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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => Local & State Politics => Topic started by: patric on December 08, 2012, 05:11:16 pm



Title: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on December 08, 2012, 05:11:16 pm
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/americas-50-worst-state-legislatures


Still under the influence of the 2010 conservative landslide, state lawmakers over the last 12 months alternatively sought to ban abstract concepts, combat invisible threats, and generally strip away rights from the constituents who sent them to their respective chambers. In a year in which Washington was synonymous with inaction, America's state legislatures offered the best possible argument for gridlock. After all, sometimes getting things done can be a lot worse than the alternative.

No statehouse was immune from crazy. But a few stood out above the rest. Here's a quick look at the worst of the worst. Rankings are purely scientific:


(1) Tennessee: MoJo's cutting-edge algorithm awards a 500-point bonus to any state legislature that inspires a news story with the phrase "gateway body parts" and "governor signs" in the same paragraph. Republican Gov. Bill Haslam accomplished the feat in May when he signed into law a new abstinence-only sex education program that critics warned would prohibit almost any discussion of sexual activity during sex ed. As Bristol's WCYB dryly reported, "News 5 looked into the bill and learned its language has been mocked across the country…"

The gateway body parts bill was part of a new push to crack down on various other gateways, including gateway words, such as "gay." GOP state Sen. Stacey Campfield's bill sought to prohibit the discussion of homosexuality for grade schoolers. Campfield articulated his views in a January radio interview:

    Most people realize that AIDS came from the homosexual community—it was one guy screwing a monkey, if I recall correctly, and then having sex with men. It was an airline pilot, if I recall. My understanding is that it is virtually—not completely, but virtually—impossible to contract AIDS through heterosexual sex.

Things went downhill from there. The Legislature passed a bill in April (later vetoed) to provide cover for teachers who question evolution and climate change in their classrooms, along with legislation that classified miscarriages as murder, and a bill cracking down on saggy pants. Democrats complained that the saggy pants bill did not go far enough. Although Haslam declined to sign a resolution, passed by the Legislature in May, condemning Agenda 21, a spokesman emphasized that the governor did, in fact, oppose the 1992 UN action plan on sustainable development.
Comedy Central described New Hampshire's state house of reps as "a bunch of part-time real-estate agents throwing monkey feces at a wall." But that's not entirely fair—some of them are lawyers too.

As impressive as the laws it passed were, though, the Tennessee Legislature was perhaps defined by its individual acts of #fail. In January, GOP state Sen. Bo Watson introduced legislation designed to crack down on the scourge of transgender citizens, by introducing legislation that, per ThinkProgress, "would institute a $50 fine for anybody who does not use the public restroom or dressing room that matches the sex identification on his or her birth certificate." In April, Republican state Rep. Matthew Hill introduced a bill to disclose the names of all doctors who perform abortions in the state, along with demographic information about patients that could possibly be used to identify them. In July, the Huffington Post reported that GOP state Rep. Kelly Keisling "emailed constituents Tuesday morning with a rumor circulating in conservative circles that President Barack Obama is planning to stage a fake assassination attempt in an effort to stop the 2012 election from happening."

(2) Oklahoma: It was business as usual in the Sooner State. The state House tried—but failed—to reclassify fetuses as people. The Legislature mandated that high school teachers warn their kids about the shortcomings of the theory of evolution. An anti-gay (among other things) pastor was invited to address the Legislature, and promptly called 9/11 a warning from God and bashed the notion that "kids across the nation are taught they are advanced mutations of a baboon."

Yawn.

Oklahoma's legislature will be remembered for one thing and one thing only in 2012: GOP state Sen. Ralph Shortey's bill to criminalize the use of human fetuses in food products. Shortey explained in January that he wasn't sure if any companies were actually putting fetuses in food products. But "the fact is that there is a potential that there are companies that are using aborted human babies in their research and development of basically enhancing flavor for artificial flavors. And if that is happening—because it is a possibility—and if it's happening, then I just don't think it should even be an option for a company."


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: guido911 on December 09, 2012, 01:01:13 am
Oh goody, another "Oklahoma sucks" thread. And from "Mother Jones" to boot. What's the matter, DailyKos or MSNBC not covering Oklahoma this week?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on December 09, 2012, 01:16:30 am
Oh goody, another "Oklahoma sucks" thread. And from "Mother Jones" to boot. What's the matter, DailyKos or MSNBC not covering Oklahoma this week?

Legislature.

It's a recurring thing...the Oklahoma legislature...it sucking.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Breadburner on December 09, 2012, 11:51:20 am
Feel free to "GTFO" if you don't like it....!


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on December 09, 2012, 11:56:16 am
Feel free to "GTFO" if you don't like it....!

Awesome.  No argument and you tell someone to 'GTFO'.  Weak.

I don't like our state government either.  Doesn't mean I'm leaving.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on December 09, 2012, 02:18:54 pm
Feel free to "GTFO" if you don't like it....!

There's a sunburned neck, big belt buckle, mouth breathing response.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on December 09, 2012, 02:37:31 pm
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fE9Xf5i1zk8/TyEsOU-K3_I/AAAAAAAAmGE/hYKUvOVxfCQ/s1600/McBaby.jpg)


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on December 09, 2012, 02:58:48 pm
There's a sunburned neck, big belt buckle, mouth breathing response.

Is that surprising, considering the source?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: guido911 on December 09, 2012, 07:11:37 pm
Legislature.

It's a recurring thing...the Oklahoma legislature...it sucking.

Tell us T, how long has it been sucking? For the past several decades or only since the Repubs took over a few years ago. And incidentally, the legislature is a representative body. Saying it sucks suggests that those that voted for its members, and continue to do so, says those voters suck as well.

So you know, having "mother jones" (who in the hell is that author, Tim Murphy) tell us how bad we are means absolutely zilch IMO. But I know, to the left it's probably cause to bust out the stroke salve.

Oklahoma is a red state. It does red state sorts of things. You belong is a class of persons who simply do not want to accept it. Blue states do their own things I find stupid, such as stopping the sale of certain sizes soft drinks, etc.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on December 09, 2012, 10:13:18 pm
Tell us T, how long has it been sucking? For the past several decades or only since the Repubs took over a few years ago. And incidentally, the legislature is a representative body. Saying it sucks suggests that those that voted for its members, and continue to do so, says those voters suck as well.

I'll take a gander tomorrow but mostly I was correcting the state v legislature thing.

As far as the voters?  Yeah, I can see where you're getting that.  I'll go along with your statement.  I've never voted a winner in so looks like I'm good. 

I wonder if part of inauguration is signing a "welcome to the suck" form.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on December 09, 2012, 11:35:17 pm
I've never voted a winner in so looks like I'm good. 

I used to be able to do that by voting Republican for local and state elections.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 10, 2012, 02:36:55 pm
What is sad is that it has become an acceptable "red state thing" to denounced science, pass real laws to cure pretend threats, and use religion for any political purpose that is convenient (hating gays, 911 conspiracies, making sure other religions know they are inferior).  Note you did not argue with the content... Oklahoma really did those things.  You just do not like it being pointed out that most people laugh at it.

As for "gtfo," it seems the liberals won the White House, increased the control of the Senate, and made inroads in the house.  The GOP needs to realize it is moving to a small tent party.  If you arent with the party line on these issues gtfo... and many of us have been forced to.  Out of the Party and on to other candidates in the general election.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: guido911 on December 12, 2012, 04:17:02 pm
What is sad is that it has become an acceptable "red state thing" to denounced science, pass real laws to cure pretend threats, and use religion for any political purpose that is convenient (hating gays, 911 conspiracies, making sure other religions know they are inferior).  Note you did not argue with the content... Oklahoma really did those things.  You just do not like it being pointed out that most people laugh at it.

As for "gtfo," it seems the liberals won the White House, increased the control of the Senate, and made inroads in the house.  The GOP needs to realize it is moving to a small tent party.  If you arent with the party line on these issues gtfo... and many of us have been forced to.  Out of the Party and on to other candidates in the general election.

People can start laughing at Michigan now.

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/12/12/michigan-senate-passes-major-pro-life-bill-stopping-abortions/


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on December 12, 2012, 04:18:44 pm
People can start laughing at Michigan now.

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/12/12/michigan-senate-passes-major-pro-life-bill-stopping-abortions/

Well, I've just gone ahead and deleted my comments.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: nathanm on December 15, 2012, 08:02:20 pm
You can be fairly certain that any article that uses the term "abortion profits" is written by someone who is not connected with reality.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on December 15, 2012, 09:46:39 pm
You can be fairly certain that any article that uses the term "abortion profits" is written by someone who is not connected with reality.

Just like any article which uses the term "war on women".


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on January 07, 2013, 11:06:40 am
Expect More Conservative Bills

http://kwgs.com/post/expect-more-conservative-bills (http://kwgs.com/post/expect-more-conservative-bills)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Emboldened by further gains at the ballot box in November, Oklahoma's Republican leaders say they remain committed to improving the state's economy by focusing on creating jobs and a business friendly environment.

But with nearly two dozen new Republican members, GOP leaders acknowledge they also expect to see even more conservative legislation this session that pushes the envelope on hot-button social issues like guns, abortion and immigration.

Although the bill filing deadline is still two weeks away, Senate measures are beginning to trickle in, some of which reflect the conservative ideology of the 36-member strong Republican caucus.

At least two measures have been filed to limit the activities of groups connected to Agenda 21, a plan developed by the United Nations to help cities and countries become more environmentally sustainable.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: guido911 on January 07, 2013, 01:36:47 pm
Expect More Conservative Bills

http://kwgs.com/post/expect-more-conservative-bills (http://kwgs.com/post/expect-more-conservative-bills)


You mean to tell me that an even larger conservative majority plans on filing even more conservative-premised bills? Shocka....

(http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/1/8/3/6/6/3/5/shocked-face-1268785177.jpeg)


And here I though the repubs were dead and buried.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on January 07, 2013, 01:38:52 pm
And here I though the repubs were dead and buried.

It's Oklahoma.  Politically and intellectually, the term "Oklahoma legislator" could be used as an insult.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Gaspar on January 07, 2013, 01:52:45 pm
The problem with political jokes is they get elected. – Henry Cate VII


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: guido911 on January 07, 2013, 02:09:57 pm
It's Oklahoma.  Politically and intellectually, the term "Oklahoma legislator" could be used as an insult.

No doubt since the republicans took control in 2008. Before then, everything was a-okay.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on January 07, 2013, 02:11:15 pm
No doubt since the republicans took control in 2008. Before then, everything was a-okay.

That's not what I remember but your opinion is yours to have.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 07, 2013, 11:14:32 pm
There's a sunburned neck, big belt buckle, mouth breathing response.

He's not bright enough for that.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 07, 2013, 11:15:41 pm
Feel free to "GTFO" if you don't like it....!

No.  Just change it until these types leave.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 07, 2013, 11:16:48 pm
Oh goody, another "Oklahoma sucks" thread. And from "Mother Jones" to boot. What's the matter, DailyKos or MSNBC not covering Oklahoma this week?


What...reality casting a pall on those rose colored glasses??



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 07, 2013, 11:18:50 pm
I used to be able to do that by voting Republican for local and state elections.



Actually, no you never did.  You were way too young to vote for Page Belcher.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 07, 2013, 11:21:32 pm
No doubt since the republicans took control in 2008. Before then, everything was a-okay.

No.  Many things have been messed up in Oklahoma for a long time.  Go drive the turnpikes again.  That's one of the most obvious symptoms.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: sauerkraut on January 10, 2013, 01:39:20 pm
I don't agree with Oklahoma's legislature as being the worst in the nation, Nebraska has a one-house system they call it a "UniCaminal" and it does not work well at all. Oklahoma is doing pretty darn good with low unemployment and low taxes and a low cost of living, it's hard to beat that. We have a good Governor who works for the people. Oklahoma is OK compaired to many other states. I have lived in 5 states.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on January 10, 2013, 01:40:47 pm
Nebraska has a one-house system they call it a "UniCaminal"

No they don't.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on January 10, 2013, 01:56:40 pm
I don't agree with Oklahoma's legislature as being the worst in the nation, Nebraska has a one-house system they call it a "UniCaminal" and it does not work well at all. Oklahoma is doing pretty darn good with low unemployment and low taxes and a low cost of living, it's hard to beat that. We have a good Governor who works for the people. Oklahoma is OK compaired to many other states. I have lived in 5 states.

I've run out of facepalm images.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on January 10, 2013, 02:33:48 pm
I don't agree with Oklahoma's legislature as being the worst in the nation, Nebraska has a one-house system they call it a "UniCaminal" and it does not work well at all.

Ok, ill throw him a clue:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBt8ZERvE1Q[/youtube]


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 10, 2013, 05:04:54 pm
I don't agree with Oklahoma's legislature as being the worst in the nation, Nebraska has a one-house system they call it a "UniCaminal" and it does not work well at all. Oklahoma is doing pretty darn good with low unemployment and low taxes and a low cost of living, it's hard to beat that. We have a good Governor who works for the people. Oklahoma is OK compaired to many other states. I have lived in 5 states.


All 5 at once, no doubt....  every been to the state of "Reality"??



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on January 10, 2013, 05:18:10 pm

All 5 at once, no doubt....  every been to the state of "Reality"??



Plus, what's a "UniCaminal"?  Sounds like something you'd find in a men's restroom.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: sauerkraut on January 11, 2013, 02:14:08 pm
Yep, Nebraska is the only state that has a combined house & senate into one. Anyhow I heard that the state of LA is also working to get rid of their state income tax. Oklahoma may be going to a flat rate income tax of 2.2% I heard mentioned on the radio news. (KRMG). I wish Oklahoma would just get rid of the state income tax and be like Texas.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on January 11, 2013, 02:28:52 pm
Yep, Nebraska is the only state that has a combined house & senate into one. Anyhow I heard that the state of LA is also working to get rid of their state income tax. Oklahoma may be going to a flat rate income tax of 2.2% I heard mentioned on the radio news. (KRMG). I wish Oklahoma would just get rid of the state income tax and be like Texas.

You are aware that Texas has very high property tax rates to compensate for the lack of a state income tax, right?  Personally, I'd rather see one collection point instead of a hodge-podge of taxes and "fees".


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on January 11, 2013, 02:42:53 pm
You are aware that Texas has very high property tax rates to compensate for the lack of a state income tax, right?  Personally, I'd rather see one collection point instead of a hodge-podge of taxes and "fees".

Not like I haven't mentioned that at least as many times as he has mentioned wishing OK would abolish the state income tax.

Which would be a lot.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on January 11, 2013, 03:21:06 pm
Oklahoma may be going to a flat rate income tax of 2.2% I heard mentioned on the radio news. (KRMG).

If it passes, I hope you make pretty good money or your taxes will increase.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on January 11, 2013, 04:25:26 pm
Not like I haven't mentioned that at least as many times as he has mentioned wishing OK would abolish the state income tax.

Which would be a lot.

I'm sure it would help Mary Fallin make unemployment less than 1%.  She's really pro-job.  Brad Henry- man what was unemployment under him 98%?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on January 11, 2013, 04:30:58 pm
I'm sure it would help Mary Fallin make unemployment less than 1%.  She's really pro-job.  Brad Henry- man what was unemployment under him 98%?

http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_&met_y=unemployment_rate&idim=state:ST400000&fdim_y=seasonality:S&dl=en&hl=en&q=oklahoma%20unemployment (http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_&met_y=unemployment_rate&idim=state:ST400000&fdim_y=seasonality:S&dl=en&hl=en&q=oklahoma%20unemployment)

Henry was 2003 thru 2010.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on January 12, 2013, 12:20:44 am
http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_&met_y=unemployment_rate&idim=state:ST400000&fdim_y=seasonality:S&dl=en&hl=en&q=oklahoma%20unemployment (http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_&met_y=unemployment_rate&idim=state:ST400000&fdim_y=seasonality:S&dl=en&hl=en&q=oklahoma%20unemployment)

Henry was 2003 thru 2010.

You apparently didn't catch me channeling my inner kraut.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on January 12, 2013, 12:27:36 am
You apparently didn't catch me channeling my inner kraut.

I did, actually.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: sauerkraut on January 12, 2013, 10:23:31 am
You are aware that Texas has very high property tax rates to compensate for the lack of a state income tax, right?  Personally, I'd rather see one collection point instead of a hodge-podge of taxes and "fees".
Oklahoma's prop. taxes are not all that cheap, Yes they are a bit higher in Texas, but income taxes are still a bigger burden than prop. taxes for most people. Another good point is in Texas you'd be spening less on heating bills, Texas has no food sales taxes, and vehicle regestrations are cheaper than in Oklahoma, don't forget all the nickle and dime taxes they add up too. If Mary Fallin can get rid of our income tax or put in a flat rate of 2.2% that would be a great improvement.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on January 12, 2013, 10:49:50 am
Oklahoma's prop. taxes are not all that cheap, Yes they are a bit higher in Texas, but income taxes are still a bigger burden than prop. taxes for most people. Another good point is in Texas you'd be spening less on heating bills, Texas has no food sales taxes, and vehicle regestrations are cheaper than in Oklahoma, don't forget all the nickle and dime taxes they add up too. If Mary Fallin can get rid of our income tax or put in a flat rate of 2.2% that would be a great improvement.

Then watch those property tax rates increase.  You can't get rid of a revenue maker in one place and not make it up somewhere else.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on January 12, 2013, 11:30:06 am
........ but income taxes are still a bigger burden than prop. taxes for most people.

This must just be your observation. It is not based on fact.

My property tax has tripled since I first bought my house in 1979. So has the value of my home. But my state income taxes have seen a very small increase in those years as my income did not triple and in fact, adjusted for inflation, is pretty much the same. That is reflected nationally as well. Middle class incomes are stagnated. Because I refinanced like many other people, my deductions for mortgage interest also rose dramatically in that period of rising interest rates, so my taxes at the state level have been pretty low. I also had three children to deduct. So your argument is just not true. Oklahoma is cheap to live in, and its education and infrastructure are evidence of that. Texas is the opposite.

Pity the poor retiree whose income has declined, whose investments were stolen or have soured, and whose deductions have dwindled but whose property taxes continue to rise even when the value of their homes has flattened out. They pay a much larger proportion of real estate tax than income tax.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: nathanm on January 12, 2013, 02:40:37 pm
I wish Oklahoma would just get rid of the state income tax and be like Texas.

Broke? A couple of years ago a story was making the rounds highlighting Texas as being oh so great compared to commie California because they weren't having any budget shortfalls due to the economic downturn. Unfortunately, what most people failed to understand is that they weren't having any arguments over the budget in Texas because they do two year appropriations down there. Sure enough, next cycle came around and they found themselves billions of dollars short. Sadly, no crow was served or eaten.

We let our media, no matter its political leaning or lack thereof, get away with an astonishing amount of BS peddling. Nobody forces most of them to take ownership of what they've written and answer for that which turned out to be plainly wrong. A few journalists and bloggers do it on their own, but it's atypical. Between that and poor coverage due to staffing cuts, the Legislature can get away with just about anything and we just hear about the stupid after the fact.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on January 12, 2013, 06:39:26 pm
My property tax has tripled since I first bought my house in 1979. So has the value of my home.

You should be ecstatic.  Isn't that the goal of every homeowner, to have the value of their house soar?  It seems like one of the main advantages of every development project is to increase property values.  Are you saying that is not a good thing?
 
 :D


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on January 12, 2013, 07:05:16 pm
You should be ecstatic.  Isn't that the goal of every homeowner, to have the value of their house soar?  It seems like one of the main advantages of every development project is to increase property values.  Are you saying that is not a good thing?
 
 :D

I am ecstatic. Along with that increase in value came a corresponding increase in ad valorem tax. My point was that my real estate tax grew much faster than my state income tax. In fact, even though my house value declined since 2008, the property tax continued to rise. Sauer seems to think that state income taxes are a greater burden than property taxes in Oklahoma. Maybe in rural OK but that hasn't been my experience in the metro.

State income taxes are fairly low here, we offer tons of deductions and the interest I paid on my refinanced home at a higher interest rate, meant even larger deductions off my federal income which meant less income taxable by the state.

Just keeping him honest.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on January 12, 2013, 11:10:04 pm
I am ecstatic. Along with that increase in value came a corresponding increase in ad valorem tax. My point was that my real estate tax grew much faster than my state income tax. In fact, even though my house value declined since 2008, the property tax continued to rise. Sauer seems to think that state income taxes are a greater burden than property taxes in Oklahoma. Maybe in rural OK but that hasn't been my experience in the metro.

State income taxes are fairly low here, we offer tons of deductions and the interest I paid on my refinanced home at a higher interest rate, meant even larger deductions off my federal income which meant less income taxable by the state.

Just keeping him honest.

A simple thank you for me helping to support you and your home would suffice.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on January 12, 2013, 11:20:06 pm
I am ecstatic. Along with that increase in value came a corresponding increase in ad valorem tax. My point was that my real estate tax grew much faster than my state income tax. In fact, even though my house value declined since 2008, the property tax continued to rise. Sauer seems to think that state income taxes are a greater burden than property taxes in Oklahoma. Maybe in rural OK but that hasn't been my experience in the metro.

State income taxes are fairly low here, we offer tons of deductions and the interest I paid on my refinanced home at a higher interest rate, meant even larger deductions off my federal income which meant less income taxable by the state.

Just keeping him honest.

My point is that maybe you should have lost your house to increased taxes that you could not afford.  It's good for the city and state to get the increased revenue.  Never mind how long you may have lived there and how much you may have invested in your home.

I don't really wish you lost your home but at some point this crap about ever increasing home values and taxes has to stop.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on January 13, 2013, 08:49:38 am
I can't figure out why you are going on this path. Sauer made an unsupportable statement, which is common for him. Truth is, Texas is not cheaper to live in than OK and state income taxes in each state are not as onerous as property taxes.

My feelings about my increase in taxation on my home while its value declined is only a minor irritant to me as I understand that the city/state have obligations that increase regardless of the value of my home. Since a lot of tax revenues come from that source, they must adjust. I could always rent or live in an RV. It still hurts those who are on fixed incomes whose property taxes rise faster than their income.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on January 13, 2013, 01:39:09 pm
I can't figure out why you are going on this path. Sauer made an unsupportable statement, which is common for him. Truth is, Texas is not cheaper to live in than OK and state income taxes in each state are not as onerous as property taxes.
One of my friends has lived in both TX and OK and he says OK is a bit less expensive.  One thing our family noted when we moved here from PA in 1971 is that the standard of living is lower in OK than it was in PA when we moved.

It's always fun to pick out a tax or two and compare to another state. OK taxes pretty much everything.  Pick two things from TX, another two from KS or MO.....  When we moved from PA, sales tax in PA was not included in food, clothing, and prescription drugs.  Trips to the grocery store included knowing what items were taxable and putting them first so the adding machine type cash registers could make a subtotal of the taxable items before adding in the non-taxed items. I haven't checked PA taxes lately. 

The relative proportion of property tax to income tax gets messy when
Quote
State income taxes are fairly low here, we offer tons of deductions and the interest I paid on my refinanced home at a higher interest rate, meant even larger deductions off my federal income which meant less income taxable by the state.
What would that be like if your home was paid off?   What happens in several years when interest is less a part of your house payment?  Higher interest rate?  Do you not include what you pay to the bank as outgo?  Your interest deduction reduces your taxable income, not your tax one to one. You are still paying a large part of that interest out of your pocket.  Probably the only reason you came out "ahead" is that remaining payments are spread out over more years than before your refinance.   

Quote
My feelings about my increase in taxation on my home while its value declined is only a minor irritant to me as I understand that the city/state have obligations that increase regardless of the value of my home. Since a lot of tax revenues come from that source, they must adjust. I could always rent or live in an RV.
I would consider that a lot more than a minor irritant. Do you really think you don't pay property taxes when you rent? You don't pay directly but I'm sure they are included in the rent.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: sauerkraut on January 13, 2013, 02:13:48 pm
I lived in Texas for 10 years and found the standard of living higher in Texas  than in Oklahoma and  the cost of living is  lower in Texas- The everyday items are what count alot, gasoline is a few cents higher in Texas, but food in Texas  has no sales taxes, rents seem to be lower in Texas than in Oklahoma, and with no state income taxes the paychecks are bigger, At tax time the only 1040 tax forms you have to file are federal taxes. The Texas  climate is milder than in Oklahoma and you use less heat, homeowners insureance is lower in Texas- and as every home owner knows in Oklahoma the cost to insure your home is in orbit. Much of the costs all come out in the wash in the end, both states have a low cost of living comapired to other states, much depends on your life style and earnings. There are web sites that compair cities and compair cost of living data, but no two families are alike in their spending and tax bills. IMO Texas has the edge over Oklahoma because Texas has no state income taxes. I really hope Mary Fallin can get rid of Oklahoma's state income taxes they are regressive taxes and hurt the economy.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on January 13, 2013, 03:10:50 pm
I lived in Texas for 10 years and found the standard of living higher in Texas  than in Oklahoma and  the cost of living is  lower in Texas- The everyday items are what count alot, gasoline is a few cents higher in Texas, but food in Texas  has no sales taxes, rents seem to be lower in Texas than in Oklahoma, and with no state income taxes the paychecks are bigger, At tax time the only 1040 tax forms you have to file are federal taxes. The Texas  climate is milder than in Oklahoma and you use less heat, homeowners insureance is lower in Texas- and as every home owner knows in Oklahoma the cost to insure your home is in orbit. Much of the costs all come out in the wash in the end, both states have a low cost of living comapired to other states, much depends on your life style and earnings. There are web sites that compair cities and compair cost of living data, but no two families are alike in their spending and tax bills. IMO Texas has the edge over Oklahoma because Texas has no state income taxes. I really hope Mary Fallin can get rid of Oklahoma's state income taxes they are regressive taxes and hurt the economy.

For heaven's sake (and ours) move back there. Texas is a large, diverse state that could probably be divided up into south, north, east and west and make more sense. No way I want OK to be anything like them. Except for Austin maybe.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on January 13, 2013, 03:15:11 pm
One of my friends has lived in both TX and OK and he says OK is a bit less expensive.  One thing our family noted when we moved here from PA in 1971 is that the standard of living is lower in OK than it was in PA when we moved.

It's always fun to pick out a tax or two and compare to another state. OK taxes pretty much everything.  Pick two things from TX, another two from KS or MO.....  When we moved from PA, sales tax in PA was not included in food, clothing, and prescription drugs.  Trips to the grocery store included knowing what items were taxable and putting them first so the adding machine type cash registers could make a subtotal of the taxable items before adding in the non-taxed items. I haven't checked PA taxes lately. 

The relative proportion of property tax to income tax gets messy when  What would that be like if your home was paid off?   What happens in several years when interest is less a part of your house payment?  Higher interest rate?  Do you not include what you pay to the bank as outgo?  Your interest deduction reduces your taxable income, not your tax one to one. You are still paying a large part of that interest out of your pocket.  Probably the only reason you came out "ahead" is that remaining payments are spread out over more years than before your refinance.   
I would consider that a lot more than a minor irritant. Do you really think you don't pay property taxes when you rent? You don't pay directly but I'm sure they are included in the rent.


You must not have much to do this weekend. Tilting at windmills?

To cut to the chase, I don't intend to live in this home till its paid off. Rent reflects only a portion of property tax and I am not subject to a lien, foreclosure and penalties if I don't pay my rent. They just kick my butt out and ruin my credit! RV? Just unhook the black water and move along.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on January 13, 2013, 03:47:15 pm
You must not have much to do this weekend.
It's cold outside.  I notice you keep showing up here too.

Quote
Tilting at windmills?
Nah, just trying to keep you honest.

Quote
To cut to the chase, I don't intend to live in this home till its paid off.
I guess that's just another area where we have different goals in life. If you keep refinancing, you won't live long enough to pay off anything and you will be paying interest. If you want to pay a bank $x to avoid paying $x/4 in taxes, more power to you.

Quote
Rent reflects only a portion of property tax
It at least represents the building/land portion that you are renting.  I'm not sure about furnishings if you rent a furnished place.

Quote
and I am not subject to a lien, foreclosure and penalties if I don't pay my rent. They just kick my butt out and ruin my credit!
I'll give you this one.

Quote
RV? Just unhook the black water and move along.
I'm just not the nomadic type.  Travel is fun but I like a home base.  Well, it used to be fun before 9/11.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: nathanm on January 13, 2013, 04:23:18 pm
My SO's parents live in Florida, one of the no income tax states. Their property tax is presently about the same as what we pay in property tax and state income tax combined. Before the bubble burst, they were paying about 3 or 4 times what we pay in property tax and state income tax. Granted, that was on a ridiculous valuation, but it was reality in the sense that people were indeed buying houses in that neighborhood for around what the assessed value was.

The point being that they get their money one way or another.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 14, 2013, 04:24:53 pm

I'm just not the nomadic type.  Travel is fun but I like a home base.  Well, it used to be fun before 9/11.


Get an acreage, build a nice "barn" for maintenance/home base, then a nice RV that you can park on a pad near the "barn".

When in the area - home base.  When ready to travel, hook up and go.

I live a lot of the time in an RV, and hotels/motels and visiting family, PLUS home base.  Hate hotels/motels - even the best of them are either not at all, or questionably clean and in general are just disgusting.  By far and away, the best is the RV - get to sleep in my own bed "every night" and the taxes are very cheap.  Overall costs are also very cheap IF you are experienced and manage the operation carefully.  Plus the portability.

Home base is good except for all the maintenance and ongoing expense issues - huge drain.  Even if a house is paid off it is still expensive.  But tough to do the alternatives if there are kids around....

Maybe I will just become an extreme prepper and have a small cottage at ground level, above an old Nike missile base underground....hide the big pieces so the tax man don't see 'em.




Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on January 15, 2013, 11:12:08 am
TW FB post:

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY -- One of the most divisive issues of the 2012 legislative session apparently will be revisited this spring, with at least one "personhood" bill already filed.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 15, 2013, 12:27:48 pm
One of my friends has lived in both TX and OK and he says OK is a bit less expensive.  One thing our family noted when we moved here from PA in 1971 is that the standard of living is lower in OK than it was in PA when we moved.

I would consider that a lot more than a minor irritant. Do you really think you don't pay property taxes when you rent? You don't pay directly but I'm sure they are included in the rent.


I need just a touch of clarification - was it YOUR standard of living that was lower or the average observed you saw around you?  (If yours was lower, why would you - parents - ever move...??)


Property taxes are being paid by rent - few in that business (or any business!) will take a loss without some other offsetting benefit.  This is one of those things that falls between the cracks - Broken Arrow uses certain business renters as an excuse to jack up some fees they charge in town.  Their claim is that since the operator doesn't pay property taxes for infrastructure, then the fee makes up for it.  Except the rent DOES pay property taxes as a pass through to the landlord...and now ya get double taxation.






Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on January 23, 2013, 10:53:00 am
Oklahoma House Bill 1895 would cut Arts Council funding

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/state/oklahoma-house-bill-1895-would-cut-arts-council-funding (http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/state/oklahoma-house-bill-1895-would-cut-arts-council-funding)

(http://media2.kjrh.com//photo/2013/01/22/OAC_20130122174500_320_240.JPG)

Quote
TULSA - A bill filed by an Oklahoma state representative would eliminate state funding for the Oklahoma Arts Council within four years.

Filed Friday, HB 1895 would cut money appropriated to the Council by at least 25 percent every year until 2017.

Representative Josh Cockroft authored the bill and wrote about his proposal in a recent blog post.

"The question each of us must ask is if we are properly funding the core functions of state government," said Cockroft. " ... My goal is not to destroy the arts in Oklahoma, but rather to start a discussion of what our responsibilities are."

The sophomore representative estimates the measure would save Oklahoma around $4 million.

Cockroft cited an article published last March by the Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs, a state think tank, as the basis for the legislation.

Arts funding is not a "core function of government," wrote author Jonathan Small in the piece.

"The Arts Council can operate solely from donations and self-generated funds, without receiving state appropriations," said Small. "Promotion of the arts is a nonprofit interest, which should not be advantaged over other nonprofit efforts that do not receive state appropriations."

In response to the bill's filing, the Oklahoma Arts Council posted an impassioned plea to its supporters and called HB1895 "a challenge that will require thoughtful, strategic and well-timed communication between arts advocates and their individual legislators."

Oklahoma Arts Council Executive Director Jennifer McCollum also forecasted "the largest grassroots campaign for public funding for the arts in the Oklahoma Arts Council's nearly 50-year history."


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: TheArtist on January 23, 2013, 06:06:20 pm
Oklahoma House Bill 1895 would cut Arts Council funding

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/state/oklahoma-house-bill-1895-would-cut-arts-council-funding (http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/state/oklahoma-house-bill-1895-would-cut-arts-council-funding)

(http://media2.kjrh.com//photo/2013/01/22/OAC_20130122174500_320_240.JPG)


Aaaand here we go.  I hadn't responded to some of the responses to my response  :P concerning funding for repairing the old capitol building.   People were saying we should fix it because of things like "grandeur" and "history", its a "beautiful building" etc.  But the first thing I thought of was that the Republicans will be the first to cut things like the arts which are closely related to the above.  They will also say it's not up to government, but the private sector to decide what happens to old, historic buildings, we as citizens should have no say.  But anyway, here we go.  Cut 4 mill a year for art and ask for 200 mill to fix their fancy offices.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 24, 2013, 07:03:37 am
Oklahoma House Bill 1895 would cut Arts Council funding

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/state/oklahoma-house-bill-1895-would-cut-arts-council-funding (http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/state/oklahoma-house-bill-1895-would-cut-arts-council-funding)

(http://media2.kjrh.com//photo/2013/01/22/OAC_20130122174500_320_240.JPG)



Arts IS, by definition, part of the education process of a well rounded individual.  So, this is in keeping with the ignorance we see of the people we elect to the OK State legislature, and the continuing onslaught BY Oklahoma against education in general.  It is how they keep people voting for them based on their little sound bytes without knowing/understanding the background of an issue.  Related to that whole "no sense of history" I rant about from time to time... No appreciation of art.

Arts are a staple.  Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter.  Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind.


No surprise at all since we have uneducated, fragmented minds in the legislature.  Just SOP in Okie-land.


Had to use that "Artist"....it's just too good not to use.  (Also,... saw "The President's Lady" on TV several nights ago...can't remember which channel...)



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 12, 2013, 09:45:43 am
Oklahoma bill would restrict divorces

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-lawmakers-bill-would-restrict-divorces/article/3754596 (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-lawmakers-bill-would-restrict-divorces/article/3754596)

Quote
Promoting strong marriages is an “obvious” way to improve the health, education, public safety and economy in Oklahoma, Rep. Mark McCullough said Monday. McCullough is the author of House Bill 1548, which would not allow married couples to divorce on the grounds of incompatibility if there are minor children living in the home, if they have been married longer than 10 years or if either party objects. The bill is one of seven filed by legislators this year that would make it more difficult to divorce.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on February 12, 2013, 10:34:34 am
Quote
“We're not here to be a cold, we're not here to be a judge — we're here to say the more the family fails the more government has to get involved, and that's just the facts,” McCullough said.

So much for being a small government Republican or not wanting government intrusion, eh?

So you force two people who can't stand each other to stay married if there are minors in the house or they've been married over 10 years? Gee that might not lead to domestic violence or anything.  ::)

As far as the Senate bill requiring parenting classes if there are minors, Tulsa District Court already requires it.  Divorce itself does not lead to juvenile delinquency, stupid narcissistic parents do.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on February 14, 2013, 11:44:10 pm
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Citing concerns about an attempt by a Muslim organization to replace the U.S. Constitution with Islamic law, several Republican Oklahoma legislators have announced the creation of a counterterrorism caucus.

Republican state Rep. John Bennett of Sallisaw spearheaded a press conference on Thursday announcing the formation of the caucus.

Although Bennett described the group as bipartisan, no Democrats attended the press conference. The one Democratic representative Bennett cited as a member, Rep. Eric Proctor of Tulsa, said he was unsure of the purpose of the caucus.

A U.S. Marine Corps veteran who served in Afghanistan and Iraq, Bennett says he's primarily concerned with the possibility of the Muslim Brotherhood operating in Oklahoma. He also criticized the Council on American-Islamic Affairs, an advocacy group with an Oklahoma chapter.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 18, 2013, 10:55:47 am
National conservative group's 'model legislation' ends up becoming law in Oklahoma

‘Stand Your Ground' law and Voter ID derive from national group's suggested legislation

http://newsok.com/national-conservative-groups-model-legislation-ends-up-becoming-law-in-oklahoma/article/3756210/?page=1 (http://newsok.com/national-conservative-groups-model-legislation-ends-up-becoming-law-in-oklahoma/article/3756210/?page=1)

Quote
A national organization criticized recently for churning out prewritten bills to state legislatures across the country has been a platform for some of the more controversial laws passed in Oklahoma in recent years.


“Model legislation” developed by the American Legislative Exchange Council or shared through conferences the council has hosted, played a part in a 2006 “Stand Your Ground” law that allows Oklahomans to use deadly force when threatened in public places, a 2010 resolution that prohibits any law from compelling a person to purchase health care and a state question that same year that requires voters to show an identification card before receiving a ballot.

Several laws under consideration now — including bills that allow for covenant marriages, that would challenge the teaching of global warming and evolution in public schools and that would reject key provisions of the new federal health care law — have identical versions that have either been passed or are also under consideration in GOP-led legislatures elsewhere.

“That's somebody out of state telling Oklahoma how we want our laws enacted and what we want,” said Richard Lerblance, a former Democratic Senator from Hartshorne. “It's not necessarily coming from the people in Oklahoma; it's coming from out of state.”

The council was among several national groups that advised Gov. Mary Fallin in 2011 to resist development of a state health insurance exchange, a primary tenet of the new federal health care law.

Other “model legislation” made available through the council, according to its website, includes ones that would reduce personal income taxes for residents — a top legislative priority this year for Fallin as well as the Oklahoma Senate and House of Representatives.

The authors of all seven bills filed to reduce the personal income tax said they were not influenced by the legislative exchange council also known as ALEC in drafting the bill language.

“As the author of most tax cut bills we had last year, I didn't have one meeting with ALEC,” said Sen. Clark Jolley, R-Edmond. “My bills are my bills.”

A spokesman for the council was unable on Friday to provide a directory of Oklahoma lawmakers who currently pay membership dues, but directories from previous years indicate at least 25 state lawmakers, mostly Republican, have participated in previous conferences.

Gov. Mary Fallin was chosen as the council's “Legislator of the Year” in 1993, when she represented Oklahoma in the U.S. House of Representatives. The council will host its spring summit in Oklahoma City this May.

Insurance exchange

Emails provided to The Oklahoman earlier this month indicate a policy adviser for the council offered assistance to the state's Insurance Department in scrapping plans for a health exchange in 2011, but Fallin's spokesman, Alex Weintz, said the organization played no role in her decision to return $54 million in federal grants earmarked for exchange development.

“ALEC is a conservative organization, and Gov. Fallin is a conservative governor, so it is possible there is overlap in their agendas,” Weintz said. “Gov. Fallin's agenda was drafted without the help or input of ALEC.”

Oklahoma lawmakers who participate in council functions, and who sign their name to bills promoted by the council, said it's a common way for states to share resources and experiences.

Rep. Sally Kern, R-Oklahoma City, said the council is but one of several national organizations where she goes to learn about what other states are doing to tackle problems also experienced in Oklahoma.

A bill that would give teachers the right to present the “scientific strengths and weaknesses of existing scientific theories” such as global warming and evolution — authored by Kern two years ago and re-presented this session by Rep. Gus Blackwell, R-Laverne — is identical in language to bills recently passed in Louisiana, Texas, South Dakota and Tennessee.

“If one state has passed the bill and that bill has been found to be workable and has not been challenged by the court then you try to use that same bill,” Kern said. “They give us the model legislation and we give that model legislation to our staff and the staff looks at it and then they tweak it to fit in with existing laws that Oklahoma already has.”

It's the same process by which Oklahoma legislators have proposed deregulating environmental protection programs and a bill that requires drug testing for people who subscribe to welfare assistance.

“More eyes on a bill makes for better legislation,” said Bill Meierling, the council's senior director of public affairs. “Just because a model policy has been adopted by (the council) doesn't mean that policy is taken at large and pushed upon the people of Oklahoma. Instead, a legislator may find a piece, a ‘whereas clause' in our model policy, and say that makes sense.”

The council has come under fire lately for furthering the “Stand Your Ground” and voter ID laws in other states, but most of the criticism comes from those who complain it gives corporate interests unfettered access to lawmakers.

“What it really is a lot of, you know, ideologically right-wing and corporate entities who are pushing policies that help their bottom line,” said Gene Perry, policy analyst for the Oklahoma Policy Institute in Tulsa. “It's giving them access to lawmakers, and it's not really always clear where the idea's coming from or what's really behind it.”

For example, lawmakers who developed a template for “virtual school” bills at a recent council function did so at the same table as the private vendors who provide such services, part of the council's Education Task Force.

Rep. Ann Coody, R-Lawton, is chair of that task force and Sen. Gary Stanislawski, R-Tulsa, is an alternate member. A Virginia-based company called K12 — which already provides virtual learning programs on a limited basis in Oklahoma — is a co-chair of the task force.

Stanislawski, who could not be reached Thursday and Friday, has filed a bill this year that would provide a more expansive virtual learning program through the state Education Department for vendors such as K12.

“This idea that corporations impose their wills on legislators is kind of unfair to legislators,” Meierling said. “Those legislators are the stopgap to make sure whatever legislation is enacted is representative of the people, and in fact the democratic process ensures if they don't they won't be in office anymore.”

He said though the council drafts legislation through a public-private partnership, model bills developed through the committees are proposed, adopted and voted on by the public sector participants only.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: DTowner on February 18, 2013, 04:15:54 pm
National conservative group's 'model legislation' ends up becoming law in Oklahoma

‘Stand Your Ground' law and Voter ID derive from national group's suggested legislation

http://newsok.com/national-conservative-groups-model-legislation-ends-up-becoming-law-in-oklahoma/article/3756210/?page=1 (http://newsok.com/national-conservative-groups-model-legislation-ends-up-becoming-law-in-oklahoma/article/3756210/?page=1)

Not sure I see why this is an issue or a cause for concern.  Numerous groups of all ideological/political persuasions draft model legislation for use by state legislators.  It is a way to get a better drafted end product (from a technical legislative drafting standpoint) and often results is more uniformity in laws among states.  Would you prefer that non-lawyer legislators, overworked legislative staff or lobbyist draft the bills (which also happens)?  The far bigger problem is the late night amendments hours before the close of the session that almost no one sees before voting.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 18, 2013, 04:22:35 pm
Not sure I see why this is an issue or a cause for concern.  Numerous groups of all ideological/political persuasions draft model legislation for use by state legislators.  It is a way to get a better drafted end product (from a technical legislative drafting standpoint) and often results is more uniformity in laws among states.  Would you prefer that non-lawyer legislators, overworked legislative staff or lobbyist draft the bills (which also happens)?  The far bigger problem is the late night amendments hours before the close of the session that almost no one sees before voting.

Take whatever you get from the article.  Whether you agree with the practice or not, it's what happens.  It won't change.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: nathanm on February 18, 2013, 04:27:46 pm
The far bigger problem is the late night amendments hours before the close of the session that almost no one sees before voting.

That is also a problem, yes.

BTW, lobbyist-written and ALEC-written are one and the same. The only difference is who the lobbyist passes it to once they're done. So yes, I would prefer our overworked legislative staff draft the bill. Actually, I'd prefer we have enough legislative staff that they not be overworked.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: DTowner on February 19, 2013, 02:31:08 pm
That is also a problem, yes.

BTW, lobbyist-written and ALEC-written are one and the same. The only difference is who the lobbyist passes it to once they're done. So yes, I would prefer our overworked legislative staff draft the bill. Actually, I'd prefer we have enough legislative staff that they not be overworked.

I was probably too vague by what I meant when I said overworked.  Like most states, Oklahoma's legislative session lasts only a few months.  During the session and the few months prior is when most bills are drafted.  It is not realistic for Oklahoma to have sufficient legislative staff or staff with sufficient breadth and depth of knowledge for the wide array of issues on which bills are drafted in a relatively short timeframe.

When I worked for a committee with the U.S. House of Representatives I often felt overwhelmed by the variety of issues I had assigned to me.  That led to a number of late nights with Congressional Research Service staffers learning about an area that was new to me.  I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to be a legislative staffer at the state level with a lot more areas to cover, less support resources with which to do it and a short window when all the action happens.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: nathanm on February 19, 2013, 04:09:36 pm
I don't think the solution is to just use whatever the lobbyists can get into an ALEC package.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 21, 2013, 10:04:55 am
Oklahoma Senate panel approves bond debt limit

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-02-20/oklahoma-senate-panel-approves-bond-debt-limit (http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-02-20/oklahoma-senate-panel-approves-bond-debt-limit)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — An Oklahoma state senator convinced an appropriations committee Wednesday that the state should amend its constitution to limit how much it can borrow by issuing bonds, even as legislators face a crumbling Capitol and other potential state projects that could cost hundreds of millions of dollars.

The Senate Committee on Appropriations approved a proposal from Sen. Josh Brecheen, R-Coalgate, that would cap each year's debt service payments, which are essentially interest payments to people who hold state bonds. In practice, Brecheen's plan would put a limit on how many bonds the state could sell each year to fund major public projects.

Interest in potential state bond issues rose after Gov. Mary Fallin called for repairs to the Capitol, estimated to cost more than $150 million, in her State of the State address earlier this month. But many of her fellow Republicans, who control both houses of the state legislature, have been reluctant to pursue the costly idea.

Brecheen told the committee a limit could address those concerns.

"Many of us would possibly change our minds on issuance of new debt if we knew there was some limit," he said.

The proposal would ask Oklahoma voters to decide whether to limit the state's annual debt service payments to 4.5 percent of the previous five years' average general revenue. The bill also would allow the Legislature to declare emergencies and take on more debt.

At the moment, Oklahoma's annual debt service payments total less than $200 million, or about 3.4 percent of the latest revenue average, State Bond Advisor Jim Joseph told The Associated Press. Those payments come from roughly $1.5 billion in tax-supported debt, he said.

Several committee members asked if the limit would allow for the Capitol repairs, which many politicians see as increasingly necessary.

Joseph told the committee the state could safely issue $500 million more in bonds under the proposed limit — more than enough to fund Capitol repairs and complete other state projects, including a pop culture museum in Tulsa and the still-unfinished American Indian Cultural Center and Museum in Oklahoma City.

"That's just a ballpark figure they could use in planning," Joseph later told the AP.

The bill now heads to the full Senate for consideration.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on March 10, 2013, 11:48:22 pm
Oklahoma is on the verge of becoming a final destination for sick and unwanted horses.

Bills before the house and senate would allow horses to be slaughtered here, which would likely result in the importation of infectious equine diseases (and the end of any horse shows, once their contracts are up).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK-Qibd277k&gclid=CMSFye3587UCFSmoPAodCXkAbg  [/youtube]


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on March 11, 2013, 08:20:28 am
Oklahoma is on the verge of becoming a final destination for sick and unwanted horses.

Bills before the house and senate would allow horses to be slaughtered here, which would likely result in the importation of infectious equine diseases (and the end of any horse shows, once their contracts are up).

I really hope they don't take another positive thing and turn it into death and disease.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on March 11, 2013, 10:22:43 am
I really hope they don't take another positive thing and turn it into death and disease.

Where was the positive thing?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on March 11, 2013, 10:26:34 am
Where was the positive thing?

Horse shows.  At least people smile there.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on March 11, 2013, 10:45:35 am
Horse shows.  At least people smile there.

Im sure the horse groups will fulfill their contracts to have their shows in the state, and as soon as they are up, relocate to a state that doesnt have infectious horses being imported by the truckload.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on March 11, 2013, 10:50:58 am
Im sure the horse groups will fulfill their contracts to have their shows in the state, and as soon as they are up, relocate to a state that doesnt have infectious horses being imported by the truckload.

Getting stuck in traffic behind a semi full of condemned horses will be a hoot to explain to the kids.

"Yes kids, they do look horrible, malnourished and ill-treated but they'll soon be part of your school's lunch program so it's okay."


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 11, 2013, 03:59:16 pm
I can hardly wait to see what Betty Crocker calls the new "Horseburger Helper" product....



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on March 14, 2013, 10:01:49 am
House approves national health care law “nullification” bill, draws criticism

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-house-approves-national-health-care-law-nullification-bill-draws-criticism/article/3765464 (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-house-approves-national-health-care-law-nullification-bill-draws-criticism/article/3765464)

Quote
House Democrats criticized a bill Wednesday seeking to prevent enforcement of the national health care law as a political statement, meaningless and a waste of time. House Bill 1021, which also would have the Legislature declare the Affordable Care Act as not being authorized by the U.S. Constitution, easily passed the Republican-controlled House of Representatives mostly along party lines 72-20. It now goes to the Senate. Rep. Kay Floyd, D-Oklahoma City, said voting for the measure could be a violation of lawmakers’ oaths to uphold the state and federal constitutions. The U.S. Supreme Court last year upheld the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on December 12, 2013, 01:21:24 pm
Legislator Proposes Tests for Elected Officials

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201311/Quinn%2C_Marty.jpg)

http://kwgs.com/post/legislator-proposes-tests-elected-officials (http://kwgs.com/post/legislator-proposes-tests-elected-officials)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Elected officials, including state legislators, would have to pass a test indicating their basic knowledge of the office they hold under a plan being proposed by a state lawmaker.

Claremore Republican Rep. Marty Quinn is hosting an interim study Thursday to discuss his idea of improving training requirements for elected county officials, including testing requirements.

Quinn says many professionals in Oklahoma are required to be certified, including hair stylists, teachers, plumbers and restaurant workers. He says it only makes sense that elected officials, including legislators, to be properly trained in their area of work. He says it's particularly important for elected officials to understand matters of public finance.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on December 12, 2013, 02:33:50 pm
It would be hilarious if Quinn were the first one to fail the test.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: guido911 on December 27, 2013, 11:22:10 pm
This would improve Oklahoma's standing:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-27/moguls-rent-south-dakota-addresses-to-dodge-taxes-forever.html


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on January 14, 2014, 04:43:32 pm
Oklahoma's Ban On Gay Marriage Ruled Unconstitutional

http://kwgs.com/post/oklahomas-ban-gay-marriage-ruled-unconstitutional (http://kwgs.com/post/oklahomas-ban-gay-marriage-ruled-unconstitutional)

Quote
Oklahoma's ban on same sex marriage is illegal, so say a federal court judge. U.S. District Court Judge Terence Kern issued the ruling today. Kern is a justice in the Northern District of Oklahoma, based in Tulsa.

His ruling does not immediately clear the way for same sex marriages in Oklahoma. We are gathering reaction to the story and more information.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on January 14, 2014, 04:45:29 pm
Oklahoma's Ban On Gay Marriage Ruled Unconstitutional

http://kwgs.com/post/oklahomas-ban-gay-marriage-ruled-unconstitutional (http://kwgs.com/post/oklahomas-ban-gay-marriage-ruled-unconstitutional)


Uh oh, I already hear heads exploding...


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on January 27, 2014, 02:47:14 pm
Seemed like the place to post this  ::)

In addition to such stellar thinking like open carry for everyone with no permit and outlawing marriage altogether to try and prevent people from getting gay married, now there’s these measures regarding divorce and trying to keep families together via gubmint intervention, in spite of plenty of data which suggests divorce prevention initiatives are failures, at least in Oklahoma:

Quote
MUSKOGEE — An Oklahoma state representative has filed a bill that would increase the waiting period for most Oklahoma couples seeking a divorce.

Rep. Arthur Hulbert, R-Fort Gibson, said the measure is aimed at reducing Oklahoma's divorce rate, which is the second-highest in the country, the Muskogee Phoenix reported (http://bit.ly/1hEehKh ). His measure, filed in advance of the legislative session that begins Feb. 3, calls for a six-month waiting period for most divorces.

"I feel like we have a bill that will help strengthen families and give them time to rethink reconciliation," Hulbert said. "I believe marriages have value, and I think society only benefits if we strengthen the family."

Hulbert said his bill would include exemptions for adultery and cases in which an individual is convicted of child abuse or domestic abuse. The measure also includes exceptions for abandonment, extreme cruelty and habitual drunkenness.

But some researchers question whether lengthening the waiting period would have a positive effect.

Stephanie Coontz, research and public education director for the Council on Contemporary Families, said states that ease divorce laws see a drop in domestic violence and suicide rates among wives.

"So, when you think about trying to reverse the ease of divorce, you may be incurring some real risks," Coontz said. This could be more true "in times of economic stress, which do tend to increase domestic violence," she said.

Muskogee County District Judge Mike Norman said he has no problem with a longer waiting period, especially when children are involved, even if it imposes economic hardship on the divorcing parties.

"The worst part of my job is deciding the fate of minor children," he said, adding that he's only had one case in which a couple reconciled before their marriage was dissolved.

Hulbert's bill isn't the only divorce measure this session. Another bill, filed by Republican Rep. Sean Roberts of Hominy, would eliminate incompatibility as grounds for divorce.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-rep-files-bill-aimed-at-curbing-divorce-rate/article/3927716


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on January 27, 2014, 02:50:57 pm
There's a waiting period to get a divorce? What's the waiting period to buy a gun?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


Title: Re:
Post by: Hoss on January 27, 2014, 02:53:21 pm
There's a waiting period to get a divorce? What's the waiting period to buy a gun?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Last time I did?  About 8 minutes.


Title: Re:
Post by: Gaspar on January 27, 2014, 03:52:30 pm
Last time I did?  About 8 minutes.

Outrage!  You gotta get to know your gun dealer better.


Title: Re:
Post by: Hoss on January 27, 2014, 04:04:12 pm
Outrage!  You gotta get to know your gun dealer better.

It was the wait on the phone that was 8 minutes.  He had my forms ready before I got to the door.  :)


Title: Re:
Post by: Red Arrow on January 27, 2014, 06:05:43 pm
It was the wait on the phone that was 8 minutes.  He had my forms ready before I got to the door.  :)

8 minutes for a divorce.  Way to go.
 


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on January 28, 2014, 09:58:30 am
Filed Bill Would Defund Oklahoma Arts Council

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201401/Arts_Council.jpg)

http://kwgs.com/post/filed-bill-would-defund-oklahoma-arts-council (http://kwgs.com/post/filed-bill-would-defund-oklahoma-arts-council)

Quote
State lawmakers will consider a bill this session that would completely defund the Oklahoma Arts Council in four years.

The bill calls on the arts council to replace its state funding with private funding.

"If you've got XYZ arts organization over here requesting a grant or corporate support from a big company, then you would have the arts council also asking for that support," said Jennifer James, director of Oklahomans for the Arts, an advocacy group supporting the state arts council. "It would dilute the pot of money that's already out there."

The arts council currently gets $4 million from the state, which makes up 85 percent of its budget. If passed, House Bill 2850 would take away state appropriations for the council in 25 percent chunks of its current funding. By 2018, the state would no longer give money to the arts council.

James said that would endanger the entire state's arts culture.

"We are not in a position to be able to compete with states that are much older than we are and that have had philharmonics and symphonies and ballets and opera houses and festivals for three and 400 years," James said. "We are a young state, and we are a poor state."

A study commissioned by the arts council says the arts have a $315 million economic impact in Oklahoma. Most of the council's work is dedicated to giving grants and helping arts organizations find funding.


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on January 28, 2014, 10:42:22 am
So if this passes, you'd have to wait for three days to get a divorce. But if you want to shoot her, it's 8 minutes tops. That's sensible.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


Title: Re:
Post by: Conan71 on January 28, 2014, 11:24:23 am
So if this passes, you'd have to wait for three days to get a divorce. But if you want to shoot her, it's 8 minutes tops. That's sensible.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Pretty well sums it up, Ed.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 28, 2014, 11:38:37 am
Filed Bill Would Defund Oklahoma Arts Council

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201401/Arts_Council.jpg)

http://kwgs.com/post/filed-bill-would-defund-oklahoma-arts-council (http://kwgs.com/post/filed-bill-would-defund-oklahoma-arts-council)


This one statement really sticks out........
Quote
"We are not in a position to be able to compete with states that are much older than we are and that have had philharmonics and symphonies and ballets and opera houses and festivals for three and 400 years," James said. "We are a young state, and we are a poor state."

How many United States were there between 1614 and 1714?

http://kwgs.com/post/filed-bill-would-defund-oklahoma-arts-council (http://kwgs.com/post/filed-bill-would-defund-oklahoma-arts-council)



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on January 28, 2014, 11:43:02 am
This one statement really sticks out........
How many United States were there between 1614 and 1714?

http://kwgs.com/post/filed-bill-would-defund-oklahoma-arts-council (http://kwgs.com/post/filed-bill-would-defund-oklahoma-arts-council)



The ignorance coming from the Ok Legislature takes your breath away...


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 28, 2014, 11:56:11 am
The ignorance coming from the Ok Legislature takes your breath away...

Must be that modern history class that I did not take, just like the modern math I skipped.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on January 28, 2014, 12:23:30 pm
This one statement really sticks out........
How many United States were there between 1614 and 1714?

http://kwgs.com/post/filed-bill-would-defund-oklahoma-arts-council (http://kwgs.com/post/filed-bill-would-defund-oklahoma-arts-council)



All I could find:

http://www.jamestownohiooperahouse.com/website__opera_house_history.pdf (http://www.jamestownohiooperahouse.com/website__opera_house_history.pdf)

Quote
The Playhouse in Williamsburg, Virginia, is commonly believed to be the first "opera house"
in America. Although date of construction is unknown, most scholars of opera and theater history
assign a date of 1722.

Now festivals?  I guess those could be dated to when the first fun folks got to the colonies.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 28, 2014, 12:38:07 pm
Oldest Philharmonic, New York Philharmonic 1842

http://nyphil.org/history/main/overview (http://nyphil.org/history/main/overview)

Oldest Ballet Company, San Francisco 1933

http://www.sfballet.org/about/history (http://www.sfballet.org/about/history)

Oldest Symphony Orchestra, St. Louis Choral-Symphony 1880

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_Symphony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_Symphony)



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on January 28, 2014, 12:41:14 pm
Oldest Philharmonic, New York Philharmonic 1842

http://nyphil.org/history/main/overview (http://nyphil.org/history/main/overview)

Oldest Ballet Company, San Francisco 1933

http://www.sfballet.org/about/history (http://www.sfballet.org/about/history)

Oldest Symphony Orchestra, St. Louis Choral-Symphony 1880

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_Symphony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_Symphony)



Time travel


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 28, 2014, 12:44:05 pm
Time travel

Yeah, I suppose. They got lost using "The Time Tunnel"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060036/?ref_=nv_sr_1 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060036/?ref_=nv_sr_1)



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 28, 2014, 02:38:32 pm
The ignorance coming from the Ok Legislature takes your breath away...


True.  But that was not a quote from one of them.  It was from the director of the Oklahomans for the Arts.   **Sigh**

No sense of history....


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 11, 2014, 12:10:07 pm
I'm pretty sure there's some mental retardation going on here.

Abortion Bills Set for Hearing in House Committee

http://kwgs.com/post/abortion-bills-set-hearing-house-committee (http://kwgs.com/post/abortion-bills-set-hearing-house-committee)

(http://kwgs.com/sites/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201402/Mike_Ritze.jpg)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Two bills to further restrict abortion in Oklahoma are scheduled for a hearing in a state House committee.

The House Public Health Committee is expected to consider both bills during its regular meeting on Tuesday.

One bill by Broken Arrow Republican Rep. Mike Ritze would require abortion providers to have clinical privileges at a hospital within 30 miles of their practice. A second bill by Edmond Republican Rep. Randy Grau restricts the use of abortion inducing drugs.

Supporters of the bills say they're designed to protect the health of women who have an abortion in Oklahoma. Opponents argue the bills would make it more difficult for a woman to have an abortion.

What's budgeted to do this over and over?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on February 11, 2014, 12:46:18 pm
I'm pretty sure there's some mental retardation going on here.

Abortion Bills Set for Hearing in House Committee
What's budgeted to do this over and over?

When you are a career politician with fistfuls of tax dollars, you just drunkenly stagger between the "Abortion / War On Drugs / Repeal Obamacare" trifecta.

There's hope, though
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=LLugBAe7NwM[/youtube]


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on February 11, 2014, 01:17:28 pm
I'm pretty sure there's some mental retardation going on here.


(http://kwgs.com/sites/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201402/Mike_Ritze.jpg)


Ritze does look a little special.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 11, 2014, 06:13:44 pm
On abortion: 

I wish abortion opponents would just be honest.  "We want to stop abortions in the State of Oklahoma and feel that this is a legal way of further eroding that right."  POOF! Integrity.

0.3%  (that's 3/1000) women can experience a "complication" during a legal abortion.  A small fraction of those would need to be admitted to a hospital.  A root canal has a 5% complication rate.

Why no admitting requirements for doctors who perform root canals?  Or laparoscopic surgeries on kidneys, colons, stomachs?  For that matter, any and all outpatient surgeries?

Of course because this proposed law has nothing to do with health of women.  It is simply about finding a work around to a women's right to have an abortion if she so chooses.  The anti-abortion groups have conferences and websites, this is the latest strategy (see Texas, Alabama, Tennessee, Wisconsin...).  They should just print the pamphlet and save some time discussing it.   If you need admitting privileges to do any kind of procedures, so be it.  Otherwise, its just so much hot air.

The highest risk factor for an abortion?  Whether or not the procedure is performed legally.  So making it illegal is NOT for the women's health. 

Also, as an aside... restrictive abortion laws do not limit the number of abortions performed.  Most restrictive regions:  29/100k in Latin America.  32/100k in Africa.    More liberal regions:  USA  17/100k.  Europe 12/100k.  Statistics show prosperity, education, effective birth control/family planning, and social services for single mothers are the best ways to prevent abortions.   Why do we keep doing what has NOT been correlated with success instead of focusing on things that HAVE been correlated with success on our stated goal (a goal which few disagree with).


On the Kill the Arts bill:

I heard a rep from the Oklahoma Arts Council speak and she gave a very good argument tailored for an Oklahoma audience.  Essentially, every dollar given by the government attracts many MORE dollars (she gave a number, it was a multiplier of 3, 4, 5, 12?) from the private sector to support Oklahoma artists, communities, and economies.  Her focus was not really on the essential nature of art, the enduring benefits, or that art is correlated with culture, education, and prosperity. 

But really it is just liberal hacks who want to support the arts.  We can cut taxes by another 0.00005% if we kill the arts off!  Stupid liberals.  Like these guys:

“The Arts and Sciences, essential to the prosperity of the State and to the ornament of human life, have a primary claim to the encouragement of every lover of his country and mankind.”
–George Washington

 “I must study politics and war, that my sons may study mathematics and philosophy…in order to give their children the right to study painting, poetry, music and architecture.”
–John Q. Adams

"We have art in order not to die of the truth."
-Friedrich Nietzsche

Even Lincoln decided to continue funding architecture projects and planned art expansions on the capital grounds during the civil war.

The state wants to cut infrastructure spending, education, and the meager budget for the arts...  what the hell is our state trying to accomplish?  If our goal is to simply be the most ineffective government, the smallest government, or the most conservative - march fourth!  But if we are trying to IMPROVE our state and those that live in it, this course of action isn't going to help.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 11, 2014, 10:20:21 pm

“The Arts and Sciences, essential to the prosperity of the State and to the ornament of human life, have a primary claim to the encouragement of every lover of his country and mankind.”
–George Washington

 “I must study politics and war, that my sons may study mathematics and philosophy…in order to give their children the right to study painting, poetry, music and architecture.”
–John Q. Adams

"We have art in order not to die of the truth."
-Friedrich Nietzsche

Even Lincoln decided to continue funding architecture projects and planned art expansions on the capital grounds during the civil war.

The state wants to cut infrastructure spending, education, and the meager budget for the arts...  what the hell is our state trying to accomplish?  If our goal is to simply be the most ineffective government, the smallest government, or the most conservative - march fourth!  But if we are trying to IMPROVE our state and those that live in it, this course of action isn't going to help.




I know you have seen/heard all the studies - and seen examples of it here - where the more uneducated the populace is, the more conservative it is.  Well documented truth.  That IS the goal - to be the most conservative/ignorant state we can possibly be.

Improving the state would mean spending money - NOT cutting taxes for your rich buddies (ala Mary Failin').  Her latest dissemination goes to the "extra" $50 million she is proposing for common education (K thru 12)...which takes about $45 million away from higher education....colleges where people get trained for all those jobs her policies are attracting!!  Oh,....wait...

While trying to keep everyone from remembering that her and her buddies have CUT about $200 million from education (all kinds) in the last few years. 

You're doing fine Oklahoma...  Oklahoma, OK!   Not great, exceptional, extraordinary, or even very good!   Doin' Ok....!!






Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: TheArtist on February 11, 2014, 10:30:21 pm
 Ok color me ignorant of how this taxes stuff works but, if the state cuts taxes by X%, couldn't we as a city or county then raise taxes by X% and then spend that on education and arts (cutting out the middle man in OKC, cutting out the "we have to go to OKC to fight for our fair share and often getting gypped out of it" parts) ?   I mean, those education and arts dollars that come from the state to Tulsa, actually came from Tulsa in the first place right?  As far as I am concerned they could cut state government down to only what is absolutely necessary, the things that a city or county by itself can't do, and let cobwebs grow in that dome there in OKC and bring some of those bureaucracy jobs back here to Tulsa if we want. 


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 11, 2014, 10:42:36 pm
Ok color me ignorant of how this taxes stuff works but, if the state cuts taxes by X%, couldn't we as a city or county then raise taxes by X% and then spend that on education and arts (cutting out the middle man in OKC, cutting out the "we have to go to OKC to fight for our fair share and often getting gypped out of it" parts) ?   I mean, those education and arts dollars that come from the state to Tulsa, actually came from Tulsa in the first place right?  As far as I am concerned they could cut state government down to only what is absolutely necessary, the things that a city or county by itself can't do, and let cobwebs grow in that dome there in OKC and bring some of those bureaucracy jobs back here to Tulsa if we want. 

We can.  I was looking more at schools, roads, infrastructure in general.  Maybe some high speed rail...??

Have some family in Greece and Italy now.  They took a ride on the train and there was a display in the car showing it's speed.... 184 mph.  Said that it "pops" their ears when they go into a tunnel....




Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 11, 2014, 11:21:05 pm
Ok color me ignorant of how this taxes stuff works but, if the state cuts taxes by X%, couldn't we as a city or county then raise taxes by X% and then spend that on education and arts (cutting out the middle man in OKC, cutting out the "we have to go to OKC to fight for our fair share and often getting gypped out of it" parts) ?   I mean, those education and arts dollars that come from the state to Tulsa, actually came from Tulsa in the first place right?  As far as I am concerned they could cut state government down to only what is absolutely necessary, the things that a city or county by itself can't do, and let cobwebs grow in that dome there in OKC and bring some of those bureaucracy jobs back here to Tulsa if we want. 

Who will you convince to run on a "raise your taxes" platform?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 11, 2014, 11:22:53 pm
Who will you convince to run on a "raise your taxes" platform?


You mean like the sales job we get on sales taxes - "it's just a penny, for a "limited" time...."





Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 12, 2014, 03:32:23 pm
William:

Corporate, income, and commodity taxes are collected by the state.  Tulsa does not get money from those streams.  We would have to raise property or sales taxes - a different ball of wax.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: TheArtist on February 12, 2014, 05:35:15 pm
William:

Corporate, income, and commodity taxes are collected by the state.  Tulsa does not get money from those streams.  We would have to raise property or sales taxes - a different ball of wax.

If Conservatives are for "keeping things as local as possible" and want less Federal and State government meddling then it would seem logical for cities to have the power to levy corporate, income and commodity taxes if the people of those cities want, or if they don't want.  We fund TCC locally and its one of the largest Community Colleges around.  If the state cuts taxes we pay to them and then cuts funding for Universities, then the cities or counties should be allowed to raise taxes and fund Universities if they so choose.  A conservative state should also not want to be in the position of telling us what Universities we can or can not have in Tulsa for instance and what programs we can have or fund at those Universities, etc.  


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 12, 2014, 05:58:30 pm
Several problems William.

TCC is not entirely locally funded.  Here is the latest funding for TCC:
34.4% local
32% state
31.6 % tuition and fees
2% grants

For what its worth:  The State of Oklahoma has a $7.1 BILLION budget.  $1844 for every man, woman and child in the State.  That money is collected from many sources and used for many things.  Even a small portion towards the arts makes a huge difference.  Tulsa has a $713 Million dollar budget ($1809 per citizen).  Of which $26 million (3.5%) goes to cover art, parks, and recreation.  We will happily kick in $400,000,000 to fund roads, but getting money for the arts is a fight.  Locally or otherwise. 

Government in the United States has taken a top down approach.  The Federal Government collects a ton of money, and trickles some back down the states (this works out well for poor states), and the states collect money and trickle some back down to local governments (this works out well for unpopulated areas).  The game is to fight for those scraps.

Funding local Universities would be an utter disaster.  Public Universities are for the betterment of the ENTIRE STATE, not the local area.  If OU graduates all stayed in Norman, good for Norman... bad for Oklahoma. 

That said, Oklahoma is busy destroying higher education as fast as we can:
Tuition:  227mil
Athletic Revenue: 64mil
Federal: 55mil
Student Housing Revenue: 51mil
Private Grants: 23 mil
Sales/Enterprise:21 mil
State of Oklahoma: 21 mil
http://www.ou.edu/controller/fss/dwnload/2012_fs.pdf

Yep.  Education is important.  So long as we can cut taxes and don't have to invest in it.  So I guess OU is basically self funded (less than 5% state funded).  Hell, lets sell the naming rights at that point.

What were we talking about again?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 14, 2014, 02:32:54 pm

That said, Oklahoma is busy destroying higher education as fast as we can:
Tuition:  227mil
Athletic Revenue: 64mil
Federal: 55mil
Student Housing Revenue: 51mil
Private Grants: 23 mil
Sales/Enterprise:21 mil
State of Oklahoma: 21 mil
http://www.ou.edu/controller/fss/dwnload/2012_fs.pdf

Yep.  Education is important.  So long as we can cut taxes and don't have to invest in it.  So I guess OU is basically self funded (less than 5% state funded).  Hell, lets sell the naming rights at that point.

What were we talking about again?



I'm a little confused - page 14 - state appropriations for non-operating revenues ($144 million) - is that capital improvement stuff, or what?  I guess I'm not getting the difference between operating versus non-operating in this context....





Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 25, 2014, 12:33:01 pm
Okies don't need to science.

I'm guessing it's been determined that there will be no more embryo eating again.

State House Approves Embryonic Stem Cell Ban

http://kwgs.com/post/state-house-approves-embryonic-stem-cell-ban (http://kwgs.com/post/state-house-approves-embryonic-stem-cell-ban)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A bill that makes it a felony crime to conduct certain types of embryonic stem cell research in Oklahoma has been overwhelmingly approved in the House, despite concerns it sends the wrong message to the nation's research community.

The Oklahoma House voted 73-14 for the Protection of Human Life Act of 2013. The measure prohibits "nontherapeutic research" that destroys a fertilized human egg. Although the bill specifically exempts embryo transfers connected with in vitro fertilization, it is being opposed by the Oklahoma State Medical Association.

OSMA spokesman Wes Glinsmann says the bill raises a "troubling precedent for future research."

The author of the bill, El Reno Republican Rep. Dan Fisher, says he believes life begins at conception and ending that life is murder.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on February 25, 2014, 12:36:42 pm
Okies don't need to science.

I'm guessing it's been determined that there will be no more embryo eating again.

State House Approves Embryonic Stem Cell Ban

http://kwgs.com/post/state-house-approves-embryonic-stem-cell-ban (http://kwgs.com/post/state-house-approves-embryonic-stem-cell-ban)


I'm guessing Rep Fisher also believes the Earth is 6000 years old...


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 25, 2014, 12:54:56 pm
So, in a naked statement he says "my religious beliefs say X, therefore I shall enforce those beliefs upon others as law."

Just like Jesus did!  Just like the constitution wants!  Yay 'Merica.

Probably no practical effect. But the message is research or science that is not in line with fundamentalist Christian views is not wanted.  We don't need high paying research jobs and our universities don't need grants anyway.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 25, 2014, 12:57:35 pm
We put the dumbasses from the back of the class in our state legislature.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on February 25, 2014, 03:00:59 pm
We put the dumbasses from the back of the class in our state legislature.

It’s more like graduation from special ed.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on February 25, 2014, 05:44:55 pm
On the other hand, we're making the Arizona legislature feel pretty good about themselves.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on March 04, 2014, 09:34:09 am
A good a place as any to post this.  So the producers of August, Osage County will get a $5 million rebate on the $35 million they spent filming.  That’s likely $35 million which would have been spent elsewhere.  There are plenty of other rural settings around the country that could have doubled for Osage County.

Looking at some of the quotes, our state legislature sounds like an 1870’s Victorian sewing circle.

Quote
By RANDY KREHBIEL World Staff Writer | 27 comments
The treatment given "August: Osage County" by the critics and the Academy Awards was nothing compared to the way it was kicked around Monday by the Oklahoma House of Representatives.

"A movie almost nobody saw!"

"Filth!"

"We don't need that kind of thing around here!"

Critics --— and there were plenty of them --— said the movie about a flawed Oklahoma family and its overbearing matriarch was a prime example of why the state's film-incentive program should not be renewed.

"Aren't we just reimbursing movie stars who come to town for their motel and meals?" asked Rep. James Lockhart, D-Hartshorne.

"If you could bring the whole city of Hollywood here ... I wouldn't want them," said Rep. David Dank, R-Oklahoma City.

Dank, a particularly intractable opponent of the program, said "August: Osage County" was bad for the state's image and that a film proposed for the
Ponca City area, about former Oklahoma first lady Lydie Marland, would be worse.

"It's about a 50-year-old (governor) who married his 20-year-old stepdaughter," Dank said.

Marland and her adopted father, oilman E.W. Marland, married after Marland's first wife — Lydie's aunt — died. Marland was 54, Lydie 28.

Following E.W. Marland's death, Lydie Marland disappeared for more than two decades and remained a mysterious figure until her death in 1987.
"What are they going to do next," asked Dank. " 'The Grapes of Wrath'?"

Dank and others argued that there is no proof the program helps the state's economy.

Supporters say it is both good exposure and a sound investment.

The film rebate is one of the smaller business-incentive programs the state offers. Capped at $5 million, it reimburses filmmakers for one-third of qualified expenses — generally money spent in the state for payroll, goods or services.

Cast salaries qualify only if the actor is Oklahoma-based.

Reportedly, the makers of "August: Osage County" spent $35.1 million in the state and will get about $5 million back through the program.

House Bill 2580, which would authorize the program's renewal for 10 years, failed on a 48-43 vote, three short of the 51 votes needed. Ten members did not vote.

Jill Simpson, director of the Oklahoma Film and Music Office, said that without the rebate, the state is unlikely to have much in the way of film or television activity.

"Forty-six states have a tax rebate or credit," she said in an email. "If we eliminate the film incentive, films will simply no longer be made here. That will cost taxpayers more than the rebate."

A Senate version of the rebate extension has already passed that body, and HB 2580 is likely to be brought back up for reconsideration, possibly as soon as Tuesday.

Also Monday:

Speaker Jeff Hickman, R-Fairview, announced several leadership changes, including his appointment of Rep. Jason Nelson, R-Oklahoma City, to the new position of deputy majority floor leader.

Hickman also rearranged several committee chairmanships and vice-chairmanships.

House Bill 2317, the "Merry Christmas Bill," had some rough sledding as several members questioned its usefulness while others said it represented the membership's lack of perspective.

The bill, by Rep. Bobby Cleveland, R-Slaughterville, is intended to allow schools to observe "winter holidays" — essentially Christmas and Hanukkah — without fear of legal retribution.

Rep. Mike Shelton, D-Oklahoma City, tried to amend HB 2317 to include Kwanzaa, a secular observance of black culture and history held Dec. 26-Jan. 1.
Rep. Justin Wood, R-Shawnee, quickly moved to table Shelton's amendment, saying, "With all due respect —"

"No," Shelton interrupted. "There is no respect. That's the point."

That began a 90-minute discussion during which everyone agreed that Christmas is a good thing but not whether a law to that effect is necessary or even helpful.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on March 04, 2014, 10:23:31 am
They need to make a movie about OK's legislature. If we could find the Marx brother's clones it would be first rate.

Throwing away 30 million because they didn't like the movie? At least they are consistent in ignoring reality and truth and in throwing away opportunities to increase our state revenues. The Marland story is verifiable and interesting.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on March 04, 2014, 10:48:14 am
They need to make a movie about OK's legislature. If we could find the Marx brother's clones it would be first rate.

Throwing away 30 million because they didn't like the movie? At least they are consistent in ignoring reality and truth and in throwing away opportunities to increase our state revenues. The Marland story is verifiable and interesting.

I was thinking Three Stooges.  Close enough!


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: BKDotCom on March 04, 2014, 11:25:55 am
Dumber & Dumber?

the only accurate assessment:  "A movie almost nobody saw!"
which doesn't change economics of the rebate.
If anything it kinda makes their "it makes us look bad" concerns moot.
If nobody saw the movie, does it matter?

I haven't seen it..  Is it obviously set in OK?  I would assume so based on the title.

If anything makes us look like backwards hicks, it's all the unconstitutional legislation we keep voting for.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: DolfanBob on March 04, 2014, 11:57:31 am
I just read that nonsense at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/august-osage-county-lawmakers-criticize-movie-want-to-kill-film/article_afa11076-c7cd-5d89-8f52-af932bccb024.html They actually voted it down with ten more votes not cast.

I love my home State and I am always proud when a major Motion Picture is filmed here. I don't really know why but probably because we get so little to celebrate around here with State Lawmakers trying to ruin what little progress this State tries to make.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on March 04, 2014, 01:28:41 pm
The type of reporting only the Tulsa World can do:



The bill, by Rep. Bobby Cleveland, R-Slaughterville, is intended to allow schools to observe "winter holidays" — essentially Christmas and Hanukkah — without fear of legal retribution.

Rep. Mike Shelton, D-Oklahoma City, tried to amend HB 2317 to include Kwanzaa, a secular observance of black culture and history held Dec. 26-Jan. 1.

Rep. Justin Wood, R-Shawnee, quickly moved to table Shelton's amendment, saying, "With all due respect —"

"No," Shelton interrupted. "There is no respect. That's the point."




Priceless.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on March 04, 2014, 04:26:15 pm
A good a place as any to post this.  So the producers of August, Osage County will get a $5 million rebate on the $35 million they spent filming.  That’s likely $35 million which would have been spent elsewhere.  There are plenty of other rural settings around the country that could have doubled for Osage County.

Looking at some of the quotes, our state legislature sounds like an 1870’s Victorian sewing circle.


Take 2; House Takes 'Action' on Film Tax Credits

http://kwgs.com/post/take-2-house-takes-action-film-tax-credits (http://kwgs.com/post/take-2-house-takes-action-film-tax-credits)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — The Oklahoma House has — on its second try — passed a bill to extend a tax credit for the film industry. The House voted 65-28 for the measure Tuesday after reconsidering the bill. It had fallen three votes short of passing on Monday. The state provides rebates to filmmakers amounting to $1 for every $3 dollars they spend on movie productions in Oklahoma, up to a total of $5 million. The program is scheduled to expire July 1. The bill by Republican Rep. Todd Thomsen of Ada extends the credit for 10 years to 2024. Opponents say the program is a wasteful use of tax dollars. They also say the Oscar-nominated film "August: Osage County," which used the rebate program, portrayed Oklahoma negatively. ___


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: saintnicster on March 05, 2014, 08:10:20 am
The type of reporting only the Tulsa World can do:



The bill, by Rep. Bobby Cleveland, R-Slaughterville, is intended to allow schools to observe "winter holidays" — essentially Christmas and Hanukkah — without fear of legal retribution.

Rep. Mike Shelton, D-Oklahoma City, tried to amend HB 2317 to include Kwanzaa, a secular observance of black culture and history held Dec. 26-Jan. 1.

Rep. Justin Wood, R-Shawnee, quickly moved to table Shelton's amendment, saying, "With all due respect —"

"No," Shelton interrupted. "There is no respect. That's the point."




Priceless.


That's pretty great xD


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 06, 2014, 07:03:19 pm
Reality is always a b$tch to the small minds in the legislature and elsewhere in various Oklahoma governments (can anyone spell "Failin'"?) when it comes to stuff that doesn't keep this state trending backwards and lower (in all the benchmarks that would mean improvement for the people of the state.)


Got to spend some time in St. Louis last weekend during their latest snow/sleet/ice event.  Roads are good.  Traffic flowed well.  The plow/sand/salt trucks were everywhere - going over streets again that I looked at and thought, wow, how great was the condition of that road....before that last pass.

Plus, Sweetie Pies is GREAT!!!  Great chicken.  Great pork steak.  Great catfish.  Better than GREAT mac and cheese!!!  Great pear cobbler!  Oh...the sweet potatoes - wow!!  Black eyed peas and whole kernel corn among the best I have found across the nation!  Sadly, I don't think I made the tv show.







Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on March 12, 2014, 11:13:53 am
Senate OKs Strict New Abortion Regulations

http://kwgs.com/post/senate-oks-strict-new-abortion-regulations (http://kwgs.com/post/senate-oks-strict-new-abortion-regulations)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A bill that would impose strict new state regulations and requirements for abortion providers in Oklahoma has easily passed the state Senate.

With little discussion and no debate, the Senate voted 34-8 on Wednesday for the bill by Oklahoma City Republican Sen. Greg Treat. The measure now heads to the House, which has supported most anti-abortion legislation.

The bill requires the state Board of Health to develop a list of standards for facilities, supplies, equipment and personnel that abortion providers must maintain at all times.

Among the requirements is that a physician with admitting privileges at an accredited hospital within 30 miles of the facility be on the premises on any day that an abortion is performed.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: RecycleMichael on March 12, 2014, 02:17:30 pm
Brain surgeons and heart surgeons are not required to follow those requirements. I am suspicious that it ain't really about the doctor or the patient.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on April 02, 2014, 12:00:08 pm
Apparently lawmakers are concerned about students and school faculty getting tazed for saying something religious to each other. 

The good news is, all of us can continue to grow super humans in our basements.

'Merry Christmas' Bill Languishing in Senate

http://kwgs.com/post/merry-christmas-bill-languishing-senate

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Several House members are complaining their bills to outlaw embryonic research and to allow school employees to deliver "Merry Christmas" greetings to one another aren't getting a hearing in the Senate.

Rep. Bobby Cleveland's so-called "Merry Christmas" bill that specifically authorizes school district employees to use the greeting and erect nativity scenes has stalled in the Senate Education Committee.

A separate measure that prohibits research involving human embryos has not been scheduled for a hearing in the Senate Health and Human Services Committee.

A third stalled measure would direct school districts to adopt new policies for student speakers and permit students to express their religious beliefs in homework and classroom assignments without penalty.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on April 02, 2014, 12:30:39 pm
I received an auto dealer call on this issue.

Seems to me expressly authorizing Christian greetings and the placing of baby Jesus idols in schools is a problem.  Que the flying spaghetti monster and full pirate regalia.

And why bam stem cell research?  We allow our led students to carve up dead people without even flinching.  Yet learning from cells is over the line?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on April 02, 2014, 12:39:18 pm
I received an auto dealer call on this issue.

Seems to me expressly authorizing Christian greetings and the placing of baby Jesus idols in schools is a problem.  Que the flying spaghetti monster and full pirate regalia.

And why bam stem cell research?  We allow our led students to carve up dead people without even flinching.  Yet learning from cells is over the line?

It's that evil science.  You know, these are the same kinds of people complaining about not being afforded a forum to discuss creationism on "Cosmos".

Probably because 'creationism' is a belief.  It ain't science.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on April 02, 2014, 01:21:21 pm
I suspect the stem cell issue comes from the irrational fear that people would get paid to abort fetuses for stem cell research.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on May 08, 2014, 12:45:50 pm
Now they're hatin' on Fallin:

Senate Votes to Override Governor's Veto

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201304/Governor_Mary_Fallin.jpg)

http://kwgs.com/post/senate-votes-override-governors-veto (http://kwgs.com/post/senate-votes-override-governors-veto)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — The Oklahoma Senate has voted to override Gov. Mary Fallin's veto of a House bill dealing with federal gun regulations.

The Senate voted 39-0 Thursday in favor of the override. The House voted 86-3 on April 30 to override the veto and the bill now becomes law without the governor's signature.

The Senate action is the latest signal of growing tension between the Republican governor and the GOP-controlled Legislature.

Last week, Fallin vetoed 15 House bills she says were unnecessary or didn't have a meaningful purpose. She accused the House of not acting on some of her key agenda items, including a plan to repair the Capitol building.

It's the first successful override since Fallin took office in 2011. A governor's spokesman didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on May 08, 2014, 02:02:50 pm
Now they're hatin' on Fallin:


That’s not much of an accomplishment, it’s easy to do.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on May 20, 2014, 11:27:28 am
I didn't really think he deserved his own thread for this so I figured here is good.

Ex-Oklahoma Senate leader charged with DUI, Bribery

http://kwgs.com/post/ex-oklahoma-senate-leader-charged-dui-bribery (http://kwgs.com/post/ex-oklahoma-senate-leader-charged-dui-bribery)

Quote
NORMAN, Okla. (AP) — A former leader of the Oklahoma Senate has been charged with aggravated drunk driving and attempting to bribe a police officer after being arrested during the weekend in Noble.

Former state Sen. Cal Hobson was charged Monday in Cleveland County District Court.

A police affidavit says Hobson was stopped Sunday by a Noble police officer who witnessed his vehicle swerving. The officer reported Hobson's blood-alcohol content was .27, more than three times the legal limit.

While transporting Hobson to jail, the officer said Hobson offered him up to $50,000 to release him.

Hobson did not immediately return a telephone message, and court records don't indicate if he has an attorney.

Hobson is a former president pro tem of the Oklahoma Senate and currently a Democratic candidate for Cleveland County commissioner.

.27...that dude was tanked


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on September 12, 2014, 11:50:44 am
Yikes

Oklahoma Lawmaker, GOP Chair Affirm Anti-Muslim Post

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-lawmaker-gop-chair-affirm-anti-muslim-post (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-lawmaker-gop-chair-affirm-anti-muslim-post)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201302/John_Bennett.jpg)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A GOP state legislator and the chairman of the Oklahoma Republican Party are standing behind anti-Muslim remarks the lawmaker posted to his Facebook page, and both say they have no plans to apologize.

A Muslim advocacy group has called for state Representative John Bennett to apologize after he posted a comment to his Facebook page urging people, especially Christians, to "be wary of the individuals who claim to be Muslim-American." The Sallisaw Republican also said in his post that the Islamic holy book, the Quran, calls for the killing of non-Muslims.

The Oklahoma chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations' Director Adam Soltani called the comments "inappropriate and offensive."

Bennett says he has no plans to apologize, while Oklahoma Republican Party Chairman Dave Weston described Bennett's comments as "accurate."


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on September 12, 2014, 12:39:46 pm
Yikes

Oklahoma Lawmaker, GOP Chair Affirm Anti-Muslim Post

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-lawmaker-gop-chair-affirm-anti-muslim-post (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-lawmaker-gop-chair-affirm-anti-muslim-post)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201302/John_Bennett.jpg)


Just wow. And the state chair just doubles down on it.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: sauerkraut on September 12, 2014, 01:19:17 pm
I'm disappointed in Mary Fallin's  halt in executions. The killers on death row did not halt what they did to their victims, the jury spoke and they need to pay for their murders. You take a life you lose your life  it's that simple. Let's scrap injection and go to the firing squad or hanging it's quick sure and gets the job done with hanging we can use the same rope over & over too.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on September 12, 2014, 01:22:19 pm
I'm disappointed in Mary Fallin's  halt in executions. The killers on death row did not halt what they did to their victims, the jury spoke and they need to pay for their murders. You take a life you lose your life  it's that simple. Let's scrap injection and go to the firing squad or hanging it's quick sure and gets the job done with hanging we can use the same rope over & over too.

Hanging is not legal in Oklahoma.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on September 12, 2014, 01:57:50 pm
Just wow. And the state chair just doubles down on it.

Yep.  Any question why I renounced my “R” designation a few years back?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on September 12, 2014, 02:17:16 pm
Yep.  Any question why I renounced my “R” designation a few years back?

Eh, I'm still registered R.  I just tell myself I'm not an "Oklahoma R".

That way I can still vote in the primaries.  Thank you out-dated Oklahoma election laws.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on September 12, 2014, 06:02:17 pm
Eh, I'm still registered R.  I just tell myself I'm not an "Oklahoma R".

That way I can still vote in the primaries.  Thank you out-dated Oklahoma election laws.

Darn! Something we don't totally disagree on.  I am actually OK with closed primaries with the exception of when no opposing candidate will be in the general election.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on September 12, 2014, 06:04:40 pm
Yep.  Any question why I renounced my “R” designation a few years back?

Yes, now you have no say in the primaries.  You are totally subject to other's selections of candidates for the general elections.  I hate to say it but see Townsend's comments on this.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on September 12, 2014, 06:06:05 pm
Hanging is not legal in Oklahoma.

I believe that was changed before.  It could be changed again.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on September 12, 2014, 06:39:54 pm
Yes, now you have no say in the primaries.  You are totally subject to other's selections of candidates for the general elections.  I hate to say it but see Townsend's comments on this.


Yep saw that.  Experienced it when I showed up to vote for the DA race a few weeks ago.  Forgot it was an R primary run-off. 

I’m stubborn like that.  I simply can’t identify with the cro-magnons and neanderthals inhabiting the halls of legislature in OKC.  They are a complete embarrassment to the Republican party I joined in 1984.  They aren’t “Reagan conservatives” by any measure.  If they took an objective look at Reagan, they’d consider him a liberal.  The only part of his legacy which makes me cringe was his courting of the moral majority.  Should have left them with the southern Democrats, but that was the strategy which got him elected and re-elected.  And probably the main reason the south is solidly red these days.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on September 12, 2014, 07:10:20 pm
Yep saw that.  Experienced it when I showed up to vote for the DA race a few weeks ago.  Forgot it was an R primary run-off. 

I’m stubborn like that.  I simply can’t identify with the cro-magnons and neanderthals inhabiting the halls of legislature in OKC.  They are a complete embarrassment to the Republican party I joined in 1984.  They aren’t “Reagan conservatives” by any measure.  If they took an objective look at Reagan, they’d consider him a liberal.  The only part of his legacy which makes me cringe was his courting of the moral majority.  Should have left them with the southern Democrats, but that was the strategy which got him elected and re-elected.  And probably the main reason the south is solidly red these days.

I cannot disagree with your sentiment but now you cannot help change things.  You probably couldn't anyway but you cannot even enable the miracle now. I have voted for the occasional Democrat.  It was a very difficult thing to do though. It usually involved the "R" touting religion as a major qualifier for office.

 


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: sauerkraut on September 13, 2014, 09:31:48 am
Hanging is not legal in Oklahoma.
No problem change the law and make it legal. Give the killer a choice, -it's more than he gave his victim- let him pick between firing squad & hanging.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 06, 2015, 08:12:41 am
Anyone think one of our legislators will make it on national news?

Muslim Day to be Held at Oklahoma Capitol

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/muslim-day-be-held-oklahoma-capitol (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/muslim-day-be-held-oklahoma-capitol)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Muslims from across the state of Oklahoma will come to the state Capitol later this month to learn about the legislative process and join panel discussions on issues important to their community.

The Oklahoma chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations announced its first ever "Muslim Day" will be held at the Capitol on February 27th. Executive Director Adam Soltani says he expects more than 100 people to attend the event.

Soltani says the event is designed to encourage members of the Muslim faith to be civically engaged and communicate with their lawmakers.

A similar event at the state Capitol in Texas last week sparked outrage after a group of vitriolic protesters heckled Muslim participants. One woman grabbed the microphone and yelled about Islam.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on February 06, 2015, 08:36:50 am
Anyone think one of our legislators will make it on national news?

Muslim Day to be Held at Oklahoma Capitol

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/muslim-day-be-held-oklahoma-capitol (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/muslim-day-be-held-oklahoma-capitol)


Nope.  Probably more than one, given the level of crazy that seems to exist in the Oklahoma State House.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on February 06, 2015, 09:17:51 am
Anyone think one of our legislators will make it on national news?

Muslim Day to be Held at Oklahoma Capitol

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/muslim-day-be-held-oklahoma-capitol (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/muslim-day-be-held-oklahoma-capitol)


Dude, it’s "Mooslim Day”.  K?

They will probably have lots of them Ay-rabs, Eye-rackies, and Eye-rainians all up in that capitol.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 18, 2015, 12:36:23 pm
Oklahoma House Panel Approves Public Vote on 3 Issues

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-house-panel-approves-public-vote-3-issues (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-house-panel-approves-public-vote-3-issues)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma voters would get to decide if the governor and lieutenant governor should run on a ticket together, whether Oklahomans need more gun rights, and if the entire state constitution should be rewritten.

The House Rules Committee approved the three separate measures on Wednesday that would send proposals to a vote of the people. All three resolutions now go to the full House.

Republican Rep. Gary Banz of Midwest City wants the people to decide if the governor and lieutenant governor should run together, and whether it's time for a state constitutional convention.

A separate proposal by Republican Rep. Dan Fisher of El Reno calls for a public vote on whether to amend the constitution to strengthen an individual's right to keep and bear arms.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on February 18, 2015, 12:44:35 pm
Oklahoma House Panel Approves Public Vote on 3 Issues

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-house-panel-approves-public-vote-3-issues (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-house-panel-approves-public-vote-3-issues)


Because the Second Amendment doesn't already do this.  SMFH.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 18, 2015, 01:31:13 pm
The newly elected Republican super majority in Oklahoma is horrid.

We have either proposed, or moved forward to:

1) Take money away from schools to use for jails.
2) Money from schools to go to Oklahoma City's pet project (Indian museum)
3) Ban AP classes because they want to teach American history (news flash! We aren't and haven't always been perfect. GASP!)
4) Forbid multilingual schools.
5) Reduced taxes on the wealthiest Oklahomans, telling citizens there was plenty of money, only to recant a few weeks later and admit we face a $600,000,000.00 hole.
6) Propose arming college students in class (remember, we can't trust half of them to drink... but GUNS FOR EVERYONE!)
7) Exempt Oklahoma laws from the US Constitution (seriously, numerous laws propose this)
8) Forbid Oklahoma Judges from enforcing the US Constitution under threat of firing and revocation of pernsion
9) Numerous bills making sure "them gays" know we hate and fear them due to our religious beliefs
10) Numerous bills to teach baptist Christianity in the classroom (please don't be confused, we don't need no Papist type teachin') or otherwise fund Medrassas (or whatever you call the fundamentalist christian equivalent) 
11) Ban the Oklahoma Bar Association
12) Exempt Oklahoma laws from challenges under the Oklahoma Constitution
13) Get rid of OSCN (public access to Court information)


Continuous lip service to responsible government.

We have roads that are rated a D. Our bridges have an overall grade of "deficient."  Our levies and dams are considered "priority status" by the Corps of Engineers. Our educational system compares unfavorably with Arkansas and New Mexico while we are damn glad Mississippi exists. Our public health is consistently among the worst in the Union (which isn't among the best in the world). Our standard of living is falling. Oklahoma is in the bottom 10 for average wages earned. Are are disproportionately disabled. We have a higher poverty rate than most states. We have more women in prison than anywhere else. We struggle to attract, retain, or train an educated work force.

We have REAL PROBLEMS. Courts. Infrastructure. Public health. Education. Public safety. And setting up the correct conditions for prosperity is what the government is supposed to do. Instead we are focused on fighting against public education, taking funding away from infrastructure, blindly funding more prisons, not caring at all about health, and making damn sure gay people know we don't like them.  ("HEY GAY PEOPLE, OKLAHOMA DOESN'T LIKE YOU! Even though you are disproportionately educated, wealthy, and statistically unlikely to commit crimes... we don't want you here." I hear that's what the new Welcome to Oklahoma sign is going to say)

Again,we have actual issues.

My proposed to laws:

A) If a legislator cannot pass the final exam of an AP history AND civics course, they are not eligible for office
B) We already fought the "gay" fight, move on
C) Education is essential for business and leads to prosperity, fund it
D) Infrastructure is essential for business and leads to prosperity, fund it
E) Taxes are bad, but we need tax revenue to fund things. Get over it
F) Quality of life counts: art, parks, recreation, festivals, celebrations, public works... these things are not a waste
G) Not all social problems can be solved by building more prisons
F) Other people have solved our problems, find what works and do that

Annnnnnnnnd GO!


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on February 18, 2015, 02:09:31 pm
Lest anyone question why I’m a former Republican....


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on February 18, 2015, 02:18:26 pm
I think we can pretty safely now say

"We're Number 1, We're Number 1, We're Number 1!"


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 18, 2015, 02:35:16 pm
The newly elected Republican super majority in Oklahoma is horrid.

We have either proposed, or moved forward to:

1) Take money away from schools to use for jails.
2) Money from schools to go to Oklahoma City's pet project (Indian museum)
3) Ban AP classes because they want to teach American history (news flash! We aren't and haven't always been perfect. GASP!)
4) Forbid multilingual schools.
5) Reduced taxes on the wealthiest Oklahomans, telling citizens there was plenty of money, only to recant a few weeks later and admit we face a $600,000,000.00 hole.
6) Propose arming college students in class (remember, we can't trust half of them to drink... but GUNS FOR EVERYONE!)
7) Exempt Oklahoma laws from the US Constitution (seriously, numerous laws propose this)
8) Forbid Oklahoma Judges from enforcing the US Constitution under threat of firing and revocation of pernsion
9) Numerous bills making sure "them gays" know we hate and fear them due to our religious beliefs
10) Numerous bills to teach baptist Christianity in the classroom (please don't be confused, we don't need no Papist type teachin') or otherwise fund Medrassas (or whatever you call the fundamentalist christian equivalent) 
11) Ban the Oklahoma Bar Association
12) Exempt Oklahoma laws from challenges under the Oklahoma Constitution
13) Get rid of OSCN (public access to Court information)


Continuous lip service to responsible government.

We have roads that are rated a D. Our bridges have an overall grade of "deficient."  Our levies and dams are considered "priority status" by the Corps of Engineers. Our educational system compares unfavorably with Arkansas and New Mexico while we are damn glad Mississippi exists. Our public health is consistently among the worst in the Union (which isn't among the best in the world). Our standard of living is falling. Oklahoma is in the bottom 10 for average wages earned. Are are disproportionately disabled. We have a higher poverty rate than most states. We have more women in prison than anywhere else. We struggle to attract, retain, or train an educated work force.

We have REAL PROBLEMS. Courts. Infrastructure. Public health. Education. Public safety. And setting up the correct conditions for prosperity is what the government is supposed to do. Instead we are focused on fighting against public education, taking funding away from infrastructure, blindly funding more prisons, not caring at all about health, and making damn sure gay people know we don't like them.  ("HEY GAY PEOPLE, OKLAHOMA DOESN'T LIKE YOU! Even though you are disproportionately educated, wealthy, and statistically unlikely to commit crimes... we don't want you here." I hear that's what the new Welcome to Oklahoma sign is going to say)

Again,we have actual issues.

My proposed to laws:

A) If a legislator cannot pass the final exam of an AP history AND civics course, they are not eligible for office
B) We already fought the "gay" fight, move on
C) Education is essential for business and leads to prosperity, fund it
D) Infrastructure is essential for business and leads to prosperity, fund it
E) Taxes are bad, but we need tax revenue to fund things. Get over it
F) Quality of life counts: art, parks, recreation, festivals, celebrations, public works... these things are not a waste
G) Not all social problems can be solved by building more prisons
F) Other people have solved our problems, find what works and do that

Annnnnnnnnd GO!



Aahhyyepppp! 

Summarizes why we have such a horrendous drain of intelligent, talented, highly-skilled, and technical people from the state.  Educated people are getting tired of fighting the fight.


We're Number 48!!  We're Number 48!!





Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: tulsa1603 on February 18, 2015, 08:48:28 pm
Lest anyone question why I’m a former Republican....

Same here. 

I'm 38, I decided to stay here after college, but the last few weeks have me really regretting that decision!  Besides low cost of living, can anyone tell me a benefit for living here anymore??  The state is broke, there are few with any common sense trying to fix it, we are a national laughing stock, and there is no end to the madness in sight.  My partner has wanted to leave the state for the last two years, but I've fought him on it, saying that people like us need to stay and fix things.  Now I'm wondering what the hell I'm fighting for??  ??? Geeeeez.

And who are all these dingbats voting these people in?? From what I see on social media and on here, these ideas are all WIDELY being condemned as nutty.  Maybe I'm too insulated from the "real" Oklahoma.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 18, 2015, 09:19:26 pm
Same here. 

I'm 38, I decided to stay here after college, but the last few weeks have me really regretting that decision!  Besides low cost of living, can anyone tell me a benefit for living here anymore??  The state is broke, there are few with any common sense trying to fix it, we are a national laughing stock, and there is no end to the madness in sight.  My partner has wanted to leave the state for the last two years, but I've fought him on it, saying that people like us need to stay and fix things.  Now I'm wondering what the hell I'm fighting for??  ??? Geeeeez.

And who are all these dingbats voting these people in?? From what I see on social media and on here, these ideas are all WIDELY being condemned as nutty.  Maybe I'm too insulated from the "real" Oklahoma.

I'm still a Republican...I'm just an old fashioned Republican apparently.

I'm with you.  We're getting closer and closer to leaving.

We've discussed where we'd like to go.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on February 18, 2015, 09:38:47 pm
I'm still a Republican...I'm just an old fashioned Republican apparently.

I'm with you.  We're getting closer and closer to leaving.

We've discussed where we'd like to go.

Just promise to come visit MC and I in Pagosa Springs, Co. or (destination yet unknown), northern NM every now and then.

I’ve looked into the BVI’s but our retirement fund won’t get us as far down there.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on February 18, 2015, 09:46:44 pm
We've discussed where we'd like to go.

Hang out here long enough and people will tell you where to go.
 
 ;D




Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on February 18, 2015, 10:21:41 pm
So now the rep who introduced the bill banning AP History says it 'was very poorly worded'.  After getting national and world acclaim for quite possible the dumbest (well, next to Kern's bills) bill ever seen.  And after an online petition got nearly 10,000 signatures, he says they will pull the bill and rewrite it.  That's likely OK-R speak for "you won't see it in this light again".


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on February 18, 2015, 11:54:02 pm
And people ask me why I don't want to move back to Oklahoma.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on February 19, 2015, 01:44:03 am
And people ask me why I don't want to move back to Oklahoma.

My issue is that I was born and raised here and I love Oklahoma.  Even if sometimes I don't love her back because of the stupid smile her elected officials do.  So when someone tells me, especially someone who hasn't lived their whole life here as I have, to leave if I don't like it, I rightly tell those people to pi$$ off.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 19, 2015, 08:48:53 am
Same here.  

I'm 38, I decided to stay here after college, but the last few weeks have me really regretting that decision!  Besides low cost of living, can anyone tell me a benefit for living here anymore??  The state is broke, there are few with any common sense trying to fix it, we are a national laughing stock, and there is no end to the madness in sight.  My partner has wanted to leave the state for the last two years, but I've fought him on it, saying that people like us need to stay and fix things.  Now I'm wondering what the hell I'm fighting for??  ??? Geeeeez.

And who are all these dingbats voting these people in?? From what I see on social media and on here, these ideas are all WIDELY being condemned as nutty.  Maybe I'm too insulated from the "real" Oklahoma.


Benefit of living here - because it is a beautiful place with lots of interesting stuff to do.  Well, at least I find a lot of interesting stuff to do, and I don't even get to a lot of the stuff a many of the people on this site like!

There are many with common sense trying to fix it - have been since at least the 60's from my personal experience.  The problem is they are so overwhelmed by the ignorance and stupidstition that it has always been an uphill battle and likely to remain.  Think in terms of the scene from Blazing Saddles, after Bart's confrontation with the Johnson's and he says, "And they are so *dumb*!"  That is the intellectual capacity of our legislative representatives - well, maybe not quite that much, but you get the idea....


You ARE very insulated from the "real" Oklahoma - get out amongst them and proselytize - it can only help!  But be prepared for shunning, blacklisting, and ostracization (slightly less virulent form of shunning.)  There are "corporate citizens" who walk the parking lot looking for bumper stickers supporting what they are against and then firing those people.  Another reason I never use bumper stickers....

Can only try to lead and educate by example - talk up NPR and PBS, where people can start the detox process on poisoned brain cells.  It doesn't help that Faux News is the exclusive, chosen outlet of the average Okrahoma voter - lies and distortions at much greater than the average media rate.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 19, 2015, 09:05:51 am
My issue is that I was born and raised here and I love Oklahoma.  Even if sometimes I don't love her back because of the stupid smile her elected officials do.  So when someone tells me, especially someone who hasn't lived their whole life here as I have, to leave if I don't like it, I rightly tell those people to pi$$ off.


Good for you!!  Keep telling them that!!   Too dam many "imports" - people from higher cost areas of the country - who come here to 'score' on the economic conditions with their big jobs and salaries based on home place wage scales, while enjoying the dramatically lower cost of living - in particular in housing.  They vote on really stupid carp, then when they get retired, bail to take the benefits they gained here back to their home place.


On a smaller scale, the same thing has happened to all the small towns surrounding Tulsa - people saw the 'small town' ambience, thought they liked it, then moved there, but brought the same carp they had in Tulsa to those small towns, remaking them into Tulsa.  Owasso, Broken Arrow, Jenks, Bixby, Sand Springs...  those and more have all been afflicted with this disease... 



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on February 19, 2015, 12:01:17 pm

Good for you!!  Keep telling them that!!   Too dam many "imports" - people from higher cost areas of the country - who come here to 'score' on the economic conditions with their big jobs and salaries based on home place wage scales, while enjoying the dramatically lower cost of living - in particular in housing.  They vote on really stupid carp, then when they get retired, bail to take the benefits they gained here back to their home place.


On a smaller scale, the same thing has happened to all the small towns surrounding Tulsa - people saw the 'small town' ambience, thought they liked it, then moved there, but brought the same carp they had in Tulsa to those small towns, remaking them into Tulsa.  Owasso, Broken Arrow, Jenks, Bixby, Sand Springs...  those and more have all been afflicted with this disease... 



So you would like to have the small towns around Tulsa to go back to the Skoal Dipping, Crap Kicking, Rednecks that everyone so identifies Oklahoma with, and have goat roping as a state sport.

Hey, these guy are looking for a leadership role, why don't you elect them?

(http://cfile6.uf.tistory.com/image/013E1D4E510FFD4C0994BF)


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: TheArtist on February 19, 2015, 12:22:36 pm

Good for you!!  Keep telling them that!!   Too dam many "imports" - people from higher cost areas of the country - who come here to 'score' on the economic conditions with their big jobs and salaries based on home place wage scales, while enjoying the dramatically lower cost of living - in particular in housing.  They vote on really stupid carp, then when they get retired, bail to take the benefits they gained here back to their home place.


On a smaller scale, the same thing has happened to all the small towns surrounding Tulsa - people saw the 'small town' ambience, thought they liked it, then moved there, but brought the same carp they had in Tulsa to those small towns, remaking them into Tulsa.  Owasso, Broken Arrow, Jenks, Bixby, Sand Springs...  those and more have all been afflicted with this disease...  



I sure as heck haven't seen many of those people. I know of more people leaving Tulsa than moving here.  The main "imports" we have are the hispanic population.  Tulsa would have lost population over the last several years if it weren't for them.  And I dare say the trends aren't looking good.  We will probably hit no growth and possibly lose population again.

And what's the deal with cheap housing being such a draw?  I would rather live in half the house with twice the amenities nearby, and I think more and more people are coming to that realization as well.  Which is not good news for Tulsa or Oklahoma if we keep on the path we are going.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 19, 2015, 01:14:15 pm
To look at it from a bigger perspective...

We court businesses. We don't care what kind of businesses, if they are really committed to the state, if they pollute, if they are good jobs, or anything else. We just want business.

By and large, that attracts corporate citizens who are looking for handouts and don't really give a crap about the community. They aren't moving here for the people, the community, or anything else - they are moving here because we have attempted to set up a system where they can make money. So they come, and they go, and nothing else really matters to them.

And business IS important. But you can either set up a system where we beg business to come in and give us jobs, and we then cater our rules to them and pay them for the privilege of them being here. OR... you can set up a system where we have an educated work force, a high quality of life, and a business climate that encourages employers to WANT to come here on their own accord.

Seattle. Denver. Portland. Minneapolis. Austin. Hell, even Kansas City. No one moves to those cities because of their low rent, cheap labor, or lack of regulation. Those cities have done a good job of attracting and retaining top talent by having a high standard of living. Companies WANT to move to those location because of the labor - and they are willing to pay more to be there. That means the CITIZENS (aka, the ones who actually "own" the city/state and are supposed to be the beneficiaries of good governance [government FOR THE PEOPLE]) make more money and having a higher standard of living.

Companies want: cheap rent, cheap labor, the ability to do as they please and buy influence (low regulation, "business friendly)
People want: higher wages, higher quality of life, government FOR THE PEOPLE

Most of our best corporate citizens are "born and bred" Tulsa/Oklahoma companies. Other good corporate citizens are long time residents (American Airlines), etc.  Trying to find and bring in "hired guns" to provide low rent jobs might not be the best strategy...


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 19, 2015, 01:53:57 pm
So you would like to have the small towns around Tulsa to go back to the Skoal Dipping, Crap Kicking, Rednecks that everyone so identifies Oklahoma with, and have goat roping as a state sport.

Hey, these guy are looking for a leadership role, why don't you elect them?

(http://cfile6.uf.tistory.com/image/013E1D4E510FFD4C0994BF)


This is what we have and always have had - and worse.  The whole point is to try to do better.  So far, it's an uphill battle!



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: guido911 on February 19, 2015, 06:32:57 pm
Saw this today.

http://www.ktul.com/story/28150958/drivers-who-smoke-in-cars-with-children-could-face-fines


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on February 19, 2015, 09:40:55 pm
And what's the deal with cheap housing being such a draw?  I would rather live in half the house with twice the amenities nearby, and I think more and more people are coming to that realization as well.

I turned down transfer to the San Jose, CA area in the late 80s primarily because of the cost of living.  Housing was the biggest part.  I went on a few trips to that site and always cruised around the area in the rental car.  One place I remember was Los Gatos.  Houses that looked like $60,000 in Tulsa were decorated with Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac, Lincoln.... cars.  Turned out those houses were at least $350,000 way back then.  My boss took the transfer.  He traded a 2800 ft^2 house in BA and two cars (one for his wife) for an 1100 ft^2 house on a postage stamp for $200,000+ and one POS car.  All he could afford to do was go to work.   He took another transfer out of CA a few years later but couldn't cash-in because CA taxed housing gains heavily for folks in his situation.

We all have different requirements for amenities.  
I generally think that going out to eat in my home town is a waste of time and money.  There are a few exceptions, about 1/2 dozen per year.  I'd rather spend my money on avgas. I like to visit museums once in a while.  I enjoyed my time in my favorite local bars when I was in the Navy.  I don't want to do that now, except occasionally.  I would probably enjoy the Symphony but I hate to get dressed up and don't wish to spoil the evening for those who do.  I'm generally not interested in theater productions.  Crowded places are not a source of enjoyment for me.   I have outgrown 100 dBA rock concerts.   I did enjoy the Boston Pops on the 4th of July (1980).  Walking the Freedom Trail in Boston was fun but not something I would do every week.  I don't care about professional athletic competitions.

I do like having fire, police, and ambulance service nearby.  I was OK with driving a few miles to a grocery store and don't care for most of the development along Memorial.  I do go to the WalMart, Reasor's, and Lowe's here at 111th and Memorial though as it would be silly to go to their other locations just to protest the local traffic.   Piped in natural gas rather than a tank of propane is nice.

Our house is about 1500 ft^2.  An extra hobby room would be nice but I would probably just fill it with more stuff and still not have enough room.  I don't want a 4000 ft^2 house to maintain.  The acre of land and having my nearest neighbors about 100 ft away is nice and worth the price of a garden tractor and the time to cut the grass. Edging is not necessary without sidewalks or curbs. (Just for you Townsend.  ;D ) Chainsaws, rototils, hedge trimmers and other power devices requiring hearing protection and work gloves are a good way to get some exercise. I get out the ax if there are just a few fallen limbs too big for the muscle powered loppers.

A general aviation airport somewhat nearby is a necessity.  Riverside/Jones is about 10 miles.  I don't golf.  I tried it once in high school and shot a 296 for 18 holes and lost about a dozen golf balls.  

Sorry for the rambling.  I understand that a lot of people want the stuff I don't care about and vise versa.

Edit:
I almost forgot to say I like having room for my pepper gardens and space to throw a toy for our German Shepherd.  Pepper seedlings are popping up in the area originally designed as a dining room. I have 4 flats of peppers and eggplants.  I'll get Okra started in another space in a few weeks. Okra comes up faster than peppers and eggplants.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: TheArtist on February 19, 2015, 11:09:12 pm
I turned down transfer to the San Jose, CA area in the late 80s primarily because of the cost of living.  Housing was the biggest part.  I went on a few trips to that site and always cruised around the area in the rental car.  One place I remember was Los Gatos.  Houses that looked like $60,000 in Tulsa were decorated with Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac, Lincoln.... cars.  Turned out those houses were at least $350,000 way back then.  My boss took the transfer.  He traded a 2800 ft^2 house in BA and two cars (one for his wife) for an 1100 ft^2 house on a postage stamp for $200,000+ and one POS car.  All he could afford to do was go to work.   He took another transfer out of CA a few years later but couldn't cash-in because CA taxed housing gains heavily for folks in his situation.

We all have different requirements for amenities.  
I generally think that going out to eat in my home town is a waste of time and money.  There are a few exceptions, about 1/2 dozen per year.  I'd rather spend my money on avgas. I like to visit museums once in a while.  I enjoyed my time in my favorite local bars when I was in the Navy.  I don't want to do that now, except occasionally.  I would probably enjoy the Symphony but I hate to get dressed up and don't wish to spoil the evening for those who do.  I'm generally not interested in theater productions.  Crowded places are not a source of enjoyment for me.   I have outgrown 100 dBA rock concerts.   I did enjoy the Boston Pops on the 4th of July (1980).  Walking the Freedom Trail in Boston was fun but not something I would do every week.  I don't care about professional athletic competitions.

I do like having fire, police, and ambulance service nearby.  I was OK with driving a few miles to a grocery store and don't care for most of the development along Memorial.  I do go to the WalMart, Reasor's, and Lowe's here at 111th and Memorial though as it would be silly to go to their other locations just to protest the local traffic.   Piped in natural gas rather than a tank of propane is nice.

Our house is about 1500 ft^2.  An extra hobby room would be nice but I would probably just fill it with more stuff and still not have enough room.  I don't want a 4000 ft^2 house to maintain.  The acre of land and having my nearest neighbors about 100 ft away is nice and worth the price of a garden tractor and the time to cut the grass. Edging is not necessary without sidewalks or curbs. (Just for you Townsend.  ;D ) Chainsaws, rototils, hedge trimmers and other power devices requiring hearing protection and work gloves are a good way to get some exercise. I get out the ax if there are just a few fallen limbs too big for the muscle powered loppers.

A general aviation airport somewhat nearby is a necessity.  Riverside/Jones is about 10 miles.  I don't golf.  I tried it once in high school and shot a 296 for 18 holes and lost about a dozen golf balls.  

Sorry for the rambling.  I understand that a lot of people want the stuff I don't care about and vise versa.

Edit:
I almost forgot to say I like having room for my pepper gardens and space to throw a toy for our German Shepherd.  Pepper seedlings are popping up in the area originally designed as a dining room. I have 4 flats of peppers and eggplants.  I'll get Okra started in another space in a few weeks. Okra comes up faster than peppers and eggplants.


You know whats fascinating when I read your first couple of paragraphs was the thought that basically what your friend moved to was a more expensive, and compact version of what we have here.  Same thing, just more of it.   Dallas has taken that route.  It's still a suburban car culture, just done big.  Very much just as isolating in many ways and doesn't change ones cultural/societal take on things.

For instance, in a more pedestrian/transit friendly city with people living that lifestyle, your perspectives and values can shift ever so subtly yet profoundly.  The local parks become your yard and you come to value them, even if you have a small plot out back to grow flowers and vegetables.  The sidewalks are your hallways, the cafe or patisserie around the corner your breakfast nook, the local pub (and they are not all always noisy brawling places) a hang out for friends and family, the subway is another way of getting around (in London I remember one evening going out and seeing a couple of older couples in perhaps their late 60's early 70's sitting in the seats right opposite me, the ladies had on nice skirts and dress shoes a scarf thrown around their necks, the gentlemen in slacks and tweed jackets with hats on. They were laughing and carrying on a good conversation and from what I gathered were going out to a restaurant to have dinner. Not what my stereotype of what the subway was supposed to be like, but was full of everyday people of all sorts, families, children, teens, tourists, young, old, etc.)  Also every day you would see young people in suits heading off to work, children walking the sidewalks near where I lived in their school uniforms. Beautiful, quiet, tree lined streets lined with row houses were behind the apartment buildings where I lived, while just to the other side of me was a main street and subway station.  Everything in the world was right there easy breezy.  No car needed or even wanted. There a car would be more of a burden or a hassle. I couldn't imagine trying to navigate those winding mazes of streets and had no idea where anyone would park a car if they had one anyway.

Driving around here around Norman today to run some errands. I literally drove for hours, fields with lots of new homes going in (made me wonder what on earth those children did in those neighborhoods) buildings, parking lots, more fields, highways......no people.  Work to home, no people. That changes you and your outlook, and perhaps you don't even realize what it's doing to you. I always wonder if there is some connection with how we have some of the highest suicide rates in the world (higher even than our homicide rates) and the fact that we are so isolated and alone for so much of the time. We lack the sense of community and camaraderie that you seem to far more easily find in even a huge city, where you wouldn't think that would happen.

That's what I am talking about when I talk about "amenities". Being able to get everything within a short walk or quick hop on the tube. Amenities like beautiful parks and public spaces with statues and fountains, birds and all sorts of plants, right around the corner. Quiet avenues and squares, lovely old churches of mossy stone with big old trees in the lots around them over here, bustling streets full of life right over there. Stumbling across and investigating the occasional little flea market. Incredible food markets (my gosh if I could adequately describe one of the food markets I ran across one day while out randomly exploring, stall after stall after stall of glorious, scrumptious pastries and sweets of every sort imaginable surrounding you on every side.)  I don't know whether that would be a good amenity or a horrible one, but I do know I would die fat and with a smile on my whip creme and chocolate covered face right there in the middle of it all.  

Anywhoo, thats what I mean by more amenities, not just smaller home more driving and more expense so you can go to the theater or a loud club or concert (which oddly seems to be the perspective of "that's urban living" in our neck of the woods as even you seem to have put out there a bit).

Again, not saying thats for everyone, but would like the cities in our state to be able to have some good urban living, to be able to offer those types of amenities.  And yes, along with that comes a different sense of perspective and values.  And a lot of people here do not want that and will fight against it.

Frighteningly enough, just as our cities like Tulsa and OKC seem to be developing more urban cores and being able to attract or keep those types of people who like it, the prevailing attitudes in the state seem bent on destroying that progress, economically and socially.  It's like we are soooo close, making decent progress and BAM! out of the blue comes some stupid bill, tax issue, economic conundrum, face palm social issue headline, etc. to scare us into thinking all our hard work will be for naught.




Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on February 20, 2015, 12:50:35 am
You know whats fascinating when I read your first couple of paragraphs was the thought that basically what your friend moved to was a more expensive, and compact version of what we have here.  Same thing, just more of it.
Yep.  I was just pointing out that affordable (let's call it that rather than cheap) housing allows the owners to do something besides support a home.
 
Quote
For instance, in a more pedestrian/transit friendly city with people living that lifestyle, your perspectives and values can shift ever so subtly yet profoundly.  The local parks become your yard and you come to value them, even if you have a small plot out back to grow flowers and vegetables.  The sidewalks are your hallways, the cafe or patisserie around the corner your breakfast nook, the local pub (and they are not all always noisy brawling places) a hang out for friends and family,
I understand.  Where I grew up had neighborhood parks.  We used them and had fun but I never considered them "my yard".  Sidewalks were a way to get somewhere but I never considered them an extension of our home.  We had a neighborhood deli (still there 40+ years later, owned by the 3 generation of the same family), drug store, variety shop, beauty salon, barber, grocery, butcher shop, beverage (beer) store and maybe a few more but they were places of business.  The businesses have changed since then.  I wasn't quite pub age when we moved to OK. There was a neighborhood pub and additional shopping one trolley stop away but it was walkable at about 1/2 mile through one of the neighborhood parks.

Quote
the subway is another way of getting around (in London I remember one evening going out and seeing a couple of older couples in perhaps their late 60's early 70's sitting in the seats right opposite me, the ladies had on nice skirts and dress shoes a scarf thrown around their necks, the gentlemen in slacks and tweed jackets with hats on. They were laughing and carrying on a good conversation and from what I gathered were going out to a restaurant to have dinner. Not what my stereotype of what the subway was supposed to be like, but was full of everyday people of all sorts, families, children, teens, tourists, young, old, etc.)  Also every day you would see young people in suits heading off to work, children walking the sidewalks near where I lived in their school uniforms. Beautiful, quiet, tree lined streets lined with row houses were behind the apartment buildings where I lived, while just to the other side of me was a main street and subway station.  Everything in the world was right there easy breezy.  No car needed or even wanted. There a car would be more of a burden or a hassle. I couldn't imagine trying to navigate those winding mazes of streets and had no idea where anyone would park a car if they had one anyway.
As I have posted numerous times before, if I needed to go to Phila I took the trolley to the interchange with the Phila Market St Subway unless there was a direct need to have a car such as going to a benefit dog show in Rittenhouse Square. Kids took the trolley to school. Adults took the trolley/subway to Phila.  A short drive away from our neighborhood was an electric commuter train (heavy rail).  One of my friends' father used the train as it took him closer to his work quicker than the trolley route.  My friend's mom drove the dad to and from the train station in the one family car.  Most elementary school kids walked or rode bikes to school. The Catholic school kids wore uniforms but public school kids did not have uniforms.   I can understand not needing a car.  A Navy friend grew up in NYC and never even learned to drive until he was in the Navy.  On the flip side, one of my cousins lived in Boston near the Boston Commons in the mid to late 70s. She used public transit when she could but still had a car to get away.  One thing she did was go to some local lakes to ride her surfboard sailboat which she stored in her spot in the parking garage.  Even in Boston there were instances when it was still more convenient to go by car than by transit.  You will need to accept that many of "us" want to own a car.  It is one reason I would not want to live in a place like NYC.  I agree owning a car there is an insane expense.
 
Quote
Driving around here around Norman today to run some errands. I literally drove for hours, fields with lots of new homes going in (made me wonder what on earth those children did in those neighborhoods) buildings, parking lots, more fields, highways......no people.  Work to home, no people. That changes you and your outlook, and perhaps you don't even realize what it's doing to you. I always wonder if there is some connection with how we have some of the highest suicide rates in the world (higher even than our homicide rates) and the fact that we are so isolated and alone for so much of the time. We lack the sense of community and camaraderie that you seem to far more easily find in even a huge city, where you wouldn't think that would happen.
I too wonder why folks around here want to live 5 ft from their neighbor without the amenities you describe.  Where I grew up there were mostly single family houses and duplexes with a few small apartment buildings with about 4 apartments each.  Even before dad got transferred here, mom and dad wanted to move farther out to a semi rural area. We moved here before that happened.  As I said, we are on about an acre because we wanted the space.  It used to be quiet and dark at night and we could see the stars, even toward the north over Tulsa.  Not so much anymore.  I could walk to WalMart at 111th  & Memorial.  It's about 6/10 mi.  My mom is pretty old now, needs a walker, and could not walk to the corner store where I grew up.  I will admit that if we were in a much denser area that more neighbors would be available to help her if needed.

Quote
That's what I am talking about when I talk about "amenities". Being able to get everything within a short walk or quick hop on the tube. Amenities like beautiful parks and public spaces with statues and fountains, birds and all sorts of plants, right around the corner. Quiet avenues and squares, lovely old churches of mossy stone with big old trees in the lots around them over here, bustling streets full of life right over there. Stumbling across and investigating the occasional little flea market. Incredible food markets (my gosh if I could adequately describe one of the food markets I ran across one day while out randomly exploring, stall after stall after stall of glorious, scrumptious pastries and sweets of every sort imaginable surrounding you on every side.)  I don't know whether that would be a good amenity or a horrible one, but I do know I would die fat and with a smile on my whip creme and chocolate covered face right there in the middle of it all.
I'm just not into that kind of stuff.  When I was in Munich looking for some gifts to take back to my hosts near Frankfurt, it was nearly painful for me to be shopping for some small gifts.  It's just not something I do well.  However, I could spend all day wandering through an automobile salvage yard looking at the cars wondering what was wrong with the cars with no visible crash damage.  I am not much of a foodie but I did like the fresh bagels my cousin and I got at Faneuil Hall Market in Boston. We looked through many of the other stores but I don't remember buying anything.  I'm just not a shopper in the sense that you are.

Quote
Anywhoo, thats what I mean by more amenities, not just smaller home more driving and more expense so you can go to the theater or a loud club or concert (which oddly seems to be the perspective of "that's urban living" in our neck of the woods as even you seem to have put out there a bit).

I had forgotten about your extended home attributes of parks etc.  I doubt I could buy into it personally but I can see what you are saying.  I agree that urban is not just smaller homes and more driving.  As I understand it, many urban row homes have more square footage than many of the free standing homes around here.  They are just skinny, share walls with neighbors, and don't have side yards.

Quote
Again, not saying thats for everyone, but would like the cities in our state to be able to have some good urban living, to be able to offer those types of amenities.  And yes, along with that comes a different sense of perspective and values.  And a lot of people here do not want that and will fight against it.

I think what you and many others want should be available.  A lively downtown makes shops like yours more viable.  One of them might just have the one thing I need that couldn't be supported by the likes of Woodland Hills Mall. In the late 80s I went downtown to buy a printer for the home computer.  They had an Epson LQ1000, 24 pin dot matrix.  Hot stuff at the time.  They actually had one in stock for me to look at. I bought it.  If nothing else, an urban core might ease some of the traffic out here by moving people back from the burbs.  I would like usable public transit.  I might be more likely to come downtown if there was a trolley from 121st and Memorial to downtown.  I believe it is in one of the distant future options.  I probably won't live that long.

Quote
Frighteningly enough, just as our cities like Tulsa and OKC seem to be developing more urban cores and being able to attract or keep those types of people who like it, the prevailing attitudes in the state seem bent on destroying that progress, economically and socially.  It's like we are soooo close, making decent progress and BAM! out of the blue comes some stupid bill, tax issue, economic conundrum, face palm social issue headline, etc. to scare us into thinking all our hard work will be for naught.
I hope you and others are successful in revitalizing downtowns all over.  When we lived near Phila we could get almost anything in a day.  When we moved here, we could get almost anything.... from Dallas in a few days.


The old stomping grounds:
http://goo.gl/maps/hc19e



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: TheArtist on February 20, 2015, 08:16:22 am
Very nice neighborhood. Too suburban for my tastes.  But again, to each his own, well at least I wish more people around here thought that.

Here are my "old stomping grounds" near the outskirts of London and when I go back to visit will like to stay in the area.  There is a great Hostel "Palmers Lodge, Swiss Cottage" there  http://palmerslodges.com/swisscottage/hostel/  Video shows the hostel and briefly the area https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eDQ93Ozyetw   stayed in a ground floor apartment at this location 24 College Cres and could walk in like 2 minutes to the Swiss Cottage tube station.  There were also numerous bus stops nearby and a "main street" type area right around the corner. Beautiful quiet streets one way, quick access to the whole world the other.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/28+College+Cres,+London+NW3+5LH,+UK/@51.5446489,-0.1750725,117m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m7!1m4!3m3!1s0x48761a906a56ade7:0x5a8c04b0d0724031!2s24+College+Cres,+London+NW3+5LL,+UK!3b1!3m1!1s0x48761a901190a271:0xbee24c8415355652

Cant figure out how to save the satellite view?

Anywhoo, you can do the street view, might have to swing around a bit to the right, just past the stores to see my apartment which was in the brown brick building facing the sidewalk on the left "Northways Parade" (hope it shows things in that direction) and I could see the white homes across the street from my window.  Turning around was my "commute" to the tube station on the Jubilee Line and turning right on Finchley Road you would go down the main street where I would get my groceries, shop and dine.  If what I wanted wasn't there, I would take the tube and in a few minutes could be at another station in a more bustling urban area that had more things.  This was a relatively quiet part of town which was nice.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cynical on February 20, 2015, 11:51:22 am
This is the urban-centered vision that most of the young professional types have. The entrepreneurs who would build a business and stay around want this for themselves and their employees. Unfortunately, we have a mayor who in complete good faith has no idea what TheArtist is talking about, even after talking to a number of young entrepreneurs. You might as well be speaking Hmong. It just doesn't compute. I know there are some on the city council who understand, but building a political consensus to change the model in this very conservative city is very difficult, especially when the issue can be turned into a "liberal vs. conservative" wedge issue by political hacks who have no genuine concern either way. This is a huge problem.

Stated another way: No one ever lost a local election by saying that Tulsa is a really great place the way it is.


You know whats fascinating when I read your first couple of paragraphs was the thought that basically what your friend moved to was a more expensive, and compact version of what we have here.  Same thing, just more of it.   Dallas has taken that route.  It's still a suburban car culture, just done big.  Very much just as isolating in many ways and doesn't change ones cultural/societal take on things.

For instance, in a more pedestrian/transit friendly city with people living that lifestyle, your perspectives and values can shift ever so subtly yet profoundly.  The local parks become your yard and you come to value them, even if you have a small plot out back to grow flowers and vegetables.  The sidewalks are your hallways, the cafe or patisserie around the corner your breakfast nook, the local pub (and they are not all always noisy brawling places) a hang out for friends and family, the subway is another way of getting around (in London I remember one evening going out and seeing a couple of older couples in perhaps their late 60's early 70's sitting in the seats right opposite me, the ladies had on nice skirts and dress shoes a scarf thrown around their necks, the gentlemen in slacks and tweed jackets with hats on. They were laughing and carrying on a good conversation and from what I gathered were going out to a restaurant to have dinner. Not what my stereotype of what the subway was supposed to be like, but was full of everyday people of all sorts, families, children, teens, tourists, young, old, etc.)  Also every day you would see young people in suits heading off to work, children walking the sidewalks near where I lived in their school uniforms. Beautiful, quiet, tree lined streets lined with row houses were behind the apartment buildings where I lived, while just to the other side of me was a main street and subway station.  Everything in the world was right there easy breezy.  No car needed or even wanted. There a car would be more of a burden or a hassle. I couldn't imagine trying to navigate those winding mazes of streets and had no idea where anyone would park a car if they had one anyway.

Driving around here around Norman today to run some errands. I literally drove for hours, fields with lots of new homes going in (made me wonder what on earth those children did in those neighborhoods) buildings, parking lots, more fields, highways......no people.  Work to home, no people. That changes you and your outlook, and perhaps you don't even realize what it's doing to you. I always wonder if there is some connection with how we have some of the highest suicide rates in the world (higher even than our homicide rates) and the fact that we are so isolated and alone for so much of the time. We lack the sense of community and camaraderie that you seem to far more easily find in even a huge city, where you wouldn't think that would happen.

That's what I am talking about when I talk about "amenities". Being able to get everything within a short walk or quick hop on the tube. Amenities like beautiful parks and public spaces with statues and fountains, birds and all sorts of plants, right around the corner. Quiet avenues and squares, lovely old churches of mossy stone with big old trees in the lots around them over here, bustling streets full of life right over there. Stumbling across and investigating the occasional little flea market. Incredible food markets (my gosh if I could adequately describe one of the food markets I ran across one day while out randomly exploring, stall after stall after stall of glorious, scrumptious pastries and sweets of every sort imaginable surrounding you on every side.)  I don't know whether that would be a good amenity or a horrible one, but I do know I would die fat and with a smile on my whip creme and chocolate covered face right there in the middle of it all.  

Anywhoo, thats what I mean by more amenities, not just smaller home more driving and more expense so you can go to the theater or a loud club or concert (which oddly seems to be the perspective of "that's urban living" in our neck of the woods as even you seem to have put out there a bit).

Again, not saying thats for everyone, but would like the cities in our state to be able to have some good urban living, to be able to offer those types of amenities.  And yes, along with that comes a different sense of perspective and values.  And a lot of people here do not want that and will fight against it.

Frighteningly enough, just as our cities like Tulsa and OKC seem to be developing more urban cores and being able to attract or keep those types of people who like it, the prevailing attitudes in the state seem bent on destroying that progress, economically and socially.  It's like we are soooo close, making decent progress and BAM! out of the blue comes some stupid bill, tax issue, economic conundrum, face palm social issue headline, etc. to scare us into thinking all our hard work will be for naught.





Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on February 22, 2015, 02:55:02 pm
Very nice neighborhood. Too suburban for my tastes.  But again, to each his own, well at least I wish more people around here thought that.

Here are my "old stomping grounds" near the outskirts of London and when I go back to visit will like to stay in the area.  There is a great Hostel "Palmers Lodge, Swiss Cottage" there  http://palmerslodges.com/swisscottage/hostel/  Video shows the hostel and briefly the area https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eDQ93Ozyetw   stayed in a ground floor apartment at this location 24 College Cres and could walk in like 2 minutes to the Swiss Cottage tube station.  There were also numerous bus stops nearby and a "main street" type area right around the corner. Beautiful quiet streets one way, quick access to the whole world the other.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/28+College+Cres,+London+NW3+5LH,+UK/@51.5446489,-0.1750725,117m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m7!1m4!3m3!1s0x48761a906a56ade7:0x5a8c04b0d0724031!2s24+College+Cres,+London+NW3+5LL,+UK!3b1!3m1!1s0x48761a901190a271:0xbee24c8415355652

Cant figure out how to save the satellite view?

Anywhoo, you can do the street view, might have to swing around a bit to the right, just past the stores to see my apartment which was in the brown brick building facing the sidewalk on the left "Northways Parade" (hope it shows things in that direction) and I could see the white homes across the street from my window.  Turning around was my "commute" to the tube station on the Jubilee Line and turning right on Finchley Road you would go down the main street where I would get my groceries, shop and dine.  If what I wanted wasn't there, I would take the tube and in a few minutes could be at another station in a more bustling urban area that had more things.  This was a relatively quiet part of town which was nice.

That is the type of area I would like to visit.  If I were to stay somewhere for just few months I could go for that.  Too urban for me for the long haul though.

This probably made you feel like you were still in Tulsa.   ;D
(Give it a few seconds to switch to Street View)
http://goo.gl/maps/SFPu0

I can't find access to the brown brick building from College Cres.  Did they tear down the white homes visible in street view but not apparent from above?

Where I grew up was definitely suburban.  Our little spot did not require a car but a car was a great help.  Some of the reasons my parents bought here were the trolley and the convenience of the stores around the corner.  Full scale groceries were about 2 miles by car on Baltimore Pike in Clifton Heights.  Later, the suburban shopping centers started popping up.  There were several grocery stores, Penn Fruit Company and A&P were about 1-1/2 miles.  Until the shopping centers were built, the "real" shopping, department stores etc, was at 69th St.  That was also where the suburban and urban transit met. 69th St was about 5 miles by car or 20 minutes by trolley.  The trolley station was about 100 yards from our house.  69th St was a number based on Philadelphia street numbers but was actually in Upper Darby.

69th St area:  
http://goo.gl/maps/IDrB1

West Chester Pike coming in to the trolley terminal:
http://goo.gl/maps/yJjgP

69th St, looking toward the trolley terminal:
http://goo.gl/maps/OgPPQ

Or, if this is still too suburban, Phila was just to the east across Cobbs Creek.  I believe 63rd St was Phila.
http://goo.gl/maps/gQgKO



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 24, 2015, 12:28:11 pm
Oklahoma House Committee to Hear Conversion Therapy Measure

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-house-committee-hear-conversion-therapy-measure (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-house-committee-hear-conversion-therapy-measure)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201202/3467374-1800916656.JPG)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Legislation that would prohibit the state from regulating the practice of "conversion therapy" is scheduled to be heard in an Oklahoma House committee.

Conversion therapy involves a range of practices that are aimed at changing one's sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression. Other states have passed legislation to ban the practice.

The bill by Republican state Rep. Sally Kern of Oklahoma City is opposed by major medical and psychological associations who say conversion therapy is a dangerous and discredited practice. They say Kern's bill is the first of its kind in the U.S.

Kern's bill authorizes a mental health provider to engage in sexual orientation change efforts with a child under 18 and prohibits state officials from interfering in those efforts.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on February 24, 2015, 01:24:43 pm
Oklahoma House Committee to Hear Conversion Therapy Measure

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-house-committee-hear-conversion-therapy-measure (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-house-committee-hear-conversion-therapy-measure)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201202/3467374-1800916656.JPG)

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Legislation that would prohibit the state from regulating the practice of "conversion therapy" is scheduled to be heard in an Oklahoma House committee.

Conversion therapy involves a range of practices that are aimed at changing one's sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression. Other states have passed legislation to ban the practice.

The bill by Republican state Rep. Sally Kern of Oklahoma City is opposed by major medical and psychological associations who say conversion therapy is a dangerous and discredited practice. They say Kern's bill is the first of its kind in the U.S.

Kern's bill authorizes a mental health provider to engage in sexual orientation change efforts with a child under 18 and prohibits state officials from interfering in those efforts.


(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g368/CR010411/jesus-facepalm_0.jpg)


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on February 24, 2015, 01:58:18 pm
Damn it, Townsend, leave the photo out.  Now I must go gouge my eyes out!


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on February 24, 2015, 02:05:29 pm
Damn it, Townsend, leave the photo out.  Now I must go gouge my eyes out!

(http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/429912605/Spoon_Straws.jpg)



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on February 24, 2015, 02:54:07 pm
(http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/429912605/Spoon_Straws.jpg)



(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/brain_bleach2_4427.jpg)


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 24, 2015, 03:46:25 pm
Damn it, Townsend, leave the photo out.  Now I must go gouge my eyes out!

At least they stopped using her glamour shot with the feather boa.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on February 24, 2015, 03:58:37 pm
Dear God man, have you no soul?

(http://www.leospetcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/vomiting-dog-vomit.jpg)


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 26, 2015, 12:38:00 pm
Brace yourselves...

Muslim Day at the Capitol

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/muslim-day-capitol (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/muslim-day-capitol)

Quote
Muslims and members of other faith groups will rally and meet with lawmakers Friday. It’s the first annual Muslim Day at the Oklahoma State Capitol.

Extra security will be on hand, and protests are expected. But Adam Soltani with the Council on American-Islamic Relations says there’s been an outpouring of support for the Muslim community.

Soltani says the goal is to encourage Oklahoma Muslims to be active participants in the democratic process.


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on February 26, 2015, 05:56:55 pm
This story was in the Whirled last week (?), with predictable comments from some of our pointy headed fellow citizens.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on February 26, 2015, 07:19:55 pm
In OKC, proper pronunciation is “Moose Limb"


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on February 27, 2015, 11:59:36 am
In OKC, proper pronunciation is “Moose Limb"

Some really ugly photos of protesters on the World site. Apparently took sign making courses from a certain "church" in Topeka.

 


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 27, 2015, 12:23:25 pm
Some really ugly photos of protesters on the World site. Apparently took sign making courses from a certain "church" in Topeka.
 

How many legislators in the crowd?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on February 27, 2015, 01:47:13 pm
(http://kwtv.images.worldnow.com/images/6858171_G.jpg)

The video below is particularly sickening. Like something out of school desegregation.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/despite-planned-protests-oklahoma-muslim-day-at-the-capitol-expects/article_caf6dfa8-ee8c-5f5d-8950-7e4cd6ed0acb.html


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 27, 2015, 02:08:19 pm
(http://kwtv.images.worldnow.com/images/6858171_G.jpg)

The video below is particularly sickening. Like something out of school desegregation.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/despite-planned-protests-oklahoma-muslim-day-at-the-capitol-expects/article_caf6dfa8-ee8c-5f5d-8950-7e4cd6ed0acb.html



Couldn't get the video to come up, but if it is like the school segregation stuff, then you are right - the uneducated voters amongst us.

Can tell just from the signs and the text of the report just exactly how stupid these people are - if anything they spewed was true, then instead of people peacefully going into the capital, they would have been martyr bound jihadists who would have taken out all the protestors.  Kind of a self-limiting situation.

Since they did not, it proves that the lies they have been getting from O'Reilly/Hannity/Limbaugh are exactly that - lies.

Ignorance and stupidstition reign in this state!!


First ya gotta be smarter than a box of rocks....


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on March 02, 2015, 12:21:00 pm
So I'm thinking whoever places these stories doesn't like the governor much.  This is the picture used every time.

Bill Gives Oklahoma Governor Sweeping New Powers

(http://publicradiotulsa.org/sites/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201502/Fallin-SOS.jpg)

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/bill-gives-oklahoma-governor-sweeping-new-powers (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/bill-gives-oklahoma-governor-sweeping-new-powers)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma's governor would have broad new powers to appoint the directors of ten different state entities under a bill being considered by a Senate committee.

Broken Arrow Republican state Sen. Nathan Dahm is expected to present the bill Monday in the Senate General Government Committee that he chairs. It calls for the heads of ten different state agencies and boards to be fired effective Jan. 1 and allows the governor to name their replacement.

Dahm did not return telephone messages seeking comment about his bill.

Gov. Mary Fallin's spokesman Alex Weintz says his office did not request the bill, but does support its intent.

Among the affected agencies are the Oklahoma Health Care Authority and Office of Juvenile Affairs.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on March 12, 2015, 12:34:18 pm
Fiddling while Rome is burning...

Oklahoma Senate OKs Bill for Clergy to Refuse Gay Marriage

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-senate-oks-bill-clergy-refuse-gay-marriage (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-senate-oks-bill-clergy-refuse-gay-marriage)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201202/3267468-1110028488.jpg)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Legislation that protects members of the clergy who refuse to solemnize a same-sex marriage has been approved by the Oklahoma Senate.

Senators voted 39-6 for the measure Wednesday and sent it to the House, which has passed a similar bill.

The measure by Republican Senator Dan Newberry of Tulsa protects clergy members and others authorized to perform marriage ceremonies from being required to perform those duties if it conflicts with their religious beliefs. It would also shield churches from being required to participate in ceremonies that might conflict for religious reasons.

A federal judge last year struck down the state's ban on same-sex marriage. The measure is one of several that gay rights groups say discriminates against the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 12, 2015, 12:38:08 pm
Fiddling while Rome is burning...

Oklahoma Senate OKs Bill for Clergy to Refuse Gay Marriage

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-senate-oks-bill-clergy-refuse-gay-marriage (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-senate-oks-bill-clergy-refuse-gay-marriage)




It's Oklahoma.... you cannot possibly have expected anything different at this late date...

Sadly....



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on March 12, 2015, 12:40:57 pm

It's Oklahoma.... you cannot possibly have expected anything different at this late date...

Sadly....



I knew Newberry years ago.  Nice guy but wrong so often.  

I usually think stupid decisions by legislators are made to kiss up to the voters...in Dan's case, he really believes this nonsense.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on March 12, 2015, 12:43:43 pm
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26442998/Photos/10959131_10204087270882966_3965975837524870237_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 12, 2015, 01:02:08 pm
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26442998/Photos/10959131_10204087270882966_3965975837524870237_n.jpg)


I just love living here!!  Think how boring it would be anywhere else....



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: TheArtist on March 12, 2015, 08:32:18 pm
So 1, they have a bill that would make it so that you have to have a minister or someone ordained take the marriage license to a judge. Then 2. they then have a bill that says that ministers/clergy can refuse to marry gay people. 

I wonder if part of their thinking is that this will stop gay marriage because no clergy would want to marry gay people?

If they think that then they really have no idea about the real world.  When Chris and I got married we had about a hundred people (literally) who could and would have been happy to marry us.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 13, 2015, 02:26:30 pm
So 1, they have a bill that would make it so that you have to have a minister or someone ordained take the marriage license to a judge. Then 2. they then have a bill that says that ministers/clergy can refuse to marry gay people.  

I wonder if part of their thinking is that this will stop gay marriage because no clergy would want to marry gay people?

If they think that then they really have no idea about the real world.  When Chris and I got married we had about a hundred people (literally) who could and would have been happy to marry us.


One of the kids got ordained just so she could marry a couple of good friends.  Not an impediment, is it?

Out of Oklahoma, of course.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: guido911 on March 13, 2015, 05:55:04 pm
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/oklahoma-dem-amendment-christian-businesses-must-post-notice-of-anti-gay-discrimination/


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on March 16, 2015, 11:57:18 am
Snowball, Hell.  Hell, snowball:

Oklahoma Legislature Considering Online Voter Registration

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-legislature-considering-online-voter-registration (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-legislature-considering-online-voter-registration)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — More than a third of Oklahoma's eligible voters aren't registered, so lawmakers are considering allowing online registration to make the process more convenient and renew interest in elections.

State Election Board statistics show that more than 2.1 million people were registered to vote in January 2005. Ten years later and about 10 percent more residents, 119,280 fewer Oklahoma residents were registered to vote.

Last year's general election drew less than 30 percent of Oklahoma's eligible voters.

Republican Sen. David Holt says the registration issue is part of the reason. Legislation he authored would create a secure online voter registration system for the state like those in place in 23 other states.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: guido911 on March 16, 2015, 04:07:47 pm
Snowball, Hell.  Hell, snowball:

Oklahoma Legislature Considering Online Voter Registration

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-legislature-considering-online-voter-registration (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-legislature-considering-online-voter-registration)


It's discriminatory favoring the rich. Only they can afford computers.  ::)


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: saintnicster on March 16, 2015, 07:20:41 pm
Snowball, Hell.  Hell, snowball:

Oklahoma Legislature Considering Online Voter Registration

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-legislature-considering-online-voter-registration (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-legislature-considering-online-voter-registration)

While it will be welcome, I assume that they're going to try to write their own system, rather than purchasing something that already exists :/


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on March 17, 2015, 11:24:17 am
Panel OKs Bill Prohibiting Payroll Deductions for Union Dues

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/panel-oks-bill-prohibiting-payroll-deductions-union-dues (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/panel-oks-bill-prohibiting-payroll-deductions-union-dues)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A bill that prohibits Oklahoma school districts from making payroll deductions for its employees for union membership has narrowly passed a state Senate committee.

The Senate General Government Committee voted 4-3 Monday for the bill by Republican Sen. Nathan Dahm of Broken Arrow, the chairman of the committee. The bill already passed the House and now heads to the full Senate for consideration.

The bill's approval came despite opposition from the state's two largest teacher unions — the Oklahoma Education Association and the American Federation of Teachers.

Dahm says he doesn't believe the state should be in the business of making payroll deductions.

But Westmoore High School teacher Elise Robillard says the bill unfairly targets Oklahoma teachers who already are suffering from low morale.

"Dahm says he doesn't believe the state should be in the business of making payroll deductions."   WAT


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on April 06, 2015, 08:40:30 am
Group Says Oklahoma Bill Threatens Federal Flood Insurance

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/group-says-oklahoma-bill-threatens-federal-flood-insurance (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/group-says-oklahoma-bill-threatens-federal-flood-insurance)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/burbank_flooding.jpg)

Quote
TULSA, Okla. (AP) — A group responsible for managing Oklahoma's floodplains says bills moving through the Legislature that prohibit cities from regulating oil and natural gas drilling operations could prevent the state from participating in the National Flood Insurance Program.

The Tulsa World reports that the Oklahoma Floodplain Managers Association has sent a letter to lawmakers warning that the local control legislation might prevent flood insurance policies from being written and renewed.

The bills would limit the ability of local governments to regulate drilling issues including setbacks, noise, odor and dust. They would also prohibit local governments from banning drilling.

The National Flood Insurance Program requires participating communities to adopt and enforce an ordinance that reduces the risk of flooding in the 100-year floodplain. In return, the federal government provides subsidized flood insurance.

As long as the oil industry is okay though...

"Should've built your town on higher ground..."


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 06, 2015, 09:21:33 am
It's discriminatory favoring the rich. Only they can afford computers.  ::)


They can go to the library.

Maybe read a book while there, too!  That's what I tell all the family kids....


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on April 13, 2015, 12:08:02 pm
Small government! We don't need a big central government telling us what to do. Central government is corrupt, inefficient, and subservient to special interest groups!

Oh wait, what? Local government disagrees with some of what I want? Then let me clarify.

WE need the Central Government in Washington to leave the local government here in Oklahoma City by and for the Great State of Oklahoma well enough alone. But the People of Oklahoma need us here in Oklahoma City to keep the local governments from oppressing them. Because central government knows best.

I can has oil check now?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 14, 2015, 06:16:04 pm
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26442998/Photos/10959131_10204087270882966_3965975837524870237_n.jpg)


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/14/oklahoma-republicans-likened-poor-people-to-animals-and-then-called-it-todays-lesson-in-irony/


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on September 23, 2015, 12:49:31 pm
We just can't not look like a-holes...

Oklahoma Congressman Seeks Ranger School Records after Women Graduate

http://publicradiotulsa.org/term/local-regional (http://publicradiotulsa.org/term/local-regional)

Quote
COLUMBUS, Ga. (AP) — An Oklahoma congressman is seeking training records from the Army Ranger School at Georgia's Fort Benning, where two soldiers made history last month by becoming the first females to graduate.

The Columbus Ledger-Enquirer reports that Republican Rep. Steve Russell is asking the Secretary of the Army for paperwork documenting the women's performance.

Russell's spokesman, Daniel Susskind, said the congressman is asking for the records to make sure that soldiers who passed the course deserved to do so.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on February 01, 2016, 12:46:10 pm
What are Key Issues for Oklahoma Legislature as it Returns?

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/what-are-key-issues-oklahoma-legislature-it-returns (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/what-are-key-issues-oklahoma-legislature-it-returns)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma legislators return to the Capitol on Monday facing an economic crisis and other troubling issues.

A sharp drop in oil and gas prices has cut revenues to key businesses, which has reduced state revenues. Lawmakers expect to see about a $1 billion budget shortfall for the next fiscal year.

Lawmakers are also expected to discuss the sharp rise in the number of earthquakes, an increase linked to the injection of wastewater underground from oil and gas production.

Also expected to be discussed are ways to raise teacher pay and possibly consider consolidation of some state schools; criminal justice and possibly reducing the penalties for some crimes to ease prison crowding; and a move to amend the state Constitution so a Ten Commandments monument could be erected at the state Capitol.

Glad they're working on that last one...super duper important considering Oklahoma is the suckiest suck to ever suck a suck.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on February 01, 2016, 01:04:45 pm
What are Key Issues for Oklahoma Legislature as it Returns?

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/what-are-key-issues-oklahoma-legislature-it-returns (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/what-are-key-issues-oklahoma-legislature-it-returns)

Glad they're working on that last one...super duper important considering Oklahoma is the suckiest suck to ever suck a suck.

Fallin wants more money for corrections. Oklahoma already leads the planet on locking people up. We need to spend MORE? Cut education (and everything else) but spend more money on prisons. And of course a brand new bond issue for the capitol building.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/fallin-talks-priorities-for-legislative-session/article_15ab41d0-0cb5-5fbe-95ab-8341aa022156.html
Quote
Gov. Mary Fallin on Monday will propose additional dollars for the financially troubled Oklahoma Department of Corrections.
The agency is housing a rising number offenders and has problems retaining correctional officers and staffing prisons


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 01, 2016, 02:25:39 pm
Yay for millions more in legal expenses for a lost cause trying to teach people that they aren't welcome here!  Woohoo! If you ain't Christian and wiling to wear it on your sleeve and pray on the street corner, you ain't welcome!

The monument was ruled unconstitutional because the State of Oklahoma cannot use public resources/property to directly or indirectly benefit any religion, and especially cannot do so to benefit one, or some religions over others.

What's the Amendment going to say that will still pass Federal constitutional muster?

"We hereby Amend the Oklahoma Constitution to allow state resources to be expended to benefit our chosen religion to the exclusion of all others, in Jesus name we pray, Amen."



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 02, 2016, 10:07:47 am
Yay for millions more in legal expenses for a lost cause trying to teach people that they aren't welcome here!  Woohoo! If you ain't Christian and wiling to wear it on your sleeve and pray on the street corner, you ain't welcome!

The monument was ruled unconstitutional because the State of Oklahoma cannot use public resources/property to directly or indirectly benefit any religion, and especially cannot do so to benefit one, or some religions over others.

What's the Amendment going to say that will still pass Federal constitutional muster?

"We hereby Amend the Oklahoma Constitution to allow state resources to be expended to benefit our chosen religion to the exclusion of all others, in Jesus name we pray, Amen."





Just more of the same.... no one here could realistically expect anything different or any kind of improvement.

But ya gotta keep trying....

As I have said many times, since I first plagiarized this from someone - I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.





Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on February 02, 2016, 10:47:44 am
Add Anthony Sykes to the list of worst legislators for introducing a bill to re-instate a law repealed as being archaic in 2004.  According to KRMG on the morning drive, the bill would seek to prevent someone from getting married should they have an STD.  I think the Constitution might have something to say about that but count on good ol’ Scott Pruitt to fight for this if it passes and is challenged.

“We want less government intrusion!  Oh, excuse us for intruding on your bedroom!"

Quote
Bill would require a blood test for STDs to get Oklahoma marriage license

OKLAHOMA CITY — An Oklahoma lawmaker wants those seeking marriage licenses to be tested for diseases.

Sen. Anthony Sykes, R-Moore, is the author of Senate Bill 733. Sykes did not respond to a request for comment.

“The State Board of Health shall require a blood test for the discovery of syphilis and other communicable or infectious diseases prior to the issuance of a marriage license,” according to the measure.

Applicants shall first file with the court clerk a certificate or affidavit from an Oklahoma licensed physician stating that each party has been given a blood test and that in the opinion of the physician, the applicants are not infected with syphilis or other communicable or infectious diseases, according to the bill.
If infected, that such diseases are not in a stage which may be communicable to the marriage partner, according to the bill.

The measure was not requested by the Oklahoma State Department of Health, said Jan Fox, director of the agency’s HIV/STD Service.

Legislation repealing a blood test for syphilis prior to getting a license was passed in 2004, she said. Data had shown in the prior five years, there were about 300,000 premarital tests for syphilis performed in Oklahoma with only 5 new cases confirmed, she said.

“What I would say is that just as it was in 2004, premarital testing for syphilis or any other infectious disease does not appear to have any usefulness for disease control efforts,” Fox said.

Those applying for marriage licenses were not people at risk of acquiring it, she said.

Nationally and in Oklahoma, the number of sexually transmitted diseases is on the rise for a number of reasons, she said.

Very good testing is available, she said. In addition, a number of people place themselves at risk, she said.

“It is very easy to find sex partners and easy to find anonymous sex partners,” she said. “That seems to be fueling the increase.”

Ryan Kiesel, American Civil Liberties Union of Oklahoma executive director, said the measure is built on the false premise that most wait to have sex until after they are married.

“I think there is certainly a potential Oklahomans could have very private medical data revealed to the public under this measure,” Kiesel said.

He said it is bizarre that a politician would run for office under the mantle of family values but work so hard to keep so many people from joining together to form a family.

Troy Stevenson is the executive director of Freedom Oklahoma, which supports same-sex marriage.

“We have real concerns about this blood test legislation and those concerns have yet to be answered,” Stevenson said. “It looks like this is targeting the HIV/AIDS community.”

He said the legislation appears to target people with communicable diseases.

As of Friday, the measure had been assigned to the Senate Judiciary Committee. Sykes chairs the committee, which meets on Tuesday. As of 5 p.m. Friday, the list of bills for consideration had not been posted.
Barbara Hoberock 405-528-2465

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/bill-would-require-a-blood-test-for-stds-to-get/article_79ec8f4d-85c2-5ae2-8f39-03759d9da210.html


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on February 02, 2016, 11:09:01 am
Add Anthony Sykes to the list of worst legislators for introducing a bill to re-instate a law repealed as being archaic in 2004.  According to KRMG on the morning drive, the bill would seek to prevent someone from getting married should they have an STD.  I think the Constitution might have something to say about that but count on good ol’ Scott Pruitt to fight for this if it passes and is challenged.

“We want less government intrusion!  Oh, excuse us for intruding on your bedroom!"



Why is the state even in the marriage business?   


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on February 02, 2016, 11:48:19 am

Why is the state even in the marriage business?   

Money.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: saintnicster on February 03, 2016, 09:25:41 am
Money.
  HA!  If they really wanted money, they'd open marriage up for everyone, not enforcing some BS morality play


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on April 27, 2016, 11:41:58 am
Oklahoma Call for Constitutional Convention Wins Final Approval

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-call-constitutional-convention-wins-final-approval (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-call-constitutional-convention-wins-final-approval)

Quote
A measure stating Oklahoma’s desire for a Constitutional Convention won final approval Tuesday by the state Senate.

House members passed Senate Joint Resolution 4 last week with amendments, meaning it needed another vote by senators.

Sen. Anthony Sykes was among the 16 "No" votes.

"I do not trust the other state legislatures to be of like mind," Sykes said. "Certainly, Oklahoma is one of the more conservative states in America, and I don't think we can do as good a job as our Founding Fathers did."

Sen. Mike Mazzei told his colleagues a required majority vote for proposed amendments’ ratification will serve as a check and balance.

"If the convention turns out to do a bad job or run away with too many changes, there's just no way that 38 states, 38 bodies like you, are going to ratify something stupid," Mazzei said.

Sen. Nathan Dahm suggested the measure, which mentions a balanced budget amendment, doesn’t go far enough and voted against it.

"This bill deals with appropriated federal dollars, one-third of the budget," Dahm said. "Out of that $3.7 trillion, $2.5 trillion will not be touched under this. That is a major reason for concern."

The measure has been in the works since last February. In all, 34 states must request a convention for Congress to call one. Oklahoma is the 29th.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on April 27, 2016, 01:34:53 pm
That's 33 states that have called for a Constitutional Convention. 4 rescinded. But now that Oklahoma has raised the call, the right wingers are waiting for one more state to do so and they have announced plans to sue the three states that rescinded in an effort to force a constitutional convention.  Calls have been raised for Anti-Polygamy amendments, balanced budget (most common), tax limits on the wealthy, prevention of a one world federation, and term limits.

Oklahoma called for a convention for:
Quote
(1) Balanced Budget Amendment; and (2) Fiscal restraints on the federal government, limiting the power and jurisdiction of the federal government, and limiting the terms of office of federal officials, including members of Congress

Balanced budget amendment will never happen and most economists and policy experts say would be an utter disaster. "Fiscal restraints" means nothing, particularly coming from Oklahoma's $1bil+ deficit. "Limiting the power and jurisdiction of the Federal Government" already is in the constitution, need some clarity there. And terms limits in Oklahoma haven't seemed to do anything to improve the stock of our legislative body - so why would we do better in DC (if I want to keep electing the same idiot, why can't I)?

The stupid thing is - any state can propose any changes at the convention. It is the nuclear option. Want to strip out separation of church and state? Reinstate slavery? Re-up prohibition? Ban gay marriage? Adopt Sharia law (or whatever it is called when it is Christian fundamentalist law)? Whatever the convention decides to do then goes to a vote of the States. 

I will take our chances with the "more perfect" union I sit under now, as opposed to risking my fate to the yahoos in OKC.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: PonderInc on May 01, 2016, 09:24:52 pm
I'm amazed the "con-con" hasn't gotten more attention.  This is the most dangerous thing the idiots in OKC have done in a long time...and that's saying something!

Basically, it's never been done, and nobody really knows how it would work, or what could happen.  But there's absolutely no way to limit the discussion to a debate about a balanced budget.  Basically, should a few more states sign on, the entire US Constitution would be up for debate.

Hey, let's toss out over 200 years of legal precedents and settled law!  Great idea!  We can start from scratch on that old constitution thing... and re-litigate it all over again!  Cool! (Might need to go ahead and get a 9th justice...)

I'm amazed that major corporations haven't been screaming about this, because it would certainly create the type of uncertainty that businesses hate.  As an average citizen, I'm terrified by the prospect of our current crop of idiots getting their grubby hands on the constitution.  I'll take my Bill of Rights and my voting rights and my civil rights unmolested, thanks.  If necessary, we can amend the constitution the old fashioned way.  One specific issue/amendment at a time.




Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on May 02, 2016, 09:51:53 am

I will take our chances with the "more perfect" union I sit under now, as opposed to risking my fate to the yahoos in OKC.


Here's an idea:  When you write a bad law, blame the judiciary when they enforce what you wrote instead of what you meant.


(CNN) An Oklahoma lawmaker is promising to close what he called a "court-created loophole" in state law that blocked the prosecution of a teenager accused of sexually assaulting a drunken girl two years ago and set off cries of protest around the nation.
"I am horrified by the idea that we would allow these depraved rapists to face a lower charge simply because the victim is unconscious," Rep. Scott Biggs said earlier this week in announcing plans to rush a fix through the legislature.

The Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals ruled March 24 that a lower court judge was right to dismiss a forcible oral sodomy charge against a teenaged suspect because state law doesn't mention intoxication or unconsciousness among the five criteria describing the crime.

Biggs, a former prosecutor, said he thought the judges got bogged down on details and lost sight of the big picture.
"I think the judges made a grave error, but if they need more clarification, we are happy to give it to them by fixing the statute," he said. "Unfortunately, legal minds often get stuck on questions of semantics, when it is clear to most of us what the intent of the law is."


http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/29/us/oklahoma-sodomy-laws-inebriation/



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: rebound on May 02, 2016, 10:13:30 am
As the father of a 17 year old girl, I read up on this one pretty closely and am of two minds about it.   First, I completely agree that just because intoxication is not mentioned in the law is no reason not to prosecute.  This alone should not have factored into the decision and it's embarrassing to the state that it did.   However, as also the father of a 15 year old boy, it is very troubling that charges could be brought against a boy in this case.   To quote from one of the linked articles:

Afterward, the boy’s attorney mind bogglingly explained, “There was absolutely no evidence of force or him doing anything to make this girl give him oral sex other than she was too intoxicated to consent.” That last part is kind of what it’s all about, thanks!

And my question here is how do you prosecute this?  What is the level of intoxication needed for consent, etc?   It's troubling from both sides, and I don't know if there is an easy answer here.




Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 02, 2016, 12:10:31 pm
As the father of a 17 year old girl, I read up on this one pretty closely and am of two minds about it.   First, I completely agree that just because intoxication is not mentioned in the law is no reason not to prosecute.  This alone should not have factored into the decision and it's embarrassing to the state that it did.   However, as also the father of a 15 year old boy, it is very troubling that charges could be brought against a boy in this case.   To quote from one of the linked articles:

Afterward, the boy’s attorney mind bogglingly explained, “There was absolutely no evidence of force or him doing anything to make this girl give him oral sex other than she was too intoxicated to consent.” That last part is kind of what it’s all about, thanks!

And my question here is how do you prosecute this?  What is the level of intoxication needed for consent, etc?   It's troubling from both sides, and I don't know if there is an easy answer here.





It would all just be so much easier if kids weren't just stupid tools from about 14 to about 30 or so....but we were all there at one time.  Some of us even later....

Very troubling.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on May 03, 2016, 06:23:49 am
Even Snopes has chimed in on the god awful coverage and memes from this ruling. (http://www.snopes.com/oklahoma-court-rape-ruling/) It is basically all shenanigans. If anything, it is rightfully listed here under horrible legislature. But the real story is that the pubic lacks a basic understanding of how our justice system works and the media doesn't care to get the story right when they can just feed outrage.

If you want a little more on it, a former federal prosecutor explains why the Court's ruling was correct. (https://popehat.com/2016/04/28/regarding-that-oklahoma-rape-decision-youre-outraged-about/)

What the defendant is alleged to have done IS a crime (he apparently says she instigated, but evidence suggests she was terribly intoxicated), but under the crime that he was charged under. If the law says "force" is required, then you need to have force included in the facts. The Defendant was likely charged under Forcible Oral Sodomy (instead of sexual battery) because he could be charged as an adult, denied bail on appeal, and face 20 years instead of 10. Prosecutors are often encouraged to stretch the charges in order to force a plea deal - in this instance, they picked a charge that was too high and a Court through it out.

It isn't clear to me if they will be able to file Sexual Battery charges against the Defendant in juvenile court

HOW INTOXICATED IS TOO INTOXICATED?

There is no easy definition that I'm aware of in Oklahoma. Basically, if the victim is so intoxicated they do not understand the consequences of their actions then they are unable to give consent (for sexual acts, they can still give consent to the police for DUI breathalyzers, searchers, etc.). The phrase "too intoxicated to consent" doesn't appear in Oklahoma case law and our rape law involving intoxication was updated in 2011, so older case law may not be instructive anyway. Nationally, case law suggests the victim has to be "over the line" type of drunk for it to be rape, not merely tipsy.

The rule taught on college campuses now is engage in sexual conduct with a drunk person at your own risk. Because there is lots of gray area, any conduct with any level of drunk person could put you at risk of criminal charges.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on May 19, 2016, 04:45:23 pm
We made national news again

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/05/19/okla-lawmakers-ok-bill-make-performing-abortion-felony/84593624/

check out the Swastika tie 
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/89deff096e84b50a2bb5868cd6fc7bccdf050417/c=88-0-2752-3552&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/2016/05/19/USATODAY/USATODAY/635992603141951514-AP-Oklahoma-Legislature.jpg


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on May 19, 2016, 08:54:41 pm
Too bad they demolished Hissom, they could have used it to house the children born from rape cases, and unwanted pregnancies.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on May 19, 2016, 09:17:04 pm
It's long past time to change the title of this thread. 2nd my a$$.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 20, 2016, 08:47:33 am
Just think.... 2/3 of the people around any of you every day of the world are the ones voting for this.  Unless you are one of the 2/3!!  Gotta be so proud of our circle of friends, acquaintances, and co-workers!!




Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on May 20, 2016, 12:34:19 pm
Just think.... 2/3 of the people around any of you every day of the world are the ones voting for this.  Unless you are one of the 2/3!!  Gotta be so proud of our circle of friends, acquaintances, and co-workers!!

Makes a recall vote unlikely, so the AG gets a blank check and the crazy continues:


Oklahoma Introduces Measure To Impeach Obama Over Transgender Bathroom Rights
State lawmakers also want to take down the U.S. attorney general and the U.S. secretary of education.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oklahoma-introduces-measure-to-impeach-obama_us_573f34a7e4b0613b512a12fb

State Representative John Bennett, a Republican, said in a statement the White House directive was "biblically wrong," and a violation of state sovereignty.
It also allows the attorney general to file lawsuits to implement the changes.

The measure was introduced just hours after lawmakers in the budget-challenged state set itself up for a bruising legal fight after approving a bill that would make abortions a felony punishable by up to three years in prison for doctors who perform them.






Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on May 21, 2016, 07:10:58 am
According to Brian Bingman, the legislature’s actions are not to blame, it’s the media’s attention on it:

Quote
State Senate leader Brian Bingman blames media for focus on social issues

Related story: Oklahoma Senate passes bill to make it a felony to perform abortions

Related story: Oklahoma lawmakers call for president’s impeachment, file religious-accommodation bill over bathroom directive


Oklahoma’s top state Senate leader says the Legislature is focused on core issues such as education, transportation and health care but that the media’s focus on social issues such as abortion has distracted from that.

Senate President Pro Tem Brian Bingman criticized the media while speaking to the Tulsa World during a fundraiser Thursday night in Tulsa, just hours after the Senate passed a bill that would make performing abortions a felony in the state.

“That’s the media’s doing,” said Bingman, R-Sapulpa.

“They can pick and choose and they can elevate the issue and people call and (say), ‘Is that really what you all are doing?’ My focus has been on the budget this year.”

Bingman is one of two authors of legislation introduced this week responding to federal guidelines relating to transgender people’s access to bathrooms.

He made his comments during the Center for Legislative Excellence’s spring reception at the Tulsa Historical Society. The nonpartisan political action committee prioritizes transportation, education and health care and raises money to elect like-minded legislators.

The bathroom bill is co-authored by House Speaker Jeff Hickman, R-Fairview, and would allow students to cite their religious beliefs in order to be exempted from using restrooms where transgender people are allowed.

A resolution also was filed Thursday calling for the impeachment of President Barack Obama.

At this late point in the session, new legislation can be filed only by leadership members such as Bingman or Hickman.

Bingman maintained Thursday that funding core services is his priority and that the legislation touching on social issues is just what gains the most attention.

The Legislature is facing a $1.3 billion budget hole for next year. It must adjourn by May 27.

Legislators have been piecing together a budget in light of a major revenue shortfall, making compromises along the way — which entails making tough decisions, Bingman said.

“Everybody’s got their idea about how to get there,” he said. “It’s kind of a three-legged stool between the governor, the Senate and the House.”

As far as the abortion bill, Bingman said he is pro-life and that the bill’s passage was meant to be more than just a message, despite the fact that the U.S. Supreme Court legalized the procedure in 1973.

“The Supreme Court shouldn’t be meddling in states’ rights affairs. It’s a constant battle,” he said. “The majority of Oklahomans are conservative and pro-life. That unborn child has rights, too. We want to do everything we can to protect that.”

Gov. Mary Fallin vetoed the bill Friday, saying it was unconstitutional.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/state-senate-leader-brian-bingman-blames-media-for-focus-on/article_dd7a0af2-68c1-5edd-a995-bedf3371c271.html


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on May 21, 2016, 08:58:31 am
According to Brian Bingman, the legislature’s actions are not to blame, it’s the media’s attention on it:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/state-senate-leader-brian-bingman-blames-media-for-focus-on/article_dd7a0af2-68c1-5edd-a995-bedf3371c271.html

If their focus has been on the budget, then pancakes do we have a budget deficit like we do?

These lawmakers are buffoons.  Each and every one of them.  Their faces are all punchable.

edit:  Really?  W T F is a censored term now?  Wow.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Vashta Nerada on May 21, 2016, 06:13:50 pm
It's long past time to change the title of this thread. 2nd my a$$.



There are other state legislatures that are for sale fit the bill:


When a cop leaves marks on you, they are required to file charges against you to cover their tracks.
Now a national police union wants to pile Hate Crime charges on top of that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/05/21/this-state-is-about-to-become-the-first-where-targeting-police-is-a-hate-crime/


While hate-crime laws often refer to ethnicity or disability or gender, Louisiana is about to do something different. The state is poised to become the first in the nation where police will be a protected class under hate-crime law — a move that comes amid a simmering national debate about police shootings and whether that debate has given rise to an anti-law-enforcement climate.

The Louisiana legislation is labeled as “Blue Lives Matter” — a phrase popularized in response to the Black Lives Matter movement, which exploded following the fatal 2014 police shooting of an unarmed black teenager, Michael Brown, in Ferguson, Mo.

Black Lives Matter activists have protested what they deem as excessive force by police, and they have called attention to specific instances in which police shot unarmed civilians.

But those who respond with “Blue Lives Matter” argue it’s officers who are under assault — that criticism of police fosters animosity toward law enforcement.

Louisiana House Bill 953 faced little opposition from lawmakers; the House passed it 91-0, and the state Senate approved it 33-3. The bill now heads to the desk of Gov. John Bel Edwards (D).

“Talking heads on television and inflammatory rhetoric on social media are inciting acts of hatred and violence toward our nation’s peace officers,” Chuck Canterbury, national president of the Fraternal Order of Police, said in a statement. “Our members are increasingly under fire by individuals motivated by nothing more than a desire to kill or injure a cop.”

The numbers disagree

In 2015, 124 officers died in the line of duty, according to the National Law Enforcement Memorial Fund. The number of officers fatally shot declined, falling to 42 from 49 a year earlier, while the overall number of deaths increased because of more traffic accidents and job-related illnesses.  Fatal shootings of officers has decreased over the previous few decades — from an average of 127 in the 1970s to 57 yearly between 2000 and 2009.

But many officers and their relatives have said they feel greater tension with the increased attention to fatal shootings by police.

Louisiana state Rep. Lance Harris (R), who authored the hate-crime bill, has pointed to high-profile cases in arguing for his bill.

Harris cited the brazen and deadly ambush of two New York police officers in December of 2014 and a drive-by shooting that wounded a firefighter that same month in Florida.

No other state includes police officers as a protected class under hate-crime laws, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. But at least 37 states — including Louisiana — have enhanced penalties for assaulting police officers.

In some states, hurting a police officer can be an “aggravating factor” to an assault or battery charge. And in many states, killing a police officer can be an aggravating factor or circumstance, making a crime eligible for the death penalty.

“By treating the police as specialized citizens held above criticism and the laws they are charged to enforce, we lose our ability to exercise our First Amendment right” say civil rights watchdogs. “Including ‘police’ as a protected class in hate crime legislation would serve to provide more protection to an institution that is statistically proven to be racist in action, policy, and impact.”






Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on May 21, 2016, 06:42:42 pm
Their faces are all punchable.

Memorable quote of the week.  Thank you!


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 23, 2016, 03:03:03 pm

The numbers disagree

In 2015, 124 officers died in the line of duty, according to the National Law Enforcement Memorial Fund. The number of officers fatally shot declined, falling to 42 from 49 a year earlier, while the overall number of deaths increased because of more traffic accidents and job-related illnesses.  Fatal shootings of officers has decreased over the previous few decades — from an average of 127 in the 1970s to 57 yearly between 2000 and 2009.



So when they have a wreck because they are busy playing Rickie Racer and doing their best "Fast And Furious" imitation qualifies as protected status.

Or "job-related illnesses".... Bah!  I disagree...heart attack from donut overload does not qualify!




Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 25, 2016, 04:38:47 pm
While every other state agency is getting cut.  Gutted in some cases, like education.

Guess who gets a huge $9 million increase, bringing their budget to $13 million??

Legislators services, of course.  New computers all around !!!


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/most-oklahoma-agencies-see-cuts-but-there-s-a-big/article_b04a453e-9566-5548-a4c8-e8099185400c.html


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on May 25, 2016, 09:15:03 pm
While every other state agency is getting cut.  Gutted in some cases, like education.

Guess who gets a huge $9 million increase, bringing their budget to $13 million??

Legislators services, of course.  New computers all around !!!


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/most-oklahoma-agencies-see-cuts-but-there-s-a-big/article_b04a453e-9566-5548-a4c8-e8099185400c.html


Remember this come November, people.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 26, 2016, 07:31:45 am
Remember this come November, people.


There is no hope....




Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 26, 2016, 08:46:10 am
And now Okrahoma has joined in the insanity of calling for a constitutional convention.  Like we need another 'can of worms'.

And even Scott Pruitt has a comment about it.... 


http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlindsay/2016/05/25/was-americas-1787-constitutional-convention-illegal/#3a51093d382d



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on May 26, 2016, 01:19:36 pm
Now it comes out that schools have been cut, just not in general funding. In the details of the budget there’s $80 million in new cuts including activities funding, the state department of education and all funding for text books was cut.  The claim of “no new cuts to education” was just a scam and a lie to confuse people that don’t really pay attention.

Thank goodness they were able to maintain the tax cuts on energy production and the rich. We should be thankful we've only had seven earthquakes since Monday. 

The race to the bottom continues. It’s time to remind the legislature that they don’t really just represent the energy industry.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/education/new-details-state-budget-agreement-slashes-funds-for-school-activities/article_4ad00259-1634-5fab-9ba6-3cfc575f723f.html


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on May 26, 2016, 01:36:43 pm
Now it comes out that schools have been cut, just not in general funding. In the details of the budget there’s $80 million in new cuts including activities funding, the state department of education and all funding for text books was cut.  The claim of “no new cuts to education” was just a scam and a lie to confuse people that don’t really pay attention.

Thank goodness they were able to maintain the tax cuts on energy production and the rich. We should be thankful we've only had seven earthquakes since Monday. 

The race to the bottom continues. It’s time to remind the legislature that they don’t really just represent the energy industry.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/education/new-details-state-budget-agreement-slashes-funds-for-school-activities/article_4ad00259-1634-5fab-9ba6-3cfc575f723f.html


(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/26/26ce03d2fee66c1f5406fb0def115e76f8672b01577948536ce531c87bdee3fd.jpg)



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 26, 2016, 11:24:26 pm
Found an interesting re-write of Congressional testimony from the McCarthy era.  Directed at our legislator.


"Until this moment, Senators and Representatives, I think I never really gauged your cruelty, or your recklessness. Little did I dream you could be so reckless and so cruel as to do this deep an injury to this state. It is, I regret to say, equally true that I fear we shall always bear a scar needlessly inflicted by you all. You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sirs, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?"

Remember in November!!



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on May 27, 2016, 06:41:40 am
You are preaching to the saved. In conversations with these rural legislators they appear to be smug, confident and secure in their beliefs that they are doing the best job possible for their constituents. In fact they may be the best their districts can offer up. Meanwhile, our representatives are overwhelmed in numbers and lack the power to effect change. In fact they may not even be comfortable with the word "change" being such a progressive, liberal, Obama type verb. We are no better, continually electing the likes of Brightenstein, the Red Rooter and Doobie. They don't even run as Republicans anymore. Simply "Conservative".

I have no hope for this state. It is and always has been dominated by fundamentalist religious doctrine lubricated with petroleum interests. There is an outside chance that if enough teachers are elected in the next few years that the ship may right itself but we resemble what is happening in the Canadian north country right now.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on May 27, 2016, 07:16:13 am
Wait, I thought we were going to be fine because there is plenty of money and there will not be a budget shortfall. That's what we were all told. Hell, the legislator voted on it and I believe every single Republican confirmed that we would not have a revenue failure so we can go ahead with additional tax cuts and subsidies.

This is a manufactured crisis. Designed and created to make a budget shortfall and thereby give them an opportunity to kill programs they don't like. Environmental quality. Dam inspections (2000 dams and we will be down to 20 inspectors). Higher education. Public education. Mine & Manufacturing safety inspection. Social programs. Find something on the cut list that really pains the right wingers.

Step 1: Cut taxes and give away money
Step 2: Run out of money and pretend to be surprised
Step 3: Destroy programs the party platform speaks out against



I've come up with a translator:

State Rights = ability to be a bigot

Job Creators = most people will be screwed by this legislation

Economic Incentive = corporate welfare

Family Values = being hateful to someone not in my "family"

XYZ is a Priority = XYZ only gets lip service

Fiscally Conservative = tax breaks for the wealthiest, cuts for everyone else, core services fail

Local Control = they're talking about control from OKC, "local" to the state legislators

No additional cuts = you better believe there are additional cuts

Stand on our values = lose another lawsuit


I like conservative government. Real, pragmatic conservative government. One that admits it isn't the answer to all of your problems. That knows it cannot create jobs. One that acknowledges there are core services that it needs to do well to enable the citizens to proposer on their own: education, infrastructure, public safety, and yes - providing a safety net. I will even add aiding in the quality of life of its citizens (parks, museums, libraries, public beauty. These aren't "just" luxuries).  Above all, provide stability.

Pragmatic in that you have to acknowledge that some ideologically driven decisions are stupid. Refusing a billion dollars a year because you hate Obama is stupid. Passing unconstitutional laws that you expect to be thrown out is stupid. Passing hateful symbolic laws that have cost other states measurable GDP is stupid. Spending time during the session to erect religious monuments for the State while waiting for the last day to do the budget is stupid.  In each of those instances, the pragmatic decision is to tackle your ideological issue using other means, because the direct approach only makes your statement, it doesn't help your state.

If the Democrats had all the offices, I'm sure they would be doing stupid crap and I'd be happy to jump them too. But for the last ~ decade in Oklahoma, that hasn't been the case. This is an embarrassment.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Vashta Nerada on May 28, 2016, 05:25:02 pm

So when they have a wreck because they are busy playing Rickie Racer and doing their best "Fast And Furious" imitation qualifies as protected status.



A bill signed into law by Gov. John Bel Edwards on Thursday set off a debate over whether the measure was really needed to protect officers, or whether, as civil rights groups charged, it was an effort to dilute the basic meaning of hate crimes and to undermine the movement protesting the use of force by the police. A similar bill is pending in Congress.

“Hate crimes law is based upon a history of discrimination against certain groups of people, and a bill like this just tries to water down that reality, because there is not a history of discrimination against police and firefighters” countered the N.A.A.C.P.

“At some point, someone might suggest that abortion physicians should also be protected...That if you are hunted down because of your profession, whatever the profession, that should be a hate crime.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/27/us/louisiana-enacts-hate-crimes-law-to-protect-a-new-group-police.html


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Hoss on May 31, 2016, 08:32:49 am
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/28/oklahoma-abortion-transgender-bathroom-bill-mary-fallin


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on June 02, 2016, 03:20:33 pm
Ziva Branstetter with The Frontier takes a stab at just how bad our legislature is.  It’s so bad and corrupt it seems, even shamed and corrupt former governor David Walters is chiming in.

Not quite sure the bathroom encounter at the McDonald’s on the Turner Turnpike between some some mis-guided Christian zealot and a lesbian is really essential to the story, but please stick with it to the end.

Quote
Legislature’s focus on ‘dog whistle’ politics harms state, critics say

"You don’t get that much crazy in one day by accident, even in Oklahoma state government," said former Gov. David Walters

Just how far things have gone became clear for Aislinn Burrows and her wife, Carmen, when they stopped at McDonald’s on the turnpike between Tulsa and Oklahoma City recently.

Probably more than half the state has stopped at one time or another at the W. D. “Bill” Hoback Plaza, which has “nice clean bathrooms” according to Foursquare reviews. In recent years, the restaurant was updated with Route 66 art and the bathrooms usually are clean and well-tended.

On this day, however, when Carmen left the car to use the restroom, another woman in the bathroom approached and started asking Carmen if she was male or female. Was she sure she was in the right bathroom?

“I’m a Christian and what you people are doing is wrong,” the woman told Carmen, who is a woman.

“If you’re a Christian, then don’t judge,” Carmen said. Then Carmen told her to take a science class, and left.

The incident left the couple shaken. In a same-sex marriage since 2013, they felt afraid for the first time.

“It was in the middle of the afternoon on a Saturday. It was a very heavily trafficked restroom facility. It was the only restroom facility on the turnpike,” Burrows said. “Someone who would feel it’s completely accessible to come up to someone in a restroom facility and be so confrontational and harassing, it does give us pause for concern.

“What’s the next step? There is no protection for people based on the way they look.”

The next step for the Oklahoma Legislature that week was to attempt to pass a law regulating use of restrooms by transgender Oklahomans not once, not twice, but five times. The bill was repeatedly resurrected and attached to “shell” bills, or bills stripped of original titles and held to resurrect failed legislation.

Its co-author, Sen. Gary Stanislawski, R-Tulsa, didn’t know how his bill would actually work in practice. However he suggested that students opposed to sharing bathrooms with transgender students could use the bathroom in shifts.

stanislawski_bio
State Sen. Gary Stanislawski, R-Tulsa, sponsored a controversial bill to regulate use of bathrooms by transgender students.
The extreme rhetoric at the national level and in states such as North Carolina suddenly erupted at the Oklahoma state Capitol and swept across the state, turning up in websites and social media as well as in pulpits.

For Burrows, the undertone of intolerance emerged at the Hoback Plaza McDonald’s bathrooms.

“I think the negative and harsh rhetoric we are seeing at a national level must be filtering down to state level, especially considering our top officials are being considered for national positions in the GOP,” she said.

Burrows noted that Gov. Mary Fallin is being touted as a possible running mate to presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump.

Last-ditch efforts to pass the transgender bathroom bill and a bill that would have made abortion a felony have many speculating that the legislative session that concluded last week was out of bounds, even among some who support the governing party. And while many in the Republican-controlled state Legislature preferred to focus on hot-button social issues, perhaps a welcome distraction, the state’s budget was drowning in red ink.

Oklahoma City commentator and consultant Ron Black, whose former WKY talk show skewered many Democrats, said the conservative message has been drowned out by social issues to the detriment of his party.

“The Republicans have failed. And this is my party, man,” Black said. “This is supposed to be the party of fiscal conservative values, and instead they are focusing completely on social issues as a party, and things not critical to the infrastructure of Oklahoma.”

Black said the issues he believes are actually important to the state revolve around the economy and quality of life.

“If you want business to come to Oklahoma, you have to have good jobs, good schools, you’ve got to have good roads and bridges. It’s not about whether it’s a felony to perform an abortion. It’s not about those things, frankly. That will do nothing but cost taxpayers more money.”

Those outside the state are also taking notice of the state’s political climate. In a Sunday editorial titled “Oklahoma Makes the Poor Poorer,” the New York Times lambasted the state’s political leaders.

A story in the Washington Post last week focused on the level of citizens’ anger at Oklahoma lawmakers and quoted one GOP lawmaker who said he was “ashamed” of his party’s focus on the transgender bathroom bill.

Meanwhile, a widely shared Reuters story pieced together an eye-opening expose of how Oklahoma’s generous tax giveaways to the oil and gas industry cost the state $470 million last year. That amount nearly equaled the state’s budget deficit during the 2015 session.

Walters: ‘dog whistle issues’ for base

For former Oklahoma Gov. David Walters, legislation such as the bathroom bill is part of a larger pattern. In addition to comments in the Post story, Walters deepened his explanation of the Legislature’s erratic, end-of-the-year scramble.

“It’s not by accident that in a single day they make abortion a felony, pass a resolution to impeach Obama, and advanced the transgendered bathroom bill, trying to make them (transgender people) more radioactive,” said Walters, a Democrat.

“I think it’s because they had expected and hoped they had gotten a pass because their irresponsible budget policy cut taxes by a billion dollars. … They assumed it would be attributed to another gas and oil cycle. That sorta got found out.”

12189536_10156353938495438_2871307590297588335_n
Former Oklahoma Gov. David Walters
Walters said GOP lawmakers “realized as they were getting tagged with the budget catastrophe.”

“They needed to pull out the old dog whistle issues for their base. You don’t get that much crazy in one day by accident, even in Oklahoma state government.”

Oklahoma State Sen. David Holt, R-Oklahoma City, in that same Post story, said the transgender bathroom bill came up all of a sudden, in the midst of important education funding debates.

“But while students in my district were quite literally marching in the streets to the Capitol to plead with the Legislature to do something about how the budget shortfall will affect their schools, we were addressing something that virtually no one had contacted me about and that was arguably not a pressing issue,” Holt told the Post.

For days, scores of children, educators, parents and other concerned citizens marched on the crumbling Capitol complex in protest, galvanized by more cuts coming to the state’s stressed public education system, culminating in a protest dubbed “Let’s Fix This,” visitors were greeted with a last-minute dodge.

The legislators took a three-hour break.

Educators, parents, students and others converged on the Capitol last week for a protest of state education funding cuts. Photo courtesy of Together Oklahoma
Educators, parents, students and others converged on the Capitol last week for a protest of state education funding cuts. Photo courtesy of Together Oklahoma
For lifelong Oklahoman and award-winning novelist Rilla Askew, the situation was a historic call to action, met with an equally historic rebuke.

“I am really concerned about the deep cuts to education; that’s what got me down there today,” Askew said late last week as the session wound down. “They are driving our state into the ground. That’s the reason I went there.”

The Capitol was awash with youths and adults in red T-shirts, the uniform of the Fix-It movement. However, when the time came for children, parents and educators to meet with their respective representatives, they got a surprise, Askew said.

“When it looked like the people there for the demonstration were going to find their legislator, they canceled the session and told them (the lawmakers) they don’t have to be back until the late afternoon. They just disappeared on us, on the people who came there to demonstrate,” she said.

The House and Senate were not the only places where indifference and even ignorance held sway.

One teacher, Toby Decker, met briefly with Fallin, whom he described as out of touch on one of the more striking pieces of legislation to find its way to her desk: elimination of the EITC, or Earned Income Tax Credit.

The credit is a tax cut specifically for poor working families making less than $25,000 a year. Elimination of the credit has the effect of a tax increase on those families and it passed over the strident pleas of House Minority Leader Scott Inman and others.

Decker said he’d gone to the capitol as part of the education protest. In this case, he visited Fallin’s office to drop off a letter, but managed to catch the governor on her way out.

“I didn’t expect to see her at all,” Decker said.

She was walking with a group of men, a cell phone pressed to her ear. She seemed in a hurry. He spoke up.

“I said, ‘Hi, my name is Toby Decker. I would really like you to consider vetoing the bill the Legislature has passed to eliminate the EITC.’”

Decker said Fallin gave him a blank look for a moment and said, “What is the EITC?”

Asked to oppose a controversial bill that raised taxes on the poor, known as the EITC, Gov. Mary Fallin reportedly told a constituent she didn't know what EITC stood for. Photo courtesy NewsOn6
Asked to oppose a controversial bill that raised taxes on the poor, known as the EITC, Gov. Mary Fallin reportedly told a constituent she didn’t know what EITC stood for. Photo courtesy NewsOn6
“I was completely astonished by her question,” Decker said, but explained to Fallin that he was referring to the Earned Income Tax Credit.

“It dawned on her what I was talking about. I was dumbfounded that she didn’t know what I was talking about.”

Decker explained cutting the EITC would hurt his students, many of whom either have parents who are single working parents—or who themselves are working parents. Fallin may have been caught off-guard by the acronym but she shouldn’t have been if she and the Legislature were going to eliminate the credit to essentially raise taxes on the poor.

“That’s a major bill that’s going to affect thousands of Oklahomans and it’s one way that the Republicans have decided to close the budget hole. … I may have caught her off-guard. But I couldn’t believe she didn’t know what I was talking about. … I definitely think that she is out of touch.”

The Times’ editorial called eliminating the tax credit for poor people “deplorable.”

“After years of enacting generous tax cuts for the wealthy and for the powerful oil industry, however, the Oklahoma Legislature was facing falling revenues and resorted to an assortment of questionable cuts to close a $1.3 billion deficit. None is more regressive than penalizing the working poor.”

The editorial noted that the cut will save the state just $29 million, about 2 percent of its overall budget hole. However, it takes away $312 from a family with three or more children and a parent earning $13,850 annually.

Some GOP lawmakers have said the state can’t afford to sacrifice its dwindling revenues in order to help low-income people make ends meet. Sen. Pro Tem Brian Bingman blamed the media for giving the public the wrong impression that lawmakers are only focused on social issues such as abortion and not on the budget.

Bingman’s comments came hours after lawmakers passed a bill that would have made performing an abortion illegal in Oklahoma. It is highly unlikely such a bill, vetoed by Fallin, would survive a constitutional challenge.

Nobody’s ‘Laffing’ now

University of Oklahoma political scientist Keith Gaddie, a longtime Capitol observer, said the Legislature is running up hard against the reality of the rhetoric individual legislators have been espousing throughout their careers.

“These guys are doing what they said they would run to do. Keep taxes low and cut government,” Gaddie said.

“The problem they are going to run into is, you go from five day a week school to a four-day a week school, and then people have to pay for daycare. Grandma gets sick and the hospital has been closed. The hospice is closed. The nursing home has closed. This is an unprecedented event in turning back public services in the state of Oklahoma.”

Gaddie said the Legislature’s recent behavior is “a step backward to a much more dangerous and less safe time.”

When Fallin signed the state’s tax cut bill into law in May 2013, she announced it would pump $237 million additional dollars into the state economy, unleashing “an important tool for job creation and economic development,” according to her release.

The conservative Oklahoma Council for Public Affairs (OCPA), which lobbied hard for the cuts, lauded the Governor’s move. OCPA invoked the predictions of the plan’s architect, Reaganomics proponent Arthur Laffer.

At the time, Michael McNutt was a reporter for The Oklahoman. Now Fallin’s spokesman, McNutt had penned an interview quoting Laffer in 2011: “It’ll lead to a lot faster growth for Oklahoma. You’ve been a very good performing state … but you still have a way to go to be really superb,” Laffer told McNutt. “Your income tax is your primary deterrent to further economic growth.”

Laffer predicted if Oklahoma eliminated its income tax over the next decade, all boats would be lifted.

“You’ll have more sales, you’ll have more people moving in, property values rising,” he said.

But instead of acknowledging the predictions clearly haven’t panned out, OCPA was at the Capitol again last week, stumping against the Medicaid Rebalancing Act. The act would have included a cigarette tax and expansion of the state’s Medicaid program with federal dollars.

Despite the state’s gaping $1.3 billion budget hole and the act’s bland name — designed to avoid describing what the proposal would actually do — lawmakers defeated the act.

“I think the crassness of it surprises me a bit,” Walters said. “Any of us who have served in public office and make political decisions … that deal on Medicaid is a shocker.”

Walters said the state’s defeat of the Medicaid expansion “is going to cost real lives, thousands of lives in Oklahoma because of their failure to fund health care properly.”

“People are going to die as a result of their irresponsible acts. That’s going to get cumulative. As the error of our electoral ways become apparent, people are going to cycle back and elect serious adults who want to represent Oklahomans instead of some crazy ideology.”

A dramatic shift may not happen this election, Gaddie said, but the problems created by the budget shortfall aren’t going away.

The budget hole was closed with the help of accounting tricks such as transferring $200 million in road funding that will be replaced by bond issue funds. That’s the equivalent of using a high-interest credit card to buy groceries and not paying off the balance for years.

Gaddie and other veteran observers of Oklahoma politics say it’s unlikely voters’ anger will subside just because lawmakers have adjourned.

“It’s a one-year fix. We’re going to be back in the same fix next year. They’ve done nothing to create new sources of revenue,” he said. “We’re going to find out, and they are going to be held accountable.”

Frontier Editor in Chief Ziva Branstetter contributed to this story.

For the Frontier


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on June 03, 2016, 02:37:36 pm
Remember...

Cutting $80mil in education funding for extra curricular programs and books doesn't count as cutting education funding.

Taking $200 million from an infrastructure fund and then having that fund borrow $200 million doesn't count as borrowing to balance the  budget.

Now, if we just make it so that little "-" symbol and the color red don't indicate a deficit, we are already set for next year.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 05, 2016, 11:07:50 pm
Wait, I thought we were going to be fine because there is plenty of money and there will not be a budget shortfall. That's what we were all told. Hell, the legislator voted on it and I believe every single Republican confirmed that we would not have a revenue failure so we can go ahead with additional tax cuts and subsidies.

This is a manufactured crisis. Designed and created to make a budget shortfall and thereby give them an opportunity to kill programs they don't like. Environmental quality. Dam inspections (2000 dams and we will be down to 20 inspectors). Higher education. Public education. Mine & Manufacturing safety inspection. Social programs. Find something on the cut list that really pains the right wingers.

Step 1: Cut taxes and give away money
Step 2: Run out of money and pretend to be surprised
Step 3: Destroy programs the party platform speaks out against




I like conservative government. Real, pragmatic conservative government. One that admits it isn't the answer to all of your problems. That knows it cannot create jobs. One that acknowledges there are core services that it needs to do well to enable the citizens to proposer on their own: education, infrastructure, public safety, and yes - providing a safety net. I will even add aiding in the quality of life of its citizens (parks, museums, libraries, public beauty. These aren't "just" luxuries).  Above all, provide stability.

Pragmatic in that you have to acknowledge that some ideologically driven decisions are stupid. Refusing a billion dollars a year because you hate Obama is stupid. Passing unconstitutional laws that you expect to be thrown out is stupid. Passing hateful symbolic laws that have cost other states measurable GDP is stupid. Spending time during the session to erect religious monuments for the State while waiting for the last day to do the budget is stupid.  In each of those instances, the pragmatic decision is to tackle your ideological issue using other means, because the direct approach only makes your statement, it doesn't help your state.

If the Democrats had all the offices, I'm sure they would be doing stupid crap and I'd be happy to jump them too. But for the last ~ decade in Oklahoma, that hasn't been the case. This is an embarrassment.


It has been way longer than a decade. 





Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 05, 2016, 11:23:05 pm
Ziva Branstetter with The Frontier takes a stab at just how bad our legislature is.  It’s so bad and corrupt it seems, even shamed and corrupt former governor David Walters is chiming in.

Not quite sure the bathroom encounter at the McDonald’s on the Turner Turnpike between some some mis-guided Christian zealot and a lesbian is really essential to the story, but please stick with it to the end.



One of the quotes in that....

"Gaddie and other veteran observers of Oklahoma politics say it’s unlikely voters’ anger will subside just because lawmakers have adjourned.
It’s a one-year fix. We’re going to be back in the same fix next year. They’ve done nothing to create new sources of revenue,” he said. “We’re going to find out, and they are going to be held accountable.”


Gaddie is wrong.  Voter anger will dissipate.  They will forget.   We already "know"....there is nothing new to find out - and we continue to vote the same way over and over.  They are NOT going to be held accountable.  The state has crashed - we are the next Detroit or Flint on a statewide basis.




Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on June 06, 2016, 11:08:38 am
Unless and until oil prices rebound. Then, all is forgiven, carry on.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 06, 2016, 02:01:53 pm
Oil has rebounded - almost to the price point that Saudi Arabia has declared for several  years to be their goal.  It's about $50 now.  They - Saudi - have said the long term price will be near $60.  That is their target goal for oil worldwide.

So, with this massive recovery - 165% greater than just a few months ago - why is there not more 'recovery' activity going on?  (I know the answers - these are rhetorical questions to highlight the lies/distortions/BS over the entire oil propaganda 'process'.)

There actually is some 'hidden in plain sight' recovery activity going on in Tulsa area.  There are some oil related companies who are hiring in different STEM areas.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on June 07, 2016, 06:33:17 am
Whether the legislators have their tax sources replenished or not, the public will feel the effect of any oil recovery and tend to forget the failure of the state republican regime to govern effectively. Then they will resume their tilting against windmills and pass out the largesse to the top of the pyramid. That is our historical behavior.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on June 07, 2016, 09:25:23 am
Whether the legislators have their tax sources replenished or not, the public will feel the effect of any oil recovery and tend to forget the failure of the state republican regime to govern effectively. Then they will resume their tilting against windmills and pass out the largesse to the top of the pyramid. That is our historical behavior.

I keep hoping this session will get people to see just how broken the Oklahoma GOP has become.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 07, 2016, 12:05:46 pm
I keep hoping this session will get people to see just how broken the Oklahoma GOP has become.


Won't happen.  Too much 'stupid' residual still hanging around.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on June 07, 2016, 12:25:28 pm
I keep hoping this session will get people to see just how broken the Oklahoma GOP has become.

I have very low confidence in this.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on October 04, 2016, 11:30:03 am
High Court Tosses Another Oklahoma Abortion Law

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/high-court-tosses-another-oklahoma-abortion-law (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/high-court-tosses-another-oklahoma-abortion-law)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — The Oklahoma Supreme Court has thrown out another state law that would put new restrictions on abortion providers.

In a unanimous opinion handed down Tuesday, all nine justices agreed that the statute adopted by the Legislature last year "contains different and unrelated purposes" in violation of the Oklahoma constitution's requirement that legislation cover a single subject.

The law encompasses four abortion-related topics: minors and parental consent; tissue preservation; inspection of clinics; and legal liability for abortion providers.

The New York-based Center for Reproductive Rights challenged the law and the state's highest court subsequently blocked it from going into effect. The center sued on behalf of Dr. Larry Burns of Norman, who performs nearly half of Oklahoma's abortions.

Oklahoma's attorney general didn't immediately respond to a request for comment early Tuesday.

Money well spent.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on October 04, 2016, 03:05:10 pm
Our esteemed AG Pruitt:

(http://www.eichlernetwork.com/sites/default/files/images/news/Neuman.jpg)


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on October 04, 2016, 07:12:41 pm
What? Me worry?!

Pruitt thinks he's the next governor. Not gonna' happen.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on October 04, 2016, 08:46:59 pm
What? Me worry?!
Pruitt thinks he's the next governor. Not gonna' happen.

I certainly hope that both parties nominate someone better.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on October 05, 2016, 07:06:24 am
I certainly hope that both parties nominate someone better.



You mean when he runs for Governor, right?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on October 05, 2016, 08:08:55 am
The idea of Pruitt running for governor isn’t what is scary.  It’s the idea there are people in this state who would vote for this idiot.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on October 05, 2016, 08:16:26 am
The idea of Pruitt running for governor isn’t what is scary.  It’s the idea there are people in this state who would vote for this idiot.

Depressingly I think he would win.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 05, 2016, 10:02:18 am
The idea of Pruitt running for governor isn’t what is scary.  It’s the idea there are people in this state who would vote for this idiot.


One step further - seeing the amount of support Drumpf gets, Pruitt is a shoe-in.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on October 05, 2016, 11:40:03 am

One step further - seeing the amount of support Drumpf gets, Pruitt is a shoe-in.



Remember, they booed Failin at the last OSU football game. Isn't that her alma mater? She may have peed in his bathwater.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on October 05, 2016, 03:23:52 pm
Remember, they booed Failin at the last OSU football game. Isn't that her alma mater? She may have peed in his bathwater.


Oklahoma has a very short memory...she will be forgiven and he will be elected


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 05, 2016, 04:34:50 pm
Remember, they booed Failin at the last OSU football game. Isn't that her alma mater? She may have peed in his bathwater.



That was just a bunch of idealistic kids who are known Communists and won't vote because that is an act of support for the bourgeoisie Capitalist Pigs that have ruined everything anyway!  If they did vote, it would be for Stein and never in a state election!!




Lol....!!



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Red Arrow on October 05, 2016, 04:52:00 pm
You mean when he runs for Governor, right?

Pruitt, yes.  I hope not.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on October 05, 2016, 06:12:13 pm
Anyone who served in her administration or in the state legislature during her tenure should not be allowed to run for governor, state office or legislature. Republican or Democrat. Blank slate. Can I get an Amen and a petition started!?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 06, 2016, 07:46:36 am
Anyone who served in her administration or in the state legislature during her tenure should not be allowed to run for governor, state office or legislature. Republican or Democrat. Blank slate. Can I get an Amen and a petition started!?


I would sign it, but it won't work.  It's Oklahoma....



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on October 10, 2016, 10:39:42 pm
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A proclamation by Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin inviting Christians to pray for the oil and natural gas industry will be amended to be more inclusive of other faiths, the governor said Monday.

The two-term Republican said the proclamation declaring Thursday “Oilfield Prayer Day” will be revised to invite people of all faiths to pray for the industry, which has seen a recent decline.

Fallin has issued similar proclamations since she took office in 2011, but beginning last year the proclamation was changed to apply only to Christians. It was requested on behalf of a group called the Oilfield Christian Fellowship.

The proclamation says, “Christians are invited to thank God for the blessings” created by the industry and to “seek His wisdom and ask for protection.” It also indicates that Christians believe oil and natural gas are “created by God.”


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on October 11, 2016, 09:50:03 am
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/columnists/ginniegraham/ginnie-graham-oilfield-prayer-day-proclamation-wrongly-excludes-non-christian/article_012f5788-b792-5a6c-8657-c7168669fc13.html

“Whereas, Christians are invited to thank God for the blessings created by the oil and natural gas industry and to seek His wisdom and ask for protection.”
Christ didn’t spend his days praying over money matters. He was into saving souls, not increasing the bottom line.





Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 11, 2016, 10:50:15 am
Don't remember seeing this yet, so.....

This years collection of state questions with some explanations.   Geez, we sure do some stupid 'stuff' in this state!  With one good one out of the whole bunch.


https://ballotpedia.org/Oklahoma_2016_ballot_measures




Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on October 11, 2016, 05:14:25 pm
Saw someone trying to defend the removal of separation of Church and State from the Oklahoma Bill of Rights because it its too vague. You see, the Court said the 10 Commandments Monument was an "indirect" benefit to religion, so the word indirect is too vague. Sure, the Court has defined it repeatedly to mean exactly what you think it would. And yes, it is used a dozen times in the constitution... but its totally vague and has to go. Not because we want to put our monument back up. Just because.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on October 23, 2016, 12:37:42 pm
Ouch.


(http://i2.wp.com/okpolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/education-cuts.jpg)

http://okpolicy.org/oklahoma-continues-lead-u-s-deepest-cuts-education/







Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on January 30, 2017, 02:02:21 pm
Oklahoma now #1 in gay-bashing legislation.

http://www.hrc.org/blog/hrc-freedom-oklahoma-to-state-lawmakers-dont-repeat-north-carolinas-mistake


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on March 05, 2017, 12:28:28 pm
 ‘Do you beat your wife?’

Three Muslim students who tried to visit an Oklahoma lawmaker Thursday at the State Capitol in Oklahoma City were surprised when they were instead handed a questionnaire at his office. They would have to fill out the survey first, an office assistant told them, before they could make an appointment to see state Rep. John Bennett.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/03/05/muslim-students-tried-to-meet-with-a-lawmaker-they-were-first-asked-do-you-beat-your-wife/



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on March 05, 2017, 05:43:30 pm
‘Do you beat your wife?’

Three Muslim students who tried to visit an Oklahoma lawmaker Thursday at the State Capitol in Oklahoma City were surprised when they were instead handed a questionnaire at his office. They would have to fill out the survey first, an office assistant told them, before they could make an appointment to see state Rep. John Bennett.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/03/05/muslim-students-tried-to-meet-with-a-lawmaker-they-were-first-asked-do-you-beat-your-wife/



The man has no shame at all. He needs to go play in traffic.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 06, 2017, 08:18:51 am
They are also considering a proposal to forgive income tax for five years to anyone who moves to a county with a decreasing population.  This is brilliant, because just thinking about the idea - it makes little sense.  Presumably people are leaving those counties because of living conditions, lack of job opportunities, or SOME reason.  A 5% discount isn't likely to change those conditions.  But more importantly, Kansas already tried this.  They found that the measure failed to attract new residents, in fact, overall the exodus from those counties increased.

So - like our current fiscal plan, we looked to our neighbors, found what wasn't working, and decided that's what we want to do.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on March 09, 2017, 09:17:52 pm
Arent we lucky to have a legislature caring enough to overturn the vote of the people to address the concerns of the lobyists?


OKLAHOMA CITY — By the slimmest margin, the Oklahoma House of Representatives decided Thursday that voters might not have fully understood what they were doing when they passed a criminal justice referendum in November.

With 51 votes, the bare minimum needed, the members passed House Bill 1482, by Rep. Scott Biggs, R-Chickasha, which in its original form took a big hunk out of State Question 780, which reclassified many lesser drug and property felonies as misdemeanors.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/state-house-reinstates-drug-felony-voters-axed-on-november-ballot/article_518300f2-96f2-5337-be3c-6e13ca493122.html


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 10, 2017, 08:06:48 am
We are just doing what the people hired us to do!

(Excuse me sir, the people directly voted on that issue and disagree with you)

The people are dumb enough to have elected me, clearly they are too stupid to know what is best for them!


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on March 10, 2017, 09:40:01 am
If there is one shining victory in Drumpf being POTUS is that we managed to get rid of Scott Pruitt!

That is at least one small improvement for our state.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on March 10, 2017, 10:49:30 am
If there is one shining victory in Drumpf being POTUS is that we managed to get rid of Scott Pruitt!

That is at least one small improvement for our state.

Think of him as a little pile of poop in the yard.  You wouldnt have noticed him unless you got close, but until someone stepped in him and spread him all around it wasnt as big an issue.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on March 10, 2017, 12:30:33 pm
Arent we lucky to have a legislature caring enough to overturn the vote of the people to address the concerns of the lobyists?



And what are we going to do about it?

Bupkis


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: guido911 on March 11, 2017, 03:47:07 am
We are just doing what the people hired us to do!

(Excuse me sir, the people directly voted on that issue and disagree with you)

The people are dumb enough to have elected me, clearly they are too stupid to know what is best for them!

Oklahoma citizens voted on an anti-Sharia law as well, but the courts stepped in. Lots of laws get the approval of the voters but get tossed by the courts. You are okay with that, right? The legislature is just doing what our courts do.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on March 11, 2017, 07:58:30 am
So, legislators can take the duties of courts because courts do their duty. No, hypocrisy there. Only a lawyer could embrace that philosophy with a straight face. Why even separate the three branches? Just let the legislators do it all.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: guido911 on March 11, 2017, 03:13:21 pm
So, legislators can take the duties of courts because courts do their duty. No, hypocrisy there. Only a lawyer could embrace that philosophy with a straight face. Why even separate the three branches? Just let the legislators do it all.


The legislature's job is to make law. That's what they are doing by "undoing" whatever the voters passed in November. The court's job is to interpret law. That's what it did when they tossed the anti-Sharia nonsense. Governors (and presidents) enforce law. That's what Barry did when he decided not to enforce certain immigration statutes. Believe it or not, each branch of government has something to do with law. So there is your "Schoolhouse rock" lesson on the roles of government.

Not your best effort.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on March 11, 2017, 06:21:26 pm
I've never found anything worth learning from you. Haven't missed your snark either.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on March 24, 2017, 12:25:14 pm
Measure That Would Curb Local LGBTQ Protections Fails

Just the fact that something like this progresses this far is cringe inducing. 

And another "i'm an A-hole and going to introduce this bill" bill was withdrawn after 694 failed.

Quote
The Oklahoma Senate killed a measure Thursday to stop cities from offering enhanced anti-discrimination protections.

Senate Bill 694 would limit employment, housing and public accommodations protections to those classes in state law: race, color, national origin, sex, religion, creed, age, disability or genetic information. Cities and other local governments would not be able to offer such protections based on sexual orientation or gender identity.

The measure would also have eliminated any such rules on the books, such as Tulsa’s 2015 fair housing ordinance that offers protections to the LGBTQ community.

Bill author Joshua Brecheen framed the matter as one of religious freedom.

"We are facing, as a culture this decision: Is the First Amendment going to be subordinate to sexual behavior?" Brecheen said.

Sen. Kevin Matthews of Tulsa didn’t like what that suggested.

"It's very disappointing to me when discrimination is being mentioned in the same breath as choice," Matthews said. "I did not choose to be African-American. I was born that way, and whether people are nice to me when they discriminate ... does not matter."

In a committee hearing on SB694 last month, Brecheen said business owners want the ability to "object to something but do it in a loving manner and it not be categorized as discrimination."

Former Tuttle Mayor and Republican freshman Sen. Lonnie Paxton called the measure a bad bill for the Senate, for the state and for the future.

"For the last summer and fall, I spent that time knocking doors of thousands of Oklahoma citizens. I never had one person open the door and say, 'Pass a bill like this,'" Paxton said. "They said fix our economy. Fix our schools. Fix our state."

Brecheen and other supporters of the bill also said it would address business concerns presented by a patchwork of differing regulations.

SB694 failed 18–25 and will not be revisited this session, as a motion to reconsider it also failed.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on March 24, 2017, 12:34:34 pm
And...

The ACLU Condemns a Bill that would Allow the Resurrection of a Ten Commandments Monument at Capitol

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/aclu-condemns-bill-would-allow-resurrection-ten-commandments-monument-capitol (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/aclu-condemns-bill-would-allow-resurrection-ten-commandments-monument-capitol)

Quote
The American Civil Liberties Union of Oklahoma blasts a house bill, calling it a blatant attempt to resurrect a Ten Commandments Monument on public land…despite a clear ruling stating its’ unconstitutionality. Allie Shinn is Director of External Affairs of the Oklahoma ACLU.

Shinn points out voters resoundingly defeated a state question in November that would have removed some barriers between church and state, allowing such a monument. She says any further attempt to put a religious monument on capitol grounds is ‘a monumental waste of time and money’. She’s urging citizens to contact senators to vote no on House Bill 2177.

Dad...gum


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 24, 2017, 02:05:11 pm
And...

The ACLU Condemns a Bill that would Allow the Resurrection of a Ten Commandments Monument at Capitol

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/aclu-condemns-bill-would-allow-resurrection-ten-commandments-monument-capitol (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/aclu-condemns-bill-would-allow-resurrection-ten-commandments-monument-capitol)

Dad...gum


Don't look at me... I never vote for any of these dipsticks!!   Wish more people would follow suit.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on April 14, 2017, 11:21:37 am
House Committee Passes Controversial Science Education Bill

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/house-committee-passes-controversial-science-education-bill (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/house-committee-passes-controversial-science-education-bill)

Quote
A House committee advances a science education bill panned by critics as unnecessary and an opening for misinformation.

Rep. David Brumbaugh says the intent of Senate Bill 393 is to promote critical thinking by exposing students to a broader range of scientific data than what textbooks offer.

"Aristotle, even this far back, talked about that, that, you know, the mind that can entertain, uh, different thoughts without, you know, changing their mind but looking — reason obeys itself, OK?" Brumbaugh said.

The bill says teachers may help students evaluate controversial theories without state or local administrators interfering. It also offers teachers protection against being fired or sued, which critics say thwarts local control.

Beth Allan is a past or current member of several science teachers organizations and says none supports the bill.

"This bill will not prepare students to be competitive in a very competitive environment," Allan said. "Our STEM workforce must know accurate science that is verified."

Critics say the bill is aimed at climate change and evolution and is meant to infuse science with Biblical theories. The bill says it is not intended to favor a religion and deals only with scientific information.

Brumbaugh said critics are wrong to claim SB393 will damage Oklahoma schools’ reputations.

"Doesn't promote anything wacko. Doesn't promote anything but free discussion in the classroom," Brumbaugh said.

Aysha Prather disagreed. Her sixth-grader recently learned about giants not for a lesson in skepticism but because the teacher thought they’re interesting.

"So, here are some other things that people might find intriguing and might choose to share with their classes: Bigfoot, a flat Earth, Atlantis, the Bermuda Triangle, that the pyramids were built by aliens," Prather said.

SB393 passed the House government and general accountability committee rather than the education committee.

We're represented by GD nincompoops


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on April 14, 2017, 11:45:33 am
House Committee Passes Controversial Science Education Bill

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/house-committee-passes-controversial-science-education-bill (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/house-committee-passes-controversial-science-education-bill)

We're represented by GD nincompoops

What does it matter when there's no money for schools anyway and teacher pay is so low we can't hire teachers. 


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on April 14, 2017, 12:39:25 pm
Quote
The bill says it is not intended to favor a religion science and deals only with scientific information religious fact.

FIFY


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on April 14, 2017, 02:39:12 pm
House Committee Passes Controversial Science Education Bill


Rep. David Brumbaugh says the intent of Senate Bill 393 is to promote critical thinking by exposing students to a broader range of scientific data than what textbooks offer.

"Aristotle, even this far back, talked about that, that, you know, the mind that can entertain, uh, different thoughts without, you know, changing their mind but looking — reason obeys itself, OK?" Brumbaugh said.


“Where do they teach you people to talk like that?  Some Panama City sailor wanna hump-hump bar?”


(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5f/ce/df/5fcedff018ae5331a8d022add098c36d.jpg)


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 14, 2017, 07:37:16 pm
“Where do they teach you people to talk like that?  Some Panama City sailor wanna hump-hump bar?”





And yet, someone keeps voting for these people.  I know it isn't me....




Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on April 15, 2017, 07:26:46 am

And yet, someone keeps voting for these people.  I know it isn't me....



Its because they can quote Aristotle (sort of) as though they are deliberate, philosophical scholars. They are considered intellectuals in their own districts. IOW, "in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king".


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: rebound on April 17, 2017, 02:18:54 pm
"in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king".

+1

That is probably the most accurate description of most of this state I have heard so far.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on April 17, 2017, 03:24:11 pm
House Committee Passes Controversial Science Education Bill

A House committee advances a science education bill panned by critics as unnecessary and an opening for misinformation.

Rep. David Brumbaugh says the intent of Senate Bill 393 is to promote critical thinking by exposing students to a broader range of scientific data than what textbooks offer.

"Aristotle, even this far back, talked about that, that, you know, the mind that can entertain, uh, different thoughts without, you know, changing their mind but looking — reason obeys itself, OK?" Brumbaugh said.

The bill says teachers may help students evaluate controversial theories without state or local administrators interfering. It also offers teachers protection against being fired or sued, which critics say thwarts local control.

Beth Allan is a past or current member of several science teachers organizations and says none supports the bill.

"This bill will not prepare students to be competitive in a very competitive environment," Allan said. "Our STEM workforce must know accurate science that is verified."

Critics say the bill is aimed at climate change and evolution and is meant to infuse science with Biblical theories. The bill says it is not intended to favor a religion and deals only with scientific information.

Brumbaugh said critics are wrong to claim SB393 will damage Oklahoma schools’ reputations.

"Doesn't promote anything wacko. Doesn't promote anything but free discussion in the classroom," Brumbaugh said.

Aysha Prather disagreed. Her sixth-grader recently learned about giants not for a lesson in skepticism but because the teacher thought they’re interesting.

"So, here are some other things that people might find intriguing and might choose to share with their classes: Bigfoot, a flat Earth, Atlantis, the Bermuda Triangle, that the pyramids were built by aliens," Prather said.

SB393 passed the House government and general accountability committee rather than the education committee.

We're represented by GD nincompoops

And Brumbaugh died suddenly on Saturday.  Apparently a World editorial writer ripped him pretty good not realizing he’d passed, then they published a gushing “He was close to Christ” sort of retraction/apology yesterday.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 19, 2017, 10:20:21 am
And Brumbaugh died suddenly on Saturday.  Apparently a World editorial writer ripped him pretty good not realizing he’d passed, then they published a gushing “He was close to Christ” sort of retraction/apology yesterday.


This ignorance and stupidstition will now be fast-tracked on to passage.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on May 05, 2017, 11:34:50 am
This freaking nut job wants more power.

BA State Senator to Run for Congress

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/ba-state-senator-run-congress (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/ba-state-senator-run-congress)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/large/public/201705/nathan_dahm.png)

Nathan Dahm



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on May 05, 2017, 11:51:05 am
Legislature 0.8 Percent of the Way to Closing Budget Gap After Senate Passes Four Revenue Bills

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/legislature-08-percent-way-closing-budget-gap-after-senate-passes-four-revenue-bills (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/legislature-08-percent-way-closing-budget-gap-after-senate-passes-four-revenue-bills)


All the good things that go with underfunded schools and services most likely are what lead to decision makers of large corporations like:

Over 500 Tulsa Jobs to Leave Town

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/over-500-tulsa-jobs-leave-town (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/over-500-tulsa-jobs-leave-town)


Hell, even Fallin's starting to see the issue...
Quote
“In a recent meeting I hosted with major national site selection companies, an executive asked me how he could persuade businesses to come to Oklahoma when some of our schools have four-day education weeks,” Fallin said.

http://newsok.com/article/5537074 (http://newsok.com/article/5537074)









Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on May 05, 2017, 07:18:31 pm
This freaking nut job wants more power.

BA State Senator to Run for Congress

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/ba-state-senator-run-congress (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/ba-state-senator-run-congress)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/large/public/201705/nathan_dahm.png)

Nathan Dahm



What is scary is he is likely to win.  Quick, someone start following him around to see if he and Ralph Shortey have something in common.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on May 11, 2017, 03:24:28 pm
Broken Arrow lawmaker's idea to target non-English-speaking students, 'turn them over to ICE' criticized

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/broken-arrow-lawmaker-s-idea-to-target-non-english-speaking/article_0ebe35f6-634c-534f-b4a2-6febc6796eea.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/broken-arrow-lawmaker-s-idea-to-target-non-english-speaking/article_0ebe35f6-634c-534f-b4a2-6febc6796eea.html)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A new Republican caucus in the Oklahoma House is suggesting that more than 80,000 non-English speaking students in public schools be turned over to federal immigration officials.

Broken Arrow Republican Rep. Mike Ritze told News9 in an interview Wednesday that the newly created Republican Platform Caucus believes the state could save $60 million if it would identify what the caucus believes is 82,000 non-English speaking students "and then turn them over to ICE" (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) to determine if they are citizens.

It's unclear from the segment if he was referring to turning over the students' names or the students themselves.

Ritze also questioned whether the state should have to educate children who aren't citizens.


A 1982 U.S. Supreme Court decision holds states cannot deny students a free public education based on their immigration status.

Ritze wasn't at the Capitol on Thursday and didn't reply to phone messages or emails.

"This proposal might be laughable if it weren’t made at the expense of real human beings, common decency, and the United States Constitution," said Ryan Kiesel, ACLU of Oklahoma executive director. "Threatening 82,000 children with arrest and internment that would turn their entire lives upside down is disgustingly inhumane."


We've got some real A-holes in power


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on May 11, 2017, 10:51:15 pm
Broken Arrow lawmaker's idea to target non-English-speaking students, 'turn them over to ICE' criticized

We've got some real A-holes in power

When you know things like religious monuments on state property are against the law but you do it anyway, you tend to think of yourself as above the law.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 12, 2017, 08:30:19 am
When you know things like religious monuments on state property are against the law but you do it anyway, you tend to think of yourself as above the law.


And the Tulsa-fication of Broken Arrow has been complete for a while now.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on May 18, 2017, 04:43:52 pm
The legislature getting a nice party for screwing the state and not raising taxes on O&G:

https://www.thelostogle.com/2017/05/17/oil-and-gas-association-is-throwing-a-party-for-oklahoma-lawmakers/#more-72090


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on May 18, 2017, 04:57:56 pm
The legislature getting a nice party for screwing the state and not raising taxes on O&G:

https://www.thelostogle.com/2017/05/17/oil-and-gas-association-is-throwing-a-party-for-oklahoma-lawmakers/#more-72090

Wow, you mean the lost ogle wasn't debating which was the best topless bar in OKC for catching a STD? Move over NYT and WaPo.

https://www.thelostogle.com/2014/05/27/the-oklahoman-sent-nolan-clay-to-write-about-a-strip-club/ (https://www.thelostogle.com/2014/05/27/the-oklahoman-sent-nolan-clay-to-write-about-a-strip-club/)

https://www.thelostogle.com/2015/02/24/channel-5-found-an-excuse-to-go-to-valley-brookes-all-nude-strip-club/ (https://www.thelostogle.com/2015/02/24/channel-5-found-an-excuse-to-go-to-valley-brookes-all-nude-strip-club/)

https://www.thelostogle.com/2014/07/02/steve-lackmeyer-should-write-a-book-about-the-history-of-oklahoma-city-strip-clubs/ (https://www.thelostogle.com/2014/07/02/steve-lackmeyer-should-write-a-book-about-the-history-of-oklahoma-city-strip-clubs/)






Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: AquaMan on May 19, 2017, 11:21:16 am
Is the story untrue?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on May 19, 2017, 02:20:53 pm
Is the story untrue?

Seems more opinion piece from an alternative source sponsored by bars and sex toy shops than an actual news story.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on May 21, 2017, 01:20:49 pm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/mikejones/mike-jones-rep-ritze-practice-what-you-preach/article_fbb02ad1-1830-5114-9dca-3c4736b22710.html



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on July 20, 2017, 09:06:13 pm
Is rape the will of God?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57aWGJW0XbA


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on July 26, 2017, 11:54:46 am
When you see this and think - "maybe all our current sexual deviant congressmen will have another chance..."

Former Oklahoma Lawmaker, Felon Considers Running for Office

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/former-oklahoma-lawmaker-felon-considers-running-office (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/former-oklahoma-lawmaker-felon-considers-running-office)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/x_large/public/201707/leo_kingston-facebook.jpg)

Quote
A former Oklahoma lawmaker who was convicted of embezzlement says he's considering running for an executive office in 2018.

67-year-old Leo Kingston was a first-term senator when he was convicted in 1990 after a federal grand jury indicted him for defrauding the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. Kingston served three years of an eight-year sentence.

Kingston returned to real estate after prison and sold his business last year. He now runs a website that deals with commercial real estate and mineral rights.

Kingston announced on Facebook Saturday that he's thinking about running for labor commissioner, saying he's "risen from the ashes" and believes in second chances.

Felons are legally required to wait 15 years after completing a sentence before running for office.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 26, 2017, 01:36:09 pm
When you see this and think - "maybe all our current sexual deviant congressmen will have another chance..."

Former Oklahoma Lawmaker, Felon Considers Running for Office

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/former-oklahoma-lawmaker-felon-considers-running-office (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/former-oklahoma-lawmaker-felon-considers-running-office)




Now that is an approach I had not thought of yet - elect all the low-lifes so we get them all in one place so can keep an eye on them since they will be out in the open and everything.... We have a good start on it already - just need to fill in some of the blanks!





Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 27, 2017, 10:30:04 am
This is what the extremist right has forgotten - IF they ever had enough sense or education to ever have understood it. 


Public education does not exist for the benefit of students or the benefit of their parents. It exists for the benefit of the social order.

We have discovered as a species that it is useful to have an educated population. You do not need to be a student or have a child who is a student to benefit from public education. Every second of every day of your life, you benefit from public education.

So let me explain why I like to pay taxes for schools, even though I don't personally have a kid in school: It's because I don't like living in a country with a bunch of stupid people.

– John Green


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 08, 2017, 01:43:29 pm
And now we have another guy running for office in Oklahoma gonna "fix" our problems by finding waste in government and cutting it out.

Nothing at all about REALLY solving the budget problems...   Typical Republicontin Script.  Tiresome.  And hurting our kids badly.

R Jay McAtee.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 09, 2017, 12:40:11 pm
Yet another one.  Ross Ford in BA district 76.

Concerned about;
Education
Public Safety (ex police officer)
Infrastructure

Gonna fix things by;
Eliminate government waste and reduce regulation
Eliminate "good ole boy" corruption
Put our interests over special interests


Ho, hum...   Tiresome, repetitive, derivative, monologue, drivel, of all the things that have failed in the past and will continue to fail in the future.  Because they won't do what they know must be done.

Seems like a nice enough, likable guy.  Just doesn't know what is needed in OK.  Or at least not admitting to it and talking about it.

Put state income tax back to pre-Failin' levels.  Raise the gross production tax to be equal to all the states surrounding us.   At the bare minimum.  Even Kansas has finally realized the error of their ways and started fixing things there.  

https://www.facebook.com/RossFordOK/



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on August 09, 2017, 05:32:42 pm
And now we have another guy running for office in Oklahoma gonna "fix" our problems by finding waste in government and cutting it out.


Almost without fail, the first "waste" in line to be cut is education.  Teachers dont put up the same fight as the public safety unions do.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Tulsa Zephyr on August 10, 2017, 03:27:16 pm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/cigarette-fee-ruled-unconstitutional-by-oklahoma-supreme-court/article_948028d8-a7b0-5835-99ef-7b5c1ff4eaa2.html

...and now for Chapter 2


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 10, 2017, 09:00:32 pm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/cigarette-fee-ruled-unconstitutional-by-oklahoma-supreme-court/article_948028d8-a7b0-5835-99ef-7b5c1ff4eaa2.html

...and now for Chapter 2


Special session time.... at $30,000 a day...  Especially clever of those legislative hacks and Failin' to get some more money out of us.  Just when we can afford it the most!


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on August 29, 2017, 11:22:51 am
Lawmakers Prepare for Budget Cuts Ahead

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/lawmakers-prepare-budget-cuts-ahead (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/lawmakers-prepare-budget-cuts-ahead)

Quote
Oklahoma lawmakers have sent letters to state agencies requesting they give hypothetical results for a more than 3 percent budget cut.

The Oklahoman reports that the Oklahoma Supreme Court struck down a $1.50 cigarette fee earlier this month after Justices called it a tax. Legislative leaders are now inquiring how agencies would be affected by an across-the-board budget cut to make up for the lost fee.

The letters sent Thursday and Monday also asked the agencies how a cut in state appropriations would affect federal matching dollars.

Lawmakers and Gov. Mary Fallin have discussed how they might solve the state's latest budget crisis, which may lead to a special session. The special session would give lawmakers the opportunity to modify the state budget and spread the cut across other agencies.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on August 29, 2017, 11:30:27 am
Lawmakers Prepare for Budget Cuts Ahead

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/lawmakers-prepare-budget-cuts-ahead (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/lawmakers-prepare-budget-cuts-ahead)


And we keep re-electing these idiots.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: BKDotCom on August 29, 2017, 11:35:34 am
As seen in the Tulsa World (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/the-guardian-oklahoma-isn-t-working-can-anyone-fix-this/article_2b7ffc80-09d1-5757-8a9b-77aded5c7f48.html)

The Guardian:  Oklahoma is broken (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/29/oklahoma-education-system-four-day-school-weeks-poor)


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on August 29, 2017, 12:11:02 pm
Wow, lets start a new thread for that one...


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on October 02, 2017, 10:59:17 am
Congress Lets Insurance Program for Poor Children Expire, Oklahoma to Lose $49M

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/congress-lets-insurance-program-poor-children-expire-oklahoma-lose-49m (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/congress-lets-insurance-program-poor-children-expire-oklahoma-lose-49m)

Quote
Health care for Oklahoma’s poorest children will take a $49 million dollar hit because of congressional inaction.

Federal lawmakers did not reauthorize the Children’s Health Insurance Program, or CHIP, by a Saturday deadline. Cate Jeffries with the Oklahoma Health Care Authority said they can prolong the program if they essentially start buying on credit.

"We can continue to fund the CHIP program through state fiscal year 2018, which ends June 30, by pushing out some of our provider claim runs into the next fiscal year," Jeffries said.

Other states may have to shut down programs as early as next week. Around 125,000 Oklahoma kids get everything from immunizations to inpatient care through CHIP.

With the loss of $70 million because of Oklahoma’s unconstitutional cigarette tax, the health care authority’s total shortfall for this year is nearly $120 million. They'll likely cut payments to doctors and hospitals to make up for the loss.

The savings are "approximately $8.6 million for every 1 percent decrease in provider rates," said OHCA CEO Becky Pasternik-Ikard.

Covering the budget shortfall entirely through provider rate cuts would mean about a 14 percent cut.

Oklahoma is a destitute family on the side of the road too stupid to pick up the money thrown at them.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: BKDotCom on October 02, 2017, 11:31:07 am
Oklahoma is a destitute family on the side of the road too stupid to pick up the money thrown at them.

But handouts are for democrats!


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on October 02, 2017, 12:02:55 pm
Congress Lets Insurance Program for Poor Children Expire, Oklahoma to Lose $49M

Too busy trying to repeal Obamacare.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: TeeDub on October 02, 2017, 12:27:52 pm

The Guardian:  Oklahoma is broken (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/29/oklahoma-education-system-four-day-school-weeks-poor)


From the article:
Lisa Newman, a high school teacher from El Reno, for instance, recounts a history of cutbacks, increases in class sizes, and her stagnant salary. She takes in less than $1,000 a month after all her bills are paid.

By this logic, I would bet very few people can make ends meet.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 02, 2017, 01:02:39 pm
But then there is always hope....  Or is there....?

The darkness must go down the river of nights dreaming
Flow morphia slow, let the sun and light come streaming
Into my life, into my life.   (1:47)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4G-hjfMR4U&index=11&list=RDZbpJb7hjb7M



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on October 02, 2017, 01:51:23 pm
Congress Lets Insurance Program for Poor Children Expire, Oklahoma to Lose $49M

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/congress-lets-insurance-program-poor-children-expire-oklahoma-lose-49m (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/congress-lets-insurance-program-poor-children-expire-oklahoma-lose-49m)

Oklahoma is a destitute family on the side of the road too stupid to pick up the money thrown at them.

So when we say Oklahoma has the 2nd "worse" legislature in the nation, it's Congress that's the number one worst. I get it now.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 03, 2017, 09:02:29 am
Even Kansas State Supreme Court, as bad as it is, "gets it"... Even though the state legislature still doesn't...



https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/kansas/articles/2017-10-02/the-latest-kansas-court-says-hike-in-school-aid-not-enough



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Ed W on October 03, 2017, 05:15:03 pm
This is from The Lost Ogle. Apparently the Daily Oklahoman, that definitive source of news, sports and weather on Bizarro World, has laid all the state's budget woes squarely on us Democrats. Never mind that the Republicans enjoy super majorities in both legislative branches and they have a compliant, ideologically driven governor.

https://www.thelostogle.com/2017/10/02/the-oklahoman-blames-democrats-for-states-continued-dysfunction/ (https://www.thelostogle.com/2017/10/02/the-oklahoman-blames-democrats-for-states-continued-dysfunction/)


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 04, 2017, 10:39:40 am
This is from The Lost Ogle. Apparently the Daily Oklahoman, that definitive source of news, sports and weather on Bizarro World, has laid all the state's budget woes squarely on us Democrats. Never mind that the Republicans enjoy super majorities in both legislative branches and they have a compliant, ideologically driven governor.

https://www.thelostogle.com/2017/10/02/the-oklahoman-blames-democrats-for-states-continued-dysfunction/ (https://www.thelostogle.com/2017/10/02/the-oklahoman-blames-democrats-for-states-continued-dysfunction/)


Sounds about right - Coburn and Keating... I used to think that at least Coburn had a semblance of a brain, but he has shown it is gone for years now.   And Keating - just another small scale, wannabe,  Trump.

I don't even bother with that paper since I can just go directly to their source - the Murdoch Clown Show to see what they are gonna parrot.




Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 16, 2017, 03:50:03 pm

As if we needed further proof of just how sorry the OK state legislature is - they have only known about this for many years.  And even in the latest 'special session' continue their Failin' - every step of the way!  Get your passport ready for January 22, 2018 !  You won't be able to fly without it.


http://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/a13027232/new-passport-rules-domestic-flights/



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on October 19, 2017, 10:06:40 am
As if we needed further proof of just how sorry the OK state legislature is - they have only known about this for many years.  And even in the latest 'special session' continue their Failin' - every step of the way!  Get your passport ready for January 22, 2018 !  You won't be able to fly without it.

We've done more than know about it, Oklahoma legislators voted unanimously to reject REAL ID in 2007.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: rebound on October 19, 2017, 10:18:35 am
We've done more than know about it, Oklahoma legislators voted unanimously to reject REAL ID in 2007.

Because, you know, "Obama"...


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on October 19, 2017, 10:42:16 pm
I heard mention the other day that pay and benefit cuts could be on the table for the Ok legislature.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 20, 2017, 08:03:34 am
I heard mention the other day that pay and benefit cuts could be on the table for the Ok legislature.


Noise.  It will end up a raise all around.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on October 20, 2017, 11:30:55 am

Noise.  It will end up a raise all around.



Well, of course!


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on October 23, 2017, 10:59:14 am
GOP Reaches Budget Agreement

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gop-reaches-budget-agreement (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gop-reaches-budget-agreement)

Quote
Governor Fallin and the Republican leadership of the House and Senate announce a budget agreement. The announcement was made at a state capitol news conference this morning:

If passed by the Legislature, the agreement would:

Place a $1.50 tax on a package of cigarettes.

Provide for a 6-cent fuel tax increase.

Revise taxes on alcoholic beverages.

Restore the Earned Income Tax credit.

Provide for a $3,000 teacher pay increase, effective Aug. 1, 2018.

Provide for a $1,000 increase for state employees, effective Aug. 1, 2018. It does not pertain to higher education, legislators or constitutional officers, such as statewide elected officials and judges.

The plan does not include an increase in the gross production tax on oil and natural gas. That is something Democrats have demanded.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on October 26, 2017, 11:32:11 am
Anybody know what they got on him?

Inman Quits Oklahoma Governor's Race, Will Resign from Legislature

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/inman-quits-oklahoma-governors-race-will-resign-legislature (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/inman-quits-oklahoma-governors-race-will-resign-legislature)

Quote
Oklahoma House Minority Leader Scott Inman announced he is no longer running for governor — and he’s resigning from the legislature at the beginning of 2018.

Inman made the announcement on Facebook and Twitter Wednesday afternoon as the House debated Republicans’ $442 million plan to fix the state budget.

Inman did not vote Wednesday on Republicans’ budget proposal and was only briefly on the floor to ask questions about it.

"Why is it financially smart for us to vote for a plan that would require more one-time money and still leave a $400 million budget hole next year?" Inman said.

Inman said he can no longer ask his wife and children to sacrifice for him in his political career. He says he’s staying to see special session work completed.

He encouraged Oklahomans to continue pushing for public education, health care, criminal justice reform and a fair tax structure.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: dioscorides on October 26, 2017, 12:05:43 pm
Anybody know what they got on him?

Inman Quits Oklahoma Governor's Race, Will Resign from Legislature

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/inman-quits-oklahoma-governors-race-will-resign-legislature (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/inman-quits-oklahoma-governors-race-will-resign-legislature)


Rumor on social media is that there is a pregnant staffer.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: RecycleMichael on October 26, 2017, 12:06:30 pm
http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-senate-tells-house-add-gross-production-tax-budget-deal


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on October 26, 2017, 12:36:48 pm
1992 OK GOP:  Lets fix it so it is basically impossible for Democrats to raise taxes.  Yeah!
DNC: Ummm, that spells long term trouble.  We are supposed to be responsible leaders and we are in charge. How about no?
OK GOP:  Take it to the people!

2004 OK GOP:  Hey, we have control now.  Lets cut taxes all over. Yeah!
DNC:  Ummm, we will go broke.
OK GOP:  No way, we will totally be rich if we cut taxes!  Surpluses are coming our way!

2014: OK GOP:  Lets set up a system that automatically cuts income taxes.  Yeah!
DNC:  Ummm, we are already going broke.
OK GOP:  No way, we will totally make more in revenue if we cut taxes. 

2014 OK GOP:  Hey, lets cut the gross production tax.  Yeah!
DNC:  Ummm, we will go broke.
OK GOP:  No way, we will be doing so much more bidness the cash will flow.  The cash must flow!

2016 OK GOP:  Hey, ummm, we need some more coin.  Lets raise "fees" but totally not raise taxes.
DNC:  This isn't a real solution.  Please stop. Also, your automatic tax cuts are going to be triggered again.  We're broke.
OK GOP:  Nah, we just need to get spending under control and raise fees.

2017 OK GOP:  HOLY CRAP WE ARE BROKE!1!!1!!!  Stupid Courts threw out our fees!  Lets raise taxes, but not on oil companies or on wealthy individuals.
DNC:  Ummm, no.  Lets find a real solution.
OK GOP:  Stupid Democrats!  Why won't you work with us to make sound fiscal decisions!


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: TeeDub on October 26, 2017, 01:28:27 pm

So essentially you are saying that the DNC have been doomsayers since 1992?

They got it wrong for so long that when they finally get it right it appears that they are prophets!



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 26, 2017, 05:52:26 pm
So essentially you are saying that the DNC have been doomsayers since 1992?

They got it wrong for so long that when they finally get it right it appears that they are prophets!




They had it right then and now.  It has been so overwhelmingly proven beyond any doubt that cutting taxes does not create more of anything - especially not jobs or total tax revenue or higher incomes for anyone but the richest 1%.   But then, one would have to pull ones head out of that dark brown sewer tube that IS Fake Fox News.





Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: cannon_fodder on October 27, 2017, 09:26:53 am
So essentially you are saying that the DNC have been doomsayers since 1992?

They got it wrong for so long that when they finally get it right it appears that they are prophets!

In 1992 the DNC said requiring a super majority to raise taxes and a simple majority to lower taxes would result in an untenable fiscal situation.  When the GOP took control that exact scenario played out.  That isn't magic or prophecy, it is using analytical skills and logic to draw a conclusion.  The GOP in California did the exact same thing in the 1990s.  The Cali DNC kept building in automatic increases to many popular programs, the GOP kept warning that unlimited spending couldn't last.  Eventually the program spending outstripped the states ability to pay.  There are many examples of both parties having stupid ideas and getting called out on the results well ahead of fruition.

It's not magic, it's responsible governing.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on October 27, 2017, 11:22:54 am
Rumor on social media is that there is a pregnant staffer.

Oh man...prob makes that "eh eh eh" sound like the principal on Forrest Gump...

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/f__/images/6/6f/Forrest_gump.gif/revision/latest?cb=20120802015835&path-prefix=forrestgump)


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on October 27, 2017, 11:38:33 am
So the higher tax proposed for low point beer...won't low point beer cease to be once QT can carry high point beer?


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: TeeDub on October 27, 2017, 07:14:20 pm
So the higher tax proposed for low point beer...won't low point beer cease to be once QT can carry high point beer?

It was my understanding that they will most likely keep low point beer so that they can sell it outside liquor store hours...  I would image a large part of beer sales is after 9, on Sundays, etc.

If that part of the law changed I missed it.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on November 03, 2017, 11:46:16 am
Biggs Leaves Legislature

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/biggs-leaves-legislature (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/biggs-leaves-legislature)

Quote
State Rep. Scott Biggs, a three-term Chickasha Republican who has recently opposed changes in Oklahoma's criminal justice system, has announced his resignation effective immediately. Biggs resigned Thursday in a letter to House Speaker Charles McCall, in which he said he'd accepted a federal appointment effective immediately. He didn't specify what his new job will be but said he believes he "can do much more for out state as I work to promote the agriculture industry in Oklahoma."

These jackasses need to pay for the special elections they force.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Conan71 on November 03, 2017, 04:47:31 pm
Biggs Leaves Legislature

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/biggs-leaves-legislature (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/biggs-leaves-legislature)

These jackasses need to pay for the special elections they force.

See, we don't have this problem in New Mexico, they just go to the state house in Santa Fe to die, apparently.  Our state representative has been in office since 1973.  He's so old school he doesn't use email- serious.  Our state senator has been ensconced er in office since 1991.

Hey, they may be old and corrupt, but they don't cause daily embarrassments.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 07, 2017, 01:10:33 pm
See, we don't have this problem in New Mexico, they just go to the state house in Santa Fe to die, apparently.  Our state representative has been in office since 1973.  He's so old school he doesn't use email- serious.  Our state senator has been ensconced er in office since 1991.

Hey, they may be old and corrupt, but they don't cause daily embarrassments.


Everyone is corrupt.  But you are so right - we never hear about NM doing the stupid stuff we do here!!



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: patric on November 13, 2017, 11:06:11 am
These jackasses need to pay for the special elections they force.

Bad Laws Cost Oklahoma Millions in Court and in Lost Opportunity

Passed legislation, that even the non-legal scholar understands as unconstitutional, is costing this state millions in court. Dollars, many will tell you, we don't have to spend. Oklahoma has supplied material for late night comics and internet ridicule.


http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/bad-laws-cost-oklahoma-millions-court-and-lost-opportunity




Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 13, 2017, 12:29:56 pm
Bad Laws Cost Oklahoma Millions in Court and in Lost Opportunity

Passed legislation, that even the non-legal scholar understands as unconstitutional, is costing this state millions in court. Dollars, many will tell you, we don't have to spend. Oklahoma has supplied material for late night comics and internet ridicule.


http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/bad-laws-cost-oklahoma-millions-court-and-lost-opportunity





But we have a GREAT chance to get Amazon headquarters...!!


Not.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: swake on November 14, 2017, 10:05:04 pm
So Jenks just elected a Democrat to the state senate.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 15, 2017, 09:38:48 am
So Jenks just elected a Democrat to the state senate.




Surprising, isn't it...?

East Tulsa/West BA just elected another "cut waste" Republicontin - Ross Ford.  Those poor people just couldn't catch a clue if it was sitting still on their front porch with a leash and collar around it's neck.



Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: Townsend on November 16, 2017, 12:19:50 pm
Loophole allows fundraisers during Oklahoma special session

http://www.kjrh.com/lifestyle/loophole-allows-fundraisers-during-oklahoma-special-session (http://www.kjrh.com/lifestyle/loophole-allows-fundraisers-during-oklahoma-special-session)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) -- Oklahoma legislators have been raising thousands of dollars from lobbyists at lavish fundraisers during a special session limping into its eighth week, yet they've failed to make much progress toward plugging a $215 million hole in the state budget.

The Associated Press obtained invitations to a dozen scheduled fundraisers for some of the Legislature's top Republican leaders, including the powerful chairs of the appropriations committees in the House and Senate.

Legislators can face up to a year in jail and fines for accepting contributions from lobbyists during the regular session that runs from February to May. But that misdemeanor crime doesn't apply during the special session now limping into its eighth week.

State House and Senate members are taking full advantage, raising money for elections a year away.


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: bluelake on November 16, 2017, 09:48:44 pm

Everyone is corrupt.  But you are so right - we never hear about NM doing the stupid stuff we do here!!



Close enough?  

Quote
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (KRQE) – Nearly two weeks after an arrest warrant was issued for a New Mexico man running for Congress, police found him at an Albuquerque apartment complex.

What he’s been doing since the warrant was issued out of Santa Fe, is a mystery.

Democrat David Alcon is running for the state’s open District 2 Congressional Seat. Now, he’s behind bars for allegedly stalking a woman in Santa Fe.

A woman attending a Halloween party on October 28 at a hotel in Santa Fe said she started receiving persistent texts from Alcon — some suggesting that he was watching her, other messages professing his love for her, and one picture of his genitals.

Later that night, the woman said Alcon texted her again, that he was outside her apartment.

A warrant for Alcon’s arrest was issued on October 30. Now, rather than turning himself into Santa Fe police, Alcon was arrested Friday in Albuquerque.

Albuquerque Police were called to the Villa De San Felipe Apartments for a welfare check around 3:30 p.m. on Friday. APD did not elaborate on what happened when they got to the scene, just that Alcon was arrested. He’s also not facing any new charges out of Albuquerque, according to jail records.

At this time it’s unclear why Alcon was there. All of his publicly listed addresses are for Milan, New Mexico.

Alcon is now sitting in MDC on a no-bond hold so he can be extradited to Santa Fe. KRQE News 13 reached out to Alcon’s campaign for comment, but have not heard back.

Alcon was previously convicted of stalking a woman in 2007.

http://krqe.com/2017/11/12/new-mexico-congressional-candidate-arrested-on-stalking-charge/


Title: Re: Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 17, 2017, 08:51:30 am
Close enough?  

http://krqe.com/2017/11/12/new-mexico-congressional-candidate-arrested-on-stalking-charge/


No doubt they have crime and their own headlines - I had two cousins and their families in Albuquerque for decades until they died a few years ago and would get to hear about stuff.  But they don't get the national headlines about passing dozens of laws they know are unconstitutional.  Don't get the headlines for being last in the nation for support of education.  And they certainly don't have roads and infrastructure as bad as OK.


They do host Arizona criminals, though - unintentionally.  Since Republican Jan Brewer, Gov of AZ was so focused on building a wall to keep southerners out, and pushing money to her cronies in the private prison sector, she didn't pay enough attention to the killers in her private - for profit - prison system.  3 of the worst escaped about 2010.  Went to Quay Cty, NM, where they kidnapped and killed a couple - Gary and Linda Haas - of Tecumseh, OK.  Drove along with their stolen RV trailer until they noticed blood dripping out, then went to the boonies and torched it.   Linda was the sister of a guy I used to work with.