The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

I had the misfortune of seeing Anna Falling's press conference at the Tulsa Zoo yesterday, and I am terrified.  I've never before seen a legitimate candidate for public office make a campaign promise to do all they can to mix Church and State.  Her goal is apparently to make this a Christian City in every way possible.  The answer to gangs?  Christian missionaries.  Find, good great, whatever.  But unfortunately the Zoo needs more Jesus too.

As I walked out of the Zoo a group of ~35 people held signs read (not quotes, I didn't write them down and didn't take pictures, just from memory):

• "Evolution is a religion NOT science."
• "Jesus is our scientist."
• "Equal representation for the true origin of life."
• "Darwin is not Christ."

The answer to educational problems in Oklahoma - well you've guessed it . . . more religion.  What we need to do is teach young people that a bronze age manuscript is a scientific instrument FROM GOD.  All the evidence in the fossil record, from conducted studies, and from observation is simply God teasing testing our faith.  In fact, any evidence contrary to anything in the bible was intentionally put there.  Thus, it's flawless.

They had a mock exhibit in place.  Basically showing several animals and explaining that their God made them the way they are.  It didn't explain that these animals are lesser life forms because previous life's were not lived according to the Hindu teachings.  Nor advance any other world view but for the fact that Jesus and his predecessors religious teachings are science.

 I understand they are pissed that a giant cartoon like Elephant has a plaque that says "[some cultures revere the Elephant and even worship it as a god]."  (not actual quotes).  But when I go to the Montezuma's Castle National Park and there are ancient Indian stories of their Gods I don't really think they are expressing them as a religious tenant but as historical and cultural information.  When I go to the Gilcrease and see ancient historic artifacts they aren't there to promote that religion.   When I attend plains Indian cultural activities and the importance and reverence of the Buffalo is explained.  When the Tulsa Zoo has an elephant exhibit that includes information about how other cultures view the elephants as revered creatures or even God's, I don't think they are trying to convert anyone.

The express intention of putting a creationist exhibit in the Zoo (or teaching it int he classroom) is to espouse religious tenants.  You may as well teach that the Earth was formed in a bet between the Greek Gods or any number of competing religious teachings on where the Earth came from.  Yes, the Christian version is the most popular version in the United States - but that doesn't make it any more correct as a scientific fact than any other religious teaching.

How about this: next to the snake exhibit lets put in a statue of the Tree of Life with the serpent on a branch (could be a really cool statue actually).  A plaque can explain that in many ancient cultures serpents, aka snakes, were seen as a personification of evil.   Greeks, Hindu's, Zorrostrians, Babylonians, Sumerians and yes the Jews . . . many cultures have a story about a snake and a forbidden object.  To appease Falling we could ignore the fact that previous and subsequent cultures had similar stories and just proclaim the greatness of her GOD on the plaque and go on to explain that "although they were once seen as evil, today scientists understand that snakes play an important roll in many ecosystems."

Or is that too scientific?  Meanwhile, lets label the bats as birds.  Lets find some rabbits that have multi chambered stomachs and chew their cud, maybe a diorama of a dinosaur on a big boat with giraffes and people, and lets destroy all the plants at the zoo that have seeds smaller than mustard seeds.  That way, while the rest of the world happily moves on in reality, we can make Biblical Science a reality at the Tulsa Zoo.


Today I am announcing that Creationism is a religious tenant taken directly from a Bronze Age text.  The Zoo is a place of learning that attempts to both satisfy curiosity about the natural world and instill some knowledge into all of those that would come.  While the Bible has many fine moral and life lessons in it, portraying it as a scientific text in anyway is wholly inappropriate.  

I'm a proud supporter of my Zoo and am glad it teaches science.  Mrs. Falling is a proud supporter of her church and is proud it teaches religion.   Let's not mix the two.

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=10888260





Side note:  The people making fun of Tulsa (again) on the internet are at least pretty funny:
http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=4569354

Well said.

However, this sign jumped out at me:


Isn't that a complete turnaround from what the creationists have been insisting for years, in trying to get creationism taught in schools?

Or did a pro-science protester show up at the press conference?

I can't tell if they missed an "R" or an "S"

Yes, I too am a supporter of "Schistianity", or the worship of rocks.

Don't worry Cannon, she hasn't got a chance so long as the rational voters are out there.

This was the same candidate who was running as "one man, one woman" in her County Commish campaign.  Smaligo won that one.

Not being a registered Repiglican, FOTD can't support Fallingdown in the primary.

This is why we do not need to distinguish between parties in city elections.

The goons and goofs will not rise to the top in a general primary without party affiliation.

I'll vote against her for you.  Count on it.

You missed my point. Vote for her!
Dewey will still take money from her peeps.....or creeps....whatever.

Not your point I was trying to get.  That lunatic does not need to be in public office.  I don't want her anywhere close to getting enough votes to get the primary much less the election.

Medlock is the lesser of the two and I can't imagine that pud getting in there either.

Excellent Post

*stands up and claps*

I would've put money on Medlock being the candidate with the wacky ideas.

This is why I don't gamble..

You want Screwy? He'd have us be Peckerville, not that we aren't already.

At least Fallingdown would be an authentic representation of who we really are....

Bunch of misfits running in the Republican primary.

You definetely don't need someone that is going backwards as the Mayor of this town....Then to add whack job to it leaves her way on the outside looking in.....

Ms. Anna Falling has been out of politics for some years, and I consider her a real long-shot to be elected Mayor. 
Nonetheless, I was a bit surprised that she would jump back into the fray after running her seemingly successful non-profit organization, with her husband's help, for some years.

Then, I had my very own epiphany.

Of course!
 
She's a political catspaw, to claw away and split the solid Conservative Christian Voter Base from the Chris Medlock voter base, allowing RINO Dewey, Jr. a win in the Winner-Take-All GOP Primary.

It's too bad we won't be able to see after the election if her Non-Profit organization is somehow mysteriously rewarded by a generous donation from a certain VERY large Charity headquartered in Tulsa...........that's ONE donation that we'll never hear about publically.  Bet on it!

We will get to see, however, when the Campaign Contributions and Expenditures report is finally filed, just who her OVERT financial backers are....

Any guesses?

Bank of Kaiser Kronies and King Kaiser, along with Lady McBeth herself Ruth Kaiser-Nelson, anyone?
 
 :D

Not to contribute to any FB conspiracy theories, but the books of many 501c3's are open to inspection.  So if you wanted to verify you could check her campaign filing and her 501c3.  HOWEVER, I will say she sounded genuine in her speech.  She had some gusto behind her campaign promises.

Hello... long time lurker, first time poster yada yada yada....

Just wanted to mention that this is the most active story on Fark today with nearly 400 comments.   

http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=4569354&cpp=1

California Nester? Better watch out on these boards...the posters don't like your type...but great link! Thanx!

Maybe a TNF poster or two will see how goofy we all look to others because of our politicians....

Yeah, I've been following the Fark post throughout the day, trying to dispell certain fallacies about Tulsa when I can. I'd encourage others to do the same if you notice any outright lies (such as the headline being about her winning).

Housekeeping in "the SomethingAwful Forums' annoying little brother"?  Quixotic at best, but God bless you for trying!

Ha!  I now know your Fark ID.  I thought to myself "thank God someone pointed that out." 

You mean that you know more than one Robert in Tulsa?  :P

CF:  From the very earliest of those entombed in the great pyramids the journey across the heavens to secure the promise of extension of this organism which host the soul has been a constant search for the solution to whether there exist a hereafter.    The Bible is an history of the gathering of the sheep herders of the Jewish species into a nation encouraged by the books of Moses.  As you are aware in the books of acts of Jesus he said he was a Jew.   Seems he also told the woman that he was the Messiah but the tribes of David rebuked him.

Evolution is the most simple explanation in lieu of all religion because life seems to be of a single design which its changes are noted in the rungs distorted in the genetic spiral and recorded in the DNA of all species.   The human mind cannot comprehend what exist beyond the last solar system of the estimated three trillion solar systems like ours.  Such an event is not covered either by creation nor evolution as the mass involved exceeds the capability of reasoning of the human mind.   We have invested billions of dollars in a telescope that cannot define the other limits.  Then we are also affixed to this planet, who major surface is covered with water that is the needed factor for the life form of the host for the soul.  We have been unable to find any solar system outside our own with such mass of water.

The introducing into the political elections, religion should be a cosponsored evaluation to evolution as Darwin’s theories are not without sustain proof gathered from many areas on this mystery planet with many life forms whereas the theories of Darwin have more sustained proof than the books of Moses.   

   

let me guess, I bet she wants the exhibit right next to the chimpanzee exhibit.
Irony huh?

Friendly Bear is wrong. If anything, she takes traditional republican votes away from Bartlett and helps Medlock win with his disgruntled percentage.

Secondly, the Tulsa Zoo is an award winner for it's breeding programs. What's next, an abstinence campaign?

RecycleMichael is wrong.

Both Anna Falling and Chris Medlock have a strong core of support among the Christian Evangelical/Conservative Christian base.  That base could, based on straight "party" voting of their huge local numbers, if that base wanted, win every elected office in Tulsa. 

Permanently.

Surprisingly, that has not yet happened.

Wonder why? 

Although Falling hails from Midtown, she's not the long-haired, ex-hippy secular liberal draft-dodging RINO personified by Dewey, Jr.

Oh, his campaign hirelings told him to get a "conservative" haircut for the next few weeks?

Sorry; my mistake.  He is now trying to appear to be a "conservative" because he has had a conservative haircut for a month. 

Sans ponytail, temporarily.

^ As usual, everything's a conspiracy.  ::)

Friendly Bear...

We know you only post when Medlock is in the news. Your attempt to help him by using this forum to write baseless attacks on any opponent of his is feeble and transparent.

Your anonymous and wrong postings help ruin this forum of any substantial conversation about the people running for office.

I certainly hope that the moderators come back to their senses and ban you again before you are successful in destroying every political conversation.
 

You know I have much love 4 u, but what is with your obsession with banning and who has been banned and who deserves to be banned?  What did FB say that was so offensive?  He clearly has the skinny on Bartlett - a refrain I have heard before.  Thought you would be happy to have another weakened Republifraud in the race.

All this name-calling, off-topic conversation, what is wrong with you people?

FB has been banned before about a year ago. I believe (but can't fully remember) it was due to anti-semitic remarks against George Kaiser.

Anti-semitic?  Why are Jews given special treatment?  We have a cop on this board using anti-woman language (calling a senator a 'b*tcch'), insults based on anti-womyn sentiment (dude, 'c*ntry) and no one even objects.  Discriminatory, inflammatory language used to deride people with disabilities is common.  So what makes what FB said IN THIS THREAD so bad?

In terms of Falling I am getting like so on her bandwagon and am going to support her 150%.  Money.  Signs.  The works.  Anything to help.  I hope she beats Medlock in votes but sure looks like ol' Blue Blood will get the GOP primary.

You've got me. I'm not an admin/mod and I've pretty much learned to tune out inflammatory posters. I'm sure I'm missing valid discussion, but previous posts that add nothing to the discussion but hate caused me to ignore most of what certain posters say.


Out of curiosity... why?

I agree with FB.  Falling dilutes the Mudschlock vote.  I think only the most devoted of fundies will vote for Falling because she would be seen as being even to the right of CM. 

CLEARLY you have not been paying attention.  Inflammatory? Folk gotta take benadryl after my posts, apparently!

I offered support to both Bartlett and Medlock but they do not want my help.  Medlock is all about Chris and his position with the GOP, whereas Anna has a track record of actually doing something and is not a self-absorbed wonk.  Bartlett will be a cold blanket on the conservatives in the GOP.

KnowNothing and Conan71:

Thank you for defending my commentary on the local political scene.  I considered my remarks regarding Falling fair.

I really appreciate it, too, after being made to feel Sooooooo unloved by RecycleMichael's polemic.

I think when he sees one of my postings, he reaches immediately for a Nitroglycerine tablet just before the blood starts shooting out of his eyes.

RecycleMichael:  Live Long and Recycle.

 :-*

I didn't realize that I had said anything about you. Sound like a little bit of narcissism to me.  :P

My point was that if you ignore inflammatory posters what are you doing responding to me?  I have been called everything but a child of G-d here.  My post was supposed to be sardonic and self-effacing.

You asked why I would support her, I think Anna has a decent chance of winning a plurality of votes in the primary.  She is the underdog and that is appealing.  She has a good track record in private and public service and is not just a GOP shill.  I defended Medlock here and other places, even offered money and help with signs and heard nothing back.  Hopefully Anna wants the help or guess my support and vote mean nothing.

If you have all this pent up funding and time to spare, I'll let you give it to me.

You are good for $20.  Where do I send it?  And as long as you do not mind Falling's signs crimping yo style lemme know where to pick em up.  Sorry missed the deal on Tues, just did not want to get my donkey kicked!

Feh, no one would have kicked your donkey.  Hell Paul Tay even showed up in a skirt and no one kicked his donkey.

As long as he doesn't show up with the inflatable junk, I'm sure I could tolerate him.

 ;D

Falling had some very outstanding supporters at the councilors meeting when the powers to be decided she was too interested in the needs of the city that she had installed in her district. 

In this un-democratic charter section of filling an unexpired term of mayor circumvents the democratic process where no one person will receive the majority vote, thus it increases the ability for the powers to select the one to replace the exiting mayor.   

Falling is possibly the nearest candid that would fulfill the “WE THE PEOPLE” clause.   She is only in need of a process to inform the working poor majority that she is one from their ranks.  Blessings on her and by her faith she succeeds.

Yes....blessings....count em. As long as Anna's not prostelityzing from a bully pulpit in city hall, we can count our blessings. As long as she's not further devaluing our image nation wide sitting on the sidelines, count your blessings.

Was that a hallelujah?

I still believe that Anna Falling is more of a threat to Dewey Bartlett's chances to be Mayor than Chris Medlock's. Of course, no one can know for sure because there are usually many factors in deciding whom to support.

These are my theories...

First, in a head to head campaign, Bartlett dramatically outspends Medlock and probably gets most of the barely informed votes. Medlock's supporters seem to be passionate, but money spent usually wins in a head to head. Face it, most voters don't know the differences between two candidates. In a three way (or more) race, sometimes it only takes 35% to win. Chris Medlock got 34% last time and came in second.

Look at this Tulsa World story...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2006/Final/W_030906_A_6.PDF

In this primary race, LaFortune carried the GOP stronghold of midtown and the few republican voters of north Tulsa. That is the same strength of Anna Falling who served as a midtown city councilor and now runs a non-profit that feeds the poor in North Tulsa.

Secondly, the evangelical voter that Anna Falling is going after probably isn't in Chris Medlock's camp. I don't know as many evangelical voters as many of you, but I have heard from my friends that they remember that Medlock was a Unitarian noit long ago. In fact, he taught at threligious education classes at the big Unitarian Church on Peoria.

There is the old story that there were no atheisms in the fox holes in Europe during WW11.  There are no fox holes in this country yet ether.  To attack ones belief in a master creator when there is not one among us that can explain why we are here is judgmental deeply engraved in our own ignorance.  She has dedicated some of her time to “Blessed are the poor’ of which shows her ability to lead not follow.  Seeking to carryout the job of mayor is a further endeavor of her goals.  Let us give her a chance.

She can believe whatever she wants, but that does not give her the right to interject her beliefs into out-of-context situations. Creationism has no place in the realm of science, and especially not at the Tulsa Zoo.

Would you feel the same way if she were some other major religion?

Medlock Mudschlock had the ear of the evangelicals if he retained much of Michael DelWhacko's audience after his departure to Nashvegas.  KFAQ is considered somewhat of a Christian/conservative news station.  Interesting to see what happens.  I think I'll vote for a fringer.  I like the dungeons & dragons guy.  Never fails, keep your GOP registration and you will eventually get to participate in a freak fest.  I thought this might be the year I'd change to unaffiliated or even Dim, glad I've waited for after this election.

His 'conservative' political idealogy predated his conversion over to the PCUSA according to him.  I am not one to question one's path to Glory, but I could see where that could be grounds for a nice Romney-esque comparison.  Hmmmmm that 'big' Unitarian Church.  Hmmmm.  You really do not know the name or are you being funny?

This September 2009 Tulsa municipal primary will see very few voters on the republican side. There are no republican primary races in four ninths of the city and a couple of other races with only an election between a strong ex or incumbent and a lightweight opponent. There isn't a compelling reason for many to go to the polls, especially for a new election (never had one that time of year before) that is also being held the day after a holiday and the week that football starts.

Whomever gets out their base wins.

Is it going to be the evangelical base of Anna Falling, the disgruntled base of Chris Medlock, or the midtown base of Dewey Bartlett?

If Falling and/or Medlock can raise some money, this could be very close.

I think we need a friendly bet on this one.  Nelson's?

1. Are fox holes and other threatening situations the bastion of rational thought?  Personally, I don't think a situation where one is near panicked and in fear for their lives probably breeds the best decisions.  I wouldn't expect a decision I made in any other regard while under extreme pressure to be better than one I made at any other time.

2. To attack one's non-belief in a master creator is equally ignorant.  Which way to you usually see that one fly?  Plus, no one attacked her belief in a master creator.  I attacked her desire to utilize my government to further the belief in her chosen deity.

3. I also have donated time to "blessed are the poor. "  Can I be mayor now?

4) And finally, please answer the questioned asked above.  If she was devotedly Muslim, or Hindu, or even Wikkan would you find her faith appealing?  Or is it merely that she wishes to advance the cause of your God that you find a good thing?  Most people think religion is good, so long as it is there own.

The use of the foxhole was used to illustrate that through our ignorance of our existence we rely on our own fears as the solution of the unknown.  To degrade a person because of their belief is asinine .  Because of this cloak of secrecy we are using it to discredit past and present performances.  The indications that our existence in this unstable atmosphere we have created,  does lead to the assumption that we are incapable of self rule.  Thus we look into the darkness for leadership.  Those who we refer to as savages who worshiped the sun as a god and the provider of all life cannot be challenged.

Among us are no non-believers.  Only those who seek the evidence as to whom or what was the creator of life as it exist on a very isolated planet in one of many solar systems.

If you had the leadership which Hitler possessed and contributed to the blessings of the working poor you would have no problem being mayor.

Falling’s religion should never have been introduced as to qualifications for mayor any more than that of President Kennedy’s 
     
     

She's the one who introduced it. And it's all she talks about. So it's fair game and very relevant.

True she did introduce it as an explanation in correcting our decaying morality in this divided city.   

In France there is a pylon on which are scribe the ancient laws of  Babylon.  The 10 commandments are the laws of the Israelites as presented by Moses.  I have a very low leaning toward Christianity and its displaying of the cross which was the most brutal devise for executing ever contrived by the Romans.  They lined the roads to the city with the crosses with victims nailed on them to warn the travelers not to break the laws of Rome.  The constitution can be construed as no more than a religion as it becomes under scrutiny daily.  So give unto the Jew his laws that belongs to the Jew.       

1) Are you implying that reliance on fear as a solution is a good thing?  In that case, before you make any critical life decisions you should walk up and kick a bull in the crotch, jump off a bridge, or some other wildly dangerous activity.   

"Why did you jump from that moving car?"

 "Oh that, I was trying to decide if I should refinance my house."   

2) Godwin?

3) Falling's religion is her platform.  Kennedy kept insisting that he would not be a papal servant in the White House and that his religion was not his platform.  Falling keeps insisting that she will be a servant of Jesus in City Hall and that her platform is Jesus.  See the difference there?  I know it's subtle, but it's there.

Her religion doesn't matter so long as it isn't her platform.  Same with race, origin, sex, etc.  But when a candidate makes these traits part of their platform, it becomes relevant.    She introduced it as everything, period.  Hence, it's relevant:  but if you want to, we can pretend she only introduced it in regards to teaching the Christian creation myth at the zoo.  Which is bad enough for me.

4) I can't really comment on the constitution as a religion, since it fails the definition in every way.

5) And I'm not sure what Jew law you are talking about.  The constitution?  The Commandments?  Let me know what I should give ye' ole' Jews and I'll be right on it.  I guess.

You know groovie crusher, the jew law is an eye for an eye.

COT is in deep. Next mayor better have smarts and not be the type that is too concerned with
anything but fixing the city. The devil tells me the city is all screwed up and the books are cooked.
Hearsay, but credible non the less.

So. When you support a candidate this election, make certain you understand the mess that will be handed down.

If you liked LaFortune, vote Bartlett.  :P

CF quoted;
(4) I can't really comment on the constitution as a religion,
since it fails the definition in every way.
===============================================================

Would the words such as “Thou shall”
Or ‘Thou shall not” in preempting the commandments, the constitution, or the city charter be any more that a religion relative to what is being reported each day?  Is the morality of the species to be considered a figment of the society’s imagination?  Is the words of one of the worlds great teachers, that she is trying to pass on, offensive when it is used as a promise to point out the inequities that effect the whole city?  I for one think not.   

Go Shadows Go!

Of all the things to describe you, "credible" is not one of them.

Wait and we will see....

That's your opinion taking an FOTD comment out of context and off another thread. Late night drinking games?

At least she's not this guy

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54THlQKD5e0[/youtube]

Might as well be.

That's got to be a Dan Aykroyd skit.  Sounds just like him when Dan is putting on the Chicago dialect.

"We're on a mission from Gahd".

I actually kinda like how his voice goes all mechanical at times, very cool.

Also, his grasp of the issues facing his city seems more grounded than Anna’s, murder and litter are far more substantial issues than secular humanist zoo exhibits and her “adopt a cop” program. I think his platform, while bat sh!t crazy, is actually more relevant than hers.

Yeah, but he looks just like one of those creepy church elder types that dismembers little kids and deposits them under the floorboards of his house.  Total creeper here.

Ah good, I wasn't the onoly one to think that

You have no proof that he’s hacked children into little pieces and buried them under his house, just like I have no proof that Anna Falling is going to get you and that little dog too.

No way, Conan's little dog would use his bug-eyed Kung Fu on her crazy tucus.

The little dog's bug-eyed kung fu is strong, but not as strong as her bug-eyed kung fu

(http://krmg.com/images/2009/07/anna-falling_m.jpg)[

There's some bug-eye crazy there, but Butch is up to it

My GF says that she votes for Butch

What does he have against definite article? Is some sort "Knights who say Ni!" thing?

I always found it interesting in high school to listen to recordings in Old English. You could discover why some words were spelled the way they were. The word "Knight" was pronounced   "K nick t", empasis on the K sound and the t sounding like tu as in tuff. Originally the K sound was not silent. There was no K in the word actually, but when the word was written down in later years, they added the K to reflect how it was pronounced. Then in later years still, the sounds changed and the K became silent.  "The Green Knight" sounded something like "T H (the H wasnt silent either) Grin   K nick t ).  If I recall correctly, its been a while since high school lol.

Sorry for the thread jack.  Just an interesting tidbit for us nerds lol.

 

So the French knight was correct (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs"): "I blow my nose at you, so-called 'Arthur King,' you and all your silly English K-nickets."

Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time