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Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: pmcalk on December 31, 2008, 01:31:42 pm The city is once again considering moving to once a week trash pickup:
quote: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081230_11_A1_RickFr151127 Personally, once a week trash pick up would suit me just fine. I usually don't have enough trash for the second pick up anyway, and I like that they will take lawn waste to be mulched. However, I wish they expand the recycling program along with the reduction. I would like to see weekly recycling, just like trash pick up. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I can never remember which week I am suppose to put out my recycling. Also, I would like to see them pick up more curbside recycling--like metal cans, aluminum foil, more plastics, phone books, & plastic bags. Many cities pick these items up curbside, and it would help to reduce the amount of waste for landfills. Finally, as part of the yard waste disposal, I would love to see a program like we had in Virginia. On designated dates, you could simply rake your leaves to the curb, and the city would come vacuum them up. I bet more people would support the switch if you included something like that. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Hometown on December 31, 2008, 02:11:41 pm We live in the NW Quadrant and have once a week pickup now. The schedule is not a problem and the carts are nice. And I would like to see stepped up recycling with more items taken for recycling with the recycling picked up by the garbage collectors with the garbage. I like the fact that the recycling fee would be mandatory whether it was used or not. When it comes to recycling many other parts of the nation have left us in the dust. Even my sister doesn't recycle. Amazing how many people here don't recycle. What will they do when the future arrives and they don't know how to function?
I imagine a lot of money and livelihoods are at stake in this decision. There are probably all sorts of behind the scenes things going on. And isn't the underworld involved with garbage collection in many U.S. cities? Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Wilbur on December 31, 2008, 02:24:05 pm 50% reduction in trash pick up? I'm all for it, if........
....... there is a 50% reduction in my trash bill. Anything less is just another fee increase. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: RecycleMichael on December 31, 2008, 02:53:45 pm I don't have time to properly answer because I have to clean the margarita machine for my wife's party tonight.
I will write more later. This idea is sound, but I am not sure is going anywhere. I truly believe we could have the best trash and recycling programs in the state if we followed this report for no additional money. I just don't think there are enough green people in Tulsa to overcome the objections from those who demand twice-a-week service. They like everything the way it is and don't want to change. Almost every other big city in the country and the region has switched to this kind and level of trash service, but Tulsans think their trash stinks more and will scream against the idea of change. As much as I hope that some of the councilors read the report and become champions for the cause, I am still skeptical. The pilot program fiasco last year just made them wary of the whole idea of changing anything. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: OurTulsa on December 31, 2008, 03:47:58 pm I'm all for efficiency and recycling and have no objections to once a week trash pick-up plan.
Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Breadburner on December 31, 2008, 04:09:17 pm I could do every 2 weeks with ease...
Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: cannon_fodder on December 31, 2008, 04:11:15 pm quote: Perhaps it is a measure to AVOID rate increases. I don't know the economics well enough, but the cost of trash service is on both the pickup and delivery side. They have to pay someone to take it... and that cost will likely NOT go down with once a week pickup. I'm all for it if it saves the city and tax payers money or otherwise increases efficiency. It's not that big of a deal and if you create more trash than you can fit in your barrel you should be paying more for the pickup anyway. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: TURobY on December 31, 2008, 04:28:32 pm quote: How so? Will you be generating 50% less waste? Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: dbacks fan on December 31, 2008, 04:46:33 pm quote: When we got our recycle can and they changed us to once a week for trash and once a week for recycle it cut our trash by more than half some weeks, and there is no seperate charge for the two. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: sgrizzle on December 31, 2008, 04:48:18 pm I'm all for the way the pilot program did it, weekly trash and recycling pickup on the same day.
My trash picks up 8 times a month and recycling picks up twice a month. That's not a way to promote recycling. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: dbacks fan on December 31, 2008, 04:59:23 pm Here are the guidelines (http://"http://phoenix.gov/GARBAGE/recycle.html#GUIDES")for the Phoenix recycle program.
Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Jitter Free on December 31, 2008, 05:30:31 pm I must say I am in favor of keeping it at 2 times a week.
Good point raised by the person who said 50% less service then 50% less bill. The pilot program they had was 50% less service for maybe 20% less bill. I thought. I could be wrong on that number. I called around some of the private trash haulers in the area. Most will do 2 days a week service for some a little less than the city is charging and some right at what the city is charging. If they do move to once a day, I will call my city councilor and ask for an exemption out (sort of like the EMSA charge). Exempt me out and I will contract with a private company for my 2 day a week service and pay a little less for it. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: waterboy on December 31, 2008, 06:13:34 pm Aren't the once a week containers larger? And aren't they provided with the service?
Less fuel consumed for pickups, more incentive for recycling. I would support once a week. I always forget which day the second pick up is and miss it anyway. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: MDepr2007 on December 31, 2008, 09:45:53 pm Don't fine me for leaving the container at the curb all week and I might go for it. Not like the average citizen will have a say in the matter anyway
Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: inteller on December 31, 2008, 09:55:44 pm i'll take one a week and free recycling, but there better be a rate reduction for reduction in service. Don't try to pass it off as "well we need save costs so its either once a week or raise your rates" bull****.
Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: TURobY on January 01, 2009, 01:17:05 am Unless you are reducing your waste by half, I'm having a difficult time understanding why your cost would be halved. I could understand a rate reduction due to possible less staffing, but a reduction by half doesn't make sense to me as twice as much refuse will be picked up half as often.
Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Pebbles on January 01, 2009, 01:42:29 am quote: I know! That is what I am trying to tell everybody! It isn't about service. Service is getting your drink refilled before you take the last sip. Disclaimer: I live in the NW quadrant and have been getting once a week service ever since I moved here 8 years ago. If I had twice a week service I would probably forget to take the trash out at least once a week. I know I did when I lived elsewhere. This isn't a luxury we are talking here folks. But yet twice a week service is a luxury... not a necessity. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Wilbur on January 01, 2009, 07:25:53 am quote: Trash rates are not generated based on the amount of trash I put at the curb (yet, anyway. I know of cities who do that.). No matter what service you have (once or twice weekly) there is a limit how much the collector will pick up. There I times I find twice weekly crazy because I have less then one trash bag sitting in my trash can. I totally agree having trash pick up and recycling pick up at the same time would increase recycling efforts. It is a pain in the butt not having them at the same and I too often forget about recycling pick up, which causes my garage to fill up with recycled stuff because I have to wait another two weeks. I've done both; once weekly and twice weekly. I can live with either. And didn't the City end up with more money when they changed to the landfill from the Trash-to-Energy plant? Weren't costs much lower to go to the landfill? My bill didn't go down when they made the switch. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: patric on January 01, 2009, 11:16:49 am We'll know if it's such a good idea when it turns 100 degrees.
Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: pmcalk on January 01, 2009, 11:35:37 am quote: If we recycled as much as Phoenix, I could go down to once a month trash pick up. It would be wonderful if we recycled juice/milk cartons, empty cereal boxes, etc.... Why is Tulsa not able to recycle more materials? Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Miss Solemnis on January 01, 2009, 12:57:52 pm quote: I assume you're referring to heat-related smell with once-a-week pickups. I'm seeing all sorts of rants on the TW site about potential smell, maggots and other pests, etc. We recently moved back to Tulsa from Fort Lauderdale, where we had once a week cart service - and also a fantastic recycling program - and never had a problem with smell or pests of any sort, even in that subtropical climate. No big deal to just periodically hose out the cart if you're worried about it. We're in Reservoir Hill now, have once-a-week pickup and our cart is rarely full. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: inteller on January 01, 2009, 02:14:58 pm quote: actually yes I will, because I will be recycling too, so someone is going to take those recyclables, recycle them, and sell them for $$$. I want those profits passed back to me in the form of reduced rates. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: RecycleMichael on January 01, 2009, 04:11:39 pm quote: Of course, that is included in the plans. The study referred to in the plan calls for the city to pay $20 a ton for disposal and get paid $30 a ton for mixed recyclables. The average household in Tulsa produces about 2800 pounds a year of garbage. If you recycled 50%, that would be about 14 dollars less per year for disposal and about 21 dollars more per household in recycling revenue. That 35 dollars per year difference is three dollars per month. Unfortunately, recycling prices have plummeted in the last couple of months so the difference is now probably about $1.50 per month. There is also some fuel savings expected. Once-a-week trash and every other week recycling works out to 78 services per year versus the current 104 services per year. That should hopefully save about 20% in fuel costs. The majority of Tulsans are serviced by a contractor so the fuel savings will help them, but not we the rate-payers for now. These savings should be used to pay for new large polycarts, one for trash and one for recyclables. They cost about $50 a piece and require about a ten per cent replacement rate per year. All that being said...Tulsa can give every household new carts where they now have to provide their own, can offer a great recycling program which will create new jobs and save landfill space, and do it for about the same amount of money as they are spending currently. All it takes now is a city council not afraid of going to once-a-week trash. If every other city in the country can do it, why not Tulsans? Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: dbacks fan on January 01, 2009, 09:11:29 pm quote: Something else we have is bulk trash (http://"http://phoenix.gov/GARBAGE/trshcoll.html") pickup every quarter during the year. It is a good way to get rid of various items that you can't fit in your normal pickup, or when you want to do some extra cleaning. The one thing that happens though is you have people that know the schedule for areas around town and they troll for scrap metal, and I mean any scrap metal. I set out an old water heater and two old grills that were not useable at 9:00 in the evening and they were gone within three hours. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: RecycleMichael on January 01, 2009, 09:19:31 pm Tulsa has free bulky waste pickup upon appointment. It is currently unlimited, but the study calls for a reasonable limit for the future.
If you have a sofa, a refrigerator, or a similar sized item in Tulsa, you can call 596-9777 and schedule a bulky watse pickup. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Wrinkle on January 02, 2009, 12:03:55 pm How much would a Study cost to determine the need/efficacy of TARE? This dinasour operation needs to vote to dismantle itself if they were interested in the best thing for the City/residents.
Half our trash rates were for an incinerator now not used (until recently re-fired up as private operation by the bankrupted prior 'owner'). They reduced rates by $1. This 'study' is only about reducing costs/increasing revenues and not about how often trash is picked up, or if recycling is implemented. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: RecycleMichael on January 02, 2009, 12:26:14 pm quote: Once again wrinkle, you are wrong with your facts. Half the trash rate wasn't for the incinerator. The trash to energy plant was a more expensive way to dispose of trash than simply burying it. The whole contract was one-sided away from the city (Thanks for nothing, Inhofe). The debt payment on the plant averaged 9 million dollars a year for 20 years. The overall TARE budget when the plant was running was about 35 million and now is 25 million. Disposal costs are about 3 million dollars of the current budget. The contractor, TRI gets about 9 million a year for picking up 3 fourths of the city and the remainder goes to city crews for the northwest portion, the greenwaste wood chipping, recycling, litter cleanups, and funding the haz waste collections at the fairgrounds. The TARE board conducts all their meetings in public, their budget is discussed in length at every monthly meeting, and their members accessable for media and city councilors. They appeared at city committee meetings shown on TV dozens of times last year. I don't know why you would call them a "dinosaur operation", unless you just feel like attacking things you know nothing about. The TARE board lowered the rates for customers last year...name one other utility or fee that has done that lately. Water, sewer, gas, electricity rates all keep going up and trash rates went down in 2008. I argued against it, wanting instead to fund more recycling programs and education. The TARE board appointees felt differently, wanting to only charge the citizens the true cost of service. They voted unaminously to lower trash rates whenever they can. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Wrinkle on January 02, 2009, 01:06:14 pm quote: By your own numbers, I'll assume we can have City workers cover the remaining 1/4 of the City for the same $3M/qtr that contractors do the other 3/4. That makes $15M for trash services. Are you saying the other $10M is funding for MET? And, why can't that be done by the City directly instead of TARE? Last I heard, there were about 150,000 residential parcels in the City. $10M/year for the incinerator would amount to about $5.55/parcel, though this doesn't count commercial accounts which do pay their own services regardless. quote: ...and TARE had nothing to do with this, right? Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Aa5drvr on January 02, 2009, 01:15:53 pm If Tulsa Refuse is as aggressive in persuing this matter as they were one year ago when one of their contracted haulers (Controlled Waste) hit my car with no liability insurance then this is going nowhere.
Talk about a roadblock. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: RecycleMichael on January 02, 2009, 01:22:08 pm There are around 122,000 residential customers. They produce about 160,000 tons per year. There are about 8,000 commercial customers (including apartments complexes) that produce about 250,000 tons a trash per year. The trash to energy plant was financed by raising rates on both groups.
The trash-to-energy plant and the TARE board were created by Jim Inhofe when he was Mayor. None of the original board members are still involved. No, the M.e.t. does not get $9 million a year from Tulsa. I wish it were so. We have three separate contracts with Tulsa to provide services including running recycling centers and collecting hazardous waste. We also have similar type contracts with the county, nine suburbs, the state and the EPA. The City of Tulsa pays $40,000 dollars a year to the M.e.t. for administration expenses to pay the overhead. The amount of money paid to the M.e.t. for 2009 is actually less than the city paid the M.e.t. fifteen years ago when I was hired. I am very proud that we have continued to expand what we do with less government subsidy. We have never been over budget and raise enough money each year from private sources to pay my salary. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Wrinkle on January 02, 2009, 03:22:54 pm quote: I was kind of hoping you'd make my point, thanks. Please realize this is NOT an attack on the MET, you or even the current Board Members of TARE. The questions surround the actual NEED for such an organization now that there's no energy coming from the incinerator (exclusive steam contract with Sun Company, a day's work). The World is in process of trying to transform TARE (Tulsa Authority for Recovery of Energy) into "Tulsa's Trash Board", which it is not. So, now, if MET gets only $40K from TARE, what happens to the remaining $10M in the budget? We do know the Mayor has considered the large excess funds in this groups' accounts as pursing funds (used for 2007 Ice Storm cleanup). fwiw, MET does a fine job from what I can tell and is not related to the issues I have with TARE. The question remains, what does TARE do that the Public Works Department shouldn't be doing? Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Steve on January 02, 2009, 04:58:17 pm quote: Not directly, but Tulsa does have a "low generator" trash rate for residential customers. If the average water usage on your Dec., Jan., and Feb. bills is 2,000 gallons or less, you receive the low generator trash rate for the year, about $3 per month less than the standard residential rate. I think the rationale is that water useage in these months mostly excludes landscape watering and is the best indicator of the # of occupants of the home and therefore the volume of trash generated. I always go extra-stingy with water usage during these months and I have received the low trash generator rate for years. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: RecycleMichael on January 02, 2009, 05:01:17 pm Trust authorities exist for many reasons, including financing capital improvements, setting long-term priorities not connected to frequent re-election campaigns, investigating best contracts and practices independent of public staff, and even sometimes being critical of city workers.
The TARE board serves these functions just like the Tulsa Metropolitan Utility Authority does for water rates. Yes, I once argued your point that the TARE board could cease to exist without the "Energy" part of their name. But I lost that argument for valid reasons. The board still has important work to do. I also am not here to blanket defend the TARE board. I have had many confrontations with members in my years in the industry. I have been grilled and blamed for things over the years I shouldn't have been and I have also made a fool of myself fighting for things that I should have been smarter than to start. But this report, done by a reputable outside firm, is coming to a conclusion that I totally agree with. This is a great way to improve our trash service/recycling/composting programs without charging the citizens more each month. I hope others read our conversation. I thank you for the chance to explain my views. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: MDepr2007 on January 03, 2009, 12:54:58 am quote: I have fescue that I water during our warm spells in the Winter[:(] Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: MDepr2007 on January 03, 2009, 12:59:12 am How much did we citizens get over charged because of TARE? Will we get it back now that it was used for the ice storm cleanup and awaiting pay back from the Feds?
Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Wrinkle on January 03, 2009, 05:16:34 pm quote: I've been waiting to hear of the Feds reimbursement, which I do think has occurred, but so far as I can tell, none of that ever made it back to TARE. $11 Million. But, I'm not worried about TARE, they already have another $11 Million cash accrued since then. It's the process... Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Wrinkle on January 03, 2009, 05:21:48 pm quote: THIS Trust Authority existed for ONE reason, to support the Incinerator deal. Period. It's not a question of if they can find something to do, it's if they NEED to exist. As you know, our Mayor is quite proficient at contracting out of state studies. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Wrinkle on January 03, 2009, 05:37:20 pm My real concern, however, is the recent startup of the incinerator as a private operation. No less, by the same company who went bankrupt on it with an EXCLUSIVE contract and REQUIRED dumping of ALL Tulsa's trash there.
Tell me how they expect to make a profit running it now, with no City trash coming there? I suspect (I said 'suspect') the startup and this trash study and some as yet unannounced intentions will bring these two together again. The first thing I want from the incinerator is a City Council REQUIRED new BACT Test for the incinerator, performed with whatever materials it is they intend to burn there. If they won't be burning City trash, they will have to haul trash in from somewhere else. Pehaps they have renewed their Federal contract to dispose of chemical warfare agents. Last time it was just for the pallets, but anything is possible. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: RecycleMichael on January 03, 2009, 07:18:34 pm Tulsa has no power over the trash-to-energy plant anymore. When all of Tulsa's trash was going there, TARE officials demanded monthly reports of all regulatory compliance. The trash-to-energy plant is now competing with landfills for commercial trash and outside Tulsa solid waste.
I still see all their air quality permits, but it is because I take the initiative to contact the DEQ and EPA officials on my own. At this point, they are in complete compliance. I protested the burn plant when Inhofe proposed it. Then in the early 90s, I was hired to be the city of Tulsa recycling coordinator and was forced to be a tour guide of the plant. I can argue both sides of burning versus burying. I think Tulsa would like to take their trash their again, but Mayor Taylor was very insistent that Tulsa wasn't willing to pay considerably more money just to take trash there. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Wrinkle on January 03, 2009, 07:39:46 pm quote: You go build a private incinerator and see how much input the City has as to what you do. But, I suppose the existing incinerator was somehow diagramatically omitted from the City Limits. Clean Air restrictions, however, extend well beyond such boundaries, ask Edmonson about water shed issues which are similar. This plant, as far as I can tell, hasn't had a BACT Test since the first two units were installed. Even the third unit managed to avoid a BACT Test when it was built by some 'expansion' provision. We know from that the plant failed to perform even as designed, much less within compliance. The $10M spent (by us) to upgrade the filtering also never had an actual test performed. It's time for one, a formal BACT Test by EPA. I would think the owner's would be pleased to show us what a good steward of our air they are. So, what do you think they're going to burn there? Unsold copies of the World? Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: RecycleMichael on January 03, 2009, 10:31:55 pm Sorry to burst your knowledge bubble...but there really isn't a BACT test as you call it.
BACT is a term meaning Best Available Control Technology. Here is a legal interpretation... Section 169(3) of the federal Clean Air Act defines BACT as follows: The term "best available control technology" means an emission limitation based on the maximum degree of reduction of each pollutant subject to regulation under this Act emitted from or which results from any major emitting facility, which the permitting authority, on a case-by-case basis, taking into account energy, environmental, and economic impacts and other costs, determines is achievable for such facility through application of production processes and available methods, systems, and techniques, including fuel cleaning or treatment or innovative fuel combustion techniques for control of each such pollutant. In no event shall application of "best available control technology" result in emissions of any pollutant which will exceed the emissions allowed by any applicable standard established pursuant to section 111 or 112 of this Act. Emissions from any source utilizing clean fuels, or any other means, to comply with this paragraph shall not be allowed to increase above levels that would have been required under this paragraph as it existed prior to enactment of the federal Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990. The definition states that BACT "means an emission limitation based on the maximum degree of reduction of each pollutant subject to regulation under this Act emitted from or which results from any major emitting facility." It is interesting to note that BACT is somewhat of a misnomer. The form of the requirement is defined as an emission limitation and not as an equipment standard. Therefore, one is constrained to assume that the emission limitation would, in many cases, correspond to the emission rate achieved with either basic or control equipment which would otherwise be determined to be an appropriate control technology requirement. In other words, BACT should be established as a performance requirement, not as an equipment requirement, on authorities to construct and permits to operate. The trash-to-energy plant was issued an air quality permit by the state and is in compliance. Air quality is monitored three times per second. The test results are all available for review from the state DEQ. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: RecycleMichael on January 03, 2009, 10:37:33 pm quote: A typical trash truck holds about six tons of trash. The tipping fee is negotiated between private parties, but I know that the burn plant is offering prices that are about five dollars more than the landfill. A typical commercial hauler might spend $30 per load more to burn than bury, but the trash plant is usually way closer and can save him employee time and fuel by avoiding driving out to a distant landfill. That is where they will get most of their trash. They can legally bring in outside waste, in fact, so can the landfills. Most of the trash from the Springdale/Bentonville area has been trucked to Cherokee County for years. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Red Arrow on January 04, 2009, 03:56:09 pm quote: I wish I could get the oil companies to pay me to fill my car with gas. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Steve on January 05, 2009, 09:09:07 pm quote: No offense, but why people in Tulsa have fescue lawns is a complete mystery to me. I have a zoysia lawn in the front and side yards, bermuda in back. Both are warm season grasses that go dormant in the winter, and require no watering but from mother nature in the winter. In 22 years, I have never had to reseed, and weed control is miminal, hand weeding in the zoysia and 1-2 annual sprayings for weed control in the bermuda. I do water shrubs in the winter during dry spells, but never water the grass, leaving that to nature. So winter water usage for me is strictly indoor, thus contributing to my low usage and preferential trash rates. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: inteller on January 05, 2009, 09:18:38 pm so, I know the trash to energy plant is paid for, but is it actually being used? I thought it was shut down because they couldn't get enough trash to power it or some ****.
Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: RecycleMichael on January 05, 2009, 09:22:29 pm The trash burn plant shut down last July when Tulsa stopped taking their trash there. A company that used to operate the plant named Covanta Energy bought it and reopened it in November.
They haven't completely opened all three units and are agressively searching for other trash to keep the fires burning. The plant generates steam and sells it to the Sunoco refinery. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: inteller on January 05, 2009, 09:40:32 pm quote: why is it hard to get trash? I thought Tulsa had to pay someone to take our trash? Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Red Arrow on January 05, 2009, 10:30:36 pm quote: Bermuda doesn't grow well in the shade. Many areas of our yard had a nice stand of Bermuda in the early 70s. 30 some years of tree growth knocked a bunch of it out. Tree damage last winter has allowed some of it to come back. Not sure about zoysia. All the grasses I've seen that are shade tolerant seem to be a fescue variety. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: RecycleMichael on January 05, 2009, 10:57:26 pm I have a front yard of zoysia.
It is great in full sun, and works pretty good in shade. I water it everyday with an aerobic septic system and it responds well. The best part is that it makes such a tight turf that it naturally resists weeds. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: pmcalk on January 06, 2009, 08:34:21 am quote: It will be interesting to see what happens when Sunoco shuts down its refining operation. Is there any other potential buyers for steam out there? Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: RecycleMichael on January 06, 2009, 08:54:06 am quote: Not really anybody nearby. The problem is loss of pressure and temperature during transport. The trash-to-energy plant does have electric generation capability. They could use the steam to power their 16.5 megawatt generator. That could provide enough power need of 15,000 homes (or one and a half Super Wal-Marts). Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Steve on January 07, 2009, 11:24:51 am quote: I second that. It has a blade structure similar to fescue and feels like a soft carpet under my feet. Goes dormant in winter for minimal maintenance. Zoysia does well in both sunny and partial shade. My front zoysia lawn gets very few weeds in spring/summer; all I have to do is pull 'em by hand for the few that pop up, no chemicals. I guess the main drawback is it can be expensive to install; slow growing so it doesn't start well from seed or plugs and sod is the only way to go. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Townsend on January 07, 2009, 11:45:38 am Trash pick up?
Once a week you say? Fer it. Zoysia? Sounds like something served with Ouzo. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Wrinkle on January 07, 2009, 12:26:18 pm quote: Got any links to these test results at DEQ? Realtime link to the 3/sec samplings? The EPA also has jurisdiction, and does have BACT Tests results for the original tests which you suggest don't exist, along with all the letters written by Ogden-Martin seeking relief from further testing. Those were the ones which showed the thing being wildly out of compliance when it was first built. ...of course, depends on who's compliance standards one uses. DEQ is not the overriding jurisdiction here, and, I'd imagine, permitting by them is a State issue, not EPA. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: RecycleMichael on January 07, 2009, 03:15:28 pm What you say is just not true.
There are not examples of "depends on who's compliance standards one uses". There is a clear limit on every particulate. All the information can be accessed through DEQ records. I am not going to defend the trash-to-energy plant compliance record from over twenty years ago. The current operator is in compliance and if he burns something he shouldn't, it will show up. Each of the operators over the two decades have had incidents where the monitors showed exceedences and each time they wer slapped or fined. I think there is actually less chance of non-compliance because they are getting mostly commercial trash instead of residential trash and commercial trash is easier to track. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: Wrinkle on January 07, 2009, 10:37:28 pm quote: Still looking for a link. Perhaps you can help. Since this is now a private operation, a more pubic profile is needed. We have no idea what others have decided for us on this thing. I contend it's now a 'New Source' and should be treated as such. I think that would involve public notice and hearings to achieve startup, and what I called a 'BACT Test', which is really a _process_, not so much a test by itself. One of my biggest complaints about this plant is its' siting. Sure, it's in an industrial zone, but is upwind of the central city, making whatever it does put out blow directly over us. Without relocation, control is our only form of management. If they cannot achieve good results, the thing should not run. Title: Once a week trash pickup Post by: waterboy on January 08, 2009, 08:09:14 am Upwind? Central city? A more pubic profile?
The wind is generally from the south all summer long which means any fumes would be heading northward over Owen Park/Newblock Park. Northwest by any definition. It is predominantly North/Northeast the rest of the year which means it heads over West Tulsa and occasionally the 21st & Riverside area. Residents of these two areas can attest to when, where and under what conditions refinery, and trash burning fumes are detected. Rainy days with wind out of the West are always smelly. To me the worst of it is during the summer on the Northwest side because of the stillness and the heat. North winds usually blow stuff upwards and away. BTW, I'm against profiling of any type but particularly pubic profiling. |