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Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Limabean on January 23, 2009, 07:53:23 am Did anyone catch the name of the PAC that some of the indicted individuals participate in?
I hope this PAC hasn't contributed to any of our elected officials. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: DowntownNow on January 24, 2009, 12:36:20 pm Lima...its the AGC PAC, a PAC "Established as a PAC to support Oklahoma canidates running for Senator, Legislator or Governor."
Interesting read of who's who on their website http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/527/oklahoma_agc_pac.asp Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 24, 2009, 01:19:41 pm There are some familiar names among the contributors. The same ones being reported in the World stories. However, most of the money donated by that PAC are to the GOP PAC's. Small amounts to individuals but a $10,000 donation to a GOP pac. Not too surprising since we're a solid red state, but $0 donations to local Democratic candidates or PAC's. So much for conspiracy with the mayor or locals.
I suspect this story goes a lot deeper. Tulsa has a long heritage of business under the table, in the back room, by proxy ...whatever you want to call it. In fact, Oklahoma has a history of corruption. Mostly its been hearsay and sour grapes but this one has legs because it was done by a third party at the Federal level with no interference from locals. Lots of firms who were treated shoddily in past bidding processes are smiling contently this week. I know of one who confided such nonsense was happening just this past summer. Here's what I derive from the news coverage. Taylor could not be involved with the investigation other than probable knowledge of its existence. Lots of people have commented in the past few years on some sort of federal investigation occurring. This one started before her election in 2005. Her choice would have been to get involved and tip off the conspirators by signing on to Bynum's auditing request of Public Works, or to delay any action till the feds finished. The latter action would serve to absolve her of any appearance of involvement in fraud and allow the perpetrators to be snared. Easy choice. To blame her and insist on her taking the fall because the final announcement of the indictments occurred on her shift (as has been suggested on another thread and in the TW comments) is pure partisan politics and downright shameful. [B)] Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Wrinkle on January 24, 2009, 03:53:36 pm On the other hand, if the Mayor knew of this investigation, why did she not jump onboard for an independent audit a long time ago?
...just killin' time waiting for the indictments? If there's one thing the local established power detests, it's outside intervention. They would be doing everything possible to keep outsiders away. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 24, 2009, 06:00:35 pm quote: "Taylor could not be involved with the investigation other than probable knowledge of its existence. Lots of people have commented in the past few years on some sort of federal investigation occurring. This one started before her election in 2005. Her choice would have been to get involved and tip off the conspirators by signing on to Bynum's auditing request of Public Works, or to delay any action till the feds finished. The latter action would serve to absolve her of any appearance of involvement in fraud and allow the perpetrators to be snared. Easy choice. " Killing time waiting for the indictments? It wasn't her job to stop the feds even if she knew of it. The rumors were written about on this forum years ago that there was some kind of big investigation going on. Did LaFortune sit back and wait for indictments too? Did the councillors? And, did you want her to jump in with some local yokel guys, tip off the schemers and possibly risk screwing up a perfectly neutral investigation so that you guys could accuse her of interference? She loses either way with your rationale. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: DowntownNow on January 24, 2009, 06:09:01 pm Channel 8 interview on Friday 1/23...Taylor knew nothing of the investigation until receiving word that one of the indicted (assumably Martinez) had aburptly resigned. Martinez resigned Wednesday according to published reports. Indictments were unsealed on Thursday. I think its pretty safe to say that Taylor knew nothing of the federal investigation before that according to her own statements in that same interview and the fact that federal grand jury investigations are kept secret.
So Waterboy, her decision not to previously contract for an independent performance audit was entirely without regard for the federal probe. She simply didnt want to or she would have done it. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 24, 2009, 06:15:06 pm We're both relying on assumptions, presumptions and hearsay. I'm just answering a simple question based on what I've read here and in the media reports. I read that she knew of the investigation, then I read she didn't. I personally heard rumors of investigations before she was elected. They were explained away. Now it seems they were diversionary explanations.
Think she heard of them too? One could know about an investigation but not know of its progress or its results which may explain the two different remarks. One may also be told to butt out and shut up. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 24, 2009, 06:20:25 pm I wonder how it would have been perceived by you folks had she jumped in with Bynum and had depts. audited by independent parties? Especially if they found nothing? You would have called it another unnecessary expense since we already have auditors assigned those functions. And if those employees are not reliable enough to perform those functions...they should be eliminated. So, with your plan she loses both the respect of her workers and reinforces your contention that she is out of control and abetting corruption.
Nice choice. "Light the torches boys, we're going in!"[:D] Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: DowntownNow on January 24, 2009, 06:49:10 pm Waterboy, you're prolly referring to the TW article where they stated that Taylor "had indicated" she was aware of the investigation and had been having extensive discussions with FBI, etc.
The Channel 8 interview has Taylor personally answering that she only knew of it as I described above. Here is the link to both...in the case of the TW it was a clear assumption not based on fact. The Ch 8 interview can be nothing more than fact since it is her answering that very question. No assumptions here my friend...just documented fact. http://cfc.ktul.com/videoondemand.cfm?id=32021 http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090123_11_A4_MayorK556200 Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 25, 2009, 11:41:32 am I'm always glad to make a new friend.[:D]
Nonetheless, my insights, though based on conflicting remarks by herzhonor, still stand. She had little to gain and a lot to lose by signing on with Bynum's effort. In fact, that is probably why no one else signed on. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: DowntownNow on January 25, 2009, 01:00:28 pm Waterboy - What she stands to gain is some credibility in the minds of the public that she is moving to do the right thing, particularly in light of the fact that some fraud has already been found in the Public Works Department - one division mind you. To order an audit says to the general public that
"I hear your concerns, I share them and to prove that we are on top of it and no other funny business is going on (especially since the Public Works Depts own officials are balking at an independent audit) we are going to conduct a thorough one of all departments to show we mean business that corruption and misuse of tax payers dollard will not be tolerated." Truth in transparency. What does she have to lose? Face if an independent performance audit finds that there is further corruption within the PWD? Not that hard choices and swift action should not already be occurring with what has been found already (firing department heads, etc) but finding further fraud and ending it would be seen as a huge gain in her favor. If the audit finds nothing, she can rest easy in the fact that she did all she could to find anything amiss and the public will give more confidence. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 25, 2009, 01:20:38 pm You're talking current time. I was talking past time. Currently, with all that has surfaced, I agree there is much to be gained by authorizing a widespread government audit by a third party. Let the chips fall where they may. Where does the funding come from?
Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: DowntownNow on January 25, 2009, 06:20:43 pm Well she can find $7.1 million to pay out to BOK for the Great Plains Airlines fiasco when the City wasnt even a part of the lawsuit and should never have been, but that's another debate, so let's make this simple.
The City Council was recently told that there was approximately $135.2 million in unspent sales-tax and bond-package funds dating as far back as 1991. While some of that money may have specific criteria for its expenditure and must be redirected using approved ordinances, some are unappropriated funds that could be used for such services if I understand this correctly. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 25, 2009, 06:42:45 pm quote: Oh. You're one of those guys. Hold a grudge long do you? She won. I like simplicity. If the council goes along with the full audit plan and the source of funding is legal, then she should sign on and make it happen. But lets be team players. If its not 100% agreement on the council then ...not. She's not the coach, merely one of the players. The same stalemate is happening at the congressional level. Some folks sit around and wait until controversial legislation is sure to be approved, then vote against it so they can use their negative vote in the next campaign. If the legislation proves to be effective then they take that credit too. What $ figure do you have in mind? I'm sure there are lots of hands reaching for those unspent, un-allocated funds. May not be much left. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Double A on January 25, 2009, 07:09:32 pm quote: Kinda like Taylor the Tyrant pushing annual municipal utility rate increases for the next five years (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20080529_11_A7_hOffic670457&archive=yes") and then going before the Corporation Commission to oppose the utility rate increases requested by AEP/PSO expressing concerns that "We must be mindful and protective about cost increases during this time, particularly for those families that we're seeing falling out of the safety net, lower income families and senior citizens." What a hypocrite. (http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p315/TYProle/makelifebitter-2copy.jpg) Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 25, 2009, 08:03:33 pm Oh, great spin master, you must have missed this fine print right under the headline:
Published: 5/29/2008 2:07 AM Last Modified: 5/29/2008 2:07 AM That proposal was made a full six months before the economic collapse. I'm guessing her opposition to the final proposal at the state level was post economic collapse...and thats why you didn't make note of it. You seem to have a lot in common with her.[:D] Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Conan71 on January 25, 2009, 08:14:37 pm quote: Not really hypocritical when you consider that AEP/PSO is a for profit corporation and the city is out all costs for water and sewage operations. It's a for-profit, publicly-traded monopoly vs. a municipal-owned system. Apple/orange. I don't like the rate hikes either, but there's really no fair comparison if you consider the city fronts all overhead on municipal utilities and they have to break even, either via direct billing or some sort of tax assessment. One way or the other, you will pay for the increase. Rate increases are a more transparent way of doing it. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Conan71 on January 25, 2009, 08:18:49 pm quote: I hold Mayor Taylor as accountable as former Mayors: LaFortune, Savage, Randall, Crawford, Young, Inhofe, LaFortune, etc. ad nauseum. Public Works has been a rogue department for decades and allowed to pretty well run amok. I'll be interested to see if she makes over-hauling PW one of her top priorities. Hardt's departure from city government is long-overdue. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: shadows on January 25, 2009, 08:27:29 pm Here we go again. Like the Rabbit in the Wizard of OZ, “lets have a party.”
There was a grand jury called to investigate the Public Works. The woman that got 5,000 signatures was not allowed to present her evidence to the grand jury. Only the city legal department was allowed to present evidence to the jury which was secluded. The Jury report was to have an outside audit made. It was never made because the information was not turned over to the city auditors department. PW never got the time to put it together for a private audit. Few can remember when the core samples were taken of the federal funded expressway and the results found. This has been happening for years but as Tulsa is referred to as “Gods little acreage known as the State of Tulsa” and it has been going on for years. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Double A on January 25, 2009, 09:31:02 pm quote: The economy was tanking then (http://"http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/01/news/economy/recession/index.htm?postversion=2008120112"). Waterbuoy, the floater on the river denial. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 25, 2009, 10:03:24 pm quote: Hey, no one in Tulsa or Oklahoma thought we were tanking then. I argued with real estate folks and Wilbur about it early last year on these threads. In fact many people still think OK is escaping the pain. Now that's real denial. "Floater"...that's good. In 'Nam, floaters were dead bodies in the river. Not there yet. Conan and Shadows are closer to the truth. PW is long overdue for auditing and every mayor since I was a child knew it. Something keeps it from happening. Maybe "We can't handle the truth!" I have heard allegations for years that it costs more to do business here than it should because of all the hands reaching out for "grease" money. It was common in the building trades, I hear it is common in road construction and in the bidding process. State and local. Is it our heritage? Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 25, 2009, 10:31:05 pm Yeah, we need more of that kind of stuff in Tulsa. Chaos, venemous politics and vendettas do wonders for a city's bond ratings and curb appeal. "Come do business in Tulsa...we'd love to sue ya!"
We're like a remake of a Marx Bros movie. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Double A on January 25, 2009, 11:30:57 pm quote: Especially when they follow two years of annual rate increases, which is exactly what Taylor the Tyrant demanded and got approved in her last two budgets (2006/2007 (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=239&articleid=070502_238_A1_hTayl13007&archive=yes")- 2007/2008 (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=239&articleid=070502_238_A1_hTayl13007&archive=yes")). At least AEP/PSO lowered their fuel cost charges on customers’ bills when fuel prices went down. Taylor the Tyrant sure as hell hasn't passed those fuel cost savings on to city customers, instead she sought to raise rates annually till 2012. Apples and oranges, indeed. One way or another? Well, the rate increases might be more a transparent way of doing it, if they weren't being used to subsidize suburban water service (http://"http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=400"). Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: inteller on January 26, 2009, 08:36:13 am quote: its called a qui tam taxpayer suit and it's what happens when someone mishandles taxpayer money. If anything if I were a business I would WANT to do business in a city where officials are kept in check. If taylor loses this will come directly out of her pocket, not the city. A loss of a qui tam is an automatic penalty of 3x the amount in question. So Taylor will have to cough up 21.3 mill....a hefty sum even for her. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 26, 2009, 09:23:15 am Otherwise known as crank politics. It makes the city look bad, makes honest people avoid running for office and only serves to reinforce our reputation as a community set off against itself. We spend our capital recalling councillors, harassing mayors, castrating our media and suing each other as though thats progress.
I would like to see some example of how that toxic brew has attracted business cause it doesn't seem to be working here. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: DowntownNow on January 26, 2009, 10:38:35 am Waterboy, I can say with utmost certainty that many builders/developers don't want to work with the City or are apprehensive because the City hasn't wanted to work with them. For years my friends in the field have told me story after story about how difficult the City makes it for them to pass plans, get permitting, acquire much needed help in the form of tax incentives, abatements and TIF funds, etc. (Unless of course you're part of the system...anyone see how fast they started working on that ballpark? Before the ink dried on the Council OK for bonds and it takes 3-4 weeks to get a single family residential house permit) Tulsa has a reputation for not being builder/developer friendly already. When a scandal such as this hits, it not only rocks the foundation of trust by the citizens, it looks bad to outside developers too. Taking action to see that it isn't still happening or that it wont happen again goes along way to re-establishing that trust for all parties.
Earlier you asked how much money are we talking. For the independent performance audit of Public Works, Bynum has stated that they had located a firm out of Texas that had a price I believe of $221,000 to perform. Now he is stating that in order to be transparent and fair to the citizens, any audit should have an RFP process attached so that many could reply and one be chosen. I firmly applaud that idea because citizens could then ask for the explaination of how that RFP process chose its auditor and its a part of the public record. Furthermore, what you call mayoral harrassment and the actions to recall councilors and such; thats a part of the democratic process that we get to enjoy in this country as citizens. It allows people to have a voice if, for instance, they feel their elected representatives are not paying attention or abidding by the will of those they were elected to serve. Questioning and wanting answers and actions are what founded and continue to promote American democracy. If we didn't question the King's rule we would still be a British colony...luckily a few did choose to question and both you and I get to enjoy that freedom to so do today. In my hmble opinion and being one of the younger Tulsa crowd that wants to see this city grow, I say it looks for more progressive and inviting when someone can step forward and be able to ask for accountability in government...but thats just me. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 26, 2009, 08:06:58 pm Yeah, well thanks for the lecture on civics. Throw in some pragmatism and I'll take notes next time.
I'm still waiting for some real life example of a city that spends lots of time devouring itself and yet still looks inviting to outside businesses. Its not happening here. We have an unhealthy competition here of at least five little bergs, downtown vs burbs, insiders vs entrepreneurs, oily vs working class, trust fund vs day to day, professional vs non, religious vs non and religious vs religious. Probably forgot a lot more like conservative vs not, dem vs repub etc. Like I said, its Woody Allen does the Marx Bros. I will say you had me fooled for a little while. Until you focussed your wrath on the current mayor and somehow forgave the last four decades of executive and council-commissioner leadership. Audit the whole city and county, get rid of the mayor and watch with dismay as the whole group reassembles themselves like Cyborgs from the Terminator. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Conan71 on January 26, 2009, 09:10:48 pm quote: You forgot, Socs vs. Greasers, Waterboys vs. Conans. [;)] You and RM, probably more than anyone, know that Mayor Taylor doesn't get a free pass from me. But, as you are saying, you cannot impugn her without impugning every other mayoral administration of the last 40-some years. So far, you seem to be the only other poster here who is as familiar with the long pattern of corruption as I am. It's almost as if some people think this all STARTED in the last few years... hardly. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 26, 2009, 09:36:28 pm quote: You're alright in my books Conan because you make your views passionately and with reason yet listen to others. You play hard but consistently. I disagree with some major points but we come from different backgrounds so we had to arrive at different places. I enjoy people who have done stuff, put themselves at risk, take calculated chances and learn from their humbling moments. BTW, met Beryl Ford last week. He definitely is one of those. My father spoke of a builder he worked for who would slip large bills in between permit application forms. He always got his permits expedited, kept his crews working and built some fine homes and apartments. He also was a crook who used inside information to build cheap hotels where eventually, (mock)surprisingly a state highway would later be scheduled to pass through. He garnered several times the value of his property from the state for his keen insights. That was the 1950's-60's. It was one of Tulsa's greatest growth periods outside of the twenties. Now, I don't condone that behavior, simply making note. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: DowntownNow on January 27, 2009, 01:17:45 am Waterboy - Sorry to disappoint you again with facts but as I'm sure you know, I already replied in the other "corruption" thread (where you have posted as well) that this has been going on for years and I already placed blame on previous administrations for not doing anything. I haven't forgiven anything from the past but what can you do about it today?
The simple fact of the matter is, it is now Taylor's administration that has the ball and her failure to do anything with regards to the numerous audit requests. It's her adminstration in place when proof of fraud and such have come to light from a third party. I'm focusing my disapproval with her handling of the situation since she is the one in office and can and should effect change. In politics it's common to be handed over the problems from your predecessor, look at the new President - economy, wars, foreign policy, etc. It's how you choose to walk in the first day and start handling them. Just because someone else started the ball rolling or turned a blind eye doesn't mean your hands are clean or you get a pass because you're the new name on the door. This issue has been raised time and time again, most recently during the Street's campaign where Tayklor said she listened to the concerns of the citizens...must not have listened too hard, and must be deaf if you've had a City Councilor in your ear since April 08 asking and helping you formulate a plan for an audit. Now I know things move slow in government but wow...but 9 mos to order an audit? That's just laughable. I don't care for the devisivness anymore than you or how we are being perceived by outsiders. I dont want Tulsa to become the next Chicago, but I believe there is a rising tide that people are fed up with not being paid attention to by our elected officials. If we don't bother to question the status quo then we have no room to gripe or hope for better. I'm right there with Conan too...yes, let's impugn the last 40 years of Tulsa politics but what good does that do today? How are you going to hold those that are out of office accountable now? Was there a problem before? Yes. Is there a problem today? Yes. Is anything going to change if we raise our voice? Hopefully. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 27, 2009, 09:04:49 am quote: Lets get this out of the way. To be blunt, I don't care for your condescension. You don't dissapoint me and facts are in the eyes of the beholder. Judges decide facts. You hold Taylor responsible and think she should either fix this long term problem or shoulder the failure and exit office. So two things come to mind. One, with your reasoning, you must hold "W" responsible for the 911 failure. Happened on his watch even though he was aware of former administrations failed efforts to track down and kill Al Queda and Bin Laden. Instead, even though we had an embassy bombed, and a ship bombed, he had not mounted any effort to punish the aggressors. Right? I doubt you'll find many supporters of that argument here, in fact his re-election proved no one else did either. 911 was the result of a process that each of the last 8 administrations helped create. Second, you seem to ignore the realities of management. Unless you set your sights on being the next martyr of the month, a leader must do a cost/benefit analysis of any decision. I laid this out to you yet you have not responded. She's not Lincoln or Ghandi, she's a mere mayor of a bloodthirsty political city. Here is her cost of unilaterally effecting a PW audit by a third party: -Cost of audit. Not budgeted. Money would come from appropriations of tax money that is already being spent on salaried auditors whose functions are ...to audit. If those current employees cannot do the audit reasonably, then why are they there? Are they untrustworthy? Why? And what if it is unproductive? Then she really catches hell because she totally wasted taxpayer money or is percieved to have failed in cleaning up the corruption. -Demoralized employees. Its bad enough everyone thinks all of PW is corrupt, now the rest of the city is suspect. From auditors to cops, everyone is considered on the take. Without employee support even the best leaders fail. She fails, Tulsa suffers. -PW and Hardt obviously are strong worthy opponents or previous mayors and councils would have taken them on. You expect her to take them on without the full support of the council? That is a serious cost of doing business. If she can get the 100% support of the often adversarial, ambitious council members to start the process, then she at least can contemplate some success without political sniping. There are other costs as well, but if she nuts up and just does the right thing, what are her benefits?- -The undying love of conservative republicans who desire smaller, more efficient government, less taxes and l'aizze faire? Not likely. -More businesses moving in from outside the city looking for a clean wholesome community to operate in? Maybe, but thats debatable. I doubt we lost oil companies because of corruption in PW. - Taxpayer thankfulness that someone was watching out for their interests. Yes! Bottom line is that if her detractors really want less corruption in government and want her to spearhead the fight, they will stop calling for her demise, stop suing her, stop calling her names and put pressure on the council to support a fair audit. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Rico on January 27, 2009, 01:26:11 pm Tulsa Public Works Director Charles Hardt was not available for comment.
Did anyone else catch the article regarding the "Goals" for the Tulsa Metro Chamber for 2009? One listed was the formation of a Tulsa Metro Chamber PAC... This to promote their "Political Agenda". Does this mean that the "Hotel Motel Tax" monies that the TMC receive can be used for a Political Agenda? In my mind, if your going to clean house,... as far as corruption within the City, County, etc all of these items need to be looked at as possible contributing factors. If done correctly... This could be turned into quite a Political coup for the Taylor Administration. Hope this is not too far off topic.... Maybe just one of the symptoms of a " Hardt Attack " [}:)] Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Double A on January 27, 2009, 03:13:21 pm quote: Anything coming out of Taylor the Tyrant's mouth right now is just empty rhetoric and CYA. For example, remember how Queen Kathy promised to stop holding private state of the city addresses at the Metro Chamber and make them public while running for office? Where have all her state of the city addresses taken place since she's taken office? Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Conan71 on January 27, 2009, 10:48:50 pm AA, what happened? Did you try to pick Mayor Taylor up at the Leake auction one year and she shunned you?
You've never offered a single objective opinion of her. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Wrinkle on January 28, 2009, 08:38:19 pm Reacted today like a true politician.
Made 'changes' in the methodology to assure that cannot happen again. Leaves complete authority in PW dept. Ordered a forensic audit of particular path/process and not entire PW dept. Just enough to look like something's happening when none of that will do much, playing odds it won't happen again during her term. We need top to bottom fiscal audit of PW and a new Director, oversight. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Double A on January 28, 2009, 09:07:46 pm quote: Like I said, PR, empty rhetoric and CYA. Now she's even backing off terminating the contracts for the companies involved and removing them from the city's list of preapproved bidders. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: TeeDub on January 29, 2009, 09:02:36 am Ah, the news cameras have stopped looking so back to business as usual. I love how the sheep have such short attention spa.. OH LOOK A MONKEY! Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 29, 2009, 09:22:04 am Not exactly out of camera range, just not the local one inch deep variety.
I watched the mayor go before the Council Public Works committee on TGov on Tuesday. It was good to see adults behaving like adults. Some were testy, some were defensive, Taylor was neither. They were all looking for details and answers. It was affirming. This is the process necessary unless you just start firing, investigating and suing. Sometimes a dancing monkey is just what the public needs. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: RecycleMichael on January 29, 2009, 10:45:31 am quote: That is going to be my slogan when I run for political office. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 29, 2009, 08:58:41 pm You just tipped your hand! Executive or legislative?
Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Double A on January 29, 2009, 09:37:00 pm quote: It's the Digestive branch. Consumer in Chief. Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: waterboy on January 29, 2009, 09:47:26 pm quote: [:D]Maybe I could finally be appointed Commander of the Inland Seas (Tulsa County). Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: Double A on January 29, 2009, 09:53:39 pm quote: I could be the Minister of Malcontents.[:D] Title: re: City Corruption and PAC money Post by: shadows on February 02, 2009, 12:12:03 am Lets have an audit. Lets go back even before the final vote on changing the charter. Who is going to challenge lifers that spend their entire life running the city but was never elected, only followed the mainstream of city employees looking for the pension so they can continue a life-stile they become accustom to outside the city. The fraud and corruption gained strength after the end of WW11. Among any group there is always one who feels he/she has been mistreated then they exercise their grievances by becoming the informer. One needs to be very naďve to believe the we have found the spark and quench the fire of frauds that has burned for over an half of a century in the city.
We are going to have an audit. We have selected one, but who on going to instruct him how they want it audited? We have an auditing department but that is elected and the city lifers ignore the city auditor's request for information so one of the insiders exercises a vendetta by bringing the FBI and other federal offices into a headliner episode that will go no where. There will be many inter-office meeting and a good chance they will be loads of shredded paper to recycle. It is all in the capitalism system where the capitalist finances the venture that give jobs to produce items for trade. We have a whole new glass building that we didn’t need, which we are not sure who owns, because we have to ask permission to put a sign near or on it, that is being paid for by the capitalist called the working poor. It seems to be full of employees that could not see the millions of dollars being passed around under the tables until an disgruntled participant screamed fraud as if in a crowded theater. When it is all past and no smoke is apparent, it will be the business as usual will continue as it has in the past. We can have an audit then we should have an audit of the auditor to make sure we have not been shortchanged again. |