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Talk About Tulsa => Other Tulsa Discussion => Topic started by: Fatstrat on January 27, 2009, 09:21:22 pm



Title: New highway dividers.
Post by: Fatstrat on January 27, 2009, 09:21:22 pm
I'll bet after the ice storm that Tulsa has a lot more of these to replace. That on top of the near constant replacing of sections destroyed during better weather.
 Does it seem to anyone else that including materials and labor, these might not have the best idea. Say over using concrete that wouldn't need constant replacement?


Title: New highway dividers.
Post by: Breadburner on January 27, 2009, 09:29:20 pm
They are awful...And a maintenance night-mare....Especially when you put them on one side of te road instead of the median where it belongs....Not to mention the fact anyone that gets into it on a motorcycle is hamburger...


Title: New highway dividers.
Post by: Conan71 on January 27, 2009, 10:23:46 pm
Looking at costs, they could have dropped in even temporary concrete barriers and they'd be better off safety-wise.  You'd scrub off crash energy, and yeah, might look like disorganized dominoes when you are done, but at least the driver might survive.  The cable/pier system reminds me of Ginsu knives.  As a motorcyclist, they look like a ****ing cabbage cutter to me.


Title: New highway dividers.
Post by: dsjeffries on January 27, 2009, 11:06:53 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

As a motorcyclist, they look like a ****ing cabbage cutter to me.



+1 on the danger to motorcyclists. I'm so outraged at the way ODOT does things that I often run out of words.  Do they ever consider that it's not just cars and trucks on our highways and that their decision to use something that needs perpetual repair is going to eventually kill a motorcyclist or person who is ejected from their vehicle??

It reminds me of a discussion we had on here about the City of Tulsa using brick pavers on sidewalks instead of concrete. Imagine what riding in a wheelchair would be like on those things.. When designing something to be used by many groups of people, one needs to consider all of those groups, not just one.


Title: New highway dividers.
Post by: patric on January 27, 2009, 11:23:59 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Looking at costs, they could have dropped in even temporary concrete barriers and they'd be better off safety-wise.  You'd scrub off crash energy, and yeah, might look like disorganized dominoes when you are done, but at least the driver might survive.  The cable/pier system reminds me of Ginsu knives.  As a motorcyclist, they look like a ****ing cabbage cutter to me.



They only considered upfront cost when picking them over Jersey Barriers.
Repairing wire barriers over and over again will cost more in the long run, but at least were creating jobs for some low bidder.


Title: New highway dividers.
Post by: nathanm on January 28, 2009, 01:00:03 am
quote:
Originally posted by patric

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Looking at costs, they could have dropped in even temporary concrete barriers and they'd be better off safety-wise.  You'd scrub off crash energy, and yeah, might look like disorganized dominoes when you are done, but at least the driver might survive.  The cable/pier system reminds me of Ginsu knives.  As a motorcyclist, they look like a ****ing cabbage cutter to me.



They only considered upfront cost when picking them over Jersey Barriers.
Repairing wire barriers over and over again will cost more in the long run, but at least were creating jobs for some low bidder.


Cable barriers are excellent for rural highways where they aren't often struck and traffic counts (and thus crash rates) are lower. In the city, not so much.

For a motorcyclist, striking any barrier is likely to result in death, so what's the difference? (I guess the cables "look" more dangerous)


Title: New highway dividers.
Post by: TurismoDreamin on January 28, 2009, 01:08:10 am
Here are two interesting stories regarding cable barriers:



http://www.nzherald.co.nz/road-accidents/news/article.cfm?c_id=663&objectid=10471320


The date of this article is today:
http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=165183&bolum=100


Title: New highway dividers.
Post by: sgrizzle on January 28, 2009, 07:12:02 am
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Looking at costs, they could have dropped in even temporary concrete barriers and they'd be better off safety-wise.  You'd scrub off crash energy, and yeah, might look like disorganized dominoes when you are done, but at least the driver might survive.  The cable/pier system reminds me of Ginsu knives.  As a motorcyclist, they look like a ****ing cabbage cutter to me.




Cable barriers are safer for 99% of the vehicles on the road because they absorb/diffuse impact. For the motorcyclists, it's a toss up between these and a slab of concrete.


Title: New highway dividers.
Post by: TurismoDreamin on January 28, 2009, 01:31:40 pm
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Looking at costs, they could have dropped in even temporary concrete barriers and they'd be better off safety-wise.  You'd scrub off crash energy, and yeah, might look like disorganized dominoes when you are done, but at least the driver might survive.  The cable/pier system reminds me of Ginsu knives.  As a motorcyclist, they look like a ****ing cabbage cutter to me.




Cable barriers are safer for 99% of the vehicles on the road because they absorb/diffuse impact. For the motorcyclists, it's a toss up between these and a slab of concrete.



I work in the hospital, and I see patients all the time on the orthopedic floor that come in with with motor vehicle accident related injuries. I would say that about 55-60% of them are usually motorcycle drivers. I have known several cases that said they were simply run off the road and slid into a ditch, or in some cases, hit a concrete barrier. They usually suffer a little road rash and a few broken bones and that can be fixed. If you get sliced in half by a cable barrier (refer to my previous post), there's nothing we can do for you there.

Motorcycles are dangerous anyway. There's a reason why the hospital refers to this population as organ donors.


Title: New highway dividers.
Post by: Aa5drvr on January 28, 2009, 08:18:26 pm
Lets give these cable barriers about 18 months.  
My guess is that their need of repair will be on par with the lights on the expressway above them.


Title: New highway dividers.
Post by: Conan71 on January 29, 2009, 10:12:47 am
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm

quote:
Originally posted by patric

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Looking at costs, they could have dropped in even temporary concrete barriers and they'd be better off safety-wise.  You'd scrub off crash energy, and yeah, might look like disorganized dominoes when you are done, but at least the driver might survive.  The cable/pier system reminds me of Ginsu knives.  As a motorcyclist, they look like a ****ing cabbage cutter to me.



They only considered upfront cost when picking them over Jersey Barriers.
Repairing wire barriers over and over again will cost more in the long run, but at least were creating jobs for some low bidder.


Cable barriers are excellent for rural highways where they aren't often struck and traffic counts (and thus crash rates) are lower. In the city, not so much.

For a motorcyclist, striking any barrier is likely to result in death, so what's the difference? (I guess the cables "look" more dangerous)



That's assuming a head-on crash.  A glancing blow and a rider will likely slide off the barrier.  Getting tangled up in cable on a glancing blow is another story...



Title: New highway dividers.
Post by: sauerkraut on January 29, 2009, 11:27:32 am
The cable system is very popular and is catching on all over. Kansas is thinking about installing cable on many roads. The cable system works best on certain roads, if the divider is real wide then cables don't really work good. We have them all over Central Ohio and they say the cables saved tons of lives and stopped many head-on crashes. The I-270 loop that circles the metro area of Columbus Ohio has cable dividers and results are good. I think the bottom line is cable should only be used, (and works best) where the divider is less than 50' wide. If the divider is wider than 50' than cable has no real benefits, the natural  slope of the grass divider works just as well to stop cars. Cable works best on roads with narrow didvider.


Title: New highway dividers.
Post by: Vision 2025 on January 30, 2009, 09:13:14 am
I seem to remember ODOT identifying them as interim (5 year) improvements pending funding for conventional barriers on 75 and 169.  There was media coverage that these come with a $ incentive from the FHWA which is why they are appearing.

I do know that the FHWA is (supposedly) working to develop a better system than the standard Jersey barrier design which is maintenance problematic due to thermal expansion and causes drainage and other issues plus the fact that they are not particularly effective at stopping large truck incursions.


FHWA’s sales pitch - It slices-it dices-it’s not for everyone but hey best of all its cheap in the short term...


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: patric on February 20, 2010, 01:47:07 pm
A concrete "Jersey Barrier" in action:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UReNC4opOA[/youtube]

What might this have been like if there were only wire barriers?


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: custosnox on February 20, 2010, 10:02:11 pm
A concrete "Jersey Barrier" in action:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UReNC4opOA[/youtube]

What might this have been like if there were only wire barriers?
The first think I wanted to know is why are there camera's all over the outside of this bus?


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: patric on May 28, 2010, 04:51:57 pm
Some of the predictions made here seem to be panning out:

ODOT Pulling Up Cable Barriers On Tulsa Highway


It was just two years ago that ODOT spent $600 thousand dollars to install the cables and now they plan to pull them up
"The plan now is to go in and take the cable barriers out of this area, recycle all the materials and put it up on a different project north on Highway 169," said Kenna Mitchell, ODOT Spokesperson.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=12562624


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: BKDotCom on May 29, 2010, 07:19:07 am
Some of the predictions made here seem to be panning out:

They're only being removed along a 2-5 mile section of hw 169 where the road is being widened much sooner than expected.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Hoss on May 29, 2010, 07:28:36 am
They're only being removed along a 2-5 mile section of hw 169 where the road is being widened much sooner than expected.

Yep, I see nothing wrong with that.  At least it's not being wasted.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: sauerkraut on May 29, 2010, 10:30:16 am
That video was something, at least it kept the bus from crossing into on-coming traffic. Kansas started using that cable system and they claim it works good, so now many other states are using it, indeed they are bad for a motorcycle rider no question about that. But they say  it works fine to keep vehicles from going into on-coming traffic and they are less expensive than a cement wall.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: EricP on May 31, 2010, 10:43:58 pm
Actually if that bus had hit a cable barrier, I wonder if it would've had more of an 'arresting' action on the bus and kept it from plowing through so many cars on the same side as it..


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: patric on June 01, 2010, 08:29:33 am
They're only being removed along a 2-5 mile section of hw 169 where the road is being widened much sooner than expected.

Think I read where they were being yanked at the BA at 169, but I also think that might have been some site's comments section and possibly not accurate.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: patric on September 14, 2011, 12:39:35 pm
A little decapitation scare, anyone?

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/15458578_BG2.jpg)

http://www.newson6.com/story/15458578/sand-springs-police-highway-cable-barrier-stops-sleepy-driver


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Conan71 on September 14, 2011, 02:44:20 pm
A little decapitation scare, anyone?

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/15458578_BG2.jpg)

http://www.newson6.com/story/15458578/sand-springs-police-highway-cable-barrier-stops-sleepy-driver

"Police detected a strong smell of fecal matter emanating from the vehicle."


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Townsend on September 14, 2011, 02:50:15 pm
"Police detected a strong smell of fecal matter emanating from the vehicle."

Dude, It would've been all over my windshield.

That and the echo of a girlish scream could be heard throughout our beautiful valley.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: patric on September 12, 2013, 11:42:08 am
Dude, It would've been all over my windshield.
That and the echo of a girlish scream could be heard throughout our beautiful valley.


An Okfuskee County sheriff's deputy has been killed in an auto accident on Interstate 40 near Okemah.

The OHP says the left front tire on 37-year-old David Allford's 2006 Chevy Tahoe blew out, causing the Tahoe to run off the highway and hit a cable barrier, then rolling over two times.

The OHP says Allford was not wearing a seat belt and was ejected. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

The accident was investigated by Trooper Brian Iker, of the Hughes County Detachment. He was assisted by Trooper Scott Aldridge, Trooper Daniel Martin, Trooper Jason Fox, Lt Shane Allen, Trooper Dwight Durant, Trooper Scott Hart, the Okfuskee County Sheriff's office, Okemah Fire Department, Breaden Fire Department and Creek Nation EMS.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Conan71 on September 12, 2013, 04:51:35 pm

An Okfuskee County sheriff's deputy has been killed in an auto accident on Interstate 40 near Okemah.

The OHP says the left front tire on 37-year-old David Allford's 2006 Chevy Tahoe blew out, causing the Tahoe to run off the highway and hit a cable barrier, then rolling over two times.

The OHP says Allford was not wearing a seat belt and was ejected. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

The accident was investigated by Trooper Brian Iker, of the Hughes County Detachment. He was assisted by Trooper Scott Aldridge, Trooper Daniel Martin, Trooper Jason Fox, Lt Shane Allen, Trooper Dwight Durant, Trooper Scott Hart, the Okfuskee County Sheriff's office, Okemah Fire Department, Breaden Fire Department and Creek Nation EMS.



The cable barrier may well have kept his vehicle from killing someone else in a head-on crash.  The barrier ostensibly did not kill him.  Not wearing a seat belt seems to be more of the culprit.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Hoss on September 12, 2013, 05:23:46 pm
The cable barrier may well have kept his vehicle from killing someone else in a head-on crash.  The barrier ostensibly did not kill him.  Not wearing a seat belt seems to be more of the culprit.

I saw this story on one of the big three tonight.  There was some noise about 'bald tires' and 'not enough money to repair a seat belt'.  However that hasn't been confirmed from what I understand.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: BKDotCom on September 12, 2013, 06:14:29 pm
The cable barrier may well have kept his vehicle from killing someone else in a head-on crash.  The barrier ostensibly did not kill him.  Not wearing a seat belt seems to be more of the culprit.

Where did his SUV end up?  It seems unlikely that you'd hit the barrier and roll multiple times without ending up in oncoming lanes.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Conan71 on September 12, 2013, 06:27:27 pm
Where did his SUV end up?  It seems unlikely that you'd hit the barrier and roll multiple times without ending up in oncoming lanes.

I-40's lanes are pretty well-separated from just east of OKC to Henryetta with a few exceptions.  I've not looked at a Google map of the accident site though.  Aside from that, assuming it did end up in on-coming lanes, the barriers as well as the roll-over would have absorbed quite a bit of energy before the vehicle could launch across the median. 


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Conan71 on September 12, 2013, 06:29:18 pm
I saw this story on one of the big three tonight.  There was some noise about 'bald tires' and 'not enough money to repair a seat belt'.  However that hasn't been confirmed from what I understand.

The Okfuskee sheriff says the seat belt was working two weeks ago when he drove the Tahoe.  He also produced a receipt from where three tires were installed on Aug. 30.  Of course that leaves the possibility they didn't replace the left front or perhaps there was a blister on the new tire.  They said fire damage has made it hard to determine the condition prior to the crash.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: patric on August 01, 2014, 10:42:35 pm
TULSA, OK -- Cable barriers, made to prevent accidents, didn’t prevent a head on crash on a busy Tulsa highway Friday morning. The crash critically injured one driver and backed up traffic on Highway 75 for hours.

A woman was driving south and somehow managed to go airborne, then down and over the top of the cable barrier and hit an oncoming truck.

As a result, the state plans to double check the design of the barrier to make sure it's where it should be.

The accident left a minivan crushed in the front and a 30-year-old woman trapped inside seriously injured. A 50-year-old male was also injured.

“It appears she just went over the cables,” said Corporal Jason Muse with Tulsa Police.

Even with higher speeds, the cable barriers usually stop cars from crossing over. In government and industry testing the barriers almost always redirect a car away from the median, but installation guidelines caution that placement is critical.

At the accident scene, the barrier was hardly damaged because the van barely touched it.

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation said it appeared the van went down the top of the cable for 70 feet before going into the northbound lanes.

The four cables stand about 32 inches high, but they're in the low spot of the median, by a road that angles up towards the median.

ODOT stands by their installation, but said they'll double check it because of the accident.

"We do go out and take a close look to see if there's anything that should be changed, and that’s certainly something that we'll do here in this area, but really it's too early to speculate if anything could be changed," said Kenna Carmon with ODOT.

At the same time, the state is installing 22 more miles of cables on North Highway 75, on flatter ground, near the Tulsa and Washington county line.

The state has 600 miles of cable barriers in place, with 100 more miles planned right away. They cost one tenth as much as concrete and almost always work.

“So it has surprised us, certainly, as we’ve started installing cable barrier systems in Tulsa County, just the number of repairs that we’re going out and making,” Carmon said. “It's really eye opening to see just how many people are going into the median area and how many potential cross over accidents have been prevented.”

In fact, ODOT's numbers show in the four-mile stretch of cables have been hit more than 100 times and there wasn't a single crossover until Friday morning.


(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/4373563_G.jpg)



Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Hoss on August 01, 2014, 10:56:43 pm
TULSA, OK -- Cable barriers, made to prevent accidents, didn’t prevent a head on crash on a busy Tulsa highway Friday morning. The crash critically injured one driver and backed up traffic on Highway 75 for hours.

A woman was driving south and somehow managed to go airborne, then down and over the top of the cable barrier and hit an oncoming truck.

As a result, the state plans to double check the design of the barrier to make sure it's where it should be.

The accident left a minivan crushed in the front and a 30-year-old woman trapped inside seriously injured. A 50-year-old male was also injured.

“It appears she just went over the cables,” said Corporal Jason Muse with Tulsa Police.

Even with higher speeds, the cable barriers usually stop cars from crossing over. In government and industry testing the barriers almost always redirect a car away from the median, but installation guidelines caution that placement is critical.

At the accident scene, the barrier was hardly damaged because the van barely touched it.

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation said it appeared the van went down the top of the cable for 70 feet before going into the northbound lanes.

The four cables stand about 32 inches high, but they're in the low spot of the median, by a road that angles up towards the median.

ODOT stands by their installation, but said they'll double check it because of the accident.

"We do go out and take a close look to see if there's anything that should be changed, and that’s certainly something that we'll do here in this area, but really it's too early to speculate if anything could be changed," said Kenna Carmon with ODOT.

At the same time, the state is installing 22 more miles of cables on North Highway 75, on flatter ground, near the Tulsa and Washington county line.

The state has 600 miles of cable barriers in place, with 100 more miles planned right away. They cost one tenth as much as concrete and almost always work.

“So it has surprised us, certainly, as we’ve started installing cable barrier systems in Tulsa County, just the number of repairs that we’re going out and making,” Carmon said. “It's really eye opening to see just how many people are going into the median area and how many potential cross over accidents have been prevented.”

In fact, ODOT's numbers show in the four-mile stretch of cables have been hit more than 100 times and there wasn't a single crossover until Friday morning.


(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/4373563_G.jpg)



Explains the construction I saw today on a trip I made to Caney with cones on the inside lanes near the median.  Saw plenty of the new cable barriers.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 02, 2014, 02:53:35 am
In Phoenix, when they built several highways from 1998 to 2004, they initially installed these cheese graters along the center median, and then later went on to convert most all the highways to Jersey Barriers when they converted them to highways with HOV lanes. Cable barriers are okay, but they don't completely prevent crossover accidents, and sometimes are worse. Cars can go through them, get snagged and cause rollover accidents, and if a motorcyclist hits one, well just think about it. They work most of the time, but there are times that they don't. When you see a Chevy Tahoe hit one and get shot back into traffic as it rolls over, you question the logic, not that it happens often, but it does happen.

Just my $.02.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Conan71 on August 02, 2014, 06:23:42 am
Nothing protects people 100% of the time from their own carelessness and inattentive driving.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: sgrizzle on August 02, 2014, 12:23:29 pm

In fact, ODOT's numbers show in the four-mile stretch of cables have been hit more than 100 times and there wasn't a single crossover until Friday morning.


Over 99% success rate? I think waxing about how bad they are is probably wasted keystrokes.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: patric on August 02, 2014, 12:58:18 pm
Over 99% success rate? I think waxing about how bad they are is probably wasted keystrokes.

They are measuring success by limiting what they measure, so naturally it's an engineered outcome.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: sgrizzle on August 02, 2014, 06:53:25 pm
They are measuring success by limiting what they measure, so naturally it's an engineered outcome.

It's a barrier with the purpose of stopping cars from going through, you measure how many times it got hit and how many cars got through. That's not cooking the books. Would you prefer we measure the fragrant scents it produces?


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 03, 2014, 07:51:23 am
They are measuring success by limiting what they measure, so naturally it's an engineered contrived outcome.


Fixed it for you - it wasn't engineered, it was contrived!  If an engineer came up with the outcome, it would have had real data.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Vision 2025 on August 04, 2014, 09:43:19 am
Having been first car behind a double-fatality, median-crossing head on accident on I-35 in Texas 27 years ago I say put them everywhere!   


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: patric on August 04, 2014, 10:00:46 am
Having been first car behind a double-fatality, median-crossing head on accident on I-35 in Texas 27 years ago I say put them everywhere!   

If you had the choice, would you prefer a concrete Jersey Barrier that deflects the energy of a crashing vehicle, or cables that abruptly snag that force?
When the ultimate goal is to save lives (not just those in opposing traffic), which device is more likely to accomplish that?


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Conan71 on August 04, 2014, 10:54:47 am
If you had the choice, would you prefer a concrete Jersey Barrier that deflects the energy of a crashing vehicle, or cables that abruptly snag that force?
When the ultimate goal is to save lives (not just those in opposing traffic), which device is more likely to accomplish that?

The cables will dissipate more energy with a more direct shot than a Jersey barrier will.  Jersey barriers can also flip vehicles with a glancing shot.

Best idea is put your phone down and drive so you don’t need to worry about the barriers.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 04, 2014, 11:49:24 am
The cables will dissipate more energy with a more direct shot than a Jersey barrier will.  Jersey barriers can also flip vehicles with a glancing shot.

Best idea is put your phone down and drive so you don’t need to worry about the barriers.


I second the motion!   

Why doesn't Oklahoma have a law about that....   oh, yeah...for a moment, I almost forgot....!!



Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: sgrizzle on August 04, 2014, 12:04:20 pm
If you had the choice, would you prefer a concrete Jersey Barrier that deflects the energy of a crashing vehicle, or cables that abruptly snag that force?
When the ultimate goal is to save lives (not just those in opposing traffic), which device is more likely to accomplish that?

You know they're not made of pillows, right?

They "deflect" that energy right back into the person who hits it, resulting in higher fatalities and chance of injury.

Quote
There are three basic categories of median barriers: rigid barrier systems, semi-rigid barrier systems, and flexible barrier systems.

Rigid Barriers: Concrete barriers are the most common type of rigid median barrier in use today. While the initial cost of installation can be relatively high, concrete barriers are known for their relatively low life-cycle cost, effective safety performance, and their relatively maintenance-free characteristics. One drawback is that crashes associated with rigid barriers may result in more severe injuries because, relative to other barrier systems, a rigid system absorbs the least energy in a crash. Nevertheless, concrete barriers have proven to be very effective at mitigating median crossover collisions, especially in locations with high traffic volumes and high speeds. These barrier systems have proven to be highly effective in locations with high traffic volumes and high speeds. Concrete barrier systems are also very effective in places with heavy truck traffic, and in areas where sufficient median widths to accommodate other barrier systems are not available.

Semi-Rigid Barriers: Commonly referred to as guardrail or guiderail, semi-rigid barriers typically consist of connected segments of metal railing supported by posts and blocks. The semi-rigid barrier system is most suitable for use in traversable medians having no or little change in grade and cross slope. In comparison to rigid barriers, semi-rigid barriers can be less costly, but can be more difficult to install in locations with slope and poor soil conditions. Additionally, the need for repair following impact can drive up life-cycle cost. Guardrail systems are designed to absorb energy during a crash, and the entire assembly is designed to move or deflect during an impact.

Cable Barriers: A typical cable barrier consists of multiple steel cables that are connected to a series of posts. These systems are considered the most versatile and forgiving barrier systems available for reducing the severity of median crossover crashes. Cable median barriers minimize the forces on the vehicle and its occupants and absorb most of the energy of a crash. In comparison to rigid and semi-rigid barriers systems, cable barrier systems generally have a lower installation cost. Like guardrails, however, they typically require maintenance after a crash, and therefore can have a higher life cycle cost.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Vision 2025 on August 04, 2014, 12:07:15 pm
If you had the choice, would you prefer a concrete Jersey Barrier that deflects the energy of a crashing vehicle, or cables that abruptly snag that force?
When the ultimate goal is to save lives (not just those in opposing traffic), which device is more likely to accomplish that?
I would rather see the Jersey2 but if the choice is cable or nothing I'll take the cable every time.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: patric on August 04, 2014, 12:10:29 pm
The cables will dissipate more energy with a more direct shot than a Jersey barrier will.  Jersey barriers can also flip vehicles with a glancing shot.

It seems possible, but all of the accidents I have seen involving cables involve glancing impacts and off-center contact.  Ive never seen one hit at a direct right-angle.
A couple of years ago, the Feds started clamping down on concrete barriers built shorter than spec, where vehicles did roll over them.  You likely notice newer ones are much taller.



Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: patric on August 04, 2014, 12:20:06 pm

They "deflect" that energy right back into the person who hits it, resulting in higher fatalities and chance of injury.


If you hit it head on, yes.  Otherwise there is still momentum at an oblique angle, greatly dissipated.  Same angle striking a cable; you are brought to a complete stop immediately, where the G-forces are more likely to be lethal.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: sgrizzle on August 04, 2014, 12:40:07 pm
If you hit it head on, yes.  Otherwise there is still momentum at an oblique angle, greatly dissipated.  Same angle striking a cable; you are brought to a complete stop immediately, where the G-forces are more likely to be lethal.

Not true according to the information I previously posted (which comes from the Feds)


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Breadburner on April 26, 2015, 08:24:38 am
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/sapulpa-motorcyclist-dies-in-wreck-with-cable-barrier-on-u/article_5a054f0b-8b15-5105-86d8-6a87ababcc9a.html


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: patric on April 26, 2015, 09:38:56 am
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/sapulpa-motorcyclist-dies-in-wreck-with-cable-barrier-on-u/article_5a054f0b-8b15-5105-86d8-6a87ababcc9a.html

Those troopers apparently didnt say if a helmet would have been relevant to his injuries.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: sgrizzle on April 26, 2015, 12:03:13 pm
Those troopers apparently didnt say if a helmet would have been relevant to his injuries.

Someone on a motorcycle at highway speed without a helmet who leaves to road, I'm not sure if it matters which of the 98 ways that ends in death. Could've died running into a beany baby barrier.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Breadburner on April 27, 2015, 09:09:12 am
I'm sure a helmet would have protected the head after it was decapitated from the cable barrier......


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 27, 2015, 11:38:33 am
I'm sure a helmet would have protected the head after it was decapitated from the cable barrier......


Keeps it all centrally located for easy scoop shovel retrieval... there is no winning in that kind of scenario.




Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: patric on October 30, 2017, 10:10:02 am
The contracts for repairing these in perpetuity must be lucrative; why else would we continue to do something that consistently doesnt work?


A motorcyclist was killed Sunday afternoon when he was hit head-on by an SUV that leapt a cable barrier dividing the eastbound and westbound lanes of the Keystone Expressway.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/update-motorcyclist-killed-in-head-on-collision-on-u-s/article_81738347-b4e4-5d21-98ce-ee70f8433f23.html


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on October 30, 2017, 08:34:37 pm
10 years ago some of you thought I was talking out my donkey on how bad these are.

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=7094.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=7094.0)


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: Conan71 on October 31, 2017, 04:38:49 pm
10 years ago some of you thought I was talking out my donkey on how bad these are.

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=7094.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=7094.0)

If the Suburban was already rolling when it got to the barrier, the barrier may have just been an incidental player in this mess rather than a cause.  It was shocking to see the Harley bagger inside the Suburban via the windshield.  I believe that's what you call a million-to-one shot.

Oh, but cable barriers do still suck.


Title: Re: New highway dividers.
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 01, 2017, 09:54:12 am
10 years ago some of you thought I was talking out my donkey on how bad these are.

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=7094.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=7094.0)


On a very early ABATE Toy Run - about number 4 or 5, IIRC - after toys were delivered, and everyone left the bar across from Jack's, one of the participants was going through the inner dispersal loop and had some trouble keeping it straight and level on the road.  The passenger panicked and either tried to step off, or was thrown from the back of the bike (not sure which), sliding down the guard rail barrier there and basically was cut into halves.  Any bike incident can turn serious to the point of grim in a flash.  As can car wrecks.  

Having said that, the cables seem like a much easier way for things to go very badly, very quickly, in a bigger variety of vehicles.  And maintenance has to be just pure stupid - another gravy train kickback event for someone's cronies!