The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081228_11_A1_Iosael120950

Citation data reveal the top ticketing spots
 
By CURTIS KILLMAN World Staff Writer
Published: 12/28/2008  

It doesn't take long for vehicles traveling north on South Memorial Drive from 61st Street to get moving. Cresting a small hill and urged along by a four-lane road with no stop lights for a mile, the 40 mph speed limit can come quick. Vehicles on that road travel at speeds that easily average 50 mph, said one woman who works on South Memorial Drive.

"I see excessive speed. I see drag racing," said the worker, who asked not to be identified. "They are coming down the hill and they just aren't watching their speed."

But someone is. A six-block stretch of South Memorial Drive between 51st and 61st streets ranks as the No. 2 spot for Tulsa police to write speeding tickets during a four-year period ending in May. The 2,321 speed-related tickets written in that area are among the 100,000-plus speeding citations written by Tulsa police in the last four years.

The No. 2 ranking for South Memorial Drive is among the findings in a Tulsa World analysis of traffic citation data made available to the public by Tulsa police as part of a federal racial discrimination lawsuit involving the Black Officers Coalition. The data, which dates to 2004, is maintained on the TPD Web site and includes information about thousands of citations issued by police, including the race and date of birth of those cited, as well as where the violation occurred. The analysis excludes speeding citations that resulted in an arrest.

But while that portion of Memorial Drive keeps police busy, anyone who has driven the Broken Arrow Expressway near downtown enough times has probably seen where police are the busiest. Nestled in the median between the 1300 and 1700 blocks of the expressway, police stake out the area and snare motorists exceeding the 55 mph speed limit. Over the past four years, the near-downtown stretch of the Broken Arrow Expressway ranks as the No. 1 area in the city for TPD speeding tickets, with 3,739 citations issued during the past four years.

TPD Officer Craig Murray said the World's findings were not a surprise. Murray, TPD's traffic safety coordinator, said the Broken Arrow Expressway near downtown has historically been a high-profile area for police to work. "When I rode motorcycles, it was always a favorite place that I liked to work," he said.

That area is the last straightaway for motorists going downtown. "It's just real easy for people to kind of get the lead foot as they progress in there," Murray said. "It tends to become a dangerous area."

Other findings in the World analysis:

Police wrote few citations in the north and west areas of the city.

White drivers received the most tickets.
 
Police wrote 291 speeding citations in one day in January 2007, a record for the four-year period examined by the World.

Arterial streets such as Memorial Drive and expressways log the most speeding tickets due to their high traffic volume and an excessive number of crashes, Murray said. In fact, studies by insurance companies have rated several segments of South Memorial Drive as ranking high in the number of vehicular crashes within the city, Murray said. "Memorial has always had a reputation for being a dangerous location just based on the traffic crashes anyway," Murray said.

Other top areas for citations are: 7300 to 7700 blocks of South Yale Avenue, 2,093 tickets; 10700 to 10900 blocks of East 11th Street, 1,937 tickets; and the 9000 to 9700 blocks of the Broken Arrow Expressway, 1,756 tickets.

Among north Tulsa streets, the 3800 to 4100 block of North Peoria Avenue, ranks as the No. 1 ticketed segment with 821 citations written in four years. In west Tulsa, the 700 block of West 71st Street logged 1,329 tickets, making it the No. 10 ranked area for citations. Fewer speeding tickets are written in north Tulsa in part because the area has ranked low in the number of vehicular crashes that typically occur, Murray said. "Traditionally north Tulsa they don't have the high crash rate like the rest of south and east Tulsa do," Murray said.

Among nonarterial streets, the 3300 block of South Irvington Avenue, just north of Interstate 44, ranks as No. 1 with 412 citations issued over the four-year period. Interstates 44 and 244 and the Creek Turnpike don't rank high on the TPD list of high ticket areas because enforcement along those highways is generally left to the Oklahoma Highway Patrol.

White, 19-year-old males, were cited the most often by police during the past four years, receiving 1,886 speeding tickets. Nineteen-year-olds received 4,155 speeding citations over the past four years, making them the most commonly ticketed age group. And, almost without exception, police wrote fewer tickets to age groups as they got older. Whites received 81,500, or 77 percent, of the speeding tickets issued during the past four years. Whites make up about two-thirds of the city of Tulsa population. Blacks were issued about 17 percent of the tickets and represent about 18 percent of the city population. Hispanics received 2 percent of the tickets and constitute about 12 percent of the city population.

Other speeding ticket numbers:

TPD wrote the most tickets on Tuesdays, when 23,366 citations were issued.

3,208 tickets were written on Sundays, the fewest during the week.

Males received 57 percent of tickets written by police.

TPD speeding ticket writing peaked in 2007 when 28,206 citations were issued, according to the TPD data examined by the World. Murray said it is hard to say why the number of citations written has declined this year. The number of tickets issued can decrease when department officer numbers decline, resulting in fewer patrols dedicated to traffic enforcement as remaining staff is shifted to other tasks, Murray said.

2,000 speeding tickets doesn't sound like too many to me. There has got to be over 200,000 licensed drivers in Tulsa so that means you have about a 1% chance of getting a ticket in a month or one ticket every eight or so years.

It is easy to not get a ticket. Slow down.

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Originally posted by RecycleMichael

The analysis excludes speeding citations that resulted in an arrest.

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Doesnt that sort of invalidate the purpose of the study, for profiling analysis?

If anything, it makes it look like TPD is skewing the numbers in their favor.

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Originally posted by patric

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Originally posted by RecycleMichael

The analysis excludes speeding citations that resulted in an arrest.

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Doesnt that sort of invalidate the purpose of the study, for profiling analysis?

If anything, it makes it look like TPD is skewing the numbers in their favor.

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The Tulsa World only used those numbers in their report. The numbers including arrests are available. www.tpdd.org does a pretty good job of breaking it down. However, if you wanna do it yourself, the raw data is available from the TPD website.

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Originally posted by MH2010

The Tulsa World only used those numbers in their report. The numbers including arrests are available. www.tpdd.org does a pretty good job of breaking it down. However, if you wanna do it yourself, the raw data is available from the TPD website.

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Thanks for the additional info.
In a related story, the Whirled reports on the latest "Tulsa catching up with OKC" effort:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081228_11_A1_Knight125958

Seems we were falling behind in revenue collection (or is the electric bill for junk streetlights just catching up?)

quote:

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Originally posted by patric

quote:

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Originally posted by MH2010

The Tulsa World only used those numbers in their report. The numbers including arrests are available. www.tpdd.org does a pretty good job of breaking it down. However, if you wanna do it yourself, the raw data is available from the TPD website.

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Thanks for the additional info.
In a related story, the Whirled reports on the latest "Tulsa catching up with OKC" effort:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081228_11_A1_Knight125958

Seems we were falling behind in revenue collection (or is the electric bill for junk streetlights just catching up?)

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IMHO, the citation fines are getting a little ridiculous.

I wish the police would write a few tickets for obstructing traffic.  I followed someone on Memorial southbound between 101st and 111th yesterday at 30 mph in a 50 zone. Traffic in the right lane was slow due to turns etc. This guy(?) was in the left (inside) lane, would not move over, and it was clear in front of him. I would have been OK with 40 due to traffic in the right lane.  The potential 48 seconds I lost are not the issue.  I was within 2 miles of home.  The disrespect for other drivers is what I find unacceptable.

I see in the Sunday World that Tulsa has become the number one city crime haven in all Oklahoma surpassing OC.  One could assume the increase in fines would be compensation for the new payment to the county for holding their prisoners.. .

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Originally posted by patric

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Originally posted by RecycleMichael

The analysis excludes speeding citations that resulted in an arrest.

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Doesnt that sort of invalidate the purpose of the study, for profiling analysis?

If anything, it makes it look like TPD is skewing the numbers in their favor.

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That is an extremely small number.

Oklahoma is part of the Violator Compact Act.  If you present a valid driver license from anyplace, the officer is required to cite you (as opposed to arresting you) and letting you go based on your promise to take care of the citation.  There are very few exceptions, so the number of people who actually go to jail that actually get booked for speeding is very small.

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Originally posted by Wilbur

the number of people who actually go to jail that actually get booked for speeding is very small.

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Yeeeeess, that might be factual, but doesnt that statement fail to include people arrested for ______ (fill in the blank) subsequent to the "speeding" stop?

I can't driiiiiiiive.... fifty fiiiiiiiive!
..or 60!
..or 65!
... or 70 really, and usually not 75. Oh well.

I adjust my speed per traffic, surrounding conditions, weather/visibility, road conditions, the condition of my car, odds of a speed trap being around, and the posted speed limit. If you know what you are doing, the posted speed limit is just one of many factors to take into consideration :)

Getting a ticket for 7 over still sucks, though... but not as bad as being harassed by police attempting to nab drunk drivers.

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Originally posted by inteller

dude, 101st to 111th is ****ED.  I want to ****ing tear down or turn off that SPirit event center light until they syncronize or put sensors on it.  Before that light, that stretch of road was NEVER backed up.

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When WalMart was at 91st, Memorial was usually OK south bound, south of 101st.  Then WalMart moved to 111th and traffic got bad. Then "they" put in the Spirit center light and, well now it can become impassable at times. All the left turn lanes south of 91st need to be longer.

The speed limit on the BA is absolute BS.

Its easy to write tickets there I'm sure. The Tulsa PD is a major contributor to the rampant docility problem that plagues the streets of Tulsa.

I plan to do a video documentary on this someday, comparing the streets of Dallas to Tulsa. I'll put it on Youtube, and it will be a riot!!

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Oh and beware of the motorcycle cops. If you see one, there are usually two or three more nearby. They hunt in packs, like wolves.

That area is the last straightaway for motorists going downtown. "It's just real easy for people to kind of get the lead foot as they progress in there," Murray said. "It tends to become a dangerous area."

Dangerous?? Ummmm I think that its a gold mine for them but I would think that Dangerous is overkill there...there are many more places in Tulsa that are maybe not as high traffic but are much more dangerous that the BA express way on a strait away.

Okay.  I guess we need this discussion again.  The police don't set speed limits.  Traffic engineers do, based on several factors.  I believe ODOT controls the speed limit on The BA.  Don't like the speed limit?  Complain to ODOT, not the police for enforcing the law.

I'm confident the number of wrecks along the curve of The BA near Lewis is the main factor in the lower speed limits (a whole 5 mph lower).  Knowing most folks are not getting stopped until 70 or higher, that would still be 10 over the limit on the rest of the road out 'till Memorial.  C'mon!

I am convinced that "traffic engineers" set speed limits for the least competent driver with the worst maintained vehicle that can still move in slippery weather other than ice.

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Originally posted by Wilbur

Okay.  I guess we need this discussion again.  The police don't set speed limits.  Traffic engineers do, based on several factors.  I believe ODOT controls the speed limit on The BA.  Don't like the speed limit?  Complain to ODOT, not the police for enforcing the law.

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I doubt the 85th percentile speed at that location is 55mph.

That story tells me that the speed limit is set too low, if 90% of the cars go above the posted limit it's time to raise the speedlimit. Who kidding who, the speed limit is really just a way to get more money for the city coffers, just like seat belt laws and helmet laws. I wish the cops would spend the time they spend clocking cars working to fight crime and patrol for house break-ins. It's a big waste of manpower to write tickets when there is so much crime. Tulsa needs to get it's priorities in order.[xx(]

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Originally posted by sauerkraut

That story tells me that the speed limit is set too low, if 90% of the cars go above the posted limit it's time to raise the speedlimit. Who kidding who, the speed limit is really just a way to get more money for the city coffers, just like seat belt laws and helmet laws. I wish the cops would spend the time they spend clocking cars working to fight crime and patrol for house break-ins. It's a big waste of manpower to write tickets when there is so much crime. Tulsa needs to get it's priorities in order.[xx(]

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[8)]

You worry about Columbus, us real residents will worry about Tulsa.

[8D]

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Originally posted by sauerkraut

That story tells me that the speed limit is set too low, if 90% of the cars go above the posted limit it's time to raise the speedlimit. Who kidding who, the speed limit is really just a way to get more money for the city coffers, just like seat belt laws and helmet laws. I wish the cops would spend the time they spend clocking cars working to fight crime and patrol for house break-ins. It's a big waste of manpower to write tickets when there is so much crime. Tulsa needs to get it's priorities in order.[xx(]

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Here we go again:

17,000 murders every year in the US.
43,000 traffic fatalities every year in the US.

Dead is dead.

I think it would be unacceptable to most drivers to set the speed limit low enough to prevent all fatalities.  Sudden stops, usually caused by poor driving, kill.  High speed in itself does not. At least speeds up to about 25,000 mph do not. (Approximate escape velocity from earth to go to the moon.)

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Originally posted by Wilbur
[

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Here we go again:

17,000 murders every year in the US.
43,000 traffic fatalities every year in the US.

Dead is dead.
[/quote]

If I recall right, NHTSA statistics say that roughly 60% of fatalities involve alcohol and another 30% involve speeding.  So it seems perfectly reasonable to devote law enforcement man hours to reducing both.  Of course, they could simply combine both under the category "stupid."

That wouldn't be necessary here in Oklahoma, where all drivers are above average.  (With apologies to Garrison Keillor.  I stole it from him.)

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Originally posted by Ed W

quote:

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Originally posted by Wilbur
[

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Here we go again:

17,000 murders every year in the US.
43,000 traffic fatalities every year in the US.

Dead is dead.

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If I recall right, NHTSA statistics say that roughly 60% of fatalities involve alcohol and another 30% involve speeding.  So it seems perfectly reasonable to devote law enforcement man hours to reducing both.  Of course, they could simply combine both under the category "stupid."
[/quote]
And both of those statistics are utterly useless. The 'involves alcohol' does not equate to 'drunk drivers,' and 'involves speeding' does not mean that the crash would not have occurred if the drivers involved had been driving the speed limit.

For more cherry picked statistics, re-visit the statistics used to "prove" that the infamous 55 MPH speed limit saved lives.  Much of those statistics involved roads that were never marked over 55 MPH, even before the 55 MPH national embarrassment.

47% of all statistics are made up on the spot

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Originally posted by inteller

quote:

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Originally posted by Wilbur

Okay.  I guess we need this discussion again.  The police don't set speed limits.  Traffic engineers do, based on several factors.  I believe ODOT controls the speed limit on The BA.  Don't like the speed limit?  Complain to ODOT, not the police for enforcing the law.

I'm confident the number of wrecks along the curve of The BA near Lewis is the main factor in the lower speed limits (a whole 5 mph lower).  Knowing most folks are not getting stopped until 70 or higher, that would still be 10 over the limit on the rest of the road out 'till Memorial.  C'mon!

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So its 55 because stupid people can't negotiate a curve?  A curve that is less dangerous than the east bound curve at Sheridan that has a higher speed limit?

Sounds like the traffic engineers need to review that stretch of road.

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I know that curve at Sheridan is unbelievable.  You can see how many cars have hit the retaining wall.