The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

If police officers in Broken Arrow can’t see you through your car's windows, don’t be surprised if you get a ticket.

Broken Arrow police will begin enforcing a new law about window tinting on November 1st. The fine is $200.

The City of Broken Arrow adopted ordinance 23-38 that mirrors state law regarding regulations in the use of window tinting in motor vehicles.

Shane Edmounds is the owner of Tiger Window Tinting in Broken Arrow. Lately, Edmounds says he’s been getting a lot more questions from potential customers.

“Some people are asking if their car is legal,” said Edmound's, “Or when they get their car tinted they want to know if the tint is legal.”

Edmound's told FOX23 that he has already had to adjust the window tint shade for a couple of clients to make the tint compliant with the city ordinance.

Both state law and Broken Arrow ordinance mandate vehicles cannot have less than 25% of light transmission on the side and rear windows, as well as no tinting below the upper portion of the windshield.

Broken Arrow Police Sergeant Ed Ferguson said that the need for enforcement of the ordinance stems from a safety issue.

“Some people choose to make their windows so dark that they literally have to roll their windows down at night in order to be able to see,” said Sergeant Ferguson.

Broken Arrow Police will be using recently purchased tint meters so that officers can measure the light transmission of window tinting.

Police will only take action on drivers whose vehicles are found to be beyond the lawful amount of window tinting on their vehicles.

“It’s not like we are going to be driving around looking for tinted window but if we see a possible violator we are going to stop them and check it out,” said Sergeant Ferguson.

To give drivers time to comply with the new ordinance Broken Arrow Police say they will not begin active enforcement of this law till November 1st. Drivers can face a fine of $200.00 for violations of this law.

BROKEN ARROW, Oklahoma - If you're behind the wheel of a car, Broken Arrow police want to be able to see your face. The City of Broken Arrow will begin enforcing window tint laws with newly purchased "tint meters."
A state law regulating the darkness of tinted auto windows has been in place for years, but the Broken Arrow Police Department has recently taken steps to start enforcing the law. That's because officers have seen an increasing number of violations, according to Sergeant Ed Ferguson, BAPD Traffic Specialist.

Police say the excessively dark window tinting isn't just a risk for officers making contact with a driver they can't see.

"The dark tinting found on some vehicles can result in reduced visibility for those drivers in their ability to see other traffic or objects, especially at night," Ferguson said in a news release.

"The intent of our enforcement is to target violators that have modified their vehicles beyond factory specifications and what is allowed by law with excessively dark tinting on their vehicles that creates a hazard to others."

Both state law and the Broken Arrow traffic ordinance mandate that vehicles can't have less than 25 percent of light transmission on the side and rear windows, as well as no tinting below the upper portion of the windshield.

Police won't be targeting late model vehicles that have factor-equipped privacy glass on the back side and rear windows, Ferguson said.

Enforcement of the ordinance will begin November 1, and violators can face a fine of $200.

When I was a teenager in BA, they didn't need these silly laws to pull us over.

They just would.  The officers would have us all get out of the car, sit us on the curb and then look through the cars including trunks.

I was never a dark tint guy but there were a few examples of fellow BA teens whose tints were "tested" by police scratching the tint with keys or knives.

The officers would also follow us at night with their brights on in order to get us to speed up.

Most of the time, we were released with a warning and advised to remember to always show police officers respect.

Ah, the good times.

When I was a teenager in BA, they didn't need these silly laws to pull us over.
They just would.  The officers would have us all get out of the car, sit us on the curb and then look through the cars including trunks.
I was never a dark tint guy but there were a few examples of fellow BA teens whose tints were "tested" by police scratching the tint with keys or knives.
The officers would also follow us at night with their brights on in order to get us to speed up.
Most of the time, we were released with a warning and advised to remember to always show police officers respect.

Too many kids can go park with those tinted windows and ya can't see what they are doing - just have to infer from the rocking of the car.

With the dozens of different laws in every state and municipality, plus the dozens of different interpretations or levels of competence by police, it seems like window tinting is just asking to get pulled over and harassed.

My SO's RAV4 came that way. The tint on the front windows is pretty light, but it's much darker on the back.

So I asked is he talking about a officer sitting next to a car at a stop light and the car next to him has dark tint, does that mean he can flip on his lights and pull him over. And he said yes.

or not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign).

Is there any particular reason you cannot come to a complete stop, even for a second or two, at a stop sign?

They're defacto yield signs, and could easily be replaced with such. 

No one comes to a complete stop at a stop sign, not even cops, unless there's cross traffic already in the intersection.  They're defacto yield signs, and could easily be replaced with such. 

I know it's a risky maneuver but I do actually come to a complete stop at stop signs.  Most rolling stops are not really unsafe but I have zero sympathy for someone who gets nabbed for an incomplete stop.

Seems that the question is “If when you are stopped and step out of the vehicle closing the door and stand with your back to the door does the officer have the authority to order you back into the vehicle”.  The officer has authority to make a visual search to see if there is anything that jeopardizes his welfare concealed in the car.  The covering of the windows in any form leaves on the table acreage’s of court decisions and case law.  The tint or covering restricts his ability to recognize passengers or drivers with outstanding warrants.     

As an exercise, come to a complete stop...on a bicycle.  Motorists routinely complain that bicyclists never stop for stop signs, yet when one does they'll complain because the cyclist can't accelerate away from the intersection fast enough.

Imho rear window tinting is none of their business.  I can put a piece of wood in instead of a window and be legal in the rwar... so who cares if it is dark tint?

Can't get to 64 in 200 feet in any car I have ever owned. 

That's too bad.  (I haven't actually figured the numbers but everyone should have had a fast car at least once in their life by the time they get as old you and I.)

I agree...it's past time.  But the prices they want for 1968 Vettes are just crazy.  I got to drive one of those for a while in high school and that is really about the only one I am interested in.

I want a Model S.  ;D (If only Obama would buy me one)

I agree...it's past time.  But the prices they want for 1968 Vettes are just crazy.  I got to drive one of those for a while in high school and that is really about the only one I am interested in.

Last tickets I got (1984) were bogus; one for rolling through a stop sign.  Which I didn't.  The guy was sitting on a running motorcycle cop bike and wasn't even looking at me when I stopped.  So he saw me through the vibrating rear view mirror.  Had a witness, went to court and won.

Second was a "canned" speeding ticket - 64 in a 40 - scanned at 200 feet east of a stop sign where he admitted I did stop.  Can't get to 64 in 200 feet in any car I have ever owned.  The city attorney knew about this particular cop and actually helped me with the defense, 'cause he knew what the guy was up to - quota achievement.  Won this one, too.

Sometimes offering to be a witness isnt received well if the offer is overheard.

I think some of the new hot cars are actually faster and probably better handling.  I ran the numbers.  Assuming constant acceleration (maybe possible with an electric or something like the BMW 3.0L twin turbocharged with nearly constant torque from about 1500 to 5000 RPM) it would be an 11 second car to 1/4 mile.  That's a bit faster than any of my cars but only by a few seconds.   Just enough to lose a pink slip.

And no, it isn't $100,000....it is $97,900!

The one I would buy if I were rich like guido would be the S Signature Performance.  85kwh batteries.  Love the red paint!!  Leather interior.  And no, it isn't $100,000....it is $97,900!

Sweet!

Tesla reports that out of the 2,200 roadsters sold, so far 5 have already suffered bricked batteries and the owners have been hit with the cost.  $40,000 to change the batteries.
http://theunderstatement.com/post/18030062041/its-a-brick-tesla-motors-devastating-design

A small price to pay to protect the environment.  (Roughly equivalent to 200,000 miles of $4/gal gas at 20 mpg)

Tesla reports that out of the 2,200 roadsters sold, so far 5 have already suffered bricked batteries and the owners have been hit with the cost.  $40,000 to change the batteries.

That's just about the same as running a gas engine without oil for a couple weeks.  You think ANY manufacturer is gonna warranty that??  Toyota and Honda did so much to raise the bar as far as user expectations, that now many if not most people have no concept of routine maintenance.  This is one of those things that must be paid attention to.  If you buy one of those without considering that, well, you deserve to be 'bricked'.  Like so many who buy a diesel and don't make themselves aware of the slightly different routine needed for that engine.
Read the manual!!  Perform routine, required maintenance!

Does a Panamera get 20mpg?

Besides, the point isn't that it saves the environment,

it's that electric cars are better in every way but quick refueling. When battery technology finally catches up, they'll be just plain better.

Telling that Gaspar would use something that has happened to 0.2% of owners of a different model car to try and spread FUD about a car none of us are actually going to buy because none of us can afford a GT supercar whether it runs on gas or batteries.

That's just about the same as running a gas engine without oil for a couple weeks. 

One way to develop that technology is to build cars that appeal to the 1%ers that can afford toys with limited range and maybe a $40,000 bill for not following directions.

So you would rather hide a potential problem in the superior car of the future rather than bring it out to the public to force the developers and manufacturers to fix it before you and I buy one?

Who said anything about hiding anything? I sure didn't.

Then there is no reason to condemn someone for pointing out a serious flaw, even if that flaw is presently a small percentage. 

He's got a history on the topic, as I recall. Perhaps I misremember.

If you choose to ignore the subject of a particular post and reply instead to the poster's history, that is your choice.  It's not a good choice in my opinion.

I didn't ignore the subject at all. I responded to it with some extra commentary.

Telling that Gaspar would use something that has happened to 0.2% of owners of a different model car to try and spread FUD about a car none of us are actually going to buy because none of us can afford a GT supercar whether it runs on gas or batteries.

The only thing I got out of was the condemnation of Gaspar.  The rest of your statement was like the follow-on paragraphs in a newspaper article, fluff.

I contacted my tint guy. And since he was the one that did the job on my sons car he is going to remove the dark 5% off of the four windows and tint with the law abiding 25% for 70 dollars. I think that is a great deal. He knows how to keep his customers. We are going to leave the back window dark. Let em try and check it with their new toy.

The 0.2% was the context missing in Gaspar's post.

The two layers delaminate and the regular hair dryer on the outside method just doesn't quite make it.  At all.

At least it won't fall off during an Oklahoma summer.  Try a heat shrink gun.  Be careful not to melt everything around though.  Might even shatter your window. 

That would fix the tint problem by requiring window replacement.   ;D

A Tesla is not a Fisker, it doesn't catch on fire, it just drains its battery to a point where it can't safely be recharged, if not plugged in for many months at a time. It's not like a hole in the gas tank at all, in the sense that it is not in any way a safety issue. Obviously, they should endeavor to make it less likely to happen and to make purchasers aware of the need to occasionally top off their car. That said, with the issue affecting only 0.2% of owners, it seems to be a problem with very limited real world impact.

How To Brick An Electric Car

A Tesla Roadster that is simply parked without being plugged in will eventually become a “brick”. The parasitic load from the car’s always-on subsystems continually drains the battery and if the battery’s charge is ever totally depleted, it is essentially destroyed. Complete discharge can happen even when the car is plugged in if it isn’t receiving sufficient current to charge, which can be caused by something as simple as using an extension cord. After battery death, the car is completely inoperable. At least in the case of the Tesla Roadster, it’s not even possible to enable tow mode, meaning the wheels will not turn and the vehicle cannot be pushed nor transported to a repair facility by traditional means.

The amount of time it takes an unplugged Tesla to die varies. Tesla’s Roadster Owners Manual [Full Zipped PDF] states that the battery should take approximately 11 weeks of inactivity to completely discharge [Page 5-2, Column 3: PDF]. However, that is from a full 100% charge. If the car has been driven first, say to be parked at an airport for a long trip, that time can be substantially reduced. If the car is driven to nearly its maximum range and then left unplugged, it could potentially “brick” in about one week.1 Many other scenarios are possible: for example, the car becomes unplugged by accident, or is unwittingly plugged into an extension cord that is defective or too long.

When a Tesla battery does reach total discharge, it cannot be recovered and must be entirely replaced. Unlike a normal car battery, the best-case replacement cost of the Tesla battery is currently at least $32,000, not including labor and taxes that can add thousands more to the cost.

I cannot imagine that you would sit by and say "oh well, it only happens to 0.2% of the cars" if you bought any new car you could afford and a few months later there was a failure that cost you personally 40% of the price of the car to fix even if it was your fault.

Then I'd go and recharge the battery pack high enough to make the electronics work again, because I'm cool that way.

However, we're still talking about a vehicle that isn't even the one we were originally talking about before Gassy kindly derailed us into this idiotic discussion. The Model S is claimed to give you 30 days from the time you drain the battery to zero or a year or so from 50% or greater charge.

Did you not read the part where that is not possible?  Dead is dead, not sleeping for this battery.

The car won't charge itself. That doesn't mean the cells in the battery are actually unable to hold a charge.

Here's a news article regarding the Model S: http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57384571-76/tesla-you-cant-brick-model-s-batteries/

Today, Tesla said the Model S has more protections than the Roadster and would approach full discharge after 12 months if left parked with a 50 percent charge. Also, a Model S can be recharged if driven to a zero battery state.
"Model S batteries also have the ability to protect themselves as they approach very low charge levels by going into a 'deep sleep' mode that lowers the loss even further. A Model S will not allow its battery to fall below about 5 percent charge.

I used the safety issues to show that sometimes even a 0.2% failure rate is unacceptable.  It's unfortunate  that you cannot extend that concept beyond a life and death situation.   In an era when an oil light in your gas engine car really does mean "not enough quantity of oil", I find the Tesla failure mode to be unacceptable.  I cannot imagine that you would sit by and say "oh well, it only happens to 0.2% of the cars" if you bought any new car you could afford and a few months later there was a failure that cost you personally 40% of the price of the car to fix even if it was your fault.

Several months discharge is the best case scenario.

It is the same thing - if you drain the oil pan, you destroy the engine.  If you drain the battery, you destroy the battery.

I drain the oil from my engines every few thousand miles and have yet to destroy an engine by doing it.  When the oil pan is empty, it readily accepts new oil and we go on for a few thousand more miles.  My Buick has an "oil level" light that lights up when the oil level is ..... low, but not so low it will immediately destroy the engine.

I think Nathan's analogy of old gas in the gas tank is more appropriate than your draining the oil analogy.

Just like the people who plug in the Tesla - to the proper charger, don't destroy the batteries.  When it is empty, it readily accepts new electrons, and will go for a few hundred more miles.  The Tesla has a 'charge level' light that lights up when the electron level is low.  Also, not so low as to immediately destroy the battery.

Amazingly, it still takes many days to weeks to kill the battery, and extreme neglect according to the manufacturers version of extreme neglect.  It is more like if you ran the engine without oil for that week or two.

By the end of the year, all 120 Broken Arrow police officers will have an AR-15 rifle and a duffle bag with enough ammunition and medical supplies to outlast the most well-equipped gunmen, Cpl. Leon Calhoun said.

Per the TW FB post Broken Arrow police will be equipped to enforce the tint law:
By the end of the year, all 120 Broken Arrow police officers will have an AR-15 rifle and a duffle bag with enough ammunition and medical supplies to outlast the most well-equipped gunmen, Cpl. Leon Calhoun said.
So there you go.  All safe now.

I disagree with your oil analogy.  You can repeat it as often as you like and I will still disagree.  Did you read that somewhere?  (Hint: I saw the same lame oil analogy in some responses to the issue at one of the links posted here.  Can't you come up with anything yourself?)

In the world of risk mitigation, depending on a human action to prevent an undesirable event is low on the list of acceptable alternatives.

Tesla has appeared to address the brick problem since the Roadster and I have said those actions are more reasonable.

You know that the many rituals evolved over the years for the care and feeding of an internal combustion engine are much more complicated than plugging in a battery charger, and can lead to any one of several paths of total destruction, rather than just a battery going dead.

Even the "vaunted" Cadillac Northstar - supposed to the be the ultimate GM engine - has a serious weak spot in its aluminum engine.  And you don't even have to abuse or ignore for that failure.  You can just drive it to 125,000 miles and watch it happen.  Head gaskets cost around $3500 to replace if you DON'T need new heads or block.  New air ride suspension on the DeVille costs about the same after just too few miles (well under 100,000).

Per the TW FB post Broken Arrow police will be equipped to enforce the tint law:
So there you go.  All safe now.

"It gives the officers a lot more comfort to have a weapon that is a lot more powerful and more versatile," he said. "We can utilize it in almost every instance that we do our job."

Assault rifles standard weapon for every situation?   What the hell is in Broken Arrows water?

"It gives the officers a lot more comfort to have a weapon that is a lot more powerful and more versatile," he said. "We can utilize it in almost every instance that we do our job."

Assault rifles standard weapon for every situation?   What the hell is in Broken Arrows water?

"It gives the officers a lot more comfort to have a weapon that is a lot more powerful and more versatile," he said. "We can utilize it in almost every instance that we do our job."

Assault rifles standard weapon for every situation?   What the hell is in Broken Arrows water?