|
Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: RecycleMichael on July 15, 2008, 09:19:34 pm It was an excellent turnout. There are a lot of people interested in this program and I was pleased so many people want to be involved.
Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: dsjeffries on July 15, 2008, 11:21:52 pm I was impressed with John Fregonese, and can't wait to become more involved. Being one of those sought-after young, creative people, I hope I'll have several chances to give my input. Also, to play with maps and draw things the way I want them.
Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: mrsgrizzle on July 16, 2008, 05:08:43 am I had a great time last night and enjoyed learning how this will all work. I'm really looking forward to watching this process unfold. I think the maps project is going to be a very interesting way to gather public opinion. I also appreciated the great examples of Portland, Seattle and other cities and think we are in a position to learn a lot from them. It was nice to see people walking out in clusters talking about Tulsa's future. I can't wait to see how many turn out for the map planning days.
There was a gentleman in the back videoing the speakers - does anyone know where that presentation will be available? Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: TheArtist on July 16, 2008, 07:15:01 am Yes, it was very informative. Learned some interesting tidbits. It is great to hear and see what other cities have done so that you have a broader range of possibilities to think about. Its really going to be interesting to see the map project and see the different ideas emerge as to how Tulsa should develope into the future. Are we going to be downtown centered, or multinodal? My guess is that we will have a mixture of both.
I think the 2 most contentious conversations are going to be about 1... infill and zoning. What areas you want to be stable, what areas you want to have high density infill. 2... Transportation. Do we want to tie up all our transportation dollars for a long time with a big plan to fix the roads over a long period? Or start with a short term plan that can enable us to change directions and put more attention towards mass transit options. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: sgrizzle on July 16, 2008, 07:24:54 am Fregonese was better than the architect. I have trouble caring about concept drawings for other cities. Heck, I'm not that interested in concept drawings for this city unless I know it is for something with a reasonable chance of being built.
I will be more excited if I see more of this "tell us what you want and fight for it" mentality they were talking about. I hope to attend the september events although having them Monday & Tuesday seems weird. The recorded version of the meeting will be shown on TGOV in 2 parts. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: TheArtist on July 16, 2008, 07:31:54 am quote: All that contemporary architecture made me drool lol. Lot of it was absolutely beautiful. Two other tidbits I found interesting. 1... The idea of valuable property, above your head and even above existing buildings. I thought it was fascinating how there were so many older buildings that they had developed right on top of. Or that say a church parking lot can still stay, but you build on the property that exists in the air 10 feet above it. The church still owns the ground property for their parking needs, but they can lease out the air property above to developers. 2... You could hear an audible gasp when he would show you large 15 and 20 sory, mixed use, buildings that had just been built and him say "and we didnt add a single parking space" or something to the effect of "there are 175 new lofts in this building and we built 50 parking spaces for the tennants". Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: TURobY on July 16, 2008, 08:29:36 am I was surprised to see a fairly diverse turnout. Typically at these events, you see a lot of elderly and adults, but there were a good chunk of young adults in attendance as well. Similar with racial makeup. The proportions were eerily comparable to Tulsa's overall demographics.
Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: TheArtist on July 16, 2008, 08:57:25 am I know. I was out in the lobby afterwards complaining that it didnt look like the crowd was that mixed, that there werent any blacks represented. Then not but a couple seconds later a group of them walked out of the auditorium. Still wish there had been more but the PlaniTulsa people did say they were going to have a meeting soon in the Greenwood area. So it does look like they are reaching out to different areas and different groups. Perhaps TN should consider getting The Eagle to run info about meetings like this that we have?
Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: MichaelBates on July 16, 2008, 09:27:26 am quote: I thought I saw someone with TGOV setting up a camera before the meeting. Perhaps it will be on Channel 24. I hope so, as I had to leave early to hit two other events. By my count, we had 120 people there at 6:15. I went to Shades of Brown later that evening and came across a lively discussion between a group of under-30s -- two of whom had been at the meeting -- about what, if anything, could be done to make 71st & Memorial more urban. I encouraged all of them to sign up at planitulsa.org and to plan to attend one of the workshops. Someone in that conversation expressed concern that he wasn't well informed enough about urban planning to participate. I assured him that all that was needed is his interest in the topic, coupled with the willingness to use his observation skills and imagination. The best writers and thinkers on urban planning -- people like Jane Jacobs and Jim Kunstler and Roberta Brandes Gratz -- aren't trained planners or architects, but are rather keen observers of what works and what doesn't. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Conan71 on July 16, 2008, 09:33:56 am quote: No one from east Tulsa? Recycle was there. Wait, we all know he's just a strategically-placed sock-puppet for the oligarchy. [;)] Am I imagining, or did Fregonese address us when we had the TN gathering at Topeca after the BOK tour? If that was the guy, yeah, I'm pretty impressed. I would have gone, but they keep scheduling these meetings where it conflicts with my rowing schedule. We've got someone from INCOG in the rowing club, maybe I need to see if she can change these large-scale public forums to suit my personal schedule. [}:)] Sounds like a great and well-recieved forum. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: RecycleMichael on July 16, 2008, 10:47:22 am quote: I gategorically deny I am strategically placed. I am more of a random sock puppet. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Double A on July 16, 2008, 12:14:21 pm quote: Ditto. An hour and a half of self promotion, followed by a half hour of Q & A was not the forum I was expecting. It's a shame the forum ended without everyone who bothered to show up and submit their questions having the opportunity to get their questions asked. The fact remains that this plan is still woefully underfunded and is being rushed for purely political purposes. I hope you all got the message that the public wants this Comp plan update to go to a public vote for approval and adoption. Any other method is unacceptable, period. If this is a truly public process, the public should have the final say. I have to disagree with the assessment that race is the biggest division in Tulsa. It's the economic divisions that divide Tulsa more than anything else. It was refreshing to hear Frego touch on this, however briefly, stressing the importance of mixed income development as an important piece of the the puzzle to create a thriving, vibrant community. To bad this usually falls on deaf ears with the Tulsa Now crowd. P.S. real diverse crowd there, BTW.[sarcasm off] Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: PonderInc on July 16, 2008, 12:37:29 pm There was actually an hour of presentations and an hour of Q&A. Ken did a great job of consolidating similar questions so that we could get through them all. (Which we did.) AA, did you ask a question that didn't get answered? I stayed around after the meeting, and I didn't hear anyone complain that we didn't get to their question. However, you've got me thinking that anyone with questions should post them, and maybe we can get them answered on this forum.
I was excited to see how many people stuck around to chat in small groups after the meeting ended. I hope they were all coming up with strategies to get their neighbors, co-workers, etc involved. As Fregonese pointed out, if everyone in the crowd (135 was my final count) talks to 5 people...that's a pretty good start. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: sgrizzle on July 16, 2008, 12:40:42 pm quote: Nuke Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: PonderInc on July 16, 2008, 12:44:06 pm quote: This is great news! I was especially happy to see a lot of younger people at the meeting. And I'm glad to hear they were chatting about it afterwards at a coffee shop! I'm glad you encouraged them to get involved regardless of "formal training." It doesn't take a degree in urban planning to understand what you love about a town, what you hate, and what you would like to change/improve. All you have to do is live your life, pay attention, and imagine the possibilities...if so, you're qualified! Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: TURobY on July 16, 2008, 12:47:01 pm I did see an older gentleman raise his hand at the end after the meeting was ended, and so I suppose his question was not answered. I'm curious to know if he submitted his question via notecard as instructed and it wasn't asked, or if he just wanted to ask his own questions without utilizing the appropriate channels.
Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: RecycleMichael on July 16, 2008, 12:52:08 pm quote: I won a bet with another poster that doubleA would find five or more reasons to be negative about last night's meeting. I bet he would claim it was all rigged, his questions were purposely ignored, all the room was all cheerleaders from midtown who all look alike. I also thought he would add that the process was rush and political and he would make a disparaging remark about the Mayor. I was impressed that he skipped the last one this time and I also underestimated his creativity to add threats that the process wasn't public enough, despite being the most open process in the city in decades. Nothing that is done will ever be good enough for him. He is obsessed with class envy and can't accept the fact that any of the leaders are worth our patience. This meeting had an excellent crowd, despite happening on a busy night. The types of people I saw and met were from very diverse backgrounds. This process is going very well, despite his grumblings. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Double A on July 16, 2008, 01:14:37 pm quote: Really? Why was Wormtail suggesting the forum continue to get to the remaining questions, then? If the video of this event is broadcast on TGOV unedited, it will show that. It will also show that the presentation portion lasted longer than the hour you suggest. BTW, did it ever occur to you that those who showed up to ask questions at the event might not have access to the internet? If you really want this process to be inclusive, making those assumptions doesn't work towards that goal. BTW, I am not the only one who has posted that they were disappointed that the forum was so presentation heavy. One more thing, why was there a microphone in the audience if the forum Q&A was going to be administered through a question screener? Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Double A on July 16, 2008, 01:18:25 pm quote: Hey dumb****, OSU Tulsa is in Greenwood. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: PonderInc on July 16, 2008, 01:27:29 pm To promote the event, TulsaNow sent out press releases to all major media outlets (TV, radio, print) a week and a half before the event. We also sent out personal emails to individuals from various diverse communities asking them to help spread the word. We got good coverage from TV and radio prior to the event, but nothing from Urban Tulsa (which surprised me) or the Oklahoma Eagle. The TW included a tiny bit of info on the meeting in an article about the PLANiTULSA polling/research results.
I definitely saw some new faces at the event. And different individuals said that they heard about it on the radio or TV, etc. But I would definitely like to reach more people. It's just hard to reach folks with kids or people whow work long hours or two jobs or whatever...that prevents them from going out at night for a public event. If anyone has good ideas for more effective outreach, please share. (We did consider calling the event "Free Beer" or "Bedlam Football"...) Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Double A on July 16, 2008, 02:23:33 pm quote: Once again, Spincycle exhibits the telltale signs of a pathological liar confronted with the truth. The last Comp Plan update was developed over a six year period. This is being rushed to be done half that time so Da Mare can claim it as an accomplishment before her term is over. The last Comp Plan Update cost $700,000 in the 70's. To date, I am only aware of $500,000 allocated for the current Comp Plan Update. Adjust that for inflation, and do the math. Ridicule it if you want, it doesn't change the fact that it is true. I do have something positive to say about last night's meeting and that is those in attendance resoundingly voiced their support for a public vote to approve and adopt this Comp Plan update. Needless to say, I am not surprised to see that you would view that as a negative. BTW, if you want the public involved, how about making a schedule of the Partners and Advisors meetings available at these functions. Or is pesky public participation not desired at these meetings? Are these meetings and corresponding agendas posted anywhere? There is nothing on the PlaniTulsa website. Nothing on the city of Tulsa website. Do they even allow public comments at these meetings? Do these meetings even have to comply with the open meetings laws? If the public would like to attend these meetings, will they be welcomed? You should know, considering wifey has the inside track. So put your money where your mouth is and start posting this information if you really want public participation and to instill public trust in this process. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: PonderInc on July 16, 2008, 03:13:54 pm The mic was there in case we had a low turnout. With a large crowd, many people are uncomfortable standing up to ask questions. (Public speaking being the number one phobia people have...) Also, people who DO get up to ask their questions tend to ramble. (If it has to fit on a card, they're more efficient.) Using the mic with a large crowd would have simply reduced the number of questions that we could get answered....and the number of people willing to ask questions.
Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: RecycleMichael on July 16, 2008, 04:10:03 pm quote: You really should try to have the facts when you make up innuendo. The handout last night said the process has a timeline that runs through December 2009. That means the plan won't be finished till after the November 2009 election. I know you just want to find ways to hate the people involved. Last night was a great chance for people to get involved. There will be plenty more chances for every voice to be heard. Face it. your whining when everybody else participating really shows your bias. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Double A on July 16, 2008, 04:36:43 pm quote: Uh, Spincycle, the fact is this timeline (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=061116_Ne_A14_Mayor12059") was announced before that election date was changed. Just for the record, to quote the Whirled: Mayor sets deadline for city plan update By KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer 11/16/2006 Last Modified: 3/30/2008 4:41 AM Mayor Kathy Taylor is shooting to have the city's comprehensive plan update completed before her first term in office ends in 2009, the Tulsa Metropolitan Area Planning Commission learned Wednesday. Your spin is just so easy to expose for lying sack of s*#t it is. Now, how about the scoop on those Partner/Advisor meetings? C'mon, put your money where your fat mouth is, honey. All you have to do is ask wifey for that info and share it with the rest of us in this oh so open and public process. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: swake on July 16, 2008, 05:05:06 pm quote: Is this really needed? Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: OSU on July 16, 2008, 05:33:18 pm I attended last night and was impressed with what I saw. I just graduated from OSU last year so I guess that makes me part of the desired "young professional" demographic. Since I graduated I have been trying to get out of Tulsa as if my life had depended upon it because I have perceived Tulsa as lacking a vision for the future.Portland is actually one of my original target cities along with Austin and Boston as my top cities. I'm glad that Tulsa is making strides to update its plan for the future and hopefully encourage me to stay. If Tulsa can move in the direction of Portland i.e. mixed use structures in an urban environment serviced by light rail or other efficient public transportation, I'll stay for the long haul.
p.s. I don't "know" anyone off of this forum; I know recyclemichael from TV reports, but I would chance a guess that I sat near DoubleA or some other angry man who mumbled to himself after every point in the presentation. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: inteller on July 16, 2008, 06:09:33 pm quote: point proven. let the disenfranchisement begin! BTW, Frego is a good public speaker, but thats about it. His almost rock star worship around here as some savior is getting a little ridiculous. I thought the architect had more substance. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: PonderInc on July 17, 2008, 01:10:26 pm quote: I think that it's especially important that younger people get involved in this process. You guys know what you want...and you know why you want to leave Tulsa. (We can try to guess what you want, but it's better if ya'll just speak up!) Recently I was talking to a "YP" to get some marketing ideas for reaching out to the younger generation. Her ideas blew me away...and reminded me how little I know about FaceBook and MySpace...and, by extension, communicating with folks in their early 20's. Please spread the word...especially to HS & college students and recent grads...that we need them to participate in PLANiTULSA. I know that there will be some specific efforts to connect to younger folks, but it's best if the momentum and excitement comes from within. Talk to your friends about it. Stay informed. Get busy brainstorming. And most importantly, show up at the community workshops en masse! City-Wide workshops will be Sept 22 and 23. Neighborhood workshops will begin in January. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Double A on July 17, 2008, 11:54:26 pm Will PlaniTulsa do "outreach" at DFest?
Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Double A on July 18, 2008, 04:37:07 am What happened to the videos of some previous Tulsa Now land use forums(i.e passing the popsicle test (http://"http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=passing+the+popsicle+test&sitesearch=#"), CORE proposals (http://"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6426877398336929177&ei=PnCASOLCNIHk4AL6p7iPCw&hl=en"),Building the 'Beautiful' Back Into Tulsa" (http://"http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=passing+the+popsicle+test&sitesearch=#")etc.)? I thought there used to be links to these on the TulsaNow website. I think these would be good resources to review that were generally well received as we discuss the comp plan update.
Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: PonderInc on July 18, 2008, 10:09:58 am quote: This is a great idea. I would encourage anyone who wants to get involved and help spread the word to contact the Planning Department and ask for cards and information to help disseminate. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: PonderInc on July 18, 2008, 10:14:06 am quote: Look on the "resources" page for some of the links to videos and past events. I think the links to other videos are buried in the archives of the TN home page. We'll try to make them easier to find. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: TheArtist on July 18, 2008, 12:51:08 pm quote: Ummm that goes without saying. The gist was that they were going to have one in Greenwood to reach out to a specific part of the community. You were there and heard them mention it and know the context in which it was mentioned better than those on here who didnt. It was mentioned in the context of having OTHER meetings in the FUTURE in different sections of the city to get people involved who live in those communities, they were talking about diversity and trying to include different groups. They listed the different areas and Greenwood was one of them. I think they mentioned where in Greenwood it was going to be, and it wasnt OSU Tulsa. And if it is there, they are still going to have another meeting in Greenwood to specifically reach out to a specific group of people. I noticed that you and I seem to agree one one issue that will need to be addressed and that I think we both find important. That is affordable housing. As Downtown and other areas do start to infill there is a risk that large areas will start becoming affordable only to the middle and upper income levels. I am not sure if its in the purview of the Comprehensive plan, but it would be nice to see some type of requirement, incentive, financing mechanism, where new developments either have a percentage of their housing be affordable, or pay into a fund to help build affordable housing... Not sure of the different ways of making something like that work or how other cities do it. But I would be interested to learn and if you have any info or concern about it I would be glad to work with you and help push for that. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Double A on July 18, 2008, 12:55:54 pm quote: Thank You. This is another great resource that needs to be considered as Tulsa updates The Comp Plan: Multi Hazard Mitigation Plan Update (http://"http://www.rdflanagan.com/Tulsa2008PublicMHMP.html") There is a power point presentation that airs on TGOV that is much better than the link I provided, IMO. I can't seem to find the video on the internets, though. Here's a link to a UTW article on this subject: Not If, but When? (http://"http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A21215") Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Double A on July 18, 2008, 01:32:47 pm quote: Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Double A on July 21, 2008, 12:15:48 pm Here is another good resource for folks to consider as they contemplate the Comp Plan Update:
COHN Presents - How Do We Save Our Historic Resources in Tulsa (http://"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7930751932760841720&q=tulsa+hitoric&ei=h9GESK30HYWu-wGipvD1AQ") Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Double A on July 24, 2008, 02:52:36 pm Still waiting to hear when those Partners and Advisors meetings are being held. How about pointing us towards some agendas and minutes from these meetings? Will it take filling an open records request to get this info? Has Queen Kathy set this up so these groups don't have to comply with the open meetings act? Still waiting.
Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: SXSW on July 25, 2008, 10:19:10 am quote: I'm hoping the same thing for Tulsa. I live in Norman now and work in OKC (getting a graduate degree at OU) but I recently lived/worked in Denver. I am going back and forth between heading back to Denver, a very progressive transit-oriented city, or Tulsa, my beloved hometown. I work in design/build development and there are great opportunities for me in both cities but more in Denver (my emphasis is on commercial and residential infill projects in urban and/or historical neighborhoods and districts). However there will be more if we develop a great Comp. Plan that takes examples from cities like Portland, Austin, etc. Tulsa definitely has the potential. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: RecycleMichael on July 26, 2008, 12:10:09 am quote: Yes they were. I saw Theron Warlick passing out little flyers about PlaniTulsa on Detroit last night. I tried to offer him a beer, but he was busy trying to talk to a small crowd of people. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Double A on August 02, 2008, 01:18:12 am Survey Says (http://"http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A24392")
My favorite excerpts: Six items were ranked as high priorities by at least 70 percent of the respondents: Repairing and maintaining streets, improving public education, new economic opportunities and jobs, clean air and water, improving public safety and health care. Another five items topped 60 percent: Renewable energy sources, keeping young adults in Tulsa, support for small business and entrepreneurs, affordable housing for students, seniors, and working people, and harmony among the various racial and ethnic groups in the city. Repairing and maintaining streets was considered a high priority by 84 percent citywide, deviating only slightly by region. (There was a curious racial difference on the issue: 90 percent of whites called streets a high priority, but the same was true for only 70 percent of non-whites.) The numbers for each high priority were fairly uniform across regional and racial groups, with a few notable exceptions. A slightly larger proportion of Downtowners and Midtowners ranked clean air and water (84 percent vs. 76 percent), keeping young adults in Tulsa (75 percent vs. 66 percent), and making renewable energy available (73 percent vs. 68 percent) as high priorities than Tulsa as a whole. Fewer Downtowners, Midtowners, and south Tulsans were concerned about affordable housing than in other parts of the city (58 percent Midtown and 55 percent south vs. 63 percent). South Tulsans, who are mainly not in the Tulsa Public School district, put slightly less priority on public education than the rest of the city, but not by much (75 percent vs. 80 percent). The most dramatic regional differences came further down the list of priorities. Overall, only 31 percent of Tulsans consider Arkansas River development a high priority, with the strongest support in south Tulsa (41 percent) and Midtown (38 percent) and the weakest support in east (20 percent) and north Tulsa (22 percent). West Tulsa was close to the citywide average at 30 percent. There was a 19-point gap for limiting immigration. Forty-nine percent of Eastsiders considered it a high priority, versus only 30 percent of Midtowners. There was a consensus (83 percent) that north Tulsa has not received enough attention and resources, while 65 percent said the same about west Tulsa. Despite the broad agreement over priorities, the survey revealed a widespread perception of a disconnect between leaders and citizens. These problems were felt most keenly in north, east, and west Tulsa. "City leaders in Tulsa understand my community's needs." Fifty-two percent of Midtowners and 48 percent of south Tulsans agreed with that statement, but only 27 percent of Northsiders and Westsiders did. Citywide, the statement polled 39 percent agreement, a stunning statement of no confidence in city leadership. "I do not feel included in the planning process. People like me are always left out." Majorities agreed in north (59 percent), east (52 percent), and west Tulsa (51 percent). Fewer than a third of Midtowners (32 percent) and Southies (31 percent) agreed. Sixty percent of non-whites agreed, versus 38 percent of whites. Forty-four percent was the overall total. "I'm concerned the plan will be too influenced by those who have a lot of money." Seventy percent of Tulsans agreed with that statement, which received strongest support from Northsiders (80 percent), Westsiders (74 percent), and Eastsiders (71 percent). The statement received a lower level, but still a majority, of support in south Tulsa and Midtown--about 60 percent. The gap between Midtown and south Tulsa on the one hand and north, west and east Tulsa is not surprising. Maps of election results showing support for various tax increases, of where appointees to city boards and commissions live, and of those selected to the PLANiTULSA Advisers and Partners reveal a common pattern. Rather called the skepticism about carrying out the plan "pervasive." It came up both in the in-depth interviews and in the broader survey polling. She said, "A lot of people feel like it doesn't matter how you plan. Folks that have a lot of money, or a lot of influence get to do what they want." Rather characterized what she was hearing from Tulsans about the planning: "We engage in the public process, we go to these meetings, we do the hard work, but at the end of the day our expectations are not met." She urged action to ensure that this plan has a real chance to avoid that fate. Maybe the most hopeful sign was that there was near-unanimous agreement with this statement: "Assuming people like me participate in the plan and the plan is carried out fairly by the city, I think Tulsa will change for the better as a result of it." Ninety-one percent of Tulsans concurred, with no significant variation across the city. But there are two very big assumptions in that statement. The second assumption is at the mercy of city officials. The approval of the Bomasada development in Brookside by the TMAPC and the Council and the TMAPC's approval last week of John Bumgarner's rezoning of the southwest corner of 14th and Utica from residential to high-intensity office both send the signal to the public that plans don't matter in Tulsa. If someone has enough money and influence, he can build anything he wants, anywhere he wants. The river tax vote demonstrated that, even a recent plan, developed with a great deal of community input, will be drastically modified if someone wealthy demands it as a condition of a gift. (That perception is reinforced by how much time and effort was invested in discussing the $788 million Channels concept, an even more radical departure from the river plan developed by INCOG.) Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: PonderInc on August 04, 2008, 01:49:41 pm If thousands of citizens participate in PLANiTULSA to create a vision for the city, and then follow through by continuing to participate in the civic realm...there should be plenty of political will to support that vision. (This will include updating the zoning code to support the comp plan.) Anyone who fails to respect the voice of the community, should expect to be voted out by an (actively engaged) citizenry.
Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: MichaelBates on August 04, 2008, 02:12:41 pm DoubleA, if you're going to quote that much, you may as well quote the rest of it -- just three more paragraphs, and the last two in line with what PonderInc wrote:
quote: Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Double A on August 04, 2008, 09:47:58 pm quote: What if we want to throw out the zoning code and start fresh? Is that on the table? I've heard it isn't. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: booWorld on August 05, 2008, 06:07:42 am quote: After PLANiTULSA's Comp Plan update, chucking the zoning code and starting fresh most likely will be an option, although John Fregonese and Gary Reddick didn't seem to be in agreement on this point when they made their presentations on July 15th. We need to push this issue with the TMAPC. Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: Chicken Little on August 05, 2008, 09:44:56 am quote:I tend to agree with booworld. If you wanted to rewrite the code, what would you base it upon? The old plan? No plan at all? Once you have a new plan in place, then changing the zoning code to support that plan makes perfect sense. Double A, sometimes you find conspiracies where none exist. And when I say "sometimes", I really mean, "almost always". Frankly, I'm skeptical of the things you "hear". Mainly, this is because of the things you apparently do not hear. Are you going to "hear" what your friend Bates is saying? He wants you to "encourage every Tulsan" to participate. Did you hear that? King, big-dog, rock thrower himself is saying that we need to work together to create the "best plan possible". And here you are still trying to talk people out of it. Why? Title: PlaniTulsa and TulsaNow Post by: PonderInc on September 14, 2008, 07:24:26 pm If you'd like to see a 30-minute video of John Fregonese's presentation to TulsaNow, you can catch it on the PLANiTULSA website (http://"http://planitulsa.org/node/52")
This was filmed by TGov, and is being shown on TV at random times. |