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From what I know the tribe is a "sub tribe" of the Muscogee Creek tribe.  The land was originally allocated to a Muscogee Creek who is on the Dawes roll.  Since it has never left Native American ownership it doesn't have to go through the trust process that other land that left Native American ownership has to go through.

My thoughts?  The moment I heard "prefab" I thought "classy".

Good lord..even classier than I thought...

I'm no future seer but this will probably suck for all neighbors.

Yeah...well I didn't want the Rhema cult to move to BA - could have stayed on Sheridan, or another 75,000 people, changing the town so much from what it used to be.  So, all these "newby" complainers - anyone there since 1975 - should just sit down and shut up.  Or move back to Tulsa where they came from.


Whiners.

Oh, quit your whining ;)

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They're building this pretty close to my mother's house and I know a bunch of the people around there and they are all pretty livid.

Can the city not deny them the connection to city utilities even if the tribe would be paying for it? Or would this be classified as discrimination?

*Just to clarify I don't think casino's really cause all the crime and horrible things these people associate with them, I'm not really for or against this project*

"Occupy The Indians"?

My other half's boss is "Gay". He told her yesterday that he can't stand Broken Arrow because if they are trying to stop the Indian's building a Casino then they obveously would discriminate against Gay people.
I can just imagine what my face looked like when I went. Wait....What ?

I can just imagine what my face looked like when I went. Wait....What ?

My other half's boss is "Gay". He told her yesterday that he can't stand Broken Arrow because if they are trying to stop the Indian's building a Casino then they obveously would discriminate against Gay people.
I can just imagine what my face looked like when I went. Wait....What ?

So how's this thing going?  I've been out of the loop.

So have the residents of Broken Arrow, apparently.

I still submit the BA should have been practicing their indignation with all the cults moving into town way before the casino was even thought of.  There is another new one now - LifeChurchtTV.

BROKEN ARROW, Okla. - The city of Broken Arrow is expected to make a statement Tuesday in opposition of the proposed Red Clay Casino.

City officials are expected to continue efforts to have the tribal casino's gaming license denied.

The first city council meeting of 2012 is at 6:30 p.m. Tuesday at BA's City Hall.

Read more: http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/councilors-expected-to-oppose-broken-arrow-casino#ixzz1iPd3RJfi

Per a KJRH sorry:

Is the gaming license state issued?

I'm glad to see the suburbanites stand up and fight. Whether its because of the violation of their spiritual values or the likely decline of their real property values, they should let the tribe know they are in for a fight.

Its a bad deal for BA no matter how you look at it.

I'm glad to see the suburbanites stand up and fight. Whether its because of the violation of their spiritual values or the likely decline of their real property values, they should let the tribe know they are in for a fight.

Do you have any statistical evidence of decline of real property values? I would like to see them.

I see these little casinos in lots of places. They have them in Iowa and Minnesota and Arizona and Kansas. They have them in many little Oklahoma towns. Based on my non real estate background and just driving by these places, I wouldn't think that property values had gone down and would guess the opposite.

Then for heaven's sake go buy up some real estate over there before people start to realize a neighborhood bar er..casino is a boon to them. My experience cruising real estate listings is that they never tout "near the new casino!" as a selling feature.

I would merely point out the lovely sign in front of the casino on Riverside, the traffic jam along I-44 near Catoosa, and the lovely approach to the "pimple on the hill" casino off Apache as indicators of why people, who moved to get away from the city, might be somewhat concerned. Then I would check the crime rates in those areas before and after construction. Lastly, I would inquire to the city as to whether my tax dollars would be spent to widen and improve access to a facility that isn't on the tax rolls and what accommodations they have made for other city services like fire, police, water and sewage. Then I would note that it isn't that far from a huge soccer/baseball complex that is heavily used by families.

These operations suck disposable dollars out of a community and replace them with all the problems that usually accompany a drinking, gambling, entertainment facility. Really, BA has always been hesitant to even allow mixed drinks in restaurants, multiple story buildings, and other big city amenities. I feel for them.  

Now who's using satire?

Net effect for BA is not good. Owasso better look out. They probably own land out there too!

Really, BA has always been hesitant to even allow mixed drinks in restaurants, multiple story buildings, and other big city amenities. I feel for them.  

Then for heaven's sake go buy up some real estate over there before people start to realize a neighborhood bar er..casino is a boon to them. My experience cruising real estate listings is that they never tout "near the new casino!" as a selling feature.

I would merely point out the lovely sign in front of the casino on Riverside, the traffic jam along I-44 near Catoosa, and the lovely approach to the "pimple on the hill" casino off Apache as indicators of why people, who moved to get away from the city, might be somewhat concerned. Then I would check the crime rates in those areas before and after construction. Lastly, I would inquire to the city as to whether my tax dollars would be spent to widen and improve access to a facility that isn't on the tax rolls and what accommodations they have made for other city services like fire, police, water and sewage. Then I would note that it isn't that far from a huge soccer/baseball complex that is heavily used by families.

These operations suck disposable dollars out of a community and replace them with all the problems that usually accompany a drinking, gambling, entertainment facility. Really, BA has always been hesitant to even allow mixed drinks in restaurants, multiple story buildings, and other big city amenities. I feel for them.  

Casinos do so much to enrich the surrounding location.  I mean, come on, just look at what it has done for Catoosa.  All those businesses that used to run down 193rd were just a blight that needed to be removed.

But think of all the jobs the casino created...

At slave wages?

Depends on whether you consider minimum wage "slave wage" or not.

Dealers can clean up pretty good, so can cocktail waitresses.  Otherwise, pretty much more minimum wage work.  However, if it's created jobs for people who otherwise would be on the government dole, I really don't have a problem with it.  I choose not to gamble in casinos and I figure at some point they will hit a saturation level and good old supply and demand will dictate the survivors in the casino business.

Could anyone help but notice in the news paper article earlier that it appears the "operation" of the casino will be with an outfit out of Miami, Fla?

I didn't say I was in favor of the casino. I was just asking for confirmation of aquaman's assumption that property values would go down near the casino.

This is a plot of land made possible by the turnpike entrance. It is not walkable from any of the other nearby properties. It will probably generate interest in commercial development of other parts of that turnpike off-ramp. That clearly happened in the casino in Catoosa. That east Tulsa County place has the busiest QuikTrip I know and lots of chain restaurants.

I would bet the property values of any turnpike off-ramp would skyrocket if suddenly thousands of more cars a day were exiting there. But I don't have proof and just asked if he did.

I just hope it doesn't turn into a cross-walk clusterf*ck for cyclists and runners like there is now at the River Spirit in Riverside.  I'm seeing more and more heated confrontations between pedestrians and uneducated drivers who think it's perfectly fine to block a cross-walk while waiting for their light.

But think of all the jobs the casino created...

I didn't say I was in favor of the casino. I was just asking for confirmation of aquaman's assumption that property values would go down near the casino.

This is a plot of land made possible by the turnpike entrance. It is not walkable from any of the other nearby properties. It will probably generate interest in commercial development of other parts of that turnpike off-ramp. That clearly happened in the casino in Catoosa. That east Tulsa County place has the busiest QuikTrip I know and lots of chain restaurants.

I would bet the property values of any turnpike off-ramp would skyrocket if suddenly thousands of more cars a day were exiting there. But I don't have proof and just asked if he did.

Oh, you mean the jobs that are reserved for those of a specific bloodline, and only doled out to others as a last resort?

So, you've applied there before too?

Just think, they also didn't go with the best building contractors, just the ones who matched their heritage. The concrete work alone in front of the hotel at the Catoosa location tells the story.

And I believe the tribes are exempt from all EOE and Affirmative Action regs as well.

Oh, you mean the jobs that are reserved for those of a specific bloodline, and only doled out to others as a last resort?

Specifically Indians.  Yeah, those jobs.  On the very extremely rare times I have been in the east casino I have seen a lot of blondes, too.  But that is kind of a macabre joke that some in the family make about how many blue eyed blondes are carrying Cherokee cards.  (No, I don't have a card, but was only blonde as a very young kid - went to brown very early.  Then grey.)


Maybe they feel that a long history of genocide and extermination and decades of discrimination towards them justifies a little preferential treatment?

A little? In a word, no. What they feel is anger at past racism that they themselves practiced. As a descendant of whiskey loving Creeks (great grandmother 100%), Irish, Welsh and French my family suffered attempted genocide by the American Govt, discrimination by the English govt. and extermination by the Germans. Yet I hold no ill will nor expect any preferential treatment for their past sins. Past wrongs don't justify current wrongs.

It's human nature.  You feeling no ill will is not really a typical response, as can be seen by pretty much the actions of the entire human race, planetwide.


Interesting thing I found in late summer - went to the battlefield at the Little Big Horn.  Park ranger who gave the talk about the battle was Crow Indian.  Sioux were the main contingent fighting against the US Cavalry, while the Crow were guides and helped the Cavalry.  Sioux were trying to go north, crossing north through the Crow lands (traditional enemies).  This ranger gave a good talk, but you could tell he was very biased against the Sioux, even today, what...130 years after the fact? 

These histories go far to explain why the Irish hate the English, the Palestinians hate the Israelis, and the entire Mid-East hates the US.  It's all that has transpired before that biases the present.  You and I have little to do with the the current realities of the mid-east beyond the fact that we still 'support' the US efforts in the region - implicitly endorsing those past efforts.  So even though my ancestry is Cherokee and Irish, the typical Iranian fundamentalist is gonna hate me.  Just the way it is.

And the Cherokees here are gonna give the jobs to tribe members first.  Right, wrong, or indifferent - just the way it is.  (Remember how there were some local companies who fired people because they had Clinton bumper stickers on their cars back in the '90s?  Same thing.)

Racism may be human nature. Human nature is one thing. Codifying human nature is another. Surely you wouldn't be in favor of American Irish discriminating against someone of English heritage. I am proud of all of my ancestry but I enjoy the histories of the Welsh and Irish most. The fact that the Irish easily mixed with the American Indian is not too surprising to me. Truth is, most races have blended to the extent that it is ludicrous to see some guy with less Indian heritage than I have discriminating against me because my Great Grandmother didn't sign the white man's Indian rolls. We seem to be devolving if that is accepted as "payback".

They use this as a weapon and it is damaging to them in many ways. One of them is their dependence upon birthright mineral rights that are passed on to each generation giving them a welfare mentality. Doesn't work well for white trust fund babies either. Another is the spiritual degradation that gambling infects them with.

You know, I hadn't thought about how easy it would be to use DNA to show Indian heritage. I wonder if the tribes recognize that? Did that play any role in the outcome of the recent decision by the courts to recognize the children of Creek slaves as tribe members? Seems arbitrary to determine who is Indian by what papers were signed 150 years ago rather than real science.

Anyway, BA is screwed and Owasso is yet one more target rich environment.

The lists weren’t formed 150 years ago, it was 105. Genetics have nothing to do with the lists, you (or your relative) are either on the list or not. The lists are called the Dawes rolls and they were not completed by the tribes, it was forced on the tribes by the federal government in 1907. The Dawes rolls (and the related allotment of land) was a final push to destroy the five “civilized” tribes and grab the last of the land that had been given to them.

This tribal town may or may not get this casino done. It’s not as bad as it’s being made out to be but this certainly is a questionable deal. The Creek Nation is going to fight this pretty hard I would think.

Calling Owasso the next target for a casino from this tribal town is ridiculous, if for no other reason than it’s impossible because Owasso is in the Cherokee Nation, not the Creek Nation.

Racism may be human nature. Human nature is one thing. Codifying human nature is another. Surely you wouldn't be in favor of American Irish discriminating against someone of English heritage. I am proud of all of my ancestry but I enjoy the histories of the Welsh and Irish most. The fact that the Irish easily mixed with the American Indian is not too surprising to me. Truth is, most races have blended to the extent that it is ludicrous to see some guy with less Indian heritage than I have discriminating against me because my Great Grandmother didn't sign the white man's Indian rolls. We seem to be devolving if that is accepted as "payback".

They use this as a weapon and it is damaging to them in many ways. One of them is their dependence upon birthright mineral rights that are passed on to each generation giving them a welfare mentality. Doesn't work well for white trust fund babies either. Another is the spiritual degradation that gambling infects them with.

I believe you are referring to the "Cherokee Freedman" when you mention the Creek's acknowledging slave descendants. 

Carry on.

If a white person does it, it's called racism.

If a Native American does it, it's called sovereignty.

And if an African American does it, they claim it's their rights.

Racism may be human nature. Human nature is one thing. Codifying human nature is another. Surely you wouldn't be in favor of American Irish discriminating against someone of English heritage. I am proud of all of my ancestry but I enjoy the histories of the Welsh and Irish most. The fact that the Irish easily mixed with the American Indian is not too surprising to me. Truth is, most races have blended to the extent that it is ludicrous to see some guy with less Indian heritage than I have discriminating against me because my Great Grandmother didn't sign the white man's Indian rolls. We seem to be devolving if that is accepted as "payback".

They use this as a weapon and it is damaging to them in many ways. One of them is their dependence upon birthright mineral rights that are passed on to each generation giving them a welfare mentality. Doesn't work well for white trust fund babies either. Another is the spiritual degradation that gambling infects them with.

A weapon? Infects "them". You racist jackass.


Is it racist when you hire your son to work in your own business? How about when you hire someone from your college, or your frat? Do you ever “Buy American”? It’s not that different. The tribes are collective groups working to protect a culture and people from disappearing. Hiring their own first in their businesses and government is part of that. Natives are the poorest demographic group in this country, many natives to this day struggle badly to assimilate. Many don’t want to. A tribal citizen getting preference in jobs with their own tribe is an effort to preserve cultures that the United States largely destroyed.

One of my wife’s tribes, Yuchi, doesn’t even exist according to the federal government. This was a proud tribe that at one time had many thousands of people in towns spread across the south. The remaining people of the tribe work hard to keep their culture alive but it is very hard with little support. The feds say they are just part of the Muscogee Creek Nation, but they are a very different people from the Creeks with different traditions and dress. The language is what is called an “isolate”, meaning that it is not related to any other language in the world and is nothing at all like the Muscogee language. There are only seven fluent speakers left. Seven.

There’s a lot of crappy paternalistic and condescending attitudes on here about what happened, what is happening, to Natives in this country. You can’t tell me that the protests in Broken Arrow aren’t a lot about race. My daughter has had very hateful things said to her at Jenks about being Indian, my wife has been discriminated against at work. This isn’t some chapter in a book about the William the conqueror overrunning the Anglo-Saxons in 1066. My ancestors were there and it means nothing to me. But my daughter last year was proud to be the first Yuchi tribal princess and she is trying to learn the language. My kids spend every summer dancing and learning the traditions of their people. That’s real. This is happening to real people today, to my family. You can act like what the US did was well intentioned and just had to happen as part of the growth of the nation, but it wasn’t well intentioned and it’s still happening now. Your sadly pretty common attitude proves there is still a long way to go.

Swake,  I was never aware of discrimination toward my step brothers or step father related to their Indian heritage during the seven years we lived in the same house.  I never heard anyone make fun of them at school, and my step father got regular promotions in the Williams Companies until he left to form his own exploration company.  His Indian heritage gave him certain advantages in starting up that business.  He did relate growing up in Wetumka in the 1930's and 1940's that he would get the occasional "blanketass" or "redskin" epithet from white kids in town.  

I do believe there's somewhat of a backlash we are seeing now as blacks can use overtly racist language yet we are told that's appropriate because we kept them as slaves up until 150 some years ago.  Native Americans can employ openly discriminatory hiring practices because they were booted out of their ancestral lands 170 some years ago.  An employer can discriminate against a white, straight, male in a hiring decision in favor of someone else the government says is more "entitled" to a job due to their race, ethnicity, or gender.

I don't think it's racism you are seeing.  It's growing resentment that every single fragment of society seems to want special recognition these days instead of simply recognizing we are all part of the same human race to begin with.  

Tell me, did it help you to grow up upper middle class with a good education when you went to go and look for work? Exactly how is that kind of birthright ok but a Cherokee kid getting hired first to clean toilets at a casino owned by his own people evil?

What about cities that give preference to their own residents when hiring cops?

And by your same reasoning the job your wife works at isn't practicing racism, it's a matter of them hiring their own, and treating their own better.  

And this sounds callous, but if the culture of your wife's tribe is not important enough to more than a handful of those who come from it to attempt to preserve it, why should it be important to those who have no connection to it?  Why should you get to beat us over the head with it?

My wife does not and never has worked for any tribal entity and has never gotten a job because of her race. You are making assumptions. 

Beat you over the head with it? What in the hell are you talking about? You've never even heard of them before.

Swake,  I was never aware of discrimination toward my step brothers or step father related to their Indian heritage during the seven years we lived in the same house.  I never heard anyone make fun of them at school, and my step father got regular promotions in the Williams Companies until he left to form his own exploration company.  His Indian heritage gave him certain advantages in starting up that business.  He did relate growing up in Wetumka in the 1930's and 1940's that he would get the occasional "blanketass" or "redskin" epithet from white kids in town.  

A weapon? Infects "them". You racist jackass.


Is it racist when you hire your son to work in your own business? How about when you hire someone from your college, or your frat? Do you ever “Buy American”? It’s not that different. The tribes are collective groups working to protect a culture and people from disappearing. Hiring their own first in their businesses and government is part of that. Natives are the poorest demographic group in this country, many natives to this day struggle badly to assimilate. Many don’t want to. A tribal citizen getting preference in jobs with their own tribe is an effort to preserve cultures that the United States largely destroyed.

One of my wife’s tribes, Yuchi, doesn’t even exist according to the federal government. This was a proud tribe that at one time had many thousands of people in towns spread across the south. The remaining people of the tribe work hard to keep their culture alive but it is very hard with little support. The feds say they are just part of the Muscogee Creek Nation, but they are a very different people from the Creeks with different traditions and dress. The language is what is called an “isolate”, meaning that it is not related to any other language in the world and is nothing at all like the Muscogee language. There are only seven fluent speakers left. Seven.

There’s a lot of crappy paternalistic and condescending attitudes on here about what happened, what is happening, to Natives in this country. You can’t tell me that the protests in Broken Arrow aren’t a lot about race. My daughter has had very hateful things said to her at Jenks about being Indian, my wife has been discriminated against at work. This isn’t some chapter in a book about the William the conqueror overrunning the Anglo-Saxons in 1066. My ancestors were there and it means nothing to me. But my daughter last year was proud to be the first Yuchi tribal princess and she is trying to learn the language. My kids spend every summer dancing and learning the traditions of their people. That’s real. This is happening to real people today, to my family. You can act like what the US did was well intentioned and just had to happen as part of the growth of the nation, but it wasn’t well intentioned and it’s still happening now. Your sadly pretty common attitude proves there is still a long way to go.

And '50s and '60s, and even very early '70's right here in Tulsey-town.  Hale, Central (go figure), and Edison High Schools.
Now it seems like it is almost "cool" to be Indian - or at least part - things change.

Aqua, your post reminded me about superiority complexes amongst differing tribes.  I dated a Cherokee after my first marriage ended.  She and her sisters always looked down her nose at Creeks and considered them to be the dregs of the Five Civilized. They weren't the only Cherokees I've heard talk badly about Creeks.

I went to Central in the the late sixties. One of my best friends was Sammy Tigert, a full blood Indian and quarterback of the football team. Several other friends as well who played baseball and wrestled. One was JC who was Indian/Hispanic and president of the class one year. Fell in love with a Native American girl who went on to OSU, funny can't remember her name. Sue something. Suzie Supernaw was on the Yearbook staff and became tractor queen, she was well liked and respected. Oh, yeah, Cherry McIntosh was popular as well. We both served on the School Life staff. Her grandfather Dode McIntosh was the chief of their tribe.

You chose the wrong school and the wrong time to allege Native American racism. We were all a pretty tight crew and as multi-cultural as you could get before it was cool to be multicultural. We were the first school to be integrated. I was a  Baptist kid and took the only Jewish girl, the daughter of a Rabbi, to the Senior Prom. It wasn't that it was cool to like Indians, blacks, Jews, Hispanics, rich and poor, in fact those things were rarely any consideration at all.

Yeah...I met some of the people at Central and later married into one of the poor white/Indian families that went there (that's how my kids got their cards).  Didn't know Sammy.  Lots of undercurrents at that school at that time.  There were others at that school that were very much racist against Indians - like you said, multicultural.  That's why I said "go figure" - because there was such a diversity in the school.  (SmileKickers we called them.)

It was a big school. Around 3000 students at that time. I'm sure there were incidents that I never heard or experienced. I was once called a "honkie" by a group of black kids as I went down the stairs to class. I yelled back, "Yeah? So?" They laughed and I kept walking. I was in a college prep curriculum so we were somewhat insulated, but others found the Central experience to be a daily struggle.

Yeah, I was unaware of that. A few years later my little brother attended CHS and they had installed metal detectors and an ID system for students. Seems there were a lot of "outside agitators" who had scores to settle. Mostly kids from BTW and McClain. There was a lot of pressure by downtown businessmen to close the school.

Once parents got wind of potential trouble they started moving out of the district and that gave TPS a good reason to move the school.

I heard stories about metal detector archs at the new Central (and that they were broken ones from the airport put there for looks), but they didnt have them at the downtown one in the years before it closed.

KJRH is posting a substantiated rumor of a possible casino at 111th and Yale.  That'd be unfortunate for that area.  The smoke shop is ugly enough. 

Phil Lakin is said to be fighting it.

Southie elitist.

 ;D

The NW corner of 111th & Yale, including the smoke shop, isn't as big as the parking lot at the Osage Casino from looking at Google maps.

City Councilor Phil Lakin warned other councilors on Tuesday that the casino controversy erupting in Broken Arrow could very well occur in Tulsa.

"There are solid rumors" circulating in south Tulsa that another casino is planned on 8.2 acres near 111th Street and Yale Avenue where the South Yale Smoke Shop is located, he said.

The site is just four miles from the Broken Arrow site where the Kialegee Tribal Town has broken ground for casino construction, he said.

Lakin stressed the need for Tulsa to be proactive and not wait "until dirt has been turned" here.

The Tulsa site, 11010 S. Yale Ave., is owned by the Paul Chissoe, according to Tulsa County records.

Chissoe inherited the property, which is a Muscogee (Creek) allotment, and in 1990 he leased a portion of it for a smoke shop, a U.S. Department of Interior court document states.

Chissoe died in April. His sons could not be reached for comment.

Lakin said he hasn't talked to the land owner, but "I've been informed by legal experts that they (tribal members) can do whatever they want to do on that restricted land. ... Nobody has been able to tell me what can't be put on the land."

The councilor questioned whether every piece of property that has a smoke shop on it has the potential to become something else.

 Lakin said he will seek council approval Thursday on a resolution supporting Broken Arrow's opposition to the casino there.

Mayor Dewey Bartlett told the Tulsa World that it is "very appropriate" for Tulsa to unite with Broken Arrow.

"I think it is inappropriate that entities be allowed to skirt the laws of the community," he said. "Using misconceived notions of sovereignty and financial capability as the reason to do something is not right."

He said that if the casino is allowed in Broken Arrow, it would set a precedent "that is simply unacceptable, and we cannot allow it to happen."

Bartlett said the community needs to "rise up and show its displeasure."

"The federal government has the ability of stopping this dead in its tracks, and that is where the battle should be," he said.

Lakin told councilors that he has contacted federal, state and county officials to determine what could be done to stop the casino's construction.

He said a casino at the south Tulsa site would put enormous stress on security and infrastructure there.

Lakin noted that cities use zoning to protect areas from inappropriate construction for a reason.

"We don't allow strip clubs to be built next to schools and churches," he said. "Do we want other adult entertainment activities like casinos to be built too closely to our neighborhoods, right in the middle of our neighborhoods?

"So, whether or not a casino goes up there tomorrow or four weeks from now or four years from now, it still focuses light on the scenario what Broken Arrow is going through and something that we need to be very aware of, because it could happen," he said.

Broken Arrow officials are fighting the Kialegee Tribal Town, which has construction under way for the casino at the corner of Olive Avenue (129th East Avenue) and Florence Street (111th Street).

The Kialegee Tribal Town is a federally recognized tribe as well as part of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. It has 439 enrolled members and is based in Wetumka.

The Broken Arrow property is owned by two Muscogee (Creek) Nation tribal members, Marcella Giles and Wynema Capps, who inherited the Creek allotment from their father.

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=685&articleid=20120111_11_A1_CUTLIN817108

KJRH is posting a substantiated rumor of a possible casino at 111th and Yale.  That'd be unfortunate for that area.  The smoke shop is ugly enough. 

Phil Lakin is said to be fighting it.

I think the fear of criminal activity is unfounded but all the neon and crap is pretty incongruous with the area.  Yale between the Creek and 121st is already over-stressed.  I wonder if the Creeks would be willing to pay for five-laning from the Turnpike to 111th  121st St?

It's begining to sound like Tulsa is turning into Biff World.

You live closer to that area than I do so you probably know more, but I just cannot image the work that would be required just to address/resolve the traffic issues. It's all two lane roads over there.

It is unlikely that the Muscogee (Creek) Nation is interested in builidng a casino in south Tulsa that will compete directly with River Spirit.  Indeed, according to reports to slow economy and uncertainty of the BA situation have caused delays to the construction of the hotel at that site.  More likely, as in BA, one of 3 tribal towns with federal recognition (such as the Kialegee) or a landless tribe will try to lease land from an owner of an allotment or restricted Indian land.

Additionally, don't limit your imagination to a large casino like River Spirit or Hard Rock Tulsa, it could be something much smaller and compact, or even a convenience store with a small room of gaming machines.

Additionally, don't limit your imagination to a large casino like River Spirit or Hard Rock Tulsa, it could be something much smaller and compact, or even a convenience store with a small room of gaming machines.

I didn't read anywhere it was the Muscogee's who were rumored on this 111th & Yale scenario.  Did I miss something?

This is their allotment

The tribe's allotment or a citizen of the tribe?  If it's a citizen of the tribe, which is what I read, I believe they can lease the land to a tribal town if they wish.

Chissoe inherited the property, which is a Muscogee (Creek) allotment, and in 1990 he leased a portion of it for a smoke shop, a U.S. Department of Interior court document states.

Chissoe died in April. His sons could not be reached for comment.

The tribe's allotment or a citizen of the tribe?  If it's a citizen of the tribe, which is what I read, I believe they can lease the land to a tribal town if they wish.

Allotments are held by individual tribe members.

The allotments all fall within the area of historical Creek territorial jurisdiction (which I believe covers all of south Tulsa and probably most of BA).

The zoning won't matter because as soverign land of the tribe (by ownership or lease) it is not subject to state or local laws.  The contractor in BA found this out the hard way when he tried to call the BA police after a vandalism incident.

Law enforcement either falls to tribal police or the FBI, doesn't it?

You've watched 'Thunderheart' too much.

That should've been a better movie.

Ah, it wasn't bad.  I think Graham Greene was a little over the top, but other than that, it was aight....

I thought it was the Dept of the Interior, if they have a LE division.

You've watched 'Thunderheart' too much.

 ;D

Update: New Creek Chief George Tiger says Kialegee tribe never sought permission to build casino

TW tweet says:

I have no idea what the strory says as I've already gone over my limit with the TW.

Anyway, that's the tweet.  I'm sure that means they'll go ahead and remove all building material and return the land to the way they found it...

Oh, you mean toss a bunch of empty QT cups, some cigarette butts, and dogshit all around?

Yes, it's Broken Arrow.  They have an appearance to maintain.

Heh....!

Go Tigers

WASHINGTON – A Broken Arrow property has not been termed eligible for Indian gaming at this time, a top federal official assured Rep. John Sullivan and Sen. Tom Coburn...

Someone forgot to tell those guys on the earth movers.

Maybe that'$ not the only thing moving right now.

Sofar everyone in authority is saying everything EXCEPT that it wont happen.
Not Sullivan, not Tiger, not the Broken Arrow city haul.

It's like a cat playing with a wounded mouse.  Wonder how that will end.

"The Kialegee has attempted to set up land for gaming three times in Georgia and also in Texas, and have been unsuccessful."

How and why their casinos failed in other states might be interesting to know.

A lady came by my home on Saturday with a petition. I had no problem signing it and took it into the house for the little lady to sign and low and behold, she said there is no way she would sign it.....wait, what ?
Apparently I havent been paying attention to her stand on this matter.
She started telling me why, blah, blah, blah.....I really wasnt listening.  ;D

A lady came by my home on Saturday with a petition. I had no problem signing it and took it into the house for the little lady to sign and low and behold, she said there is no way she would sign it.....wait, what ?
Apparently I havent been paying attention to her stand on this matter.
She started telling me why, blah, blah, blah.....I really wasnt listening.  ;D

"The Kialegee has attempted to set up land for gaming three times in Georgia and also in Texas, and have been unsuccessful."

How and why their casinos failed in other states might be interesting to know.

Governor supports Kialegee lawsuit, wants changes to compact law | Tulsa World
www.tulsaworld.com

OKLAHOMA CITY - Gov. Mary Fallin said Wednesday that she supports of the state’s lawsuit that is attempting to stop construction of an Indian casino in Broken Arrow

Baloney. You can't bypass the constitution no matter how far right you are or how much you must pander to those BA creeps.


Property rights....ironically, they are what we stole from this Indian Nation in the first place.

You can't bypass the constitution no matter how far right you are or how much you must pander to those BA creeps.

The trailers that make up the buildings start arriving today.

The trailers that make up the buildings start arriving today.

Just put money on “it will be built then push the button.” The people who are protesting are not the ones who are putting their money down.  Some day a court will allow the owners of the original reservation of which BA is in the center of to exercise their right of access or fine BA multi million dollars as the judge did in the planned quarry v. Claremore.   2nd it is part of an allotment by blood passed on to the heirs.    

The Kialegees’s  have the same status and relationship with the Creek nation as Tulsa does with US..  BA is located within the Creek nation like Tulsa is in the US nation.  The allotments were given to the members of the Creek tribe as the Kialegees’s  were not recognized by the US therefore they did not exist but those who inherent the origin allotment are part  of the town.

This is completely false.

...
Specify please, what part of regimentation or their treaties they made are false.

"The Kialegee has attempted to set up land for gaming three times in Georgia and also in Texas, and have been unsuccessful."

How and why their casinos failed in other states might be interesting to know.

Per KOTV:

Tulsa federal judge Gregory Frizzell granted the state a preliminary injunction, halting construction of a casino in Broken Arrow

If I were to rule against those Indians, who were given the land by a tongue in cheek treaty in 1833 for “as long as the wind blows and waters flow”, even though the ruling could be found to be beyond the judicial obligations of a court on appeal, I would want two western type six shooters with holsters and leg ties that tilted the six shooters out at 20 degree angle as if for fast drawing to be used as a visional deterrent, because questionable persons have been known to follow the money track. 

The court did make the right and only one possible finding as the question will be decided  by the final decision of the highest court on which came first the chicken or the egg.

It is because our barter of exchange has our gods printed on them and those Indians possibility are collecting more of those pictures than the IRS and it seems we are a greedy nation, respecting no person (as brought out in North’s trial) lets amend the Open Carry to prohibit the carrying of concealed weapons by any one.  We can stop many of the self defense pled killings of our people before they start.         

(https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRjXhNn0pYlBLh4XZaljf5VmfIbVGtH4Brk0564hyro-AtA1t0ITw)

If I were to rule against those Indians, who were given the land by a tongue in cheek treaty in 1833 for “as long as the wind blows and waters flow”, even though the ruling could be found to be beyond the judicial obligations of a court on appeal, I would want two western type six shooters with holsters and leg ties that tilted the six shooters out at 20 degree angle as if for fast drawing to be used as a visional deterrent, because questionable persons have been known to follow the money track. 

The court did make the right and only one possible finding as the question will be decided  by the final decision of the highest court on which came first the chicken or the egg.

It is because our barter of exchange has our gods printed on them and those Indians possibility are collecting more of those pictures than the IRS and it seems we are a greedy nation, respecting no person (as brought out in North’s trial) lets amend the Open Carry to prohibit the carrying of concealed weapons by any one.  We can stop many of the self defense pled killings of our people before they start.         

Tulsa federal judge Gregory Frizzell granted the state a preliminary injunction, halting construction of a casino in Broken Arrow

So what might be a good use for a half-finished building on the outskirts of BA?

So what might be a good use for a half-finished building on the outskirts of BA?

So what might be a good use for a half-finished building on the outskirts of BA?

They are trailers.  They can be moved to another Native American owned site.  Or, converted into the county's largest smoke shop.   ;D

They are trailers.  They can be moved to another Native American owned site.  Or, converted into the county's largest smoke shop.   ;D

Look closer (http://media2.kjrh.com//photo/2012/05/16/BA_casino_case_to_play84023459-8ed9-4d94-8532-aa3633a357960000_20120516073511_320_240.JPG)

They are trailers.  They can be moved to another Native American owned site.  Or, converted into the county's largest smoke shop.   ;D

As I'm betting this project represents the bulk of the Kialegee's piggy bank, this may have to become housing. Maybe start a call center business? "Dialegee?"

The National Indian Gaming Commission has determined that the site of a proposed casino in Broken Arrow does not belong to the Kialegee Tribal Town and is not eligible for gambling, U.S. Rep. John Sullivan announced Friday afternoon. Check comments for a link to this article!

So what might be a good use for a half-finished building on the outskirts of BA?

I doubt the Kialegee has any money in this project.  Typically, the backing group puts up all the money or obtains financing in exchange for a percentage of the gaming revenue for a period of years.

And the two ladies that own the land have given up their Muscogee Creek membership and have joined the Kialegee Tribe. They are going to get their money.

Given the historical connection between Muscogee (Creek) Nation and the tribal towns, most tribal town members are also Creek citizens.  Therefore, I doubt the sisters are giving up their Creek citizenship to be adopted by the Kialegee tribal town and will have dual citizenship.  Not sure it this will help their case because the restricted status of the land was a Creek.

The sports bar sounds like a way to get the injunction lifted so they can continue construction at the site.  If the court and NIGC's decisions are later overturned, they can easily convert the sports bar into a casino.

As for the BA mayor, he may have done goods things for BA, but it appears he clearly misrepresented what he knew and when he knew it to the citizens of BA.  

It was reported they have given citizenship up. I think the legal argument is going to be that the land is reserved in the name of the land owner and not the tribe therefore whichever tribe the reserved land owner owner belongs to, the land is reserved under the jurisdiction of that tribe.

I doubt if that is going to fly in court or the BIA, but we will have to see. I would expect the Creeks to fight this pretty hard along with the city and state.

The easy answer is no way. Think of it like this. Someone has a Creek mother and an Osage father. You can't be enrolled in two tribes so the person is enrolled in the Osage tribe. The Osage tribe can't open a casino in the Creek nation in Broken Arrow on reserved land that the person has inherited from his Creek mother.

The rub is going to be the special relationship between the tribal towns and the Creek Nation, and defining what the Kialegee tribal area is, if any. If it matches the entirety of the Creek Nation, then The Kialegees may have an argument but the Creek Nation is going to have to fight that pretty hard in fear of the three independent tribal towns opening up competing casinos all over the Creek Nation.

Edit, I stand corrected. I just read that they are still enrolled in the Creek Nation. That makes little sense to me, but we will see.

So what might be a good use for a half-finished building on the outskirts of BA?

1. Night club where they sell mixed drinks.  On 20 acres one can offset it where it does not conflict with a future school.

2.  Retail tobacco store selling the native product introduced to the American public by the Indians.
 

native product?  I think you have been smoking too much of the native product.

Try Google on “tobacco” or a text book on the Mayan Empire or any source on one of the popular Native American contributions. 

Why don't you post a link supporting your side of the conversation?

Sweet whatthehellareyoudoing.

I think you have been smoking too much of the native product.

I didn't think that was native to the Americas.

quoted: States of America and, for right or wrong, Raleigh will always be associated with the introduction of the potato and tobacco into England.

So the Irish potato famine was America's fault.  Why did all those immigrants come to the place that was the cause of their problems?

So the Irish potato famine was America's fault.  Why did all those immigrants come to the place that was the cause of their problems?

How could anyone here not know the origin of the potato and tobacco??  Public school graduates???

I didn't think that was native to the Americas.

I knew where potatoes and tobacco originated.  I can't speak to Oklahoma public schools.  I went to public school in PA.

Tomatoes come from plants purchased at Carmichaels.

what family are the tomato and potato from -

You forgot hot peppers and eggplant.

Didn't forget...just hadn't got there yet - going slow to maximize the fun.

Not fast.  Not slow.  Just half fast.
 
 ;D

The silent factor on the proposed casino in BA has been awakened. It is quoted they have accumulated up to 800 signatures on a petition to let the building of it to proceed.   Those interested in the growth of the city and the lure of bring new money into the growing city overshadowing the negatives Native Americans have endured for near two centuries in their promised land “as long as the winds blow and the waters flow“. 

Besides your post, quoted where?  How many signatures will make a difference?

Tulsa World.  I've seen the article.  He speaks the truth this time.  I'll dig it up for you in a moment.

I believed it.  I like supporting links.

How many signatures do they need to get something else to happen?

Here you go.

Shadows, I'll send you a bill.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20120610_78_A17_CUTLIN579192

Hasnt being a pawn of organized crime also been perceived as a "negative" in the past?

Hasnt being a pawn of organized crime also been perceived as a "negative" in the past?

No one else made a guess, so I guess you win the 10 points!  Congratulations!!!


For another 10 - anyone...what family are the tomato and potato from - the common name, not Solanaceae?  Too big a clue?
And why wouldn't you want to eat the namesake plant?

The casino is a fireworks stand now.
Bet their insurance people are nervous.

Why should Broken Arrow gamblers have to drive over ten miles to play some slot machines?

Why should Broken Arrow gamblers have to drive over ten miles to play some slot machines? If east Tulsa, west Tulsa, southwest Tulsa, northwest Tulsa County all have casinos, why not southeast Tulsa County?

I never gamble at any of these, but am not convinced they are all bad. Catoosa has seen quite a bit of growth and development from theirs. This location was tucked up against a toll road and would probably never be developed until this. The casinos and related restaurants and hotels make quite a few jobs.

BROKEN ARROW, Okla. (AP) — Tribal council members with the Muscogee (Creek) Nation have voted against taking over a controversial Broken Arrow casino initially set up by the Kialegee Tribal Town.

Council members voted 7-2 against the proposal Tuesday night. Officials say that the Muscogee (Creek) Nation would have received 70 percent of profits from the Red Clay Casino had the council agreed to the proposal.

Developers had hoped to finish work on the Red Clay Casino and sell it to the Muscogee (Creek) Nation.

A federal judge stopped work earlier this year at the casino site, finding that Kialegee Tribal Town did not have jurisdiction to build the casino on the land in Broken Arrow. Kialegee officials have said the casino could bring in $25 million annually.

Why should Broken Arrow gamblers have to drive over ten miles to play some slot machines? If east Tulsa, west Tulsa, southwest Tulsa, northwest Tulsa County all have casinos, why not southeast Tulsa County?

I never gamble at any of these, but am not convinced they are all bad. Catoosa has seen quite a bit of growth and development from theirs. This location was tucked up against a toll road and would probably never be developed until this. The casinos and related restaurants and hotels make quite a few jobs.

But it is a slick way for the Indians to get back at the whites for 400 years of discrimination, abuse, and genocide....

What, you're saying it doesn't make me look better when I go win 5,000 at the blackjack table? (or more likely lose around 2,000) :D
...
DOP. ;)

DOP. ;)

Dirty Old Pervert?

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/DOP

What, you're saying it doesn't make me look better when I go win 5,000 at the blackjack table? (or more likely lose around 2,000) :D

Another dead body at the Hard Rock Casino

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Body-found-on-golf-course-in-Catoosa/X64BIyp69UiRvr9E8U0Q2Q.cspx

Maybe he was trying to be Ty Webb, and was out night putting.

Maybe he was trying to be Ty Webb, and was out night putting.

Nee nee nee nee nee nee...

That doesn't work without explosives.
 
 ;D

The 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled 3-0 against the State of Oklahoma

Creek Nation chief signed secret contract with developer for BA Kialegee casino

Related story: Broken Arrow casino developer says project will resume at undisclosed Tulsa County location

Related story: River Spirit phase II expansion will create a destination resort.

Two months after being elected to his tribe’s council in 2009, Muscogee (Creek) Nation Chief George Tiger signed a lucrative consulting contract with the developer of a proposed Broken Arrow casino promising Tiger a share of gaming revenue on the project, which would compete with his own tribe’s casino, a Tulsa World investigation has found.

In the years following that secret deal, Tiger worked behind the scenes with developer Shane Rolls and the Kialegee Tribal Town to gain approval for the Kialegee casino. Meanwhile, then-Creek Nation Chief A.D. Ellis and other tribal officials fought to stop what they viewed as an assault on Creek Nation sovereignty.
Tiger said his actions were legal and not a conflict of interest because they occurred before he was sworn into office as a tribal councilor in January 2010.
“I’ve been involved with tribal government since I was 24 years old, so I know right from wrong when it comes to conduct of an elected official,” said Tiger, 64.
The Kialegee Tribal Town, based in Wetumka, was part of the original Creek Nation confederacy along with several other tribal settlements in Oklahoma. Today, the Kialegee are members of a separate, federally recognized tribe with its own government and about 400 members.

The World recently obtained a copy of Tiger’s signed contract, copies of checks Rolls wrote to Tiger and a draft of a lawsuit Rolls threatened to file against Tiger related to the controversial casino deal. The records show Rolls agreed to give Tiger 5 percent of his company’s ownership in the casino, $5,000 per month once it opened and up to $200,000 in bonus payments.

After the World contacted Rolls about the consulting contract in late February, his attorney, Joe Farris, arranged an interview and said Tiger would also attend.

Rolls had prepared a lawsuit against Tiger alleging he accepted more than $30,000 but failed to abide by their contract. However Rolls, of Tulsa, is now on good terms with the chief and won’t file the lawsuit, Farris said.

Tiger and Rolls confirmed that the contract, checks and draft lawsuit obtained by the World were authentic documents. Both said they had done nothing wrong and the documents represent a failed business deal.

Records show nearly all of Rolls’ $31,500 in payments to Tiger came after he was an elected official, as defined by the Creek Nation’s law and constitution.
After Tiger was elected chief in 2011, records show he continued to accept money from Rolls and attended several meetings on the casino project.
His about-face happened after he was sworn in as chief and opposition grew. At the time, the project appeared to be a lost cause and Tiger calculated it was not worth the political cost, Farris said.

However the contract raises questions about where the chief stands now and whether he will support a new plan — detailed in a Tulsa World story Saturday — by the Kialgee Tribal Town to build a casino in the Tulsa area.

Because the Kialegee tribe has no land in the Tulsa area, the new casino would almost certainly be built on Creek land, requiring support from Tiger and a majority of the tribe’s council for a “nation to nation” deal.

But the Creek Nation’s River Spirit Casino is undergoing a massive $329 million expansion, adding a Margaritaville-themed casino, restaurant and 27-story hotel.
And the lender’s terms for that project won’t allow the Creeks to open a competing casino in the surrounding area.
Additionally, some tribal leaders say Tiger’s contract with Rolls is evidence he has acted against his tribe’s interests. The Kialegee casino would have siphoned up to $40 million away each year from the River Spirit Casino, Ellis said.

“It was going to hurt our casino a lot,” said Ellis, the Creek Nation’s chief from 2007-2011.
Chief opened door for developer

In the middle of the tribal politics is Rolls, who lives in Tulsa and has completed commercial developments in Florida. He formed Golden Canyon Partners LLC shortly after signing the contract with Tiger.

Rolls said he hired Tiger to help gain approval by landowners and elected officials in both tribes for the Kialegee casino.

“You hire a consultant who knows the way and can open the door. … The way I know to get into Indian country is hire an Indian.”

But Rolls said he insisted the agreement be in writing and “above board.”

“He (Tiger) and I were very careful, and I always said, ‘I’m not doing anything illegal.’ That’s why you’ve got agreements; that’s why you’ve got canceled checks and everything. … I could have just given him cash.”

The contract contains a clause requiring the agreement and payments to Tiger be kept confidential, even after the contract expires. Tiger said he never disclosed the contract to his tribe, despite his veto of tribal legislation opposing the casino.

Although the deal to open the Red Clay Casino in Broken Arrow stalled in 2012, records show Rolls had already paid him more than $20,000 by that time.

Tiger said he didn’t need to publicly disclose the contract because he signed it before being sworn into office as a tribal councilor in 2010. Once he became a tribal councilor, he said, he did not continue as a consultant for Rolls, though he did take part in meetings about the project and accepted money for his campaign.

“It’s not criminal. I mean, it was during the time when I wasn’t a council member or an elected official.”

The tribe’s laws define a person as an “elected official” after he or she is elected to office. Its constitution states candidates are considered “elected” when they receive a majority of votes cast.

Tiger was elected in the Sept. 19, 2009, primary and signed the consulting contract Nov. 3, 2009.

Farris said he is unsure whether Rolls was aware Tiger was already an elected official when the two signed the contract.

“We didn’t pay attention to the timeline. We hired him as a consultant to help with the politics,” Farris said.

While Rolls and Tiger said their agreement is no longer in effect, they said there is no documentation showing it has been rescinded.

The contract contains no language stating it is invalid after Tiger takes office, but Farris said that was understood.

Under that scenario, Tiger’s consulting contract would be in effect for less than two months after he signed it.

Rolls’ payments to Tiger began in 2009, with an $8,000 check before he was elected and checks totaling $15,000 after the election. The contract includes a promissory note from Tiger agreeing to repay the $15,000 with proceeds from his consulting agreement.

Rolls said Tiger has not had to repay the loan because “the statute of limitations ran out.”

While on the tribal council, Tiger testified during a March 2011 court hearing at the request of the casino’s supporters.

Marcella Giles, an attorney and co-owner of the Broken Arrow property, told the judge: “We have a member, Mr. George Tiger, of the council of the Creek Nation that would, I believe, state that it is the position of the Creek Nation that their sister tribe has shared jurisdiction of that property.”

An attorney for Ellis told the judge that Tiger “does not speak for the government as a whole.”
‘Don’t cash it’

Records show Rolls paid Tiger $3,500 on the final day of that court hearing. Later that year, after Tiger filed to run for chief, Rolls paid him $5,000.

Tiger said that after he was sworn into office, Rolls’ payments were campaign donations and not for work on the casino project.

Records show that after Tiger was elected chief, Rolls wrote him a check for $7,000 but stopped payment when Tiger publicly opposed the casino project.

“The minute he went against me, I said, ‘Don’t cash it’ and he said, ‘No problem.’ And then I cussed him out a little bit and went on down the road,” Rolls said.

Rolls said the funds were campaign contributions and “to help him with his loan, his personal stuff.”

As detailed in the draft lawsuit, Tiger said he continued to meet with key players in the casino deal — Rolls, Kialegee “Mekko” Tiger Hobia, and property owners — through August 2012.
Tiger said he continued meeting with Rolls, Hobia and others because he wanted to negotiate a “nation to nation” agreement to help the small sister tribe open its own casino.
However, Ellis, who narrowly defeated Tiger in the 2007 election for chief, said Tiger’s motivation is clear. He said he recently became aware of the contract and payments Tiger accepted from Rolls.

“This chief down there is all about money for himself,” Ellis said.

He estimated Tiger personally would have collected about $2 million a year from the Kialegee casino “if it was moderately successful.”

Ellis publicly opposed the Kialegee casino project, calling it “encroachment of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation’s jurisdiction.”

When asked whether he will support the Kialegees’ quest to open a casino in the Tulsa area, Tiger said: “Economic development is certainly something that I certainly support.”

“We can do it nation to nation. That’s something that has to be considered very heavily,” he said.

However Tiger rejects the charge that his support would be acting against his tribe’s interests. The Creek Nation has a “unique relationship” with the Kialegees and other tribal towns that are part of the Creek’s history.

“They’re all federally recognized tribes, but they are also members of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, so how can you sell out someone that you are representing?” Tiger asked.

He said the Creek Nation is thriving under his leadership.

“Before I came in, we were stagnated as a nation. Now we’ve got a renaissance. … My political opponents see that and that’s why we are having this discussion.”

OKMULGEE — The (Muscogee) Creek Nation’s tribal council voted unanimously Tuesday night that it had no confidence in Chief George Tiger and plans to send a letter asking him to resign his position.

The action comes two days after a Tulsa World investigation reported that Tiger signed a secret contract in 2009 with the developer of a Broken Arrow casino project. The project would have benefitted another tribe, the Kialegee Tribal Town, and would have competed with his own tribe’s River Spirit casino in Tulsa.

Citizens at Tuesday’s emergency session of the tribal council also said they planned to file a petition Wednesday seeking Tiger’s impeachment.

“As citizens we have lost trust and faith in our elected officials,” said a woman who identified herself as a full-blood Creek tribal member from Hanna.

“I will be one of the first people in line to grab a petition to impeach the chief,” she said.

Tiger was in Las Vegas Tuesday to receive a national Indian Leadership Award and was not immediately available for comment. In an earlier interview with the World, he said he signed the contract before he was sworn into office in 2010 and he stopped working as a consultant after that.

Creek Council member Lucian Tiger III, no relation to the chief, sponsored the resolution of no confidence in Tiger. During the meeting, he said he was not concerned about any possible fallout because “I am one of the fortunate ones on the council who does not have any family that works for the nation.”

The 12-0 council vote of no confidence in Tiger came after records obtained and reported by the Tulsa World showed that two months after being elected to the tribe’s council in 2009, Tiger signed a lucrative consulting contract with the developer of a proposed Broken Arrow casino that would have paid him a share of gaming revenue and up to $200,000 in bonus payments.

Thomas Yahola, speaker of the tribal council, said councilors will write the letter Wednesday asking Tiger to resign. He said it would take several days to develop the resolution expressing no confidence in the chief.

The letter and resolution are largely symbolic and cannot force Tiger to step down. When asked about the reasons behind the council’s action, Yahola cited the World story.

“When the citizens saw this, they began to call this office and asked what was going to be done. We looked at our constitution and our constitution allows a procedure for removal,” Yahola said.

He said those attending the meeting were told that “before the national council can do anything, there has to be a petition” for removal.

Yahola said the constitution requires the signatures of 20 percent of the tribe’s registered voters. The tribe’s election board will determine the official number, but Yahola said signatures of approximately 3,200 tribal voters would be required for the petition to move forward.

In order to remove the tribe’s chief, 12 of the council’s 16 members are required to vote in favor of removal. Yahola, who votes in cases of a tie, did not vote on the resolution Tuesday night.

Three councilors were absent: Robert Hufft, Shirlene Ade and Johnnie Greene.

Approximately 50 tribal citizens turned up Tuesday night for the council’s emergency meeting at its Okmulgee council building. Though the council held its discussion in an executive session, Creek tribal members were allowed to attend the session, which continued for more than an hour.

At one point, a man could be heard shouting: “This nation is corrupt.” The man, who said he was 81 years old, angrily left the building.

He walked out with a tribal police officer but another officer said the man was not under arrest.

The council reopened its meeting to take a vote on its resolution of no confidence in Tiger. Before the vote, several citizens said they wanted to address the council.

A man who said he was a tribal employee said Tiger “seems very untouchable.”

“You have to have a little integrity as a Creek person. The ethics went out the window a long time ago with our main guy.”

The man said citizens have little information about their tribe’s finances. He and others expressed concern about the large amount of debt the tribe was taking on for new projects, including the $300 million River Spirit expansion.

“Do we have enough to last us? I don’t know. It’s sad that it’s something like this, something embarrassing, to make us sit down and talk like this.”

Earl Kelly, who said he works for the Creek Nation, said the tribe has “no transparency” with its finances. Citizens are not even told how much is in the tribe’s permanent fund, he said.

“It’s a shame that we are touted to be the fourth largest tribe in the United States yet our elders have to play benefit bingo to get medical benefits.”

Yahola said a forensic audit sought by the council is “kind of on stand by” due to an inability to access financial information. He said the tribe’s controller is supposed to furnish regular financial reports to the council but those reports are “not detailed like we want.”

Records show that in the years following that secret deal, Tiger worked behind the scenes with developer Shane Rolls, of Tulsa, and the Kialegee Tribal Town to gain approval for the Kialegee casino in Broken Arrow. Meanwhile, then-Creek Nation Chief A.D. Ellis and other tribal officials fought to stop what they viewed as an assault on Creek Nation sovereignty.

Tiger said his actions were legal and not a conflict of interest because they occurred before he was sworn into office as a tribal councilor in January 2010. However Tiger was defined under the Creek Nation’s law and constitution as an “elected official” when he signed the contract and took payments from Rolls, records show.

The contract contains a clause requiring the agreement and payments to Tiger be kept confidential, even after the contract expires. Tiger never disclosed the contract to his tribe, despite his later veto of tribal legislation opposing the casino.

The Kialegee Tribal Town, based in Wetumka, was part of the original Creek Nation confederacy along with several other tribal settlements in Oklahoma. Today, the Kialegee are members of a separate, tribe with its own government and about 400 members.

The Creek Nation has about 79,000 enrolled members.

The World recently obtained a copy of Tiger’s signed contract, copies of checks Rolls wrote to Tiger and a draft of a lawsuit Rolls threatened to file against Tiger related to the controversial casino deal. The records show Rolls agreed to give Tiger 5 percent of his company’s ownership in the casino, $5,000 per month once it opened and up to $200,000 in bonus payments for securing land approvals.

Rolls had prepared a lawsuit against Tiger alleging he accepted more than $30,000 but failed to abide by their contract. However Rolls is now on good terms with the chief and won’t file the lawsuit, his attorney said.

Tiger and Rolls confirmed that the contract, checks and draft lawsuit obtained by the World were authentic documents. Both said they had done nothing wrong and the documents represent a failed business deal.

Records show nearly all of Rolls’ $31,500 in payments to Tiger came after he was an elected official, as defined by the Creek Nation’s law and constitution.

After Tiger was elected chief in 2011, records show he continued to accept money from Rolls and attended several meetings on the casino project. His about-face happened after he was sworn in as chief and opposition grew.

The contract raises questions about where the chief stands now and whether he will support a new plan — detailed in a World story Saturday — by the Kialgee Tribal Town to build a casino in the Tulsa area.

Because the Kialegee tribe has no land in the Tulsa area, the new casino would almost certainly be built on Creek land, requiring support from Tiger and a majority of the tribe’s council for a “nation to nation” deal.

A federal judge’s injuction against the casino construction was thrown out by an appeals court. However Rolls said the casino will be built elsewhere due to intense opposition to the Broken Arrow site.

The Creek Nation’s River Spirit Casino is undergoing a massive $329 million expansion, adding a Margaritaville-themed casino, restaurant and 27-story hotel. The lender’s terms for that project won’t allow the Creeks to open a competing casino in the surrounding area.

Some tribal leaders say Tiger’s contract with Rolls is evidence he has acted against his tribe’s interests. The Kialegee casino would have siphoned up to $40 million away each year from the River Spirit Casino.

“It was going to hurt our casino a lot,” said Ellis, the Creek Nation’s chief from 2007-2011.

Rolls said he hired Tiger to help gain approval by landowners and elected officials in both tribes for the Kialegee casino.

Although the deal to open the Red Clay Casino in Broken Arrow stalled in 2012, records show Rolls had already paid Tiger more than $20,000 by that time.

Tiger was elected in the Sept. 19, 2009, primary and signed the consulting contract Nov. 3, 2009.

While on the tribal council, Tiger testified during a March 2011 court hearing at the request of the casino’s supporters.

Tiger said that after he was sworn into office, Rolls’ payments were campaign donations and not for work on the casino project.

At one point, a man could be heard shouting: “This nation is corrupt.” The man, who said he was 81 years old, angrily left the building.
He walked out with a tribal police officer but another officer said the man was not under arrest.