The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

I know, I know....I shouldn't even peek between my covered eyes at his site but I guess I like train wrecks.

It is his right to endorse Chris Medlock and forgive his past, significant cases of dishonesty, but why attempt to smear Dewey Bartlett in what should be Mr. Bates' work to build upon the support he sees for Medlock? To what end would anyone, Democrat or Republican, publish public divorce proceedings when they are absent of even any insinuation of illegality or ethical misconduct? And then to condemn the man for taking legal steps to ensure that such matters remain private where they should have otherwise remained? Is it in our collective interest that modern political discourse remain upon the road that dictates that the ends  justify the means? To quote a man on whose Presidential campaign I worked, "Where is the outrage?"

And granted, I've been away from Tulsa for awhile... but why must local members (Bates, Medlock) of the party that I have devoted the majority of my professional life to engage in the type of class warfare that we rightfully admonish those Democrats who engage in such shameful tactics? Is it right or helpful to both my party and this great city to label members of our own party as undeserving of support because they have personal wealth? Really? Does hard work both by the individual and their family now warrant condemnation?

This city is great and it is its citizenry that makes it so....despite the best efforts of the likes of Michael Bates and Chris Medlock

Did not do any good...Medlock got smoked.....

Yep it works so much better with our heads in the sand doesn't it.

Oh please. Democrats do not engage in such shameful tactics. You left your tin foil hat back in DC....and besides, birthers, teabaggers, and riddlers all come from deep inside Tulsa's political republican leadership. So don't show up and say all dirt throwing is equal. First, say what a disgrace the party has become on the national level for following the direction of the radical right wing and secondly, for never renouncing the idiocy their leadership condones.

And get a grip. Medlock and Bates spoon feed each other. It's a joke. They support each others' ego. Neither one has done anything to further the "values" they portray unless it's in tune with the right wing. They are clearly Wingnutians from Dumbf#*kistan.  

But since you've been away, the city has become polarized over privatized solutions to citizens concerns. Policies are no longer dictated from the men's locker room at Southern Hills. It's been relegated to big mansions. That's what happens to the club when you let the females in.

The race is on....and it looks like it's between two south side affluenza victims. Not good. Dewey needs to run as a man who has served the city as a councilor and aims to build consensus among his councilors. Adelson needs to hold up as a good family man in TV commercials because that's all that seems to matter anyway.

Democrats invent their own shameful tactics to avoid being mistaken for Republicans.

Dan Boren?

Tulsa politics may be confusing to someone just back from a sojourn elsewhere. Assuming you are who you say you are and not just a sock puppet for some local typing away in his mom's basement, take a closer look before you jump to conclusions.

You may not be aware that Dewey Bartlett Jr endorsed Tulsa's incumbent Democratic mayor for re-election this year before she decided not to run. He endorsed her despite several Republican city councilors considering the race. Does that not disturb you, as a long-time professional Republican operative?

In 2006, Medlock swallowed his pride after losing to the incumbent Republican mayor in the primary, was a good party soldier, and worked to convince his supporters to back Bill LaFortune. As far as I am aware, Dewey Bartlett Jr did not lift a finger to help Bill LaFortune get re-elected.  So who should a loyal Republican support -- Medlock, the good party soldier, or Bartlett Jr, the turncoat?

And how do you make sense of this through your two-party, class-warfare grid:

A Democratic mayor and a Republican campaign consultant (the same one working for Mr. Bartlett) recruited an affable but financially troubled candidate and got him relocated from outside the city into a council district just in time to run him as a Republican against an incumbent Republican. The incumbent Republican is CEO of a small manufacturing company, he's a CPA, and he has a sharp mind. He's the closest thing the City Council has to Tom Coburn in terms of quantifying and calling attention to the seriousness of our city's fiscal predicament. Wealthy Republicans and wealthy Democrats banded together with the firefighters' union to defeat the intelligent, independent-minded incumbent and replace him with a very nice man who is in way over his head and will do what he is told.

Don't believe me? Watch the District 5 candidate forum for yourself. (http://"http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?pi=0&ps=20&sf=&sa=0&sq=&dm=0&p=A400C5445C12E75F")

I support a total and permanent repeal of the death tax. I'm happy for people who have inherited wealth. But I don't think having inherited wealth is an indicator of wisdom or economic good sense. Although I don't agree with him politically, I'm impressed with someone like George Kaiser who takes an inheritance and turns it into something much bigger.

I don't think that a good Republican is required to be impressed with a candidate just because he inherits millions, especially when his attorney writes that "despite Dewey's best managerial efforts, there was no enhancement in the value of Dewey's inherited estate..." (this during a period when the S&P 500 almost tripled) and "[Dewey and his wife] lived a lifestyle which exceeded Dewey's salary and thus consumed a large portion of Dewey's separate estate." It's not class warfare to call attention to the discrepancy between his claims of being a successful businessman who knows how to create jobs and the statements made on his behalf in a court of law.

How many jobs has Dewey Bartlett Jr created? I don't think he's ever answered that question. The only numbers I've found on his company's head count show it hovering at around 10, plus or minus a few.

Dewey Bartlett Jr isn't undeserving of support because of inherited wealth. He's undeserving of support because he offered no substance in his campaign, because he dodged debates, and because he can't back up the central rationale of his candidacy -- his claims of job creation and business success.

In what topsy-turvy world is Dewey Bartlett Jr a good Republican? Does Dewey deserve a pass from Republicans for his endorsement of Kathy Taylor just because his daddy was a governor and senator and his granddaddy made a fortune in oil?

"  I'm impressed with someone like George Kaiser who takes an inheritance and turns it into something much bigger. "

Not so sure Herman Kaiser saw it this way. And am pretty certain George Kaiser grew a family business rather than inherited it. If he did inherit anything, it was ethics, generosity, and genius. What's wrong with his politics?

Try not to be so mean spirited. It would be understandable if you were objective. But it sounds like sour grapes being squeezed by Republicans.

It's not like the next Mayor is going to be able to do much with this budgetary mess. Besides, the city is run by the Public Works department.....Mayors cut ribbons and make big mistakes....

Let me see if I understand this correctly.  Bates made public documents .....  public.  Oh, the shame.

My Gawd, you are crazier than I thought. And noticably absent from this ramble is any type of defense for publishing court documents related to someones divorce proceedings when there is no indication of illegality or ethical misconduct contained therein and referring to an individuals or group of individuals private wealth as though it bears the mark of Cain.

Believe you to be the one suffering from disconnect.

There was no claim of illegality or ethical misconduct by Bates or the posting, which was not the purpose of the posting at all. It was to provide indication of Bartlett's [lack of] business acumen, a direct confrontation to Bartlett's own claims.

Seems clear you've an agenda here other than the truth.

Around here they need to try harder.  They make Nader look right.  There isn't a dime's worth of difference . . .

DCT, you seem to have a problem others are not echoing.  Bartlett made claims to be a fiscal conservative, such a great manager, creates jobs, etc.  I'm glad Michael dug up the info and published it.  I think it's important for us to know if a candidate is in step with his claims or a total fraud.

I don't think it's out of bounds to shine the light on a candidate especially as it relates to what he/she claims about his/her business accumen.  It was a sobering point to see this "fiscal conservative" can't live within his own means.  One of the biggest gripes about the Taylor administration I have heard has been that "we have not lived within our means as a city".  Does the citizenry want another four years of that?

Avoiding a debate with Mudschlock and noticeably leaving important issues off his website and not even addressing the most important issues facing the city makes Bartlett's candidacy a total empty-suit joke.

I answered your charges, if you'd bothered to read my reply.

I think one of our trollish old friends has created a new sock puppet for himself. Don't you have a site redesign to finish up?

DCtransplant...if by your statement you mean that every other Republican (or Democrat for that matter) should whistfully sit idly by and do nothing, ask not one question, perform no research on their prospective candidate choices...then I guess Michael Bates could be an embarrassment to the likes of you.

What Bates does offer (and you have a choice whether to read it or not, believe it or not or take it and research for yourself for its validity) is a thorough, in-depth analyisis from a myriad of sources as well as offering the time to do it, which it would seem, most dont bother to do...they merely go vote for the choice with the 'prettiest signs' or the most TV time.  Shame.

In hindsight, as small minded as your comment seemed to be...perhaps you are the one that is the embarrassment if that is the quality of voter you believe all should be.  That or you couldnt understand the relationship Bates was drawing to claims made by Bartlett and his public record that was in conflict with that.

I think publishing a long ago divorce document was in poor taste. It is yet another reason why more good people don't run for office.

I respect Michael Bates for his research and continual fight for community issues. I  read his blog on a regular basis and he has educated me on many issues.

But around elections (especially when his friend Chris Medlock is running) he seems to blur good judgement with a want to attack political opponents. I understand this problem because it happens to me as well.

I do think the strategy has backfired and he has hurt republicans in general elections with his actions. As a democrat, I am OK with it.

I'll have to disagree with Recycle on this one again.  If all we had to go by were the fliers and televisions spots publiched by candidates, then they would all be perfect saints, fine family leaders, well educated, etc etc...it takes some digging to get to the truth.  I don't find what Bates did to be in bad taste at all...it is usually the people like Bates that cause us to 'hmmmmm' and not rush to judgement. 

Bates merely pointed out the fact that the divorce proceedings contained statements by the candidate'e own counsel that were in contradiction to public statements made that supported his positions, experience and his very candidacy, nothing more and nothing less.  At the very least, it caused me to stop and consider all my choices, taking in the most information I could find.  If such a statement by Bates had not been backed up in the documents he referred to, I would not have given them as much, if any, weight at all. 

Looking back in it, it caused me to look at it two ways: 1) Dewey Jr. is really not the success he portrays himself to be or 2) Dewey Jr. had his lawyer take a stated position that was misleading to reconcile a more favorable divorce outcome...neither of which made me comfortable in selecting him as my candidate. 

Simply truth, if you don't like what Bates has to offer, don't read it.

Spoken with a hidden name...

Would you want your divorce posted on someone else's website? How about your family's business dealings (lawsuits, liens, etc.)?

Tell me what political wisdom we can glean from Michael's comments on the divorce...again these are Michael's comments, not court records.

"In this case, Husband and Wife lived together in the home for nearly fifteen years. They lived there together for five years after conveying the home to Wife's revocable trust. And, both began the divorce proceedings claiming the home was marital. Necessarily, however, transferring marital property to Wife's trust could not convert what was marital property into Husband's separate property." 

Tell me what that has to do with his running for Mayor.

or this one...

As a point of comparison, between December 1994 and December 2000, the S&P 500 nearly tripled in value, but the Bartlett family's net worth declined slightly from $4,551,825 to $4,506,100, according to the spreadsheet mentioned above.

This was not pertinent information as to the qualifications of the candidate. It was an excuse to attack the opponent as rich, but not richer from his business.

Michael, that quote is from the appeals court decision, and is clearly identified as such in the blog entry. It is NOT my commentary. Here is exactly what I wrote (with my words highlighted) (http://"http://www.batesline.com/archives/2009/09/dewey-bartlett-jr-divorce-successful-businessman.html"):


The quote is at the heart of the court's decision. Bartlett Jr argued that the house was his separate property because he paid for it from his inheritance. The Court of Civil Appeals said he lived with his wife in it for 15 years, owned it jointly, and then put it in her trust -- that makes it either marital property or her separate property, but definitely not his separate property.

I guess your party's "soldiers" went AWOL on this one.

My bad...but I again question what nugget of knowledge we are supposed to gain about the candidate's qualifications to be Mayor from this quote. This was personal family financial information during a divorce that you felt compelled to blog about. Why?

I think he's explained it very clearly, why do you continue this circular argument?  This is no different than Martinson's crew using court docs to try and disparage Chris Trail.  Personal accountability is relevant when it comes to public office, it's an indicator of that person's leadership ability.

Dewey Bartlett's commercials characterize him as a successful businessman who has "created jobs" and "cut costs".

I think it's highly relevant to reveal that someone who promises to "watch every penny" doesn't seem to be able to live within their means. 

Please don't act like you've never supported a candidate who has used Jim Burdge tactics, RM.

A more relevant question for Michael Bates at this point is who are you supporting in the general election now that you've ripped up the prevailing GOP candidate?  Not that I disagree with said ripping. 

Bates: THE embarrassment of the Repugnant Party?  What goes 'round, comes round.  http://www.batesline.com/archives/2006/03/our-options-for.html

Dontcha love it when the shoe's on the other foot?

Bates' only motivation for being is simply to drink his own purple kool-aid, while thinking he's smarter than everyone, when everyone remembers his defeat at the hands of his own REPUGNANT Party.

I reckon he'll do a LaFortune -- rip into said GOP candidate for months, then turn around and endorse him.

Okay Paul, that's quite enough.  Go play in another sand box if you can't make points without racial and religious slurs. Good bye.

A new memorialized post from a local hater....what Okies are known for best, stupidity.

Unchecked by TNF moderhaters.

Yep.  Hate and Stupidity: the stuff that makes the GREAT American Democracy go 'round.  Git used to it, or leave and don't let the damn door hit ya where da sun don't shine.

 I'm just glad that medical records are not public, otherwise someone would be figuring out a Colonoscopy based voting guide...

'Relevant' divorce proceedings are not the most dire information candidates running for office have ever had to contend with and likely wont be the last of it.  In every campaign, someone is more thorough than most and finds the telling details (thanks Michael Bates). 

Recycle...you seem to forget that a candidate launching into public office has to be ready for the sniping, sometimes mean spirited things that get hurled their way.  Your dear Mayor Taylor made light of it in here State of the City speech yesterday in fact.  If you don't have a tough enough hide, you should not be in public office...or running for it.  Candidate's open themsleves to greater public scrutiny than the average citizen, its a cost bourne of running and something they all have to deal with.  Its sometimes not even about you but maybe a family member.  You, yourself, are open to more public scrutiny than most given your public position...that's because you have chosen a position that demands accountablity in the eyes of the taxpayer...not just one boss.  It's unfortunate, but part of the process.

Medlock took his fair share of criticisms with his MBA degree status, Paul Tay on his run ins with police and antics on the bike, A. Burns for being...well, A. Burns.  Everyone has something.  Dewey's is more public given his past social standing and available knoweldge out there in the public domain.

And I'm willing to guess that given Michael Bate's stand on Dewey Bartlett and Dewey's character that has been called into question by his own accounts in the past...he will still not endorse such an individual for Mayor.  Doesn't mean he will or must endsorse anyone, but he could.  There comes a point in politics that just because its the only choice for the party, doesnt mean its the right choice for the party and requires your vote. 

Unfortunately, I think the Adelson v. Bartlett Jr. fight card was already booked by the show masters.  Adelson will come out the victor in a 'smackdown' style event that not even a Vince McMahon could concieve and promote.  There is a reason certain contributors backed both campaigns and now that any Republican contenders that didnt cater to that crowd is gone, Adelson will be left standing and Dewey left in the cold.  That's how I see it, could be wrong, but it will sure be interesting to watch.  I'm waiting Dewey to accept Tom's debate challenge from last night since he never got around to accepting one from Medlock.

And to those that dont think Medlock put up a good fight...remember, he won about 1/3 of his party's votes, behind Bartlett's 1/2 with Falling taking in a distant 1/10 and the rest split.  Id call that a challenger my friends.

RM:  his article makes it clear why he posted things about the finances.  Bartlet is/was running as a business man.  He can successfully run a business he can successfully run Tulsa.  It's a large part of his platform.

Bates research casts a doubt on that angle.

If we didn't have people like Bates willing to stick their neck out and invest time doing research, everyone would be perfect as far as the public is concerned.  Did he find a smoking gun?  Nope.  Many people probably didn't see the relevance in the financial information or really care . . . but that doesn't mean his past shouldn't be brought up.  Let the voters decide if it is relevant or not.  So long as it is accurate, bring it out in the open.

Additionally, those documents are all a matter of public record.  You can go down and get a copy for $.25 a page (or whatever it is now).  All he did was make it easier for the public to access those documents.  So yeah, you can accuse of him of digging deep into people he doesn't like - but so what?  I'd be happy if every candidate had a person that doesn't like them digging for dirt.   

Sorry, but I don't trust candidates to come clean on their own.  Getting elected is the name of the game.  Half truths, forgetting some things in the past, and pandering to certain groups is the way that gets done. The more truth that gets thrown in every now and then, the better.  I'm sure it keeps some good people from running and getting elected, but it also keeps a bunch of creeps away.

Really? A challenger?

He had the most motivated base of any candidate because he played to the angry, the disaffected and the scared. He had the right wing Tulsa blogosphere and KFAQ propping him up and blowing apart his rather weak opponent and he still could only pull 1/3 of the Republican Party vote.

Medlock’s appeal to Democrats and independents is just about zero. In a general election he would have gotten under 20% of the vote. Even less against a competent challenger. He has zero chance of ever winning any large base general election. He knows it, and even worse for him the people that fund campaigns know it.

This just goes to prove that the loud angry mob that posts on the Tulsa World site and listens to KFAQ is a pretty small minority.

Swake, what Im drawing reference to is they dont appear to be a small minority when they come in second taking 1/3 of the votes cast. 

Look at the opposite side, Adelson took 95% of the vote with the rest divided up among the other challengers.  If Medlock didnt have support whether it be the angry mob or not, he would have walked away with 1/3 of his party's vote. 

That still means that roughly 7500 of the 50,000 or 15% of the voting populace resonated at some level with his platform.  That means there is a 15% block out there that could be persuaded one way or the other if the issues and concerns are legitimate.  15% of the voting block is a good solid number...32% of your party's is a very good number.  It isnt simply 'nothing' is all I'm saying.

Twice as many people voted against him as for him this time. How many elections in a row has he lost now?

This ain't horseshoes.

the vote count difference between Bartlett and Medlock was over 5000 votes.  Considering how many voted, thats a lot to me.   Oh, and the vote count for was 7004, not nearly 7500.   

It was nice seeing TA say he supports accepting federal stimulus funds for police....where's Screwy Dewey Republicans on this issue? Bates?

Dear Nitwit,

What a pathetic first post.

You imply that you have been serving the Republican Party in DC.  If your very first post on this forum is indicative of the way Republican operatives work in DC, I now have a clearer idea why my national party has displayed a shocking lack of competence and moral compass over the last several years.

Your post is childish.  I am not even going to take the time to school you in your many errors.  I'll bet it would not do any good anyway. 

I suggest you actually take a few days to read Michael Bates' blog and his articles in Urban Tulsa to see where he is coming from.  I don't expect you to do that, of course.  I think you are simply going to attack, attack, attack.  If so, I'll just file your rantings under "Posts by Useful Idiots supporting Democrats and the Midtown Money Belt".

Yeah big city....you go dig up all that non sense. Then get back to us....

(http://www.cw58.tv/downloads/images/smackdown_1024x768.jpg)

So sgrizzle shouldn't run again then  ???

Everyone loses the first time. Most people give up after the third or fourth. If I was Medlock I would run for a different post, like State Rep, to try to disassociate himself from his perceived public persona of a raging republican and distance himself from the MBA and e-mail debacles.  No amount of repeatedly running for the same office will sway those opposed to him.

This image in the TulsaWorld doesnt help either.

(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2009/20090831_medewey0831.jpg)
MEDLOCK SMASH!

I'm not trying to be a smart-donkey, but that's pretty much how he has looked every time I've seen him.

Medlock ran for State Rep. a few years ago; right after he lost the last race for mayor.  He lost to Fred Jordan by large number in that race to.

He should move to a more apathetic area then.

My hood is cranky and don't trust gubmint. He could be the Godfather of East Tulsa.