The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Tax cuts for the wealthier taxpayers has always been a sound economic political strategy.
/s  ::)

Cool!  Attracting more businesses that are fleeing the blue states.

Should also help our housing market.  We still are holding a large inventory of homes in the 300K + range.

Cool!  Attracting more businesses that are fleeing the blue states.

Yeah, that's not actually happening. It shows what a crock of smile the supposed fiscal conservatism is. To do it correctly, you have a surplus and then cut taxes. Ever since Reagan acted the fool, it seems everyone else has done what they can to get in on the action.

Yeah, but he was going to pay it back eventually.  At some point the Neo-Cons decided that wasn't really necessary nor a priority because deficits don't matter.

Ever since Reagan acted the fool. . .

(http://dopodomani.me/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/angry_girl.jpg)


Yeah, we should go back to the pre-Regan tax structure.  That would make this country great!  

Bahahahahah!

Ah yes, roads. The only thing that could possibly make a community better.

Yeah, we should go back to the pre-Regan tax structure.  That would make this country great! 

Bahahahahah!

Just imagine how much it could be cut if we wiped out government waste or how much better our services could be if we wiped out government waste. Either way you want to look at it eliminating the waste should be priority 1. Of course you, I and the oak trees know that is never going to happen in our lifetimes.

What about doing BOTH? Cutting waste and  cutting taxes? Tax cuts do not cut gov't income for long, they spur the economy and growth  and increase gov't income by an expanding economy making more jobs and thus more people are working &  paying taxes. Raising taxes is what kills the economy & kills  jobs shrinking the economy resulting in less gov't money flowing in forcing the state to raise taxes more to make up for the loss and you end up with a cycle of a shrinking economy and high unemployment like in Michigan and the national economy uder Obama.

Hmmm. For 2011, the state of Texas collected $1501.17 per resident. The state of Oklahoma collected $1347.22.

So we need to lower taxes to..be competitive with Texas? What?

Facts, they're such bitches.

Texas offsets it's 'no income tax' with higher property/ad valor em taxes.  Even if you rent you still pay because your landlord factors all that in.  I know, I lived there.  I know stinky cabbage did too...

History shows otherwise. Mary Fallin is doing an outstanding job. That's why Oklahoma has had such low unemployment rates while other states have 10% unemployment. Since Fallin came to power Oklahoma's economy did very well and the jobless rates kept dropping. Jimmy Carter had the national economy in shambles, Ronald Reagan came to power in 1980 and reversed Jimmy Carter's economy by cutting taxes and the economy turned around and the gov't got more income not less income because the economy grew & expanded making more jobs to...  Raising taxes in a bad economy makes things worse. Mary Fallin is attracting companies in from other states and those new companys will hire workers who will be paying taxes. A cycle of a booming economy starts.. When Henery was in office Oklahoma's unemployment was over 7% or there abouts.

What about doing BOTH? Cutting waste and  cutting taxes? Tax cuts do not cut gov't income for long, they spur the economy and growth  and increase gov't income by an expanding economy making more jobs and thus more people are working &  paying taxes. Raising taxes is what kills the economy & kills  jobs shrinking the economy resulting in less gov't money flowing in forcing the state to raise taxes more to make up for the loss and you end up with a cycle of a shrinking economy and high unemployment like in Michigan and the national economy uder Obama.

Oklahoma has somewhat lower rates than our neighbors on many taxes.  The problem is that we tax almost everything.

Since I don't have figures at hand for county/local tax collections all I can say is that at least as far as state-levied taxes go we're better off than Texans, even with more stuff being taxed.

Don't forget Texas is not the only state with no income tax, South Dakota, Wyoming, FL, Nevada, Washington and a few others have no income tax and they are all doing well, soon Oklahoma may joint the list of no-income tax states. I don't know what the prop taxes rates are in other states with no income tax. Most states do not tax food either.

Oklahoma has somewhat lower rates than our neighbors on many taxes.  The problem is that we tax almost everything.  Reminds me of the Beatles song about the Taxman.

We should look forward to more of that. The problem with OK's tax system lies in collections. We tax a lot of things which means it is an unwieldy, hard to enforce system that is subject to a lot of cheating and evasion.

Here are two of those states that have no income tax that you think are doing well:

Nevada....12.9% unemployment rate ....#51 ranking...highest unemployment in the nation
Florida....9.9% unemployment rate....#45 ranking

This according to the Bureau of Labor statistics.

So, it looks like their zero income tax is about as helpful as Oklahoma's Right to Work laws. Which is to say...not.

Case in point: the Use Tax.  Do you remember the commercials they've just started airing regarding that in the last two years or so?

You took the time to look them up.  What about the other states without income tax?

Right to Work... How are the states without RTW laws doing?

I'm too lazy or don't care enough but since you have already done the legwork, how about putting them all up.

Case in point: the Use Tax.  Do you remember the commercials they've just started airing regarding that in the last two years or so?

As far as RTW, that's a different subject. No motivation to look up other states.

You thought it was important enough to mention.

I didn't mention it in regards to other states. I said it appears that zero income tax in those states is about as effective as RTW in Oklahoma. Are you asserting that OK's failure to attract employment with their RTW law has some relation to other states zero income tax policies? Perhaps they also fell for that one too. That might be worth looking up. I could also add that OK touted compact gambling in casinos would increase school funding, when in fact per pupil expenditure is stagnant regardless of how well the casinos have done.

We have got to stop thinking that our basic failures to educate, enlighten and nurture our state's population can be remedied by simply eliminating taxes, tax waste, unions and welfare.

Someday the Federal government will step in and end the madness. Online retailers have no excuse, at least with respect to Streamlined Sales Tax member states, for not collecting tax. There are companies that provide tax rate lookups and submit returns on a retailer's behalf for no charge to the retailer; the state pays the service provider a percentage of collections. The problem is that buying into the system, even for no money, puts the individual retailer at a disadvantage.

Point being that I understand why they choose not to collect sales/use tax when they don't have to, but given the minimal cost involved they should be required to collect for streamlined states given how easy they've made it on the retailer.

I just know that you are so pro-union that, in my opinion, you believe that making union membership mandatory is the cure to our economic woes.  I hope that perception is incorrect. 

Oklahoma's spending on education is a mixed bag.  We pass legislation to insure that new money is dedicated to education and then take money that was already being spent on education and use it elsewhere.  Money is not the cure to education, an attitude among parents is more important but there is a threshold below which a quality education is not possible.  For the record, I have voted for almost every education based revenue enhancement I can remember.  There may have been a few that I believed to be bogus but I don't remember them at the moment.

We need to be business friendly but low taxes are not the only issue.

Here are two of those states that have no income tax that you think are doing well:

Nevada....12.9% unemployment rate ....#51 ranking...highest unemployment in the nation
Florida....9.9% unemployment rate....#45 ranking
In fact only 2 of the states without income tax (you didn't mention Tennessee #35, Alaska #21, New Hampshire #4) are in the top half of the states rankings of unemployment. Texas is at #25. This according to the Bureau of Labor statistics.

So, it looks like their zero income tax is about as helpful as Oklahoma's Right to Work laws. Which is to say...not.

Yep but OK is not the only state playing that game.

RTW didn't do what it promised.

Correct, they're not.  But OK has had the use tax for years now.  Why all of a sudden?  Oh, budget shortfalls!  That would be why!

Oh my. This is interesting. The only two states to be in the top half of unemployment rankings on your list of zero income tax states are the only two states on your list to NOT have Right To Work laws!

Alaska, ranked #21 in unemployment and is NOT a Right to Work state. (How did Palin let that happen?)
New Hampshire ranked #4 in unemployment and is NOT a Right to Work state.

So, indeed there seems to be a correlation with RTW, Zero Income Tax and high levels of unemployment.

Well put.

I also hope Oklahomans are starting to realize what happens when you allow Legislative and Executive offices to be dominated by one party and the extreme elements of that party to boot. We get these oddball agendas that have nothing to do with keeping the state prosperous and well run but gives us plenty of YouTube time and dubious distinctions of being on the top of lists the southern states dominate.

However, it did succeed at doing what was intended, which was encourage free-riders so as to weaken the political power of unions. I find a strong contradiction in the thinking of those who claim to be of a libertarian bent but are blind to the obvious, which is that if corporations have the freedom to influence politics with vast sums of money, unions are the only candidate for a counterbalance. Both sides should get a seat at the table, but the Republicans have been busy kneecapping the unions so they can't claim one.

That's not to say that union corruption should go unpunished, but it would be nice to see the same scrutiny visited on their counterparts in management.

RTW didn't do what it promised.

And some day we will be able to test your theory of more money per pupil does not cure education when we actually try it. I refuse to believe that our feedstock is inherently inferior to surrounding states.

As far as unions, I believe that neutering unions by law is counterproductive to all parties to business. Balance is essential to progress in most companies. When labor is represented well or treated well you have balance. You lose that balance you have no checks and balances and excesses ensue.  Neither do I believe that an overbearing, arrogant union is useful. I have a union where I work and have chosen not to participate because with RTW it is pointless. Very weak union. My employer visits union meetings (we're a member of a large union that represents many other types of companies) and writes down the names of participants from our industry for future use. It isn't to give kudos to them later.;) Its truly Industrial Age behavior.

Neither Unions nor Corporations should have any political power as organizations.  Individual members should have say as just that, individual members.

Statistical samples of 2 out of 50?  You may be right but so far you have not proven anything.

When I moved to OK (with the rest of the family) in 1971 and registered Republican, I could have just as well registered non-voter in local elections.  I don't agree with the religious wackos the Republican party has put up lately but I still cannot buy into the Democratic Party candidates either. 

Neither Unions nor Corporations should have any political power as organizations.  Individual members should have say as just that, individual members.

I'll give you the Obama reasoning for the stimulus as a response:  It could have been worse.  We will never really know.

What don't you understand about a minimum threshold of spending?  As far as feedstock, I don't believe our folks are any less intelligent than surrounding states but I do believe there is a possibility that "we" don't place as high a value on formal education as some others.  Throwing money at a situation where the participants don't see the need for the solution will not result in the desired outcome.  Maybe it comes from our rural roots where being able to fix the tractor or weld a broken plow was more important than solving "If train A leaves the station at noon and train B leaves at 1:00 PM...." or knowing the difference between their, there, and they're....   

I believe that a well managed company will have no need for a union.  You say you don't participate in the union because of RTW and the union is weak.  What would you expect from your union if your union was all powerful and could bring your employer to its knees?  I'll agree that spying on Union meetings is shady but I understand it as self preservation by the employer. There have been plenty of shady operations on both sides over the years.  When Sam Gompers etc were organizing things, there was a real need for something.  I have said before that 100 years ago I would have been a pro-union guy.  There was a time when unions provided the skilled labor by providing trade training.  Unskilled labor unions were just mass power.  Considering conditions in the late 19th Century, that was probably a good thing.  Now I see unions as just another big business designed to control another business.  Perhaps they still serve a purpose when the only impact an individual can have is negative, as in do a good job and you get no reward but screw up once and you're gone.  I fully recognize that many of my working conditions like a 40 hr standard work week are a result of early unions.   

And any bargaining power the company had would be pretty weak wouldn't it?

And shady is a pseudonym for ..coercive, bullyish, thuggish. It is weak defense to justify such behavior by noting that both sides have used such tactics in hte past.

I hope you never lose your office level status and have to go back to labor status. It has been an awakening for me. Some effort has been made on TV with a program that places owners/managers in low labor jobs within their own companies where they get an update on what effect their policies and procedures have on real people. I'm no union man, I just think both sides benefit from the balance of a more level playing field.

I don't understand why you would use the prhrase in context of Oklahoma's education problems. Historically studies show that we do not make as strong an investment in public school education as other states who are showing greater returns measured by accepted testing. Whether that is a function of the the rural nature of the state geograpically or mentally is not clear to me. It may be the result of a proliferation of school districts that forces too much money into administrative cost.

Or, more likely, it is the political/religious nature of the state that manifests itself in the phrase, "If I can't have her...nobody can. " IOW, if they insist on teaching our young'uns about sexual reproduction, gays, unions, communism, socialism ect. that differs from what we currently believe, then we're by God not going to fund such nonsense. In my gut I feel that is what's happening.

Instead they look towards private schools, charter schools, and home schooling where learning may be better controlled.

Never heard him say that. But no, we do know what was life in OK before RTW, we know what was promised with RTW (more jobs, better jobs, more corporations moving to the state) and we know what happened after RTW passed (more low skill phone center jobs, exit of high paying corporate jobs, higher unemployment).

That is revolutionary thinking. That just leaves PAC's doesn't it?

People use organizations to leverage their power. The NRA, the NOW, the ELCA, all use that leverage to influence government. I don't think that is wrong. Once you start picking and choosing which organizations should have the use of that leverage it gets dicey.

Nor did I intend to. It was tongue in cheek using the same sort of faulty logic that Spoiled Cabbage used. However, my statistical sample is the only one available as there are only 6 states that have enacted zero income tax who alse either did or did not enact RTW. I couldn't really fabricate any more to get a larger statistical sample could I?

Even when our state was primarily a Democratic leaning state, it was not the party that mattered it was the issues.

The power the employer has is the right to end your employment.
 

I do not believe that throwing money at the problem will fix it.  The attitude of parents, including the ones you list below, are more likely to be the problem.  The threshold of a few obvious things are money for books, buildings, teachers.  I believe that, in general, teachers deserve more pay but I won't pretend to know how much.

To imply that RTW caused low skill phone center jobs, exit of high paying corporate jobs, and higher unemployment without regard to the overall economic situation would be too simplistic.

If my employer choses to support a candidate I don't want, I am working to support a candidate I don't want.  If "my" Union supports a candidate I don't want, my dues (or whatever) are being used to support a candidate I don't want.   Both of these options involve my ability to put food on the table and a roof over my head.

If the Aircraft Owners and Pilot's Association (AOPA) supports a candidate I don't like, I can refuse to renew my membership.  Same for ASPCA, AARP, NRA, NOW.....  (I don't necessarily belong to the second batch of organizations)

You have lived in OK a lot longer than I have so I will bow to history somewhat.  What I did see when we moved here in 71 was an attitude of vote Democratic because they are Democrats.  I didn't see so much of the issues being what mattered.

He always has that power, just like the employee, without a contract, has the same power.  True.  I believe there are some complications but a contract employee is allowed to quit but generally the employer is generally not allowed to terminate a contract employee before the contract end conditions are met.

He may want to offer a more lucrative contract to those who agree to work for a specific period of time to recoup his investment. However, if you limit his ability to do that, just like a union in Oklahoma is prohibited from requiring those who didn't join the union from receiving the fruits of their negotiations...you weaken their position.

This is all about weakening labor by using the legislature to enact a law that the corporations themselves could not tolerate.

Hey, I was just stating what happened after RTW was passed. And it passed during a pretty good economy IIRC. Whether it was a spurrious correlation or causation I wouldn't know for sure. Would be a reasonable inference without any evidence to the contrary though.

Most young people do not know that students of our age actually had books paid for by the taxpayer that we took home each day to study.

They have no idea that poor behavior students now are often just considered ADD, and pushed off onto special needs buses and separate curriculum. If their parents have money they end up in private or parochial schools, if they don't they end up as drug addicts, thieves and prisoners. Instead, those younger generation people only see the result of the system and blame teachers and administrators.

I also doubt that raising teacher pay is the solution either though it is a good tactic for retaining good teachers but the system needs reformation. Reformation is expensive and that brings us back to status quo.

Too late for those sentiments. SCOTUS has already ruled that corporations are people and should have unlimited ability to support issues/candidates of their choice even if their employees don't agree. Of course you could always quit. If they are people, then Unions should be too.

Democrats in the depression were the friend of the farmer and laborer in Ok. We were founded as a progressive state (at the time). So many folks continuued their support of the party even when it stopped being much like them. The 1964 election was the last time a Democratic presidential candidate carried OK. That was the peak of the depression babies anti-business attitudes here. The economy surged, people no longer felt they needed the party to defend them and they switched to moral/religious issues as the base of their politics.

Then we had to spend a couple of decades cleaning up the corruption, incompetence and ignorance that having one party represent us so long had delivered to us.

I would object as well. Iand, I never eat pickles on the weekend.

Its nice outside and we both have yardwork to do. I'm mixing mine with a vodka and strawberry laced limeade. Ran out of beer. ;D

Here are two of those states that have no income tax that you think are doing well:

Nevada....12.9% unemployment rate ....#51 ranking...highest unemployment in the nation
Florida....9.9% unemployment rate....#45 ranking
In fact only 2 of the states without income tax (you didn't mention Tennessee #35, Alaska #21, New Hampshire #4) are in the top half of the states rankings of unemployment. Texas is at #25. This according to the Bureau of Labor statistics.

So, it looks like their zero income tax is about as helpful as Oklahoma's Right to Work laws. Which is to say...not.

I did all the yardwork I am going to do yesterday.  We had a limb break on a tree in front of the house, about a 10"er.  I grabbed a couple of my suburban necessities, a chainsaw and ladder, and chopped it the rest of the way off the tree and into manageable pieces.  Then I stacked the stuff next to the fence so when we get enough accumulated we can call the guy who takes it to the green waste dump.

I'm going flying, no alcohol until that's done.  I bought plenty of beer on Friday.  I'll eat an extra slice of pickle for you.  I hope you like Claussen Deli-Style Kosher Dill Spears.  It's as close as I have found to the pickles in a barrel in the local Deli when I was young.

I thought you were missing the third suburban necessity, then I read further you were going flying.  Great day for it.  Going to be awful windy tomorrow.

I haven't been flying in about four years.  I need to go, but it's financially counter-productive  ;D

I thought you were missing the third suburban necessity, then I read further you were going flying.  Great day for it.  Going to be awful windy tomorrow.

I need to go, but it's financially counter-productive  ;D

Kind of hard to draw a real correlation between lack of income tax and high unemployment using Nevada and Florida for examples.  One thing Florida and Nevada are sharing in common is a continued lull in tourism while the national unemployment average is staying at 8%+.  Another problem is they may have no income tax, but real estate in larger metro markets is still higher than it is in, say Tulsa or OKC.  As well, corporations are not real apt to want to relocate to union-heavy states.  Look at Boeing wanting to move or create jobs in South Carolina to avoid being under the thumb of unions.  The Japanese and Korean car makers have all located in right-to-work states as well.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think the lack of personal income tax is as much an incentive for business relocation than "quality jobs" type tax breaks, property tax breaks, or huge infrastructure incentives, or no corporate tax being charged for 5-10 years.

I thought Sauer chose the two worst examples of how zero income tax was working. His remarks symbolized to me how people don't think for themselves and are willing to believe the most outrageous things if it fits into their pre-conceived notions. Red probably thought the same thing about my remarks!Perhaps I unloaded a shotgun on a puppy.

I don't disagree with most of what you wrote. I am not too sure about your thought that business is afraid of unions. They simply are attracted to the lowest cost these days rather than the best solution. The Japanese manufacturers are better at integrating labor with decisionmaking. I doubt their workers would find much use for unions.

You have to ask yourself if Toyota would have considered OK even with RTW and a zero income tax. I think we have something about us that repels those kinds of companies.

Did you ever wonder why Alaska is not a RTW state?

We have gone through Japan, Taiwan, Viet Nam, Mexico, Phillipines, a myriad of other low labor countries and now China. As each economy starts to mature and labor costs rise we move to another one. One of the reasons we can do this is the low cost of transportation. When that starts to disappear it all changes.

I look forward to the time when simple solution companies run out of cheap labor and have to start managing again.

No idea, though I never realized they were so heavily unionized until I was looking up the Alaska Pipeline to get an idea of the real jobs to be created by Keystone XL.  Turns out every single pipleliner job was union.

What's your take on why Alaska is not RTW?

India is next.  I suspect we will see the industrialization of parts of Africa after that.  I really don't see your final sentence ever coming to fruition.  As labor moves to another region, it creates a depression elsewhere.  Labor costs or some other incentive must be offered to prevent long-term economic damage.

Alaska is intriguing. My guess is that much of it is now inhabited by the remains of pipeline workers.

We are in a rut. I don't think we have to stay there. Other countries pay their employees enough to support better quality products at higher prices. Mercedes are used as taxi cabs in other parts of the world. They are just another well built vehicle. Here we worship their status because of their price related to our income.

The Japanese and Korean car makers have all located in right-to-work states as well.

The wealthy British businessmen did the same in Orlando several years ago.

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Gov. Mary Fallin will urge lawmakers to consider a one-time tax cut with no offsetting loss of exemptions or deductions when the Legislature convenes on Feb. 4.

At a forum hosted by The Associated Press on Wednesday, Fallin said she will propose a permanent tax cut that she says will be "responsible" and lead to economic growth that will ultimately offset the lost revenue.

Fallin declined to say how much of a cut she will propose, adding that the details will be outlined in her State of the State address to lawmakers on the opening day of session.

Fallin says her plan will not include automatic triggers to further reduce the income tax rate if certain revenue conditions are met.

Oklahoma's top income tax rate is currently 5.25 percent.

This is good news. The tax cut will be off-set by growth in the economy and that will bring in more money to the state. Economics 101 works every time.

Many people are unhappy with the proposed tax cut.  As a protest they are encouraged to write a check for the difference and send it on in.

This is good news. The tax cut will be off-set by growth in the economy and that will bring in more money to the state. Economics 101 works every time.

This is good news. The tax cut will be off-set by growth in the economy and that will bring in more money to the state. Economics 101 works every time.

Come on, you know that a giant tax hike is the only thing that produces economic growth.

It doen't pass the liberal test.  WWKD?

Come on, you know that a giant tax hike is the only thing that produces economic growth.

Raise taxes. . .?. . .Economic Growth

Tax cuts when you can't afford to run the state properly isn't the answer. 

Maybe she and the state legislature could admit to incompetence and make room for people who skip the religion craze and work on effective education.

Hmm.  I see increasing economic growth in Oklahoma.  In fact we are #6 of 50 (or 57) for states with the best employment, and continue to creep up the list.  Our state is becoming more attractive for investment, and companies are relocating here.  With economic growth, increased employment, and jobs that produce higher incomes, you get revenue growth.  With revenue growth comes all of those wonderful programs you like.

When the companies move in due to lower taxes and better deals they have to bring their own educated workforce.

We can pay companies to move here all we want.  If we don't educate our kids, we do little for our state.

Small pictures are easy.

When the companies move in due to lower taxes and better deals they have to bring their own educated workforce.

We can pay companies to move here all we want.  If we don't educate our kids, we do little for our state.

Small pictures are easy.

Our current per year expenditure per pupil is a little under $8,000.  The state takes in about $5,000 in revenue per pupil.  That is quite a revenue gap.  An average classroom of 20 students requires $160,000 to run, with most of that going to administrative and facilities expenses.  When that one class graduates, the state has spent $2,080,000 to educate them.  The cost for a public school education is very close to the cost of a private school education now, but the quality has not increased.  That would lead one to believe that money may not be the problem.

How about demand?  How about more companies working with educators to produce future employees?  I know of many companies that already do this.  Perhaps attracting more is not a bad idea?

You really need to learn to link your posts.

Sorry,  I forget you don't use the Google.

Hmm.  I see increasing economic growth in Oklahoma.  In fact we are #6 of 50 (or 57) for states with the best employment, and continue to creep up the list.  Our state is becoming more attractive for investment, and companies are relocating here.  With economic growth, increased employment, and jobs that produce higher incomes, you get revenue growth.  With revenue growth comes all of those wonderful programs you like.

This tax cut will spur the Oklahoma economy even more. Drawing in more jobs and dropping our states unemployment rate. Anyone who does not agree with Mary Fallin on this tax cut is welcome to send  a check to the state government as a form of protest as was mentioned in one of the above posts. So it's a win-win for everyone. Tax cuts help the economy and  tax increases hurt and choke the economy as we can all see from Obama and the grim shape of the national economy the higher Obama raises taxes the worse everything gets. There is no such thing as taxing yourself to prosperity.

Soliciting money like this makes you a bit of a prostitute, Mary.

This tax cut will spur the Oklahoma economy even more. Drawing in more jobs and dropping our states unemployment rate. Anyone who does not agree with Mary Fallin on this tax cut is welcome to send  a check to the state government as a form of protest as was mentioned in one of the above posts. So it's a win-win for everyone. Tax cuts help the economy and  tax increases hurt and choke the economy as we can all see from Obama and the grim shape of the national economy the higher Obama raises taxes the worse everything gets. There is no such thing as taxing yourself to prosperity.

When the companies move in due to lower taxes and better deals they have to bring their own educated workforce.

When the companies move in due to lower taxes and better deals they have to bring their own educated workforce.

We can pay companies to move here all we want.  If we don't educate our kids, we do little for our state.

Small pictures are easy.

Can you source that?

Towney, these are your people.  Don't forsake them.

Source what?

they have to bring their own educated workforce

I would like to see a source for

I would like to see a source for

When the companies move in due to lower taxes and better deals they have to bring their own educated workforce.

There are articles all over the interwebs

You really need to learn to link your posts.

Got it.

Doesn't apply to you.   I'm glad you cleared that up.

Did you try to read my post?

I can type it slower but I think you might be trying to misunderstand.

*Dumbassed attempt at humor posted here*

"We've got to stop being the stupid party. It's time for a new Republican Party that talks like adults," he said. "We had a number of Republicans damage the brand this year with offensive and bizarre comments. I'm here to say we've had enough of that."

It's not worth it for you to try.

He forgot the pretty blue type...

Did you try to read my post?

I can type it slower but I think you might be trying to misunderstand.

When the companies move in due to lower taxes and better deals they have to bring their own educated workforce.

We can pay companies to move here all we want.

If we don't educate our kids, we do little for our state.

Small pictures are easy.

From the post where I started to reply.  (Yes, I skip most of your posts where you are just being a shill for the DNC.)
That statement looks to be present tense to me.
 
Grammar issues aside, it depends on the industry.   Bring in some aerospace or oil related business to Tulsa and we are pretty much in good shape.  Bring in a textile mill and we might not be so prepared.  Bring in a retailer and they will probably train people to run cash registers and stock shelves.  Bring in a railroad car building company and they will probably train the welders and machine operators in the industry specifics.
This statement is not a prerequisite for the following statement.
True even as a stand-alone statement.
Space filler.

I hope I typed slowly enough for you. 

From the post where I started to reply.  (Yes, I skip most of your posts where you are just being a shill for the DNC.)
That statement looks to be present tense to me.
 
Grammar issues aside, it depends on the industry.   Bring in some aerospace or oil related business to Tulsa and we are pretty much in good shape.  Bring in a textile mill and we might not be so prepared.  Bring in a retailer and they will probably train people to run cash registers and stock shelves.  Bring in a railroad car building company and they will probably train the welders and machine operators in the industry specifics.
This statement is not a prerequisite for the following statement.
True even as a stand-alone statement.
Space filler.

I hope I typed slowly enough for you. 

Just move on.  This is going to be a 6th grade Hoss n' Towneyfest.

Just move on.  This is going to be a 6th grade Hoss n' Towneyfest.

I was hoping for at least High School but it appears you are correct.

Looks like we've got a lovely couple here today.

You and Hoss

Guys, why don't you start a personal trolling thread and troll each other there instead of mucking up topics with page after page of insults?

Eh, it's something to do.  We won't make any headway on this topic anyway.

You can go over to that Miscellaneous thread I started a long time ago....perfect place for slinging stuff....

Anything new on this whole Mary Fallin thing?

Nope.  She's still an idiot.  No improvement in sight.

I would like to see a source for

That would be beyond your ability to cope.

That's right. I thought that was understood.

I know I do not understand why Hoss ties his wagon to you so much. Good to see others are picking up on it though.  :P

That's right. I thought that was understood.

Hey, I have Southy...you've got your sleepover buddy, BB....

Oklahoma ranks low in financial stability

The recession’s lingering effects have taken an enormous toll on Oklahoma families, as more than two in five state residents have almost no savings for an emergency, according to a report released Wednesday by the national nonprofit Corporation for Enterprise Development. The 2013 Assets & Opportunity Scorecard ranks Oklahoma 32nd for the financial stability of its residents, up one notch from 33rd last year. The scorecard offers a comprehensive look at Americans’ ability to save and build wealth, fend off poverty and create a more prosperous future. It evaluates all 50 states and the District of Columbia on how their residents fare in terms of achieving financial security across 53 measures in five areas.

Major tax overhauls are on the agenda in a record number of states, and “Who Pays?” documents in state-by-state detail the precise distribution of state income taxes, sales and excise taxes and property taxes paid by each income group as of January 2013.  It is a critical baseline against which future proposals can be measured.

Most significantly, the report concludes that all states have regressive tax systems that ask more from low- and middle-income families than from the wealthiest.  It also finds:

- The average overall effective state and local tax rates by income group nationwide are 11.1 percent for the bottom 20 percent, 9.4 percent for the middle 20 percent and 5.6 percent for the top 1 percent

- Ten states with the most regressive tax systems are: Washington, Florida, South Dakota, Texas, Illinois, Tennessee, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Alabama and Indiana.

- States praised as “low tax” are often high tax states for low and middle income families.

Fallin is correct, the growth of the economy will more than off-set any tax cuts. We really need to get rid of the state income tax totally. I heard the state of Kansas is thinking on getting rid of their state income tax. If they do that, Oklahoma will be stuck between two states with no income tax Kansas & Texas... Tax cuts help the economy ~ tax increases hurt the economy.

You just can't quite seem to get your head to work correctly, can you?

Whoa Nelly, huh?

He said;
Fallin is correct, the growth of the economy will more than off-set any tax cuts. We really need to get rid of the state income tax totally. I heard the state of Kansas is thinking on getting rid of their state income tax. If they do that, Oklahoma will be stuck between two states with no income tax Kansas & Texas... Tax cuts help the economy ~ tax increases hurt the economy.


When the sum total of reality on this planet has shown that there is no such thing as that first statement - it does not happen.  Doesn't happen on a Federal level, doesn't happen on a state level.  Without additional actions that actually end up raising the taxes previously reduced.

Now, in his universe, where his head may actually be working correctly, that may not be, but in this one....tax cuts can help the economy, but when you have roads that are falling apart, education that is being cut by over $100 million (with the $13 million 'make-up' money from casinos), prisons overloaded by double digit percentages, the capital building crumbling to dust, state employees who haven't had a raise in what - 6 years or so, etc, etc....they don't help the economy.

We also know for a fact that the states that don't have an income tax, compensate by raising other taxes, in particular property taxes - and in the case of Texas, disproportionally WAY more than the unavailable income taxes.  He has been told this repeatedly.  He could actually "lift a finger" to inform himself and become educated on the topic.  But no, he chooses to stay in that place where his head doesn't work correctly.

And hey, we're doing just fine with schools near the bottom, roads falling apart, prisons skirting close to the point where a Federal lawsuit is gonna reach out and touch someone...again.  And who cares if state employees never get a raise - there just a bunch of lazy slobs, anyway, aren't they...not worth the money we pay them now....

And the capital building - well, it's ok.  Nobody really expects much from us anyway, now, do they?

Make sense now?

You just can't quite seem to get your head to work correctly, can you?

Ya mean like Obama's economy? Obama is  raising taxes more and more and the economy is choking because of it... You Never  raise taxes in a recession. Taxes need to be cut, we are not under taxed, the government is spending too much. The national economy could be fixed real fast and easy-  the national  unemployment rate which just increased to 7.9% last month  could be slashed easy by getting rid of the choking regulations on business and cut taxes, encourage growth not punish growth. How fair is it that half the population pay zero taxes and still get a EIC tax refund? That needs to stop.. The government is the problem. Ronald Reagan nailed it when he said "Government that governs the least, governs the best" Get governemt  off people's backs and let people keep more of what they earn. Don't punish investments. The EPA should be done away with too, Let the states do the EPA's job. Mary Fallin has Oklahoma's economy strong with a unemployment rate of 5% by doing things right. Obama has the national economy in shambles by doing everything wrong, Obama is using old tired policys that always failed in the past, Remember  Jimmy Carter's economy? That's why the national unemployment rate is so high, and the real U-6 unemployment rate is around 15%...Gasoline is high because we can't drill. Obama is destroying our nations economy..

Oklahoma has been in a five year drought thanks to Barack Obama.

I have it on good authority he killed Kenny too.

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/POLITICS/05/23/obama.ireland/t1larg.obama.kenny.gi.afp.jpg)

Ya mean like Obama's economy? Obama is  raising taxes more and more and the economy is choking because of it... You Never  raise taxes in a recession. Taxes need to be cut, we are not under taxed, the government is spending too much. The national economy could be fixed real fast and easy-  the national  unemployment rate which just increased to 7.9% last month  could be slashed easy by getting rid of the choking regulations on business and cut taxes, encourage growth not punish growth. How fair is it that half the population pay zero taxes and still get a EIC tax refund? That needs to stop.. The government is the problem. Ronald Reagan nailed it when he said "Government that governs the least, governs the best" Get governemt  off people's backs and let people keep more of what they earn. Don't punish investments. The EPA should be done away with too, Let the states do the EPA's job. Mary Fallin has Oklahoma's economy strong with a unemployment rate of 5% by doing things right. Obama has the national economy in shambles by doing everything wrong, Obama is using old tired policys that always failed in the past, Remember  Jimmy Carter's economy? That's why the national unemployment rate is so high, and the real U-6 unemployment rate is around 15%...Gasoline is high because we can't drill. Obama is destroying our nations economy..

The basketball teams for Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are also ranked thanks to Mary Fallin. Downtown Tulsa is getting two new BBQ joints and a new sandwich shop thanks to Mary Fallin. A Sapulpa cop made the TV show "The Biggest Loser" thanks to Mary Fallin.

Oklahoma has been in a five year drought thanks to Barack Obama.

Educate me professor. Show me a policy that Mary Fallin implemented and show me the direct result that caused our economy to flourish that wasn't done by some other state.

Fallin is said to be responsible for closing the smoke hole in the Capital and making it a workout room.

If that's true, I support it.

I just look for who is in charge now, and that's who gets the credit my pupil.

Ronald Reagan cleaned up the mess Jimmy Carter gave him in 1981. Jimmy Carter like Obama had the economy in shambles. In a few months Reagan had our economy roaring back to life.

Do you ever leave the house, or watch anything other than Fox??  Again, just curious....

He's out-crazying FOX news.

I'd appreciate it if he'd have one of his care givers look over what he types before he's allowed to post.

And there he is....  Have you called Hoss yet?   ;D

Hmmmmm, We are facing a budget shortfall, (lightbulb), I got an idea! Let's cut taxes and then maybe we will become debt free. Hey wait a minute...

I do not understand why so many Oklahomans fall for this time after time. These people who want taxes cut are the same people who complain that the country is in debt. We must come up with a real solution, not one that will get somebody elected again in 2012, or 2014.

You thinking about it with one free hand?

Creepy.

Oh I'M creepy.  ::)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-m98Y-rNnEc0/TjHch_dKfDI/AAAAAAAAIOU/6AIqcdC9sbI/s1600/chickenhateyou.jpg)

A legislative panel rang the death knell Monday on a lawmaker’s seven-year crusade to scrutinize business tax credits by rejecting a bill that targeted 32 credits to pass legislative muster to continue. “The lobbyists win,” state Rep. David Dank said after the House of Representatives Subcommittee on revenue and taxation voted 10-3 to not advance House Bill 1371. “They continue to win. “The legislators do not have the will to look at the multimillions of dollars that are being given away in tax credits and determine which ones are benefiting the state and which ones aren’t,” he said. Dank, R-Oklahoma City, said his bill’s defeat also cripples efforts to significantly reduce the state’s personal income tax rate.

If you buy something in Oklahoma, the government is going to take a bigger bite than just about anywhere else in the nation, according to a Monday report from the Tax Foundation. The average combined state and local sales tax rate in Oklahoma is the fifth highest in the nation. Oklahoma’s 4.5 percent state sales tax is lower than that of any of the surrounding states. Texas, which has no state income tax, has a 6.25 percent state sales tax. But the relatively high local sales tax rates in the Oklahoma — averaging 4.17 percent — push the state into the top combined levels. Only four states — Louisiana, Colorado, New York and Alabama — have higher average local sales tax rates than Oklahoma.

House panel votes down measure to review tax credits

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-house-panel-votes-down-measure-to-review-tax-credits/article/3754483 (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-house-panel-votes-down-measure-to-review-tax-credits/article/3754483)

Report: Oklahoma 5th highest in U.S. in sales tax rates

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20130212_16_A7_OKLAHO777921 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20130212_16_A7_OKLAHO777921)

And some people complain when Mary Fallin wants to cut taxes.

She's attempting to cut different taxes.

Good articles. And some people complain when Mary Fallin wants to cut taxes. We still have high taxes- The problem is gov't spending. Taxes need to be cut  across the board.

OKLAHOMA CITY – Gov. Mary Fallin’s legal counsel told the Council of State Governments  that Oklahoma will rebuff anticipated federal funds for implementation of criminal justice reform legislation passed in recent years.

Fallin supported legislative passage of the 2011-2012 “justice reinvestment” measures, designed to shift Oklahoma away from incarceration of nonviolent offenders and toward alternatives to imprisonment.

The program to move Oklahoma away from its “first-in-the-nation” levels of imprisonment was modeled in part on successful efforts in Texas, and advocated by the national “Right on Crime” group based in the Lone Star State.

After the governor signed the historic legislation, her office joined a process to secure several hundred thousand dollars for the state, in the form of one-time money from the federal Bureau of Justice Assistance. That effort was coordinated through the Council of State Governments, to finance training for law enforcement and criminal justice system personnel.

In a reversal, Fallin’s attorney last week told members of a group working on implementation of the new laws that she will forego the assistance.

Watchdog.org obtained the correspondence from members of the group of officials who have worked on implementation of the legislation since last summer.

At the moment, there is no money in the state pipeline to implement the new law, although the governor may be seeking additional appropriations to replace the federal assistanc.

In a Feb. 21 letter copied to members of the Oklahoma Justice Reinvestment Core Work Group, Rebecca R. Frazier, deputy general counsel for Fallin, told Elizabeth Lyon, state initiatives program director for CSG, “(I)t has been determined that the need for extensive additional financial support will not be needed to fund training efforts to implement Oklahoma’s Justice Reform and Reinvestment initiative. For example, due to the excellent leadership by Oklahoma’s Attorney General and the District Attorney’s Council, it was determined that these state partners would be able to train for full implementation using available resources.”

“Due to the apparent need for only modest financial resources to achieve appropriate competence for full implementation of Oklahoma’s Justice Reform and Reinvestment initiative the Governor would prefer to pay for executive branch training needs out of state budget assets,” Lyon wrote. “Please remove the requests for funding for the Department of Mental Health and Department of Corrections. Oklahoma will self-fund those important training programs.”

In her Feb. 21 letter to Lyon, Frazier said that “in October 2012, in anticipation of the need for extensive additional financial support to fund training for multiple state entities to (ensure) full implement the Justice Reform and Reinvestment initiative, Governor Fallin wrote to the Bureau of Justice Assistance (BJA) requesting favorable consideration of an expected funding request by the Council of State Governments.”

Lyon had written members of the “core work group”, including Frazier, on Feb. 20 detailing the process she had assisted, intended to model state policies on “the best practices for policy implementation to increase public safety and to best position Oklahoma for successful implementation.”

Lyon noted in her Feb. 20 letter that the governor’s office had provided initial approval for the grant submission to CSG on Jan. 14.

Two bills that call for cutting Oklahoma's top personal income tax rate won easy approval Monday evening in a legislative committee.

The House of Representatives Appropriations and Budget Committee voted 17-5 to pass House Bill 1598, which would drop the top personal income tax rate from 5.25 percent to 4.99 percent.

Committee Chairman Scott Martin, R-Norman, said the reduction would cost the state about $47 million in revenue for the 2014 fiscal year, which begins July 1, and about $121 million in future years when fully implemented.
 Personal income taxes are projected to bring in about $2.1 billion of the legislatively appropriated $7 billion budget for the 2014 fiscal year.

The committee also passed HB 2032, by House Speaker T.W. Shannon, R-Lawton, which would drop the personal income tax rate to 5 percent. It passed 18-5.

All the Democrats on the committee voted against both proposals, with Reps. Joe Dorman, D-Rush Springs, and Eric Proctor, D-Tulsa, saying the loss of revenue would hurt core state functions, such as public safety, education and roads.

Martin said the tax cuts would stimulate economic development by attracting industries.

Both bills advance to the House Calendar Committee, which will determine whether they will get a hearing on the House floor.

Last year, Kansas did what Oklahoma talked about. It slashed personal income tax rates, from a top bracket of 6.45 percent to 4.9 percent, and eliminated income taxes altogether for nearly 200,000 farms and businesses. Kansas’ bold step was part of a broader attack against the income tax. For Kansas, the immediate result of income tax reform has been a $700 million hit to a $6 billion general fund, which projects out to a revenue loss of $2.5 billion through 2018. In January, Bloomberg reported Kansas’ uncertain budget outlook had hurt its standing in the bond markets.

Kansas tax cuts raise budget concerns
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20130304_16_A1_CUTLIN737290 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20130304_16_A1_CUTLIN737290)
which projects out to a revenue loss of $2.5 billion through 2018.

The relentless push to shrink government and cut taxes could trigger tuition hikes and mean less state money for a program that provides aviation companies with work-ready employees. Competing versions of budget cuts from the House and Senate both include reductions in state aid for universities, a move that could add to ever-increasing tuition rates. Meanwhile, the National Center for Aviation Training in Wichita, essentially a tech college built primarily by Sedgwick County to produce work-ready employees for aircraft manufacturers, is poised to lose $2 million of the $5 million it has become accustomed to receiving from the state. Those cuts also would pluck $2 million each in funding from cancer research at the University of Kansas and animal health research at Kansas State University.

A budget summit in Oklahoma City hosted by the Oklahoma Policy Institute gives a bleak outlook for the state's short-term and long-term budgets.

Anew legislative session begins in just over two weeks. Lawmakers will head back to the capitol facing a $170 million budget shortfall. Oklahoma Policy Institute Director David Blatt hopes the summit paints a clear picture of what that shortfall and the policies that lead to it mean for the state.

"In particular, what challenges are ahead of us and what might be the most sensible approaches for trying to manage what are looking to be another round of tough budget times," Blatt said.

The good news is Oklahomans pay one of America's lowest total tax rates: $8.41 for every $100 earned. But that's also bad news.

The rates were already low when they were cut, and the cuts cost the state billions of dollars in revenue since 2004. Blatt said fixing the problems caused by those cuts and other policies will be a marathon, not a sprint.

"And we'll never entirely get to the finish line as far as coming up with the right mix of taxes and the right programs, but the approach we've taken over the last several years as been very one-sided," he said.

Other than income tax cuts, problems summit speakers said need to be addressed include too-generous tax breaks for oil and gas producers, an outdated sales tax and inflexible spending rules.

The state faces a structural deficit. That means the state's normal revenue growth can't keep up with expected spending increases. Revenue also hasn't returned to pre-recession levels.

Summit Gives Bleak Outlook on Oklahoma Budget

http://kwgs.com/post/summit-gives-bleak-outlook-oklahoma-budget (http://kwgs.com/post/summit-gives-bleak-outlook-oklahoma-budget)

 Whats wrong with these RHINOS?  Why can't they keep the expected increases down in line with revenue growth?  Think we need to throw these lackeys out and get some real Republicans in there.  We need to cut big state government and state taxes and return more control of the purse strings and decision making powers to the local municipalities.  I don't want people way over there in OKC feeding off our tax dollars to build bureaucracy jobs there and then telling us Tulsan's what to do with what's left of our money.  I think we can better decide how to spend our money on education, roads, healthcare etc. than someone way down the pike.

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Republican Governor Mary Fallin says she'll outline plans for what she calls an affordable income tax cut during next month's State of the State speech, despite a projected $170 million revenue shortfall next fiscal year.

Fallin said Wednesday the details are still being worked out, but will be included in her executive budget presented to lawmakers on February 3rd at the start of the legislative session.

The governor must present a balanced budget to lawmakers based on about $6.96 billion in revenues the state is expected to collect next fiscal year.

An agreement among GOP leaders last year to cut income taxes from 5.25 percent to 5 percent was thrown out by the Oklahoma Supreme Court for violating a state constitution ban on having multiple subjects in a bill.

http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/147-the-stillborn-state-of-sequoyah (http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/147-the-stillborn-state-of-sequoyah)

50+ counties!!??  What a nightmare that would be....

Gotta remember, when all this went down, the US was just barely over the practice of offering bounties for the proof of death of a Native American...and the name Sequoyah probably was too unpalatable, especially since it represented a man who was instrumental in the education of Native people...

From the article:
"In 1866, the Indian Territory was roughly halved when the US government forced new treaties on the tribes living there."

What crushed the tribes is when they (or at least some, not sure on all tribes) sided with the South in the Civil War.  Prior to that they had very good (if tenuous) relations with Washington.  All bets were off after the war, and the Union didn't waste much time in forcing new treaties and taking away half the state.  It was downhill from there.

It was downhill since about 1492 or so....

Well, yeah, Ok.  You have a point there.   :)

But there were good relations between the five tribes and Washington prior to the war, and if you look at the immediate history before,during, and after the Civil War, it's clear that the allegiance of some of the tribes to the Confederacy allowed the Federal Govt to force new reconstruction treaties on the tribes, which resulted in the halving of the Nations and further political division.  If the tribes had held all of what is now OK, it would have meant only one Western state entering instead of two, and that may have changed the outcome.

A new poll shows falling voter support for Oklahoma personal income tax cuts.

Approval of income tax cuts fell from 52 to 46 percent. When surveyed voters were asked if they approve of cuts an analysis says would largely benefit the top 1 percent of Oklahoma households, less than one-third did.

"There really is nobody at this point, no constituency out there clamoring for tax cuts," said Oklahoma Policy Institute Executive Director David Blatt. "At the same time, you have a legislature that still seems hell-bent on passing a tax cut whether anybody's asking for one or not."

Tax cut support among voters is even lower when asked which public services they favor cutting to support lower income taxes.

The poll also asked voters whether an educated and well-trained workforce or low personal income tax rates were more important to economic growth in the state.

"People understand that it's an educated and well-trained workforce," Blatt said. "Seventy-four percent responded that an educated workforce is what's needed to create economic growth, compared to 17 percent who said low personal income tax rates."

The poll of 610 registered Oklahoma voters was conducted earlier this month by Washington, D.C.-based Global Strategy Group.

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma's finance secretary says collections by the general revenue fund fell 9.1 percent below the official estimate in March.

Secretary of Finance Preston Doerflinger said Tuesday the state experienced another month of unusually low corporate income tax revenue. Doerflinger says that the decline followed a major increase in tax credit claims.

March collections totaled $413 million, which is $41 million, or 9.1 percent, below the official revenue estimate upon which the fiscal year's state budget is based.

Doerflinger says March's weak collections rekindled the possibility of mandatory cuts for all state agencies for the budget year that ends on June 30.

Collections totaled $3.9 billion during the first three quarters of the current fiscal year. That's $215 million, or 5.2 percent, below the official estimate for the nine-month period.

Oklahoma voters also overwhelmingly support medical marijuana and a bit over half support decriminalization, but what are the chances of any action on that in the legislature? The people's opinion seems to be completely irrelevant to most of our state officials, elected or not.

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Legislation that would trim Oklahoma's personal income tax rate when state revenue increases has been approved by the state House.

House members voted 54-40 for the Senate-passed measure that is one of Republican Gov. Mary Fallin's top goals for the 2014 Legislature. It now goes to Fallin to be signed into law.

The measure will reduce the personal income tax rate from 5.25 percent to 5 percent in 2016 if state revenue projections are greater than projections in December 2014.

If growth continues, then a second reduction will take place lowering the rate from 5 percent to 4.85 percent no sooner than two years after the 5 percent rate is enacted, providing that there is sufficient revenue to cover the cost of the reduction.

Oklahoma’s poverty rate dips slightly but remains in the bottom third nationally.

Today, 16.8 percent of Oklahomans live in poverty, down from 17.2 percent last year. Rachel West with the Center for American Progress said the fastest way to lift families out of poverty is raising the minimum wage.

"Fifty-seven percent of total family income in minimum wage earners' families actually comes from that minimum wage job," West said. "So these are not teenagers that are working these jobs. This is a very real issue for families."

And though the state’s poverty rate is down a little, high racial disparities remain.

While about one in six Oklahomans live in poverty, one in four of the state’s Latinos and one in three black Oklahomans do. West said starting with children is the ideal way to address disparities.

"In that regard, I think raising parents' earnings but also investing heavily in education are smart policy options for eradicating this differential in the future," West said.

West said Oklahoma’s universal pre-K program is a wise investment, as educational attainment is tied to poverty reduction.

The nation’s lowest poverty rate is eight-point-seven percent in New Hampshire. The poverty line is just under $24,000 for a family of four.

Your views are too simple. Taxes don't simply kill jobs. Tax cuts don't simply create jobs.

I fear the world is a little more complex than you can handle.

I don't favor legalized pot, we have enough people in public who have foggy brains,

If you were founded in America and the vast majority of all your locations, customers and sales are in America, you should be paying taxes in America.

I consider what Burger King is doing to be treason. Because they don't want to pay their share, others like me will have to pay more.

I will no longer eat at their restaurants. Their food sucked anyway.

You can make them tax heroes and eat there three times a day for all I care.  

Maybe if Obama cut taxes Burger King would be staying and it would help draw in more companies form overseas, instead of companies leaving the USA they would be coming here. Talk about treason, High taxes are not what our founders wanted. I used to work at a company called "KeyStone Columbia in Warren, Michigan back in the 1970's they made electrical boxes, panels and wireways it was a union shop, they moved across the state line to Freemont Indiana in the far north eastern corner of the state, just south of the  Michigan state line the reason for the move was the high taxes in Michigan and regulations and this was way back  in the 1970's. Michigan was run by democrats for decades and look at the result it's no paradise. Obama wants to make our whole country just like Michigan and companies won't have any place (or other states) to move to except overseas. Obama's policys chase jobs away..

Obama's policys chase jobs away..

It's also been proven that trickle-down doesn't work.

It's also been proven that trickle-down doesn't work.

Maybe if Obama cut taxes Burger King would be staying and it would help draw in more companies form overseas,

The last 8 to 12 years most Republicans wouldn't even have to run any ads.

Haha...Mattress Mary must be getting nervous about poll numbers; I just saw a smear ad from her camp about Dorman on TV just now.  The last 8 to 12 years most Republicans wouldn't even have to run any ads.

About like Democrats for local/state elections 40 yrs ago.  Good old days for some of you.

40 years ago touting your partisanship wasn't so much a badge as it is now, from my limited recollection.

But if I know you, I'm sure it was.  In your opinion, which is always accurate.   ::)

Which policies specifically?

Here's two Obama policies-  EPA regulations for C02 emissions (a natural gas) that we all breath out is now listed as "dangerous" or "toxic" by the EPA - that  policy  discourages companies from coming to the USA from overseas. The cost to industry over that CO2 emissions is huge- another policy is the 35% corp. income tax rate one of the highest in the world, in Ireland the corp. tax rate is only 11%. Many  "T" party Canadates  would like to do away with the federal  corporation  income tax totally, if so think of all the jobs that would bring to the USA, or at least cut the tax rate in half.... It's not hard to fix this economy just get gov't off our backs and out of the way. Obama is taxing and spending us  into bigger & bigger debt that our grand children will end up paying for. He always needs to raise the debt ceiling. There is no budget either. it's pretty grim.

Here's two Obama policies-  EPA regulations for C02 emissions (a natural gas) that we all breath out is now listed as "dangerous" or "toxic" by the EPA - that  policy  discourages companies from coming to the USA from overseas. The cost to industry over that CO2 emissions is huge- another policy is the 35% corp. income tax rate one of the highest in the world, in Ireland the corp. tax rate is only 11%. Many  "T" party Canadates  would like to do away with the federal  corporation  income tax totally, if so think of all the jobs that would bring to the USA, or at least cut the tax rate in half.... It's not hard to fix this economy just get gov't off our backs and out of the way. Obama is taxing and spending us  into bigger & bigger debt that our grand children will end up paying for. He always needs to raise the debt ceiling. There is no budget either. it's pretty grim.

C'mon man, support your crazy.  Get some links in there to prove what you spew.

Here's two Obama policies-  EPA regulations for C02 emissions (a natural gas) that we all breath out is now listed as "dangerous" or "toxic" by the EPA - that  policy  discourages companies from coming to the USA from overseas. The cost to industry over that CO2 emissions is huge- another policy is the 35% corp. income tax rate one of the highest in the world, in Ireland the corp. tax rate is only 11%. Many  "T" party Canadates  would like to do away with the federal  corporation  income tax totally, if so think of all the jobs that would bring to the USA, or at least cut the tax rate in half.... It's not hard to fix this economy just get gov't off our backs and out of the way. Obama is taxing and spending us  into bigger & bigger debt that our grand children will end up paying for. He always needs to raise the debt ceiling. There is no budget either. it's pretty grim.

It's official, Obama is the best economic president of the modern era, beating even Reagan. - Forbes.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2014/09/05/obama-outperforms-reagan-on-jobs-growth-and-investing/

Already been tried and beat down:

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=20729.0

Hartung’s most glaring mistake was trying to claim Reagan was the champion job creator in the modern era.  That honor goes to Bill Clinton.

And Hartung gets beat down, point-by-point here, not that I expect you will read it:

 http://www.investing.com/analysis/economic-growth:-obama-vs.-reagan-225151

Here's two Obama policies-  EPA regulations for C02 emissions (a natural gas) that we all breath out is now listed as "dangerous" or "toxic" by the EPA - that  policy  discourages companies from coming to the USA from overseas. The cost to industry over that CO2 emissions is huge- another policy is the 35% corp. income tax rate one of the highest in the world, in Ireland the corp. tax rate is only 11%. Many  "T" party Canadates  would like to do away with the federal  corporation  income tax totally, if so think of all the jobs that would bring to the USA, or at least cut the tax rate in half.... It's not hard to fix this economy just get gov't off our backs and out of the way. Obama is taxing and spending us  into bigger & bigger debt that our grand children will end up paying for. He always needs to raise the debt ceiling. There is no budget either. it's pretty grim.

Again....

Are you really so stupid as to have missed the fact of the tax cuts that Obama and Congress passed in 2009??  The largest tax cuts in the history of the country. - that benefited everyone. Oh, wait....

Really...you repeatedly admit you don't pay attention to even minor topics, the spew blathering nonsense regardless....you sound just like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.  Surprise, surprise...

Oh, and let's not forget the fact that under Obama, the deficit has decreased every year in office - by large numbers - as compared to the increases every year in office by Baby Bush - by very large numbers.  Reality must really make your head itch....


As for Ireland, well, once again, you take the intellectually lazy path to come up with stupid stuff.  In fact - 10% is the manufacturing company tax rate - sort of, depending on how long in business and have been at a set of rates - 12.5% otherwise.  While trading income rate is 12.5%.  And non-trading income rate is 25%.  And the existing set of rules came about in the early 2000's.  Since that time, Ireland has still struggled economically...they are not "booming" like they would hope.

And as always, with type of spewed nonsense, you offer no rationale alternate...just like Limbaugh and Hannity!  Still, I guess that's no surprise, seeing where you get all your "information".  I bet you will be quoting Matt Drudge next!!

You’d get further with this against your forehead

(http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/6/0/0/140600_v2.jpg)

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.
I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.

I lot of people agree with me when they have been drinking.

I'll tell ya what if we still had Governor Henry in Oklahoma our taxes would be higher and companies and their jobs would still be fleeing to Texas, our unemployment rate would be 7% or 8% and Macys would be building their new warehouse in another state. It is what it is. Gov. Henry did nothing to encourage companies to come to Oklahoma.

I'll tell ya what if we still had Governor Henry in Oklahoma our taxes would be higher and companies and their jobs would still be fleeing to Texas, our unemployment rate would be 7% or 8% and Macys would be building their new warehouse in another state. It is what it is. Gov. Henry did nothing to encourage companies to come to Oklahoma.

She could have done better, but she definitely could have done worse.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LASST400000000000003

 

Mary Fallin is doing an outstanding job as governor it must be remembered she is fighting a uphill battle against the feds and Obama, it's hard for a state to make gains when the federal gov't  has you in a choke hold. The U-6 true unemployment rate nation-wide under Obama is sky high around 14%, yet here in Oklahoma we're at or around  3%. Our governor wants to slash our state income tax more for an even stronger economy. The government that governs the least governs the best..  It must be remembered that under Henry  he had a strong national economy helping him  because we had  President Bush, remember  gasoline was $1.70 a gallon under Bush and  fuel costs were low the national unemployment rate was around 5%. Today the national economy under Obama is in shambles, ObamaCare is costing more jobs, The NATIONAL price for gasoline has not dropped below $3.00 a gallon since Obama came to power, high fuel costs hurt the  economy. Obama's war on oil, coal, and the Keystone pipleine all work against us here in Oklahoma, but even when the odds stacked against us the Governor is doing a good job keeping our economy growing.

Mary Fallin is doing an outstanding job as governor it must be remembered she is fighting a uphill battle against the feds and Obama, it's hard for a state to make gains when the federal gov't  has you in a choke hold. The U-6 true unemployment rate nation-wide under Obama is sky high around 14%, yet here in Oklahoma we're at or around  3%. Our governor wants to slash our state income tax more for an even stronger economy. The government that governs the least governs the best..  It must be remembered that under Henry  he had a strong national economy helping him  because we had  President Bush, remember  gasoline was $1.70 a gallon under Bush and  fuel costs were low the national unemployment rate was around 5%. Today the national economy under Obama is in shambles, ObamaCare is costing more jobs, The NATIONAL price for gasoline has not dropped below $3.00 a gallon since Obama came to power, high fuel costs hurt the  economy. Obama's war on oil, coal, and the Keystone pipleine all work against us here in Oklahoma, but even when the odds stacked against us the Governor is doing a good job keeping our economy growing.

Now let's look at 2001-2009. This time period featured 9/11, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the rise of the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China) and a near global economic meltdown:

2001 - $1.61
2002 - $1.47
2003 - $1.69
2004 - $1.94
2005 - $2.30
2006 - $2.51
2007 - $2.64
2008 - $3.01
2009 - $2.14

Now let's look at 1993-2000, when the United States was in the midst of an incredible economic boom:

1993 - $1.42
1994 - $1.39
1995 - $1.41
1996 - $1.48
1997 - $1.46
1998 - $1.24
1999 - $1.34
2000 - $1.70

remember  gasoline was $1.70 a gallon under Bush...

Gasoline was also over $4.00 under Bush. Funny, you don't seem to remember that.

Please explain what a President has or can do about the price of gas.   

Haha...wonder if she noticed.  Someone said this was taken post-debate last night.

Ahhhh....Mary!!  Haven't heard anything inane, trivial, and trite today!  So good of you to correct that for us all....


As for gasoline, I have been filling up at $2.91 to $2.98 in many places between here and Oklahoma City.  And Dallas was even lower at about $3.12 last week when I got my friendly Ebola exposure....

Gasoline was also over $4.00 under Bush. Funny, you don't seem to remember that.

Please explain what a President has or can do about the price of gas.  

I did not get to watch the debates but I understand that Dooland guy was talking about the need for more money for everything. Throwing money at the schools will fix them, throwing money at every problem will fix it. Yep, andother Tax & Spender, just what Oklahoma needs. Mary Fallin is expected to win a second term easy she has a good solid strong record to run on.

Yes- BUT  for only two weeks fuel spiked then it crashed and stayed low. With Obama and his war on oil, coal, and the Keystone pipeline gasoline prices skyrocketed and stayed there a full six years, Keroscene is is around $10.00 a gallon. Our electric bills are going up, up and away too as the EPA digs in it's heels for CO2 pollution. OK, You ask what a president can do- Lots, first open up all federal lands for drilling, open up off shore drilling, let's drill in the Alaska wildlife perserve, let's build  the Keystone Pipeline and I understand the Alaska Pipeline is running at half it's capacity due to the environmentalists, lets run that pipeline at full capacity.  BTW,  it's lucky we got the Alaska Pipeline built when we did because in  today's world  it never would have been built..  The Keystone pipeline would also make 50,000 jobs.. Doing simple things like that would drop the price of oil, oh yeah we could also  build more refineries and lift  EPA restrictions on  current refineries.  I'm tellin' ya!

The Keystone pipeline would also make 50,000 jobs.

Estimates for job creation statistics for the Trans-Alaska Pipeline’s construction continued to fluctuate from the time it was first planned until the labor was set.  In March of 1973, Alyeska estimated that the pipeline would employ 26,000 people in construction jobs.  These numbers were later dropped significantly to 18,000 construction jobs in October 1973.  By January of 1974, once union contracts for the labor had been negotiated, Alyeska estimated that “perhaps 13,000” jobs would be created, “at its peak.”  During the summer of 1974, when initial work on the pipeline was just getting started, the labor force was estimated to grow to more than 14,000 workers by the following spring, when the pipe-laying would begin.  When the company began hiring in earnest in March 1975, they estimated that between 14,000 and 18,000 workers would be required that summer.

In January of 2010, Trans-Canada CEO Russell Girling claimed that the project would produce 13,000 construction jobs.  In April of 2011 the number grew to 20,000, which the Canadian Ambassador reiterated in August 2011.  In January 2012 the number was revised back down to 13,000 and this past April the company revised that number even lower, to 9,000 construction jobs.  Meanwhile, both the federal government and the Global Labor Institute at Cornell University’s College of Industrial and Labor Relations examined TransCanada’s application and made their own job creation estimates, at 6,000-6,500 and 2,500-4,500 respectively.  A State Department study projects only 35 permanent jobs in pipeline maintenance and inspection. Although it seems likely that the Keystone XL Pipeline’s application will eventually be approved by the Obama Administration, firmer numbers will not be available until the project gets underway.

BTW,  it's lucky we got the Alaska Pipeline built when we did because in  today's world  it never would have been built..  The Keystone pipeline would also make 50,000 jobs.. Doing simple things like that would drop the price of oil, oh yeah we could also  build more refineries and lift  EPA restrictions on  current refineries.  I'm tellin' ya!

I said the NATIONAL gasoline  average price- nation wide for gasoline is currently around $3.34 a gallon and it has not fell below the $3.00 a gallon mark since Obama came to power 6 years ago- yes in Oklahoma it's under $3.00 a gallon, but in other parts of the country it's still sky high thanks to Obama & the democrats. When Bush left office the going price for gasoline was $1.70 or so a gallon.

I said the NATIONAL gasoline  average price- nation wide for gasoline is currently around $3.34 a gallon and it has not fell below the $3.00 a gallon mark since Obama came to power 6 years ago- yes in Oklahoma it's under $3.00 a gallon, but in other parts of the country it's still sky high thanks to Obama & the democrats. When Bush left office the going price for gasoline was $1.70 or so a gallon.

Since Obama came to power?  Incorrect.  From Jan. 20, 2009 to late Feb. 2010, it remained below $3.00 per gallon.

Gas breeched $3.00/gal for the first time ever (aside from occasional and isolated gouging cases after natural disasters) in May of 2007.  It flirted with $3.00/gal until February 2008 when it remained above $3.00 and went to its historic high of $4.00 before finally retreating below $3.00 in late Oct./early Nov. of 2008.

Who was president of the United States from May 2007 to Nov. 2008 and what did he have to do with the price of gasoline and a barrel of oil?  

Real data on gas prices for the last 35 years. Look how stable the price was until Bush took office.

http://www.randomuseless.info/gasprice/gasprice.html

I miss the days when I could get around for a week in my ElCamino for $5-$10.

Making $2.35 an hour....

Actually, I think Albertson’s was paying courtesy clerks $4 or $4.25 an hour at the time, early ’80’s.

Don't tell me you were working at Albertson's in the early/mid 80s...my cousin worked at the 21st/Memorial location for several years.  You might have crossed paths if that's the case.

Geee, that spike coincides with the surge in Iraq then drops by January '08 and the has gone up every year since now close to the price during the surge. Who was presid....... oh that's right, blame Bush.

No- Wait stop & think in 2007 the democrats took over congress and everything went to heck, Bush wanted to open up more lands for drilling but the democrats in congress would not permit it. Nancy P became speaker of the house, is it any wonder things went to heck.

Got it.  So when the republican is in office, it's the opposition speaker's fault.  When the Democrat is in office, it's the President's fault.

Actually, by that logic, it's Boozy McOrangeface's fault.  But I guess not, since he's a Republican.

You might be the dumbest person on the face of the planet.

Wait- OK,  stop & think in 2007 the democrats took over congress and everything went to heck in a hand basket, Bush wanted to open up more lands for drilling but the democrats in congress would not permit it. Nancy P became speaker of the house, is it any wonder things went to heck. Then in 2008 Obama ran for president a far left radical with Bill Ayers as his buddy and  Obama went to  church with the good Rev Wright as the minister. Like they say your known by the company you keep. The economy crashed in early 2009.

(http://memecrunch.com/meme/BVC0/what-you-ve-just-said-is-one-of-the-most-insanely-idiotic-things-i-have-ever-heard-at-no-point-in-your-rambling-incoherent-response-were-you-even-close-to-anything-that-could-be-considered-a-rational-thought-everyone-in-this-room-is-now-dumber-for-having-listened-to-it-i-award-you-no-points-and-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/image.png)

This is not rocket science just look around you, Oklahoma is booming, we have a robust economy anyone who wants a job can find one, and with more tax cuts coming our economy will grow and expand even more. Mary Fallin has Oklahoma humming like a well oiled machine, she did a great job as Governor and earned another term. The Red states are the states with growing economies, the blue states are in economic depressions why is that?

Damn you Swake I already used that in video form.  Maybe not in this post but it was in response to one of cabbage's posts.  ;)

This is not rocket science just look around you, Oklahoma is booming, we have a robust economy anyone who wants a job can find one, and with more tax cuts coming our economy will grow and expand even more. Mary Fallin has Oklahoma humming like a well oiled machine, she did a great job as Governor and earned another term. The Red states are the states with growing economies, the blue states are in economic depressions why is that?

I am looking around and I don't see a boom?  I remember the last boom in Tulsa and this don't look like that.  Double digit population growth, wages skyrocketing, literally dozens of skyscrapers going up at once, airport bursting at the seams with traffic, etc. etc. Sorry, not seeing it.

I am looking around and I don't see a boom?  I remember the last boom in Tulsa and this don't look like that.  Double digit population growth, wages skyrocketing, literally dozens of skyscrapers going up at once, airport bursting at the seams with traffic, etc. etc. Sorry, not seeing it.

There are towers going up everywhere and a there's a lot of tension in the city as long time residents and businesses are pushed out by skyrocketing rents.

This is not rocket science just look around you, Oklahoma is booming, we have a robust economy anyone who wants a job can find one, and with more tax cuts coming our economy will grow and expand even more. Mary Fallin has Oklahoma humming like a well oiled machine, she did a great job as Governor and earned another term. The Red states are the states with growing economies, the blue states are in economic depressions why is that?

I don't see that as a good thing.

The last booming salary increase I got was during  the late Carter / early Reagan Administrations.  I got a nice raise just to keep my salary up with the new hires.

Where was Fallin to stop this?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/manufacturing/hilti-moving-north-american-headquarters-from-tulsa-to-dallas-area/article_28b2ae91-98ae-5a64-9021-0cc6ae3eb46d.html

"Moving the corporate headquarters to the Dallas Metroplex puts us in the middle of a top five construction market and gives us greater access to a much larger talent pool as we expand our business over the next decade," Cary Evert, Hilti North America President and CEO, said in a statement.

"Moving the corporate headquarters to the Dallas Metroplex puts us in the middle of a top five construction market and gives us greater access to a much larger talent pool as we expand our business over the next decade," Cary Evert, Hilti North America President and CEO, said in a statement.

Results from a new study claim Oklahoma’s tax system is unfair to the great majority of its’ citizens. The report, from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, finds low and middle-income Oklahomans pay over two times more in taxes as a percentage of income than the wealthiest residents. Gene Perry is with the Oklahoma Policy Institute. He says the state’s tax system is upside down.

Perry says the Governor and legislature keep pushing tax cuts for top earners, but they haven’t done a thing for Oklahomans who most need a break.

This should raise the heat in some posters' cockles.

Oklahoma Tax System Called "Unfair"

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-tax-system-called-unfair (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-tax-system-called-unfair)

I'll say this much as a middle income earner - my OK state income tax is approaching half in amount of what I pay yearly in Federal income tax.  It never used to be that way in the nineties...

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma Secretary of Finance Preston Doerflinger has been arrested by Oklahoma City police on an alcohol-related complaint.

The Oklahoman reports that Doerflinger was arrested late Thursday on a complaint of actual physical control of a motor vehicle while under the influence of alcohol. Records show Doerflinger was booked into Oklahoma County jail about 1:30 a.m. Friday and released.

A police report says Doerflinger was arrested after officers responded to a caller who reported seeing a distraught woman trying to get out of a vehicle. Officers located the vehicle and identified Doerflinger as the driver. The officer reported Doerflinger had the odor of alcohol on his breath and seemed confused.

In a statement, Doerflinger said: "I am deeply sorry for the embarrassment this has caused. It will not happen again."

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma's legislative leaders say the state's projected $300 million budget hole for the upcoming year will nearly double due to low energy prices and the resulting layoffs of oil and natural gas workers.

Republican Rep. Earl Sears of Bartlesville, chairman of the House Appropriations and Budget Committee, said Thursday falling energy prices and layoffs at Oklahoma energy companies means the budget shortfall for the fiscal year that begins July 1 "will be significantly larger" than originally projected.

House Democrat Leader Scott Inman of Oklahoma City says the shortfall will be almost double the original estimate, or about $600 million.

House Speaker Jeff Hickman says a larger budget hole will likely mean budget cuts at state agencies.

The Board of Equalization will certify the revenue estimate for next year on Tuesday.

Damn Sauer...what happened?

We have known for a long time that we have got to get this state off the heavy reliance on oil and gas.  Not saying we need to cut back on drilling and such as much as we need to focus on other industries and infrastructure. When times are good thats the time to invest in broadening our economy.  

Here is what the next go around could very well look like.  Gas prices will rise again.  The economy will bounce back over the years.  Then just as we think we are sitting pretty, gas prices will begin to drop again... and this time likely stay low.  Why?  By this time alternative energy sources and transportation truly will be competitive and keep getting better and more broadly based, the now fast growing economies will have matured to a much slower pace, and people will really be able to see the writing on the wall.  I would hope that they would see it now and prepare for this future so that we aren't "surprised" by the inevitable.  We won't know exactly when but I think most can agree that this will happen.  Lets not be behind the curve, lets get ahead of it and reap the benefits of that foresight.  Lets indeed make money off the oil/gas while the getting is good, but know it aint gonna last, for this next time may very well be the last time we get to play this card.  

Oklahoma made a stab at taking part in alternative energy.

Ever once in a while, you're downright lucid. Off by a few years, but then that's the Oklahoma effect! Reliance on sales taxes, oil/gas, and dinosaur river development has limited our choices and blunted our potential. Throw in casinos and that red glow the city has and bingo....bedroom community.

When something is worth replying to and the conversation is both reality based and respectfully approached, I am game. I don't know where you guys find the time!

All the usual suspects.

Oklahoma's budget shortfall is deeper than what officials expected. The state Equalization Board today said state lawmakers will have $611.3-million dollars less to spend this year than last.

The  state says the decrease is brought on by declining oil prices. It was originally been estimated to be $298-million short and then $600-million.This will mean cuts it state agency expenditures and pretty much voids Governor Fallin's proposed budget. The Oklahoma Policy Institute Issued the following statement in a news release

"This news that Oklahoma's revenue picture has gone from bad to worse cannot be blamed only on the slowdown in the energy industry. Choices by the Legislature and Governor have helped dig this budget hole. State leaders need to make better choices to avoid calamitous cuts to our children's schools, our health care safety net, and public safety."

Oklahoma Budget Hole: $611.3 Million

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-budget-hole-6113-million (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-budget-hole-6113-million)

Yep, how's that tax cut gonna fit in there?

Yep, how's that tax cut gonna fit in there?

A state House budget subcommittee asked cultural agencies Monday how they’re preparing for another year of cuts.

Oklahoma Arts Council Director Amber Sharples said their first cuts would be to community arts programs.

"These go very heavily to our rural communities — the festivals that take place everywhere from Claremore, Idabel, across the state," Sharples said. "So, obviously, that would have ramifications."

Oklahoma Department of Libraries Director Susan McVey told the subcommittee she has to spend money on certain things in order to get more than $2 million in federal dollars.

"And that's what we use for some of the projects that we talked to you about, like the statewide licenses for databases and the public library summer reading program and interlibrary loan," McVey said.

The subcommittee asked to hear from the arts council and the libraries department on how budget cuts of 2.5 percent, 5 and 7.5 would impact them next fiscal year.

With a $611 million budget hole looming, the subcommittee asked if their revolving funds would help ease another round of cuts.

Sharples said theirs would go toward educational programs.

"Being able to expend those funds and get them out to more districts and communities across the state is more likely than us keeping the revolving fund," she said.

McVey warned the subcommittee it’s not a long-term solution, however.

"It's one time," she said. "We can only do it one time."

The two agencies’ budgets are down nearly 30 percent from 2008. Both directors said they’ve done everything they can to save, from eliminating travel budgets to carrying a 44 percent vacancy rate.

State Arts, Libraries Agencies Prepare for Further Cuts

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201401/Arts_Council.jpg)

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/state-arts-libraries-agencies-prepare-further-cuts (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/state-arts-libraries-agencies-prepare-further-cuts)

Before too long Oklahoma will resemble Afghanistan!

Which one would be a preferable place for a US President to visit?

Trick question?