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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: mrB on October 27, 2008, 01:50:37 pm



Title: Brookside
Post by: mrB on October 27, 2008, 01:50:37 pm


Billy Sims is moving into the neighborhood at 38th & Peoria. East side, north end of the Brookside Market. Opposite end of strip from Webers'. Gonna have drive thru Q!

Billy & Elmer, is the Restless Ribbon ready for a Q show down?



And center 1 has new tenant going in to new unfinished space on the corner of 34th & Peoria, "Pohlenz Cucine Moderne".

Looks like center 1 is just getting longer and whiter! Maybe the brick could have been left alone and given the businesses an individualized character about them. center 1 could be center 13.
quote:

For the record
By World Staff Reports
10/26/2008

Commercial Building Permits

(Listed by owner, tenant or building name. Weekly update lists new commercial construction, expansions and enlargements of more than $50,000. Information is from initial applications and is subject to change. Dollar amount is valuation declared by owner.)

Pohlenz Cucine Moderne LLC, 3402 S. Peoria Ave., interior alteration- interior finish, $70,000.

Scott Pohlenz’s Summary
In December 2008, I am opening my Tulsa, Oklahoma showroom and design studio "Pohlenz Cucine Moderne". We are an exclusive dealer for "Valcucine" in Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas and Arkansas. Valcucine is an Italian kitchen cabinet manufacturer who is commited to sustainable design and dematerialization.

Through our design studio, we offer design resource services to Architects, Interior Designers, Contractors, and End Users.

Scott Pohlenz’s Specialties:
Licensed Architect
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/scott/pohlenz
http://www.center1tulsa.com/



Title: Brookside
Post by: jmikeh on October 27, 2008, 02:06:03 pm
That will be interesting.

It's not bar-b-que.  It's boomer-que!


Title: Brookside
Post by: Ibanez on October 27, 2008, 02:10:12 pm
I've eaten at the Billy Simms location in The Farm twice.

The food was average at best.

I will not be going back.


Title: Brookside
Post by: joiei on October 27, 2008, 04:38:43 pm
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka

I've eaten at the Billy Simms location in The Farm twice.

The food was average at best.

I will not be going back.

I had the same experience.  It just isn't good bbq.  At least as I like bbq.  Others may love and God bless ya, you can have my share of the Billy Sims version.


Title: Brookside
Post by: sgrizzle on October 27, 2008, 05:24:33 pm
I've had it. I really dont know what Billy Sim is famous for, but obviously it;s not culinary talent.

It's not bad but not amazing either.


Title: Brookside
Post by: jmikeh on October 28, 2008, 08:49:15 am
I am hoping JR's Place comes to to T-Town eventually.  I have heard amazing things about his BBQ restaurants in the OKC area.



Title: Brookside
Post by: Renaissance on October 28, 2008, 09:16:32 am
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

I've had it. I really dont know what Billy Sim is famous for, but obviously it's not culinary talent.



So you're not a Sooner . . .

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3253/2745465740_e35213cacc.jpg)

Billy Sims is one of OU's four Heisman winners and one of the great rushers in college football history.  And one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet.  Most Saturday gamedays in Norman he drives down Lindsay with the windows down and gives the Boomer Sooner to the tailgaters.  

On Topic:
His BBQ is no Elmer's but it is serviceable.  It will a nice addition to Brookside.


Title: Brookside
Post by: Steve on October 28, 2008, 10:06:48 am
Yea, being a great football player doesn't mean your restaurant is going to have great food!

I only crave BBQ about once a year; I really have to be in the mood for it.  When I am, 99.9% of the time I end up at the old Knotty Pine on Charles Page in west Tulsa.  The ambience may be lacking, but for my money and personal taste, it is the best in town.



Title: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on October 28, 2008, 02:23:49 pm
Wasn't there once a yogurt shop there?  I don't particularly like that strip mall there but it at least it's well-kept and full.  I'd rather see something like the building next to it to the north of 38th where the salon and Fuji reside that fronts the street.  Really want to see that Blockbuster go at 36th for the same reason.


Title: Brookside
Post by: YoungTulsan on October 28, 2008, 02:29:40 pm
Video rental stores are a dying breed.  Blockbusters have been thinning out rapidly, however that one is probably doing well due to all of its competition going out of business.  Maybe it'll be gone in a few more years.

The old Hollywood video is sitting empty still, on the subject of brookside.  So is the Delta Cafe.  There were rumors of something opening there, but it has been a long time now.

I think Brookside could use a nice gym.

But then again, whenever the subject of Brookside business comes up, I always stress the need to add more PEOPLE to brookside first, or else shops/restaurants will keep opening/closing without true critical mass, only a "trendy" appeal.


Title: Brookside
Post by: charky on October 28, 2008, 04:07:17 pm
Yeah...Billy Sims BBQ is pretty average. I've tried it a couple of times...and probably won't go back.

Did have a great experience though at the location in the Farm not long after it opened. Took my wife and mother-in-law...and Billy was there wiping down the tables. He introduced himself...asked all of our names and had a nice 5-10 minute conversation. One hell of a nice guy.


Title: Brookside
Post by: OurTulsa on October 29, 2008, 12:46:48 pm
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Video rental stores are a dying breed.  Blockbusters have been thinning out rapidly, however that one is probably doing well due to all of its competition going out of business.  Maybe it'll be gone in a few more years.

The old Hollywood video is sitting empty still, on the subject of brookside.  So is the Delta Cafe.  There were rumors of something opening there, but it has been a long time now.

I think Brookside could use a nice gym.

But then again, whenever the subject of Brookside business comes up, I always stress the need to add more PEOPLE to brookside first, or else shops/restaurants will keep opening/closing without true critical mass, only a "trendy" appeal.




Don't say that too loudly, there are some in the Brookside neighborhood that will want to wring you out.  They like Brookside as a neighborhood commercial district as opposed to a regional commercial district.

I've heard rumors that a fitness center is pursuing the old Hollywood Video space.  Like most rumors, we'll see.  What's wrong with Fitso besides the fact that it has little to no street presence in the district.  That aside, it's a nice Gym.


Title: Brookside
Post by: YoungTulsan on October 29, 2008, 02:42:01 pm
No I agree that Brookside is best as a haven for LOCAL business.  But local businesses can get into the urban dense scene, if the critical mass is there.  Sitting idly by while outside groups like Bomasada come in and build the density is not the answer.  Local builders, pounce on it.

When, as I've described it, desirability is high but quality of dwellings is low to such an extreme that single 20-somethings are paying $800-1000/month to rent 1950s construction rotten huts with little modern amenities, the market forces are there.  At the same time, renters without families are killing the population density because thats all there is available right now.  One renter occupying an entire house does not equal density.  New, modern, upper-mid-range priced (Not necessarily super rich) apartment/condo dwellings are needed by the bushel in Brookside.  Bomasada is meeting the need, but they will be sending $$ out of Tulsa.



Title: Brookside
Post by: Nik on October 30, 2008, 07:03:59 am
quote:

I think Brookside could use a nice gym.



What's wrong with Fitso? There is also the Yoga Room.


Title: Brookside
Post by: bugo on November 04, 2008, 12:09:28 am
quote:
Originally posted by mrB



Billy Sims is moving into the neighborhood at 38th & Peoria. East side, north end of the Brookside Market. Opposite end of strip from Webers'. Gonna have drive thru Q!

Billy & Elmer, is the Restless Ribbon ready for a Q show down?



I can't think of any reason to go to Billy Sims when Elmer's is just down the road.


Title: Brookside
Post by: joiei on November 04, 2008, 07:07:42 am
Unless Billy Sims has improved there product it will not be a showdown.  It be Bad has it all over the football player.


Title: Brookside
Post by: stageidea on November 04, 2008, 12:16:49 pm
So is Billy Sims going to be the new Rib Crib? Just average food with a massive amount of locations?  

I am not personal fan of their BBQ and so I don't see the need or a reason of why they are expanding so quickly.  

I personally enjoy Stutts House of Barbeque#8206; (stuttshouseofbarbeque.com).


Title: Brookside
Post by: bugo on November 07, 2008, 08:29:29 pm
quote:
Originally posted by stageidea

So is Billy Sims going to be the new Rib Crib? Just average food with a massive amount of locations?  

I am not personal fan of their BBQ and so I don't see the need or a reason of why they are expanding so quickly.  
quote:


OU fans who care more about supporting one of their heroes than the quality of the Q.  The meat at Sims is OK, but the sauce wasn't very good IMO.  I don't like sauces that are overly sweet.  I'm going to be working next to a Billy Sims very soon, so I plan on ordering their sandwiches plain and dry and pouring some Gates (www.gatesbbq.com) sauce on it.




I personally enjoy Stutts House of Barbeque#8206; (stuttshouseofbarbeque.com).



What's the Q like?  What kind of sauce do they use?  How sweet/spicy is it, and is it tomato based or molasses based?  The prices are definitely reasonable.  I'm interested in trying it next time I'm in that area.

Are the "rib tips" anything like Kansas City-style burnt ends?


Title: Brookside
Post by: joiei on November 07, 2008, 09:13:21 pm
I just had BBQ that beat the heck out of Sims.  It is Buffalo BBQ up in Sperry, it is the trailer in the Daylight Doughnut parking lot.  Excellent stuff.  The half order was shared 3 ways.  Worth the drive, yes.  I had ribs, sliced and hotlinks.  Good beans and homemade slaw.  It isn't a restaurant although there is a picnic table there.  It is only open Mon-Fri for lunch and dinner.  On weekends, the owner is usually off competing at a bbq cookoff somewhere.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on March 02, 2011, 08:42:27 am
Video rental stores are a dying breed.  Blockbusters have been thinning out rapidly, however that one is probably doing well due to all of its competition going out of business.  Maybe it'll be gone in a few more years.

Good call.  I noticed yesterday that the Blockbuster at 36th & Peoria is going out of business and everything in the store is now on sale.  That is a prime corner in Brookside, I wonder what will take its place?  I'm sure Aberson (developer of the Consortium and Center 1) is interested, and whatever they do I hope they raze the Blockbuster and build up to the sidewalk.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Townsend on March 02, 2011, 09:08:31 am
Good call.  I noticed yesterday that the Blockbuster at 36th & Peoria is going out of business and everything in the store is now on sale.  That is a prime corner in Brookside, I wonder what will take its place?  I'm sure Aberson (developer of the Consortium and Center 1) is interested, and whatever they do I hope they raze the Blockbuster and build up to the sidewalk.

CVS?  Shut my mouth.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: swake on March 02, 2011, 09:34:48 am
CVS?  Shut my mouth.

A small hotel?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Townsend on March 02, 2011, 09:55:18 am
A small hotel?

Well that'd be much better.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: OurTulsa on March 02, 2011, 12:41:29 pm
Oh Crap - that's a prime corner for a CVS and they will kick that bastad back quick - oh, the horror! 

On the flip side, what an opportunity site!  Development there has the ability extend the urban context of Brookside to the south.  If done well an 'end cap so to speak' could really help emphasize the 'there or place' element of Brookside - really reinforce Brookside as both a neighborhood commercial node and a small regional destination.  Unfortunately, our City hasn't had the capacity or the initiative to be proactive with development outcomes - maybe that could change with an on-coming planning director but that may be too late.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: YoungTulsan on March 02, 2011, 01:34:52 pm
I don't think the lot is big enough for a CVS, thank god.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Townsend on March 02, 2011, 01:46:17 pm
I don't think the lot is big enough for a CVS, thank god.

Those houses to the East look pretty vulnerable.  I'm hoping for better though.  I'm sure the condo owners behind Starbucks are too.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on March 02, 2011, 01:56:34 pm
On the flip side, what an opportunity site!  Development there has the ability extend the urban context of Brookside to the south.  If done well an 'end cap so to speak' could really help emphasize the 'there or place' element of Brookside - really reinforce Brookside as both a neighborhood commercial node and a small regional destination.  Unfortunately, our City hasn't had the capacity or the initiative to be proactive with development outcomes - maybe that could change with an on-coming planning director but that may be too late.

Agree.  Though I think Brookside has enough pull to not allow CVS, or to at least make them build to the sidewalk.  I'm hoping Aberson redevelops that site.  I know some dislike Center 1 aka "the white district" but I love how they front the sidewalk with big windows and how they are full of local businesses.  Aberson has said he wants to reinforce Brookside as a locally-owned business district.  Retail and/or a new restaurant with patio seating would be a big improvement at that corner.  I'd also like to see the parallel street parking extended south past 35th Pl and the left turn lanes eliminated on Peoria which would make that area more pedestrian-friendly than it is now.

The yellow is the Blockbuster, which would be demolished, and the red is the new building fronting the sidewalk with glass along Peoria and 36th.  The blue is an infill building on the small parking lot south of Starbucks that would be perfect for a restaurant with outdoor seating as it sits back further from the street like the adjacent Pei Wei/Starbucks.  The streetscape with the trees next to the parallel parking areas would also be extended to 36th.  All parking would be behind the buildings with access off 35th Pl and 36th St.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/brookside1.jpg)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Renaissance on March 29, 2011, 04:15:41 pm
Jerry Reeves has the Blockbuster site under contract pending rejection of the lease in bankruptcy proceedings.  Sounds like the site will be renovated for multiple retail tenants.

Link: http://tulsabusiness.com/main.asp?SectionID=24&SubSectionID=90&ArticleID=52485


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Quinton on March 29, 2011, 07:49:59 pm
So is Billy Sims going to be the new Rib Crib? Just average food with a massive amount of locations?  

I am not personal fan of their BBQ and so I don't see the need or a reason of why they are expanding so quickly.  

I personally enjoy Stutts House of Barbeque#8206; (stuttshouseofbarbeque.com).

Stutts has been great for years.Went there a week ago.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: guido911 on March 29, 2011, 08:51:53 pm
Stutts has been great for years.Went there a week ago.
Their menu looks fairly simple. And simple is terrific.

http://www.stuttshouseofbarbeque.com/menu.htm

As a victim of his crap, do ya think this post will pass our self-appointed policeman's content test?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Hoss on March 29, 2011, 11:02:41 pm
Their menu looks fairly simple. And simple is terrific.

http://www.stuttshouseofbarbeque.com/menu.htm

As a victim of his crap, do ya think this post will pass our self-appointed policeman's content test?

Case in point...


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: RecycleMichael on March 30, 2011, 06:42:16 am
What is guido complaining about? Has he turned in shadows?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Red Arrow on March 30, 2011, 07:03:59 am
What is guido complaining about? Has he turned in shadows?

Is being incomprehensible against TNF rules?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Hoss on March 30, 2011, 07:09:27 am
Is being incomprehensible against TNF rules?

Are you agreeing with that assessment?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Red Arrow on March 30, 2011, 07:11:24 am
Are you agreeing with that assessment?

That he is frequently incomprehensible, yes.

That it should be against TNF rules and cause for expulsion, NO!


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Hoss on March 30, 2011, 07:26:51 am
That he is frequently incomprehensible, yes.

That it should be against TNF rules and cause for expulsion, NO!

Which one?  Shadows?  Gweed?  Both?

And I agree, it shouldn't be grounds for expulsion unless rules are broken again and again (personal attacks maybe?  I know Shadows doesn't call forum members that don't align with his ideology 'dooshes').


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: carltonplace on March 30, 2011, 07:33:57 am
Still trying to decipher his posts, not sure if that is possible to align with his ideology


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: custosnox on March 30, 2011, 07:37:58 am
Which one?  Shadows?  Gweed?  Both?

And I agree, it shouldn't be grounds for expulsion unless rules are broken again and again (personal attacks maybe?  I know Shadows doesn't call forum members that don't align with his ideology 'dooshes').
Of course there is the benifit of if you don't lower yourself to his 3rd grade level of name calling, and keep making points that he does not wish to acknowledge, he will start ignoring you all together. 


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Hoss on March 30, 2011, 07:47:10 am
Of course there is the benifit of if you don't lower yourself to his 3rd grade level of name calling, and keep making points that he does not wish to acknowledge, he will start ignoring you all together. 

He already ignores me...well, sort of.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on March 30, 2011, 08:09:18 am
Jerry Reeves has the Blockbuster site under contract pending rejection of the lease in bankruptcy proceedings.  Sounds like the site will be renovated for multiple retail tenants.

Link: http://tulsabusiness.com/main.asp?SectionID=24&SubSectionID=90&ArticleID=52485

Sounds like they are keeping the building and subdividing it.   :(

I was hoping Aberson would buy that property, tear down the Blockbuster, and build something like Center 1 that fronts the street.  Does the Brookside Master Plan mean anything to developers???


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: custosnox on March 30, 2011, 08:24:26 am
He already ignores me...well, sort of.
My point.  I have joined you on that list as well, it seems.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Conan71 on March 30, 2011, 08:39:51 am
Sounds like they are keeping the building and subdividing it.   :(

I was hoping Aberson would buy that property, tear down the Blockbuster, and build something like Center 1 that fronts the street.  Does the Brookside Master Plan mean anything to developers???

I don't think Aberson has that kind of grip.  FAIK, he's just a tenant and he doesn't own the Consortium or whatever it's called now.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on March 30, 2011, 08:51:12 am
I don't think Aberson has that kind of grip.  FAIK, he's just a tenant and he doesn't own the Consortium or whatever it's called now.

I thought he developed Center 1?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/printerfriendlystory.aspx?articleid=070710_238_E1_hCent46672 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/printerfriendlystory.aspx?articleid=070710_238_E1_hCent46672)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: BKDotCom on March 30, 2011, 09:51:39 am
I thought he developed Center 1?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/printerfriendlystory.aspx?articleid=070710_238_E1_hCent46672 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/printerfriendlystory.aspx?articleid=070710_238_E1_hCent46672)

Well, he's no Bumgarner!   ;)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Conan71 on March 30, 2011, 10:01:40 am
I thought he developed Center 1?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/printerfriendlystory.aspx?articleid=070710_238_E1_hCent46672 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/printerfriendlystory.aspx?articleid=070710_238_E1_hCent46672)

I'll be damned, had no idea. My bad.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on March 30, 2011, 02:18:24 pm
Center 1 and the Consortium are fully occupied by local businesses which is what Aberson wants.  Jerry Reeves developed the Pei Wei/Starbucks building, and whatever he does at Blockbuster will probably involve chains.  Aberson would see to it that the building is torn down, built facing the sidewalk, and filled with a mix of local businesses.

I'll be interested to see Reeves' plans, and hopefully he realizes he can get better visibility and square footage by bringing the building to the sidewalk.  It will be damn shame if that building is simply reused and there continues to be parking lot at the south gateway to Brookside....


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Conan71 on March 30, 2011, 02:24:44 pm
Center 1 and the Consortium are fully occupied by local businesses which is what Aberson wants.  Jerry Reeves developed the Pei Wei/Starbucks building, and whatever he does at Blockbuster will probably involve chains.  Aberson would see to it that the building is torn down, built facing the sidewalk, and filled with a mix of local businesses.

I'll be interested to see Reeves' plans, and hopefully he realizes he can get better visibility and square footage by bringing the building to the sidewalk.  It will be damn shame if that building is simply reused and there continues to be parking lot at the south gateway to Brookside....

Seems like Reeves got that idea with Starbucks & Pei Wei


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on March 30, 2011, 02:28:55 pm
Seems like Reeves got that idea with Starbucks & Pei Wei

Bringing the building to the sidewalk?  It was a vacant service station before, and I think the Brookside Infill Plan carried some weight.  It still feels suburban to me with the design and side parking lot, at least compared to Aberson's developments along Peoria.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Teatownclown on March 30, 2011, 02:43:31 pm
There's no sense in tearing down the existing building. Jerry and his partner Dale are too smart for that. Bank...ATT....and a third tenant most likely. Credit counts....


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Teatownclown on March 30, 2011, 02:45:37 pm
I'll be damned, had no idea. My bad.

Aberson did redevelop into Centre 1 with the owner/church (behind the property).

Aberson has a master lease on Centre 1 ......



Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on March 30, 2011, 03:19:55 pm
There's no sense in tearing down the existing building. Jerry and his partner Dale are too smart for that. Bank...ATT....and a third tenant most likely. Credit counts....

Not what Brookside needs at all....can anywhere in this city not become generic Anyplace USA??  

Maybe it was naive to expect anything more than strip retail...I still that location is perfect for a small hotel with retail at street level.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: swampee on March 30, 2011, 05:11:38 pm
I have heard that it will be a bank and an At&t store. The building will be used and the parking lot the same. The middle of brookside really sucks with the horrible Quicktrip expansion on the west and this on the east if true.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: swampee on March 30, 2011, 05:12:34 pm
Sorry already posted


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: YoungTulsan on March 30, 2011, 07:08:25 pm
Finally, a place to purchase cell phones.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: ZYX on March 30, 2011, 07:32:09 pm
There's no sense in tearing down the existing building. Jerry and his partner Dale are too smart for that. Bank...ATT....and a third tenant most likely. Credit counts....

I disagree. I think that there is sense in tearing down this building and putting in something that is more urban and that will actually contribute to Brookside. Outside of Downtown I cannot think of any real quality development that has happenned in this city in the last couple years. Like SXSW said everything we build in this city is completely generic. What happenned to Tulsa being America's most beautiful city? That is why this building should be torn down. Tulsa was not named America's most beautiful city because of strip malls and AT&ts on ever freaking corner...!


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: ZYX on March 30, 2011, 07:34:40 pm
Finally, a place to purchase cell phones.

Just can't beat 101st and Memorial though...


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Red Arrow on March 30, 2011, 07:39:39 pm
Just can't beat 101st and Memorial though...

101st & Memorial is too far in the boonies for many TNF members to travel for a phone.  They need something closer.
 :D


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on March 30, 2011, 08:06:39 pm
I disagree. I think that there is sense in tearing down this building and putting in something that is more urban and that will actually contribute to Brookside. Outside of Downtown I cannot think of any real quality development that has happenned in this city in the last couple years. Like SXSW said everything we build in this city is completely generic. What happenned to Tulsa being America's most beautiful city? That is why this building should be torn down. Tulsa was not named America's most beautiful city because of strip malls and AT&ts on ever freaking corner...!

Yep, this is a lost opportunity.  The only good news is that this "remodel" will be cheap and that there will be the possibility that a better developer, like Henry Aberson, will buy the property and put it to better use.  

That whole section around 36th is awful from an urban standpoint.  The streetscape extending south past 36th with more street trees, pavers in the intersection, and getting rid of the left turn lane on Peoria would be big improvements.  Both the Blockbuster and the church offer opportunities for urban infill that fronts the sidewalk and better defines the street; not the church itself but the metal building to the south.  If the church was smart they would realize they have prime Brookside frontage and would construct a building up to the sidewalk and corner of 36th Pl with retail space at street level and church functions on the second floor with parking to the east.

Brookside is a major asset for midtown and one of Tulsa's most popular districts.  It needs to be getting better not adding AT&T stores and banks that you can find everywhere else in town...





Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Conan71 on March 30, 2011, 09:41:18 pm
Yep, this is a lost opportunity.  The only good news is that this "remodel" will be cheap and that there will be the possibility that a better developer, like Henry Aberson, will buy the property and put it to better use.  

That whole section around 36th is awful from an urban standpoint.  The streetscape extending south past 36th with more street trees, pavers in the intersection, and getting rid of the left turn lane on Peoria would be big improvements.  Both the Blockbuster and the church offer opportunities for urban infill that fronts the sidewalk and better defines the street; not the church itself but the metal building to the south.  If the church was smart they would realize they have prime Brookside frontage and would construct a building up to the sidewalk and corner of 36th Pl with retail space at street level and church functions on the second floor with parking to the east.

Brookside is a major asset for midtown and one of Tulsa's most popular districts.  It needs to be getting better not adding AT&T stores and banks that you can find everywhere else in town...


As TTC pointed out, Aberson holds a master lease, he's not a property owner and until proven otherwise, I don't think he's got the kind of $$ necessary to be a serious player on Brookside other than being a lease-holder.  I believe the center he re-developed was already up to the sidewalk, and apparently was in partnership with the church.

I agree, a phone store and bank along with something else bland in a building and lot which resembles a Car Mart really sucks.  I had higher hopes for it.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: TheTed on March 30, 2011, 10:39:57 pm
I have heard that it will be a bank and an At&t store. The building will be used and the parking lot the same. The middle of brookside really sucks with the horrible Quicktrip expansion on the west and this on the east if true.
Middle? Brookside, in my estimation, is only a few blocks long. At least there are only a few blocks, all north of QT, worthy of any type of neighborhood name.

You can call the area of Peoria south of QT Brookside if you want, but I'll call it generic Tulsa.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Conan71 on March 30, 2011, 10:43:36 pm
Middle? Brookside, in my estimation, is only a few blocks long. At least there are only a few blocks, all north of QT, worthy of any type of neighborhood name.

You can call the area of Peoria south of QT Brookside if you want, but I'll call it generic Tulsa.

Imagine my dismay when I discovered legendary Beale Street in Memphis was actually slightly shorter than the more vibrant area of Brookside and not really much more compelling.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Hoss on March 30, 2011, 10:45:36 pm
Imagine my dismay when I discovered legendary Beale Street in Memphis was actually slightly shorter than the more vibrant area of Brookside and not really much more compelling.

Kinda felt that way about Sixth Street when I went to Austin.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Teatownclown on March 31, 2011, 12:05:22 am
Imagine my dismay when I discovered legendary Beale Street in Memphis was actually slightly shorter than the more vibrant area of Brookside and not really much more compelling.

Ah yes...Memphis . Another big loser with the Pyramid. But saw some special music there before it became???? a church?

Tulsa could have made the Brady, er Franklin, like Beale with %10 of the cost of the BOK. Brookside and Beale? No comparison. Apples to oranges.

Perhaps, the Brady, er Franklin, district could some day be compared. Two great anchors in the Cains and Old Lady....What $10,000,000 might have done for the area in 2025.

Another shoulda coulda woulda for Tea Town.

Brookside's just another street down some lonesome neighborhood. Little historical value compared to the potential of the Franklin district.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: YoungTulsan on March 31, 2011, 01:26:58 am
Middle? Brookside, in my estimation, is only a few blocks long. At least there are only a few blocks, all north of QT, worthy of any type of neighborhood name.

You can call the area of Peoria south of QT Brookside if you want, but I'll call it generic Tulsa.

Start reading real estate ads and the Brookside "area" goes all the way down to 61st street.  A QT being on the south side of the 36th & Peoria intersection as a point of debate about Brookside becomes funny after that.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Red Arrow on March 31, 2011, 06:36:50 am
Start reading real estate ads and the Brookside "area" goes all the way down to 61st street.  A QT being on the south side of the 36th & Peoria intersection as a point of debate about Brookside becomes funny after that.

Clever marketing.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on March 31, 2011, 07:58:26 am
Middle? Brookside, in my estimation, is only a few blocks long. At least there are only a few blocks, all north of QT, worthy of any type of neighborhood name.

You can call the area of Peoria south of QT Brookside if you want, but I'll call it generic Tulsa.

There are enough businesses concentrated on Peoria from 36th to 41st to warrant the name Brookside, IMO.  Not south of 41st though.  The neighborhood bounded by 31st, Riverside, Utica and 41st is also known as Brookside.  True the strip south of 36th along Peoria it is not as cohesive as the part north of 36th but there are plenty of unique businesses and it is somewhat pedestrian-friendly.  36th is currently a barrier between the two sides and this development does not help bridge that barrier.  

Brookside is good for Tulsa in many ways.  First it is centrally-located, a couple miles from downtown, a couple miles from Utica Square/Cherry Street, just a half miles from the river trails, etc.  It also has one of the better TPS schools (Eliot) and includes a large mix of housing and housing prices from 2 bd/1 ba houses going for 120K closer to the river to large homes pushing 1 million closer to Utica.  There is also the city's largest concentration of residential infill.  It is actually a part of inner city Tulsa that is attracting new families when many neighborhoods are losing them to south Tulsa and the suburbs.  Anything the city/developers/patrons can do to make it better and even more desirable is important.  There are not many neighborhoods in Tulsa with the same dynamics and mix of restaurants, retail and nightlife immediately adjacent to residential neighborhoods.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Renaissance on March 31, 2011, 08:43:27 am
There shouldn't be any argument that Brookside goes to 41st.  There happens to be a dense area of commercial businesses from 33rd to 36th in Brookside, but those few blocks do not define the limits of the neighborhood. 

Just ask the Bomasada group...


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Renaissance on March 31, 2011, 08:47:07 am

Tulsa could have made the Brady, er Franklin, like Beale with %10 of the cost of the BOK. Brookside and Beale? No comparison. Apples to oranges.

Perhaps, the Brady, er Franklin, district could some day be compared. Two great anchors in the Cains and Old Lady....What $10,000,000 might have done for the area in 2025.

Another shoulda coulda woulda for Tea Town.

You should elaborate on what $10m could have done.  All that comes to my mind is streetscaping and parks.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: we vs us on March 31, 2011, 08:50:09 am
Even though that kind of marketing can seem distasteful or like a lie, it's also a crucial part of the development ecosystem. It gives an up and coming district a shine, it creates interest (imprecise though it may be), and expands the boundaries of what the scientific definition of Brookside may be.  It's a variation of the old principal that if you say Brookside extends to 61st St. enough times, then it does.  And people will buy/build/visit all the way down to 61st.  


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Breadburner on March 31, 2011, 09:54:27 am
Brookside does extend to I-44 maybe even a little further......But that area is not a relevant as it was back in the day.....


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: CoffeeBean on April 03, 2011, 09:11:22 pm
Brookside runs south somewhere of 45th. 


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Hoss on April 03, 2011, 09:57:45 pm
Brookside runs south somewhere of 45th. 

Not the Brookside I know.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on April 04, 2011, 07:59:51 am
I noticed Lambruzco's is advertising itself as being located in "Lower Brookside".  So is Upper Brookside from 41st St north and Lower Brookside from 41st St south? 


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: AngieB on April 04, 2011, 03:27:47 pm
I noticed Lambruzco's is advertising itself as being located in "Lower Brookside".  So is Upper Brookside from 41st St north and Lower Brookside from 41st St south? 

Lambrusco'z is actually just encouraging people to visit Brookside north of 41st - they're not saying that's where they are located. Technically, by your logic, they would be Upper Brookside since they are on the south side of 41st st.

And might I just say... Lambrusco'z is truly Tulsa's best deli and caterer. Word.  8)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: OpenYourEyesTulsa on April 05, 2011, 01:00:22 pm
Has anyone on the forum been to Edmonton, Alberta in Canada?  They have this really great street called Whyte Ave. and it is what I hope Brookside will become all the way from I-44 to 31st.

I like the wide sidewalks and the shops, bars, theaters, and restaurants being close to the street.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotos-g154914-d156146-Whyte_Avenue-Edmonton_Alberta.html#19019742


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Townsend on April 07, 2011, 12:46:53 pm
Well we may see Dish Network set up shop on Brookside in the old Blockbuster building.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704013604576246793189356436.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704013604576246793189356436.html)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Conan71 on April 07, 2011, 12:49:09 pm
How does FAILnetwork keep coming up with all this cash?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Gaspar on April 07, 2011, 12:51:35 pm
The great thing about Dish Network is that I canceled it in 2008 and got cable.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: dbacks fan on April 07, 2011, 12:56:16 pm
Has anyone tried Zediva?

http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/article/New-site-new-DVDs-on-demand-1275699.php (http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/article/New-site-new-DVDs-on-demand-1275699.php)

http://w1.zediva.com/splash/index.php (http://w1.zediva.com/splash/index.php)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: CoffeeBean on April 25, 2011, 01:42:29 pm
Noticed the front to the old Ida Red space was remodeled to create a sheltered front patio area.  Any idea if anything is going in?   


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Patrick on April 25, 2011, 01:51:54 pm
Well we may see Dish Network set up shop on Brookside in the old Blockbuster building.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704013604576246793189356436.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704013604576246793189356436.html)

Passed by today and saw an Ark Wrecking truck out front with some junk in the back.  It was just a regular pick-up truck, nothing like a crane with a wrecking ball.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on April 25, 2011, 03:23:20 pm
Passed by today and saw an Ark Wrecking truck out front with some junk in the back.  It was just a regular pick-up truck, nothing like a crane with a wrecking ball.

That's too bad...   ;)

I usually cringe when I see their trucks, especially downtown, but they would be welcome at this location.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: we vs us on May 05, 2011, 01:21:38 pm
The real estate transaction column of the World's Business section said that Bank of the West leased 3k sq ft of space at 3559 S. Peoria.  Google Maps puts that as the ex-Blockbuster.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: joiei on May 05, 2011, 01:24:51 pm
At the Brookside Business Association meeting Wed morning they said part of the space was goibg to become a bank.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Teatownclown on May 05, 2011, 01:53:40 pm
I like Dish. You can get SIRIUS.  

My cable has increased $25 in 4 years (%78/4=%19.5 a year...push profit inflation)  for basic and that with fewer channels today. Cox suckers.

Like I stated before, phone store, bank and a still to be announced third tenant in Blockbuster.

Tequila time yet? Thinking about having a sip or two in honor of the day. ;)



Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on May 05, 2011, 03:57:47 pm
I like Dish. You can get SIRIUS.  

My cable has increased $25 in 4 years (%78/4=%19.5 a year...push profit inflation)  for basic and that with fewer channels today. Cox suckers.

Like I stated before, phone store, bank and a still to be announced third tenant in Blockbuster.

Tequila time yet? Thinking about having a sip or two in honor of the day. ;)

Awful.  That corner deserves much better. 


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Teatownclown on May 05, 2011, 10:44:45 pm
Awful.  That corner deserves much better. 

Not really. The whole area deserves decent restaurants, service and retail. Bars need to go downtown into the Boozerie area.



Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on May 06, 2011, 07:53:18 am
Not really. The whole area deserves decent restaurants, service and retail. Bars need to go downtown into the Boozerie area.

I would argue Brookside is a bigger nightlife district than downtown, even with the Blue Dome and Brady districts combined as "downtown". 

I just prefer local businesses and walkable urban design.  Developments like the Consortium, Center One, the rebuilding of the old Delta Cafe, etc. have greatly contributed to making Brookside a destination, not what they are doing with the old Blockbuster.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Renaissance on May 06, 2011, 09:16:48 am
Well, it's not making things any worse.  It's still a neighborhood, after all, as well as a destination.  I understand the frustration, but not every landowner is playing SimTulsa. 


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: DTowner on May 06, 2011, 09:30:05 am
I would argue it is worse than the current building because it has almost no chance of ever becoming anything else.  Yet another bank in Brookside does nothing to add interest to the area and creates a little dead zone a night.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Teatownclown on May 06, 2011, 10:35:58 am
Dead zones make for good parking!


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: TheTed on May 06, 2011, 11:21:27 am
It's amazing how many banks there are. I go to the bank like four times a year. And I'm considering switching from BOK to a bank with an app to deposit checks via smartphone.

Once that happens and my apartment's washer/dryers start accepting credit, I'll never see the inside of a bank again.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on May 06, 2011, 12:37:21 pm
I would argue it is worse than the current building because it has almost no chance of ever becoming anything else.  Yet another bank in Brookside does nothing to add interest to the area and creates a little dead zone a night.

Exactly, the Blockbuster had a death wish 5 years ago and I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.  That building could've easily been torn down and a new building built to the sidewalk with space for 3-4 small retailers, including a bank if they really wanted to be there.  The advantage would be that Brookside would continue to cater to the pedestrian with sidewalk-facing buildings and not the car with a front parking lot.  It discourages walking which is one of the reasons Brookside is so popular.  

It should've been built like Center One and would've served as a nice gateway into the heart of Brookside from the south..


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Nik on May 08, 2011, 12:11:14 pm
Noticed the front to the old Ida Red space was remodeled to create a sheltered front patio area.  Any idea if anything is going in?   

Another self serve yogurt place. Not sure which brand.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Teatownclown on May 08, 2011, 01:24:26 pm
That's the word. Yogurt shops are todays ice cream parlors. This year there has been many many opened.
Americans can be fooled but most eventually just come full circle.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: rdj on June 08, 2011, 12:15:59 pm
Is it confirmed that a bank is going in this old Blockbuster?  I have a contact with a financial service company that is looking for a midtown location.  They wouldn't share a spot with a bank.  I hate to have them call the broker, that is like sending someone to a dating site.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Teatownclown on June 08, 2011, 12:56:29 pm
yes...confirmed.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: stageidea on June 08, 2011, 12:59:15 pm
I was hoping for something more exciting than a bank.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Teatownclown on June 08, 2011, 10:47:08 pm
Like another boozerie? A tattoo parlor? Another pizza joint?

What did you have in mind?

A bakery? A jewelry store? A used car lot? A car rental lot?

There's not a whole lot of demand period. Just look down the street at the constant turnover. Unfortunately, the trickle down economy drained all the mom and pops from self proprietorship retail. Not many national chains want to go that close to the river nor an area with these demographics unless it's Utica Square.

Banks are a staple in neighborhoods. Keeps money safe from looters unless they go unregulated.

The key ingredient for any successful real estate project is the underlying credit of the occupants. Hence, the best projects don't appear to be what all the "I want this and that" crowd cries out for. Unfortunately, the real pros stay with what's financially feasible. That means companies with solid credit.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Breadburner on June 08, 2011, 10:53:46 pm
Like another boozerie?

Or yoga for people stoned and over 60.....


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Teatownclown on June 08, 2011, 11:22:50 pm
Or yoga for people stoned and over 60.....

Now a marijuana dispensary would be ideal but for the fact we will be the last state to ever legitimize the substance. The nursing homes/assisted living/retirement complexes need to infill downtown to help that area with disposable income. Yoga doesn't need four walls....besides, it's for the balanced and flexible which Tulsa is very short on.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: stageidea on June 09, 2011, 09:55:31 am
I am not saying that a bank is a negative.  Just not that exciting. 

Of your list I think I would like the Bakery.  But note I would like a "Real" bakery, not another Panera clone.  I am actually surprised it isn't yet another tanning store or nail salon.   



Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Townsend on June 09, 2011, 09:59:38 am
A bank is fine imo.  Be lovely if they moved it up to the sidewalk and made it more attractive.

I think the bank robbers are probably looking for a place to work and then be able to easily walk over to an entertainment venue or coffee place to spend their ill-gotten booty.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: YoungTulsan on June 09, 2011, 11:47:35 am
I said it in my 2008 post, what Brookside needs is more residents first and foremost.  It doesn't even have the population density that it did 20 years ago due to the single family postwar homes now mostly being rent houses for 20somethings, or elderly people who bought the home originally.  New businesses continue to be a risky proposition there until more people actually LIVE there.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on February 05, 2012, 12:30:04 pm
New restaurant/bar concept R Bar is now open where BruHouse used to be (34th & Peoria).  I walked by last night and it was packed.  There is also a new boutique next door (C Grant) that has been open for a few weeks.  They have really modernized that part of the block.

On A Whim (women's boutique from OKC) is also set to open soon in the last vacant spaces in Center One next to Blue Moon.

There is also some serious infill going on in the neighborhood to the east of Peoria.  I counted at least 8 different construction projects in that small area.  Some of it is decent, most of it is crap..


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Townsend on February 10, 2012, 11:31:51 am

From The KOTV Vault: 'Shorts Day' Flops On Tulsa's Brookside  (1979)


http://www.newson6.com/story/16901754/from-the-vault-shorts-days-flops-for-tulsas-brookside (http://www.newson6.com/story/16901754/from-the-vault-shorts-days-flops-for-tulsas-brookside)


(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/16901754_BG2.jpg)

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/16901754_BG1.jpg)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: carltonplace on February 10, 2012, 12:09:33 pm
Thats hot


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Townsend on February 10, 2012, 12:10:25 pm
Thats hot

Waiting for someone like Aqua to say "holy Moses, that's me."


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: RecycleMichael on February 10, 2012, 01:12:35 pm
The hoods hung out in that parking lot. We cool kids were across the street and a mile north of there.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: swake on February 10, 2012, 01:45:26 pm
Im guessing there were a lot more Buds in that parking lot than just the grocery store.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: dbacks fan on February 10, 2012, 05:31:02 pm
Probably both kinds of 'buds'.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: AquaMan on February 10, 2012, 05:48:56 pm
Waiting for someone like Aqua to say "holy Moses, that's me."

Holy Macaroni!! The guy sitting on the cycle. That's me....or could have been.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: YoungTulsan on February 10, 2012, 10:47:38 pm
Funny how that KOTV video ties to the discussion earlier in this thread about what Brookside's boundaries are.   Obviously 1979 is different than today, as the further south areas have become blighted (the beginning of which actually being documented in this 1979 clip) - But there they are having a Brookside event south of I-44.

Did Chester consider his first store a part of Brookside I wonder?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Teatownclown on February 11, 2012, 02:31:49 pm
Funny how that KOTV video ties to the discussion earlier in this thread about what Brookside's boundaries are.   Obviously 1979 is different than today, as the further south areas have become blighted (the beginning of which actually being documented in this 1979 clip) - But there they are having a Brookside event south of I-44.

Did Chester consider his first store a part of Brookside I wonder?

Most definitely KAKC was at the end of the strip and QT was in front....


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: YoungTulsan on February 11, 2012, 04:48:48 pm
The leading sector of business down there today appears to be payday loans.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: CoffeeBean on November 03, 2012, 02:04:25 pm
Anybody know what's going at the old Flying Burrito spot?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Breadburner on November 03, 2012, 03:22:42 pm
Anybody know what's going at the old Flying Burrito spot?

Zoes Kitchen.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: BKDotCom on November 03, 2012, 05:26:24 pm
http://zoeskitchen.com/ for the uninitiated


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Vision 2025 on November 05, 2012, 08:57:31 am
The hoods hung out in that parking lot. We cool kids were across the street and a mile north of there.
Safeway?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: RecycleMichael on November 05, 2012, 10:18:36 am
Next door to Safeway. At the Upholstery company parking lot just north.

We had quite a large crowd most weekend nights.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Vision 2025 on November 05, 2012, 10:38:20 am
Next door to Safeway. At the Upholstery company parking lot just north.

We had quite a large crowd most weekend nights.
The Moss crowd... DQ here.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on March 05, 2018, 10:46:25 am
Saw this posted on the Preserve Midtown Facebook page.  Really curious to know more about the hotel/parking garage and where this is located?

Quote
FYI Development news/update from the Brookside Neighborhood Association website:

a. Bus Rapid Transit Convert properties to MX zoning at 41st Place & Peoria
b. Possible multi-story parking garage (camouflaged with landscaping), hotel and
restaurants on bottom floors. Hotel could provide transportation to Gathering Place.

c. More development needed along Peoria between 41st and 51st
d. Question asked about commercial development along Riverside:
Phase II of Gathering Place from 31st to 34th Streets will be commercial

If you want to know more, please consider attending the Brookside Neighborhood Meeting tonight from 6-7 pm at Southminster Presbyterian Church- Dining Hall (south parking lot off 35th Place)

https://www.facebook.com/PreserveMidtown/ (https://www.facebook.com/PreserveMidtown/)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on March 05, 2018, 06:27:40 pm
Fascinating


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: BKDotCom on March 05, 2018, 08:16:27 pm
Saw this posted on the Preserve Midtown Facebook page.  Really curious to know more about the hotel/parking garage and where this is located?

https://www.facebook.com/PreserveMidtown/ (https://www.facebook.com/PreserveMidtown/)

did you "consider attending the Brookside Neighborhood Meeting tonight" ?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 06, 2018, 08:40:37 am
I wonder if that is the same one rumored at 21st and Boston?  Not exactly midtown, but...


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on March 06, 2018, 09:26:52 am
It's at 41st Place & Peoria and includes that vacant property between 41st Pl and 42nd St.  Tim Clark is the developer.  IMO that's an odd location for a hotel...





Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: BKDotCom on March 06, 2018, 09:49:45 am
IMO that's an odd location for a hotel...

Apparently less odd than Utica Square.  Which is odd.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: rebound on March 06, 2018, 09:50:12 am
I wonder if that is the same one rumored at 21st and Boston?  Not exactly midtown, but...

Just curious, what would be Midtown then?   I'm not sure what the official designation is, but (particularly in the area directly South of downtown) my thought is that anything South of the IDL is Midtown.  Certainly by the time you get to 21st, you are solidly into Midtown.



Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on March 06, 2018, 09:58:10 am
Just curious, what would be Midtown then?   I'm not sure what the official designation is, but (particularly in the area directly South of downtown) my thought is that anything South of the IDL is Midtown.  Certainly by the time you get to 21st, you are solidly into Midtown.

I agree.  Downtown is just inside the IDL.  Riverview, including the historic neighborhood and commercial areas between Boulder and Boston, is part of midtown.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on March 06, 2018, 09:59:24 am
Apparently less odd than Utica Square.  Which is odd.

Utica Square would be a great location for a hotel.  Honestly surprised there is not one already there, or next to it.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: patric on March 06, 2018, 10:01:02 am
Just curious, what would be Midtown then?   I'm not sure what the official designation is, but (particularly in the area directly South of downtown) my thought is that anything South of the IDL is Midtown.  Certainly by the time you get to 21st, you are solidly into Midtown.

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/01/0015ed5e-9abd-11e5-8bc8-d36dece97e7c/5661e92eae164.preview.jpg?resize=800%2C627)

The Whirled uses this, other media use other maps but Ive always understood Sheridan to be the Midtown/East divider, for example.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Townsend on March 06, 2018, 11:20:14 am
Please let this be the end of the "Where is midtown?" discussion on this thread.

We have beaten this horse into dust.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 06, 2018, 11:49:47 am
Please let this be the end of the "Where is midtown?" discussion on this thread.

We have beaten this horse into dust.

And yet people still aren't sure about it. That map is a helpful general guideline.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 06, 2018, 11:57:12 am
Damn, sorry.  Didn't mean to open this can of worms.  I only meant the area from 21st north to the IDL is usually not considered part of midtown because it is an entirely different character than then "rest" of midtown to the east of Cinci.    Uptown, 18th and Boston area, whatever. 

Happy to fight in some other thread, but we can all agree that Brookside IS in Midtown   ;D. 


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on March 06, 2018, 12:04:38 pm
Anyone know the current plans for the Trinity UMC property at 37th Pl & Peoria?  At one time they discussed building a new church there.  If I were Trinity I would do a mixed-use building with retail on the first floor and church functions above.  Brookside Baptist Church at 36th & Peoria could do the same thing with their building next to Zoe's Kitchen.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: RecycleMichael on March 07, 2018, 09:05:27 am
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/01/0015ed5e-9abd-11e5-8bc8-d36dece97e7c/5661e92eae164.preview.jpg?resize=800%2C627)

This map sucks. Where is the Mid East?

Are we afraid of properly naming it that because there is always tension there?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on May 11, 2018, 10:37:35 am
Quote
Coffee, cocktails and carnations: Husband, wife team up for new concept on Brookside


It will be called Foolish Things Bar and Biscuit

With close to a dozen years of combined business acumen between them, husband and wife entrepreneurs Justin and Katie Carpenter have proven they are adept at many things.

Standing still, however, isnt among them.

Were not very good at relaxing, which is a good or a bad thing depending on how you look at it, she said. But we just love what we do. If were not working, were talking about work or talking about other conversations weve had with other business owners or where we are in the process. It kind of never stops for us.


The new cost for doing business in Tulsa.
For those who care about business and this community, we have a deal for you. Start a digital subscription for only $0.99. Sign up now at tulsaworld.com/subscribe.

Staying in character, Justin Carpenter, owner of Foolish Things Coffee Co., and Katie Carpenter, co-owner of Ever Something, an event/wedding planning/floral shop, are planning a new venture in the Brookside area.

Foolish Things Bar & Biscuit will incorporate coffee, cocktails, food and flowers at 3524F S. Peoria Ave. in Center 1. It is expected to open around October, the couple said.

Were kind of excited to bring both of our passions together and present a new experience, honestly, for Tulsa, Katie Carpenter said this week during an interview at Foolish Things Coffee Co., 1001 S. Main St.

Nestled in a narrow, 2,600-square-foot space, Bar & Biscuit, besides serving espressos, spirits, wine and beer, will cater its cooking to the brunch and pre- and post-dinner crowds. The floral component will allow customers to buy arrangements and bouquets or simply watch employees create them.

In the same way as the downtown location, we want someone to come in after a run and feel comfortable bellying up next to someone in a tux about to go to a wedding, Justin Carpenter said in an email.

In an earlier interview, he said, Were trying to do something thats unique to Tulsa but that is also very respectful to the neighborhood, that really tries to embody what the neighborhood is about.

The Carpenters were college sweethearts at Wheaton College, the Illinois liberal arts school they attended. Justin Carpenter started Foolish Things Coffee in September 2012, and Katie Carpenter will celebrate her five-year anniversary at Ever Something in a few months.

Hes so driven and passionate, Katie said of her husband. So when he finds something that he really wants to pursue, he kind of goes all in. That was definitely his mindset when it came to opening a retail space.

With no previous experience in the cafe industry, Justin Carpenter trained at Topeca Coffee before opening his first business. For the Brookside concept, he is being tutored by the drink experts at Valkyrie. Also, working with the Carpenters on cuisine and menu development is chef Philip Phillips, who founded the local Lone Wolf food truck.

One of the coolest parts for us is being able to collaborate with people in the industry, Justin Carpenter said. Its unique to Tulsa that we have an environment where chefs and restaurateurs and bar owners are willing to partner with people they trust who are going to push the industry forward. Its flattering for us that we are considered part of that group.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/coffee-cocktails-and-carnations-husband-wife-team-up-for-new/article_d961f5cb-3458-5aec-b08d-c1236730d616.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/coffee-cocktails-and-carnations-husband-wife-team-up-for-new/article_d961f5cb-3458-5aec-b08d-c1236730d616.html)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on May 11, 2018, 10:39:42 am
It will be called Foolish Things Bar and Biscuit

This concept sounds interesting and Foolish Things is great, but that name sounds ridiculous. I won't be surprised if people think it's some kind of dog-friendly bar or dog related place.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: hello on May 11, 2018, 10:47:38 am
Ever Something is a little out of my price range when I'm trying to buy flowers. I'm sure they're worth it but...yeah.

Tulsa needs something like OKCs Okay Yeah/Plant Shoppe. Great coffee and plant store, with pretty reasonable prices.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: rebound on May 11, 2018, 11:02:33 am
This concept sounds interesting and Foolish Things is great, but that name sounds ridiculous. I won't be surprised if people think it's some kind of dog-friendly bar or dog related place.

Slight Drift.   We need more dog-friendly bars and restaurants in this town!  On brookside, about the only option is RBar. 


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: AdamsHall on May 11, 2018, 12:30:57 pm
Slight Drift.   We need more dog-friendly bars and restaurants in this town!  On brookside, about the only option is RBar. 

Blue Moon Cafe patio is dog friendly too.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: rebound on May 13, 2018, 06:59:13 pm
Blue Moon Cafe patio is dog friendly too.

Forgot about that one.  I remember you have to take the dog around the outside.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsabug on December 17, 2021, 07:47:57 am
Not for nothing I'm reviving the Brookside thread. Hearing something about the church at 36th and Peoria being torn down for  high-end apartments with retail underneath. I have zero to back this up - anyone hear anything?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Tulsan on December 17, 2021, 10:32:36 am
Not for nothing I'm reviving the Brookside thread. Hearing something about the church at 36th and Peoria being torn down for  high-end apartments with retail underneath. I have zero to back this up - anyone hear anything?

Looks like it sold to an entity named Soc Row LLC on 12-1-21. The zoning was changed from RS-3 to MX1 back in May 2019 in TMAPC. The application for rezoning  was very vague but presumably theyve had it in mind to market the property for some time.

Will do some more digging and report back, but this rumor appears to have legs.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Red Arrow on December 17, 2021, 11:01:40 am
Looks like it sold to an entity named Soc Row LLC on 12-1-21. The zoning was changed from RS-3 to MX1 back in May 2019 in TMAPC. The application for rezoning  was very vague but presumably theyve had it in mind to market the property for some time.

I don't know where to find the zoning codes.  What are RS-3 and MX1?



Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: LandArchPoke on December 17, 2021, 01:26:59 pm
Not for nothing I'm reviving the Brookside thread. Hearing something about the church at 36th and Peoria being torn down for  high-end apartments with retail underneath. I have zero to back this up - anyone hear anything?

It is happening, Ross Group project. Looks really really nice from the renderings, it is going to piss the neighborhood off to no end I can imagine when renderings are released haha. Not much they can do at this point, zoning is in place so as soon as the debt for construction is secured I would imagine you'll see press releases about it early next year. Church is retaining space in the development and there will be a plaza and ground floor retail with a mix of local and national tenants. Design is pretty modern/contemporary if they don't cheapen it up. It's like a 5x nicer version of the Cosmopolitan. Will be even nicer than the NOMA project, definitely one of the more exciting proposals I've seen in a while if they follow through with the design they have now.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Tulsan on December 17, 2021, 02:56:38 pm
Heres whats coming. Its a shame theyre going to tear down that church for this characterless crap. Same architect as the 11th and Lewis deal (NoMa lol). Maybe they can call this one SoPa.

(https://us1-photo.nextdoor.com/post_photos/85/9a/859aa3edf0d4b0657819fa74cc6b1aad.jpg)

(https://us1-photo.nextdoor.com/post_photos/22/6c/226c6c145d58a6d42d14ba5224c63785.jpg)

(https://us1-photo.nextdoor.com/post_photos/2b/04/2b040f2b7aa691a2cd5e56cd12cd5393.jpg)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: LandArchPoke on December 17, 2021, 03:29:18 pm
Heres whats coming. Its a shame theyre going to tear down that church for this characterless crap. Same architect as the 11th and Lewis deal (NoMa lol). Maybe they can call this one SoPa.


Difference of opinion - frankly I think it's a huge improvement. The church is a big dead space street interaction wise and there is about zero architectural significance to that church outside of the north entry tower off 36th just east of Peoria. The rest of the building is nothing but a generic tin building that had stone slapped on the side with a giant parking lot.

I'll take density with retail up to the sidewalks, will help lengthen the core of Brookside south too.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Tulsan on December 17, 2021, 03:45:19 pm
generic tin building

You sure youre not describing the building in the drawings?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: LandArchPoke on December 17, 2021, 03:50:13 pm
You sure youre not describing the building in the drawings?

 ;D just difference of opinion. I'll take the tin building in the renderings that extends streetlife and density south versus the tin building church with zero activity, pushed back from the street, and with half the site as a surface parking lot. Being across from the QT in combination that pretty much are the killer of street life that fragments anything south from the more pedestrian part of Brookside north. 


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: shavethewhales on December 17, 2021, 04:00:57 pm
It looks good to me. It's definitely the style of the day, which makes it seem generic, but in 50-100 years people will be fighting to preserve it I'm sure.  :D

The church has some interesting elements, namely the tower entrance that has been mentioned before, but it won't be a huge loss. It would be a nice touch to keep the retro sign.

The real question is what else this project will kick off down the road. There's a LOT of empty/underutilized lots in Brookside despite it being a compact area. Heck, there's still an empty lot from the last church that was demolished.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: swake on December 17, 2021, 04:15:13 pm
I don't care about that church, many. different examples in town of churches from that era. Many much better examples.

I again ask, why no hotel in Brookside?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Tulsan on December 17, 2021, 04:15:45 pm
;D just difference of opinion. I'll take the tin building in the renderings that extends streetlife and density south versus the tin building church with zero activity, pushed back from the street, and with half the site as a surface parking lot. Being across from the QT in combination that pretty much are the killer of street life that fragments anything south from the more pedestrian part of Brookside north. 

Fair enough, just hate to see an attractive church building torn down instead of adaptively reused. Such a waste.

It will be refreshing for the power lines to be buried in the next round of street reconstruction (2023-24 in this stretch of Peoria).


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsabug on December 17, 2021, 05:29:58 pm
That church has always been immensely forgettable so while I'm always on the side of reusing old buildings, I'm really don't care one way or the other. One boring building with no character being replaced with another boring building with no character is a total push - the main positive is something is being done that is financially good for Brookside as a whole so I welcome it and at least the city will be able to get some property taxes out of it.  ;D


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsamatt on December 17, 2021, 06:45:00 pm
It is happening, Ross Group project. Looks really really nice from the renderings, it is going to piss the neighborhood off to no end I can imagine when renderings are released haha.

Just gonna say, as a neighbor, this looks great! Exciting addition to the neighborhood! Any word on the retailers?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: ELG4America on December 17, 2021, 08:31:38 pm
Density in Brookside? Yes please.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on December 22, 2021, 02:41:44 pm
I had heard about that project but hadn't seen the renderings, really cool and will definitely add some much-needed density to that corner.  

Looking at Brookside north of 36th the biggest remaining holes are the old Blockbuster retail strip at the NE corner of 36th and the old Mecca coffee/Brookside Tattoo and parking lot at 33rd Place.  Fill those in with similar mixed-use developments and you have a pretty cohesive walkable restaurant/retail district.

Has anyone seen renderings of the new Peoria bridge currently under construction over Crow Creek?  Curious if they planned for a future trail underpass once they build the new trail connecting Peoria to the Gathering Place.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on December 23, 2021, 11:44:30 am

I again ask, why no hotel in Brookside?


Phase III of the Gathering Place along Crow Creek seems like it would be a great spot for a hotel along with housing.  This is the mixed-use development that hasn't been announced yet as they finish up Phase II and the dam/pedestrian bridge.

I made this map showing where the future trail would be located next to Phase III

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4NHTx3GCVhkcuiszsipEf--WXaNVszHRXApx_rP-AlXxBZ_JRJ_ookj9NHHyiIztgiPU3610ZUXnx4RVCc0vchDQeAaQKpwh1LeFb9Fw_SanYLUKvlnk7s9Lwq86F8EuO1eYXu3cX7azv2xiiJ73BGsW-IobauEIVUmHewIXl8woyQQB1U8H0Kx1FU-of--jK1JYnmJa2mfsIw5JOhJNp_8CLMS0e9Qci1ysubVRpXBcyYB5y8Gw7Nkr3OZoE6ZSvt6yWmaZjPD1OTgdkOv-EJofQPJfSJFGIz_PTZpW91POYL1sEjtOu7jhy7Z7O3DN3w5n8lt861GI4LRXzruMvDZHV9XEdifh0cRiJP1qA0opi23MND7lWNi__DC5q94_dOnuQtehP1kIXCOlL0HYsehF_JUjXjb5JXix8u0HKGrVAUjh5LtKw9w4zN7JKtPCLD_e26xVcQBQEwn1_dYJEOoOFdM5oxN_JTYInQrLOA1yGUgzp1c4zmN0BRt7AxFPVCCbP6SeynnePp55XOYmDn_Oq5VAlJmMRGaty0C6whSpFocZy2qCd_Vw27Wf04CU0alKh2o-UKHlo7_G47YIC08ZVNA2TfzqSqP4S-CwG8-8qysdZxfmA3demRQyqkyLwrPonoG0RW4MIqnLGeyKvcEDib8YNiQ_luOYs2AVqwsM9GHNHw7NDfD8lGmX6f8BEDuhhxMbRA0-1iNDjt-Qo68=w1624-h640-no?authuser=0)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: DowntownDan on December 23, 2021, 11:55:17 am
Looks like everything going up in Dallas and Austin, so boring, but I like the density for sure, and don't care much for a church taking up a prime location. The name should be SoBro.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: DowntownDan on December 23, 2021, 11:56:56 am
Phase III of the Gathering Place along Crow Creek seems like it would be a great spot for a hotel along with housing.  This is the mixed-use development that hasn't been announced yet as they finish up Phase II and the dam/pedestrian bridge.

I made this map showing where the future trail would be located next to Phase III

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4NHTx3GCVhkcuiszsipEf--WXaNVszHRXApx_rP-AlXxBZ_JRJ_ookj9NHHyiIztgiPU3610ZUXnx4RVCc0vchDQeAaQKpwh1LeFb9Fw_SanYLUKvlnk7s9Lwq86F8EuO1eYXu3cX7azv2xiiJ73BGsW-IobauEIVUmHewIXl8woyQQB1U8H0Kx1FU-of--jK1JYnmJa2mfsIw5JOhJNp_8CLMS0e9Qci1ysubVRpXBcyYB5y8Gw7Nkr3OZoE6ZSvt6yWmaZjPD1OTgdkOv-EJofQPJfSJFGIz_PTZpW91POYL1sEjtOu7jhy7Z7O3DN3w5n8lt861GI4LRXzruMvDZHV9XEdifh0cRiJP1qA0opi23MND7lWNi__DC5q94_dOnuQtehP1kIXCOlL0HYsehF_JUjXjb5JXix8u0HKGrVAUjh5LtKw9w4zN7JKtPCLD_e26xVcQBQEwn1_dYJEOoOFdM5oxN_JTYInQrLOA1yGUgzp1c4zmN0BRt7AxFPVCCbP6SeynnePp55XOYmDn_Oq5VAlJmMRGaty0C6whSpFocZy2qCd_Vw27Wf04CU0alKh2o-UKHlo7_G47YIC08ZVNA2TfzqSqP4S-CwG8-8qysdZxfmA3demRQyqkyLwrPonoG0RW4MIqnLGeyKvcEDib8YNiQ_luOYs2AVqwsM9GHNHw7NDfD8lGmX6f8BEDuhhxMbRA0-1iNDjt-Qo68=w1624-h640-no?authuser=0)

I feel like I've seen this before. Is it an actual plan or just a pipedream (other than the Gathering Place portion which I think I saw is being built by the Discovery Lab). I imagine the homeowners would throw a massive fit (homeless everywhere ehermagerd!!!).


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on December 23, 2021, 12:29:15 pm
It is planned but not yet designed.  My understanding is it's in the works along with the mixed-use development in Phase III, and that either GKFF or the City of Tulsa has secured most of the properties required to build it.  The idea is to be able to connect the mixed-use development, Discovery Lab and Gathering Place directly to Brookside.  Below is an actual plan that was done pre-Gathering Place showing the trail with two trailheads, one of which is complete at Crow Creek Meadow on 33rd, and the other one at the old BSA site on Peoria.  This also shows the new Peoria bridge which is under construction and will be completed next summer.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/BBb1-WpgR6G3Zj-4_duXVpjaOI3_mnek5HMfEH_94wdSiTlS3gvFVt30Z5uTD0XyoBOH35sjW4daoYri8jsBN_YReSuj_H8dipG0dRyJwzg7nrM92b79WkSiDdnzgpUVgf_DbByT5pxnomkC2DU_A1WXN6MwW9MsZNx9fby1z_-3SMGoSBIZkpnJKLo)

If they can also fix the old stone walls along Crow Creek that will be a scenic place for a walk or bike ride.

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/69/d69b1dd3-bc2e-5ff5-b014-fdfcd1b6f3d6/556fbe4925b0c.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C800)

Restored section
(https://www.smartgrowthtulsaarchive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Crow-Creek-3.jpg)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Tulsan on December 23, 2021, 12:30:12 pm

I again ask, why no hotel in Brookside?


That was the Camelot, no?  Now it's a Quiktrip. 


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Tulsan on December 23, 2021, 12:39:48 pm

Has anyone seen renderings of the new Peoria bridge currently under construction over Crow Creek?  Curious if they planned for a future trail underpass once they build the new trail connecting Peoria to the Gathering Place.

I saw the bridge plans when they were put out to bid, and did not see any connectivity planned for underneath.  The stretch of Peoria that is the bridge will be wider than before in order to account for better pedestrian amenities.  They could always put a protected crossing at Peoria.  I'll see if I can find the PDF online... once the link disappears from the city engineer page (https://www.cityoftulsa.org/government/departments/engineering-services/construction-bids/) it can be hard to find again.  I'm frankly more excited for the power lines to be buried over the next five years--when they do that as part of the Peoria rebuild, that stretch will feel qualitatively different.  

As for the trail - I have a good contact at GKFF who has told me they have been frustrated by the property owners along the creek, and at this point there is no clear way forward to connect all the way to Peoria.  When it happens, I expect they'll build it to the Crow Creek Meadow and then just wait for the properties between there and the old BSA HQ at Peoria to come available, one by one.  May be many, many years.

EDIT: Here's a link to download the plans for the bridge: https://www.bidnet.com/bneattachments?/719501841.pdf.  Caution - it's a large file (125 MB).


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on December 23, 2021, 12:44:53 pm
As for the trail - I have a good contact at GKFF who has told me they have been frustrated by the property owners along the creek, and at this point there is no clear way forward to connect all the way to Peoria.  When it happens, I expect they'll build it to the Crow Creek Meadow and then just wait for the properties between there and the old BSA HQ at Peoria to come available, one by one.  May be many, many years.

If they could build the trail to Crow Creek Meadow you would only need to run behind one or two residential properties until you get to the office park which seems like it would be easier to run along than homes.  Then you would just need to have a bridge from the south to the north side to connect to the new trailhead at Peoria.  Maybe those properties are the problem.  

I guess a grade crossing at Peoria would be fine if there isn't an underpass, similar to the MV trail crossing at 21st St.  That is if they were to eventually extend the trail east to Zink Park.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: patric on December 23, 2021, 07:28:02 pm
I'm frankly more excited for the power lines to be buried over the next five years--when they do that as part of the Peoria rebuild, that stretch will feel qualitatively different.

What is to stop them from diverting the undergrounding funds to tree trimming at the last minute?  Bait-and-switch we have seen before.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on December 23, 2021, 08:26:53 pm
That was the Camelot, no?  Now it's a Quiktrip.  

There was at one time Camelot, Trade Winds West immediately south of Camelot, a Stratford House Inns just east of Riverside Drive on the east bound service road and the one just east of the Belaire shopping center.

All of those were pretty much on life support in 1981, Stratford came in the late 80's and did not last 10 years, and all that's left is the one behind the Belaire.

My high school prom and senior breakfast was at Camelot in 1981 and it was in sad shape then.

For those that remember KAKC, their studios were in the Trade Winds West.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Tulsan on December 23, 2021, 09:41:46 pm
What is to stop them from diverting the undergrounding funds to tree trimming at the last minute?  Bait-and-switch we have seen before.


The new additional 1% franchise fee will be controlled by CoT.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsabug on December 24, 2021, 05:59:01 am
For those that remember KAKC, their studios were in the Trade Winds West.

Kalling All Kool Cats when it was an actual rock station but that was before my time. Just recently it's gone from sports to crazy town talk radio.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: patric on December 24, 2021, 10:39:34 am
The new additional 1% franchise fee will be controlled by CoT.

I asked my district councilor for the specifics on that and never heard back.  Is there a link to it somewhere?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Tulsan on December 24, 2021, 12:54:07 pm
I asked my district councilor for the specifics on that and never heard back.  Is there a link to it somewhere?

The ballot language was approved by City Council in November and will be on the Feb 8 ballot.  The Council website is SNAFU so I couldn't pull the initiative language/franchise agreement.  But here's the most recent World story: https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/new-pso-franchise-fee-agreement-on-tulsa-ballot-feb-8/article_9d818f88-46f8-11ec-9659-172862b3c5a3.html.

Quote
The new agreement would add a 1% charge to fund the maintenance and repair of public ways, such as streets, highways and rights of way. The fee is expected to raise an estimated $4.5 million a year, or $76 million over the life of the agreement.

The bulk of the maintenance funds would go toward a citywide utility line burial program and converting the citys highway lighting to LED lights.

The lede got buried by the lefties pushing for a 100% renewable commitment from PSO.  This went nowhere but delayed the agreement for awhile.  What should have been the headline is that Tulsa's utilities ROW improvement budget just got a $4.5 million/year bump.  From what I gather, the intent is to bury lines as part of new arterial rehabilitations going forward, including the entire stretch of Peoria that is set to be rebuilt over the next 5-7 years.

Once I can find the franchise agreement itself, I'll post it as a new topic.  This is exciting stuff.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: patric on December 24, 2021, 02:15:22 pm
The ballot language was approved by City Council in November and will be on the Feb 8 ballot.  The Council website is SNAFU so I couldn't pull the initiative language/franchise agreement.  But here's the most recent World story: https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/new-pso-franchise-fee-agreement-on-tulsa-ballot-feb-8/article_9d818f88-46f8-11ec-9659-172862b3c5a3.html.

The lede got buried by the lefties pushing for a 100% renewable commitment from PSO.  This went nowhere but delayed the agreement for awhile.  What should have been the headline is that Tulsa's utilities ROW improvement budget just got a $4.5 million/year bump.  From what I gather, the intent is to bury lines as part of new arterial rehabilitations going forward, including the entire stretch of Peoria that is set to be rebuilt over the next 5-7 years.

Once I can find the franchise agreement itself, I'll post it as a new topic.  This is exciting stuff.

It is an opportunity to do the streetlighting upgrades that PSO put off under the auspices that for some reason couldnt happen under the present, expiring franchise.
Right now the upgrades are only to replace the expressway lights that we recently spent $10 million on.  And even those involve the older technology LEDs that have a garish blue cast that many cities have had to come back and re-do.
 
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/regionals/south/2016/10/21/use-led-streetlights-grows-concerns-over-blue-light/KHONmxG20h6CcRRlslbsiM/story.html
https://gothamist.com/news/some-nyers-are-struggling-to-adapt-to-harsh-authoritarian-led-streetlights


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on December 27, 2021, 09:52:54 am
From what I gather, the intent is to bury lines as part of new arterial rehabilitations going forward, including the entire stretch of Peoria that is set to be rebuilt over the next 5-7 years.

Peoria between which streets?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: swake on December 27, 2021, 10:08:00 am
Peoria between which streets?

56th S N to 46th St N starting in 2022
46th S N to 36th St N starting in 2022
Pine to Admiral starting in 2027
Admiral to 11th st starting in 2022
11th to 21st starting in 2021 (pending utility work)
21st to 31st starting in 2027
31st to 41st starting in 2023
41st to 51st starting in 2021 (pending utility work)

https://cityoftulsa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=008f17b85c2d4b30a8af31b90ef24173/


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on December 28, 2021, 01:27:56 pm
;D just difference of opinion. I'll take the tin building in the renderings that extends streetlife and density south versus the tin building church with zero activity, pushed back from the street, and with half the site as a surface parking lot. Being across from the QT in combination that pretty much are the killer of street life that fragments anything south from the more pedestrian part of Brookside north. 

Agree, this will help fill the pedestrian connectivity void at the south part of that intersection.  As someone who lives nearby and frequents Brookside I am all for added density and new ground floor businesses. 


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: swake on January 04, 2022, 10:53:14 am
Heres whats coming. Its a shame theyre going to tear down that church for this characterless crap. Same architect as the 11th and Lewis deal (NoMa lol). Maybe they can call this one SoPa.

(https://us1-photo.nextdoor.com/post_photos/85/9a/859aa3edf0d4b0657819fa74cc6b1aad.jpg)

(https://us1-photo.nextdoor.com/post_photos/22/6c/226c6c145d58a6d42d14ba5224c63785.jpg)

(https://us1-photo.nextdoor.com/post_photos/2b/04/2b040f2b7aa691a2cd5e56cd12cd5393.jpg)

This project is in the Tulsa World today:
https://tulsaworld.com/business/local/mixed-use-development-coming-to-brookside-church-site-planners-say/article_eeac709e-6caf-11ec-937e-37086f79a4d8.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

One thing I had no noticed, that the World has photos of, is that the church is boarded up and they are taking down the stained glass on the inside. This project seems to be happening quickly.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: patric on January 04, 2022, 12:47:09 pm
This project is in the Tulsa World today:

What stood out to me was this:

The congregation began meeting at 3105 E. Skelly Drive, Suite 304, in November but plans to move into a modern church facility in the new development once it is completed.

The design team is assessing what features of the existing church buildings will be retained, if any, the Ross Groups Kevin Symcox wrote in an email. The church building was constructed in 1952, property records indicate.


...so this mixed use also includes... a church, the way I read it.  That will be interesting.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: shavethewhales on January 04, 2022, 03:24:18 pm
That's awesome, although I imagine it will be annoying for those living in the building. I live catty-corner to a church and I can feel the vibrations from their music every sunday. The worst part is all the kids running around screaming outside though. I wonder what they will do for kids spaces?

This development is a home run, and has become one of the projects I'm most excited to watch develop. I see that there is already pushback from the usual crowd though. The same old complaints about traffic are being repeated ad nauseum.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsabug on January 05, 2022, 07:26:12 am
What stood out to me was this:

The congregation began meeting at 3105 E. Skelly Drive, Suite 304, in November but plans to move into a modern church facility in the new development once it is completed.

The design team is assessing what features of the existing church buildings will be retained, if any, the Ross Groups Kevin Symcox wrote in an email. The church building was constructed in 1952, property records indicate.


...so this mixed use also includes... a church, the way I read it.  That will be interesting.

I've been noticing a lot of churches going up for sale and relocating to smaller abodes if they relocate at all (that's a whole other discussion). The Agape church at 2111 S Darlington between Yale and Sheridan just went up for sale for $1m. It's got a neat mid-century style entrance but not much beyond that. I can imagine some developers will mow it down and build 6-8 new houses on the land since it's not often new midtown residential lots pop up and this is almost 3 acres.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on January 25, 2022, 01:43:08 pm
56th S N to 46th St N starting in 2022
46th S N to 36th St N starting in 2022
Pine to Admiral starting in 2027
Admiral to 11th st starting in 2022
11th to 21st starting in 2021 (pending utility work)
21st to 31st starting in 2027
31st to 41st starting in 2023
41st to 51st starting in 2021 (pending utility work)

https://cityoftulsa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=008f17b85c2d4b30a8af31b90ef24173/

I've noticed work being done along Peoria around 17th, is this related to the street reconstruction?  Per that schedule it would've started last year.  It will be really nice not having the utility lines along this stretch.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: LandArchPoke on January 28, 2022, 01:25:12 pm
Mondos is opening their new location this weekend on Brookside


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsabug on February 27, 2022, 06:06:45 pm
I've been noticing a lot of churches going up for sale and relocating to smaller abodes if they relocate at all (that's a whole other discussion). The Agape church at 2111 S Darlington between Yale and Sheridan just went up for sale for $1m. It's got a neat mid-century style entrance but not much beyond that. I can imagine some developers will mow it down and build 6-8 new houses on the land since it's not often new midtown residential lots pop up and this is almost 3 acres.

The church at 2111 S Darlington is showing sale pending now so I'm waiting for the bulldozers at this point.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Red Arrow on February 27, 2022, 09:53:46 pm
I've been noticing a lot of churches going up for sale and relocating to smaller abodes if they relocate at all (that's a whole other discussion). The Agape church at 2111 S Darlington between Yale and Sheridan just went up for sale for $1m. It's got a neat mid-century style entrance but not much beyond that. I can imagine some developers will mow it down and build 6-8 new houses on the land since it's not often new midtown residential lots pop up and this is almost 3 acres.

So if there is nothing really memorable, like a Frank Lloyd Wright design, why is this not a good thing?  It would get more property on the tax roles.  I like big lots but the urbanistas would probably like at least 20 houses or apartments on that site.

Edit: Make that 12 to 15 houses for 3 acres rather than 20.  But, 20 could fit. Where I grew up was approx 1/8 acre lots, 2 story houses.  Sorry for the bad arithmetic for Tulsa developments.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsabug on February 27, 2022, 10:38:43 pm
So if there is nothing really memorable, like a Frank Lloyd Wright design, why is this not a good thing?  It would get more property on the tax roles.  I like big lots but the urbanistas would probably like at least 20 houses or apartments on that site.

Edit: Make that 12 to 15 houses for 3 acres rather than 20.  But, 20 could fit. Where I grew up was approx 1/8 acre lots, 2 story houses.  Sorry for the bad arithmetic for Tulsa developments.

No - you misunderstand me - I'm all for tearing it down. It never really made any sense to me as it's sitting on a really huge lot that it doesn't use (or keep up very well). If they needed money they could have just sold the unused space to developers but I think the real issue is their congregation was too small to cover the basic bills and even a lump of cash in the bank would have only delayed the inevitable.

The area it's in has lots of larger 2-story homes with small lots so I think a dozen similar houses will fit nicely in the area.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on February 28, 2022, 03:23:34 am
The land that the church sits on is two separate properties which are both zoned RES SINGLE-FAMILY MEDIUM DENSITY DIST [RS2], and the last construction on the property is dated 1974 according to the Tulsa County Assessors Office

https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R99315931523210&go=1 (https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R99315931523210&go=1)

https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R10675931506000&go=1 (https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R10675931506000&go=1)

so it could be developed into residential housing. The property as a church itself dates back to the late 50's early 60's and a church has been on the property since. In 1971 or 1972 I had football practice there, and friends that I went to school with at MacArthur/Whitney/Nathan Hale attended that church back then.

Yeah, it's a nondescript structure with no historical significance, so you could just plow it over and shove some more houses in there. Hey, maybe you could do the same with St. Pius Church and school. It's just another Catholic/Christian Church, who needs it?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsabug on February 28, 2022, 03:30:13 pm
The land that the church sits on is two separate properties which are both zoned RES SINGLE-FAMILY MEDIUM DENSITY DIST [RS2], and the last construction on the property is dated 1974 according to the Tulsa County Assessors Office

https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R99315931523210&go=1 (https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R99315931523210&go=1)

https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R10675931506000&go=1 (https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R10675931506000&go=1)

so it could be developed into residential housing. The property as a church itself dates back to the late 50's early 60's and a church has been on the property since. In 1971 or 1972 I had football practice there, and friends that I went to school with at MacArthur/Whitney/Nathan Hale attended that church back then.

Yeah, it's a nondescript structure with no historical significance, so you could just plow it over and shove some more houses in there. Hey, maybe you could do the same with St. Pius Church and school. It's just another Catholic/Christian Church, who needs it?

I'm not saying tear it down because it's a church - I'm saying there is no real historical or architectural reason to save it in it's current form. Architecturally neighborhood churches, like this one, are forgettable as most were built on the cheap with just a quick nod to prevailing architectural styles. Same as say lots of 30's small retail buildings which were just square brick structures with some quick and cheap deco frills on the faade. Or current strip malls with faux Italian villa towers (shudder). Hardly enough to make them memorable or warrant putting them on the The National Register of Historic Places. Now - if it was St Pius sitting there then I'd be the first one to tie myself to the front doors to keep it from being torn down. But this ain't that.

Also - who knows - maybe someone bought it to continue it on as a church but I really can't see that happening which is why I'm speculating a land developer bought it to build some houses (which, even before the current crazy housing market, houses in this area hardly ever were for sale more than a week). Neighborhood churches are on the decline for lots of reasons - Megachurches like GUTS taking all the parishioners (and their donations) and such - so you better get ready for a lot of them being torn down by developers to build houses. For better or worse that's just the reality on the ground.

Personally I've always wanted to find a church with a cool nave and convert it into a garage like Nostalgic Motoring did - (http://www.bughaus.com/Tulsanow/Tucker-01.jpg)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: TulsaBeMore on March 04, 2022, 09:13:49 pm
I'm not saying tear it down because it's a church - I'm saying there is no real historical or architectural reason to save it in it's current form. Architecturally neighborhood churches, like this one, are forgettable as most were built on the cheap with just a quick nod to prevailing architectural styles. Same as say lots of 30's small retail buildings which were just square brick structures with some quick and cheap deco frills on the faade. Or current strip malls with faux Italian villa towers (shudder). Hardly enough to make them memorable or warrant putting them on the The National Register of Historic Places. Now - if it was St Pius sitting there then I'd be the first one to tie myself to the front doors to keep it from being torn down. But this ain't that.

Also - who knows - maybe someone bought it to continue it on as a church but I really can't see that happening which is why I'm speculating a land developer bought it to build some houses (which, even before the current crazy housing market, houses in this area hardly ever were for sale more than a week). Neighborhood churches are on the decline for lots of reasons - Megachurches like GUTS taking all the parishioners (and their donations) and such - so you better get ready for a lot of them being torn down by developers to build houses. For better or worse that's just the reality on the ground.

Personally I've always wanted to find a church with a cool nave and convert it into a garage like Nostalgic Motoring did - (http://www.bughaus.com/Tulsanow/Tucker-01.jpg)

I spent 8 years of my young life at St. Pius.  My (long late) grandfather was a lighting manufacturer's representative and contractor consultant.  He helped Pius get the specially made sunray ceiling lights created.  We grew up with the Moellers who donated the land Pius sits on.  Great memories.  Great school & people.   




Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsamatt on May 31, 2022, 08:33:43 pm
Quote
Mixed feelings in Brookside neighborhood over Raising Cane's plans

TULSA, Okla. Fast-food chain Raising Cane's is looking to add to its Tulsa portfolio with a new location in Brookside.

A proposed plan would bring it to an empty building near East 37th Street and Peoria. Best Electric and Hardware at that location closed about two years ago and the building has remained vacant and has become a nuisance in the neighborhood.

Im really surprised, no one has taken up this building yet, or torn it down, and done something with it, and someone is wanting to, Bruce Watts said. Watts lives in the neighborhood near where the restaurant would come in.

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/mixed-feelings-in-brookside-neighborhood-over-raising-canes-plans



Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on June 01, 2022, 03:11:58 pm
Hopefully the planning commission denies Raising Cane's at this location.  It does not conform to the Brookside Village master plan


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: shavethewhales on June 01, 2022, 03:19:59 pm
Yeah, unless they want to do an urban concept without a drive through this is a wasted opportunity for the neighborhood and the space and allowing it will make it easier for more crappy development to get through instead of the high quality dense infil we want.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: swake on June 01, 2022, 04:17:49 pm
This sounds awful, not the right place for a fast food drive through. They can easily find a location south of 41st and no one would care.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: LandArchPoke on June 05, 2022, 09:06:19 pm
This sounds awful, not the right place for a fast food drive through. They can easily find a location south of 41st and no one would care.

Hopefully they won't approve it. I don't understand why Brookside doesn't have a more recent small area plan, that would solve a lot of these issues.

Raising Canes has plenty of urban style stores in other cities, they're just being lazy with the design and hoping the city will just rubber stamp it. I'm not against them locating there but they should adapt to the neighborhood like they've done in other cities or find a spot south of 41st in Brookside that is more auto centric already.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsamatt on June 13, 2022, 10:59:14 am
This was posted on Nextdoor. Not the best photo but you can see it's about as far from pedestrian friendly as you can get.

(https://us1-photo.nextdoor.com/post_photos/65/48/6548713251accb08128a916aa43d08f3.jpeg)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on June 13, 2022, 11:19:26 am
Yeah no way they approve that site plan. Take that garbage south of 41st


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: swake on June 13, 2022, 01:16:28 pm
This was posted on Nextdoor. Not the best photo but you can see it's about as far from pedestrian friendly as you can get.

(https://us1-photo.nextdoor.com/post_photos/65/48/6548713251accb08128a916aa43d08f3.jpeg)

No, No, No, No.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: ELG4America on June 30, 2022, 04:21:10 pm
Its Brookside. I am confident the worst possible option will be the one the community backs.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on June 30, 2022, 11:12:59 pm
They made some changes to that site plan eliminating the drive in front of the building and adding an outdoor seating area.  I would still like to see this denied and have the city make them build to the corner.  If you oppose this plan show up to the meeting on July 6 at 1 pm

 http://tulsaplanning.org/tmapc/agendas/exhibits/Z-7663.pdf (http://tulsaplanning.org/tmapc/agendas/exhibits/Z-7663.pdf)



Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on July 06, 2022, 09:01:09 am
They made some changes to that site plan eliminating the drive in front of the building and adding an outdoor seating area.  I would still like to see this denied and have the city make them build to the corner.  If you oppose this plan show up to the meeting on July 6 at 1 pm

 http://tulsaplanning.org/tmapc/agendas/exhibits/Z-7663.pdf (http://tulsaplanning.org/tmapc/agendas/exhibits/Z-7663.pdf)



If anyone is interested the TMAPC meeting is today at 1 pm at City Hall.  


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 06, 2022, 09:19:24 am
If anyone is interested the TMAPC meeting is today at 1 pm at City Hall.  

I was hoping to go but can't make it. Hopefully some show up. I can't believe the Brookside Business Association is endorsing this.

The two curb cuts on Peoria is ridiculous. Raising Cane's has dozens of examples of more urban locations in similar neighborhoods or in downtown locations. It's possible for them to build an urban format store they are just being lazy, they don't want to spend the extra money to design a custom site plan for the site.

Hopefully people show up and ask for better for this site. If I was Ross Group I'd be up front and center, this will kill just about any hope for decent pedestrian flow south with this and the stupid Jimmy Johns/Bank of West and is going to significantly decrease the desirability of the retail spaces for people walking they want to build in that mixed-use proposal.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on July 06, 2022, 03:01:46 pm
I was hoping to go but can't make it. Hopefully some show up. I can't believe the Brookside Business Association is endorsing this.

The two curb cuts on Peoria is ridiculous. Raising Cane's has dozens of examples of more urban locations in similar neighborhoods or in downtown locations. It's possible for them to build an urban format store they are just being lazy, they don't want to spend the extra money to design a custom site plan for the site.

Hopefully people show up and ask for better for this site. If I was Ross Group I'd be up front and center, this will kill just about any hope for decent pedestrian flow south with this and the stupid Jimmy Johns/Bank of West and is going to significantly decrease the desirability of the retail spaces for people walking they want to build in that mixed-use proposal.

Jimmy Johns/Bank of the West bugs me, hopefully with the development across the street it is long for this world.  That is the gateway to the most walkable stretch of Brookside.

I think CBC is planning something on the property to the east along 36th.  They are also a partner in the 195-unit 36th & Peoria mixed-use project "The Avenue"


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsamatt on July 07, 2022, 04:29:12 pm
Unfortunately, I was unable to attend. I'm hearing it was approved. Anyone know if any changes were required?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on July 08, 2022, 11:01:14 pm
With the Crow Creek bridge now finished I am interested in what the city plans to do to connect Brookside to the river and Gathering Place.  

Also anyone else not a fan of the white rocks they used on both sides to stabilize the creek banks?  I feel like something more natural like sandstone would look better but maybe that is just a short-term solution?  A better long term solution would be to use a similar sandstone like what already exists along Crow Creek creating more of a canal from Zink Park to the river.  Get rid of the white rip rap and replace with sandstone walls that can be done in conjunction with the Crow Creek trail


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsabug on July 23, 2022, 07:40:47 am
The church at 2111 S Darlington is showing sale pending now so I'm waiting for the bulldozers at this point.

Just a quick update - it looks like the church got sold to another church. They've been tearing stuff out for the past few weeks and piling it outside - looks like parts of the nave - even chunked some crosses. They paid $860k for it - quite a bit down from the $1m asking price. I guess on the positive side they seem to have some money so hopefully they'll spruce the church and the land up a bit.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Jeff P on July 28, 2022, 02:46:43 pm
With the Crow Creek bridge now finished I am interested in what the city plans to do to connect Brookside to the river and Gathering Place.  

I believe Peoria (which is in shambles following the increased traffic from Riverside being closed for 3 years) is supposed to be re-built in between 31st and 41st starting next year from one of the recent(ish) Street packages.

I wonder if that includes making Brookside proper more pedestrian friendly, like they did with Cherry Street?


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on September 10, 2022, 10:50:07 am
Senor Tequila closed their Brookside location.  Not sure how long they had been there but its been a long time.  I remember when it used to be City Bites.  One of the better restaurant spots, great opportunity for something new.  Please no burgers or pizza.  🙂


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Jeff P on September 14, 2022, 01:25:57 pm
Senor Tequila closed their Brookside location.  Not sure how long they had been there but its been a long time.  I remember when it used to be City Bites.  One of the better restaurant spots, great opportunity for something new.  Please no burgers or pizza.  🙂

Yeah they have been in that spot at least 10 years... maybe longer?  I think The Brook may be the only Brookside restaurant that has a longer tenure...


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on September 14, 2022, 02:18:35 pm
Yeah they have been in that spot at least 10 years... maybe longer?  I think The Brook may be the only Brookside restaurant that has a longer tenure...

Brookside by Day and Cafe Ole have been there awhile too.  Doc's has been there since the early 2010's.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: swake on September 14, 2022, 02:48:00 pm
Brookside by Day and Cafe Ole have been there awhile too.  Doc's has been there since the early 2010's.

Brookside by Day and Cafe Ole have been there 25-30 years. They predate the Brook by a lot. And don't forget Weber's has been in Brookside for 89! years, and Claud's has been there 68 years. Elmer's which did close and move during the pandemic has been in Brookside at three locations for 40+ years. In The Raw has been there 20+ years.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on September 14, 2022, 06:59:13 pm
Hopefully whatever goes in there they expand the first floor patio, or better yet add a rooftop patio


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsabug on September 15, 2022, 06:44:42 am
Brookside by Day and Cafe Ole have been there 25-30 years. They predate the Brook by a lot. And don't forget Weber's has been in Brookside for 89! years, and Claud's has been there 68 years. Elmer's which did close and move during the pandemic has been in Brookside at three locations for 40+ years. In The Raw has been there 20+ years.

Claud's has been in business since 1954 but their Brookside location didn't happen until 1965 when they bought the Van's Hamburgers location there:

(https://digitalcollections.tulsalibrary.org/digital/api/singleitem/image/p15020coll1/638/default.jpg?highlightTerms=van%27s)

Before that they were on Admiral. I'm not sure when Van's opened on Brookside (they had other locations) but I think it was the mid 1950's (the city claims the building was built in 1955 but they aren't very accurate on older stuff). Shame that Claud's doesn't redo the original Van's sign with neon and such (since it's still there) and ditch that 60's-era (?) sign they have now. I think their current sign should have a lantern on top as signs from that era are prone to.

Bonus - the old Claud's sign before the current one:

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/71927529_2881365701891132_4227400816119513088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=973b4a&_nc_ohc=XNG9k7I6C_MAX-GlnfX&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AT9Glh4AkzdQoFPfhZ16KGO-60OSxlni0-K8GrkvXSmSKA&oe=6346E96A)

Is now at Ron's Hamburgers in Skiatook

(https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.ca93aad4afa63a834ec1bbf37188f134?rik=Mh6rzx51fKbINQ&riu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.roadarch.com%2f11%2f4%2fronshamburgers.jpg&ehk=C8Q1EQ%2fiJ429Ikq1DbJBGu3FBmoMpOGLaMD0GPBW2fs%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0)


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Red Arrow on September 15, 2022, 09:11:16 am
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/71927529_2881365701891132_4227400816119513088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=973b4a&_nc_ohc=XNG9k7I6C_MAX-GlnfX&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AT9Glh4AkzdQoFPfhZ16KGO-60OSxlni0-K8GrkvXSmSKA&oe=6346E96A)

Under the window indicates "Open Wednesdays"

Were they only open on Wednesdays?  Was something special about Wednesdays?



Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Red Arrow on September 15, 2022, 09:18:46 am
Claud's has been in business since 1954 but their Brookside location didn't happen until 1965 when they bought the Van's Hamburgers location there:

(https://digitalcollections.tulsalibrary.org/digital/api/singleitem/image/p15020coll1/638/default.jpg?highlightTerms=van%27s)

That stretch of Peoria sure has changed since then.

https://goo.gl/maps/qJQ4nbV7MXJbRbN88




Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: swake on September 15, 2022, 10:00:13 am
Claud's has been in business since 1954 but their Brookside location didn't happen until 1965 when they bought the Van's Hamburgers location there:

(https://digitalcollections.tulsalibrary.org/digital/api/singleitem/image/p15020coll1/638/default.jpg?highlightTerms=van%27s)

Before that they were on Admiral. I'm not sure when Van's opened on Brookside (they had other locations) but I think it was the mid 1950's (the city claims the building was built in 1955 but they aren't very accurate on older stuff). Shame that Claud's doesn't redo the original Van's sign with neon and such (since it's still there) and ditch that 60's-era (?) sign they have now. I think their current sign should have a lantern on top as signs from that era are prone to.

Bonus - the old Claud's sign before the current one:

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/71927529_2881365701891132_4227400816119513088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=973b4a&_nc_ohc=XNG9k7I6C_MAX-GlnfX&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AT9Glh4AkzdQoFPfhZ16KGO-60OSxlni0-K8GrkvXSmSKA&oe=6346E96A)

Is now at Ron's Hamburgers in Skiatook

(https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.ca93aad4afa63a834ec1bbf37188f134?rik=Mh6rzx51fKbINQ&riu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.roadarch.com%2f11%2f4%2fronshamburgers.jpg&ehk=C8Q1EQ%2fiJ429Ikq1DbJBGu3FBmoMpOGLaMD0GPBW2fs%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0)

Wow, good finds. Thanks


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsabug on September 15, 2022, 12:40:05 pm
That stretch of Peoria sure has changed since then.

https://goo.gl/maps/qJQ4nbV7MXJbRbN88




Indeed - the dirt roads were certainly charming! It's amazing how Brookside in the early 50's was waaaaaay out in the boonies.

Interestingly the building next to Claud's is still there but just has a different canopy around it and the windows on the side seem to be blocked off. The Brown's Auto Service that was there became Brown Volkswagen - the first VW dealership in town. They moved down Brookside a bit to 4212 S Peoria - that building is still there but the 2nd floor has been lopped off. I'll update this post with some pics later today.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: swake on September 15, 2022, 02:28:28 pm
My grandparents lived in Brookside for 60 years. They moved to 36th St near Utica in the mid 1940s and back then 36th was a dirt road and ended two doors down from their house. They were at the very edge of town.


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Red Arrow on September 15, 2022, 04:11:38 pm
My grandparents lived in Brookside for 60 years. They moved to 36th St near Utica in the mid 1940s and back then 36th was a dirt road and ended two doors down from their house. They were at the very edge of town.

My 1971 Phillips 66 street map of Tulsa (& OKC) only goes as far south as 71st Street plus a tiny bit.




Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: shavethewhales on January 18, 2023, 10:33:59 am
Anyone know the story behind Holy Moses Brewing? It's been under construction for a couple of years on the south end of Brookside. Looks like they made slow but steady progress for about a year and a half, but the last update was from last April. Anyone happen to know if they are still alive? Apparently covid/supply chain issues really hampered them. Bad timing...


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: SXSW on January 18, 2023, 02:03:34 pm
https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/tulsas-brookside-sees-big-changes-coming-in-new-year (https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/tulsas-brookside-sees-big-changes-coming-in-new-year)

Interested to know more about the BOK at 33rd.  I've heard rumors of a boutique hotel with a restaurant and a BOK branch remaining on the ground floor. 


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: tulsabug on January 19, 2023, 05:01:05 am
Anyone know the story behind Holy Moses Brewing? It's been under construction for a couple of years on the south end of Brookside. Looks like they made slow but steady progress for about a year and a half, but the last update was from last April. Anyone happen to know if they are still alive? Apparently covid/supply chain issues really hampered them. Bad timing...

Sounds like any project I do on my house!  ;D


Title: Re: Brookside
Post by: Red Arrow on January 19, 2023, 10:26:15 am
Sounds like any project I do on my house!  ;D

The last 10% of any project always takes 90% of the time.   ;D