The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

And the same trooper from the ambulance incident, no less.

Can anyone say they didn't see this coming?

Time to relieve this guy of his duties.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=12&articleid=20091004_12_0_HOLDEN353262

I'm almost positive someone called this in the last thread about the OHP trooper.

It's paid leave again.

A total shocker

(http://www.shockinglighters.net/shockinglighters/shock.jpg)

All court costs should be taken out of the paychecks of the people who thought it was a good idea to keep him around.

With a now-defined pattern of behavior, paramedic goes forward with civil suit in 3...2..

Oh, I'm sure they will.  Lets say 3 months of paid vacation and 5 days off with pay.

Remember when the initial story was that the Paramedic stepped our of the ambulance and assaulted the OHP and then tried to leave?  The dash cam was going to show it all.  Then they wouldn't release it . . . then it turns out it didn't show what they said it did . . .but it happened off camera.  Without YouTube nothing would have ever happened.  Hell, with YouTube nothing really happened.

Previous thread (in which most people predicted nothing significant would happen and this cop would continue to abuse his authoritay'):
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13532.0

Make sure we (I) don't jump the gun on this guy though.  He is vulnerable to someone taking advantage of the situation and some doubt must exist that he would be stupid enough to give an excuse for someone else to call "BS" on him.  If the allegations are shown to be correct (he essentially beat a bystander for not doing what he said), then there is NO excuse for him to be fired instantly.  

Odds of getting a dashcam video or any other hard evidence?

My guess, when the dashcam is inevitably requested they will claim it doesn't show anything relevant.  Which makes a pathetic excuse to not release it.  Round II . . .

I will be OK with him taking his paid vacation in jail like every other citizen, preferably a hard prison sentence in Big Mac to show other officers that they need to be civil. Certainly looks like two hate crimes to me, I think that is a special bonus.

That or drug-related charges like, oh, I dunno, steriods?  Meth?

Aww, I didnt see your post so I added to the original...
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13532.msg145186#msg145186

The story on News9's is much more detailed than the Whirld's.
http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=11255583

This time they are promising to release video -- after, of course, ample time to make the necessary edits...

Good thing we raised Turnpike tolls to cover for all these paid vacations.  Martins was much shorter than Rowlands (the Bixby trooper videotaped kicking a handcuffed woman).  Rowland was suspended in November and will continue to draw his annual salary of $43,500 at least until his misdemeanor trial in March 2010.

Well we cant throw the "Race Card" at him. This time he assaulted a white man. Im pretty sure if it wasnt the same officer doing the assaulting, we would not heard a word about it.
I will give him this. He is a equal opportunity abuser.

More documentation of Martin's inability to keep control of himself.

This is not the guy we want enforcing our laws.  Surely there's other work for him that will better suit his character.  Professional wrestling maybe?  Not sure what else he's cut out for...

No...But the dingle-berry a few post above was quick to toss it out there.....

I saw Breadburner had posted and assumed he'd contributed a graphic along the lines of taking one on the chin...heh.

Me too. Come on BB, don't disappoint.   ;)

Whirled reporter Julie Delcour almost gets it, but she places too much emphasis on one freakshow and not enough on the corrupt environment that feeds the fire.




Roadside distraction
Did the long arm of law overreach?

By JULIE DELCOUR Associate Editor
http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectid=61&articleid=20091011_214_G1_Troope432845

It took Catoosa's Blue Whale, Foyil's Totem Pole, a town named Hooker, Nowata's Bowling Ball Fence and the grave near Tahlequah of Mr. Ed, the talking TV horse, decades to reach the status that state Trooper Daniel Martin achieved in only four months.

Single-handedly, Martin's become one of Oklahoma's best-known roadside attractions.

Martin's defied that silly axiom about never getting a second chance to make a first impression. He made a fairly lasting impression in May thanks to a YouTube video viewed, at last count, by a million people. The video shows a May 24 roadside scuffle between Martin and a Creek Nation paramedic near the Okfuskee County town of Paden and the paramedic pressed against an ambulance with Martin's fingers squeezing his throat. Heard coming from inside the ambulance are the wails of a distraught female patient who thought she was on her way to the hospital for heart palpitations. The jumpy video, incidentally, was shot on a cell phone by the woman's son after Martin had pulled over the ambulance, believing its driver had cut him off and given a one-finger salute. Eventually the ambulance was allowed to go on to a hospital.

The Oklahoma Highway Patrol, Martin's employer, probably would concede that the video incited the same level of outrage in the public that swirling red capes provoke in bulls. OHP began an internal investigation, taking its sweet time releasing a dash cam video from the trooper's cruiser. The official video was only slightly less inflammatory than the cell phone video.

A public outcry went up for Martin's head and his badge. He lost neither but was placed on administrative leave. Two months later OHP levied a five-day suspension without pay after determining Martin had exhibited behavior "unbecoming of an officer." Martin also was ordered to undergo an anger management assessment.

Aside from a federal civil rights lawsuit filed by the paramedic, Martin recently had slipped off the public stage. Now he's back for act two, which, for OHP, must be a public-relations nightmare. Last week, Martin returned to his old stomping ground — administrative leave — while the OHP conducts a new internal investigation into the Oct. 3 arrest of Kristopher Douglas, 24, of Holdenville, who claims Martin and Trooper Tommy Allen assaulted him for no apparent reason. Douglas, facing a misdemeanor charge of obstructing an officer, has filed a complaint against the troopers.

Jerry Ford, who lives where the arrest occurred, said Douglas was walking over to Ford's house to help him drywall when he was accosted. Luke Carson, the motorist who allegedly ran a stop sign and attracted troopers' attention to begin with, also was coming to Ford's house to help him drywall. With troopers trailing him, Carson had pulled into Ford's driveway.

Meanwhile, Douglas, not involved in the traffic stop, was trying to get to Ford's house. But troopers, Ford claims, kept insisting Douglas stand by the street. Events turned uglier when Allen allegedly grabbed Douglas' arm and placed him in a chokehold; Martin pulled out a retractable baton and struck Douglas in the back, according to Ford's account.

Neither Ford nor Douglas had known the names of the troopers but recalled the badge number of one. An Oklahoma City television reporter later recognized the badge, No. 606, as belonging to Martin.

Martin's attorney insists a dash cam will exonerate his client — that troopers acted professionally and prudently in subduing Douglas. So far, OHP hasn't released the dash cam recordings.

While the troopers are entitled to due process, they're not just ordinary citizens. They wear a badge. Because public confidence is important, law enforcement officers are held to a higher standard. Martin's unacceptable behavior in the May incident has created residual distrust not only for him but his employer.

Stories by Tulsa World reporter Manny Gamallo detailing the latest incident drew hundreds of comments, mostly unfavorable to Martin and to the OHP brass. The comments certainly aren't evidence but do indicate some public misgivings with the agency — at least in the Martin matter.

OHP may face some unsavory scenarios. If Martin is cleared and found to have acted appropriately criticism and suspicion undoubtedly will erupt — again. The balance of Martin's OHP career — no matter how long or short that might be — will be dogged with questions. Traffic stops he makes that evolve into force would — and should — be carefully examined. If Martin is disciplined again no punishment short of termination (or his voluntary resignation) probably will suffice for some of those following the episode.

Martin alone isn't responsible for eroding public confidence in OHP. But it is time for some serious agency introspection. Otherwise, all the perfumes of Arabia probably won't sweeten the hand OHP must deal with.

The edited dashcam will surely show that Martin lost his temper and went on a power trip again did nothing wrong at all.  He will take a few months of tax payer funded vacation and be cleared of all wrongdoing with the excuse that the men recognized him and were picking on him.   At worst there will be a suspension and he will have to take a class on not beating parties not involved in a traffic stop.

What's the next major event coming up?  Maybe the day of the Super Bowl they'll release the video.  What's the hold up?

Honestly, if the video exonerated him they would have reviewed it, released it, and move on by now.  If they intended to do something significant they would have moved quickly to save face.  The status quo rains supreme.

Anybody heard about the OK State House investigation into OHP's recent cock-ups?

KOKH Fox25 in Oklahoma City has been running a series of articles on DPS and OHP corruption/mismanagement, but Ive only seen one of them on our local Fox station (about them attending union meetings on taxtayer time).
Trying to find anything on either website is almost impossible though.

The legislature wont really be of any help because DPS is where people who are owed political favors get paid off, and I hate to think getting the Federal Government involved would be the only way to clean up the mess.

Largely ignored by Tulsa media, this OKC station has been investigating OHP performing union business on taxpayer's time, conflicts of interest, and retaliation for a whistleblower.  Open Records requests were routinely ignored here, too:

http://www.okcfox.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kokh_vid_583.shtml

http://www.okcfox.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kokh_vid_494.shtml

http://www.okcfox.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kokh_vid_527.shtml

http://www.okcfox.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kokh_vid_534.shtml

http://www.okcfox.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kokh_vid_504.shtml

http://www.okcfox.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kokh_vid_499.shtml

OHP burned by video again... This time it was a news helicopter:

OKLAHOMA CITY -- A high-speed chase has launched an internal review from the Oklahoma Highway Patrol. It's what happens at the end of the pursuit that has OHP wanting to take a second look at the video. SkyNEWS 9 HD captured the chase on video from the air.

Once the suspect realized NEWS 9’s helicopter was on his tail, he decided to give up. Near Choctaw Road and Interstate 40, the man made a U-turn and went back to the main intersection. Once there, he waited for troopers to arrive. He then slowly lowered himself to the ground and that's when a trooper approached with his gun drawn.

A few seconds later, a second trooper approached the cyclist and put his knee into the man's back. The trooper then strikes the suspect's back with his fist before taking him into custody.

Immediately following the arrest, NEWS 9 asked for an Oklahoma Highway Patrol supervisor to come to the station and take a look at the video from SkyNEWS 9 HD. After reviewing the incident, a department Major said it is a case worth looking into.
http://www.newson6.com/Global/category.asp?C=121535&clipId=4245787&autostart=true

I'm seeing a pattern here:

Citizen's witness or capture OHP performing in a non-professional if not criminal manner:  OHP pretends to care.  If it isn't on camera (or involving a very public repeat offender) - OHP never does anything wrong.  In all instances, nothing really happens.

I have faith that the dash cam will exonerate the officers.

[However, if a law was put to referendum that a high speed chase that endangers the public entitled the officers to one free slug - I'd vote for it :P ]

Ahhh, crotch rocket rider, a future organ donor for certain if he doesn't shape up.  Do we know why this guy was being chased in the first place? 

I can't see that the knee on the shoulder was unreasonable restraint, and from the camera angle of the helicopter, the OHP can claim he was pulling the perp's arm back and it slipped, since you can't see his fist strike the guy.  There's weasel room here and you can bet they will say that's what happened.

Hey, I'm not apologizing for the OHP, just not sure we've got the full context of what happened here.  I'm really surprised a trooper would strike someone especially if they were being submissive as this guy obviously was, and after the whole Daniel Martin fiasco.

Knees tend to come down on ribs with breaking force, and im betting there is a 2:1 weight ratio between the two.
 


Old habbits...
They are probably used to relying on the fact that almost all their arrests wont be independently videotaped (that, and knowing that their cronies in the legislature will keep their own dashcam video secret),
but on the other hand we now live in a time when under-$100 dashcams are available to consumers, too.
http://www.proofpronto.com/dashcam-original.html?gclid=COCJ9cXC3p0CFR4eDQodonpSNg   

Man, you don't think the OHP would snatch that little gem out of someones car and claim it was stolen after the car was impounded?

Im sure it would be the first thing they grab, even under the guise if "impounding evidence" unless it was built into the vehicle or hidden.

As for the helicopter chase video, OHP is now claiming the unnamed trooper "ordered (the suspect) to give them his arm at least three times so that he could be handcuffed" but he refused, before being punched.

Given that the suspect went to the trouble of backtracking to where the OHP could find him and laid down on the ground on his own in an effort to surrender, hesitating to give them his arm isnt consistent with his previous actions.  Also looking at the video I dont see that the anonymous trooper had time to make three demands before using force.
But OHP says it's a textbook arrest. 
Maybe their textbook was "Helter Skelter"?

I'm in total agreement with you on this one.  It's not like this guy was standing there with his hand down his pants trying to stare them down.  So the OHP is admitting to the punch...hmmm.

And that is why if I was to install a camera in my car (or six), it would feed to a harddrive in the trunk, as well as use a cell signal to feed to an offsite computer (like at the house).  Wouldn't be cheap, but in the unlikely event that something like this happened, it would be worth while.

Another day, another OHP atrocity:


OKLAHOMA CITY -- The Oklahoma Highway Patrol is once again under attack by a man claiming he suffered alleged abuse at the hands of an OHP trooper.

An attorney for 33-year old Jose Serrano said his client was beaten severely by a highway patrol trooper last November during a routine traffic stop in Clinton.

Several picture of Serrano revealed his injuries from the alleged abuse, and that is now the subject of a lawsuit. The pictures taken three days after his arrest by OHP, showed one of Serrano's eyes was swollen shut, his lip was busted, his teeth were loosened and he was covered in bruises.

"This was just breathtaking. It was just that when you look at him it took your breath away. The amount of injuries to his face and everything else," said Michael Brooks Jimenez, Jose Serrano's attorney.

Dash camera video from that incident showed Serrano driving off after briefly pulling over. Jimenez said Serrano wasn't trying to escape; he just couldn't understand what the trooper was saying because he doesn't speak or understand much English.

"What he thought the officer was saying was get out of here. I believe the officer probably was saying get out of the car, but the client didn't understand that," Jimenez said.

Serrano pulled over once more and then took off again, this time pulling into the driveway of his home. At least one other trooper and Clinton police respond to a call for backup. The arrest happened off camera.

"The officer came up and without saying a word, began to punch my client in the face, and my client says that he was punched in the face about 13 times," Jimenez said.

But according to a probable cause affidavit, Trooper Steven Cornell only admitted to hitting Serrano four times. He said he did that to control Serrano and remove him from the car. He went on to state that Serrano, an illegal immigrant, resisted arrest and would not obey his commands to get out of the car.

Serrano is now suing the Department of Public Safety, which oversees OHP.

NEWS 9's legal analyst Irven Box said his case may have merit.

"Just because someone is not a legal citizen it doesn't give law enforcement or anyone else the right to violate their rights," Box said.

An OHP spokesman said Cornell did what he needed to do to get the situation under control, and he used the minimum amount of force possible.

Cornell was not suspended or placed on paid administrative leave following the incident.

Interestingly, OHP released dashcam video from probably the only vehicle that didnt show the assault (and that also doesnt show the trooper exiting his vehicle until he's beating the suspect in his driveway).

So is there going to be a big Open Records battle for the dashcams that actually show what happened?
It's only been a year...

I'll have to see the video on that before making any judgments.  Since he pulled into his driveway it seems doubtful that he would have been alluding arrest or putting up a fight, but since he is an illegal immigrant he had an incentive to NOT be arrested in Oklahoma.  Given what the attorney said, it seems atrocious.  BUT, his job is to advocate for his client.  Clearly if the story is as told, it's horrible . . . but I want to see the video.

DPS apparently didnt release video from the other vehicles, just the one that doesnt show anything:
http://www.newson6.com/Global/category.asp?C=121535&clipId=4269034&autostart=true

...alluding escape and eluding arrest more like it...

;)

Color me shocked.

How did you like those street lights in the video?

OHP cleared Trooper Martin again, (were we surprised)
and showed a fragment of dash cam video with significant gaps in the audio (again) that was not clear enough to hear or see anything suitable for independent analysis.
http://www.newson6.com/Global/category.asp?C=121535&clipId=4299396&autostart=true

The excuse for the use of force was that the man who was later clubbed reacted to Trooper Allen's grabbing of his wrist by looking at his wrist, then looking up at the trooper grabbing his wrist and then again at his wrist, all the while backing away from the trooper.  Thats assault and battery on a PO in the OHP book. 

(EDIT)  A cleaner copy of the video shows the victim attempting to walk around the traffic stop (with a fence to his left keeping him from giving a wider berth) and being intercepted by Trooper Martin, who aggressively places himself chest-to-chest with the man.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29IbDJrdkwQ[/youtube]

OINKY!

Choking a paramedic gets you a handslap but THIS gets you fired?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32503068/

Well yes, but if he'd been choking her it'd be right as rain.

Another paid vacation for a trooper:

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=12306927

I'd say apples/oranges here though.

Choking someone out vs theft...I'm guessing this takes less time than the investigation into misconduct does.

The paid vacation (since Nov 2008) for Bixby OHP trooper Barry Jacob Rowland, who was turned in by other police for repeatedly kicking a handcuffed woman, finally ends.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=12&articleid=20100525_12_0_tablet506509

Those types of blows to the chest have been known to be fatal in the past, but the only punishment in this case is he simply resigns from OHP and walks away.

Shame we have to get news from Bixby and Henryetta from OKC media.

OHP used to be a pretty good organization.  They have certainly lost it over this clown.

Shooting a fleeing person in the back hasnt been legal since the '80's.
Going to be interesting how they whitewash this murder.


http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Neighbors-react-to-OHP-trooper-involved-shooting/4-FsgAHnoUG4wr7JeybPkw.cspx

They are fine stock indeed:

This has a "back story" that is common in the state - there are many of these tiny little towns like Delaware (anyone know where that is?).  I have spent a little time there from time to time and they are unable to afford any law enforcement of their own.  I think the 500 population estimate may be high, and it is a very economically poor town - county sheriffs are the most often called law enforcement entity.  The highway patrol is a further removed state entity that covers such a larger area that they typically have no connection to the town they are called to do law enforcement duties.  The county sheriff arriving later may well have known the guy and quite possibly would not have reacted the same way.  It is a sad economic fact of life.


Iron Horse is kind of a dicey place it seems to me.  There is a spectrum of attendees, but it definitely has some rough edges.   Probably not as bad as the old Snake Pit bar on 15th from many years ago....

Having a witness standing right there must have complicated things terribly for the PIO.
Given this information, im guessing the "man walking with a knife complaint" didnt surface until the victim was cold.

Couldnt find a suitable "what the hell?" category to post this in, so...




OHP water rescue ends with trooper killing victim.


Troopers responded to assist stranded motorists stuck in high water near Hectorville Road and Bixby Road in Okmulgee County Friday night.

Captain Paul Timmons told FOX23 troopers found two people trying to push a vehicle out of high water.
Timmons said troopers tried to get the two out of the water when a physical altercation ensued.

Timmons said one trooper was physically assaulted and at least one trooper fired shots killing one person.
No names have been released, but the suspect has been identified as an assistant pator of Fatih Bible Church in Tulsa.

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/troopers-respond-shooting-scene-mounds/nmRPP/

Whatever you do....Do exactly the opposite of what law enforcement tells you to do........It seems to be working out well for those involved......

Whew! according to the article. The Troopers are OK. That's a relief.  ::)

It amazes me the kind of unconditional hero worship that goes on for LEO.  Are most of the outstanding law enforcement officers fine and shining examples of such?  You bet most are.

Leave the executioning to the court system though unless when absolutely certain their lives are in danger.  Too many instances here lately of this happening.  Or, as I've said in the past, now that everyone has a camera on a device they always carry (their smart phones), more of these instances are coming to light.

Not sure, but it sure needs to stop.  And LEO agencies need to stop trying to cover for them even when the evidence isn't in their favor.

If there is dashcam or bodycam video that exonerates the killing, you would want to publish it right away, and not two weeks later after being "enhanced."

Now, theres also the issue of "can you be forced to be 'rescued' ?"

The victims fault.. Got it.




Not a good week, considering police shot a hostage in a Coffeyville carjacking just the day before.  Can you say reckless?

OHP delayed contacting the next of kin to buy time, for some reason.  The widow only found out her husband was killed when the brother of the pastor called her from jail.
(http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2015/05/30/b740e634-e6a1-4302-8591-de93327e60af/thumbnail/620x350/87f8e1c5a2b160a37bfd6a1e6aa3b7ed/oklahoma-shooting.jpg)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/30/us-usa-police-oklahoma-idUSKBN0OF0W520150530

Wife of man shot by state trooper wants to see dash cam footage
http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/wife-man-shot-state-trooper-wants-see-dash-cam-foo/nmRkw/

Good luck.  DPS got the Open Records Act changed so they can withhold it as long as they claim there is an investigation.

Its made all the British tabloids.

The troopers said they ordered the brothers to come, but claimed they shot the men for coming towards them.
Then there is the allusory phrase "A weapon was reportedly recovered from the scene" they could have elaborated on but didnt.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/31/oklahoma-pastor-nehemiah-fischer-trooper-shooting-flooding


Now two days after, the OHP is saying the victim had a gun. 
If he had come at them with a gun that would have been the absolute first thing the spokesmen would have shouted from the rooftops.

It looks like they are scouring the dashcam video and releasing peace-meal what they can get away with.

The dashcam video(s) would reveal the troopers badge number(s) which is a state secret at the moment, but every day they delay the video implies that its off somewhere being "fixed."

The worlds attention turns again to Oklahoma, where the Washington Post reported the victim had a Conceal Carry permit:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/01/the-tragic-events-that-led-oklahoma-troopers-to-fatally-shoot-an-assistant-pastor/

I know it's a small detail, but it's no longer called a Concealed Carry Permit.  It's just called a Handgun License, since Concealed and Open are contained on the same license now.

OHP released a little of the dash cam video. Cop in general talking to both men like an A-Hole and one of them bum rushes him and knocks them out of the camera view. Not sure why he did. But he did.
Should he die for that? probably not. I can't see that the man had any gun or weapon in his hand. But he did attack.

Yes, but now the OHP is saying the guy tried to drown the trooper.  Just out of view of the camera.  That's pretty convenient I'd say...

Thats was described as "officials Monday stressed that the uniformed troopers worked to de-escalate the situation before they were assaulted."

So now its the Officer Brelo defense:  Since it cant be proven which officer's bullets were fatal, they all get a pass.


...but there is a second dashcam.

Bum rush cops....It's a great idea.....!!!

But should it be a death sentence?  Seems like more and more lately the dispensation of deadly force is becoming the rule, not the exception.

Get a grip......

Wow, guess you sure told me.   ::)

Yeah, physically attacking an armed police officer is pretty much a death wish - there are not many ways that is going to end well for someone.  There are plenty of issues with police abuse of force (and creating hostile environments with confrontational attitudes), but here it appears the victim put himself in position where he was likely going to get shot and probably killed.

Because you always win shoving matches with guns.


“There is no controversy about this,” Gary J. James, an attorney representing Oklahoma troopers, told The Washington Post in an e-mail. It’s “all on video and audio from both state troopers vehicles.”

...that you are withholding.

Sounds strangely familiar.

"OHP insisted video captured by its troopers' dash cameras would exonerate them and show that the fight started when one of the paramedics assaulted a trooper."
http://www.newson6.com/story/10499495/ohp-denies-dashcam-video-request

I'm sure if you were armed and someone physcially attacked you, you would be content to just wrestle around in hopes you would eventually win the match and your attacker would not decide to grab your gun and use it against you.

Police have and are abusing their authority and that justifies a healthy level of suspicion in these incidences, but ignoring the the facts of each one and, in this case, the stupidity of physically attacking a police officer is ridiculous.  Always siding with the victim despite the evidence is just as bad as always believing police force is justified.

A couple bros. go shooting snakes in swampy flood waters. Of course they have to have some whiskey or beer. That's Oklahoma redneck stuff. They broke no laws.

Our saviors, The Highway Patrol, report they are "rescuing" two brothers from flood waters. Did they look like or sound like they were rescuing anyone? No, they were standing on the banks yelling at them like they were dumbass criminals instead of dumbass drunks. It sounded like one even told them to get out and hit the ground. This ain't Broderick Crawford or Andy Griffith type authorities. These guys took an attitude with some locals, enraged them and then dealt with their ignorant behavior by, what else?, just shoot the mf's.

Is that how we solve things these days? Piss people off, or scare them into running then ...just shoot them?

That's Oklahoma redneck stuff. They broke no laws.(sic)

Driving into high water while drunk and or drinking? Seems like a law was broken somewhere in there.
Of course the Patrolman has no idea of that until he is attacked by an upstanding Christian citizen who's drunk.
It seems Alcohol played a very large part in this tragedy. I too am not a happy drunk. It only took me 38 years to realize that and do something about it.

You must admit the agencies half-truths, stalling, lack of transparency and overall hubris tends to steer you in that direction.

Some of you would make excellent Monday morning quarterbacks.......

You subbing for Guido during the Glanz blackout?

Its called "I dont have to face the consequences."

If this 40 seconds is the only part of the dashcam videos that make the troopers look good...

Washington Post:   It doesn’t appear as if the squad car’s flashing lights are on, one of several reasons why the Fischer family says Nehemiah and Brandon might not have known it was a state trooper shouting at them.

“Settle down, do you hear me?” the officer says. “Settle down.” "Get on the ground, motherf*****!”

“Get him wet!” someone else yells, possibly Brandon Fischer encouraging his brother. (The troopers are seen parked on the dry road while the brothers are soaked from working in the flooded ditch.)
The “officer clearly aggressively steps towards the young men escalating a situation where a reasonable person could use force necessary to repel the assault by the trooper. The trooper goads the man in a tragic situation where they could have saved his vehicle. Instead the officer chose to goad and mock him refusing assistance.”
“Why is the OHP ordering them out of ankle-knee deep water in the first place?” “It didn’t look life-threatening. The only real danger in this situation is the OHP.”




It appears to be an attempt at discrediting the brother (who witnesses the homicide) and even though OHP is sitting on more footage from multiple dashcams, they are likely hoping this carefully-crafted distortion will be the only follow-up most media outlets will give this story.

So what is the toxicology report on the brothers? A Christian Minister and his brother rush two people that they don't recognize (they have Smokey Bear hats on, and they are dressed in trooper uniforms that are easily recognizable) because of alleged taunting and one of them is carrying a weapon on his hip (Yes I understand open carry law after living in Arizona for 13 years) and it turns out they are OHP and one attacks an officer and the officer is at fault? What are the officers supposed to do? Lay down and get the crap beat out of them or shot and killed?

Vashta, I challenge you to aggressively challenge a LEO with a gun on your hip, or better yet challenge/charge one in general and see what happens. Better yet, you have an agenda against any LEO, when something happens to you, don't call for help, just suck it up, and go on with life.

I'm sure that Vashta will regard this as a righteous kill of an officer. That he deserved what he got.

http://archive.azcentral.com/community/gilbert/articles/2010/03/25/20100325gr-shuhandler03271.html (http://archive.azcentral.com/community/gilbert/articles/2010/03/25/20100325gr-shuhandler03271.html)

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/attorney-says-brother-threatened-to-kill-troopers-who-shot-tulsa/article_cc6243a7-c7d2-5b87-8438-b0c74ee0c593.html

"(Trooper's Association Gary James said) Those troopers weren’t taunting them. They were on a state roadway. They have state jurisdiction there.”

Isnt this the same union lawyer who insisted that Trooper Martin's dashcam video clearly showed the ambulance paramedics attacking the trooper?  That the video completely exonerated Trooper Martin, and its too bad we cant show you that video?
(Spoiler: It didnt).

40 seconds of one of the 30-minute videos falls short of transparency.  We should also see the 2nd video of the trooper whose microphone wasnt underwater.  How much "preparation" does that require?

If anyone bowed up on me (not even counting the fact that the brother had a gun on his hip) and then shoved me to the ground, I would have shot them too.  

No matter what the cops did, charging up on them (or anyone else with a gun) and shoving them is a good way to dramatically shorten your life expectancy.

So, minister good guy who loves cops drinks and drives (1st offense) to what was first said to be to hunt and fish (2nd offense drinking while handling a firearm) which may or may not have resulted in him driving into high water which put him, his brother, and anyone who attempted to rescue them in danger.

They get stuck so someone calls for help. OHP shows up and wants them out of the water as 6 inches can sweep someone away and water was rising and falling quickly due to all of the rains we've had.

They walk up to the officer, who ID'ed himself as a state trooper with his patrol car lights flashing, and attacks him by shoving him (3rd offense) and taking him to the ground.


So, The cops are the bad guys for killing the guy who had committed between one and three felonies in last 30 minutes, one of which included assaulting an officer who was clearly identified by the flashing lights and verbal communication.

Yes, all of the video should be released from every camera on site.
Yes, the troopers should be held accountable if there was wrongdoing.
But, the brothers need to be held fully accountable for their actions that led up to the encounter as well as their actions during the encounter.


They simply don't drive into high water and they're not in danger and no rescue personnel has to show up and none of this happens. Not to mention several other choices they could have made to prevent this encounter from going bad.

If said troopers were such a rouge, undisciplined, bad cops they would've shot the guy as soon as he was within 15 feet of them being a jerk. Instead, they waited until they were attacked.


I get there are bad cops. I've been on the wrong of that before.  But if we all want to be victims then we will get our wish and all become victims... just not of the 'good' guys as more and more people figure if they push the cops far enough via disrespect, they'll get out of any trouble they got themselves into leading up to the encounter with the police.
They'll break into your house, beat the crap out of you, do other horrendous things, then ignore the cops orders to stop as they leave your house, get shot, killed, then the police will be on trial and the guy who did all of these bad things to you all of a sudden is the innocent victim in a police plot to shoot all potential bad guys on sight. Next week, his buddies might hit your parents house and get tased by the cops for ignoring them but get off because the PCP he was on caused the taser to give them a heart attack and almost die.

I am critical of the governmental use of power. Police officer's killing citizens is among the most power the government can use.

But if officers identify themselves and make a lawful, and reasonable request, and your response is to physically engage them - it will not end well.

If I, as a private citizen, try were to engage you with a friend and try to help, and you physically attacked my friend and I was armed - it probably wouldn't end well for you.

WD has the right of it. Release the rest of the video. IF it is as it seems, then it is a tragedy all around. The guy must have been frustrated, maybe intoxicated, and didn't take "orders" well. But if he attacked an officer who was engaged in lawful conduct, it is hard to argue that the officer should have just taken a beating.

Shouldn't be but it certainly is an example of evolution in action.  Darwin award to the associate pastor!

Im in agreement.  Seeing the preceding video might put a lot of that behavior into context; withholding it just casts suspicion.

Youre' sick.

So Ill match that.  Im starting a rumor that the man killed by the trooper was plotting against police, and staged the water rescue to decapitate unsuspecting rescuers.

Somewhere in the dashcam video he pledged allegiance to ISIS, but since it isnt in the 40-seconds we saw, we should just take the word of the union lawyer.  After all, it certainly seems credible (coming from an official) that the two men charged at the troopers, even if the video really seems to show them just walking.

Borrowed from another thread ---
“If a video can be shown to some members of the public, then there is no reason to keep it from any members of the public,” said Segal. “And if public officials can hand pick who gets to see a video of someone being killed or harmed by an officer, then they will inevitably make choices that serve public relations interests rather than actual transparency.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/06/04/after-usaama-rahim-shooting-ferguson-and-baltimore-police-transparency-requires-open-invitation/MSumEeKrO0oDdYFJdf08VO/story.html

I wonder how much a Police video editing job pays? Sounds like it would be a good job.  ::)

And very rewarding.  ;)

Hey, it’s just tax payer money!  ;D

It pays the same as the job for editing all of the recordings for non-emergency/911 calls, and all the radio traffic. $0.00.

Yeah, I'm sick of the thrill you get from posting quotes about officer involved shootings, including the Boston Marathon bombers, as the suspects as innocent victims, and your feelings that police are execution squads. Yes there are bad cops, just as there are bad politicians, bankers, lawyers, and taxi drivers. But you seem to take exception to criticize those that have to react in an instant as a bunch of untrained idiots.

Here is a fact for you. In 2012 there was ~12,980,000 arrests in the US by LEO's. Of that number, there was just over 410 reported deaths by lethal force by officers. That's .00003%. And as the article linked relates that's one per day. In a population of 318 million people it's a very small number.

Yes it's tragic that these people lose their lives by their choice.

There was almost three times the murders between Baltimore, Chicago, an Los Angeles alone for the same year at ~1000 for the three combined. Add Detroit and it is three times the number.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2014/aug/29/edward-flynn/fatal-police-shootings-occur-tiny-percentage-arres/ (http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2014/aug/29/edward-flynn/fatal-police-shootings-occur-tiny-percentage-arres/)

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Chicago-Illinois.html (http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Chicago-Illinois.html)

http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-maps/homicides/index.php?range=2012&district=all&zipcode=all&age=all&gender=all&race=all&cause=all&article=all&show_results=Show+results (http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-maps/homicides/index.php?range=2012&district=all&zipcode=all&age=all&gender=all&race=all&cause=all&article=all&show_results=Show+results)

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Los-Angeles-California.html (http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Los-Angeles-California.html)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2012/10/18/detroit-tops-the-2012-list-of-americas-most-dangerous-cities/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2012/10/18/detroit-tops-the-2012-list-of-americas-most-dangerous-cities/)

Yes LEO's make mistakes, and yes there are tragic results from those mistakes, but it seems that you have an agenda with regards to LEO's.

They outsource it. 

This has led to OHP shipping out dash cam video needed for internal use and criminal investigations to a computer
imaging professional to enhance the image to get the evidence needed.
http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/ohp-patrol-cars-getting-more-lights/nk4dB

George Lucas' ILM does great light sabers  ;)

Is that how it works? 
OK, here's my Transparency-by-Invitation invitation:  The cherry-picked clip we saw apparently exhibited a classic "fed up" response from the stranded men, a cullumnation of goading and prodding that elicites a pedictable reaction.

If that's wrong, its easy enough to find out.  I understand the Tulsa World and The Frontier have expressed an interest in the unedited, unredacted, unenhanced complete set of videos, so...

If your "fed up" response involves tackling a man with a gun, you have made a grave mistake.

Your numbers were debunked long ago:

At least 385 people shot and killed by police nationwide during the first five months of this year, more than two a day, according to a Washington Post analysis. That is more than twice the rate of fatal police shootings tallied by the federal government over the past decade, a count that officials concede is incomplete.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fatal-police-shootings-in-2015-approaching-400-nationwide/2015/05/30/d322256a-058e-11e5-a428-c984eb077d4e_story.html


Maybe when you are through copsterbating we can have a serious discussion as to why someone ended up dead in this hillbilly holocaust.

Maybe that what them two good old boys was hopin for, reckon?

I hope so.  I have a thing against preachers.

Huh?  American English please

That's whats the drunks were lookin for.....And got it.......

"Bum rush" is the exact phrase the troopers were caught off-camera using when they were deciding on their story.  You must be a clairvoyant.



It only took a month for the video lab to doctor the dashcam video to show what OHP wanted to show.
Had that not been necessary, OHP would have released the video right away without any fancy editing.

The release of the "enhanced" version pretty much guarantees we will never see the raw, unedited videos.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/they-bum-rushed-us-ohp-releases-full-dash-cam-videos/article_1dce0554-fa30-5508-bdbd-eb76abcf6061.html

Other than documenting the troopers rehearsing their story, the edited record is untrustworthy and tainted by the tampering.

The conspiracy loop has been completed when all evidence contrary to your position is shrugged off as simply proof of the greater conspiracy.  Congratulations.

The Okmulgee County District Attorney’s Office has cleared two Oklahoma Highway Patrol troopers of criminal wrongdoing in the May 29 shooting death of a Tulsa man, officials confirmed Thursday.

OHP Capt. Paul Timmons said the office informed him that Troopers Mark Southall and Michael Taylor will not be charged in the death of Nehemiah Fischer, who troopers alleged was seen on dash-cam video attacking Southall in an altercation that stemmed from a stranded-motorist call south of Bixby around 9:25 p.m.

A news release on the case from Okmulgee County District Attorney O.R. Barris states that Taylor was the trooper who fired the fatal shots and that he was justified in doing so because he was protecting Southall from harm.

Fischer, 35, was an assistant pastor at Faith Bible Church in Tulsa.

The medical examiner’s report on Fischer’s death has not yet been completed.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/okmulgee-county-da-clears-ohp-troopers-in-fatal-shooting-of/article_97bf90d8-e789-5203-ba66-bb1d1d81f80b.html



Why we are not surprised


In Okmulgee County, where the district attorney has been assigned to investigate alleged wrongdoing by the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office, records and interviews show a variety of connections between law enforcement and prosecutors over the years as well as potential conflicts.

An investigator for the Okmulgee County district attorney’s office is being sued in a case alleging excessive force against a man who was Tased during a 2013 arrest. The same investigator, Gary McCollum, was involved in a botched arrest in 2005 in which Tulsa County Assessor and Reserve Deputy Ken Yazel shot an Okmulgee County man in the buttocks.
http://www.tulsafrontier.com/records-show-links-between-okmulgee-county-glanz/

Wild partying that included extramarital sex and several nights of hard drinking at an Oklahoma law enforcement training program has led to the firing of one Highway Patrol trooper and the resignations of two others.

Three other troopers and a female game warden were suspended.  "It's a bad deal," said Oklahoma Highway Patrol Chief Rick Adams.

Some of the troopers were disciplined for excessive drinking while subject to being called out to work, although none were on duty, Adams said. Some were rebuked for sexual activities involving the married game warden, who was the only female student. She is the wife of a trooper who was not at the training session.

Adams likened what happened to an "frat party" or a  company social that got "carried away and went way too far."

"A bunch of young men made a really bad decision, bad choices and they wish they could take them back," he said. "But you can't take some things back."

No criminal charges were sought, The Oklahoman was told.

The inappropriate conduct occurred from May 5-15 at a narcotics assault training program at Camp Gruber put on by the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control, according to information pieced together by The Oklahoman through interviews and Open Records Act requests.

About 50 law enforcement officers from various agencies participated in the training program, including eight members of the highway patrol's elite tactical team. Six team members have either been disciplined or resigned following a four-month internal investigation. The other two were not involved, Adams said.

Trooper Ricky Ellis received the harshest punishment. Commissioner of Public Safety Michael Thompson sent the trooper his termination notice on Oct. 8, citing several instances of misconduct.

"According to your statements, on the first night, you drank to the point of intoxication, and you had sexual contact with the female student, upstairs in the female barracks, in the female student's bed," the termination notice says.

The trooper admitted he later briefly engaged in "sexual intercourse with the female student in the bathroom/shower area of the barracks," characterizing the encounter as an "accident," the termination notice states.

Trooper Ellis was married at the time and knew the woman was married to another trooper, the document says.

"You admitted that you consumed alcohol nearly every night during the training, and that you drank to the point of intoxication nearly every time you consumed alcohol," the termination notice states. "On at least one of your many intoxicated occasions, you drank alcohol to the point of memory loss resulting in you not being able to recall details of the event."

Ellis, who had been a trooper for three years, plans to appeal his termination, his attorney said.

Another trooper, Matthew Wilczek, was suspended for 13 days without pay for drinking to the point he could not operate a vehicle and recording a video of the same female student "lifting her shirt in front of other troopers" on the opening day of the training session. Wilczek, who has been a trooper for eight years, also was criticized for "sending copies of the video to some other troopers."

A third trooper, William Hayden, received a five-day suspension without pay after admitting he drank alcohol about six times while at the training school, including drinking "to the point of intoxication a couple of times."

"You also admitted that on at least one occasion ... you drank to the point you 'blacked out' and that you could not even remember going to bed," his disciplinary notice states.
Hayden has served three years as a trooper.

Receiving a less severe one-day suspension without pay was trooper Matthew Villines, who admitted that once during the training school he drank to the point that he would not have been able to perform his duties if his tactical team had been called out. Villines has been a trooper for seven years.

The female game warden involved in the scandal, Emily Long, was suspended 15 days without pay and placed on six months probation for "unprofessional conduct, negligence of duty, and conduct unbecoming a public employee," records show.

Long's Aug. 18 disciplinary letter provided no details concerning specific misbehavior that prompted her suspension and Richard Hatcher, director of the wildlife department, declined to elaborate.
"I think appropriate action was taken," Hatcher said.

Long, who has been an employee of the agency for five years, did not return multiple voice mail messages seeking comment.

Troopers Chris West Jr. and Jason Henson resigned Oct. 9 following internal investigations and were not the subject of disciplinary actions.

No public records were available detailing their actions.

West had been a trooper for six years and Henson had served eight years.

About a month after the Camp Gruber training session, Long and her husband became involved in a domestic confrontation at their Stillwater home, in part because of the sexual activity that had occurred at Camp Gruber, according to Trooper Ellis' termination notice. Long's husband called fellow troopers to his home to assist him.

The Oklahoman asked the Department of Public Safety for an incident report, but was told the agency "did not have documents responsive to this request."

Union Attorney Gary James, who represents the disciplined troopers, described them as "good guys" who got caught up in events.

James said the trooper plans to appeal his termination.

Mark Woodward, spokesman for the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control, said the agency has been conducting the narcotics assault training program annually since 1989.

The program is physically demanding and includes things like rappelling out of helicopters into remote marijuana fields, tracking criminals in the wilderness, treating injuries and identifying and disarming explosive devices around the perimeters of marijuana fields, he said.

"This is the first incident that we've been aware of that had to be investigated. I've been with the agency 20 years.... It's a very regimented school. These guys stay busy from basically the crack of dawn until sometimes late in the evening.

We do everything we can to make sure everybody follows the rules."

State drug agency officials didn't hear that there had been a problem at the event until several weeks after it was over, he said.

 "We really didn't have any direct knowledge about what took place other than that there was an incident that the troopers were investigating," Woodward said.

 Of the 50 available slots in the program, 40 to 45 are generally filled by Oklahoma state, local and federal law enforcement officials and five to 10 generally come from out of state, he said.

Woodward said this year's program was federally funded through a $150,000 DEA grant, which paid not only the training program, but also supported four, week-long marijuana eradication missions carried out in the state.   http://newsok.com/article/5455815

She is Payne County's first Game Warden.  That whole thing is a shame!

Almost lost it when the governor said it was necessary because adultery isnt tolerated ...

http://www.fox23.com/videos/news/video-officials-respond-to-ohp-scandal/vDdJrh/

Sounds like game warden Long might have taken one on the chin.

As far as Governor Mary is concerned, she’s pretty predictable, isn’t she?

man, you stole my joke!
+1

Even if you dispute the reasoning behind the shooting, giving the troopers bravery medals is self-serving and crass.



OHP gives bravery award to troopers who killed Tulsa Pastor.

Dashcam video shows OHP Troopers Mark Southall’s and Michael Taylor taunting brothers Nehemiah and Brandon Fischer before fatally shooting Nehemiah.
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/3e/a3e8208c-72f7-5e3e-81b0-218264dfe42e/556d349abe60f.image.jpg)
A frame grab from an Oklahoma Highway Patrol dash-cam video shows a state trooper pointing a gun in the direction of Nehemiah Fischer and another trooper just before Fischer was shot. MIKE SIMONS/Tulsa World file

What a classless way to end a tragedy.

Only to the family and most of society.  Not to the OHP....obviously.

Three years after beaten by OHP, charges dropped against deaf victim.
http://kfor.com/2017/01/19/exclusive-charges-dropped-against-man-at-the-center-of-a-firestorm/

(http://www.uglyjudge.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Oklahoma-Troopers-Kelton-Montel-Hayes-and-Eric-Foster-Suspended-With-Pay-For-Beating-Deaf-Man.jpg)

Being deaf isn't an excuse to hit and run.

He is still facing a misdemeanor in Cleveland County for alleged involvement in the hit and run incident from that night.

Oh, he backed into the troopers car and drove off.  That certainly justifies being beaten to a pulp by two armed men.

Im speechless that anyone could defend what was done to that man.

Didn't watch the video.   Probably excessive.   He also should have known not to drive away from an accident.

I was always taught, don't make the cops chase you or when they catch you, they will make you pay for making them run.

You're introducing "alternative facts" that while relevant and factual parts of the story, they are not important regarding Vashta's agenda.

Hit and run is a misdemeanor, so is jaywalking, and not an excuse to beat the lawbreaker.

How about you let the courts decide what is alternative, relevant and factual. Spent any time around hearing impaired? Think the OHP ought to have some training in that area? I have and I do. It is an impairment that seems to be growing due to environmental factors.

Yes, I do have an understanding of dealing with speech/hearing/vision impaired. I was part of the ADA team with my job being compliance with telecommunications equipment. My comment was a reference to the usual one sided viewpoint, and the ignoring of other facts by Vashta. Does the OHP not teach troopers some basic sign language? This is something that should have been implemented years ago, but I forget, the state wants to spend money on a 10 Commandments Statue ballot question since it's the most important thing.

I try to filter out posters passions and deal with their information delivery. Yes, he/she is one sided. In this case it seems there is pretty much one side. We will end up paying out some tax dollars cause I doubt seriously they get any basic sign language other than a middle finger!

This state and their obsession with religion, republicans and oil is becoming legendary. At least we supported golden boy so he won't punish us. I mean, anymore than is necessary.....

I WONDER IF IT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH LOUD MUSIC.
 
 ;D

 :D I'm quite sure it does. When I was carting around hearing impaired children I began to notice that congenital hearing problems were much more common than I had known. Apparently, there are environmental and chemical determinants at play. Drug use during pregnancy, damaged chromosomes, poor pre-natal care. Amazing technology is being applied to deal with it. Sign language will always be like a first language for them but technology is affording some other solutions. The good news about that is they tend to be very precocious children. They have to learn two languages early on, signing and signing in English. They also learn to read lips and social signals very well. Smart kids.

(http://cf.c.ooyala.com/o4OTQyOTE6mQyv2FQOkMKsSpykcMx0rV/promo309155437)

Pearson keeps a placard in his car that reads: "Driver is deaf. Failure to follow verbal commands means I am NOT hearing you."
It is his first tool for communicating his disability in a situation where there may have been misunderstanding.

He had the placard in his car the night he was arrested.

The Tulsa World wouldn't have had to look too far to debunk its own OHP pity piece:


Guinn often lets folks off with warnings, unless they are truly deserving of a citation, (Oklahoma Highway Patrol Trooper Jamie Guinn) said. The OHP doesn’t have ticket quotas, he said...
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/secrets-of-an-ohp-trooper-pulling-over-fbi-agents-guy/article_44e9d15a-fdab-5d42-bd8c-6a44b322e8d1.html

Liar, liar

OHP troopers graded on number of arrests, tickets
The Oklahoma Highway Patrol is using a formula to evaluate troopers based in part on the number of tickets they write and number of arrests made, records show.
One policy sets goals for northeastern Oklahoma's Troop L of about four tickets for every 10 traffic stops and 30 arrests per year for alcohol offenses.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/ohp-troopers-graded-on-number-of-arrests-tickets/article_da17a208-e12c-59da-820c-b20e4ae76ea0.html


...nor does the agency receive much money from writing a citation.

pants on fire

ticket revenues go into a fund to purchase new patrol cars
http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorials/quotas/article_896bf43f-9633-52e7-85bc-d0368e168678.html

If you are going to quote out of context, let me point it out...     The COMMA, not a PERIOD.


He had the placard in his car the night he was arrested, but he didn't have a chance to show the officers who acted quickly when they pulled him over.

And you know why he didn't have a chance to show it?   Because he hit something, then drove away.   Everyone knows that isn't legal...   Again....   When you run, it pisses off the cops.

Does the law allow leeway for "pissed off" cops so that they may beat misdemeanor violators without repercussion? Because they had become "pissed off" after a driver backed into their car and forced them to chase him? Several times that has been mentioned and it is irrelevant.

It may be pragmatic advice, but you have no obligation as a citizen to keep cops happy or sedate. They have the obligation to control their emotions and act professionally. Most do. At least they didn't shoot the guy.

Obviously it does.   There were no charges filed.

Cute. Civil charges may cost them eventually. If this is the kind of policing you desire, then enjoy.

I don't care what color you are.   If you run from the cops, I will give them a pass on some sort of reciprocation.   

You would be suing the taxpayers.  Its only when you can sue the actual offender that there would be any sort of deterrent.

Spoken like a fascist. Dumb but hard as rocks. Reciprocation would involve running the other way.

Deaf man paid $175,000 in taxpayer funds to settle claims Oklahoma troopers used excessive force during traffic stop
Was "ignoring commands"
http://newsok.com/article/5583890

OHP wrong in not releasing more information on fatal high-speed chases

http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorials/tulsa-world-editorial-ohp-wrong-in-not-releasing-more-information/article_33ed0b7e-948e-56a6-bece-542df498d62f.html

So two innocent people were killed in 14 months worth of high speed chases?

I hate that that happens, but the article doesn't give us any numbers on how many chases there were.

Those numbers could be really good.

TPD ran over another fleeing pedestrian last week so you might be right if we could compare; the secrecy makes that difficult.

OK that troopers raced to be the lead pursuer
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/seven-oklahoma-highway-patrol-chases-resulted-in-eight-deaths-all/article_257c82ed-ffc0-5d02-a7a8-03a77dd93cc0.html

S E V E N

Running from the cops is a calculated risk.   If they kill those people the public is entitled to know the odds.

In the case of the OHP, it is apparently 1 per quarter.

Including those who were simply in the way?  OHP kiled one of their own, that should have been a big red flag.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/a-wrong-way-chase-turned-a-larceny-suspect-into-a/article_ee64d298-c8b9-5837-9958-97d0af850a36.html

Right....   You linked to those several times...   Two innocent lives lost in 14 months. 

What's the acceptable rate?

Probably right in there somewhere. 

Glad to see you hold the LEOs so accountable.   ::)

They aren't accountable.    You and I are accountable for their mistakes when we have to pay out millions in settlements. 

That is what happens when you task them with apprehending criminals, you have to accept the consequences...   (Or change the policies.)

Did you fall down from the spinning?  Holy cow.

No?  How do you see it?   

Two a quarter unjustifiably killed is ok with TeeDub... just wonder how he would feel if those two were his closest family?   Father, mother, brothers, sister, etc.  After all, it's "only" two per quarter...!!

Two per quarter?   I thought it was two innocent people in 14 months?

Ooops...sorry!  I mis-remembered the number when I typed!


Still not good. 

Obviously zero would be better, but you can't just let criminals go if they should happen to run.   (Or can you?)   

We really don't have any basis to judge without knowing things like how many pursuits were there during that time frame, how many were called off due to dangerous conditions, etc....     This was a flame-bait article that was just meant to start trolls without any real facts or points for discussion.

The reason we dont have better data on pursuits is DPS hides it behind their obtuse interpretation of the Open Records Act, where if something isnt specifically listed in the Act than they dont have to release it.

"Seven Oklahoma Highway Patrol chases resulted in eight deaths. All were within policy that OHP keeps secret" is a topic worthy of discussion if you believe in accountability.  DPS says they gain a tactical advantage by keeping secret policies that other departments dont hide.  No facts support that.


The spinning in the opposite direction from excusing Trump when he says he doesnt counteracts the torque.

Could it be possible that the OHP doesn't have a written pursuit policy and that they leave it up to officer discretion?   Again, I have no idea, just asking.

And how pathetic an excuse for them to use would that be?   Organization that has been around for about 80 years, so would desperately hope they have some type of "training manual" that would address that and dozens of other points.   Now you have me curious, too.

Training manual is not a "pursuit policy."   I am not a lawyer, but could having an official written policy could open them up to lawsuits, whereas a handbook of guidelines and formalized training would leave things open to individual discretion?   

Sometimes having written policies remove flexibility that is needed.

(Read this book on similar issues...  A little dry, but it talks about how over regulation sometimes stifles innovation and practical decisions.  Micromanaging everything and leaving no decision making power to the individual, etc.etc.)
https://www.amazon.com/Death-Common-Sense-Suffocating-America/dp/0812982746 

True.  Either way, though you are gonna be liable.  I have run into the question of written employees handbook before.  Some of the companies I have worked for tried to cover every little detail, some didn't.  I have taken the approach of a very minimalist unwritten 'handbook'.  Since we are very small, the lawyer says it should be good.  Let the payroll service handle the minutia that I don't wanna bother with and just let everyone know that if they piss me off, they're gone!   Lol...not really...we talk about it more.  Sometimes even talk about it more in our outdoor voices...  But then none of us are ever gonna shoot someone in a high speed chase.  I hope...

Utopian Dreamscape.  Would that it were possible, but that genie was let out of the bottle probably 4,000 +  years ago with Hammurabi and his predecessors.

Two troopers racing to be the lead pursuer killed another trooper, which does suggest a lack of formal discipline (if not discretion).

Man vs car....   Car always wins.

Deadly wrong-way pursuit led by troopers on Tulsa highway violates international model policy supported by Oklahoma Highway Safety Office
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/deadly-wrong-way-pursuit-led-by-troopers-on-tulsa-highway/article_fe600732-845a-50cb-86c0-7d8a88976d07.html




NORMAN — The Oklahoma Highway Patrol has asked a district judge to empty the courtroom if testimony comes up regarding the agency’s pursuit policy in a felony murder trial involving a state trooper’s death — another instance in which the agency has vigorously protected that document.

A Tulsa World reporter had to leave an open public court hearing Monday afternoon in Cleveland County that was convened for just that — to argue how protected OHP’s pursuit policy may be once the trial arrives. An attorney for the Highway Patrol objected to anyone being present during an OHP major’s testimony and arguments in the courtroom who wasn’t a trooper or involved in the case.

D’Angelo Burgess is charged with felony first-degree murder in OHP Lt. Heath Meyer’s death in July 2017. Meyer succumbed to critical injuries 10 days after another trooper’s cruiser struck Meyer at a roadblock on Interstate 35 in Moore as the Highway Patrol chased a vehicle that fled a traffic stop for following too closely.

“(A)ny time such material is shown, read or described in open court, whether during examination, argument, or otherwise, the court room will be cleared so no person other than the Judge, court personnel, attorneys, Defendant, witness testifying, and jurors are present.”

https://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/oklahoma-highway-patrol-wants-empty-courtroom-if-testimony-involves-its/article_97457204-64fd-5c2d-81f3-e592e93b3a69.html





 “Democracy dies in the dark”
   -- Judge Damon J. Keith

Gov. Kevin Stitt has put on hold the reappointment of the state’s public safety commissioner until an investigation into possible corruption at the Oklahoma Highway Patrol is complete.

Taking over the investigation will be Attorney General Mike Hunter’s top agent, The Oklahoman has learned. The takeover comes after concerns were raised about an internal investigation at the Oklahoma Highway Patrol into blackmail accusations against a patrol captain.

Capt. Troy German is accused of trying to blackmail Commissioner Rusty Rhoades last year to get a promotion to major or help securing a political appointment.
He allegedly threatened to expose information of improprieties involving Rhoades and Highway Patrol Chief Michael Harrell in the promotion of a patrol captain, Brian Orr.

Of concern was the patrol was using its own investigators to look into accusations against German but not fully into his claims of promotion improprieties.

Rhoades, 51, of Choctaw, was appointed commissioner of the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety in 2017. Stitt announced in December Rhoades would be reappointed.
“Following our public announcement of the commissioner, the governor’s office was notified of allegations and an internal investigation of the matter at the Department of Public Safety, and we chose to hold the nomination until investigations were complete,” a spokeswoman said Thursday.

Hunter said Thursday he consulted with Rhoades about the investigation. “It was determined to be in the best interests of the Department of Public Safety and all parties involved to allow our office to assume oversight, control and direction of the investigation,” the attorney general said.

The Department of Public Safety said Thursday it will cooperate fully. “The agency and its administration continue to be committed to transparency and accountability, and are fully confident that the appropriate party or parties will be held responsible after (Attorney) General Hunter’s examination of the totality of the evidence,” a spokeswoman said.

German, 47, of Chandler, is on paid administrative leave. He denies wrongdoing and claims to be a whistleblower.
German met with Rhoades on Sept. 11 at a Charleston’s Restaurant in Oklahoma City and Sept. 28 at a Starbucks in Midwest City, according to a court affidavit.

German in July secretly recorded Orr admitting he was told what would be asked by a promotion board. Orr was then a lieutenant.
The start of the recording was played for The Oklahoman by a source. In the recording, Orr said the chief disclosed in a phone call specific examination subjects such as what to do when a trooper is killed in the line of duty. Orr quoted the chief as saying, “You screw this up, it’s on you.”

Orr, 46, is one of the state’s more visible troopers because he has been a bodyguard for years for the University of Oklahoma’s head coach at football games. He delighted fans in 2013 when he laid a blindside tackle on a man who ran onto Owen Field during a timeout.

The state Personnel Act prohibits a state employee from furnishing “any special or secret information” to someone seeking a classified state job.

Asked specifically whether the chief helped Orr, the Department of Public Safety said Thursday “mentoring” of troopers in the promotional process is not only acceptable but encouraged.

“The type and extent of assistance in preparation for examinations rendered to Brian Orr by both Michael Harrell and Troy German is evident from a review of the objective evidence provided to investigators,” the Department of Public Safety said.

https://newsok.com/article/5620630/oklahomas-public-safety-commissioner-not-reappointed-because-of-investigation?

Nope.  No collusion there, either...!

A wanted man driving a stolen vehicle on the Creek Turnpike was handcuffed by a trooper. The suspect managed to drive off in the trooper’s cruiser, so the trooper hopped into the stolen car and began to chase him.

What happened next in those high-stakes moments on an evening in February 2018 in Broken Arrow? The public won’t know because the trooper didn’t document those actions, which the Oklahoma Highway Patrol says weren’t a pursuit anyway.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/what-happened-when-a-trooper-chased-his-stolen-cruiser-in/article_d802152a-89d3-5204-a5ab-68ae188af5e5.html

The defense read aloud and repeatedly emphasized a part of the OHP pursuit policy that says terminating a pursuit “may be the most rational means of preserving life and property of the public, the (trooper) and the suspect.”

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/testimony-in-murder-trial-over-trooper-s-vehicular-pursuit-death/article_86945dc3-dfdf-58cc-a5f3-ac18ea9056f3.html

Tulsa World editorial: Why was the OHP fighting so hard to keep this a secret?

The Oklahoma Highway Patrol fought long and hard, but now, everyone knows the secrets of its pursuit policy ... and that it wasn’t worth hiding at all.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorials/tulsa-world-editorial-why-was-the-ohp-fighting-so-hard/article_002840a2-764a-5a20-9862-8ed1cbf80c19.html

Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt replaces Public Safety commissioner

A shake-up is underway at the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety, the state agency that runs the Oklahoma Highway Patrol and handles the issuance, revocation and reinstatement of driver's licenses.

Out are Rusty Rhoades, the DPS commissioner, and Col. Michael Harrell, the chief of the Highway Patrol.

Taking over as commissioner is John Scully, the director of the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control.

Gov. Kevin Stitt made the change after months of turmoil at the Department of Public Safety and repeated delays in coming into compliance with the federal REAL ID law.

Scully, 58, ran the state narcotics bureau for three years after working for the Oklahoma City Police Department for more than 32 years. He was a deputy chief for the police department his last eight years there.

Rhoades held the agency's top spot less than two years. Both he and Harrell retired abruptly Monday afternoon.

The departure comes just 17 days after a former patrol captain filed a civil rights lawsuit against them in Oklahoma City federal court.

The former captain, Troy German, claims Rhoades falsely accused him of blackmail to discredit his effort to expose a cheating scandal. He alleges Rhoades, Harrell and a patrol captain, Brian Orr, presented fabricated evidence to prosecutors that resulted in a criminal case against him.

German alleges the chief — at the commissioner's direction — gave Orr ahead of time the specific questions that would be asked by a promotional board.

The criminal case against German was dropped in June after Oklahoma County District Attorney David Prater was subpoenaed to testify as a defense witness and after German agreed to retire.

Prater was expected to testify that Rhoades had wanted a charge filed even though no investigation had been done yet. Prater also was expected to testify that Rhoades in their December meeting — when asked — could not articulate what exactly German was threatening to expose and what he specifically was supposed to do to prevent it.

In law enforcement circles and inside the highway patrol, serious questions arose about Rhoades' accusations because he didn't make them until long after he met with the captain at a Charleston's Restaurant and at a Starbucks in September.

Rhoades told investigators in December that German had threatened to expose wrongdoing in the promotional process unless he was made major or got support in his bid for a political appointment.

Rhoades only came forward in November after learning German had spoken with the chief of staff of the Senate president pro tempore, according to an internal investigative report. He told investigators he had promised to help German because he "decided it was the best way to keep German from spreading lies that ultimately would be embarrassing and sound horrible to the public."

German denied making any blackmail demands. He claims he met with Rhoades, at the urging of the former director of the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, to give the commissioner "the opportunity to correct the wrongdoings."

Because of the controversy, the attorney general in February called for policy changes in the promotions process at the Oklahoma Highway Patrol "to avoid any appearance of impropriety."

https://oklahoman.com/article/5640247/public-safety-commissioner-replaced   https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/world-analysis-trooper-activity-high-in-same-area-where-new/article_9d660b95-63ec-5756-acf0-1b3910ae4018.html

Whistleblowers everywhere demonized...

Trooper disciplined for high-speed chase that ended when patrol car rolled on Tulsa highway

A state trooper received “informal discipline” about weighing a vehicular pursuit’s risk against an offense’s seriousness after he rolled his cruiser on a Tulsa highway while chasing a motorist for failure to yield and speeding.

The Oklahoma Highway Patrol released 44 pages of documents Friday, nearly a year and a half after the Tulsa World first requested records related to the April 7, 2018, incident. The agency provided the newspaper three weeks ago with video of the chase, which doesn’t show the crash because the rollover caused an 'equipment malfunction', according to the agency.
“I’m fine,” Trooper Jamie Guinn can be heard saying soon after the wreck, with audio recovered from that point on.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/trooper-disciplined-for-high-speed-chase-that-ended-when-patrol/article_9ceb94ba-b908-5338-a678-925bf114e2d1.html


The Oklahoma Highway Patrol says a Tulsa man was killed when the vehicle he was driving crashed while being pursued by troopers.
OHP spokeswoman Sarah Stewart said 35-year-old Aaron Starks was being pursued by two highway patrol troopers at speeds of nearly 120 miles per hour when he lost control while swerving to avoid stop sticks placed on the roadway by a third trooper.

https://www.publicradiotulsa.org/post/tulsa-man-dies-ohp-chase

Instead of having officers engage in a potentially escalating and dangerous chase with a fleeing vehicle, police can use the helicopter to easily — and safely — track the vehicle from above. Then, when the fleeing vehicle stops, its location can quickly be relayed to officers on the ground.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/we-re-a-force-multiplier-tpd-unveils-new-million-high/article_d2c24e41-b55d-544c-ac46-884b58d7d8fa.html

Reality:

An unidentified Coweta man was critically injured when state troopers forced a fleeing vehicle off the road.
"A TPD Air Support unit arrived and took over the pursuit near the entrance to the Muskogee Turnpike," Tulsa Police Lt. Joel Ward states in a news release.
An OHP trooper performed a "tactical vehicle intervention", according to an OHP report. The Ford Focus ran off the highway and rolled about 2½ times. The driver was listed in critical condition, according to Tulsa police.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/stolen-vehicle-pursued-about-miles-before-crash-forced-near-wagoner/article_595d8055-9894-5a5f-bab1-59c39a5a7344.html



Oklahoma Highway Patrol IDs victims after another fatal pursuit but leaves unanswered questions
The Oklahoma Highway Patrol provided few details Wednesday but did release the names of two people burned to death in a rollover crash in when a trooper’s vehicle maneuver spun out their car during a pursuit.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/oklahoma-highway-patrol-ids-victims-after-another-fatal-pursuit-but-leaves-unanswered-questions/article_435e6fc6-8a0a-5389-926d-64107dea34c5.html



The stolen vehicle pursuit that recently led to the deaths of an uninvolved woman and her daughter in east Tulsa had at least one stretch in which the eluder drove on the wrong side of a street and state troopers apparently continued the chase.
The Oklahoma Highway Patrol’s pursuit policy prohibits troopers from chasing a fleeing vehicle “the wrong way in opposing lanes of traffic” when there are at least four lanes. An arrest affidavit states that the eluder in the fatal Tulsa pursuit drove the wrong way on 41st Street — a five-lane roadway.
https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/ohp-pursuit-that-left-two-uninvolved-motorists-dead-included-quarter-mile-stretch-with-eluder-in/article_e84ab562-811e-11eb-9194-afa0b5a7e874.html

Have said it before.  Will say it again.  It is the height of ignorance to not have the means to turn a car - or motorcycle, truck, etc - off at the beginning of a pursuit!  The technology has been there for many years!   (Longer than Onstar has been installed in every GM car.)  And it is dirt cheap and garage door opener simple!   Just a simple click of a button and the car stops.  No wrecks, rollovers, bursting into flame, etc.  Just stops.