The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

From today's Tulsa World:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20111001_16_A15_CUTLIN282261 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20111001_16_A15_CUTLIN282261)

Work is expected to begin within two weeks on a plan to narrow most of Cherry Street to two lanes, with angled parking on the north side and parallel parking on the south side, a city official said this week.

...Shain said the new parking arrangement should also make the area safer for pedestrians.

"The speed limit is 25 mph, and they (drivers) go 45 mph," he said. "With this angled parking, it will have to slow driving down."

Business owners are all for it, of course, because more parking equates to more customers. If they really wanted to slow down traffic, installing a couple of fountains, maybe a statue of some slightly crazed suburban shopper, or (gasp!) encouraging bicycle traffic would have the same effect.  As it is, traveling on two wheels around angled parking spaces is very hazardous.

As always, mo' cars = mo' money.

Traveling on bike down 15th is already hazardous.  Much easier to use 14th (which connects to the MV Trail).

I live by Cherry Street and do not like this plan, especially since it doesn't include a better streetscape just new paint on the street.

I'm a little concerned as well, last night I was trying to see how the angled parking would fit.  Looks like large vehicles would definitely be encroaching on the sidewalk and likely hang out pretty far into the traffic lane.  I also cringe at the idea of riding a motorcycle down that street with SUV's backing out of spaces blind...  I do, however, think it should be an obvious two lane - the abrupt 4 lane to 2 lane situations are already dangerous.  I've almost been creamed a few times by folks zooming by in the lane that suddenly becomes parking.

I don't know how well it will work, but I did notice in old Beryl Ford photos that the parking was angled from the beginning. The cars were smaller, Ford A's and T's, but cars got much larger shortly afterward. The key is to slow cars down in the area and make it inconvenient to use 15th between Utica and Peoria except for destinations in that area. Eventually it would work better to have wider pedestrian, dining and bike areas with perhaps a single one way street. Parking lots could be placed in between 14th and 15th.

I'd like there to be a streetscape installed at some point.  They have angled parking on one side and parallel on the other on a street in Fayetteville, but the street is one-way.  15th, IMO, needs to stay 2-way.  The sidewalks in some parts are in bad shape and street trees are sorely needed for shade not only on our hot summer days but every day it's sunny with the east-west orientation of the street on a ridge.

I drove down 15th last night and like the look and feel of the change.  It also seemed to substantailly slow down the 15th St. traffic.

One thing that was odd was the way the city striped the east bound lanes on the west side of Peoria in front of McDonalds.  Rather than have the curb-side lane flow into a right turn only lane, the striping mergers both lanes into a sing lane that then opens back up to three lanes at the intersection - a left turn only, straight only and right turn only.  It unnecessarily bottlenecks the intersection, especially for those cars trying to turn right on Peoria that now have to merged in with the east bound trafic only to merge back out of it to turn right on Peoria.

Cherry Street is over rated....

Oh lord help us if we learn from that bad example. Fayetteville's renovation of Block Street was the biggest boondoggle since their failed trash incinerator project. They did need to calm traffic, as people would often fly down the street between Dickson and about Meadowish, but the way they went about it was reminiscent of the Dragnet theme: "dumb, dumb dumb dumb."

Also, I'm not too keen on the new angled parking in the Cherry Street area. It caters to suburbanites who can't be arsed to walk around the corner and cuts off the sidewalk and shops from the street, making the area feel less cohesive. The only good thing is that they didn't do the back-in angled parking like Fayetteville did in their bout of the stupids.

I think its a great plan, since most of the time you can only drive down the two lanes anyway with parking the way it is now and those Navigators and Escalades....

It has certainly slowed down the drivers on 15th; which is good.

Except that one can have timed no parking to allow for rush hour traffic, if need be. It also allows for left turners to not completely block the road in many instances, even when the right lane is partially used for parking. Parallel parking is more flexible, and I, for one, never had trouble with parking in the area, but I'm willing to walk a block if need be.

As someone who occasionally bikes that section of 15th, I'm also not too pleased about now having to avoid people backing out who inevitably don't see me and having morons get upset that I'm biking on the street now that they don't have a way to pass.

Angled parking was wrong in the 50s and it's wrong now.

I agree.  I have seen several 45 degree projects, and they always turn into messy and dangerous situations.  This type of parking arrangement went out with the invention of the SUV.  If you are in a small sedan and you are parked next to an Escalade, you just have to hold on to your steering wheel and prey when pulling out of a 45 degree parking spot!

FTFY ;)

PS: Mi Concina has free valet parking :)

I live right off Cherry Street and I like the change.  It was already two lanes by default most of the time since someone would always park in front of Full Moon and squeeze it to two lanes for that stretch.  It was a good idea to make the whole stretch two lanes and avoid the random bottlenecking.  Traffic has slowed down, but it doesn't back up to any real frustrating degree.  I drove through during a lunch hour rush and it was a bit slow, but not a stand still.  I had no complaints or frustrations.  It has become much easier to cross also since I walk up and down Cherry Street every few days for the exercise.

I am finding that the slowdown of traffic has also made it easier to turn left onto 15th from the side-streets.

So can this death be blamed on poor urban design, or just a bad driver?

The city's response is more lights. I'm not sure that will help that much. If people driving down Cherry Street on a busy Saturday night aren't already going slow and getting ready to stop, they're doing it wrong.

Family of woman killed in autoped accident calls for changes
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/hit-and-run-joann-carlson/XmKNonu5vEunTMmsIFbPTg.cspx?rss=2448

Street lights only really improve safety when they produce little or no glare.  Glare will keep you from seeing that kid or little old lady step out in front of you.
The solution isnt to add more glare, and yet that is exactly what some people end up proposing.  
How about shielding some of that glare instead?

That means no more in-your-face "acorn-style" lights that throw light horizontally at eye-level.   There are plenty of shielded choices that look just as nice in the daytime, but dont blind you at night.   Also, replace the opened-bottomed NEMA "farm lights" with low-glare, shielded "Full-Cutoff" fixtures that light the same amount of street for half the electricity (which, BTW, is a good way to pay them off).

Don't get me wrong; LED streetlights have great potential, but only if we get the color and optical performance right.   It's just that everything Im hearing from the Mayors and TPD's spokespeople is practically right out of the Phillips sales brochure, and not truly informed study.

Cherry Street could benefit from some serious traffic calming (and I dont mean speed bumps) that would be more effective than ruining the character and ambiance of the neighborhood with prison-yard lighting.


Stop using blinding junk like this:
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/15571418_BG1.jpg)

And consider something like this:
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2009/20090614_bradyrend0614.jpg)
(http://www.taiwantrade.com.tw/MAIN//resources/member/5255/productcatalog//0b1fdf8c-0ec7-4d2c-9ab4-d90cb184ad7e_32_201200004311_L.jpg)

There appear to be blind spots. I have come close twice going at 5 mph. Recognize the fact that signage lighting, street lighting, and oncoming traffic combine to cause glare and bad visual light. Blind spots have become increasingly an issue there ever since the new parking plan. They need to remove several spaces close to corners to make the line of sight more open to those crossing the street.

Cherry Street for a driver at night is a nightmare. The markings at the intersections have faded beyond visibility. People at Peoria and at Utica simply don't understand where the left turn lane is and where the right lane is. First improvement would to be repainting the lines for that half mile. Drivers stop without warning to make left turns which causes the drivers behind them to swerve into non-existant lanes. Drivers shooting the gap at Utica then stopping quickly to turn into the bakery are common.

Then, regardless of what lights are there, you cannot see the pedestrians from dusk to dark crossing the street. They are black silhouettes at best and as unpredictable as squirrels. In daytime the pedestrian can make eye contact with the driver and get feedback. That is impossible when the pedestrian (or driver) is drinking or pre-occupied with their group and the driver is stupidly driving fast anyway.

I try hard to avoid Cherry Street at night. I'm sure that was not the intention of the redesign. Repainting lines and improving lighting would be helpful.

I completely agree with the ideas of the family in that article. More visible crosswalks are a necessity.

People have to go 25MPH or less on this street...however when I go that slow and stop for opening car doors, people turning left or pedestrians trying to cross in the middle of the block I almost always get hit by the impatient driver behind me.

Riding a bike on Cherry Street is just plain scary now, in spite of the message intended by all of the new bike racks.

Seems to be a common theme, are crosswalks there irrelevant?

I don't understand why there is not more of a police presence.  Living in Brookside, I was amazed by all the violations that I would see and the police would not pull people over.  It seems in other cities, people are aware of the traffic laws and will slow down in crosswalks, not speed in areas where there are pedestrians, etc. because they know they will be ticketed.  Better crosswalks are great, but if people will not follow the law if they do not have a fear of being ticketed.  I would love to see motorcycle officers in these areas just for a reminder to people driving.

Pedestrians are not using the cross-walks. They are running across in the middle of the block. I expect people to cross from Mi Cocina to White Owl and slow way down there. Makes sense to put the cross-walk where people are crossing (and not where you expect them to cross). Flashing 25MPH signs would also help.

Which is a ticketable offense as well.

Maybe real cobblestone streets would help.  (Not smooth go fast type surfaces.)

Agreed

Please no - we need fewer streets built to crumble under Oklahoma weather extremes.  The brick cross-walks in Brookside lasted about 3 months before they needed work.  Police presence to enforec the rules would be much preferred.

I'm not talking about cheap **** bricks.  I am talking about real cobblestones like East Coast cities used for hundreds of years.

There are good reasons cities moved away from cobblestone to concrete and asphalt.  There are cheaper and better ways to slow down traffic without using 18th century paving technology.

It'd make the carriages sound much cooler.

Brick and Stone streets last forever. Check out Cheyenne Ave Between First and Archer, these are the same bricks that were laid more than 100 years ago. Lots of streets in the downtown area still have brick beds that have been covered with asphalt over time (Carson Ave between 14th and 15th for example).

Romans did well with them as well. About 1650 yrs so far.

11th & Utica still has brick in places under the asphalt.  It peaks through at times.

The brick on 5th street between Boulder and Denver did not fare quite as well and portions have been replaced over the years.  Perhaps if we were still allowed to periodically raid neighboring states to bring back cheap, skilled and reliable indentured servants we could build and maintain brick and cobblestone roads cost effectively. 

The presence of bright(er) light increases one's perception of safety, emboldening pedestrians to take risks in the belief that they will be seen in plenty of time for a car to give them right of way.  Many people have lost their lives because of this assumption.

Cherry Street only has a couple of cobra street lights. It has no Pedestrian lighting to speak of, but lots of commerical signage.

To keep this way off topic, if you want to see a city with a TON of brick streets visit Hominy Oklahoma, they have brick streets than I have ever seen, and a pretty cool art gallery, soda shop and indians on the mountains...

http://www.hominydiner.com/gpage.html1.html

That's an interesting observation. People assume the driver sees them because of the bright lights. Eye contact is very important in car/pedestrian interaction. If I cannot make eye contact with the pedestrian I suspect they don't see me or are in an altered mental state.  If they would cross at intersections it would be helpful but its those folks who come from in between parked cars in the middle of the block who are at most risk.

This morning I saw silhouettes in the dark fog crossing on North Peoria in between 36th and 46th, a long, smooth open area where its easy to get up speed. Could have been dogs, or other free range animals. Turns out to have been mom, dad and two kids heading to the bus stop. Dumb move but I see it a lot around town.

I often cite that strip of Cherry Street as being an example of what good lighting levels should be like.  Would be a shame to glare it all up with harsh lighting.  Especially if I read the story right on Channel 6 News, and the accident happened during the day.  Perhaps, there again, it couldn't possibly be the pedestrian or drivers faults, it's that city should know that the sun itself isn't bright enough to be safe and we should install more lighting?

Those were substandard bricks. It is difficult to make paving quality bricks any more. There are rules on the furnaces and most bricks made now are architectural grade.

Anyone notice we now have a street light on every utility pole on Cherry Street between Peoria and Utica?

I wish they would make the road lane lines clearer. Many times have I almost been run into by people in the right lane by McDonalds not paying attention to the "right turn only" signs and going straight through the light.

They are on the second set of striping in less than a year...it doesn't seem to last long on this street.

Ya gotta do bricks right.  And Brookside didn't do it right if they lasted anything less than 70 years!!

For real.  70 years and more.  Go drive around Nowata or many of the small towns around here.  Much better roads.

How much traffic on Nowata roads?

Well, they have about 6,000 people with a network of roads that covers an area that is primarily encompassed by an area close to that of 21st to 41st, Yale to Sheridan - small town, light traffic.  Traffic counts will be much less than Tulsa.  Their main street (highway 60) gets about 5,000 vehicles a day.  And the brick on main has been covered up since about the mid 70's -ish.  When it was covered, it was structurally sound along most of it, but was not "smooth" like asphalt.

Their brick roads were put down mostly in the 30's.  When you get away from the main drag, many of the streets show need of maintenance - some very rough, but many are fundamentally sound.  Vastly better than the same type of neighborhood road in Tulsa with the same amount of wear over time.  If you allowed any Tulsa residential street to go as long without "rebuild" as those brick streets have gone with minimal maintenance, they would have reverted back to 'gravel' long, long ago.

And that brick provides a very effective built in traffic calming effect...it will washboard your teeth right out of your head if you go too fast!

Went by last night to look at them.

As far as I could tell (in the rain) it actually looked good.
Using existing pole spacings to determine light placement is not ideal design practice, but sometimes you get lucky, and the light looked fairly uniform.
They are LED Cobras that appeared to be Full Cutoff (FCO, so that will help with glare) and the intensity didn't appear to be way out of scale for the surroundings.
Not crazy about the garish blue color, but Ill get some pictures in better weather.

Apparently a lot more thought went into this than the recent "LightsOn!" bullshirt the city slapped together for 61st & Peoria and north Tulsa, so I find this very encouraging.

I agree that its not bad. The glare is low, the street and sidewalk are visible and it doesn't interfere with the lighted signage.

I have to say that I have seen the LED replacements for overhead lighting and I agree that it's good and also found the blueish color a bit bright. The ones that I saw were the square fixtures like you would see in the canopy at a QT. I think the biggest issue, for me, was that it was almost excessively bright. I think that a slightly smaller number of LEDs per fixture, and or maybe a different lense color to tone it down would help.

Slightly OT, whatever came of the development where the old Mercury Mortgage buildng was at 14th & Utica?

Ask TTC

I'll pass on that one.

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=9210.msg264909#msg264909

The owner can do nothing and let it sit.

There is a big difference in the eye's sensitivity to blue-rich LED's Vs. the more orangish High Pressure Sodium we are used to, so yes, they could have turned down the intensity a bit and still have good visual acuity.  The neat thing about LED Cobras is you can order them with a broad range of intensities, simply by adding or subtracting groups of LEDs.
Overall, I would call the new lighting on Cherry street an improvement not only for Cherry Street but the city's approach to street lighting in general.

I found this amusing:
http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=3981031 

"I've never had this problem before"

I'm not sure what that even means. Every mid-block crosswalk in Tulsa is like that (and in most of the country).

Nobody stops until you start walking. The only way to cross is to wait for a break large enough so you're not forcing them to slam on the brakes, start cautiously walking while also being ready to get out of the way if they don't stop, which is not an unlikely scenario.

TPD could do some crosswalk enforcement. I've never seen them doing so, and it seems like it'd be easier, create more revenue with less required manpower, and increase safety a lot more than those speed traps on the expressway.

http://youtu.be/98aTVVyhvqE

I believe the law is for drivers to stop for pedestrians in/on the crosswalk.  No need for the drivers to stop if you are still up on the sidewalk.  Step off the sidewalk onto the crosswalk and I believe you get the right to continue.  Just don't be dead right. 

Additionally, Cherry Street will undergo a street rehabilitation project in mid-to-late 2016, says Doug Helt, lead engineer for the project.

The project will cost $3 million and be funded by the Improve our Tulsa package.
Helt and his team are currently beginning the design process for the project and plan to have design renderings by August or September.

The project will focus on repairing all portions of 15th Street from Peoria to Lewis avenues, including sidewalks, parking areas and crosswalks.

“There have been temporary changes made to the street regarding painting and striping in various areas,” says Helt. “Now, we want to go out there and make those temporary changes permanent.”

Those temporary changes are important, though, because they “give us a working model to come back and, later, make them permanent if they work,” he says.

Helt does not foresee any changes being made to parking layout or street width.
At least one public meeting will be held later this year in order to receive feedback from residents and others, Helt says.

http://gtrnews.com/greater-tulsa-reporter/13447/area-districts-see-development

I like Mr Helt. I'm glad this is his project.

This is great news.  Hopefully this improves the overall walkability and pedestrian safety in Cherry St.

They need signs in the middle strip that say STOP FOR PEDESTRIANS.

Some flowers and more trees would be great. The lighting at night needs major improvements. I can't tell you how many times people have walked out in front of me that I never saw because the lighting is so terrible. Thankfully I drive much slower through there at night because of that. I don't know how someone hasn't been seriously hurt yet.

Traffic calming is important... they could use some small center medians with plantings (similar to Brookside) to help slow traffic down, and make pedestrians feel safer crossing the street. 

They need these in Brookside too. 

Cherry Street should have some Cherry Trees I think. Right now it has one at Quincy.

Similar to the ones in Jenks?

Does Jenks have them on Main Street?

Something like this:

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/VcuuJD.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/f0VcuuJDj)

I mean really, how much can these costs? Why they haven't been installed yet just blows my mind.

That looks like them.

Amazing! In every other state we travel to, drivers know to stop when there is someone in a crosswalk.

They must not know about the bonus points.

1 point for every pedestrian,  2 points for a bicyclist.
First driver to 100 points wins.
 
 ;D

How long have you been here??  It's Oklahoma.  We just this week finally got a law against texting while driving.  And it wasn't even important enough to take effect until November....   (No emergency clause).

You mean we really have to post signs to tell people not to run over people? and you shouldn't "Because it's the law?"

I like being a high point value target!

Same question I posted to LandArch....

How long have you been here??  It's Oklahoma!!

And yes, we do have to tell people not to run over people!!

No common sense in Oklahoma.  What's our education ranking at, again?  Maybe if we were to break into the mid 30s, we wouldn't need the signs

The shielded street lighting they put in 2 years ago was a big improvement.  Its much more uniform than the Hodge-podge of lights they could hang on random poles.  My only criticism is they used earlier generations of LEDs that are a bit too blue; today its common to find LEDs that are the color of incandescent lights.

You're welcome.  I'll be looking for you.
 
 ;D

Problem is, aren't we now assuming that they can actually read the signs?  :P

Just tell my you have crosshairs in the viewing range on your Beemer!

Minor point but I have a Bimmer.

Beemer = 2 wheel motorcycle from BMW
Bimmer = 4 wheel automobile from BMW

Per info from BMW Car Club of America.

Beemer and Beezer are from motorcycles of BMW and BSA.

Motorists must yield for pedestrians regardless of where they cross, but some of the blame shifts to pedestrians hit while not in crosswalks.


Last night:

Tulsa police say an officer drove up on a body near Admiral and North Sheridan Road just before 10 p.m. Friday. The victim was taken to a hospital where he later died.

Early in the investigation, police say a man approached the officers and told them he was the driver that hit the pedestrian. That man is an off-duty Osage Tribal Police officer who told police he wasn't sure he'd hit anything but came back to the scene to make sure, authorities say.

The area was dark, and the pedestrian had not been in a crosswalk, according to Tulsa police. Police have not made any arrests in this incident.

The victim is an unknown, homeless man, records show.
http://www.newson6.com/story/28959600/man-killed-hit-by-car-on-east-tulsa-street

Um, someone was killed crossing Cherry St two years ago.

http://www.newson6.com/story/21087669/family-of-grandmother-killed-by-hit-and-run-driver-plead-for-information

Wheezers and Whizzers....

Potatoe potato...

(http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/DeathRace2000Car.jpg)
(http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/0/0a/DR2K_02.jpg/500px-DR2K_02.jpg)

Just remembered where a lot of us got are training on dealing with pedestrians in the 70's

(http://images.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/files/deathrace_5.jpg)

(http://pixeldiskurs.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/deathrace2.png)

I knew I would manage to mangle that.  I’ll correct the next BMW rider who refers to his two-wheeled steed as a “Bimmer”  ;D