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House panel considers 'In God We Trust'

By Gabe LaMonica, CNN

The House Judiciary Committee is scheduled to vote Thursday on a measure to reaffirm “In God We Trust” as the national motto and to encourage its display on public buildings, including schools.

U.S. Rep. Randy Forbes, R-Virginia, is sponsoring the measure on the national motto, adopted in 1956.

Critics say the vote is purely political.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/17/house-panel-votes-on-in-god-we-trust/ (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/17/house-panel-votes-on-in-god-we-trust/)

To put this in the absurd light it deserves, consider the uproar if "In Allah We Trust" were proposed.  Or how about "In The Flying Spaghetti Monster We Trust."  Those who are incensed by opposition to their Christian beliefs and their incessant attempts to use the power of government to further those beliefs need to see this from the other side.   

As an atheist may I suggest "Don't Trust Anyone"? :D

Why is it that whenever the word "God" is mentioned the first religion that comes to mind is "Christianity". Don't Jews, Deists, and even Muslims look to "God"?

Why is it that you feel the need to defend every single right wing nonsense lowest common denominator pandering crap idea that comes along?


It’s not about whose god it refers too, it’s that this law feels like something out of Pakistan.

As an atheist may I suggest "Don't Trust Anyone"? :D

Because we are a nation of whiny little pu....., I mean cowards when it comes to expression of religious conviction which incidentally is at the heart of this country's founding. This "crap idea" offends you? Sheesh, steer clear of our Declaration of Independence" then because you may really crap yourself.

Because we are a nation of whiny little pu....., I mean cowards when it comes to expression of religious conviction which incidentally is at the heart of this country's founding. This "crap idea" offends you? Sheesh, steer clear of our Declaration of Independence" then because you may really crap yourself.

Because we are a nation of whiny little pu....., I mean cowards when it comes to expression of religious conviction which incidentally is at the heart of this country's founding. This "crap idea" offends you? Sheesh, steer clear of our Declaration of Independence" then because you may really crap yourself.

Actually the freedom of religion and the expression of those religions, or lack there of, are at the heart of this country's founding.  Which really means that you don't use the government and the law of the land to shove your personal beliefs down everyone elses throat.  It's bad enough that when someone steps outside the norm with their beliefs (and I'm not talking Charlie Sheen outside, just outside) all of the religious nuts try to shame them into admitting they are wrong, but it seems that you and those like you want to have the government do it as well.  Tell me, what is the purpose of having "In God We Trust" not only as our motto, but on every federal building as well?

It’s not at all the statement that offends me, it’s the dictating that it always be included in the design of public buildings.

And religious conviction was not at the heart of this country's founding, at all. Religion was pretty clearly kept out of government, on purpose.

Except for all that "endowed by our Allah, er...Creator" crap, I guess you are right.

What are you yapping about?  Where have you seen that?  Who is telling you they want to put that on the buildings/money?  Place monuments on the city/state/federal properties?  Are they telling you you are a coward for not supporting their religious ideas?

Except for all that "endowed by our Allah, er...Creator" crap, I guess you are right.

Having "In God We Trust" on our buildings is tantamount to shoving personal belief's down a person's throat? Man, I guess we are a nation of weaklings.

So you would be okay if the Motto was changed to "In a Myth we Trust" if it was to be mandated for it to be on all federal buildings?  And yes, having a proclimation to your beliefs being placed on everything federal, from buildings to currancy, is shoving your religion down my throat.

Not my choice on what our national motto is. If you want it changed, have at it. Oh, and grow a damned pair. I cannot believe you feel so threatened and abused over "In God we Trust", particularly since you were super quick in dismissing the Tulsa police officer who felt his religious freedoms were being abused when the government through proclamation ordered him to order others to attend an Islamic event.

Not my choice on what our national motto is. If you want it changed, have at it. Oh, and grow a damned pair. I cannot believe you feel so threatened and abused over "In God we Trust", particularly since you were super quick in dismissing the Tulsa police officer who felt his religious freedoms were being abused when the government through proclamation ordered him to order others to attend an Islamic event.

Oh, and grow a damned pair. I cannot believe you feel so threatened and abused over "In God we Trust", particularly since you were super quick in dismissing the Tulsa police officer who felt his religious freedoms were being abused when the government through proclamation ordered him to order others to attend an Islamic event.

Not my choice on what our national motto is. If you want it changed, have at it. Oh, and grow a damned pair. I cannot believe you feel so threatened and abused over "In God we Trust", particularly since you were super quick in dismissing the Tulsa police officer who felt his religious freedoms were being abused when the government through proclamation ordered him to order others to attend an Islamic event.

So wait, which is it, grow a pair and change the motto, or grow a pair and ignore the motto? How exactly could Cust man up here?  

The phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and "In God We Trust" on U.S. money do not violate the Constitution's separation of church and state, a federal appeals court panel has ruled in San Francisco.

"The Pledge is constitutional," Judge Carlos Bea wrote for the majority in the 2-1 ruling by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel. "The Pledge of Allegiance serves to unite our vast nation through the proud recitation of some of the ideals upon which our Republic was founded."

Moreover, apart from that claim of coercion, we do not see how New York by this type of 'released time' program has made a law respecting an establishment of religion within the meaning of the First Amendment. There is much talk of the separation of Church and State in the history of the Bill of Rights and in the decisions clustering around the First Amendment. See Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1, 67 S.Ct. 504, 91 L.Ed. 711; McCollum v. Board of Education, supra. There cannot be the slightest doubt that the First Amendment reflects the philosophy that Church and State should be separated. And so far as interference with the 'free exercise' of religion and an 'establishment' of religion are concerned, the separation must be complete and unequivocal. The First Amendment within the scope of its coverage permits no exception; the prohibition is absolute. The First Amendment, however, does not say that in every and all respects there shall be a separation of Church and State. Rather, it studiously defines the manner, the specific ways, in which there shall be no concert or union or dependency one on the other. That is the common sense of the matter. Otherwise the state and religion would be aliens to each other—hostile, suspicious, and even unfriendly. Churches could not be required to pay even property taxes. Municipalities would not be permitted to render police or fire protection to religious groups. Policemen who helped parishioners into their places of worship would violate the Constitution. Prayers in our legislative halls; the appeals to the Almighty in the messages of the Chief Executive; the proclamations making Thanksgiving Day a holiday; 'so help me God' in our courtroom oaths—these and all other references to the Almighty that run through our laws, our public rituals, our ceremonies would be flouting the First Amendment. A fastidious atheist or agnostic could even object to the supplication with which the Court opens each session: 'God save the United States and this Honorable Court.'
We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being. We guarantee the freedom to worship as one chooses. We make room for as wide a variety of beliefs and creeds as the spiritual needs of man deem necessary....

So apparently all these people dipped in Jesus ...

You never answered either of my questions, the first would be what is the purpose of having that as our motto and placing it on every building.  The second would be are you saying that if the motto were different and endorsed a belief other than yours such as I proposed, would you have a problem with it being on everything federal?

And I love how you say I need to grow a pair because I speak out against something I disagree with.  I am willing to go against the status quo yet apparantly I'm a weakling.  

I DO NOT GIVE A SH!T whether this motto goes on any building. I am just tired of your and others whining about it. As for any other motto going on buildings; I do not live in your hypothetical world. I mean, we can "what if" this issue to death. But as my drill sergeant once said: "What if...what if...what if...worms had machine guns, then birds would not f#ck with them". If you want more information about my position, see my response to Swake and pay particular attention to what the law of the land is on this question.

My point is that you can be all high and mighty about it and tell everyone else to do whatever you think they should do when it is your religion that is being promoted.  I am willing to place bets that you would be yelling and screaming in any situation where the shoe was on the other foot.  As far as the Supreme Court's opinions on the matter, are you trying to tell me that the Supreme Court has never handed down a decision that later were decided differantly by the same court, just with different Justices?  The "Law of the Land" is the Constitution, how it is interpreted changes often.  As far as your insistance about the majority of the nation being Christians, you do realize that there are provisions in the Constitution specifically intended to keep the majority from running ramshot over the minority, right?  I'm also guessing you still haven't come up with a good spin on what purpose placing this on everying serves other than to promote a beleif in a god.

Why not "all men are created equal"...

Because women (and most likely Cust) would be gravely offended since that slogan is plainly misogynistic and bigoted. It was probably penned by a Christian man.

How is my Roman Catholic faith being promoted with "In God You Trust"? Second, as far as USSC opinions changing over time, tell me what is leading you to believe that our judicial system is going to find the motto and pledge unconstitutional. The second quoted passage was from an opinion in the 1950s. I think it's settled now. Now, I am not sure what "running ramshot" means, but I have no problem with the inference that trusting in God is a good thing.

And yes, this is a minor issue. Alarmists like you or that big doosh Barry Lynn noted in the OP's link want to believe and encourage others to think that simply encouraging the posting of our nation's motto, which is CONSTITUTIONAL whether you like it or not, is somehow oppressive is so insulting.

I would like to know if any recent polls have been taken on whether the public supports "In God We Trust" on money or anything else. I have seen a 2003 poll that had either or 80 or 90% approval.

In the 1950's America had a real love affair going on with hard core Protestant christianity and all but making it a national religion

However, as I said above, spending tens of millions to emblazzin it on public buildings is for no other reason than to proclaim how godly of a nation we are.

Again, 80-90% of Americans probably don't know that "In God We Trust" was added upon the guidance of a Christian Preacher to show the world and future generations we weren't a godless nation following the unrivaled carnage, rape and murder of the Civil War. "Under God" was slipped into the pledge to differentiate us against the godless communists in the 1950's (and in God We Trust as the official Motto in 1956). Most support it simply because they think it was always there, not out of any ethos; and their belief is wrong. The two instances you brought up were put in place specifically in an attempt to advertise our national religion.

"In God we Trust."   "Under God"

We know it isn't supporting Eastern religions (largely lacking a god).  It certainly isn't including atheists.  It's not considering naturalistic religions.  Pluralist religions are not included either.  It only incorporates monotheistic religions that belief in divine providence or intervention (hence trust in a singular omnipotent being).  Few Muslims or Jews frequently use the term "God" when referring to their deity, when it was written Catholics would have certainly preferred the latin.  Still others find it sacrilege to associate their Lord with currency.  And yet more people have been taught NOT to display their religion to the world.

I'm not all too concerned with the currency or even the pledge, I find it kind of amusing.  Better yet, in order to defend the position religious people have resorted to arguing that "In God We Trust" really has no meaning.  I heard if you say trusting in God has noreal  religious meaning three times, a cock crows.   ;D

However, as I said above, spending tens of millions to emblazzin it on public buildings is for no other reason than to proclaim how godly of a nation we are.

One of the first found references of the motto “In God We Trust” is heard in the U.S. National Anthem, The Star-Spangled Banner. The song was written by Francis Scott Key in 1814 and later adopted as the national anthem. In the last stanza Key writes a variation of the phrase: “...And this be our motto: In God is our trust. And the Star Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave, O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.” The words were shortened to In God We Trust and first applied to U.S. coins in 1864.

I accept that the Court has repeatedly held that "in god we trust" is not religious (it is just a casual use of the word god and not referring to a deity).

What I don't get is what purpose is there to putting it on buildings other than to proclaim religion?  If the purpose is overt, it is an entirely different context and case.

  Down with education and up with a Motto!