The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

A friend of mine lives on campus at TU and I've been spending some time on campus.  The campus is really beautiful and well laid-out, and the skyline views from the library are fantastic.  I am still not a big fan of their 'front door' expansion but it has grown on me, mainly because of all the large trees they have planted which makes it look better.  I still would like to see those same apartments actually front the sidewalk on 11th instead of the fence and parking that is there now, and it would also be nice to see more sidewalks criss-crossing and landscaping on the new grassy oval.  

The whole point of the 'front door' project was to open up the campus to 11th Street.  In many ways TU has always turned its back to 11th and because of that it lacks any sort of urban character with fast food restaurants and small strip malls dominating that stretch of road across the street from the university.  Obviously it would be nice to have a 'Campus Corner'-like area here with the same and new restaurants/shops but in an urban format fronting the sidewalks and campus.  Something like that would probably have to be initiated by TU working with private developers and landowners.  

To get this started and to enhance the presence of TU throughout the city, I propose renaming 11th Street to University Blvd. from Elgin downtown (where it splits into 10th & 11th) east to the Creek Turnpike.  That would help brand any new district created along 11th by TU as the University district, and other redevelopment along 11th from Peoria to Delaware would be 'on University' just like stuff on 15th between Peoria and Utica is 'on Cherry Street' or on Peoria between 31st and 41st is 'on Brookside' and so on.  While the renaming would be mostly limited to changing addresses and street signs it would hopefully coincide with sidewalk/streetscaping improvements from at least downtown to TU.

With regards to the fence: while I don't like it, I certainly understand why it was installed. When I attended TU, there were a LOT of car and apartment break-ins. The students demanded that TU address the situation. TU decided to create entrance/exit chokeholds through which all traffic had to pass, thereby making it easier to patrol. I don't think you'll see the fencing go away for several years, or at least until the area just west of the campus is re-developed/gentrified.

I do like the University Blvd idea. There are several 1920s-1940s buildings in the area, plus a couple that have adopted the look of TU buildings (like the dental group at 11th and Indianapolis) that have maintained a nice street-front presence. The only downside I see is that there hasn't been as much of a grassroots push to revitalize 11th street as I have seen for 6th street/Pearl district. You'll certainly have a lot of support from Renaissance neighborhood (who has been working for at least 10 years to revitalize their neighborhood), and Maria Barnes can probably help with Kendall-Whittier.

I would vote for 6th St to be University Blvd. Its "more downtown" than 11th St

The problem with the area west of campus is the large number of small, lower-income apartment complexes interspersed with the houses.  Renaissance didn't have those which is why I think that area has done so well.  TU has been actively buying property in that area for years now, I wonder what their future plans are for campus expansion?  I'd rather see more student townhomes built than more large apartment complexes.  Or apartments with street level retail/restaurants across from campus or along 11th west of Delaware.  In another thread I mentioned how 11th crosses the tracks just west of Lewis, and how that would be a great place for a stop on a future light rail line to BA and, with abandoned or industrial buildings around it, a perfect place for TOD.  

I see 6th staying a primarily residential street from TU to Utica with a small commercial strip from Utica to Peoria where there are existing commercial storefronts and where the canal will go.  11th/University is already a commercial corridor that with more infill and new businesses could be the longest urban 'strip' in the city connecting TU and surrounding neighborhoods to downtown, specifically Elgin where we are trying to build up more businesses through Blue Dome and up past the ballpark to OSU.  This could be the shot in the arm the neighborhoods to the north and south of 11th between Peoria and Harvard need to further gentrify.  With the exception of Renaissance by TU many of those neighborhoods are still pretty rough, though I've noticed the neighborhoods just west of Renaissance towards Lewis are getting better.  Many people who want to live in midtown but can't afford it are attracted to these areas.  I almost bought a place near Renaissance before I found a place in Swan Lake.

Just look at what has happened in Brookside and Cherry Street and the neighborhoods on either side.  I don't see 11th/University being like those though and would have to develop its own identity.  Playing up the Route 66 history is important.  Maybe add more neon similar to the Meadow Gold sign.  Maybe it could be a focus for ethnic restaurants, of which there are already several and *should* be more being so close to a diverse university like TU.

  If I were king for a day... I would build a block wide, linear park between two streets that went from the TU library lawn towards downtown connecting to the Pearl District.  Then zone it to have 2 to 6 story buildings up to wide sidewalks, on either side of the park.  The school could grow the campus towards downtown in  part of the area.  There could be a hospital corridor in the middle, then the Pearl with its canal and shops at the other end.  Residential behind that or some mid-rise/high-rise residential also on the park corridor. The park itself could be wide and open in one section, long and narrow with trees in another, perhaps slightly hilly and treed with a winding "creek" in another.  They would all connect with a central sidewalk/bike trail along this long avenue, but have different and interesting feels along the way. 

Love the idea.  TU did basically the same thing with its 'front door' project, though that was only 3 blocks.  If not a park then a grand boulevard along 11th/University and turn 6th into 2 lanes (right now it's 4) with bike lanes and street trees.  It would be the more residential, 'bike route' to downtown with bike lanes going all the way from TU through downtown on 6th while 11th/University would be more of a commercial corridor with a similar setup like Cherry Street with 4 lanes of traffic with parallel parking at the outer lanes.  New infill would have to front the sidewalk with parking behind.

I do believe TU has already been so honored with what should be Evanston Pl. being named College Ave.

All the way east, past 193rd E Ave to the Creek Turnpike?  There is only about another 1/2 mile until 11th St turns north and becomes N 225th E Ave.  (according to Google Maps) Might as well take the last little bit.   I doubt TU would have much effect on development that far east though.

I've been waiting to respond to this thread until I had some time to write a more thorough response, but that time still hasn't come, so I'll be brief.

The 'rash' of car and apartment break-ins at TU was non-existent, Robert. I did some checking last winter and the year before they installed the fences and gates, there were 9 break-ins. Two years into it, there were 7. That told me a couple things. First, there was no 'crime wave' as the University would have everyone believe. Second, this massive (and expensive, I might add) experiment on 'safety' failed to accomplish anything. A two-car reduction is well within any kind of normal fluctuation.

What was really going on was TU distancing itself from the very neighborhood that it 'grew up' with. It is an urban university in an urban setting, and by cutting off all access points to surrounding neighborhoods to the north, east, south and west, TU has said, "We're not a part of you, don't come here". Take a drive around the campus and you'll notice that they've taken out whole roads that once led to the cute houses north of the campus. In their place? 7-foot-tall privacy fences and over-lit surface parking lots. They've also spent the last several years buying up houses and buildings on the east side of Harvard and systematically tearing them down. For whose benefit? What good has come of it? None.

The area west of campus along Sixth Street is often referenced as a 'good reason' to put up that fence. I find that more than a bit disturbing, because that neighborhood's current state of disrepair and criminal activity is directly attributable to the University of Tulsa itself. In the early 1960s, TU was bursting at the seams and had no where to house all of its students. At one point, TU had over 8,000 students. Because of their housing shortage, they successfully got the City of Tulsa to re-zone the entire area west of Delaware for multi-family housing. The result? A lot of great little bungalows with actual white, picket fences and big front porches, filled with families, were demolished to make way for cheap, crappy apartments for students.

Within a couple years, TU realized it was a mistake to grow the student population so large so quickly, and they quickly un-bloated themselves. Suddenly, there was a huge excess of low-rent apartments in the area and no one to rent them. The neighborhood deteriorated quickly from that point to what it is today. The University created a problem and has now decided to turn its back on the neighborhood it single-handedly destroyed.

Putting up fences and cutting off roads is NOT the answer. The answer is community outreach, working with its neighbors to clean it up, get the criminals out, and make it safer again.

Suburbanizing an urban campus is not the answer. TU has now become an internal suburb of Tulsa, with twisting culs-de-sac, fenced-off parking with only one way in and out and the clearing of useful land and buildings for no benefit to the community. They're now a suburban fortress. All they need is a moat.

What TU has done over the past five years is not commendable, nor is what it did in the 1960s. They don't learn from their mistakes, and as a result, keep on destroying the surrounding neighborhoods, piece by piece.

Out of curiosity, where did your numbers come from. Having worked at The Collegian, and knowing people who had been victims, I know that there were far more break-ins than were ever reported by (or maybe to) the campus police.

Thank you for this assessment, it was very interesting.  What do you think needs to be done in order for TU to change its ways?  It sounds like the west campus neighborhood is directly TU's problem and TU should deal with it.  TU has a very nice campus but you are right it feels cut off from surrounding neighborhoods.  I hope to see that change. 

I got my numbers from another former Collegian writer. Looking for a primary source just now, I found data on Campus Security's website (http://resources.utulsa.edu/display/security/). Unfortunately, it only shows 2006, 2007 and 2008, so we can't really look at long-term trends. I also found data on 2001, 2002 and 2004 from the Collegian 1 (http://www.utulsa.edu/collegian/article.asp?article=3488) 2 (http://www.utulsa.edu/collegian/article.asp?article=2379) 3 (http://www.utulsa.edu/collegian/article.asp?article=1082), which helps paint a somewhat clearer picture, but I'd like to see data from the gap years and 2009. One of the articles mentioned a 27% increase in burglaries, but doesn't mention any numbers--so you could have a 27% increase from 3 to 4. Gotta get more info!

Here's what I found relating to car thefts on campus:
2001- 9
x
x
2004- 14
x
2006- 6
2007- 15
2008- 9

The data in itself not conclusive, which actually conclusively shows that the fence has had no effect on the vehicle thefts.

The fences are there for purely psychological reasons (giving a "sense" of security, not actual security) and have unintended psychological effects on the neighborhood.

I completely agree with you on that point; I was pointing out the TU installed the fences due to demands from students and parents. Now, would the fencing have been my choice? No, or at least maybe only in certain areas (definately NOT along 11th street and Harvard!).

I certainly don't remember any students requesting a fence, and I was very heavily involved on campus. I remember certain members of Student Association Senate having meetings with security and administrators who simply assured everyone that it was in TU's and the community's best interest.

And to think that the university administration acted upon a mandate by the students is kind of laughable. When is the last time they ever intently listened to the students' concerns?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if that's something you heard from university administrators, you might want a second source--they've never been forthright about anything. (I'd want to see if they could actually produce a single letter demanding fences). What the Board of Trustees wants, they get... Including massive quantities of acorn lights.

Good luck seeing any positive change--all of this "we'll sequester ourselves and let the problem fester" mentality is alive and unfortunately driving most of their current decisions. They've been going in reverse the past several years. I've drawn some maps to show what all has been destroyed.

TU, 1965:
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1047/4725860258_a0f24805ce_b.jpg)

TU, 2004:
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1020/4725209305_8cbe569563_b.jpg)

TU, 2008:
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1208/4725858998_25a515a9c1_b.jpg)

Total destruction:
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1115/4725213101_5e96091c40_b.jpg)

Ds has no idea what he is talking about on crime.  Having spent a lot of time their over seven years, there was a significant problem with property crime.  Campus crime watch isn't scientific.  There is a reason TU did so much to create a buffer to the west with the athletics facilities and then modified the parking lots to the north.  I had so many friends who had cars broken into or in a couple of cases apartments.

My sense is that folks like to find reason to bag on TU.  It's funny since it's really an anchor for keeping propety values up in the area and it does so much for the area (Kendall Whittier).  I'll never forget Mstr. Bates' defense of a head shop.  Deviant behavior, indeed.

In the end, the fence means nothing.  The area across 11th street is a hodgepodge of fast food, gas stations, and payday loans.  What are we worried about TU distancing
 itself from?

TU brings more value to the community than a lot of things.  I think many people lose site of the big picture.

Fast food, a couple of good restaurants/bars, one gas station. Ain't nothing wrong with Renaissance aside from the noisy and littering college kids. I still prefer that to a gated community.

And obviously you're no college kid. I think there might be two people of that age who would consider it a good thing to be fenced off from Taco Bell.

Edited to add: That's not to say I have anything against TU except their isolationism. I like it being there and I like my neighborhood. I only wish I could buy the awesome house on the west side of College between 11th and 12th.

Which one?  I saw a couple interesting ones on Street View.

I don't follow your point at all.  We are talking urban aesthetic; that's not taco bell.

Some days I hear TU is trying to take over the neighborhood and at other times it's isolationist.  To me it seems like it's all that keeps that area from decaying and there's nothing else to talk about.  I'm reminded of the Flaubert line about envying and loathing aristocracy.

I don't think TU is isolationist at all.  It's a fence, not the Berlin Wall.  No one was walking over that way before.  Nothing to see here, move along.

Renaissance is a jewel of a neighborhood.  TU has been a big part of that, as well as it being a place for people who want a midtown address but can't afford Brookside or Maple Ridge.  If there was more of an urban commercial strip by TU, as opposed to what is there now, I could see Renaissance being even more desirable.  TU could go a long way toward improving that whole area by building two new apartment buildings actually fronting 11th and working to make that stretch more urban.  The ball is in TU's court.  It certainly wouldn't hurt them recruit new students.  

Dude, TU claimed it was building a front door to 11th and then turned its back on the street with its suburban-style apartment developments.  TU's 11th St. development = FAIL.  No one denies this.

No one but the college kids who want to go to the fast food restaurants and QuikTrip and the slow food restaurants and the folks parking in my neighborhood to go to events at TU.

You're right that it's not a particularly urban stretch. TU's fence will only perpetuate that, as it's made it much more convenient to use a car since one has to walk halfway across campus to get to the gate and halfway back to a destination.

The art deco'ish house?  I finally met the occupant last year on the Lortondale home tour.  It's the ultimate money pit, apparently.  I've admired it for years too.  I've lived between 14th & 15th on Gary Pl. and would go past that house all the time going to QT and wondered what it was like inside.

Given its condition, I could see how it would be a money pit. It's not terrible or anything, but it's not something I would describe as "well kept," either. Looks awesome, though. Yet another thing to do with my lottery winnings the day I happen to pick up a winning ticket on the street.

True but a simple gesture like taking down the fence along 11th and building two new apartment buildings up to the sidewalk could go a long way towards changing that.  Also allowing on-street parallel parking on the westbound side of 11th to calm traffic.  Eventually do the eastbound side if you can get rid of some of the surface parking along 11th.  Any kind of streetscape improvements should start at TU and work their way west toward downtown.

That new oval is a nice space, but it needs something on its south side instead of Arby's and its parking lot.  More student housing, a small hotel, or urban apartments would be a nice bookend on the southside of 11th.

Actually, Gold, I lived there for over five years and I do know what I'm talking about. What, statistics from TU Security aren't enough for you? Anecdotal information is subjective. Maybe you personally had experiences with cars being broken into, but that doesn't mean that was representative of the whole campus. That's your personal experience. If I were to make assumptions about the whole campus based on my own experiences and the experiences of my friends, I'd be forced to believe that there was absolutely no crime.


Yes, it's called decades of poor planning and decision making by TU administrators and Trustees. As I discussed earlier, TU created the problem area to the west of campus and now, instead of trying to fix it, they've elected to erect fences and turn away from it. It will fix itself, right? If anything, the construction of the fence has proven that it was a worthless endeavor and they need to try a new approach.

The fence keeps students from easy access to certain parts of campus, while not keeping anyone--including would-be criminals--out. For a fence to truly work the way TU wanted it to (turning campus into a secured compound), they would have to completely block access and place guard stations at each entrance. There are open gates in places that are useless, and then there are gates in residential areas that keep residents from simply walking across the street. Pedestrian access is greatly reduced, and I can give you some anecdotal examples if you'd like them.


No one is looking for reasons to complain about TU. They're there, in plain sight. Has the value of the new facilities increased property values in the area? Maybe in the short term. But property values alone do not a neighborhood make. Take a look at the integrity and continuity of the neighborhood. TU has completely cut itself off from the surrounding neighborhood, isolating itself in a cocoon of righteousness, literally tearing down homes and connector streets to put up walls, fences, gates, and parking lots. Those are the kinds of things that destroy a neighborhood, not help build it up.


So, because the businesses along the street aren't up-to-par with TU's pristine new image, they should cut off all connection with them? A majority of those businesses serve TU students, faculty, staff and visitors. They directly benefit the University by providing their services, but TU has decided to cut off all access except via a car, and has even limited vehicular access to campus. As a former TU apartment dweller, I can tell you that it's much harder to get to any business on 11th street by foot now. Before the fence, I could walk directly across the street to get a pizza, or a burrito, or catch the bus. After the fence went up, I was surrounded on three sides by fences and had to walk quite far out of my way to make it to the new "front door" on 11th Street, and back-track to do anything.


They do create a lot of value for the community, but that does not mean that they get a carte blanche when it comes to bullying and subsequently destroying its surrounding neighborhoods. I think they'd find a much more vibrant, active, safe scene in the neighborhood if they stopped using sticks and instead used carrots.

I know right, they should have built a mazzios or a QT on the other side so it matched!

I lived there too; and statistics from TU Security aren't enough. That's why I mentioned in the first post that the number of breakins, thefts, etc. reported by TU Security were grossly understated. Now, many of those incidents may have never been reported to campus security (mainly because most people understand that there isn't much that security could do after-the-fact), but that does not negate the fact that break-ins were getting out of control.

They might not have every single incident, but I think it's pretty close. Arbitrarily saying that numbers reported by TU Security are "grossly understated" is just another subjective view-- I mean, how do you know that incidents are "grossly understated"? Was a student survey done relating to crime that indicated that students weren't reporting things? Was there some big exposé in the Collegian? Is there something I'm missing? It just seems like people are making too many assumptions based on two things: 1) their own perceptions, and 2) their own experiences; and then extrapolating that on the whole campus.

I'm not saying that there aren't any more crimes that go unreported--but we can't just make unsubstantiated claims, either. And no matter how many incidents there were, have been or are, the point that I previously made is that the fence has made no significant impact on the number of reported crimes on campus. And security was the number one reason the administration kept touting as a reason for the fence.

DS, you can be wrong all you want.  The real world is a better source for information than your alleged review of crime records that would take a day at least.  TU has a problem with property crime and took a step to fix it.

The whole thread is silly.  The TU campus is one of the few truly walkable places in the city and the administration has made great strides in recent years to make it less of a commuter school and then less of a place where people drive two blocks to go to class.  The apartments everyone on here whines about were huge for getting people to live on campus and then they added things like the yellow bikes and a shuttle to make it leas dictated by autos.  And the bikes lanes on Delaware . . .

I think the issue is the opposite of what is articulated by others here; the area around TU isn't all that interested in being pedestrian friendly.  Come to a football game and notice the lack of help crossing 11th.

The point of the thread was to draw attention to the positives that TU brings to the neighborhood and how the area around TU could be a lot better.  I have already noticed that the Renaissance neighborhood has improved a lot in the past decade and is now a desirable area.  Hopefully the same can be said about the areas west of campus toward Lewis someday though the presence of dozens of small, lower income apartments makes it more difficult.  It would be interesting to see what, if anything, TU has planned for west of its campus.  The key though is 11th and turning it into more of a walkable commercial corridor.  Look no further than Peoria/Brookside and 15th/Cherry Street to see what a vibrant urban commercial strip can do for the entire neighborhood surrounding it.  

When I was living in Denver I lived right next to University of Denver which is a few miles southeast of downtown but has a stop on the light rail line.  The neighborhood to the east is really nice, like what you would find around 31st & Lewis, while the area to the west and south is similar to the Renaissance neighborhood with I-25 forming the northern border.  They have a University Blvd. that was fairly similar to 11th by TU with a few urban buildings built up to the sidewalk and some drive-thru fast food joints/convenience stores.  In the past several years though DU wanted to change that so new student housing was built along the street across from campus with retail/restaurant space on the ground floor.  They added parallel parking to University and did a nice streetscaping project that helped calm traffic on the major thoroughfare.  There are still a few buildings with parking lots out front but they have greatly improved the pedestrian experience near that campus, and the neighborhood has benefitted tremendously.  TU and DU have a lot in common and TU could learn a lot from how they have set up their campus with regards to a major commercial street and surrounding neighborhood.

TU should also look at how TCU in Fort Worth or Vanderbilt in Nashville have integrated with their surrounding neighborhoods.  Washington University in St. Louis would be good too as it's similar in size and is very near some really rough neighborhoods east of its campus, much worse than anything around or close to TU. 

Vandy used to be in a very scary part of Nashvegas.  Has the area improved in the last 20-25 years?

The area around Vandy looks nice but is in fact a crime ridden dung hole.  Seriously, spent a really weird night there a few years back.  It makes Fresno look like Monaco.

Again, TU does way more for the area than it gets back.  It's not an entity I would complain about among the many local ne'er do wells. 

In Columbus there is a street (High) that separates Ohio State University from a lower income neighborhood mixed with homes and apartments.  The areas near TU are like Maple Ridge in comparison to some of these areas in Columbus.  High is also the main commercial thoroughfare between the university and downtown 2 miles to the south.  Ohio State administrators and alums recognized the area around campus was a liability and created a public-private partnership to buy up the fast food joints, abandoned buildings, and strip malls by campus to create the South Campus Gateway, an urban mixed-use development with restaurants, shops, and student apartments across the street from campus.  The project has been a success and has helped jumpstart further revitalization of High St. towards downtown.  There are a lot of parallels to what they did in Columbus with what could be done in Tulsa.  TU would have to initiate it though, just like Ohio State did in Columbus.  While not anywhere close to the size of Ohio State, TU does have serious political pull in this city and plenty of deep pockets.

http://southcampusgateway.com/ (http://southcampusgateway.com/)

http://www.uli.org/sitecore/content/ULI2Home/AwardsAndCompetitions/AwardsForExcellenceProgram/2008/South%20Campus%20Gateway.aspx (http://www.uli.org/sitecore/content/ULI2Home/AwardsAndCompetitions/AwardsForExcellenceProgram/2008/South%20Campus%20Gateway.aspx)

That's fantastic! Earlier in the thread, people were asking what TU could do to improve the neighborhood and neighborhood relations... I think this serves as an example of what they could do. Ohio State adopted a policy of active engagement with the neighborhood instead of sequestering itself behind a fence. I really would like to see a mixed-use development like this happen near TU whether it's on Sixth Street or 11th.

Kendall Whittier school.

Well, they're already at it again, ripping out another street. They have now permanently closed Gary Ave. between 4th Pl and 5th Pl. for the construction of Samson Plaza and Rayzor Hall. When will the mindless, reckless destruction end??

When we stop letting them close the public streets and giving them the land they sit upon.

I was driving down 11th into downtown and at Elgin the road curves and continues onto 10th.  10th goes right by TCC.  If OSU and TCC joined together for one downtown campus at 10th & Boston (see my thread in Other Discussions) with OSU expanding on the surface lots to the south then 10th would be the main drag through the campus (as well as Boston Ave).  That would make even more sense for 11th to be renamed University including the stretch of 10th between Elgin and Denver, and back to 11th all the way to OSU Med. Center (where it dead ends).  University Blvd. would connect OSU Med. Center to OSU/TCC to TU..

Cool observation...let's just make this happen.   Neato.

Another university is working with private developers to build a mixed-use development next to their campus, this one in Memphis (and in TU's athletic conference):

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/aug/20/developers-insist-stalled-highland-row-project-nea/?partner=RSS (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/aug/20/developers-insist-stalled-highland-row-project-nea/?partner=RSS)

(http://venetiansalondevelopment.com/images/highland_row.png)

TU has already shown it's not shy in transforming its campus and surrounding neighborhood.  It seems natural for them to want to make 11th St. more of a vibrant, pedestrian-friendly area too. 

The problem with the area west of Delaware is one of TU's making--decades ago they  fought to have that area zoned in such a way that they could buy it up cheap, extend the campus and possibly add student housing later.  Since the zoning issue has created a very undesirable real estate situation, I say let's get TU to help fix up the area west of Delaware.

And TU, putting in sub-standard width bike lanes when Delaware was 4-lanes before--that was just not community friendly.  You made it pretty and less safe at the same time.  Well done.  Why do I see TU students riding their bikes on the sidewalk next to the bike lane?  This is an everyday occurrence.  Do you not teach them how to ride?

So what is the area to the west zoned that makes it less desireable and cheaper to buy?  It would seem to me if the area was cheap the university that raised half a billion dollars last decade would probably buy it up.  I'm calling bs.

Second, it is a college campus.  In case you've never been on another one before kids ride bikes all over the place.  I'm guessing TU, like most every other university ignores it and there has been zero insitutional discussion about riding bikes on sidewalks.

Finally, TU does. Lot for the Kendall neighborhood via True Blue neighbors. 

Guilty of trolling here having just read this thread. Just curious as to why and how you would change 11th, which is Route 66, into University Boulevard? From the OSU campus west of the river eastward there has been much effort spent in trying to identify it as Rt.66 including signs, street markers, sidewalks etc. As an outsider to the Universities, I don't see much identification, other than sporadic clusters of parking lots and buildings, that would tie it all together as a University Boulevard. Seems like the Rt 66 boosters will object.

IMO 6th St needs this distinction more than 11th/Route 66.

If it's 6th, so be it.  It's something to designate TU's presence and build around.  The question then would be does University Blvd go from downtown to Delaware?  Either way some kind of unified streetscape is needed along that route, and the road itself should be two lanes with bike lanes going each direction.

11th could stay as is but outside of a few markers there isn't a lot that designates it as Route 66.  Even just a different color of street sign instead of omnipresent green (or red for non-through streets) would be an improvement.  Maybe blue or yellow as it would tie back to TU, something like what Austin has done with street signs through the UT campus area making them burnt orange:

(http://www.photojunkie.ca/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/000038.jpg)

You moved here too late to see the gradual decline in the area.

Speculation for years was that TU via proxy (whether it was the university, boosters, alumni, or little green men in black helicopters with TU jerseys on) was buying up the single family residences and renting them at sub-market rates which would bring in all sorts of the wrong elements which follow low-income housing.  Sort of a diabolical imminent domain, if you will.

No idea if it was true, but it's been common speculation for years.

Sixth may be a better corridor to build around. It ends right at Delaware on one end and smoothly enters the Pearl District on the other ending up downtown. The land and buildings there would be more economical to buy and the area is already benefiting from development efforts. Would really be cool to run a real trolley down that street to Centennial Plaza.

If you walk 11th (rt 66) you see more of the labeling. Its in the brickwork, the Meadow Gold sign, placards etc. No use rebranding the area if you don't have to.

No no no people, here is what we need to do.  lets think long term, grand, world class city. Create a grand park, a kind of extension of Central Park, perhaps call it "Central Park East"  between 5th and 6th street going most of the way from TU to Downtown.  Imagine looking down the TU green towards the downtown skyline over a series of parks.  On either side zone to have pedestrian friendly buildings up to a wide sidewalk, hopefully buildings of up to 5 or 6 stories. Could be a medical corridor and the area near TU have more TU and educational buildings.  The park in between the streets could vary in nature but have bike/walking trails through them all, one could have linear sidewalks with a fountain in the center for instance, the next could have a windy trail near an artificial creek, one could have a large monument or Arch de Triumph type structure in it, perhaps one would just be a flat green with nothing but grass in it, and so on.  Then the park could change in the Pearl District area, where you would then have the canal down 6th street.  The few historic or interesting buildings that are currently in the area (like any art deco ones lol) where the proposed park would be could just stay and would simply add interest to the park.  

(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/2856/tugreen.jpg)

Something like this with streets down either side, but with a series of parks down the middle and the downtown skyline at one end and TU at the other.

(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/509/2800picsnationalgeograp.jpg)

As per theartist's suggestion of the wide Parisian-style boulevard, I would love it.  But I don't expect to see anything so grand in any of our lifetimes.

As per the general theme of this thread, there is an element of TU's plan that I think that has only been hinted at.  Part of the reason that TU seems motivated to do all of this was to keep students and their money on campus.  Why should Stedman Upham let your money run across to the metro diner?  You should eat on campus.  And being a commuter student you dare defy the will, might, majesty and glory of the TU administration you will be sentenced to an assigned parking spot on the far corners of the campus.  That means once you are on campus, you aren't going to walk to your car to go to lunch elsewhere.  If safety had been their genuine concern they could have made the campus safe it without making the journey off campus un-walkable.  They certainly could have done it without those cardboard South Tulsa apartments.

The unintended consequence of these developments is that students at TU from elsewhere are less likely to develop attachments to the city.  My best memories of TU are studying at the metro or digging through the record bins at Starship.  Less connection with the city means they are less likely to stay and build their lives here.  Or at least have some good stories from college.  I can imagine the stories as they are now. “I sat around my personalityless apartment and played video games because going out took too much effort.”
It makes me sad that TU wants to promote such a sanitized version of college life just so they can keep your money.

Don't know about the "keeping the money on campus" thing, but you do make a good point about the bland "sterility" of the campus and it not being connected to the city.  Its nice that the campus is growing and that it looks pretty, but its not really pedestrian friendly as in there is really no lively or interesting place you would want to walk to, it somehow doesn't feel welcoming in that respect.   

Arkansas has Dixon Street.  There is a great collection of shops, clubs/interesting restaurants etc. nestled right by the campus in Norman.  Stillwater has more interesting stuff nearby than TU does.  Sure you can drive places in Tulsa if you want, but otherwise there isn't anything next door to easily, enjoyably, walk to.  There aren't any cozy, interesting, or wild and crazy places right next door that your going to fondly remember.   

The campus and its surroundings look... boring.  Thats one reason I keep mentioning them "making" some sort of "place".  Even a fake little strip of shops (school bookstore) restaurants (school cafeteria) etc. would add something.     

Having gone through the OU campus corner experience, I understand what you guys mean. TU needs a campus corner even if it is a stretched out University Boulevard concept. It was fun to walk off campus and find a large variety of non-university attractions. Even Main street Norman was within walking distance and if you had to drive you could find more stuff over on Lindsey near I-35. There was a working relationship between the University and the city.

That said, OU was in fact larger than Norman at that time. Norman was laid out like a small town with a grid pattern. That was amenable to a campus corner. And, what was good for OU was good for Norman. I think many people overestimate the size and power of TU. Even combined with TCC and OSU med, it is still part of the theads of the city, not its main fabric. All three must compete with other entities that have different goals. The scope of a University Boulevard as described here would be fantastic and a great use of the area. To make it happen will require some larger association of powers.

Imagine if Cherry Street was TU's campus corner.  The problem is it's not.  Any development of a new district by TU would detract from other midtown districts.  While I would love to see it happen I think that reason is why it hasn't.  The only way to get that stretch of 11th redeveloped is for TU to build its new student housing on the south side of 11th with retail space at street level.  Work with the city to do parallel parking, wider sidewalks, better lighting, street trees.  Tear down the fences along the oval and build student housing up to the sidewalk there where parking lots are currently.  Overall just embrace 11th as a mixed-use, pedestrian-friendly commercial corridor that ajoins a great older and increasingly popular neighborhood, Renaissance, to the south.  

Next time you're in Denver check out the area around the University of Denver.  Very similar in many ways to TU being a few miles from downtown in a neighborhood setting.  The university, private developers, and the city have worked hard over the past decade to urbanize the campus and its two main commercial corridors: Evans and University.  Since I lived there by campus a few years ago it has grown even more with lots of multi-story student housing with streetfront retail and restaurant along University Blvd; the campus on one side and the new development on the other.  Sound familiar?

Campus Corner in Norman is a fantastic commercial district and one of the most walkable areas in the state.  Of course it has been there for nearly a century and has seen lots of changes over time.  Something even remotely similar would be a big improvement by TU.

TU used to have that "campus corner" feel until they bought up all the property on the north side of 11th St.  You had fast food, a few bars, record shop, some funky apartments, really cool retro diner, etc.

TU essentially bought up campus corner and erased the "corner" part of it.

As far as building student housing on the south side of 11th?  No thanks.

If you think the new buildings at TU are "dreck" I'd love to hear what you think of these:

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRXxoPNLKnbfWAdS4t-9oyRo4lMcxsxZ4pbxb8mjNTPsNyb-mu21w)

(http://cdn.hotelplanner.com/Common/Images/Landmarks/42382.jpg)

(http://www.conscioustimesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/saupload_08_10_22c_walmart1.jpg)

Are TU's new buildings what I would have built?  Not necessarily, but I think they are very nicely done and coherent to one another.  I'm a big fan of the changes  TU has made to their campus.  I believe 11th St is the new "midtown hot spot".

CVS: Does that ever say "In your face!"  :o

The S'pank: Reminds me of old Central High School with all the windows...well sort of

Wall Marts: Interesting camouflage for a big box.

Certainly TU could have done worse on design and execution.  My dreck comment had more to do with dispelling comparisons of 2010 manufactured stone and dryvit with classic 1800 and 1900 Ivy League construction.  I can be a troll at times.  Okay, well, most of the time.

I was just trying to provide a little perspective.  Are there varying degrees of dreck?

Yep:

None, slight, quite a bit, over-the-top, & Bumgarner.  ;)

Other than Conan's last remark, am I sensing a lack of consensus? 6th street, 11th street north, 11th street south...

University Boulevard?  6th St.

I would argue for a degree between slight & quite a bit.

11th St north & 11st St south???   ???

I believe they were saying the north side of the street, or south side of the street.

It took me a minute too to realize what was being said....

I don't foresee TU jumping 11th St between Harvard & College  IF they end up owning Wilson MS, then obviously that will give them a reason to potentially "connect" that site with the main campus by buying up property between Delaware & College.

The Campbell Hotel won't be going anywhere for a while, I don't foresee Bama Pie going anywhere.

I most likely see TU growing along 6th St between Kendall Whittier and 11th St.