The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

I've always heard that Trader Joe's will never come to Oklahoma because of the inability to sell alcohol.

Now I see KC is getting two TJ's. One on the Missouri side, which will sell booze. But the other is on the Kansas side, and alcohol will not be sold, as Kansas' alcohol laws are nearly as craptastic as ours.

http://economy.kansascity.com/?q=node/8330

Very interesting. Anybody think we've got a chance to get one?

That's not true. New York and Connecticut both have Trader Joe's that are unable to sell wine due to state laws. The New York Union Square location opened an adjoining 'wine shop' to circumvent the law- and they deliver!

It is also interesting to note that there are no Trader Joe's in Texas either. So I guess we can cross off demographics as a valid reason....Texas (as well as Oklahoma) certainly has many areas that would fit theirs.

I think it's more of a distribution issue, but since TJ's is notoriously secretive, we may never know.

I don't myself know. I just know that's been the reason cited by many people on this board and elsewhere.

If distribution is the issue, the fact that the closest stores will now be 250 miles away instead of 400 can't hurt our cause.

Does TJ's share distribution centers with Aldi?

Trader Joe's pop-up shop to open in Tulsa for one day

By NICOLE MARSHALL MIDDLETON World Scene Writer
Published: 1/30/2013  3:25 PM
Last Modified: 1/30/2013  3:25 PM

http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/article.aspx?subjectid=371&articleid=20130130_371_0_Tulsas320096

Tulsa’s Young Professionals have launched a pop-up shop in an effort to bring the high-end grocery store, Trader Joe’s, to the area.

The undertaking is part of a “Bring it to Tulsa” a grassroots initiative to attract businesses to the city. The TYPros Business Development Crew developed the idea, said Hillary Parkhurst, TYPros 2013 chairperson.

The closest Trader Joe’s is in Kansas City and that’s where the TYPros members are going to pick up the products that people order online, she said.

Tulsa area customers can order select items at tulsaworld.com/bringittotulsa from now until noon Feb. 8. Customers must be prepared to pick up the items at GitWit Creative, 11 E. Brady St. between 4 and 8 p.m. Feb. 16.

“They will be arranged like a small grocery store so it will be really easy to locate them and pick them up,” Parkhurst said.

A $5 handling fee will be added to orders over $10, which will cover the costs of renting a truck and transporting the goods back to Tulsa, Parkhurst said.

The TYPros members voted for Trader Joe’s to be the first business targeted as part of the “Bring it to Tulsa,” campaign. Other business, such as Crate and Barrel, H & M, and Urban Outfitters, have also been considered, she said.

While Trader Joe’s is aware of the effort, they are not working with TYPros to create the shop, Parkhurst said.

“They know that we are coming and they will be helping to load the truck but that is their only involvement,” Parkhurst said.

“We know that the outcome of this doesn’t mean that they will be coming to Tulsa, but we are all about planning and growing, so this project is really about educating the community on different barriers that we have in our state.”

For example, Oklahoma liquor laws have been cited as one of the reasons that certain businesses that sell wine and beer, such as Trader Joe’s, have chosen to expand into other states that do not have the same restrictions.

“We want to find creative ways to break through those barriers and show national retailers what Tulsa has to offer,” Parkhurst said.

She said that many cities like Tulsa have a Facebook campaign to bring Trader Joe’s to their area.

However, “We wanted to do something more than just click a ‘like’ button,” Parkhurst said.

For more information, call TYPros at 918-560-0260 or email info@typros.org.
By NICOLE MARSHALL MIDDLETON World Scene Writer

Copyright 2013 World Publishing Co. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

But can you order Two Buck Chuck on this pop up?

it would be awesome if you could.

Probably not. Something about that Interstate Commerce thingy.  ;D

  What I would like to see them do is something like this for a local business as well.  Help build awareness locally of a fun, hip, budding new local business that could one day branch out to say... Kansas City.   Great to try and bring a new store to Tulsa, but it would also be great to support the local business that other cities might one day be begging to have in their market.   

Have one in mind? 
 
 ;D

This is an offshoot of our Chamber we are talking about here... I'm not sure such intelligence exists within that ivory tower those walls.

Apparently, I'm not the only one here who likes some TBC every now and then.

I'm not a huge fan of this Trader Joe's idea.

However, I will say they have supported a lot of local business over the years.  Their monthly happy hours are always at a locally owned restaurant and at least half are downtown.

They also did a really cool pop up weekend at The Pearl year and Red Fork this weekend.  I believe it is called Street Cred.

"They" being TYPROs or Trader Joe's?

I am on the fence about this, honestly I can say my life will go on without a trader joes anywhere in Oklahoma, I would never order something to have it shipped in, while this is a "cool" idea I wish them luck but it just seems a little cheesy

They being typos TYPros.

i have actually never had a chance to try it.  everyone that i know who has tried it, has liked it.  one of these days, i will get my hands on a bottle of it.

i saw this picture show up on reddit lastnight ( http://www.reddit.com/r/tulsa/comments/1bdm7o/trader_joes_downtown/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/tulsa/comments/1bdm7o/trader_joes_downtown/) ):
(http://i.imgur.com/wBPADon.jpg)

old sign from the pop up shop?  april fools joke?  it appears that the sign is in an empty lot at 9th and denver.

http://www.traderjoes.com/stores/coming-soon.asp

Only if Oklahoma moves out of the dark ages on liquor laws. Trader Joe's and Costco don't want to move where they can't sell their own label in their stores.

i thought this was the reasoning, as well.  however, i was just talking with a friend of mine that lives in state college, PA.  he said that they have a trader joe's there.  PA's liquor laws prevent wine and liquor (and beer too, i think) from being sold in grocery stores.  i am beginning to think that OK liquor laws aren't the reason that we don't have a trader joe's.

Could very well be. I was basing it on talking to people at Trader Joe's last time I was in Arizona.

When I lived in PA, liquor and wine were only available in State Stores, stores actually owned and run by the state.  Beer was available in "Beverage Stores".  I don't remember if beverage stores could sell anything besides beer and soda(pop).  Bars could sell beer to go. I don't remember restaurant rules.

This delly is where we bought hoagies.  No beer back then but they also didn't have seating for customers to eat in the store.  (No Coors east of the Mississippi River either.)  Maybe they now have a restaurant license of some sort.
(http://www.sleepyhollowdelly.com/images/sleepy_hollow_delly.jpg)
http://www.sleepyhollowdelly.com/

I used to live in Pittsburgh, PA. In PA, you cannot buy liquor, wine or beer in grocery stores. We still had multiple Costco stores and a Trader Joe's. We also DIDN'T have such a massive Walmart domination of the retail market like OK does. I would wager that Costco and Trader Joe's doesn't want to get this far away from their supply chain for a market that is addicted to Walmart AND won't have wine sales to help make extra revenue.

Just one of those distortions/misrepresentations that floats around as "common knowledge".  Despite many examples to the contrary.

Yeah, we need to move out of the dark ages across many fronts, but none of those will stop Costco if they feel the business case is there....and alcohol won't be a single issue "vote" for them.

Not true ... Trader Joes are open in Dallas, San Antonio, Houton and Austin.

That may not have been the case when that post was written in 2010.

And remember that Trader Joe's and Aldi's are the same
Company. So they already have distribution in this area.

Exactly. Trader Joe's entered the Texas market about a year ago.

That is a common misunderstanding.  There are actually two different Aldi companies, owned by two brothers who split the sheets, so to speak, in 1960.  Trader Joe's is under common ownership with Aldi Nord.  The Aldi stores in the US are owned by Aldi Sud.

From LostTulsa:

I I think that whole strip center on Brookside is going by bye.....

How about lets not demolish buildings and instead put that Trader Joe's Downtown where it is really needed?

Downtown? Smh

Will definitely knock out any chance of that part of Brookside from ever linking to the north side or itself becoming more pedestrian friendly.  I doubt that they will make this a pedestrian friendly Trader Joe's.  Would love to be proved wrong though.  The "feeling" of Brookside could be drastically changed if this is a store with a parking lot in front.  There are already large gaps in this  area and adding another quite large one could make more of an impact than you might think at first.  

It's interesting to watch the northern end of Brookside improve, but I wonder how this whole area will fare if it becomes the only pedestrian friendly segment and the rest becomes suburban parking lots?  They may "kill the goose that laid the golden egg" so to speak.  On the one hand I hope to see Brookside continue to do better, but on the other, if it does "crap out" on itself. Fine with me it will be their choice, only makes Downtown, where my business is, all the more attractive.

I've only ever seen suburban Trader Joe's stores. Are there more urban examples?

There are some. Denver has a few. However, the majority of them are more suburban in format.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/674/F3Nbcq.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/iqF3Nbcqj)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/s2Qgga.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/exs2Qggaj)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/iTSFyZ.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/f0iTSFyZj)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/910/D14kS3.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/paD14kS3j)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/901/bhTIiR.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/p1bhTIiRj)

How legitimate is it that this is going to be a Trader Joe's? Looking at the County Assessor site I just don't see them owning enough land to build a Trader Joe's and have enough parking to satisfy the city unless they are planning underground parking or going to apply for a variance.

About 6-7 years ago, I was asked to do a high-resolution rendering of what this development could look like.  Worked with a smart young architect who generated some really nice ideas. This was the result. I have no clue if this is what will materialize, but I think it's quite nice.


(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7491/15875123201_94ffd33244_c.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7492/15691342137_5baa12d11d_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8616/15851298016_41e99eb41c_c.jpg)

Is that actually multiple stores or is it a facade (like some of the WalMarts) for a single store?  It certainly looks nicer than Big Box.

Don't remember.  I think it was one central entity with the option of a restaurant on one or both ends.

We stopped at the Trader Joe’s in Santa Fe a few months ago.  MC and I really didn’t get what the big deal is other than the “Three Buck Chuck” wine  which was great party favor wine, but nothing you’d want to drink with a good meal.

JMO, Brookside would be a lousy location for them with Whole Paycheck, Reasor’s, and Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market all within that mile of road.  We wouldn’t bother shopping there, far too many options between our house and there with nothing that compelling.  They won’t be able to sell their wine in-store which is one of their niches.

That would be fantastic if that was anything like what the project would be like.

It appears that TJ can adapt to urban settings.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=trader+joe%27s+manhattan&gbv=2&oq=trader+joe%27s+manhattan&gs_l=heirloom-hp.3..0l3.1390.9976.0.12003.24.14.1.9.9.0.122.898.7j7.14.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..0.24.936.1bWCq0hlcTM

Actually 3 buck chuck (used to be 2 buck chuck) is some of the most surprising stuff you can buy.  Has won some serious awards.  I grab a case of the Cab and Shiraz every time I go.  Chardonnay is not bad either.

We used to be members of the Tulsa Wine club and when we had blind tastings, Mark would always throw in a 2 Buck to stir things up.  In many cases the 2 Buck won over $50-$100 dollar bottles of wine.

Quite palatable, but just not something I’d grab to serve with some nice ribeyes.  It’s on par with the better box wines out there these days, which aren’t bad, but again not what I’d serve on special occasions or with a robust meal.

I give the Denver TJs lighting a thumbs down for glary fixtures.  Looking at the other photos, the street and nearby businesses are all Full-Cutoff (low glare) shielded fixtures.
Just my $.02

I have verified that center is coming down and being re-developed.......

And man is that an ugly building. Kind looks like an Aldi

(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/news-record.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/b1/0b16c1c8-ea3f-11e2-b14e-0019bb30f31a/51decff670a02.image.jpg)

Maybe we can get a T-Mobile, California Nails, and Supercuts there.

Somewhere, Inteller's head is exploding right now...

Sadly, it looks like it's based off of the picture in Gaspar's post.

Ever been to a Mariano's grocery store? Amazing. Fun store. I have been to the one in downtown Chicago.
http://www.marianos.com/

I've heard from very reliable sources it is a Trader Joe's going into the 37th & Peoria development. There will be about 5,000 square feet of additional retail available. The way it was describe was those would be available in "pad site" so it will be interesting to see if that design that was posted on here will be followed or if this development will go the way of the current Arvest, Bank of West, and other non-urban sensitive developments sprouting up in Brookside.

The sad thing is that until the zoning code gets updated, anything that is built on Brookside will have suburban setbacks and parking requirements by default.  Obviously, a developer could request a variance if they wanted to build something appropriate for the neighborhood, but it would take extra time and effort.  Fingers crossed.

On a side note, Trader Joes typically moves into existing retail spaces; I can't think of any that were built from scratch, except maybe the one in Kirkwood, MO. But they do like to locate near existing Whole Foods stores, etc, b/c they can easily beat WF prices and quickly pull health conscious customers into the fold.

Got to give you credit for picking a horse and riding the hell out of it.

(http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1566/200706/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1566-372374.jpg)

Recent new developments in Brookside and Cherry Street have come up to the sidewalk with parking behind, hopefully this is the case with this development.  The Brookside Neighborhood Assoc. should demand it in this area.  If done right it could help bring more pedestrian-oriented businesses on Peoria south of 36th.  Something like the Denver one on Colorado Blvd. would be appropriate.

City Hall Blog: I think Trader Joe's is coming to town, no matter what they say - Tulsa World

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/city-hall-blog-i-think-trader-joe-s-is-coming/article_fa2f18d4-d900-51da-afcb-2ed9fbb4577a.html

By KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer

Trader Joe's spokeswoman Rachel Broderick said Thursday that Tulsa is not in the specialty grocer's short-term expansion plans.

"It is not in our two-year plans," she said by phone from the company's headquarters in Monrovia, California.

I, like many Tulsans, have heard rumblings that the supermarket chain is coming to town.

And I'm still not convinced that won't happen.

Here's why:

Preliminary development plans for a 12,000-square-foot grocery store to be built between 37th Street and 37th Place on Peoria Avenue were presented to the city late last year.

They're detailed: neat little rows for produce, neat little rows of display shelves, neat little rows for frozen foods. A line of cash registers.

It sure looks like a Trader Joe's.

Then there is this: The county's land records show the 1.5-acre property is owned by Brookland North LLC — the same folks who presented plans for the supermarket to the city last fall.

There's even a store rendering attached.

But, alas, the store is not named.

Don't forget, by the way, the dozen or so businesses that occupy the Peoria Avenue property now. They have been told they need to be out of their buildings by the end of February to make way for a new development.

That's too many coincidences for me.

So I called John Philips with Venture Properties, an affiliate of Brookland North LLC, to ask if he is bringing a Trader Joe's to town.

He was kind but mum.

"We can't, at this time, discuss who we are in conversation with," he said.

The World even called the architecture firm, BRS Architects of Boise, Idaho, that created the preliminary plans and asked to speak to the person who did "the plans for Trader Joe's in Tulsa?"

The woman who answered the phone identified the architect by name and transferred us to him.

Although he could not provide specifics on the design of plans issued to the city, he did say the firm has designed a Trader Joe's in Houston, Texas.

So there you have my case that Trader Joe's is coming to Tulsa.

Broderick, the Trader Joe's spokeswoman, was as helpful and charming as she could be, and I do not suspect for a moment that she was being anything but truthful.

But you know how life works — plans change.

If it items out like this it could be nice development: http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/67/5671bd28-7d72-5a3e-a108-92bb278e367d/54bb288f7959b.pdf.pdf (http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/67/5671bd28-7d72-5a3e-a108-92bb278e367d/54bb288f7959b.pdf.pdf)

From the attachments in the TW article.  That looks like the block between 37th Pl and 37th St on Peoria.

So is that whole thing one store, or do you enter through the windows?

This is a Trader Joes no if's ands or buts.....

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/brookside-business-relocating-end-month/nj3SD/

I hope it follows the Brookside overlay plan but I'm sure it wont. Right now there is a row of one story buildings that are built right up to the sidewalk...a giant parking lot will make a huge hole. Why are we so dead set on destroying the charm of brookside? There are empty spaces all over the place that a trader joe's could occupy.


(https://cbks2.google.com/cbk?output=thumbnail&cb_client=maps_sv&thumb=2&thumbfov=60&ll=36.109158,-95.975706&yaw=272.6&thumbpegman=1&w=300&h=118)

People buy real estate as an investment....If that was your land and Trader Joe's offered you a pile of money for it....What would you do...All those spaces are in need of major updating and improvements....They are as a whole in bad shape...From the owners point of view the ROI on that property does not make sense to rehab it....

Not saying that Trader Joe's shouldn't be built here...just that Trader Joe's should blend in and contribute to the street scape rather than detract from it.

Which would only add to everyone else's long term investments in the area, versus potentially harm it over the long term.

 

I'm with ya....

The renderings show it fronting the sidewalk/Peoria with parking behind, did you see something different on a site plan somewhere?

There is a certain thingy called a planning commission.  They do take public comment and consider it.  If the public is not happy with the planning commission’s approval of a project, they can go before the council to protest.  This has been used before to stop projects or change the outcome.  The Brookside Business Association is well-established.  I’d think they keep a close eye on stuff like this to make sure it’s consistent with the rest of the area. 

As evidenced by the flap over the Gathering Place feeder sidewalk, people can voice their opinion, be heard, and change the outcome.

Like they did with the QT expansion? The new Arvest Bank?

When I mentioned this to the Brookside Neighborhood association they said they had not heard anything about it.  They brought it up to a Brookside Business Assoc member at their meeting and he didn't know anything about it either.   

At least they do know about it now.  Whether they care or not is a different matter.  I think many of them are of a mind that just having a Trader Joes in the area will be a benefit, whether or not it meets with the Brookside Plan or not.

I can’t imagine they would be so daft as to lose the up to the curb construction which typifies a good deal of Brookside. 

Here are some renderings and a site plan for the development, taken from the PDFs the World posted. Notice how there's no door whatsoever facing Peoria. The entrance is in the back, facing the parking lot. The header on the site plan says "Option #1" so hopefully their other options have access from the street they're fronting.

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Does this have any affect on the likelihood of a Tulsa Trader Joe's?
http://www.okctalk.com/content/107-trader-joe-s-rei-coming-okc.html

They'll probably open around the same time. 

As for the pedestrian-friendliness of TJ's, the ones I've been to in Denver also have the front door facing the parking lot behind or to the side.  At least from what the renderings show the building itself fronts Peoria at the corner of 37th Place with large window and a masonry enclosure (one in Denver is all CMU and looks really cheap).  Obviously the best option would be front door at the corner.

I would think that having one in OKC would increase the chances of a Tulsa store.  Depending on where their distribution comes from we will now have two stores within an hour.  Which means a GM could be over both stores.

Confirmation of an OKC location does away with the concern that the liquor laws would prevent it, so it's a good thing.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7365/16270207578_6f9c9d1163.jpg)

The recessed lighting is good.  Throw in that big lake and its a deal.

Why is this such a secret? And who gives a flyin flip?  ???

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/cityhall/city-hall-blog-bet-on-it-trader-joe-s-is/article_f9e15e08-5119-5eba-b951-6692275efa9d.html

Well,  there's six pages of discussion about it just on this forum, so obviously a few people do.

I've never been to one. So my curiosity is the amount of passion this writer at the World has for a new store. What is the World shattering, life changing effect this and Cosco are going to make for our backward lifestyle here in Tulsa?

I won't argue that these new businesses are life changing but as someone born and raised here it is awesome to see Tulsa finally (slowly) catching up. It's nice not to have to travel to KC or Dallas to shop at some of these stores.

Costco will absolutely show that retail CAN pay a reasonable wage and still be financially successful - putting the lie, as any thinking person already knew - to the whole crock of carp that raising the minimum wage is bad for the economy.  That would be kind of exciting...just not sure many of our fellow citizens will understand it.  Since they keep electing Failin'/Kern/Inhofe, and their ilk.

Trader Joe's - haven't been to one either.  Their attitude looks like fun, though.  And I do like Hawaiian shirts - would never wear anything else if I didn't have an "office job".  Besides being just plain ole comfy, they are great for concealed carry!!

Probably would have to spend a lot of time in southern CA or WA to appreciate the TJ's phenom...

Rumor has it that OKC may be getting and H&M.  Would love to have one of those in Tulsa. Trader Joes, eh.  Urban outfitters, eh.  H&M  ;D

OKC is into bondage that much...??

We'd need to be in better shape...

I shopped at Trader Joe's a few times, but was never really impressed, especially when the fruits and veggies that were over priced spoiled less than 3 days after purchasing, and having employees there ask me to not were my deodorant as the found commercially made ones offensive.

Trader Joe's is a lot like a bowl of Granola.

Costco I like because they have employees that are pleasant and helpful and seem to like working there as opposed to the zombies at Sams club who couldn't care less.

Without Three Buck Chuck, I honestly cannot think of any reason I’d need to drive past Reasor’s, Sprouts, and Whole Paycheck to shop there.

+1   Still cool that it's coming though.

You always make me look things up.  :D Charles Shaw Wine? musta went up a dollar.

I think the glass for the bottles costs a buck now  ;)

Where are MustStache,  Lil MustStache and other stores moving?

West of Charlestons......

Finalizing the contract, marketing strategy, whatever other business reasons they might have.

Also, Tulsa's had some history of places announcing that they're opening a place/moving in, only to be "coming soon" for a year or more, or just plain falling through - Cams, Archer Market, the Food Pyramid conversion to Reasor's on Brookside, most of the new hotels and housing downtown, etc.  Maybe they want all their ducks in a row before anything is official?

What has been the point of Reasor’s remodel on Peoria anyhow?  They have walked right into other older former Albertson’s stores and made minor changes as they went.

It's not going to be a standard Reasor's, it's going to be a new more upscale format. They finally have it under construction.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/construction-underway-at-brookside-reasor-s-store/article_76055e45-023d-5ffb-8604-8add7068a8c3.html

Lot of grocery competition on that block between Whole Foods, "upscale" Reasors, and if it happens Trader Joes.  People gotta eat so if each is clean and offers good product they all can succeed.  All three are different styles also.  Whole Foods is expensive upscale stuff.  Even an "upscale" Reasors will probably still have regular grocery prices.  Trader Joes is a different type of niche store that will probably do tons of business at first and will settle into normalcy after the novelty wears off.

I guess my wife and I are old enough that novelty and cool factor mean little to us when it comes to groceries.

There is also a Walmart  Neighborhood Market at 44th and Peoria.  It's a great place if you like relative cheapness, combined with a very limited selection and an "eclectic" (bordering on scary) clientele, both in the store and roaming the parking lot.

I just moved into this area, and I can't wait for the new Reasors.  Whole Foods is nice, but really too expensive (to me) for main-line grocery shopping.   We go to Sprouts at 41st and Harvard right now, but that will change when Reasors opens up.

My wife finds the produce to generally be less expensive at Sprouts than Reasor’s and just as fresh.  Their meat can be a different story.  She’s the shopping pro, so I leave it up to her judgement.

Out here at the edge of civilization, we have Reasor's, WalMart, Target, Aldi's and Sprouts within almost a mile.

Sprouts will typically be less expensive than Reasor's and frequently less expensive than WalMart on produce.  I rarely go to the Target.  No particular reason other than it's mostly the same as WalMart and the Walmart is closer.  Sprout's pork doesn't have 15% added solution of water and probably salt that WM pork has.  Watch the specials.  I still get the pack of (about) 8 chicken thighs with the skin still on at WM. No apparent added water and relatively inexpensive.  Aldi's has some good produce and prices but I typically forget to take a bag.  If you go, take a quarter for deposit on the shopping cart.  You get it back if you take the cart back to the corral.  Canned goods we usually get at WalMart.  Depends if they have the "No Salt Added" or "Low Sodium" varieties. Reasor's canned goods are typically a few cents more for the same thing.  Reasor's in-store specials can be good but sometimes Sprout's will still beat them.  We get Mahi Mahi at Sprout's when it's on special.  It's been previously frozen but I usually vacuum bag it and put it in our freezer until we want some.

You guys are just youngsters.
 
 ;D

Hah hah.  I think you and MC need to trade notes on shopping.  Seems like you have similar methodology, RA.

Sprouts is sucking in some areas.......

They did that to two stores, and one of those already shut down.

 ::) http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/retail-envy-what-popular-stores-would-you-like-to-see/article_6c1c7f15-9014-55ca-93fe-ff26b1a68e31.html

Look at this Grocery in downtown Cleveland

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/heinens-to-build-new-downtown-cleveland-grocery-store-inside-former-ameritrust-rotunda (http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/heinens-to-build-new-downtown-cleveland-grocery-store-inside-former-ameritrust-rotunda)

(http://imgick.cleveland.com/home/cleve-media/width960/img/plain-dealer/photo/2015/01/27/-5bbf5b948066eb7c.jpg)

Well that’s one adaptive re-use for a rotunda!

Bank....

Its official, Trader Joe's Announced they are opening a Tulsa location at the end of 2015

http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/trader-joes-announces-first-oklahoma-location-at-37th-and-peoria-in-tulsas-brookside-neighborhood

I thought it was funny how Tulsa World treated this as “breaking news” this afternoon.

I'm bucking astounded...I tried to tell this to a reporter a month ago....She would not believe me.....

So, it's official.  Happy happy, joy joy!   ;D

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0V4TZAyd8I&t=56[/youtube]

Been better if it was an Oklahoma Joe's or even Eskimo Joe's.  ;D

Would take Eskimo Joe's over Oklahoma Joe's any day of the week.  Just wasn't very impressed.

Same

Rank your Joe's:
1. Eskimo
2. Trader
3. Sloppy
4. Oklahoma

Way beyond Oklahoma Joe's....

Smokies Hickory House.  Yum!!

http://www.smokieshickoryhouse.com/

News to me.  Worth the drive from my fashionable midtown digs?

Only if you like pretty good barbeque....

I have mentioned Black Jaxx in Oologah before - well, he went out of business some time back, but it was worth the drive all the way there.

This place is just about as good.  Plus they have live music some evenings - I don't know the schedule - not winter, I bet, but have set inside and listened through the wall....didn't want to sit outside at the time.  And I really hope that no more than about two or three readers here listen to me on this - I don't want them to get so overwhelmingly busy that I can't get in....

Are there no moderators on this forum? This forum is the worst forum I have ever been on with respect to the lack of "moderation".  I and I know others, get tired of clicking on a topic and hoping to read about it or participate in the discussion only to find the conversation has nothing to do with the topic. This was a good forum but I am now finding that it is practically worthless as every thread gets hijacked. If you want to talk about "beer or bbq" start a thread on it!

And to put my money where my mouth is, I will volunteer to be a moderator but know that this forum will be cleaned up. 3 warnings for hijacking threads, and I will boot your arse off.

Definitely see your point....

It's kind of easy to see how we drift off into space - starting with Trader's...which is related to food and beverage, which brings us to other purveyors of food like Reasors, Sprouts, Whole Foods, and Walmart....with a gentle right (or left) turn to places that prepare that food for us.  Comparisons abound.  Pretty soon we are out in the Dagobah system.  (Notice the gentle nudge toward a Star Wars hijack...)

With a wild-a$$ detour to Ren and Stimpy land!!   Whew!  Talk about right out of left field!!

Yeah, we probably need a light touch of adult supervision...but it's just SO much fun!! 

Careful what you wish for.

Thread Hijacking is not the same as Thread drift. Conversations on here tend to follow like normal personal conversations and just venture from one to another. I don't think it's on purpose and it's at times hard to control drift.

As apt to drift as this forum is, I'd have to say the local news this morning played out as a Tulsa Now Forum recap.

My only gripe is when someone changes the topic to read. Re:
And you have no idea what it's about till you click on it.

Other than that. I have no problem with.......squirrel!

I'm generally fine with the thread drift here, until it's crap like a thread on a school bond and a certain poster then praises the Wal-Marts and trail system in Omaha right out of nowhere.

(http://media2.kjrh.com/photo/2015/03/05/Trader_Joes_Comes_To_Tulsa_2673770000_14467977_ver1.0_640_480.jpg)

It would have only been a "detour" if you and others went on a tangent about it... like you just did with BBQ.

Anyway, seems like there's been so many rumors of a Trader Joe's over the last few years that I figured it'd only happen AFTER the liquor laws were changed.
Glad to be wrong.

Let’s hope liquor law changes aren’t far behind.

Looks like that was an easy snap shot for scene 2 news.  ;D

Sounds like state legislators are going to pick at them bit-by-bit. Costco location includes a space for future liquor sales. Trader Joes is likely similar.

It's actually because of the Tapatalk integration. For some reason, it wipes out the subject line.

Just hope Kern and her lover Smoot don't get in the way.

Don't think Kern cares so much about alcohol as she does about teh ghey...and Smoot really doesn't have a say in it as he'd be excluded I think given his position in that crapstain of a commission known as ABLE.

;)

I think ABLE is struggling to stay relevant.  Smoot came right out and said they make no difference when DPS unveiled the latest ENDUI traveling circus, but they will be at it as long as the taxpayers (and forfeiture victims) fund it.
Oh, sorry, drifting...

Awww....how cute...

Well, since we all followed the Ren & Stimpy reference - hmmm...wonder who brought that in as the first detour point - followed by several notes about Oklahoma Joe's and Eskimo Joe's....

Yep!  I'm the main source of that detour all right.

Special detour just for TulsaRufNex....  Don't be 'Scott Sterling' anymore....

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=730137053737853&fref=nf

I don't see liquor laws changing much.  It is a constitutional change that requires a supermajority vote of the people.  If the liquor wholesaler and store lobbies can't kill it at the capitol I bet the religulous folks will kill at the ballot box.

There is a TJ's in Leawood, KS with no liquor sales and it is full of shoppers evert time I have been there.

It's pretty clear to me that the reason they refused to "confirm" the deal was to avoid the backlash of tearing down a really cool strip of old storefronts.  Someone did their research and saw the Turkey Mountain backlash and the general backlash that occurs when corporations propose demolishing old structures (see bus depot in OKC) and wanted to avoid it to the extent possible.  I find it interesting that less than a month has passed from announcement to demolition.  There are plenty of other spots that they could have built on and avoided tearing down this unique strip.  The vacant spot on Cherry Street where the carwash recently was demolished comes to mind.  It's closer to downtown for increasing residents there, and would have little competition from Whole Foods.  I like Trader Joes and am glad that they are moving to town and not to the suburbs, but its just a shame they have to tear down that neat little strip of storefronts.

I hope they build to adhere to the Brookside plan, but I'm afraid they won't.

There is already a building going into the car wash space.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-n6yg0CHfnLM/VRLvdbwWNbI/AAAAAAAABn8/XQBH7t0MDD0/w662-h349-no/1515.PNG)

That strip was somewhere between 60 and 70 years old.  It may have had structural and mechanical issues which made a complete re-do more attractive.

And then again, sometimes the owner is simply ready to cash in and does not care what the buyer does with their new purchase.  I think Joe’s will have something which will compliment the area nicely.

This would be painful

(http://www.atiae.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/traderjoes.jpg)

Gads! That looks like an old Handy Dan, re-branded.

Other renderings have been posted here which were brought up to the street front with parking in back.  I suspect it will be more Brookside-friendly than, ahem, Quik-Trip’s remodel.

Not sure why they titled this design the "tulsa special".

That a Compadres?

Those really cool store fronts....Were outdated pos fire traps at best......

part of this Building on Cherry Street in the former car wash space will have the R-BAR folks' new concept.

So were most of the warehouses in the Brady and East Village that are being renovated.  That strip could have been renovated to address whatever issues were present.  I know cost is an issue and its not my money, I just wish there had been a way to save those storefronts.

I hope:

1) Trader Joes conforms to the feel of the neighborhood
2) someone sees the demand from the stores that are moving out and expands Brookside, conforming the the frontage code.

I'd hate to see Brookside be a victim of its success. Because it is a vibrant, eclectic, walkable district in a sea of cookie cutter commuter retail - it attracts national retailers. Who then turn it into cookie cutter commuter retail.

Could be great. I'm hoping so. But I have zero confidence that any planning commission or zoning commission in this city will dictate the ideals of the small area plan. (que "private property warbigable" argument)

Nope...They not goin in there....

Is that a new development?  One of the investors in the building told me that about 45 days ago.

Yes....Unless it has changed again.....

So, the good news is that this Trader Joe's is built right up to the sidewalk.
The bad news is that it's the side of the building that is facing the sidewalk.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

The separate wine annex is off the table.
http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/tulsa-trader-joes-delayed-2016-will-not-sell-liquo/nny26/

So, Jarboe, the ABLE Commission and others as well as the state constitution are as usual preventing choice and commerce just like Edward J. DeBartolo Sr had the horse racing commission in his hip pocket.

For a nominal cut of the action, I’d be willing to be that individual.

For a case of wine, indemnity against any lawsuit or other damages, and public credit - I'd be willing to be that individual.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/it-s-not-just-trader-joe-s-other-retail-space/article_46c9901d-66f3-59ee-b33e-727be5728bc5.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/it-s-not-just-trader-joe-s-other-retail-space/article_46c9901d-66f3-59ee-b33e-727be5728bc5.html)

Well that is some fine reporting right there.

We have got to get the stupid liquor laws in this state changed.

+1

So much for “pedestrian friendly”.  It is a pet peeve of mine when cars pull into crosswalks.  Here, on the south side of the TJ development, there is no choice if you don’t want to get clobbered by southbound traffic on Brookside.  Aesthetically, the development fits in great with some of the other retailers but I have to argue this type of up to the curb development is anything but pedestrian friendly when cars are forced to drive into the pedestrian right-of-way just to keep from getting hit.

(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q55/71conan/IMG_6488_zpstvgtwh4b.jpg)

Brookside crosswalks over Peoria are dangerous. Really terribly designed streets.

Yes, I dread the thought of what the City might do to M.B. Cherry Street between M.B. Pearl Ave and Utica -- or to M.B. Denver Ave between 13th St and 17th Place.

What would make it better, having the crosswalks further out?  I think slowing down traffic on Peoria would help solve the problem.  The medians between 33rd and 35th need to be extended all the way to 41st. 

If you've been to OKC they have redone Western Ave which is similar to Peoria through Brookside.  The traffic calming measures implemented there have really helped create a more pedestrian friendly area.
(http://iqc.ou.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/gatewayafter.jpg)

Look at what Broken Arrow did with it's Main Street.  I thought it would be a total mess, but has worked out very well.  No parallel parking, which helps with getting in and out of cars on the street. 

The thing that I thought would hurt the most actually has been pretty good - reduced the street to 2 lanes, with traffic slowing at each intersection.  VERY pedestrian friendly - we go there once in a while just to walk up and down the street!

Peoria looks like it could almost have a 3 lane approach - two traffic and a middle turn lane with the BA parking approach.  Room for more actual parking spaces, less danger to drivers getting out into traffic, and could have some decorative planters ala 'Rose District'.  And for a good portion of that stretch of road, de-emphasis as a main thoroughfare is needed anyway - it is crazy to try to keep it as 'thru-traffic' with the buildup that is going on there.

The real problem seems to be that Peoria carried over 20,000 cars per day between 41st & 31st before Riverside closed.  That is slightly more than Lewis. 

Squeezing down such a major arterial street is not going to be an easy task without a lot of unintended consequences to neighboring streets and could be detrimental to Brookside businesses.

Once Riverside is re-opened, I don’t think it would be quite as big a deal as drivers who are merely transiting the Brookside district would have the option of Riverside, Utica, or Lewis to by-pass a slower pace on the 31st to 41st corridor.

Interesting to note, I was in my Bronco yesterday when I snapped that pic.  It sits plenty high enough, but it was still a chore to see over the car parallel parked in front of the TJ development.

I’m not trying to bag on TJ’s nor the developer, but all of us walkability nerds have been of the belief that built up to the sidewalk means more pedestrian-friendly and I was dumb-founded when I realized the poor sight-line forced me to have to drive into the crosswalk in order to make a safe RH turn.

That looks like 41st and Western.  If so, then I agree, it's more pedestrian friendly than it was before the changes.

Improvements:

1. The crosswalk has been moved farther in, away from the corner radius.

2. The textured crosswalk pavement has been removed and replaced with asphalt, clearly painted white to indicate it's a crosswalk.

3. The angled parking on the west side of Western has been shifted to the curb, allowing a much wider sidewalk with tables, chairs, and umbrellas (plus better wheelchair access, I imagine).

4. A tree is shown in the median.  Some shade trees along the west curb would make it even better. 

Peoria from 31st to 41st needs to be one lane each way with a protected bike lane plus a turning lane. 25mph speed limit.

If I understood INCOG's numbers, those were traffic counts from before Riverside shutting down.  Undoubtedly, if you squeeze Peoria down to 2 lanes some traffic will migrate over to Riverside, Utica or Lewis.  However, there is a reason those folks weren't using those options before.

We gotta decide what Peoria is to be.  To the north, the street is so horribly inadequate width and texture that it is just a gawd awful mess!!  And it is way to narrow for 4 lane to the south of 33rd.  We gotta make up our minds what we want it to be, cause what it is now is blech!   We want to have it all, and that just ain't gonna happen!  Walkability, bike friendly, casual, 'feel good to be there' just does not mess at all with 20,000 cars - all wanting to travel at arterial street speeds of 40 mph!!  I am mildly surprised it isn't a blood-bath there from pedestrians being run down!   Again, Broken Arrow Main Street.  For all their other quirks and oddities, they really got that one right!!  

If we want to keep the street width, then move all the buildings back....yeah, like that could happen...!

We should also start to look at what to do on a longer term basis when an area becomes the latest "fad" location - Cherry Street - 15th east of Peoria.  Has renewed and rejuvenated tremendously.  Still a hot mess for traffic.  Still trying to jam too many lanes of cars into too little space - yeah, for Cherry street, two lanes is too many!  Close it down to automobiles for a few blocks and force the issue on walking/public transit/bikes, etc.  We have done that from time to time with Main Street, so why not??  Put a nice wide awning over the street for those blocks to allow all weather use of the lane to encourage all the foot activity.  If car dealers can afford dozens of acres of awnings, they gotta be cheaper than maintenance on the road !!

Or close it down to a single lane, one way - pick a direction!   Use the rest for all other forms of movement.  It is about 2,500 ft from Peoria to Utica - if there was an awning 16 ft wide, that is LESS than ONE ACRE of cover!!  A high end cover should still be less than $20 a sq ft, which would put us in at 3/4 million dollars or so.

Who is doing the QuikTrip and Kum & Go awning covers now?  Start there.....


Edit - make Peoria one way, too, from 31st to 41st, with one lane only as starting point to getting it right.

Are those numbers from INCOG's Traffic Count Map (https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=710c9600be594232870b64f1ed4d11e7)?

If so, the map shows 17,000 vehicles per day on 15th Street at Troost.  Most of 15th between Peoria and Utica has been narrowed to two lanes.  If two lanes work for 17,000 vehicles per day, then two lanes with a center turn lane ought to work on Peoria with 21,400 vehicles per day.

Peoria between 33rd and 41st has been spoiled by yet another City "streetscaping" project with rough, dangerous, expensive crosswalks and pavement gewgaw.   

Looks like we need a Brookside bypass.  Let's tear down dozens of houses and put in a 4-Lane bypass around the area with a 50 mph speed limit.   ;D

Can't have everything.

Or, better yet, close it off to automobiles and put in a (real) trolley for the mile.  Make all day passes available for the trolley similar to the all day passes in Munich Germany when I was there in 1995.

You can't fool me, you just took the pictures for the pedestrians.

It is more pedestrian friendly.  Park the Bronco and walk.  :D

on heironymouspasparagus point regarding Cherry Street.

One way actually seems like a pretty good option. 14th street, one block to the north, is already one way. So make 15th one way moving Westbound and you're set. Seems like a good option to me.

Peoria on the other hand...

My closest comparison off the top of my head is Lower Greenville in Dallas. It still has it's issues, but they did make it two lanes only with parallel parking. It's still an arterial (used to be THE highway before 75 was constructed). There is heavy traffic counts, and it is annoying driving 20 mph when all you are really trying to do is avoid HW 75. That I recall there were hardly any lights or stop signs, yet traffic was always creeping along because of the constant street crossers who had right of way. They may have added some calming measures since I have been, but when I was driving it, there was nothing. No raised crosswalks, no extended curbs, no nothing, heck the crosswalks weren't even painted all that well most of the time. But it was still better than driving down Peoria (Brookside).

The walk back to my office was a bit far and would have required walking across the I-44 river bridge.  ;D

I'm all for reducing to single-lane each way with a center turn lane, but closing it off entirely isn't really viable option.  The parking Logistics would be a major issue.  Closing off Peoria would force all parking to come in through the neighborhoods on each side, and would cause more issues than it addresses.

The neighborhood traffic has been a contentious issue for quite a while as it is now.

Closing it off may not be realistic but I was thinking of something like the Memphis Main St Trolley.  It's under a major reconstruction but it was fun when I was there nearly 10 years ago.

http://www.matatransit.com/services/trolleys/

https://goo.gl/maps/vNxQNFUfvjz

http://memphisdna.org/up-on-downtown/2016/7/1/mata-president-ron-garrison-trolley-before-after

It's too bad there is not really any space for a Park-and-Ride lot.

Edit: There would also have to be a trolley barn for storage and maintenance.

Signage going up today for the shops next door. The middle store is going to be a smoothie shop I've never heard of and the shop right next to Trader Joe's is going to be an ATT authorized retailer.

Smoothie shop seems decent but att???!!!! This debacle is on whoever is responsible for finding a tenant.  You are telling me there wasn't any better option?

Lame. It amazes me how many cell phone stores there can be. What can that possibly be about?

Making the mortgage payment.  I’m not excited about it either but it is a business after all.

Right. I get that the developer of the property will rent to any tenant who's willing to pay. My question was, how can there be so much demand for a cell phone store in every shopping center? There are some things people won't drive far for. Other stores that people will trek to out of state for. How did cell phones become something that you absolutely must have on every other block? Just drive to the damn store at 15th and Lewis or something. It's madness.

That's also going to be a humongous cell phone store.

They have to be on every corner. It the only thing they can find when their phone dies and they don't have the GPS navigation app to help them find anything further than a half mile.

I'm sure they like the visibility being right on Peoria gives them too. 

I’m guessing they have to be pretty profitable for there to be so many.  I get tired of predictable retail clutter as well, Rex.

I now have a board nickname!

Blaze Pizza will be going in there too.

Have you tried the one at the Walk at Tulsa Hills yet?

Surprisingly enough, no. I haven't heard anything about it from anyone.

It's pretty good, definitely not artisan but quick and well above average...

FINALLY a pizza joint is going in on brookside. I've been wanting one to go in around here since I moved to town two years ago. if they are halfway decent they should be successful, the only other pizza shops on Peoria are big delivery chains.

There hasn't been a good one on Brookside since Shakey's closed.