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Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: RecycleMichael on December 14, 2008, 11:14:36 am http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081214_16_A18_Aftert841559
Consultant: Tulsans want hipper, livelier city Ideas came from 1,200 people who participated in three planning workshops and created 120 maps. By KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer After three citywide planning workshops, Tulsans' dreams for the future remain fuzzy. But their vision is clear: Younger. Hipper. Livelier. Or so says John Fregonese, the consultant for the city's comprehensive plan update project, PLANiTULSA. "What we got out of that (the citywide workshops) is a pretty different view of Tulsa than the forecast we've seen for Tulsa," Fregonese said. "In fact, what was put on the maps is in many cases illegal; in fact, most of it is illegal, most of it is not permitted, let alone not planned for and not anticipated and not desired." Fregonese of Fregonese Associates of Portland, Ore., wasn't trying to stir things up. He was simply drawing conclusions from the 120 maps created by the 1,200 people who participated in the workshops, which were held earlier this year. Where official projections of housing growth have consisted of high-rise developments downtown, subdivisions on vacant land and little else, Fregonese said, the workshop results reflect a desire for a variety of developments, many of which would be infill projects. "The kind of development you've seen in other cities that are Tulsa's size that have a lot of infill include multistory, mixed-use (projects), main streets, restaurants a lot of small shops instead of big malls," Fregonese said. Many Tulsans "aren't happy with the way things are and they think it would be really cool to have some new stuff." The projects envisioned were for all of Tulsa, with a concentration around the University of Tulsa, north and south on Peoria, and around the Eastland Mall, Fregonese said. Participants in the workshops did not envision a lot of change for south Tulsa. "In the newer parts of Tulsa, I think, people, and wisely so, figure there's not a lot that's going to happen there," Fregonese said. A shift in where people live and work will, of course, affect how they get around. Fregonese said his company, taking its cue from the workshop results, has begun to design a comprehensive transportation system that would go beyond fixing streets and constructing a light-rail system to the suburbs. The idea, Fregonese said, is to create "frequent transit corridors" using a variety of transportation modes, from street cars to bus-rapid transit to light rail, with paths for cyclists and pedestrians. "For example, you'd walk down to Peoria (Avenue) from north to south Tulsa and the bus would be running up and down Peoria intersecting with other transit," Fregonese said. "And it would be coming every 10 minutes; you don't have a schedule, you just walk out and grab it." When it comes to jobs, Fregonese said he's seen no clamoring for a radical shift in the types of work Tulsans do. But that doesn't mean the city can't do more to help. "One in five people in Tulsa is self-employed, and they make more than the average person in Tulsa," Fregonese said. " I think there are a lot of ways the city can make being in a small business easier, from the kind of zoning to live-work housing." Last week, PLANiTULSA held two small-area workshops to give citizens a chance to provide specifics to the overall vision developed in the citywide workshops. Another six small-area workshops are planned for early next year. By April, Fregonese hopes to present four development scenarios for the public's consideration. The objective, he said, is to choose a scenario, or, more likely, take parts of each scenario, to come up with a consensus about the city's future. Fregonese called it the most important part of the process. "People will embrace a concept in general, say: 'I'm all for it, but not here,' " he said. "I think working out those details is part of the longer-range conversation that needs to go on between now and adoption of the plan." PLANiTULSA in 2009 The city of Tulsa is updating its comprehensive plan, which provides guidelines for the physical development of the city. The plan covers land use, transportation and infrastructure. As part of the process, PLANiTULSA officials have held three citywide workshops and two small-area workshops. Six more small-area workshops are planned for early 2009. In April, city officials will present four development scenarios for the public's consideration. Residents can choose one scenario, or pick and choose aspects from all four. City officials plan to have the new comprehensive plan adopted by the end of next year. The existing comprehensive plan was originally approved about 30 years ago. To get more information about PLANiTULSA, go to tulsaworld.com/planitulsa or call (918) 576-5684. Hipper and livelier? Is it even possible to be any more hip and lively than Tulsa already is? (sarcasm off) I always thought that Tulsa nightlife was an oxymoron...kinda like jumbo shrimp and happily married. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: Ed W on December 14, 2008, 12:12:51 pm Michael,
Is it possible that this analysis of the raw data is open to personal interpretation? In other words, the data is nebulous and the person looking at it sees what he wants to see. As for Tulsa being 'hipper', um, does that mean we'd all have to wear those silly capri-pants-for-men? I'm willing to do my part for civic pride and all, but I do have to draw the line somewhere. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: RecycleMichael on December 14, 2008, 01:48:05 pm As a well-known expert on hipness...I believe you are right.
Capri pants? Do they go well my collection of super skinny ties? Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: Ed W on December 14, 2008, 02:54:48 pm Here ya go, Michael:
(http://www.swrvecycling.com/images/knickers/mens/mcottonknickers/lsmenkcobl.jpg) Note that he also has the de riguer hipster accessory - a single speed bicycle - though your die-hard hipster wouldn't have anything other than a brakeless fixed gear, tastefully color-coordinated, of course: (http://www.individualsole.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/stussy-slamjam-fixed-gear-2.jpg) Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: RecycleMichael on December 14, 2008, 03:37:04 pm Is that real gold?
Wow. I want one. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: TURobY on December 14, 2008, 04:11:32 pm quote: Why would no one in extreme south Tulsa have the time to nominate their area? After all, you seem to have plenty of time to post on both this forum and others. Besides, I thought that they were still having more small-area workshops. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: Red Arrow on December 14, 2008, 05:15:37 pm quote: Vote for change... don't be a slave to fashion.[:)] Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: TheArtist on December 14, 2008, 05:26:58 pm I can only speak for the table at the BOK Center workshop I went to. But every single person there lived further south than me, 41st and Yale. 1 lady was from a suburb, one lived in the country just outside Tulsa but works here, 2 young girls were from a high school in South Tulsa, and the other guy was from South Tulsa as well. I kept trying to get them to pay attention to other areas of the city, like east and south, and not just downtown and north Tulsa lol. Otherwise just about every single sticker would have been in that area and in West Tulsa. I actually had heated arguments, seriously heated, If we had raised our voices any more we would have drawn attention and gotten thrown out lol, with the south Tulsa guy about what could be done in south Tulsa. He was adamant that things be done in downtown and north Tulsa and that you couldnt do anything in south Tulsa. Bout wanted to wring his neck lol. Regardless, most of the maps by far focused on downtown, some parts of north and west Tulsa, and amazingly there seemed to be a lot of interest in getting something done in far east Tulsa around the 21st area.
And yes, most people it seemed echoed something similar to the "hipper and livelier" theme. Young, old, well off, average, north, south east and west Tulsans. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: sgrizzle on December 14, 2008, 05:28:50 pm They held the workshops downtown, where basically no-one lives. Ii doubt that skews results too much. The only way it was skewed is towards willing to get off their butts to provide worthwhile input instead of just complaining on the internet or at the TV.
Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: sgrizzle on December 15, 2008, 01:32:00 pm quote: I know plenty of South Tulsans (myself included) who made almost no changes in South Tulsa. I followed Double A's example and did it twice even. The majority of South Tulsa does not need the kind of major changes we were making in North, West and East Tulsa. There was no sticker for "low density residential nimby buffer zone" Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: OurTulsa on December 15, 2008, 01:32:56 pm Maybe Artist and I are the exceptions, but I too participated in two sessions (once as a participant and once as a moderator) in which both times S. Tulsans (So41sters) outnumbered all others. One table had 9 participants the other had 7. I'm just sayin...
Both of my tables wanted what Frego pointed out. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: dsjeffries on December 15, 2008, 02:25:18 pm My & TURobY's table had people from all over the city, of varying backgrounds and ethnicities, even a Tulsa newbie, and they all wanted what Fregonese has pointed out.
Uninteller, did you actually attend the workshops? (DVRing TGOV and yelling at the television doesn't count) Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: Chicken Little on December 15, 2008, 02:47:42 pm quote:[}:)] Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: TheArtist on December 15, 2008, 04:12:37 pm quote: HA! [}:)] Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: Double A on December 15, 2008, 06:48:51 pm quote: Bingo! I think we have a winner. Any word on whether or not there will be a small area workshop focusing on the land currently occupied by the refineries? Hell, are there any specifics(other than the dates listed the PlaniTulsa calendar on their website) for any of these other small area workshops, yet? Whatever happened to the Transit workshop? I haven't heard much of anything about that since the city wide workshops. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: sgrizzle on December 16, 2008, 07:23:09 am I believe the refinery land was considered out-of-scope due to the fact the refineries were immobile.
Of course, now it looks like the Sunoco refinery is going to shut down... Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: sgrizzle on December 16, 2008, 09:48:19 am quote: You can't hide what you didn't gather. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: Hoss on December 16, 2008, 09:53:27 am quote: Let's not let facts get in the way of that now! [:O] Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: grahambino on December 16, 2008, 10:35:16 am quote: my table: South Tulsa, an affluent, advanced degree holding white male, aged 60 North Tulsa - native american or latino woman, maybe 35-45, homemaker. East Tulsa - a husband & wife, white. I think he was a minister. They were around 60-65. Midtown (x2) - a 29 year old (me) another was around 32 or 33. Both of us have college degrees, both white. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: sgrizzle on December 16, 2008, 01:14:51 pm quote: I don't remember filling out 32/Male/Caucasian on anything during the workshops. I didn't even give my name or address for one of the times I did a map. What demographics are they using? Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: Double A on December 16, 2008, 07:02:02 pm quote: Following that logic, PlaniTulsa shouldn't be claiming that the workshop participants were diverse from across all parts of the city, either. I mean, you can't show what you didn't gather, but let's not let facts get in the way of that now. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: sgrizzle on December 17, 2008, 10:22:04 am quote: C'mon, not even a chuckle for that? Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: carltonplace on December 17, 2008, 11:09:31 am ^ I drew that in with my green marker and then circled inteller's house.
Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: Red Arrow on December 17, 2008, 03:20:38 pm quote: How can you guide people to the politically correct solution if you allow other choices? Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: TURobY on December 17, 2008, 03:32:53 pm quote: You mean options such as "Large Lot Residential" and "Single-Family Housing Subdivisions"? Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: RecycleMichael on December 17, 2008, 03:48:36 pm I missed the three big city-wide meetings, but did attend one of the small area workshops. I was at one of the four tables that participated.
They allowed us to turn the colored paper pieces over and write whatever we wanted. We came up with a light rail/urban trolley/ commuter shuttle station to be part of our New EastLand Event Center. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: Red Arrow on December 17, 2008, 04:26:40 pm quote: They are obviously not popular choices with the "in-crowd", especially for downtown and midtown infill, but they are options. I have been taught that during brainstorming sessions that no idea should be immediately rejected. Another idea may spring from it. Rejecting unfit ideas is for later sessions. Having an area of large lots (approx 1 acre) in outlying areas within city limits could have caused some of the 4 to 5 house per acre developments to have been in town in-fill instead. Then maybe the S.E. Tulsa traffic problem would not exist (by a factor of at least 1/2). The multitude of 2 lane streets would be sufficient as they were 30 years ago. Downtown and mid-town would be more dense. Suburban areas would be in denser nodes along a few arterials rather than along all of them as now exists. An effective public transit system from the suburbs would be more possible. The dozens of areas of big-box stores could not be supported by the low density housing. I am not saying that this would have been the result only by requiring big lots. I am saying that by immediately rejecting big lots that you have guaranteed that it could not happen. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: TURobY on December 17, 2008, 05:40:23 pm quote: No, I was saying that they were available options in the planning meetings. Our table actually utilized them in areas of South Tulsa and East Tulsa, understanding that people who originally moved to those areas wanted that type of development. "Large Lot Residential" and "Single-Family Housing Subdivisions" options existed and were utilized in the planning meetings. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: Red Arrow on December 17, 2008, 06:16:13 pm quote: I misunderstood their availability. I guess I missed something somewhere. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: TheArtist on December 18, 2008, 08:51:06 am We had large lot, single residential etc. in our packet. They were used mostly in empty areas of East Tulsa, North Tulsa and some in West Tulsa. Though we did trade a few of those for more dense development types. I guess most of us figured South Tulsa was doing ok in that department already lol. One of our thoughts was to encourage "urban village" type development nodes in North Tulsa and East Tulsa, and around those the lower density housing. With the hope that both types would reinforce the other, and that future infill and redevelopment would spread outward from those nodes.
Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: tshane250 on December 23, 2008, 01:59:55 pm At this link (http://"http://www.planitulsa.org/node/78") you will find demographic data collected from the survey that was administered last summer. I am not aware of any demographics collected at the city-wide meetings and cannot remember if they asked those types of questions when registering for the meetings.
Also of note, it is not economically feasible to make this process truly representative of Tulsa. If people are unwilling or able to make it to these meetings, then their opinions cannot be taken. Whether you consider that good or bad, it's just the way it is. Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: Double A on December 28, 2008, 02:51:51 pm Gloucester Green (http://"http://enr.construction.com/news/buildings/archives/031117.asp")
Title: Hipper and Livelier? Post by: Rico on January 22, 2009, 06:08:33 pm quote: Sho nuff tis... And I hope this fella Aleisfer Crowley (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hlx0YabL7WI") has intentions of keeping it that way..! http://www.4shared.com/file/82001350/d20da590/2008-11-26_CIP_only_-_downtown_INSERT.html http://www.4shared.com/file/82001369/80fc4ef7/2008-11-26_Transportation_Plan_INSERT.html http://www.4shared.com/file/82001384/60ce1fc4/Downtown_Urban_Gateways_2_INSERT.html http://www.4shared.com/file/82001357/4c693033/2008-11-26_Devt_Opprt_downtown_INSERT.html http://www.4shared.com/file/82001075/92178dc4/2008-11-24_Open_Space__Recreation_INSERT.html http://www.4shared.com/file/82000844/7892d84c/2008-11-24_Historic_Resources_data_downtown_INSERT.html http://www.4shared.com/file/82001388/697853ef/General_Scenarios_Project_Relationship_INSERT.html |