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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: davideinstein on November 22, 2012, 04:48:02 pm



Title: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: davideinstein on November 22, 2012, 04:48:02 pm
I'm unsure what the technical name for this area is, and I know there is a long term plan for Hillcrest here, but what should we do economically for the buildings along 11th Street between Utica & Peoria? Seems like an overlooked area right in the middle of everything.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: DowntownDan on November 26, 2012, 10:06:38 am
I drive through this area most days.  One of those buildings appears to have been gutted and is currently supported with wooden beams, but there has been no work on it in months.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: carltonplace on November 26, 2012, 12:41:05 pm
I'm unsure what the technical name for this area is, and I know there is a long term plan for Hillcrest here, but what should we do economically for the buildings along 11th Street between Utica & Peoria? Seems like an overlooked area right in the middle of everything.

You're right, 11th St is the dividing line between Forest Orchard and the Pearl District. I guess officialy its part of Route 66 and it sure is due for some attention.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: SXSW on May 11, 2015, 03:49:39 pm
Just bumping this because there are some positive new developments along this stretch of 11th with the rehabbed building at Rockford and one under construction at Quincy.  Lots of cool local businesses have set up shop in the past couple years. 

Anyone know what Hillcrest plans to do with the empty lots between 13th St and 13th Pl west of Utica? 


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: AquaMan on May 11, 2015, 06:22:10 pm
Its due to be a physical rehabilitation center. I'm not sure Hillcrest has anything to do with it though.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: carltonplace on May 12, 2015, 10:25:09 am
Its due to be a physical rehabilitation center. I'm not sure Hillcrest has anything to do with it though.

The land was owned by the Lutheran church. I'm betting a certain Utical Medical Corridor loving developer has this now.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: saintnicster on May 12, 2015, 10:42:01 am
Anyone know what Hillcrest plans to do with the empty lots between 13th St and 13th Pl west of Utica? 
The land was owned by the Lutheran church. I'm betting a certain Utical Medical Corridor loving developer has this now.
Are we talking about these? http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=20797.msg291470#msg291470


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: Weatherdemon on May 12, 2015, 12:15:12 pm
They tore down the house my wife and I rented together after we first started dating for this :o(
We loved that crooked porched house with the red door so they better do something nice down there!


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: davideinstein on February 24, 2016, 11:29:52 pm
Is this the next boom area? It's gradually still developing four years after my original post.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on February 25, 2016, 02:32:32 pm
Is this the next boom area? It's gradually still developing four years after my original post.

The area south of Hillcrest and the Heart facility (north of the BA) is slotted to be expansion for Hillcrest.

The Pearl District is really coming along though. Has anyone been down 11th from Peoria to Utica recently? At least 8 buildings have been remodelled already with several new shops and there are 3-4 larger street-front buildings with ongoing renovations. It is creating quite a significant "South Pearl District" to compliment the main Pearl District area on 6th. Studio Soul is a really neat bar/concert venue.

If it can keep up at this rate, maybe Cherry St will sort of overflow north and help turn that neighborhood around (which has mostly already happened between Utica & Lewis on 13th st/pl).


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: AquaMan on February 25, 2016, 06:29:06 pm
Slotted by who?


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: davideinstein on February 25, 2016, 07:40:35 pm
The area south of Hillcrest and the Heart facility (north of the BA) is slotted to be expansion for Hillcrest.

The Pearl District is really coming along though. Has anyone been down 11th from Peoria to Utica recently? At least 8 buildings have been remodelled already with several new shops and there are 3-4 larger street-front buildings with ongoing renovations. It is creating quite a significant "South Pearl District" to compliment the main Pearl District area on 6th. Studio Soul is a really neat bar/concert venue.

If it can keep up at this rate, maybe Cherry St will sort of overflow north and help turn that neighborhood around (which has mostly already happened between Utica & Lewis on 13th st/pl).

I drive by daily. I think this is the best geographic location for development in the entire city.

Isn't there a master plan for Hillcrest and medical related development all the way to Peoria?


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: rdj on February 29, 2016, 12:12:59 pm
Slotted by who?

Last I heard it was a senior care facility south of Hillcrest.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: SXSW on July 30, 2017, 11:01:11 pm
Last I heard it was a senior care facility south of Hillcrest.

Parkside is building a new mental health facility at the NE corner of 13th & Trenton.  $38 million, 5 story building with 80 beds.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/parkside-psychiatric-hospital-to-more-than-double-in-patient-mental/article_178faa01-722e-57a2-8c0b-165425ca329e.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/parkside-psychiatric-hospital-to-more-than-double-in-patient-mental/article_178faa01-722e-57a2-8c0b-165425ca329e.html)

Still a lot of vacant lots south of 13th, anyone know what the plan is for that area along Utica?


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on July 31, 2017, 08:35:09 am
Parkside is building a new mental health facility at the NE corner of 13th & Trenton.  $38 million, 5 story building with 80 beds.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/parkside-psychiatric-hospital-to-more-than-double-in-patient-mental/article_178faa01-722e-57a2-8c0b-165425ca329e.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/parkside-psychiatric-hospital-to-more-than-double-in-patient-mental/article_178faa01-722e-57a2-8c0b-165425ca329e.html)

Still a lot of vacant lots south of 13th, anyone know what the plan is for that area along Utica?

That is good news!

Also, the Tulsa Center is building an Adaptive Sports Complex at the empty lot on the NE corner of 11th and Utica:
http://www.tulsacenter.org/who-we-are/facility/dream-big-expansion/ (http://www.tulsacenter.org/who-we-are/facility/dream-big-expansion/)


There are a lot of empty lots around there. I guessed the hospitals bought them for future expansion and perhaps to create sort of a buffer from the rough neighborhoods around there. They demolished quite a few apartments.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on July 31, 2017, 08:43:42 am
$38 million, 5 story building with 80 beds.


That sounds very expensive per bed. $475k per bed. Also, that doesn't sound like very many beds per floor either. 5 story building for only 80 beds... And at 114,500 square feet, that's about 1400 ft2 per bed! I know there's tons of other stuff that will be there and that is likely takes a lot of different waiting rooms and common areas and medical rooms, but it seems like quite a bit of space per patient. But I guess that is how it is in health care. Hospitals are even higher in cost per bed. It is a shame this stuff is so expensive and that Oklahoma is so far behind in having adequate health care facilities.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: SXSW on July 31, 2017, 09:54:27 am
Here is a rendering

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/99/a9907650-b5a3-573d-b4ad-3832e98f76aa/597a73468f997.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C614)

I wonder what happens to the existing Parkside hospital?


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: sgrizzle on July 31, 2017, 10:00:11 pm
That sounds very expensive per bed. $475k per bed. Also, that doesn't sound like very many beds per floor either. 5 story building for only 80 beds... And at 114,500 square feet, that's about 1400 ft2 per bed! I know there's tons of other stuff that will be there and that is likely takes a lot of different waiting rooms and common areas and medical rooms, but it seems like quite a bit of space per patient. But I guess that is how it is in health care. Hospitals are even higher in cost per bed. It is a shame this stuff is so expensive and that Oklahoma is so far behind in having adequate health care facilities.

114k sq ft. You can probably expect the first floor is entry, waiting, vending, security, etc. and has no beds so 91k sq ft remaining. Probably at least a floor for intake, examination, treatment, records, etc for 68k. On any office or hospital plan you have bathrooms, elevators, extra wide hallways, etc. that take half of the remaining so 34k. Add nurse stations, office, supply closets, etc and I bet you are closer to 24k sqft or roughly 15x20 which is not far off.

In hospital construction, like with many things, overhead is huge.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 06, 2017, 12:18:14 pm
Quote
Pearl District land being prepared for redevelopment

The future of a former children’s shelter site in the Pearl District should become clearer in the next couple of months.

At a Tulsa Development Authority meeting Thursday, a city official updated progress on the 4.4-acre site, of which 2.6 acres will be offered for redevelopment. Proposals are due Oct. 13 and the TDA could choose one by December.

Part of the city’s 6th Street Infill Plan, the property is an entire city block, bounded by Seventh Street on the north, Eighth Street on the south, Rockford Avenue on the east and Quincy Avenue on the west. This location is less than a half mile east of the Tulsa Central Business District.

Roger Acebo, acquisition and relocation administrator for the city, said Thursday that the former Laura Dester Shelter site is challenging because of its C-shaped development area — a portion is reserved for flood control — but he said he expects it to receive between three and 10 proposals. The interest has been mainly from Oklahoma and surrounding states, he said.

The state of Oklahoma sold the site to the city in 2015 as part of the city of Tulsa’s 6th Street Infill (Pearl District) Plan, and in January 2016 the city approved TDA to act as an agent to acquire other properties in this plan area to redevelop.

Real estate unavailable for redevelopment (about 1.80 acres) will contribute to flood-management in accordance with the Elm Creek Watershed Plan. Eventually, city storm-water management staff will work with the selected redevelopment firm on conceptual design of the flood control basin on the site.

Ten parcels have been acquired by the TDA and five are being razed by the city: 717 S. Rockford Ave.; 718 S. St. Louis Ave.; 727 S. Troost Ave. (land to be held for TDA redevelopment); 1007 E. Fifth Place and 1124 E. Fifth St. An additional property (414 S. Owasso Ave.) is under contract awaiting the start of an environmental phase.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/pearl-district-land-being-prepared-for-redevelopment/article_a2345208-1701-565a-b22c-568722408cd9.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/pearl-district-land-being-prepared-for-redevelopment/article_a2345208-1701-565a-b22c-568722408cd9.html)


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on November 01, 2017, 02:18:18 pm
Quote
Developers Reveal Proposal For Former Laura Dester Site

TULSA, Oklahoma - We're getting our first look at what some developers envision for the former Laura Dester site in Tulsa's Pearl District.
Six months ago, the Tulsa Development Authority put out a request for proposals asking developers what they would do with the space.

The site near 8th and Rockford has been abandoned for years.

But Tuesday, we got a look at what we could soon see there.

The neighborhood is welcoming new businesses regularly, like Garrett O'Dell's Cirque coffee.

"There are a lot of creative minds that are opening up businesses here and working out of here," O'Dell said.

But a problem, he said, is there isn't much of a live or work environment.

"Sort of since we've opened here there has been virtually no foot traffic in this area and so anything that can bring that here is awesome," O'Dell said.

He is referring to a proposal by Tulsa-based Ross Group and Nelson Stowe, who are partnering with lead developer PrairieFire out of Kansas City.

At least 140 apartments, parking, and a central courtyard that goes along with the city's request to keep that flood retention land in place.

Most people we spoke with felt good about it, saying it's something that will bring people to this area and keep people here who were considering leaving.

"Because it is quality housing near downtown that they can afford that is urban and cool and funky and they can walk to their coffee shop," said Leanne Benton, Pearl District Association president

But some question why the proposal has the current buildings being torn down instead of repurposed.

PrairieFire development said  the buildings simply aren't in good shape and the cost of rehabbing them would be substantially higher than building new.

"I think most developers come in and say 'how can we maximize the land, do a really quality infill project that matches the neighborhood but uses the land well and I think they have hit that target really well," Benton said.




http://www.newson6.com/story/36730474/developers-reveal-proposal-for-former-laura-dester-site (http://www.newson6.com/story/36730474/developers-reveal-proposal-for-former-laura-dester-site)


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on November 01, 2017, 02:33:12 pm
I know the existing buildings there aren't really cool looking right now, but I wish someone would propose a way to re-purpose them into housing. I'm not a huge fan of this proposal for that reason. It demolishes everything there and starts from scratch. There are plenty of completely empty lots where that sort of thing would make sense. Why not use the existing brick structures? I bet they could look amazing.

I do like that they have proposed 140 units (That is a lot for that space) and they look pretty good. Being 4 stories would make it a really good use of space for the area also. I wish they would've aligned the longer section on Quincy Ave so that more units could be closer to the heart of the Pearl District. Hopefully the TDA will ask for that.

It may not sound like a lot, but that change would take the farthest parts from 0.4 miles away from the Phoenix/Cirque (where it mentally starts to feel like a longer/inconvenient walk for most people), down to 0.3 miles away where walking seems like the most convenient option. On a day-in day-out basis, it would be far better for those to be as far to the NW corner of that lot as possible.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: SXSW on November 01, 2017, 08:02:02 pm
I see that lot closest to Quincy being developed as a separate building, maybe live-work townhomes. 


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 11, 2019, 12:05:57 pm
Quote
Tulsa Development Authority, investors terminate plans to redevelop former Tulsa Boys Home/Laura Dester property


A proposed redevelopment of the blighted former Tulsa Boys Home/Laura Dester site has been scrapped, the Tulsa Development Authority announced Thursday.

The action came after about a one-hour executive session at the TDA’s monthly meeting.

A group of local developers had backed a project called Pearl Place, which would have converted the former Tulsa Boys Home/Laura Dester site at 1415 E. Eighth St. into 60 to 65 loft apartments. The investors in July initially presented the proposal to TDA, which voted to allow the group to enhance its plan.


On Thursday, TDA Chairman Roy Peters read a joint statement from the TDA and the investment group, OMG LLC.

“The parties have been in active negotiations for more than eight months and, despite having expended a great deal of time and effort, have come to the collective realization that a redevelopment of the existing facilities at the site in their current condition is neither practical nor financially feasible,” Peters said.

TDA will be voting in the coming weeks on whether to move forward with the demolition of the site’s five buildings.

“Meanwhile, the city and the Tulsa Planning Office are evaluating opportunities to identify interim uses for the site to ensure that it remains an asset to this quickly developing area of Tulsa,” Peters said.

Tulsa Boys Home dormitories were built at that site beginning in 1948, and the property later became the Laura Dester Children’s Center.

The state of Oklahoma sold the site to the city of Tulsa in 2015 as part of the city’s Sixth Street Infill (Pearl District) Plan, and in January 2016 the city authorized TDA to act as an agent to acquire other properties in this plan area to redevelop.

The property has long been a hangout for vagrants and a drain on the city’s budget. At a TDA meeting in July, TDA Executive Director O.C. Walker said that during the growing season, mowing the property costs about $3,500 monthly, with security running roughly $1,000 over the same period.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/tulsa-development-authority-investors-terminate-plans-to-redevelop-former-tulsa/article_59bb3087-1360-5302-ac40-b87184069622.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/tulsa-development-authority-investors-terminate-plans-to-redevelop-former-tulsa/article_59bb3087-1360-5302-ac40-b87184069622.html)


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 11, 2019, 12:23:55 pm
So another bunch of old buildings will be demolished. I wish they would elaborate on why repurposing the buildings was "neither practical nor financially feasible". What makes those so different from the many many buildings which have been renovated all around into multi-units? They were brick exterior and looked solid and in much better shape than many of the single-family homes I've seen get renovated.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1510329,-95.9733446,3a,49.8y,122.24h,93.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn422R-RUGkTREnt1IJ76Dg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1510329,-95.9733446,3a,49.8y,122.24h,93.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn422R-RUGkTREnt1IJ76Dg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Quote
Walker said that during the growing season, mowing the property costs about $3,500 monthly,

How is it $3500/month for that property? I need to get a lawn business and get some contracts for the city! After they demolish all of the buildings, it will be far more expensive to mow!

They are going to be demolishing 5 buildings with a combined 42,000 square feet. That could potentially be converted to 40+  apartments in an area of growth. Instead, it will be empty lots and will likely remain that way for well over a decade, increasing the monthly lawn care cost and ending any sort of ability to bring in revenue from the property, wasting thousands of tons of brick and concrete along with other even worse types of wastes.

Is the TDA run by the same people running the Tulsa Fairgrounds (with the preemptive Drillers stadium demo)?


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: SXSW on March 11, 2019, 12:35:39 pm
It sounds like the developers couldn't make the project work with the existing buildings, what about once the site is scrapped? 


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: DTowner on March 11, 2019, 02:05:16 pm
From a map, it looks like a there is a lot of open space around each of the five buildings, which could account for the high mowing bill (although the picture accompanying the article does not indicate it was being mowed very often).  That may also explain why the economics of rehabbing the existing buildings won’t work.
 
It wasn’t clear from the article, but was this put out to bid, or did the group negotiating with TDA have an exclusive deal?  If it was just an exclusive for this one group, it is unclear how the TDA can determine it is not economically feasible to redevelopment the existing buildings.  Given the prior use, I can see why it could be very expensive to rehab these buildings into apartments, but the TDA hasn't exactly earned a lot of blanket trust on these matters over the years.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 11, 2019, 03:39:32 pm
From a map, it looks like a there is a lot of open space around each of the five buildings, which could account for the high mowing bill (although the picture accompanying the article does not indicate it was being mowed very often).  That may also explain why the economics of rehabbing the existing buildings won’t work.
 
It wasn’t clear from the article, but was this put out to bid, or did the group negotiating with TDA have an exclusive deal?  If it was just an exclusive for this one group, it is unclear how the TDA can determine it is not economically feasible to redevelopment the existing buildings.  Given the prior use, I can see why it could be very expensive to rehab these buildings into apartments, but the TDA hasn't exactly earned a lot of blanket trust on these matters over the years.


You're right, that the bulk of the property is grass and they don't mow it very regularly. Regardless of any use of that block, the TDA said they have to keep a large portion of that property vacant for flood mitigation. That part is the bulk of the lawn maintenance cost and that part is mandatory irrespective of what happens with the existing buildings. The proposal was 60-65 units and just a few units would cover the lawn bill (~$2000/mo spread over year) so that wasn't really the issue.

I saw that Group M was involved and they've rehabbed so many places (like Campbell Hotel) so I'll trust their judgement if they're the ones who said it's not feasible, but still feel like the citizens of Tulsa deserve to know why they're going to spend so much money to demolish these buildings which look very much salvageable and interesting on the outside and why our tax dollars paid to let them get to this point just to be destroyed.

They had a RFP a while back and got a nice submission for street-fronting apartments with 100+ units. Looked pretty nice but very expensive.



Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: SXSW on March 11, 2019, 08:37:08 pm
What happened to the 140 unit Rockford Park proposal?  It had notable developers like Nelson Stowe and Ross Group behind it, along with Prairie Fire which specializes in affordable housing out of KC.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/apartments-proposed-for-former-laura-dester-shelter-site-in-pearl/article_69365476-e693-54e4-95eb-0f55860be91b.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/apartments-proposed-for-former-laura-dester-shelter-site-in-pearl/article_69365476-e693-54e4-95eb-0f55860be91b.html)


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 12, 2019, 08:14:46 am
What happened to the 140 unit Rockford Park proposal?  It had notable developers like Nelson Stowe and Ross Group behind it, along with Prairie Fire which specializes in affordable housing out of KC.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/apartments-proposed-for-former-laura-dester-shelter-site-in-pearl/article_69365476-e693-54e4-95eb-0f55860be91b.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/apartments-proposed-for-former-laura-dester-shelter-site-in-pearl/article_69365476-e693-54e4-95eb-0f55860be91b.html)

I remember the cost being a concern and city counsel wanted them to try to save existing buildings first, so they sent another RFP for that first. It's a shame they don't announce what the status is for that proposal or next steps. If the plan were to move forward with that project, it would be a win in the long run. The layout of the property (with required flood area) makes it a very tough sell to developers:

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/57/a5785a46-67ca-59a3-8eac-f47a5f8ede86/59f9d88c6b1aa.image.jpg)


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 12, 2019, 08:20:25 am
Note in that layout on the right side it says "Connection to Future Park" where existing homes are. They plan to level several entire blocks to create a massive flood-control pond there. They also have yet another one planned for the blocks east of 75, north of 6th street and West of Peoria. So they want to just keep demolishing everything... It's like "Urban Renewal" in the 60s all over again.

The main Pearl Pond is seemingly necessary for flood mitigation (I haven't seen that report) but the one by the highway is a $20 million project that will slightly reduce chance of flooding for 29 low-value properties and 1 expensive property that could have its own mitigation for far cheaper. The plan is to fund it by selling million dollar water front lots to developers!


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: DTowner on March 12, 2019, 08:51:42 am
Note in that layout on the right side it says "Connection to Future Park" where existing homes are. They plan to level several entire blocks to create a massive flood-control pond there. They also have yet another one planned for the blocks east of 75, north of 6th street and West of Peoria. So they want to just keep demolishing everything... It's like "Urban Renewal" in the 60s all over again.

The main Pearl Pond is seemingly necessary for flood mitigation (I haven't seen that report) but the one by the highway is a $20 million project that will slightly reduce chance of flooding for 29 low-value properties and 1 expensive property that could have its own mitigation for far cheaper. The plan is to fund it by selling million dollar water front lots to developers!

Don't worry, it will all make sense when that canal is built down the middle of 6th Street.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: SXSW on March 12, 2019, 10:30:31 am
Note in that layout on the right side it says "Connection to Future Park" where existing homes are. They plan to level several entire blocks to create a massive flood-control pond there. They also have yet another one planned for the blocks east of 75, north of 6th street and West of Peoria. So they want to just keep demolishing everything... It's like "Urban Renewal" in the 60s all over again.

The main Pearl Pond is seemingly necessary for flood mitigation (I haven't seen that report) but the one by the highway is a $20 million project that will slightly reduce chance of flooding for 29 low-value properties and 1 expensive property that could have its own mitigation for far cheaper. The plan is to fund it by selling million dollar water front lots to developers!

Is that still the plan?  The Pearl is a much different place than it was when that plan was first developed.  Seems like they should be rethinking the flood control plan for this area.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 12, 2019, 12:37:49 pm
Is that still the plan?  The Pearl is a much different place than it was when that plan was first developed.  Seems like they should be rethinking the flood control plan for this area.

Yes, it is still on their future plans and on their latest map:
http://www.tulsadevelopmentauthority.org/wp-content/uploads/extra/pearl_map.pdf (http://www.tulsadevelopmentauthority.org/wp-content/uploads/extra/pearl_map.pdf)

The smaller west pond will cost an estimated $20 million so the larger one will likely be ~$40-$50 million because it is close to triple the size and is an an area much more densely filled with houses and will require much more infrastructure and changes.

The canal is wishful thinking but would be neat if done well like the Pearl District association proposed. Realistically, we will likely get a large pond with moderate park amenities. Will lose some priceless Victorian and craftsman style houses, but will also clean up a lot of blight, but will be a huge hit on density in that area unless they build multi units all around it. Those residents need somewhere to live.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 12, 2019, 12:41:54 pm
From a map, it looks like a there is a lot of open space around each of the five buildings, which could account for the high mowing bill (although the picture accompanying the article does not indicate it was being mowed very often).  That may also explain why the economics of rehabbing the existing buildings won’t work.
 
It wasn’t clear from the article, but was this put out to bid, or did the group negotiating with TDA have an exclusive deal?  If it was just an exclusive for this one group, it is unclear how the TDA can determine it is not economically feasible to redevelopment the existing buildings.  Given the prior use, I can see why it could be very expensive to rehab these buildings into apartments, but the TDA hasn't exactly earned a lot of blanket trust on these matters over the years.


TDA owns the property (purchased from City of Tulsa a few years ago).  They were getting bids from anyone and looks like just Group M and a couple others worked on the bid to help TDA decide.

On the TDA's Pearl Map, it marks most of the Laura Dester site as a flood water retaining zone including 2 buildings. That might be a big part of why it's not feasible. Look for these buildings to be demolished and remain empty for decades until the big east pond is built.
http://www.tulsadevelopmentauthority.org/wp-content/uploads/extra/pearl_map.pdf (http://www.tulsadevelopmentauthority.org/wp-content/uploads/extra/pearl_map.pdf)



Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: SXSW on March 12, 2019, 01:09:11 pm
Anyone know what timeline the city has to make these improvements?  It would seem that these are pretty important for the neighborhood to grow outside of the 6th St corridor and the Central Park development. 

I’d put this pretty high up on the city’s priority list because of its location, existing and planned improvements and ties into the big current push to revitalize 11th/Route 66 and the neighborhoods between downtown and TU.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 18, 2019, 12:38:34 pm
There's a meeting at City Hall today at 5pm about this plan to use imminent domain to build a pond so they can have high-dollar water-front redevelopment:

Quote
National advocacy group joins 'Save the Pearl' effort to oppose city use of eminent domain for retention pond
A national law firm and advocacy group is in town to urge the city of Tulsa to halt its plan to use eminent domain to build a detention pond in the Pearl District near downtown.

The Institute for Justice’s Chad Reese plans to address the topic with city councilors Wednesday at their regularly scheduled 5 p.m. meeting.

“I just want to share some of the stories that we have heard about the Pearl District, the position of the Institute for Justice on the issue, and why the Save the Pearl coalition feels that eminent domain in the Pearl District is not an appropriate use of the city of Tulsa’s eminent domain power,” he said.


The city was in the process of acquiring 45 properties near VFW Post 577 and the Indian Health Care Center Resource Center on Sixth Street in preparation for construction of the Elm Creek West Pond before the project was put on hold after some affected property owners objected to the city’s use of eminent domain.

Reese is the activism policy manager for the Institute for Justice. He said the Arlington, Virginia-based organization works around the country to protect homeowners whose property is being taken by cities and states for economic development purposes that are not a true public use.

“So our view is that eminent domain should always be a last resort for a true public use,” Reese said. “And it seemed clear from the city’s various planning documents over the years that the real goal of the Elm Creek Basin redevelopment plans and the Pearl District redevelopment plans are to further economic development.

“The view of the Institute for Justice and, in fact, the Oklahoma Supreme Court is that, in the state of Oklahoma, economic redevelopment does not qualify as a true public use.

The Elm Creek Master Plan initially envisioned one large detention pond at Centennial Park on Sixth Street, but the plan was scrapped in favor of three smaller ones.

The city completed construction of the Centennial Park detention pond years ago. In addition to the Elm Creek West Pond, the city has plans to construct Elm Creek East Pond between Seventh and Eighth streets from Quincy to Troost avenues.

City officials say the detention ponds will reduce the flood plain area from 21st Street and Boulder Avenue all the way up to Centennial Park, and then east along Sixth Street to the 800 block of Rockford Avenue.

Mayoral Chief of Staff Jack Blair said Wednesday that the concerns raised by the Institute for Justice and the Save the Pearl coalition reflects a misunderstanding of city processes and the long history of Elm Creek Master Plan.

“The drainage plan was developed in direct response to the devastating floods of the mid-1980s,” Blair said. “We have always tried to realize ancillary benefits from flood control projects, such as in the Mingo Creek basin. Ancillary benefits do not diminish the underlying flood control purpose.”


  Blair noted that the West Pond project was an integral component of the neighborhood-led Sixth Street Infill Plan.

“The Sixth Street Plan, adopted more than 15 years ago, recognized that the risk of flooding is a continuous threat to the health, safety, and property of a large number of Tulsans,” Blair said. “Nevertheless, we continue to evaluate all options, and all eminent domain proceedings have been stopped indefinitely.”

Tara Dawson was among a handful of Pearl District property owners who dropped by Cirque Wednesday morning to grab a red “Save the Pearl” T-shirt and discuss the project with Reese.

Dawson and her husband, John Dawson, own a property the city had initiated condemnation proceedings on.

She said they were not informed by the previous owner of the property that the city had begun the process of purchasing the property.

“All the (city’s) project plans say a tad bit about flood mitigation but a whole lot more about redevelopment and revitalization,” she said. “So our constitutionality of home ownership is in jeopardy here, I feel like.

“They are using this as a guise to use eminent domain where it shouldn’t be used.”

Reese said he is encouraged by the fact that everyone involved seems willing to come to the table to discuss the matter. He would like to see the City Council rescind the condemnation it has approved on the Dawson’s property and reverse their votes on the Elm Creek Basin and Pearl District plans.

His hope, Reese said, is that the city would rethink the plans “in a way that doesn’t require the use of eminent domain.”

He did not rule out possible legal action against the city.

“We are a national law firm that litigates eminent domain all across the country,” Reese said. “So we are prepared, if necessary."
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/national-advocacy-group-joins-save-the-pearl-effort-to-oppose/article_7fe6fb58-28f6-5db6-902c-7092508fee88.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/national-advocacy-group-joins-save-the-pearl-effort-to-oppose/article_7fe6fb58-28f6-5db6-902c-7092508fee88.html)



Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 18, 2019, 12:43:46 pm
Of the 49 properties the new West Pond claims to save from 1 in 200 to 1 in 300 year flood zone, 15 of those properties will be demolished. So that is actually 34 properties that will go from 1 in 200 year zone to 1 in 300 year zone for a cost of $25-$30 million dollars (and that is according to City of Tulsa's own flood map that neither FEMA nor the National Flood Insurance Program maps agree with; a map which has not been updated to consider the newer expanded west pond and expanded drain facilities).

It would be far cheaper to just repair those buildings in a flood event and far far cheaper to build flood mitigation devices to save the most valuable building affected, First National Bank, which has an empty first floor and car garage that might be affected in a worst case scenario.

None of these buildings have any history of flood damage and all have zero claims for flooding and are ineligible for flood insurance as the flood risk is insignificant, less than 300 year chance on any of them.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: DTowner on December 18, 2019, 04:51:34 pm
I think this detention pound is of dubious value, but hasn’t it been in the plan for nearly a decade (speaking of plan, what ever happened to that canal down 6th street?)?  Why did everyone wait to get concerned only after the city bought up many of the effected properties?


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: DowntownDan on December 19, 2019, 08:37:55 am
I remember reading about the pond at least a decade ago, why has it taken so long? It sounds like the biggest pushback was from people who bought houses and invested some money into fixing them up only to be told they were being condemned. I assume they didn't know about the plan. But in general, it seems to me that if eminent domain is involved, you should move quickly. If you tell homeowners that they are going to be condemned and it doesn't happen for 10+ years, what are they supposed to do?They can't move until they get compensated for the structure, they can't sell it if everyone knows its going to be demolished. That type of limbo is hugely unfair. I thought it was a good plan, but you can't sit on something that involves eminent domain for a decade and expect no pushback.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 19, 2019, 09:21:48 am
I remember reading about the pond at least a decade ago, why has it taken so long? It sounds like the biggest pushback was from people who bought houses and invested some money into fixing them up only to be told they were being condemned. I assume they didn't know about the plan. But in general, it seems to me that if eminent domain is involved, you should move quickly. If you tell homeowners that they are going to be condemned and it doesn't happen for 10+ years, what are they supposed to do?They can't move until they get compensated for the structure, they can't sell it if everyone knows its going to be demolished. That type of limbo is hugely unfair. I thought it was a good plan, but you can't sit on something that involves eminent domain for a decade and expect no pushback.

The plans go back to the 90s, and as you stated that huge delay is a big part of the problem. It is like "de facto" condemnation of the neighborhood. It has been going on so long, the new home buyers had no idea that it was still going on and especially that it was even a likelihood in the foreseeable future.

The biggest legal issue is that the flood benefits from this are dubious and that the city's literature on this project have repeatedly called it an "economic development" project since its inception (which is an unconstitutional reason for eminent domain per the Oklahoma constitution). For years they said they planned to sell the water front lots to big developers to pay for the project. The judge presiding over the imminent domain case is none other than former mayor LaFortune whose administration came up with this plan. Now his nephew is the mayor and he has been completely silent on this whole matter and has ducked out of every counsel meeting or public meeting where it is brought up.

The city and engineers on this project have done some major back peddling in recent months, but the writing seems on the wall for them: long costly legal battle or simple vote to end this plan.

Even if they "win" the eminent domain legal challenge, virtually all remaining home owners will fight against this and make it very difficult for the city. And if it ever ends up being economic in nature (e.g. like the "Central Park Townhomes" at the original pond across the street), that will be grounds for a class-action law suit. So the city can lie all they want and claim it is all about flooding (even though there's a dozen options far cheaper than paying $25-$30 MILLION to benefit just 34 low-value properties), but if their actions ever go against that, and they will if they proceed with the plan, they'll be opening the city to a massive liability.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 19, 2019, 09:49:44 am
And if anyone has the question: What other options does the city have for flood mitigation? The first and most obvious answer is "expand the existing pond":

https://www.google.com/maps/search/pearl+tulsa/@36.1512399,-95.9779196,418m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/search/pearl+tulsa/@36.1512399,-95.9779196,418m/data=!3m1!1e3)

This option was considered but at the cost of several million at the time, it was considered "too expensive" and not beneficial enough when compared to a new pond with many new waterfront properties. When you must legally exclude the benefits of the waterfront properties, and consider the $25-$30 million plus the societal cost of destroying existing structures and kicking families out of their homes with no alternative equivalent housing, the price of expanding the existing pond are far cheaper.

Notice how much flat land there is at the existing pond. If it is redesigned to be like the proposed north pond design, with drastic drop-off around the edge and railing, it would massively increase the available water storage area. The city owns along Highway 75 from 6th to 8th and from Hwy 75 to Peoria. Currently, including the embankments going up to street elevation, the pond only takes up less than half of the total area the city owns. A redesigned pond with sheer edges could potentially double capacity.

The pond is about ready for a facelift anyways as it has been around over a decade and has not been maintained well. The paths are full of debris and the waterfall looks a bit dilapidated due to lack of maintenance. The current design was great for making the paths a nice walk, but the reality of it is that it's created perfect alcoves for homeless to sleep out of sight all along the bottom level and it is usually full of them. A new pond would just double the shore line of available areas. A bigger pond with drastic embankments would reduce those types of areas and would not require doubling of the shore line.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 19, 2019, 10:13:04 am
This image shows the bounds of city property between 6th and 8th and between Hwy 75 and Peoria:
(https://i.imgur.com/l5fSqEN.png)

The city actually owns more nearby land, but this shows the area the city can expand the existing pond to without changing other infrastructure outside the bounds of existing roads and paths. Currently the pond and embankment uses just 39.6% of the available land (excluding the Community Center and parking lot).

You could redesign the existing footprint and increase capacity and increase it much more if you utilize 60-80% of the available area. If flooding is the primary concern, and $25-$30 million is the budget, they need to look at redesigning this pond first which would likely save the tax payers millions.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 19, 2019, 10:46:01 am
Compare that to the proposed design for the north west pond and its drastic drop-offs, which allow sidewalks right up to the edge and drastically reduce the required area for the pond vs the current south pond design:
(http://www.batesline.com/archives/2019/09/25/elm_creek-west_pond-pearl_district-areial-graphic-2.jpg)

This compares the existing pond size vs the new pond:
(https://i.imgur.com/cDkxYI6.png)

The new pond is almost twice the footprint, but less water storage and less flooding mitigation. The hydrologists and engineers should mimic adding the same capacity to the existing pond and see how far they have to push the boundaries.

Then, if absolutely necessary, they could add a smaller detention pond where there are currently empty lots. They could use existing lots they own plus empty lots around there and they would have 80% of the area existing south pond:
(https://i.imgur.com/aMrdwEX.png)

Those 2 options are far better than spending $35-$30 million acquiring 45 properties using eminent domain, demolishing 15 structures and building a massive pond that will drastically diminish the available developable land area east of downtown (thus creating almost a "monopoly" of land for the city/developers there).


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TheArtist on December 19, 2019, 06:04:35 pm
For decades I had always wished I had the money to buy property around where the new pond was to go.  Could have built a nice little streetscape and had the city spend oodles of money to make the landscaping, sidewalks, lighting, and view nice for my development.  Glad I didn't at this point lol. 

Sad thing is how people who bought during this time right where this pond was supposed to eventually go, didn't seem to know about that potentiality. 

I would have been pissed if I had of bought property knowing about the development, and then had that hoped for investment scuttled because of people who were ignorant of what was going on.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 20, 2019, 12:27:08 am
For decades I had always wished I had the money to buy property around where the new pond was to go.  Could have built a nice little streetscape and had the city spend oodles of money to make the landscaping, sidewalks, lighting, and view nice for my development.  Glad I didn't at this point lol. 

Sad thing is how people who bought during this time right where this pond was supposed to eventually go, didn't seem to know about that potentiality. 

I would have been pissed if I had of bought property knowing about the development, and then had that hoped for investment scuttled because of people who were ignorant of what was going on.

That theoretical you are mentioning is not possible because the city plans to condemn and use emminent domain against anyone who won’t sell at their insultingly low offers. Anyone who bought land around there to “develop” after the pond is built has certainly not read the city’s plans. There is no way to buy up properties around the pond footprint because the city plans to buy all of them and the Indian clinic owns the others. After this the coty willl have a virtual monopoly on developable land east of downtown.

But glad that someone is thinking of the poor multi-million-dollar developers! Poor guys will be pissed if this unconstitutional development is stopped! We need more people thinking of the billionaires and politicians. No one considers how their bottom dollar will be affected by all of these greedy middle class homeowners trying to remain in their homes rather than take $50k which won’t even cover the down payment on another equivalent house.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 20, 2019, 11:21:38 am
That theoretical you are mentioning is not possible because the city plans to condemn and use emminent domain against anyone who won’t sell at their insultingly low offers. Anyone who bought land around there to “develop” after the pond is built has certainly not read the city’s plans. There is no way to buy up properties around the pond footprint because the city plans to buy all of them and the Indian clinic owns the others. After this the coty willl have a virtual monopoly on developable land east of downtown.

But glad that someone is thinking of the poor multi-million-dollar developers! Poor guys will be pissed if this unconstitutional development is stopped! We need more people thinking of the billionaires and politicians. No one considers how their bottom dollar will be affected by all of these greedy middle class homeowners trying to remain in their homes rather than take $50k which won’t even cover the down payment on another equivalent house.


Been thinking of the 680 or so, Billionaires for years in this country on the Federal level - it's about time for that to 'trickle down' to the State and local levels! 



Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TheArtist on December 21, 2019, 08:44:40 am
Speaking of Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor

What is everyones thoughts pertaining to the "Meadow Gold District" moniker?


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 22, 2019, 03:11:21 pm
Speaking of Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor

What is everyones thoughts pertaining to the "Meadow Gold District" moniker?


Blech!


But I haven't been a fan of several of the 'cutesy' names being slung around now anyway.  I bet it will go over well.



Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: SXSW on December 24, 2019, 02:54:20 pm
Speaking of Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor

What is everyones thoughts pertaining to the "Meadow Gold District" moniker?

I'm okay with it but would like to see the Meadow Gold sign building actually be a building.  It's strange having it just be a faux-building/pedestal.  I'm not sure how hard it would be to actually enclose it to create a retail space or visitor center, something..


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TheArtist on December 25, 2019, 12:48:50 pm
I don't think it's the best name. Was probably something that was quickly thrown out there and it works as a placeholder so to speak. But there are some issues with it and if we are going to really begin pushing and promoting the area might think it worth considering spiffing up the brand so to speak.


I have heard quite a number of people make fun of Tulsa's many "districts", its like every spot has to be named a district.

Then for instance our new business will be on the north side of the street which means it is officially in the Pearl District. And there is a row of shops next to us that have a big sign "Pearl District Shops"

And, its not really a "district" per say, not officially in any capacity that I know of and when I think of a "district" I think of an actual, multi-block area of town.  This doesn't fit that.

There are other monikers that can be used other than one that contains District in it, "Whittier Square" "Brookside" "Cherry Street" etc.   Simply "Meadow Gold" could work.


But I do like the notion of it having some "place" descriptor added to it.

Again there is not an area that could have the borders of a district especially as what they are including is partly in the Pearl District.  As I understand it, It's more the shops and businesses etc. along 11th street from Peoria to perhaps Utica.

Meadow Gold Street....   doesn't work,  Meadow Gold Road.... nope. 

But I did some brainstorming and thought, how about "Meadow Gold Lane"?

Meadow Gold Lane on Route 66

Shops of Meadow Gold Lane
Galleries on Meadow Gold Lane

etc.

Still be partly in the Pearl District and not conflict or seem odd.

Seems sweet and nice.  Doesn't use the overused "district" moniker.  Seems to be more appropriately descriptive of the area. You can visualize Meadow Gold Lane and see that on a map better than a Meadow Gold District (and not get the Pearl District people up in arms about trying to overlap into their area).

Just my thoughts anyway.  Will see what others think of the idea but thought I would run it by you all. 
 



Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: DowntownDan on December 26, 2019, 11:10:14 am
I consider that part of the 11th Street Corridor to be the Pearl District, regardless of which side of the street a business is on. I too am not a huge fan of new micro "districts" with folksy names that arise just for the heck of it. I think its better branding for the Pearl District to be broader since it's a few square miles and has some consistencies (old buildings, distinct from Cherry Street, etc). A "micro" district, in my opinion, should apply only for very specific things, like a "brewery district" designation for 6th and Utica since they are concentrated there, and "Studio Row" for the small area around the Church Studio.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TheArtist on December 26, 2019, 11:40:42 am
I consider that part of the 11th Street Corridor to be the Pearl District, regardless of which side of the street a business is on. I too am not a huge fan of new micro "districts" with folksy names that arise just for the heck of it. I think its better branding for the Pearl District to be broader since it's a few square miles and has some consistencies (old buildings, distinct from Cherry Street, etc). A "micro" district, in my opinion, should apply only for very specific things, like a "brewery district" designation for 6th and Utica since they are concentrated there, and "Studio Row" for the small area around the Church Studio.

I agree.  When someone says "Pearl District" I instantly visualize the strip of shops along 6th street near Peoria, and then secondarily acknowledge that it includes those things near that intersection.  I am sure as the area redevelops, infills and if its able to create a unique and somewhat unified feel/look, that visual will only expand and solidify.  

I do find for my purposes marketing wise that it would be helpful to have a readily identifiable, visible something to point to the specific strip where we will be located.  If you mention Meadow Gold sign people immediately know where that is.  

Route 66 tourism is also a big part of the market we are working to tap.  Those tourists (and the tour guides who set where the busses stop, and they will only make a few stops in our area) are a big part of our customer base.  So I really want to make our few blocks one of those "must stop here" places.

Saying, visit the Pearl District isn't as sellable and precise to me as saying something like See Buck Atoms, DECOPOLIS, The TulsaRama and Tulsa Art Deco Museum, the historic Meadow Gold sign and more!  "Meadow Gold Lane on Tulsa's Route 66"!  Or "Meadow Gold Lane in the Pearl District.   But you can't really say visit the Meadow Gold District in the Pearl District.



Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on January 21, 2020, 11:08:53 am
I agree.  When someone says "Pearl District" I instantly visualize the strip of shops along 6th street near Peoria, and then secondarily acknowledge that it includes those things near that intersection.  I am sure as the area redevelops, infills and if its able to create a unique and somewhat unified feel/look, that visual will only expand and solidify.  

I do find for my purposes marketing wise that it would be helpful to have a readily identifiable, visible something to point to the specific strip where we will be located.  If you mention Meadow Gold sign people immediately know where that is.  

Route 66 tourism is also a big part of the market we are working to tap.  Those tourists (and the tour guides who set where the busses stop, and they will only make a few stops in our area) are a big part of our customer base.  So I really want to make our few blocks one of those "must stop here" places.

Saying, visit the Pearl District isn't as sellable and precise to me as saying something like See Buck Atoms, DECOPOLIS, The TulsaRama and Tulsa Art Deco Museum, the historic Meadow Gold sign and more!  "Meadow Gold Lane on Tulsa's Route 66"!  Or "Meadow Gold Lane in the Pearl District.   But you can't really say visit the Meadow Gold District in the Pearl District.



Looks like it's officially announced now. Sounds really neat!


Quote
Decopolis expanding to Route 66 location

Decopolis, the downtown emporium dedicated to Tulsa’s art deco history, will open a new location along Tulsa’s Route 66 in mid-2020.


William Franklin, who founded Decopolis eight years ago, said the new location at 1401 E. 11th St. is scheduled to open some time in mid-2020. It will house two venues, Decopolis Curiosities and Wonders, and the Tulsarama.

“We will be keeping the downtown location open as well,” Franklin said. “We’ve had a long-range plan that included additional locations. With all the buzz and activity happening around Route 66, we decided that would be the perfect place to expand.


“A good portion of the people who come to our downtown store are tourists who are wanting to see and learn more about art deco in Tulsa,” he said. “Our new location is just across the street from Buck Atom’s Cosmic Curios, and a block or two from the big Meadow Gold sign. We think all these attractions will make this part of town a real tourist destination.”

The Meadow Gold sign has been a landmark along Tulsa’s section of Route 66 for decades, and earlier this year Buck Atom’s owner Mary Beth Babcock installed the 21-foot-tall embodiment of her shop’s name — a “space cowboy” cradling a small rocket in his hands — as a roadside attraction.

Franklin said the new venue will take the basic ideas of the existing Decopolis and “take them up a notch.”

“I’ve created themed environments for years, and we’re planning to have that be a part of the new location,” said Franklin, an artist whose most visible works are the recreations of Mayfest posters that he would paint on the exterior wall of the Hyatt Regency hotel downtown. “Everything will have a very different look and feel.”


According to the Decopolis website, the new Decopolis will contain the “Discovitorium,” that will allow visitors “to explore realms where Science and Magic meet,” while the “TulsaRama” will have an art deco-inspired town square and will offer a wide range of Tulsa and art deco-related merchandise.

In addition to its downtown location at 502 S. Boston Ave., Decopolis also has a “Tulsa Art Deco Museum” display in the Philcade building downtown, 501 S. Boston Ave., and the “Mesmer Island” outpost in the Mother Road Market, 1124 S. Lewis Ave.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/decopolis-expanding-to-route-location/article_1d5fd719-2d7b-57d7-b670-1244a026b3e5.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/decopolis-expanding-to-route-location/article_1d5fd719-2d7b-57d7-b670-1244a026b3e5.html)


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: Tulsan on January 21, 2020, 12:55:59 pm
For the old shop at 11th and Peoria owned by City of Tulsa, there was an RFP issued for the site:

https://www.cityoftulsa.org/media/11761/rfp-1303-e-11th.pdf



Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on January 21, 2020, 01:34:58 pm
For the old shop at 11th and Peoria owned by City of Tulsa, there was an RFP issued for the site:

https://www.cityoftulsa.org/media/11761/rfp-1303-e-11th.pdf



If they keep structure close to as-is as possible, would make perfect pop-up shop court. The garages can each have a different store. Would be neat to have a small food place in one kiosk with covered seating area there. The parking lot could use a big make over.

That's a potentially great corner with all of this new stuff going and proximity/view of downtown.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TheArtist on January 21, 2020, 09:51:22 pm
More on our new projects here!


https://decopolis.net/pages/decopolis-66-tulsarama


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: DowntownDan on January 22, 2020, 08:29:13 am
Very cool! I saw work going on in this building and was curious what was going in.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on January 22, 2020, 11:40:06 am
More on our new projects here!


https://decopolis.net/pages/decopolis-66-tulsarama

Wow! That looks like you're packing a lot into that building and making it a very efficient use of space. I'm excited to see it. That looks very imaginative and creative. That should be a big destination for kids and families wanting a unique Tulsa experience.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: DTowner on January 22, 2020, 02:42:25 pm
For the old shop at 11th and Peoria owned by City of Tulsa, there was an RFP issued for the site:

https://www.cityoftulsa.org/media/11761/rfp-1303-e-11th.pdf

Less than a year ago, this property was for sale by the private owner.  Why does the city now own it?  Did the city acquire the entire property as part of its installation of the Aero bus stop on the property?  Why is the city acquiring property like this when it only need the small strip along Peoria for the bus stop (which was probably within the city’s easement)?


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: Urban Enthusiast on January 22, 2020, 07:39:05 pm
Not sure exactly where to post this, but is anyone aware of what is going into the building on the southwest corner of 3rd and Utica (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1566209,-95.9673595,3a,75y,201.8h,85.63t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sD5ArY5GUo1hH-4K8KbT_pg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DD5ArY5GUo1hH-4K8KbT_pg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D279.76248%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)?  I drove by it yesterday evening and it appeared that the tan metal building was really spiffed up with brick and maybe columns.  I know the brick building has been in that state for awhile (that streetview is from 2018).  Or maybe the dusky light of the evening was playing tricks with my eyes. 


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: Tulsan on January 22, 2020, 08:31:53 pm
Not sure exactly where to post this, but is anyone aware of what is going into the building on the southwest corner of 3rd and Utica (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1566209,-95.9673595,3a,75y,201.8h,85.63t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sD5ArY5GUo1hH-4K8KbT_pg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DD5ArY5GUo1hH-4K8KbT_pg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D279.76248%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)?  I drove by it yesterday evening and it appeared that the tan metal building was really spiffed up with brick and maybe columns.  I know the brick building has been in that state for awhile (that streetview is from 2018).  Or maybe the dusky light of the evening was playing tricks with my eyes. 

It’s being renovated by an investor to be turned into 7 individual retail storefronts. Details here: https://tulsaok.tylertech.com/EnerGov4934/SelfService#/permit/f92a503f-34e0-4d75-aa31-85696b5dc4a6 (click “supporting docs” to see the site plan).

Pretty neat reuse of the structure!


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: Urban Enthusiast on January 23, 2020, 07:20:23 pm
It’s being renovated by an investor to be turned into 7 individual retail storefronts. Details here: https://tulsaok.tylertech.com/EnerGov4934/SelfService#/permit/f92a503f-34e0-4d75-aa31-85696b5dc4a6 (click “supporting docs” to see the site plan).

Pretty neat reuse of the structure!

Ah, thanks!  I drove by again this afternoon and had enough light to snag a couple of pictures.  They have made the once ugly tan metal building look awesome!

This used to be the tan metal building.  The details even match the existing brick building.
(https://nvoqmq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mHmNjom0J-LT8sJ8vrQAlDjzpYWutlJo4qjQU6k2AFARIVa-gbz5OzYqqlrR5m-cpJ904qReWbxQ0k8fUyrBu4ku9l1IaLpw7e_oRzIUgWr7YRgayRGsJs7F835MwNm_Daxuglmzcj4F1c4ib-pgvMdj_6ioI-K74zReZYyuwrd9r-7dyPV7pfaLUSsFoEDwDOZ5L0sYAXHd0572S-Q_3SA?width=1024&height=479&cropmode=none)

Here's the existing brick building on the corner.  I am glad they are saving it.
(https://lfpnyq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mZL6zkN4-WigFb6c_g233wNFlcW1p4AAuyX49JNdpEGtCVIBNC4qbEEoJb94lQx0dUHO5g4I-G05K5LqOh-Vw3JPdNEhbvAESu5RGdSSIxyvdDUulLTbD9lRBqZeYf2laqpMpnKAf7oDY_h34CG-4U8P_U_5kkKbE6kiGSUzKn2DSxotZM5fJ_mM_ykEpk6GrXPiA0aWJF38RqQnay0JJ2w?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: DTowner on January 24, 2020, 11:50:38 am
The “work” on this building has been going on for several years.  Obviously, little was happening most of the time.  Good to see the pace picking up and real progress being made.  3rd Street between downtown and Lewis has been quietly transforming over the past few years.  Still some empty/underutilized spaces, but there are fewer gaps all the time.  There is now a real connection of downtown to Kenndall-Whittier.



Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on January 24, 2020, 01:45:20 pm
The “work” on this building has been going on for several years.  Obviously, little was happening most of the time.  Good to see the pace picking up and real progress being made.  3rd Street between downtown and Lewis has been quietly transforming over the past few years.  Still some empty/underutilized spaces, but there are fewer gaps all the time.  There is now a real connection of downtown to Kenndall-Whittier.



True. Good timing though, pushing it forward now. 3 years ago, this area felt like it was so far from any improvements. Now it is just a few blocks from "Brewers Block" and the recently renovated strip-mall/building on Yorktown, Church Studio, the Swamp House and the mini old main street on Trenton, and all the large projects on Lewis close by. Then the newly paved street gives it a much better vibe. It feels like the area is starting to show signs of life.

The vicinity at 3rd and Utica is still very jarringly diladitated and will likely look like that for a long time (mostly because of the mod podge of ugly architecture, but also the bad infrastructure), but maybe this and the other nearby projects could help push some places to upgrade the exterior or sell for remodel.

Outside of road (which probably has plans to be repaired eventually), the big ugly shopping strips and metal/industrial buildings are the biggest issues there. The health department doesn't look great either. It is neat when a few buildings get renovated and it spurns a big of area pride and many more follow suit. Hoping that happens here!


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: DTowner on January 24, 2020, 02:42:25 pm
True. Good timing though, pushing it forward now. 3 years ago, this area felt like it was so far from any improvements. Now it is just a few blocks from "Brewers Block" and the recently renovated strip-mall/building on Yorktown, Church Studio, the Swamp House and the mini old main street on Trenton, and all the large projects on Lewis close by. Then the newly paved street gives it a much better vibe. It feels like the area is starting to show signs of life.

The vicinity at 3rd and Utica is still very jarringly diladitated and will likely look like that for a long time (mostly because of the mod podge of ugly architecture, but also the bad infrastructure), but maybe this and the other nearby projects could help push some places to upgrade the exterior or sell for remodel.

Outside of road (which probably has plans to be repaired eventually), the big ugly shopping strips and metal/industrial buildings are the biggest issues there. The health department doesn't look great either. It is neat when a few buildings get renovated and it spurns a big of area pride and many more follow suit. Hoping that happens here!

The area of Utica from I244 to 6th is a mess.  You are right, given the mish mash of buildings and businesses in this stretch, it is going to take a while for redevelopment to take hold.  I suspect the much more promising buildings/opportunities on 3rd, 6th and 11th will continue to suck up the redevelopment energy and money.  Until most of those spaces are filled up, I doubt anyone will seriously tackle Utica.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 27, 2020, 11:52:32 am
Ah, thanks!  I drove by again this afternoon and had enough light to snag a couple of pictures.  They have made the once ugly tan metal building look awesome!

This used to be the tan metal building.  The details even match the existing brick building.
(https://nvoqmq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mHmNjom0J-LT8sJ8vrQAlDjzpYWutlJo4qjQU6k2AFARIVa-gbz5OzYqqlrR5m-cpJ904qReWbxQ0k8fUyrBu4ku9l1IaLpw7e_oRzIUgWr7YRgayRGsJs7F835MwNm_Daxuglmzcj4F1c4ib-pgvMdj_6ioI-K74zReZYyuwrd9r-7dyPV7pfaLUSsFoEDwDOZ5L0sYAXHd0572S-Q_3SA?width=1024&height=479&cropmode=none)




Nicely done!


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on January 28, 2020, 02:01:02 pm
The area of Utica from I244 to 6th is a mess.  You are right, given the mish mash of buildings and businesses in this stretch, it is going to take a while for redevelopment to take hold.  I suspect the much more promising buildings/opportunities on 3rd, 6th and 11th will continue to suck up the redevelopment energy and money.  Until most of those spaces are filled up, I doubt anyone will seriously tackle Utica.


In the same way 15th and Lewis is lost to big corporate suburban-style sprawl development, Utica from I244 to 5th is lost to functional and necessary but ugly buildings. It's a unique stretch in that each building is decently maintained, but so much ugly "architecture" and an even worse mix. The newer style chains thrown in there somehow makes it all look even worse.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: SXSW on March 16, 2020, 07:22:31 pm
Mixed-use project planned for 10th & Peoria

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/0f/70f2b6d1-aa9a-5ec9-b879-4ff1c95c33b8/5e6c1d32c657d.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C625)

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/million-class-a-office-retail-project-slated-for-pearl-district/article_a595d922-9dad-55a9-8f8c-9005f22fc493.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/million-class-a-office-retail-project-slated-for-pearl-district/article_a595d922-9dad-55a9-8f8c-9005f22fc493.html)


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: Urban Enthusiast on March 16, 2020, 08:04:57 pm
^ Those are nice looking buildings.  Will be a nice addition to the Pearl District.  I imagine they will have great views of downtown. 


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: SXSW on March 19, 2020, 10:51:04 am
^ Those are nice looking buildings.  Will be a nice addition to the Pearl District.  I imagine they will have great views of downtown. 

Absolutely, here is a rendering:
(https://scontent.fapa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89968320_2813459422041098_822578505966419968_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=wKrzyG_AQIoAX9UJ5SJ&_nc_ht=scontent.fapa1-2.fna&oh=04a5b41030d93b05047f5da735a0617a&oe=5E991CDA)

It looks like they intend to tear down the 1 story building at 8th & Peoria and this development will have two buildings at the corner of 10th & Peoria and 8th & Peoria.  The first phase is the building at 10th & Peoria.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: Conan71 on March 19, 2020, 12:45:35 pm
Absolutely, here is a rendering:


It looks like they intend to tear down the 1 story building at 8th & Peoria and this development will have two buildings at the corner of 10th & Peoria and 8th & Peoria.  The first phase is the building at 10th & Peoria.

I've always thought it was a shame they cut off The Pearl from downtown with the IDL.  I've often wondered if its gentrification might have happened much sooner if it had still been connected.  At the time all that was on the drawing board, they were going to extend the IDL south to, I think, 31st street and bisect Maple Ridge.  I wonder if Maple Ridge would have fallen into disrepair with a freeway cutting through it.

Anyone else remember the original alignment that Betsy Horowitz led the charge against?


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: SXSW on March 19, 2020, 02:44:50 pm
I've always thought it was a shame they cut off The Pearl from downtown with the IDL.  I've often wondered if its gentrification might have happened much sooner if it had still been connected.  At the time all that was on the drawing board, they were going to extend the IDL south to, I think, 31st street and bisect Maple Ridge.  I wonder if Maple Ridge would have fallen into disrepair with a freeway cutting through it.

Anyone else remember the original alignment that Betsy Horowitz led the charge against?

I believe you're right it would've went straight down the Midland Valley ROW and connected to Riverside near 31st. 

The Pearl will continue to slowly develop since it's in a good position between downtown, Cherry Street (and the rest of midtown) and TU.  What hurts it is having the highway between it and downtown and a general lack of quality housing (most of the existing houses are in serious disrepair).  It also has the industrial areas along the RR tracks that limit development.  The areas along 11th will likely see more redevelopment, for example, than areas closer to 3rd & Utica.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: Conan71 on March 19, 2020, 04:29:35 pm
I believe you're right it would've went straight down the Midland Valley ROW and connected to Riverside near 31st. 

The Pearl will continue to slowly develop since it's in a good position between downtown, Cherry Street (and the rest of midtown) and TU.  What hurts it is having the highway between it and downtown and a general lack of quality housing (most of the existing houses are in serious disrepair).  It also has the industrial areas along the RR tracks that limit development.  The areas along 11th will likely see more redevelopment, for example, than areas closer to 3rd & Utica.

One can look at the K-W area to get a feel for how long it's going to take to ameliorate the crappy old house situation in The Pearl.  By my estimates, it's taken gentrification about 30 years to spread from Delaware to Lewis between roughly 3rd & 11th and there's still some run down houses and apartments in the area.


Title: Re: Forest Orchard / Pearl District Corridor
Post by: shavethewhales on March 22, 2020, 09:50:53 am
Awesome development. Hope it eventually happens considering the depression we are entering. Hard to get excited about the developments that once enamored me now that we are entering what could potentially years of economic hardship.