD writes tickets to employees, I think there was 9 or 10 at the Max.  I am assuming that each ticket could have a month in jail for the employee.  That is just messed up that employees gets tickets for the busines and the police won't give them to the business owner when he is standing there asking for them.  To think that Blake would try to throw around his part time job for a few hundred dollars in tax certificates is laughable.

The tickets are in employees names.  I could see other less reputable business owners firing their employees and letting them handle the tickets.  How is that right?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: DTowner on February 19, 2013, 02:40:51 pm
It is written in the law about city tax stickers.  They are the enforcement arm for the city.

Zoning and building codes are "written in the law" and, last I knew, TPD was not yet enforcing those laws.  Checking arcade licesnses and vending machines is not a good or efficient use of highly trained and expensively equipped police officers. 


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Cats Cats Cats on February 19, 2013, 02:44:46 pm
Zoning and building codes are "written in the law" and, last I knew, TPD was not yet enforcing those laws.  Checking arcade licesnses and vending machines is not a good or efficient use of highly trained and expensively equipped police officers. 

I edited my post with more information.  And I agree with you.  Not only are they highly trained police officers but also cover some of the most dangerous areas I believe.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Teatownclown on February 19, 2013, 02:47:53 pm
I think Verada is right. This was a tactic, not a raid. They had other motives. Kind of like stopping a car for the driver not wearing a seatbelt. It was likely the result of profiling and allowed a search based on some tip received, but the seatbelt law allowed access.

Or they expected some overtime, some free pizza and a chance to gig the councilor. And KJRH needs to stroke the TPD alot more than they do entrepreneurs who reside close to two competitors, KOTV and TW.

I think word gets around and BE may be guilty of hubris. He needs to relax it out and learn to play the game. He'll get nowhere being arrogrunt.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Gaspar on February 19, 2013, 03:04:24 pm
I think word gets around and BE may be guilty of hubris. He needs to relax it out and learn to play the game. He'll get nowhere being arrogrunt.

Typical.

I would not have handled myself nearly as well as Blake did.  There was no rational reason for them to present a show of force durring peak hours, and harass his staff when he, the owner, stood by accepting responsibility.  At some point this may require the mayor's attention.  This is not standard police procedure.  I have yet to see a battalion of officers invade Chucky Cheese and issue citations.  I am willing to bet the mouse is also out of compliance.

Those who attack the rationale of the game, and not the players, are its most formidable adversaries. – James J. Martin


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: dbacks fan on February 19, 2013, 03:05:18 pm
I think word gets around and BE may be guilty of hubris. He needs to relax it out and learn to play the game. He'll get nowhere being arrogrunt.

Pot calling kettle are we?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Cats Cats Cats on February 19, 2013, 03:24:01 pm
I think Verada is right. This was a tactic, not a raid. They had other motives. Kind of like stopping a car for the driver not wearing a seatbelt. It was likely the result of profiling and allowed a search based on some tip received, but the seatbelt law allowed access.

Or they expected some overtime, some free pizza and a chance to gig the councilor. And KJRH needs to stroke the TPD alot more than they do entrepreneurs who reside close to two competitors, KOTV and TW.

The biggest violations should be at bars.  At 6:00 there really aren't enough people there to warrant that many officers.  I bet there were 9 people in the Max at 6:00 on a Thursday.  That isn't the time to catch extra crimes at the bar so I think this is just an inefficient use of manpower.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 19, 2013, 07:43:45 pm
The story might have gone down differently until Blake implied that his business may have been targeted.

At the time of the raids, his observation was correct, but TPD went through the motions later with some other restaurants once they realized they stepped in it.
Its also likely the emails "leaked" to KJRH may have been crafted specifically for that purpose.  How long would it have taken for the TW to obtain something like that through the Open Records Act?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 19, 2013, 08:03:43 pm
Chief Chuck Jordan directs all activities of the department.

Mayor Dewey Bartlett appoints him.

So, if there is a situation, it belongs with these two guys.  The officers are only doing what their directions specify.  And Jordan does what Bartlett specifies.

Gonna vote for Dewey again??  Well, it wouldn't surprise me if he is re-elected.  Disappoint, yes,...surprise, no.



Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Cats Cats Cats on February 19, 2013, 09:59:29 pm
At the time of the raids, his observation was correct, but TPD went through the motions later with some other restaurants once they realized they stepped in it.
Its also likely the emails "leaked" to KJRH may have been crafted specifically for that purpose.  How long would it have taken for the TW to obtain something like that through the Open Records Act?

Longer than the 24 hours it took the news channel to.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Cats Cats Cats on February 19, 2013, 10:06:44 pm
http://www.newson6.com/story/20009287/tpd-able-commission-focus-on-alcohol-crimes-to-prevent-other-major-crimes (http://www.newson6.com/story/20009287/tpd-able-commission-focus-on-alcohol-crimes-to-prevent-other-major-crimes)

So I found proof that they tripled their force from previous inspections.  Here is the news story about how they are going around businesses in high crime rates in the hopes of reducing major crimes by reducing alcohol crimes.   They focused on areas such as 47th and Braden and 61st and Peoria (it really helped there didn't it).  This is the same reason given for the raid on blue dome.  Anyway, they had a task force of 3 people to check bars around 61st and Peoria but they need 5 TPD and 4 ABLE agents to check Joe Momma's.  If you can't multiply, they sent 3 times the law enforcement to Joe Momma's than a bar at 61st and Peoria.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Conan71 on February 20, 2013, 09:28:45 am
I can't recall the movie at the moment, but I'm reminded of this gem (or a close facsimile thereof):

"Don't you guys have something better to do like shaking down a Dunkin' Donuts for day old donuts?"

Anyone remember the movie?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: JCnOwasso on February 20, 2013, 09:57:58 am
Those who attack the rationale of the game, and not the players, are its most formidable adversaries. – James J. Martin

Don't hate the playa, hate the game?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Gaspar on February 20, 2013, 10:36:20 am
Don't hate the playa, hate the game?

Tru dat!


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: patric on February 20, 2013, 06:45:43 pm
Don't hate the playa, hate the game?

How far up or down the ladder would you draw the line?


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: JCnOwasso on February 21, 2013, 10:06:49 am
How far up or down the ladder would you draw the line?

For some reason the differences, in politics, between the "playa" and the "game" are cloudy.  And in this case, the "playa's" have created the "game".  And honestly, I have no idea.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 22, 2013, 10:46:16 pm
Don't hate the playa, hate the game?


TPD trying to paint themselves as some sort of "victim" in this, is a major fail.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: AquaMan on February 23, 2013, 10:24:57 am
It may be a fail in accuracy, but what makes you think it isn't a success in the general public, which isn't represented on this forum?

It was powerful to read the letter to the editor in this week's World, Thursday I think, from a former restauranteur who was present at the inspection at Joe Momma's and whose account differs from the TPD, but not enough to counter the bad PR that Blake got from the local tv stations.

I'm sure Blake knows that this is part of the cycle the press follows of building up people, events, and organizations till they peak in positive acceptance....then studiously tearing them down with the same tactics. The press is like bookies. They make money from the process. They don't care who wins.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 25, 2013, 10:53:20 pm
It was powerful to read the letter to the editor in this week's World, Thursday I think, from a former restauranteur who was present at the inspection at Joe Momma's and whose account differs from the TPD, but not enough to counter the bad PR that Blake got from the local tv stations.

Quote
http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectid=62&articleid=20130222_62_A14_Idonot955780&r=1060#3346868
Based on recent events, in Tulsa and across the country, it is very startling to see nine officers enter an establishment. And to do this "compliance inspection" at peak business hours when the owner is knowingly not present reflects an attitude of arrogance that is hard to comprehend.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Hoss on February 25, 2013, 10:58:16 pm
It may be a fail in accuracy, but what makes you think it isn't a success in the general public, which isn't represented on this forum?

It was powerful to read the letter to the editor in this week's World, Thursday I think, from a former restauranteur who was present at the inspection at Joe Momma's and whose account differs from the TPD, but not enough to counter the bad PR that Blake got from the local tv stations.

I'm sure Blake knows that this is part of the cycle the press follows of building up people, events, and organizations till they peak in positive acceptance....then studiously tearing them down with the same tactics. The press is like bookies. They make money from the process. They don't care who wins.

There's no such thing as 'bad' PR.  The Police handled this poorly.  Blake probably could have handled it better, but in this instance, after this and listening to the radio interview he did, I tend to side with him.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 26, 2013, 08:12:44 am
Still wondering....why Bartlett hasn't started an "investigation"....?

Oh, wait...I almost forgot...


This is the stuff people from outside see way too often when they look at Tulsa...from the IOC to Micron to ...???....!  Small town politics played in a medium sized metropolitan area that should have outgrown this particular kind of nonsense at least by the late 60's! 





Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: BKDotCom on March 01, 2013, 12:11:47 pm
There's no such thing as 'bad' PR.

http://www.newson6.com/story/21436380/three-arrested-after-shot-fired-in-downtown-tulsa


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Hoss on March 01, 2013, 01:24:44 pm
http://www.newson6.com/story/21436380/three-arrested-after-shot-fired-in-downtown-tulsa


Were these guys arrested of expired gaming stickers?

Given that Ch6 can't even spell the name of the business correctly (given that it's in huge script out front of the scene) I'm not going to worry too much about it.  Considering that there are about 6 other businesses on that block.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: rdj on March 01, 2013, 01:25:37 pm
Were these guys plants by TPD to scare off potential customers of the Blue Dome?   ;D ;D

EDIT:  Fixed grammar.


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Teatownclown on March 01, 2013, 01:36:47 pm
There goes the neighborhood....


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: Vashta Nerada on May 14, 2013, 09:45:16 pm
ABLE's Smoot held a press conference to deny rumors he's a heavy handed bureaucrat justifying his job:

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Law-enforcement-team-up-for-Mayfest/8ARQ_x9kBk6poEIOIRkgCQ.cspx


Title: Re: I sincerely hope..
Post by: patric on July 11, 2015, 04:23:41 pm
This seems to be a lucrative area for stopping people coming from restaurants and bars.
Last night the ABLE/OHP/TPD trio targeted the area with another roadblock; of the 275 stops only 12 were for DUI, the rest were for "other."