The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

NOW things are going to get real interesting.

Featured on 2 News last night, the Grille (formally known as McDermott's Grill) is now open in Phase II.

You actually have to drive around existing construction to get to this $1 Million plus investment. It is the same owners as Magoo's from what I understand, but this is a more upscale version, with live band stages both indoors and outdoors, a dance floor, pool, darts, shuffleboard, and a variety of restaurant food (hamburgers to lobster).

Nothing in between Los Cabos and Riverwalk Movies had turned a profit (except perhaps the Cigar Box) in five years, and now this huge puppy is open and ready--positioned even further down the parking lot, past current construction of a "rodeo" dance club.

This, IMO, is the equivalent of a troop surge in Afghanistan with nuclear weapons. The extreme amount of money invested in this operation--at a site plagued with bankruptcies and shattered business dreams, in the middle of a vicious recession, makes me want to break out the popcorn.

I guess we're going to find out if the old saying is true, "If you build it, they will come."

Here is their website:

http://mcdermottsgrille.com/mainpage.html (http://mcdermottsgrille.com/mainpage.html)

The website says they are going to open at 11:00am everyday, but given the ghost-town atmosphere of the Riverwalk at any location north of Los Cabos before 5:00pm, I just don't see how in the world that could work.

All that money!! Its like putting it on a roulette table that is two-thirds red, and betting on black.

All those pool tables, competing for adult entertainment when there is a huge, multi-gazillion dollar economy-sucking casino directly across the river!!

Monumental risk here.

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You are a real RWC hater, aren't you? Instead of waiting to see if it fails, why don't you patronize them instead?  Jim McDermott has done well for himself, give him some credit. That and the Tulsa economy isn't near as bad as the rest of the nation.

I never said I wanted him to fail. And I know he has made his money and is a smart local businessman.

That is why I am so baffled by this move. He's opening in a horrible location, at the wrong time of the year for the Riverwalk with summer ending, and during a recession.

One option I guess would be that he successfully supplants Los Cabos' business down to the other end, or he will have to draw in twice the crowd the Riverwalk is used to pulling.

Can this really be done? Is it the lure of the Los Cabos success that drives men to make these dangerous decisions?

I'm just commenting, not condemning anyone here.

I really wanted to see river development succeed, but the Riverwalk has had so many snags it has frustrated me.

Today, I read the history of the San Antonio River Walk, and learned a few things.

According to their timeline, we have another 40 years before the Jenks Riverwalk becomes successful. And the Jenks Riverwalk is not located adjacent to downtown, like the San Antonio River Walk, so potentially, without drawing a lunchtime business crowd, it may never take off.

As a fan of South Tulsa I never thought I'd say this, but unless the Riverwalk is pulled up and moved to downtown (or they build a new river that runs along 169 and 71st street :D ) this thing just isn't likely to survive.

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that's why i've been saying turn the whole place into a outlet mall.

Gina & Guiseppie's and Melting Pot?
Also, the Sub Station has been there from the beginning.

Is Lewis and Clark Outfitters still planned for phase II ?

FunHouse has been there awhile as well.

Damn the facts...

I don't think you have to be a River Walk hater to observe that it has a high restaurant failure rate and that any significant investment there is a big risk.  I know three people who opened and closed restaurants there.  All said weekday foot traffic was non-existent and weather/season played a huge factor for the evenings.  Los Cabos does well, but doesn't seem to have much spillover effect on the others.

Individually, you can probably go through every failed RWC restaurant and take issue with concept, execution and/or management.  Collectively, however, that's a lot of failure in one area.

I rarely go to RWC simply because it is way too far for me to drive to eat a hamburger or Tex-Mex.  However, I want it to be successful because success would encourage Tulsa to make a serious investment in river develpment.  Unfortunately, based on its history to date, I think RWC's viability is still an open issue.

   I think it will be more viable once its all done.  I also think it was a mistake to have The Grille open clear at the other end and not at least have construction going on between the two parts so that the "walk" along the whole thing is interesting.  Can you even walk between one end and the other,  or is there no "walk" there yet?  

   I also think the RW is evolving towards, and should have anyway, an entertainment/restaurant/younger crowd/destination type place.  Some of the shops that opened there early on I was like...."Nobody is going here to shop for this." A mix of teen, young preppy adult, type stuff will do well imo.  A Lewis and Clark Outfitters and cafe/bookstore would fit the bill.  

  There are 2 reasons I would go to a place like the Riverwalk.

   When this situation arises...

"Where do you want to go eat? I don't know, lets go some place different, and it would be nice to get out a bit and go for a walk.... OH, lets go to the Riverwalk."

 or this....

We have friends/company visiting and need to entertain them for a few days and want to show them around Tulsa.  The Riverwalk gets on the list with (Downtown, Brookside and Cherry Street, and the Utica Square area including Philbrook).  Those are the options, plus perhaps a casino, your not gonna take people to the mall or 71st for goodness sakes.  You have breakfast, lunch and dinner, the times in between, plus something to do in the evening,,, you can run out of things to do and places to show people rather quickly in this town.  The Riverwalk, especially once its all done, is another nice place to have a stroll, eat, drink, etc.

  Other than those two instances, thats pretty much it for me and the people I know. I am also suprised at the number of people who have never been to the Riverwalk, and or dont even know it exist.  But that seems to be par for the course in this town.  

I live in Jenks and I hardly ever go except for going to the movies down there.  I went to go see a 9:30 movie and there was about 8 people in the theater and probably only saw 20 or 30 people in the theater at about 9:00.  The Riverwalk on the theater end was dead (as it should be since only the boat bar is open now).

I have to agree with activity in the theater.  Every time I have gone there is generally nobody around.  Hence it is usually my first choice for going to a movie. 

Sub Station has been closed for over a year. There is no quick food option open there any longer. Gary's Grill was the first casualty.

A Subway has opened in the strip center before the Riverwalk entrance. That is the closest fast food option from the center.

Gina & Guiseppies, Melting Pot and Fun House have survived, but I would bet that (as I stated) their corporate taxes at the end of each year do not reflect a profit.

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I'm rooting for The Grille to hit it big, I just think its a tough gamble.

Spoke with another associate today that suggested that these guys (McDermott and his partners) have the resources to survive a couple of terrible years along the way toward paving a successful operation. Other Riverwalk startups (like JooJoo Bees) did not.

Question is, will the center itself build up, or continue to slide like it has over the last few years.

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I would say a lot depends on how the success of the Village on Main.  It seems to be on track and will provide a place for new restaurants and shops with better access just across the bridge on Main St.  What happens with the River District could also have an impact.  That is why I think the River District should focus more, or solely, on new residential development and create something unique like New Urbanism. 

One of the issues (?) of the Riverwalk is that it seems disconnected from Jenks.  The road in is not difficult but somehow it seems like going in someone's private driveway.  Then your view is a parking lot and the back of most of the buildings, not very inviting.  This might be a place for building with two front sides.  I drive home from work through Jenks on Main St.  The Riverwalk is "over there somewhere".  The River District, being on the south side of the turnpike may have similar perception problems, kind of like being on the "wrong" side of the IDL.  The Village on Main has a good chance for success, in my opinion, because it will be "right there" even though it is several blocks from the older part of downtown.

Edit: add photos (I hope)
The River View strip center is easy to see and see what's there.  The store fronts are visible.

Gary's Grill definitely falls under the poorly executed column

I agree with Red Arrow. It is just weird the way you have to get there. It has been a few years since I have been out there so changes have probably been made.
I just was not to impressed with pulling up to the parking lot and looking at the back of the buildings and not really knowing what stores were there.
At the time I went the parking lot was not big enough to handle the amount of traffic for the Leon Russell concert that night. We ended up parking way North in a gravel and grass kind of area. Living in B.A. I just feel the driving distance is a little to great to offset the benefit of going to the Riverwalk.

My wife and her sister went this weekend.  Their vodka tonic tasted like water and they sent it back and ordered a beer.  They remade the drink and got the beer for her.  THe vodka tonic was still so bad they sent it back (so bad it wasn't worth free).  I guess it took 45 minutes from sending the drink back, getting a remade drink, getting a beer.

We went this weekend. It’s a huge and kinda odd room. Just one big open space with a stage on one side and games off in the corner. We tried to play some of the games they have, but they don’t have that many and someone had rented most of them for his party (they rent by the hour) and no one could use them despite no one playing one them.

It’s not a good location. I don’t see the point of this place being at the Riverwalk at all. They are completely isolated from the rest of the Riverwalk. It’s 500 yards at least across a big construction site from the movie theater. The Riverwalk was jam packed when we went and it was so far you could barely hear the crowds. It’s so far that when we left to go somewhere else at Riverwalk we got in the car and drove. Even worse, it mostly ignores the river, has no windows just some cheap wood picnic  tables and cheesy Tiki hut looking things outside that no one was sitting at. It’s basically a big kinda dressed up blues themed dive bar/pool hall and I really don’t think that’s Jenks’ or the Riverwalk’s demographic at all.

The service was downright terrible. We sat at one table for more than ten minutes and waitresses would walk around us and never come over. So we changed tables closer to the band and it was at least five minutes or so before someone finally came over there. All this despite the place being pretty empty and there being at least 8-10 wait staff just standing around chatting by the bar. Then our drinks took ten minutes.

We did had an appetizer that was pretty good and the band was good but the execution even for a new place was bad and very little thought was given to the layout or seemingly the business in general. If they don’t change a lot and quickly I don’t think it will last long, and wouldn’t even in a perfect location.

I read in another thread that they are going to have an upstairs VIP area. I don't mean to offend anyone but are there that many VIP's in Jenks or the surrounding area?

We've got different standards to define VIP's here.

We drove by over the weekend.
I have to agree with everyone concerning "the Grille's" location..
It may possibly be worse than Diamond Jack's location @ 71st & Yale.
Actually... with the big gap/construction between the Grille and the movie theater.. and the way it's hidden behind the theater...   we definitely have a winner.

The theater is supposed to have river-facing retail at some point, that is why the entrance faces south.

I'm surprised some of you guys are giving it such bad reviews so early.

I was just there (at midnight on a Monday) testing the "We're going to be open from 11:00am to 2:00am 365-days a year" mantra that is on their website.

Only customers in the whole place are 2 guys shooting pool off in the corner. I order a drink and sit on the couch and read a book.  ;)

Yeah, opening a business in Jenks is straight up dangerous.

But the drink was good. The atmosphere is nice. This place could compete in a Dallas market. Its that nice.

However, the 11:00am thing is where they are really going to have to re-examine their strategy. You could have Jesus and the Beatles preaching and doing a concert at the same time at the Riverwalk at 11:00am, and on a school day (September thru May), you could not gather 15 people there (even if Christ's 12 apostles showed up).

Also, I agree on the location comments.

Opening up in the middle of a corn field in Nebraska would net a larger lunch crowd, because then the occasional farmer would stop in for a bite to eat. At the Riverwalk, no one has eaten a Monday-Friday lunch anywhere past Los Cabos. Ever.

SO like I said, this place is actually quite nice, but putting it here is like fighting Afghanistan with a troop surge and nuclear weapons. Will they win?

I'm giving them 30% odds. Why so high? Because those apartments next to them are corporately leased, and bring in new clientele every month, and because the night life may grow exponentially out there, bringing them enough late business that a 5:00pm-2:00am strategy pays off.

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What kind of drugs are you guys on?  The extra "E" in "Grille" after "grill" signifies upscale, class, and some sort of piece of heated metal which burns raw meat in a superior manner as opposed to a regular plain assed grill.

You bring up a classic mistake that pretty much all of the failed Riverwalk businesses have made.

They try to market themselves as "upper class" which means higher prices.

That drink I ordered at The Grille was $10. Have I been back since? No. Like I mentioned earlier, the atmosphere is nice, but for that price, I have many other places around town to choose from.

From Gary's Grill on to this new McDermott Grille, this mistake has been made. If you are going to charge more at the Riverwalk for something than you would at a different location, then you will fail.

Los Cabos serves reasonably priced mexican food. Melting Pot and Marble Slab are set-priced franchises. Gina & Guiseppe's is priced comparably to other Italian places. Fun House did not change their pricing structure when they moved to the Riverwalk.

These businesses are still standing. The others (close to 20 of them now) have failed because Tulsa/South Tulsa/Jenks... whatever, is made up of regular customers.

As delusional as Riverwalk investors want to be, they cannot change the fact that it is not a tourist destination like Orlando, where new customers are brought in every couple of weeks. The McDermott Grille is banking on the corporately leased apartments next to it to bring in new people every few weeks, but this is just one apartment, and they won't get rich off of that.

If you do business here, you serve the same customer base all year long. So charge them $10 for a drink and kiss them good-bye, because you won't see them again.

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BTW, Calistoga appears to have shut down this weekend, bringing the total number of failed Riverwalk businesses to about 20.

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Oh boy I get to tell my story!!

I went there for lunch one day and asked for a pizza + artichoke hearts.  We got half way through the pizza and realized.  Guess what, no artichoke hearts (it is kind of a distinct taste).  I still had about 25% of the pizza and when they brought the bill said, there was no artichoke hearts on the pizza.  Please take off the $1, "I'll be right back".  Come back, "The chef said that they put artichoke hearts on the pizza".  So I flip over the 25% of the cheese and ask her to "find the artichoke hearts" which she did manage to find an onion.  And continued to argue with me.  Finally I said, fine, I will pay the $1.  At which point she told me she would take the $1 off.  I have been back once because my wife insisted since it has been opened.  I don't plan on going there again.

Just my take on River Walk from what I have read here over the last couple of years, and I mean this in general not specific. This area was built around the aquarium and some up and coming resturaunts and bars late in the upswing of the market. Bad timing and as a tourist attraction it was limited. (I won't get into Indian Casinos because I have the same feeling about the ones in Arizona that most of you have in Oklahoma.) I'm not saying that their overall thinking was wrong, just that too many things coincided to make the area difficult to develop. The places that were thought of were good ideas to draw patrons and create return customers, but when you price it above the local watering holes, and the drinks and food are crappy at best from most of the comments I've read, you have doomed yourself. If I want to drink, and price and location is a concern, I would go to the local/nearest bar for a $5.00 premium drink over a place with a $5.00 call drink. The sad thing is for Jenks is you can go to RW and pay a premium for food and drink in an upscale place, or go across the river to a Indian Casino and get more for less. I know that I'm preaching to the chior to most people, and I wish Jenks well, I took my drivers test there in 1978, but it just does not sound like a winning proposition for RW.

The only thing worse than grill being spelled "grille" is shops being spelled "shoppes".  If one redundant letter is douchey, two is just plain wrong.

Doesn't Bixby have the "Pizza Shoppe?"

Try "Towne Centre" we be so kool.

A place that sells grilled pizzas called "The Pizza Shoppe Grille at Towne Centre"

ROFL  :D

Went there last Friday night with my girlfriend and daughter. Promptly got seated by the hostess who happened to go to school with my daughter. The weather was nice so all the outdoor seating areas were taken. The inside was pretty full except for about 10-15 tables that were "reserved" near the music stage. So we sat in the back right in front of the bar. We sat there for nearly 30 minutes without a single waiter/waitress stopping to take a drink order. I know it's Friday and the establishment is new, but it doesn't take 5 seconds to at least stop and greet us. Not a single word was spoken to us and numerous waitress' walked right by us. We got up and went to Red Rock instead.
The place overall is very nice inside and out. They just need to work on some customer service. I do hope they succeed but they really need to work on this aspect of business.

^^Another bad review.  :(

Maybe The Grille management doesn't understand how the Riverwalk works yet.

Monday thru Thursday, its like that obscure 80's movie, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quiet_Earth_(film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quiet_Earth_(film)), a complete ghost-town. Maybe one or two people walking about. Like a scary Twilight Zone Episode of post-apocalypic desertion.

Friday and Saturday 7:00pm - 2:00am its a Michael Jackson concert. You have to make ALL your money during those 14 critical hours of the week. So they better staff-up and start doing it right, or all that pretty stuff is going to end up in the next History Channel Episode of "Life After People."

 

The Grille is no longer open on Mondays.

I did see a History Channel crew making the rounds over there today though. I think the van said, "Life After People."

 ::)

I don't believe it! Someone other than me that know's the movie "The Quiet Earth"

Stone,
It wouldn't make it as an outlet mall, either.  Tulsa area just won't support that kind of place.

There was one in Broken Arrow years ago, that is now a Battle Creek church.

There was the other one in stroud that sucked so bad it disappeared.

Outlet Malls of America was a bad business model, and it was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The Tanger Mall in Stroud had a good start, but was still wrong place wrong time. There is an outlet mall in far north Phoenix http://www.outletsanthem.com/ (http://www.outletsanthem.com/) that has been in business for about 15 years, and is still a big draw. It was a big draw before Del Webb built Anthem across the highway. You have to have the right stores. In the first 11 years that I lived in Phoenix, I bought alot of shoes just from the Nike, and espescially the Reebok Store, especially when you go to the Reebok store and you can get three pairs for the price of two, and spend $80.00 to buy two. An outlet mall would work in Tulsa and be a draw, if it catered to the average person. I don't mean that as an insult to Oklahomans, just a reallity.

Yes the buildings got sucked up in 1999 by the tornado that started in Moore.

Tanger in Stroud had a problem within a year after it opened in the fact that it was approximately 50 miles from Tulsa, and 50 miles from OKC. By the time that you drove there and paid the gas, and paid the tolls on the Turner, your savings weren't that great. Depending on where you drove from, you would pay (at that time) $3.00 to $5.00 in gas, potentially $4.50 in tolls, and another 7% in tax. So there really wasn't a real savings.

While being in the middle of OKC/TUL when gas was about $1 to $1.25/gal looked like a great business model, it's obvious that since Stanley Tanger collected the insurance check and decided to not rebuild that it wasn't that comfy of a living in Stroud.  However, they claim to continue to operate 30 some malls around the U.S.  I'm not sure what was wrong with this location other than it was an awkward on/off from the turnpike and if you simply needed to take a leak and walk the dog, you could do that at the rest stop a mile west in the middle of the 'pike.  It was more like a pit stop than the mall.  We also had a large explosion of retail around the Tulsa and OKC metros during that time as well which didn't help.

Another reason to get rid of turnpikes!!  Economic development!!  Jobs!!

It did well enough to stay in business, but not well enough to do it again.

Most successful outlet malls are either on the outskirts of large metropolitan cities or in heavy tourist destinations.  I'm pretty sure Stroud doesn't qualify as either.  I doubt Tulsa is large enough to support an outlet mall - probably why we don't have one.

As to The Grille on Riverwalk - is it really possible to support the rent for this large location with only 2 busy nights a week (especially during the winter months)?

Both The Grille and the Midnighte Rodeoe have a very limited life span.  We went out there Saturday night and the RW was packed all the way to the theater, but there were only about 3 cars on the new side by the Grille and Rodeoe.  We drove by just to see if they were open and you could see employee noses pressed against the glass doors looking for customers.

There's no anchor on that side of the walk.  They don't have a chance.

You are closer to the truth than you think, according to a reliable source that I know.  One of them will not see the New Years dawn. 

LMAO wow..that just made me LOL -

I am going to place a bet on Midnight Rodeo. Just a hunch, but thats my guess.

LOL, yeah I'm a big Sci-Fi fan.

As for which one is about to close, I think it is The Grille.

The whole reason I started this thread was because I couldn't believe the investment I saw in such a bad location. If he would have just talked to me first, I could have saved that guy so much money and aggravation.

The Riverwalk destroys people. Los Cabos is the only anomaly. God Himself must have said, "Jim Blacketer, you have done many things in your life, and now is YOUR time. You shall succeed here" (and in fairness to Blacketer, the outdoor cabana by the River with music was a great concept, one that other's tried to repeat up and down the walk, to no avail).

But seriously, Los Cabos isn't even that great of a Mexican restaurant, IMO. And yet he hit a home run there, and continues to expand. EVERYONE else at the Riverwalk regrets their decision, and Cabos' success was the lure that drew them in.  

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And I'm going to add that I found it quite amusing that Jerry Gordon made the news the other day for harassing the mayor's office about a Tulsa River Development contract or some garbage.

Putting Gordon in charge of something so large (based on his last failure in that area), or giving him a contract to begin such development, would be like promoting Hamid Karzai to emperor of China.

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Gina and Guiseppe's is also good. As is Melting Pot, if you're into that sort of thing. Both seem to do good business, although probably not nearly what Los Cabos does. It's not their fault that the Oklahoma palate only accepts mexican, slabs of cow (mmm..steak), and fast food.

I think The Grille is officially closed. They haven't opened all week. Just drove by there about an hour ago. All the lights are off.

It's 4:55pm on Wednesday, December 22nd, and I'm calling it.

He's dead, Jim.

How long was it open.....

I looked at their web site and it said Tues. to Sun. 4:00 until 2:00, but then again a website can live past the end of a business. You may be right. I will await further news.

The time line in the tread shows it opening in mid to late August. Some one correct me if I'm wrong.

we had planned a christmas party there for this past Sun night, only to show up at 630 and it was closed on Sundays.  So we went to Los Cabos.  For a sunday night, it was fairly busy.  Not a waiting list or anything, but the patio was full, as was probably 85% of the rest.

For grins and giggles I called their number and it goes to a generic mailbox, "You have reached the voice mail box of 918-995-2834 please leave a message after the tone", sounds pretty terminal.

Just saw a movie at the Riverwalk... didn't even go out of my way to check on the status of the place. 

Q:  where's the grille?
A:  go to the end of the Riverwalk..... then go behind it and keep going..

can't believe it failed

Did they not have a couple mill in the dirt alone......

I though this place from other peoples discussions that this place had the capital to help them survive, and they were part of Magoo's at Fontana? If it has closed, it's sad that it happened. Looking at some of the pics people have posted, you could drive by River Walk and not know what's there. Even the video on their website it did not seem that busy.

  I had gone there once with some friends.  Well, almost.  We thought we would check it out.  Went inside and took a look at it, then turned around and left (after faking a look at the menue lol).  It looked like a large, western, dance floor/bar type space.  It was way to open and desolate feeling inside. To open to feel comfortable, and without many other people in there, we would have felt uncomfortable sitting at a table in that vast space. Was odd.  They needed to brake that large space up imo.   

I better let Peter Mayo know that it doesn't look like Bradio will get their February booking there

I've long been a believer that "if you build it they will come".  By this I mean your location (without extreme circumstances- IE Nebraska corn field) is NOT a substantial determining factor to long term success.  Additionally, by "building it" I am referring to the process of  making it the place you want it to be - the type of place a guest will not only try, but one which they will return to, and refer friends as well.  The 3 big factors in the hospitality business are service, product quality, and ambiance.  If all 3 of these are mastered, a one time guest will become a regular who helps grow your business with the most effective, least expensive form of advertising ................. word of mouth.  If you are good enough, guests will come no matter how inconvenient Jenks Riverwalk seems to be located.  
Confession: I have been in restaurant and bar management for several years.  Upon moving from Denver to Tulsa in June of 2009, I found the job market as expected - difficult to break into.  I looked for a start-up company, locally owned, where-in I could enter at ground level and move back up to management.  I bartended at the Grille from the time it opened, until mid November, when I resigned as ......... a bartender.
This venue was run into the ground by the management, more than anything.  To prove that Im not merely a disgruntled employee trying to bad mouth the place, I'll give you specifics of what went wrong in their business:
The big 3 factors to success, as mentioned above are
1.) SERVICE- This was a joke, from the time we showed up for orientation and training (before the Grille was opened).  We had approximately one hour to learn the POS system, computer program with which product is ordered from the bar and kitchen.  This POS system was horrible and it was CLEAR before we opened that it was inadequate.  I warned of some of its shortcomings before we opened, but it fell on deaf ears.  Two weeks after opening, at 8:00 on a Friday night the system was swapped out for a better system.  After that, we opened.  Yeh, it was that simple.  We opened with no training, no levels of expectations, no coaching except for an occasional passive aggressive outburst of anger from a frustrated manager, who was incapable of 'leading'.  The GM said, "we arent a place for people to learn how to do this job.  We want people who can step in and perform without training".  This theory would be wrong, but at least it would make sense if the overwhelming majority of the service staff wasnt completely inexperienced and green.  The average age of the service staff was roughly 20, most of which had little experience, or negative experience.  Thats fine if all your applicants are young, but they must be mentored in the business by capable leadership.  
The GM was absolutely, hands down the most incompetent I've ever witnessed.  She dated one of my fellow bartenders - need I say why this isnt a good idea?  Every Friday and Saturday night, as the place finally started to get rockin', she would "cut from the service floor" her favorite fraternity of employees (all of which were Magoo's transfers) and she would start getting drunk with them on the patio, where she remained until closing time.  We would ring her up a tab for her cronies and her, then she would simply void it all when she was ready to leave.  This isnt a joke - its what literally happened every single week, except one Saturday, where she and her "bar manager" went to Norman to watch OU play.  She simply did not know how to develop staff, nor how to face a problem and make a PROACTIVE business decision about it.  Management floor presence was severely lacking, disabling them from being able to trouble shoot problems and issues.  In this case they could have come up with a proactive solution to the issues, be it food quality issue, or coaching concern with a service staff member.  She fraternized heavily with hourly staff.  She was a REACTIVE manager, rather than proactive.  She was unprofessional in her dealings with employees who need coaching to improve.  The most profitable aspect of a bar, liquor sales, was not accounted for in any way.  They literally never did an inventory to determine liquor %.  Every bartender had a different way they made drinks, and most used different amounts from the standard 1 1/4 ounce industry standard.  Why should they not?  There was no accountability from management.  Here's a little secret:  Sit at the bartop, TIP WELL and your drink will never taste weak or watered down.  Its the guests who sit in the other areas of the building who, depending on the bartender, will get weak drinks.  Not that liquor cost accountability ever happened at the Grille, but if it did, then a bartender tries to make up for lost liquor from the strong bartop drinks, by pouring the ones for the coctail waitresses weaker.  As for me, I poured ALL of my drinks strong at the Grille, so I never had to remake a drink for the coctail servers, and tips were better for everyone.  Besides, nobody seemed to care one way or the other.  
Twice, we had mandatory "all front of house employees" meetings, where-in we were to discuss issues regarding guest complaints and service issues.  For both meetings there was no more than 20% of the employees in attendance, and as expected there was no actual consequence for not being there - just empty threats ahead of time.  So in these meetings the owners would express concern of some service issues they were aware of.  The employees would listen somewhat attentively, as the tone was certainly not jovial.  Then the management, the GM in particular, would start bitching everyone (20% of the actual staff) out, threatening that there was a stack of applications on her desk of people who wanted their jobs.  They had best start doing this, that, and the other right, or they wouldn't hesitate to fire them.  You see, the owners and management at the Grille were aware of the service issues, but they were incapable/ had no knowledge of how to actually lead a staff and how to correct and develop them into the employees they needed.  All they knew how to do was beat the employee with words of disgust, then send them off with their tail between their legs, like a scolded dog, to go wait on their tables.  The other 80% of the service staff pretty much was off the hook from the brow-beating, and thus was never "taught" how to do their job.     *Funny*
2.) PRODUCT QUALITY- Rarely were standards verified in the bar.  When they were, then there was again ............ no accountability.  Drinks were inconsistent and often cocktail servers were too far “in the weeds” to pick drinks up from the service bar in a timely manner, ensuring they were cold and fresh.  As for the kitchen, the food could have been pretty good , but they kept compromising their concept menu due to loss in profitability.  Labor in the kitchen was probably high, though the GM wasn’t proactive to ensure labor was kept at a minimum.  Product consistency and standards were non-existent, as was an effective system at expediting food while it was still hot and fresh.  On busy Friday and Saturday nights there was no adequate system at executing and coordinating the production of an order.
3.) AMBIANCE- The building was nice, the equipment was very nice as well.  The sound stage and lighting for the stage was top notch for what anyone could have expected in such a venue.  It did, however lack “character” and often felt like a huge wide open warehouse, without defined spaces.  The lighting for all areas except the stage and bartop itself was merely an afterthought.  Music was sometimes played when a live band wasn’t on stage, and sometimes it wasn’t.  The music often was odd and didn’t fit the demographic of the typical Grille guest.  Often times when there was a live band, the sound was absolutely cranked to an uncomfortable level, while a mere handful of guests played pool, or drank at the bar.  A very common guest complaint would be “hey, could someone play some music that doesn’t suck?”  Every once in a while a really good band (Octane Blue, Another Alibi, etc) would take the stage and the musical ambiance of the place would be great.  

Without these 3 important factors (all of which encourage guests to return to your hospitality business),  the place was doomed to fail.  Then  there’s the whole back office business aspect of it.  The overhead was incredibly high.  Cost control mechanisms such as liquor cost% were nonexistent, as mentioned above.  Marketing was ineffective.   And employee development was an absolute failure.  
As I began plotting my exit from the place, they were attempting to rebrand themselves as a dance club named The Grille by day, Secrets by night.  On their facebook page (though its different now) their profile picture was a headshot of a very attractive female who once bartended for the Grille, but only days earlier left the Grille to go work for a new dance club opening at the Riverwalk – The District.  Hilarious!  When I put in my notice to leave, I spent about 45 minutes with a wife of the owner, who is somewhat active in the back office aspect of the business, doing payroll and the like.  I mentioned the frustrations as she listened attentively.  Sadly enough, her only defensive comments for the place were ones in defense of her inadequate GM.  In my opinion, the GM was the number one problem.  A GM must ensure that the managers under them are doing their job, and doing so in a professional manner.  When they are not, things go wrong.  When things go wrong you have to solve the problem and come up with a solution.  Proactive, and preemptive measures must be taken to curtail failures in all aspects of the business; service, product quality, ambiance, profitability, etc.
The service manager quit and now is at The District night club at the Riverwalk. The bar manager, since I left the place, got in a tiffy with the GM, because she was harassing him about a relationship he had with a cocktail server.  He walked out on the spot.  The GM, I presume is now out of a job, as her previous position at Magoo’s is likely filled.

Thanks for the insight! It's not often to hear a constructive criticism of a business by a former employee. I have to tell you that I haven't been to Tulsa, let alone The Grille, in about 6 years, but from some of the descriptions by people that had, and the video on the website, it looked like it tried to be too many things, and didn't manage to do any of them well, and the thing I noticed was the stage/dance floor right next to the dining area, and from your's and others description of the undefined space inside, it would not be a place I would go for dinner. I like the outside beach bar theme with a stage and dancing, hell they could have thrown in beach volleyball court as well, and kept the inside a dining area and a seperate bar area.

Just my $.02

They were almost a jack of all trades.  By far, never a master of any. 
Yes, the proximity of the main dining room was in an odd location and resulted in many problems.  This would have been more apparent if management listened to guests and employees, who could have told them this early in their adventure.  This was, however, another major downfall of theirs - they did not seek out opinion of guests or employees.  Employees can be a huge asset from which to gain info, as they're on the front line with the guest continually.
Ideas and constructive criticisms while the place was "save-able" always fell on deaf ears.

That doesn't just happen in the service industry, believe me.  When companies grow too large they then tend to believe the employee doesn't serve as meaningful a purpose.  The problem is exactly the same, just on a larger scale, because then, instead of pissing off 1 employee, you compound it by pissing off hundreds.  I've worked for corps like that.  They usually don't last long.

So has it actually closed? If so, that is one of the shortest openings I've heard of. I've only scene one shorter than that and that one was about 6 to 8 weeks.

I have to agree with that strongly. Only, many corporations last a long time blaming the employees and managers for their problems. Employees and low level managers seem to serve a fairly simple role in business these days. That of being the lowest paid, the scapegoats for failure and of no consequence in success. My closest circle of friends, who are over 50, have all commented that the skills necessary to manage businesses these days (not just how to secure start-up funding and count the money) have all but been ignored or overlooked. Personnel management skills are non existent. You can only get those skills from experience in real world business operations. Like Scanman above alluded to, start from the bottom, gain insight and take those insights with you as you move upward. All parties benefit. Now lower level employees who actually talk with customers, hear their problems and who see the simple solutions that GM's are not privy to are not even considered worthy of anything more than threats and browbeating.  I doubt the Grille is managed much different than other startups around town. I was impressed with the comments by JoeMamma's owner on this forum that indicate he may actually value his workers as much as his himself. Rare.

Unfortunately, often those with real experience, wisdom and creativity are being ignored or kicked aside in favor of technologically savvy, socializing mba's with almost no people skills. Fine if you're running an internet mail order business but a deficit for running people intensive businesses like restaurants.

Well with the number of people looking for work and there is a significant amount in the F&B industry, they can just plow through people to get who they want. There is a place across the street from where I work, a national place called Boston's Pizza, http://www.bostons.com/bostonswall/ (http://www.bostons.com/bostonswall/)

they closed on a Friday after lunch, without informing the dinner staff to not show up for work. We had made arrangements with them for a department HH just before Christmas, and someone found out at 4:30 they were closed. Fortunately Buffalo Wild Wings next door extended an offer to us for our gathering and thats where we ran into the people from Boston's who said they had "No clue" the place was closing.

It's ok.  It's more of a novelty than anything else (IMO).  I went two or three times (one in Shreveport, twice in Springfield MO) before they opened the one here.  It feels a little more like TGIF morphed into a sports bar.  Although it was fun at the one in Shreveport (on the Riverwalk there).  I wasn't real impressed with the food.

Wings are a little splurge I'll do about once every two or three months, if that.

Hooters is still the best wings when it comes to restaurant hot wings.  And no, it's not just the atmosphere.  Personally I find it not much different than the hustle at a strip club, so I usually take a female companion with me so I will get good service, but not annoying service. 

As far as variety flavors I do like BWW and Wing Stop.

Conan I have to agree. H8ters has the best hot wings. I like the crunchy breaded type of wing.
As for the scenery, it is alway's nice but as I have aged. It seems that I am getting less and less of the annoying attention "sniff" "sniff"

"H8ters" sounds like some place that might advertise "the only dark-skinned people you find here are the ones doing the dishes".

I think you meant H00ters...   ;D

Ahh you are right Sir Patric. Your double Os look better than my feeble attempt at h00mour.

You nailed it.  Missed the closing comments since it was so close to Christmas and just drove by.  While going to see source code with the 2 other people in the theater.  I did figure out how to get the riverwalk going.  Give the Grille location to Eskimo Joe's rent free for 5 years.  If you can even get them to open a new location.  2 more people came in.  That makes 5 people.  Must be raking it in.  At least the lights on the stairs work in this theater.

Scanman,
It ain't just the restaurant industry.  I have been in several industrial settings very much like that.  Here in Tulsa.

And we are seeing the nationally publicized version in the public sector going on right now in Wisconsin with their so-called "governor".

Huh?

BKDotCom,
Commentary on posting 61 from ScanMan, previous page.

I guess I need to annotate better....