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Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: PonderInc on July 14, 2008, 04:08:08 pm Here's the link to the current TMAPC agenda:
TMAPC Agenda (http://"http://www.tmapc.org/Agenda/Tmapc%20Agenda.htm") There's an exhibit related to the NW corner of 15th and Troost that is interesting (item #27 on the agenda). From a quick read, I believe it's a request for a PUD to change the existing zoning from Office Light and Multi-family residential to Commercial High. Not sure if that's necessary or not. It looks like they want to have retail/restaurant space, and are bringing the buildings up to the sidewalk on 15th street (which would imitate the traditional placement of retail buildings in the older sections of Cherry Street a few blocks west). They're putting the parking behind the buildings, which I personally like...except that it is a LOT of parking, and it will destroy several existing homes/duplexes. Some of the neighborhood folks are worried that a change in the zoning to CH will allow someone to "put an 8-story building" on the site. However, from reading the permit request, the maximum building height will be 35 feet, which is in line with the traditional retail storefronts on Cherry Street. (Aren't there some 3-story buildings further west...or are they all 2-story?) Discuss amongst yourselves... Anybody have better information on this? More detail? I haven't decided what I think yet, until I do more research. I'm not opposed to change just because it's different than what we have today. But I'd like to see a detailed architect's rendering to understand exactly what is being proposed. The TMAPC meeting is WED, July 16 at 1:30 PM in the City Council Room. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on July 14, 2008, 04:20:22 pm And so the economic cleansing continues on Cherry St.[:(]
Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: SXSW on July 14, 2008, 04:20:41 pm If you find out more let us know. As someone who is looking to move into the Cherry Street area in the next few years (more likely north of it though closer to Hillcrest) I very much like to know what changes the neighborhood is experiencing. It's also probably my favorite part of Tulsa, and an area that is really changing (for the better).
Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on July 14, 2008, 04:23:02 pm quote: I hope you can afford $300,000 mortgage, otherwise you are SOL. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: OurTulsa on July 14, 2008, 04:35:57 pm The zoning maps in that exhibit show that the closest lot is already zoned CH. It doesn't look like they are changing the underlying zoning at all.
I'm actually disappointed in this development. I think they could take better advantage of their urban position. While the PUD provides for 35 ft. height but those buildings only look like they're one story. And that parking lot behind the buildings are huge. I understand that some parking is necessary but man must we comply with our suburban parking requirements? I'm afraid we're Malling our urban corridors. I guess, on the bright side, the parking lots can easily be built on in the future. More interesting on that agenda is # 25! Can you say, big office building? Can you Bumgarner? (sp?) Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: joiei on July 14, 2008, 05:14:29 pm Could that be the replacement for the Chipotle that was supposed to go in across the street? I noticed the plan called for 2 restaurants and that may explain why the parking area seems so large.
Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: TheArtist on July 14, 2008, 05:39:07 pm quote: I prefer to call it "adding economic diversity" to an area thats been predominantly working class. [8D] Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: SXSW on July 14, 2008, 06:16:23 pm quote: There are some fixer-uppers in that neighborhood that are reasonable. Price goes down a bit once you go north of the BA I've found, although that's changing quickly. And I remember a proposal for an office building at that very site at Peoria and the BA from a few years back. It's a great location with one of the best views in the city. Anyone with an office there would be very lucky. I hope it's a good design whatever it is. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Conan71 on July 14, 2008, 07:18:31 pm quote: You better jump on it now, not in a few years. Bumgarner is buying all the "fixer uppers" and mowing them down. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: sgrizzle on July 14, 2008, 09:01:56 pm This may be for Chipotle that couldn't occupy the building across the street.
Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: cannon_fodder on July 15, 2008, 08:42:31 am I don't understand the "no change" mentality. It is also odd that we consistently want to see Tulsa grow and improve, but when it does we complain about how it is growing and then when it improves the gripe is that it costs too much. I'm not talking about discussion what you like/dislike about the change... I mean just dropping in to say it's bad and moving along.
The reason Cherry Street is unique is because at some point the residential character the neighborhood was changed. As it continues to grow people in the future will relish the area even more as it attracts more development, density, and diversity. 2 or 3 story building sounds great too me, too bad our parking requirements mandate the demolition of existing structures for lots though... Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: OurTulsa on July 15, 2008, 10:02:45 am quote: That nice big parking lot eats into the density that was achieved in that neighborhood. Unfortunately, these buildings are only going to be one story; no res or office on top. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: TheArtist on July 15, 2008, 10:55:20 am quote: That kind of redevelopment I do not like. If it were adding density, or just adding quality, fine, but a new building that decreases density and adds surface parking. Not a good exchange. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: carltonplace on July 15, 2008, 02:49:52 pm I think a variance on the parking requirement would be approved based on location. I've seen TMAPC do this for mid-town and downtown developments before.
Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: mac on July 15, 2008, 03:02:47 pm The more important item on the TMAPC is the zoning change request at 14th and Utica.
They want to change the zoning to OH. OH would allow just about any kind of development including another "One Utica Place". Check out what uses are allowed by right under OH. Is this really appropriate on or even very near to Cherry Street? http://www.incog.org/City%20of%20Tulsa%20Zoning%20Code/Content.htm Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: carltonplace on July 15, 2008, 03:06:25 pm I haven't seen what is planned for that spot, but I know Mr B. is the developer. Expect Big and Italianate.
Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Renaissance on July 15, 2008, 04:26:17 pm If you click through the "Exhibit" link at #27 on the agenda you can get an idea of what's going in. They're replacing about six houses with a four-storefront building fronting Cherry Street and a 40-spot parking lot behind the building. It'll have the same feel as that Subway but closer to the curb without the street parking. The parking lot will back up to the MLofts housing on Troost.
It's kind of infill, but not really. It is replacing low-density residential with high-density retail and a fair bit of parking. Would be nice if the parking standards were relaxed somewhat to allow for less of a lot backing the building. But at least they would be building to the curb. Jury's still out for me. This just continues the Cherry Street facelift--but too much plastic surgery starts to look pretty artificial. I worry about loss of charm in the area. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: inteller on July 15, 2008, 05:55:12 pm quote: switch that sentence around and I think your off to a good start. what a ****er. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: inteller on July 15, 2008, 05:56:02 pm quote: aka, big steaming pile of ****.....what that **** calls "classy"..oh and I'm sure it will require lots of curb cuts and entrances spilling into nearby neighborhoods....along with an obligatory punch in the mouth. I wonder when this town will have had its fill of this neighborhood destroying menace. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Renaissance on July 15, 2008, 06:04:37 pm quote: I think he was talking about that site at 14th and the service road. Seems better suited for office space than other lots he's built on. I don't have a problem with it. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: inteller on July 15, 2008, 07:04:34 pm it is a shame shame shame that none of those old houses were preserved. I know one of the ones there on that corner looked like it had good bones.
I can say without a doubt that the architecture being demolished is of higher quality than the dreck he will throw up. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: LongtimeTulsan on July 15, 2008, 10:52:51 pm Zoning goes with the land not the conceptual plan. Once it is changed to OH -- the detail site plans could have anything on it -- to the max allowed - in fact it won't matter. Using the PUD as the favorite tool for developers means - no consideration will be given for the surrounding area. None. No consideration for the neighborhood plans or the vision the neighborhood has stated.
Look at the Bomsada plan for 41st & Peoria if you want to see a crushing example of ignoring the surrounding neighbors and the work of many many people with the Brookside Infill Plan. The character of Cherry Street is hand and glove with the utilization of old buildings for modern usages. The area use to have affordable housing within walking distance to a variety of neighborhood services. The concept of neighborhood walkability includes "play, work, and live" and implies that daily services are within walking distance. Not bar and restaurant heavy which are all disposable income dependant. Think about it. The projects on 15th will no doubt pass. Why? Because the main justification for these projects lies in the phrase "Tulsa needs sales tax dollars" and "we have to think of the developers' rights". Because INCOG isn't comprised of planners, but swifty staffers who manipulate the zoning code to satisfy a very few developers. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: TheArtist on July 16, 2008, 07:29:29 am One of the tricky things about true walkability and urban living is that you do need a lot of people living in an area. I found it interesting at the PlaniTulsa event where the presenter showed lots of areas that were very mixed in their density. Right next to a 20story mixed use building with a large living component you had smaller 2 or 3 story buildings that had retail on the ground floor. You often need a pretty good chunk of people in an area to support a grocery store. They showed us several examples where a grocery store was on the ground floor with living above. I reeeeally was amazed when he would point at a huge building and say "we didnt add a single parking space for that building".
Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on July 16, 2008, 03:16:31 pm quote: Economic diversity by wiping out all the affordable housing in the area? Stay Classy. That's kinda like calling the second rate Bouguereau knock offs you paint museum quality fine art. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: dsjeffries on July 16, 2008, 03:29:15 pm quote: Talk about staying classy. Do you have to be such a mean-spirited, hate-filled, cynical old nattering nabob all the time? Do you enjoy putting everyone else down while digging yourself a bigger grave? All you're doing is making yourself look like a bitter, old, unhappy moron. (http://cosmicvariance.com/wp-images/getoffmylawnunbrand.jpg) Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: PonderInc on July 16, 2008, 03:50:39 pm quote: Is that PUD-437? I can see it on the map of the other exhibit, but I don't see it on the agenda for the TMAPC. Where can we find details of this development? Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: carltonplace on July 17, 2008, 08:21:47 am quote: Sorry, I should have been specific. Mr B is currently moving dirt at 14th and Utica where The Mercury Motgage building, 4 houses and an apartment building once stood. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on July 18, 2008, 02:46:13 am Chipping Away... (http://"http://www.batesline.com/archives/2005/03/chipping-away.html#more") The Chamber wants to remake Midtown (http://"http://www.batesline.com/archives/2003/11/chamber-wants-t.html#more")
Deja Vu. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: mac on July 18, 2008, 08:57:25 am It is Z-7102, OL/RM-2 to OH.
PonderInc you make a good point. There are no details about this project anywhere. In the exhibit it lists uses as "offices". INCOG staff is recommending a change in zoning from low intensity to high intensity without either knowing what the property will be used for or not revealing it. Is a high rise high intensity office building really appropriate in this area? The comp plan recommends low intensity in this area and states that any thing more should be proposed as a PUD. With a PUD the public will have at least have an idea of what will go in. We are going through a long process of updating our comp plan. Will the new one be disregarded by INCOG so blatantly as the current one? In my opinion OH is best used in the downtown area and from what I am hearing, people are begging for developments there. Why place it in the middle of a residential/light office area without a vision of how it will mesh with its surroundings?? Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on July 18, 2008, 02:49:55 pm Anybody privy to the site plans? It should be public record.
Someone please post a link to these plans. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: OurTulsa on July 18, 2008, 04:10:25 pm quote: Keep in mind that our current Comp Plan is over 30 years old. Times have changed. While that corner might be marked for low intensity that consideration might have been consious of the residences immediately behind which are almost all completely gone now. That neighborhood has changed. While I would love a PUD there so details related to how the building relates to the street can be hashed out I think the zoning makes sense when considering the Utica corridor between Hillcrest and St. John and the site's location right on the BA! Since this is a straight rezoning application there is no site plan...and even if there was the City couldn't hold him to it therefore it wouldn't be a basis for support or denial. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on July 19, 2008, 11:38:27 am quote: Yes, it has changed, but it hasn't changed that much. OH is too high intensity for that area. This project should be done as a PUD. This is exaclty the type of project that should be going on in the CBD, not Cherry St. Why aren't developers interested in building projects like this there? Sell them the land the city is vacating for the Krystal Kastle. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Rico on July 19, 2008, 05:30:22 pm So as I understand it... Bumgarner met with the residents in the area today.
Must have been uneventful...? anyone now know what is to be built? [}:)] Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on July 19, 2008, 06:06:01 pm quote: If he gets this change he'll be allowed to do anything that is allowed under OH zoning(no height restrictions, btw). My understanding is it will be a 8 story building with structured parking. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on July 19, 2008, 11:22:56 pm Look at all the available property downtown (http://"http://www.tulsalandopportunities.com/home.html") that Bumgarner could be doing this development on without any hassles, zoning changes, public hearings, TMAPC or Council approval. Under the CBD zoning that exists on these properties the developer can do everything Bumgarner wants to do by right, without asking for the changes he is requesting for the Cherry St. location.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p315/TYProle/site2_zoomout_full.jpg) Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Rico on July 20, 2008, 07:46:36 am quote: Sounds like a Medical Building. When Charles Norman argued the "Yorktown" affair... he referred to Utica between 11th St and 21st St as a "Medical/Hospital Corridor".. In fact I believe he stated that to be the "original plan" for the street. Whether that is true or not I haven't a clue..... Norman must be on vacation as Bumgarner has second chair "Brother Roy" arguing this one. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: inteller on July 20, 2008, 07:49:45 am quote: Bumgarner is zoning abuse personified. When people think of undue influence of the wealthy, he is the poster child. He owns half the council and most of the TMAPC. No one will deny the **** what he wants. He has a track record of finding properties in or near corridor districts and then arguing that they should have all existing restrictions stripped off and returned to something like CBD. I agree with others, **** like this should be in CBD....but he wants his Philbrook penis envy lookalike **** to be close to his utica place monstrosity.....just wait, he'll turn all of 15th and utica area into the same socal italianate dreck. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: inteller on July 20, 2008, 07:53:15 am quote: you sound just like one of Bumgarner's cronies in front of the TMAPC. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: TheArtist on July 20, 2008, 08:20:19 am I would like to see him develop in downtown as well. Would have liked to have seen the Bomasada development go downtown as well.
BUT, downtown is not as attractive a location. Its all about location, location, location. Until downtown turns into the kind of place where these developers will want to go... all the available property in the world wont make a difference. That location on Utica is a great location, near a beautiful wealthy area, near the trendy Cherry Street, etc. Whats downtown in those areas you point to, to make it as attractive? Sad thing is, the one developer who was wanting to build something new down there "The 120 lofts" is being treated like crap and given the runaround. Its like the cartoon dam that is springing leaks. You stick your finger in one hole, then a bit over another leak happens, stick a different finger in that one, then yet another leak starts, and so on. Downtown is difficult to develop in and not as attractive. The finger is firmly held on that hole so developers "leaks" look for other areas, the best areas are around Utica, Cherry Street and Brookside. So the developments "leaks" happen there. You block them and the next leak is going to be in the suburbs,,, not downtown. If we could get downtown going it would take a lot of pressure off Brookside and Cherry Street and make it easier to hold the line there. You could indeed say "why dont you build downtown" you cant honestly say that now, because its not attractive, its not a "fair" or in any way desirable exchange. After having watched Brookside and Cherry street struggle for decades, go into decline, shops and restaurants close and sit empty, then move up a bit, then stagnate again and now both seeing steady growth. I am happy to see growth. My fear is that if we hinder what people are wanting to do there, we wont see it anywhere because at any time the economy will collapse again. So to me its like, lets get something versus getting nothing. We can argue about appropriatness of these developments, but I personally dont mind the ones I have seen so far, so have no incentive to stop them. If there were options downtown or other desirable areas then I could reasonably say "why not build it here instead?" But since there arent those options... and I am faced with the experience of seeing us losing developments and Tulsa stagnating... I dont like this situation. Wish Tulsa was growing gangbusters and bursting at the seams with these types of developments. But we are not, we are just barely seeing any growth. Would rather have something that I like, than nothing, even if you dont like where its at. I dont see that if we stop it in Brookside or Cherry Street that it will go downtown. We will either get nothing or it will go to the suburbs. IF the ballpark goes in, and hopefully the 120 lofts, I will change my tune because that will open up a viable alternative. If Bomasada actually goes in and some other developments in those areas happen, I will feel a little less uptight and more satisfied that things really are moving along for once. I will feel secure enough to "hold a tighter line". I am sick and tired of seeing pretty pictures of developments, then nothing happening. Sick and tired of seeing these types of developments happen in other cities, watching Tulsa fall behind and not be able to offer those kinds of things. Once we finally get something, I will feel relieved and then start paying attention to other peoples concerns about design or height or whatever. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: swake on July 20, 2008, 08:44:31 am quote: Still whining like a little b!tch over a target store on Memorial I see. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on July 20, 2008, 11:53:18 am quote: Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: inteller on July 20, 2008, 01:34:56 pm quote: see, they have successfully played you. And when they want to do something in the suburbs and we say no they threaten that it will go to Bixby or broken arrow. They have you fools figured out. They have the fear successfully made policy among the TMAPC and the city council. The always bring up the bass pro as confirmation of that fear. They prey on your low economic self esteem. Call their bluff. The bumgarners of the world don't want to locate in the suburbs or south tulsa because those places are trashy to them. Their elitist egos cannot tolerate wallowing in the development "cesspool" of SOuth Tulsa or Bixby. But they'd tell you differently. They'd tell you that it will all go away if you don't change everything on the books.....for THEM. You need to elect people with BALLS who will appoint people onto TMAPC with BALLS. Hell Liz Wright has more balls on TMAPC than ANY of those other spineless twits. If we had a TMAPC made up entirely of Liz Wrights, we'd have developers quaking in their jackboots and citizens getting the kind of development they deserve. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on July 20, 2008, 03:28:05 pm quote: Absolutely. Right now, I am focused on this. Please consider emailing the TMAPC and asking them to deny this request. Time is critical, this goes before the TMAPC this Wednesday 7/23 bhuntsinger@incog.org Please contact the Mayor and City Councilors to encourage them to deny this request and ask them to aggressively market the available property downtown that the city owns for this development. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: TheArtist on July 20, 2008, 05:15:22 pm quote: I dont recall any developer saying anything of that sort, I only know what I have seen actually happen. I wasnt paying attention to the Bass Pro thing, dont think I was on here at that time and involved in such issues so dont know anything about it. As for low economic self esteem... Businesses follow the economics. We dont say that north Tulsa has low economic self esteem and thats why they dont get developments, we say its because of crime and low income levels and if y our a developer your looking for the best place to make a buck. Does downtown have low economic self esteem? Its getting better, but heck the arena hasnt opened yet, the Mayo and First Street lofts are still under construction, the Matthews warehouse artist lofts and museum hasnt even started, park, sidewalk and streets arent done, TCC just started, etc. etc. Plus we have watched as many developments throw out big plans then for one reason or another fade away, and now small developers get the run around. In the meantime Jenks gets a billion dollar development, Bixby and BA are getting developments. And just as importantly to me is watching other competing cities get incredible developments in their downtown. I know it will all come together in a few years time, barring an economic downturn that affects Tulsa. But in the meantime I will be a bit lenient on those that want to go into Brookside or Cherry Street. There are developments that I wouldnt agree with, but so far the Bomasada for instance, though not perfect, because of its specific location and the desire for density... not gonna make a fuss about. If it had been closer to the 36th street area... no go. But off 41st behind the grocery stores and taking out those bad apartments... fine. The Bumgarner development, if its 8 stories and on 15th street, no go, but if its right on Utica next to the highway,,, not the best location for a lot of things great for an office building imo. Its often hard to quantify and list every factor that goes into why one person thinks one thing is ok in this place or another. Any one you can argue against, but all I can say is how I feel when I take into consideration all those things and how the balance of pluses and minuses weigh out. Its actually kind of tricky to be for or against the Bumgarner development when you dont know the exact details, but from what I am garnering it seems ok in that location. Its kind of off in the back corner away from Cherry Street and next to the highway and on a corridor with many other midrise buildings to boot. All in all, looking at the balance of things, to me, nothing to panic over. The other development right on Cherry Street seems worse to me with all that parking. One story and more parking. Thats not good. Sorry wont be able to read or respond for the next few days. Leaving tonight for an installation at the casino job. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: inteller on July 20, 2008, 08:22:19 pm blah blah blah blah blah. You are just blathering in circles. damn you've been so played. lenient? puh lease. If you aren't going to demand good development consistently and NOW, just when are you going to do it? And you are right, the developers don't say they are leaving, they have their toadies like Reynolds say it.
Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: brunoflipper on July 20, 2008, 09:59:32 pm jeez, lighten up, francis...
somebody needs to go map something... might make you feel better... Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: mac on July 21, 2008, 09:16:57 am I keep hearing about the "Utica Corridor Plan" but have never seen a copy of it.
Anyone know where I can locate one?? Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: inteller on July 21, 2008, 05:03:02 pm quote: i didn't make the planitulsa disenfranchisement map, you are referring to Bates. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: inteller on July 21, 2008, 05:03:40 pm quote: i'm sure its in Bumgarner's playroom. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on July 22, 2008, 02:31:40 am quote: CryptKeeper Norman is probably trying to keep a low profile and stay away from controversial, potentially high profile cases so people don't figure out he is serving on the Comp Plan Update Steering Committee. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Norman were trying to keep this off the radar. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: brunoflipper on July 22, 2008, 11:09:31 am quote: maybe, maybe not... i gis i was wrong... Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: inteller on July 22, 2008, 03:48:56 pm quote: wouldn't be the first time, and I'm sure it won't be the last. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: brunoflipper on July 23, 2008, 01:00:51 pm quote:please, you are the king of ignorant bull****... go make a map and shut the f up... Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Renaissance on July 23, 2008, 01:58:06 pm HA! I love it. Instead of telling people to piss off, from now on I'm going to start telling them to "go make a map." That'll show 'em.
Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Rico on July 23, 2008, 03:14:05 pm TMAPC just ruled in favor of the zoning change.
Does this mean that they must go before the City Council.....? or can they proceed at once to "making a map"[;)] I thought Mister Midget's comment regarding the "Comprehensive Plan" to be quite insightful. "The comprehensive plan is simply a guide.... one piece of property and another must be considered separately. No one is going to jail here" the last line.... the part I really like[}:)] Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: OurTulsa on July 23, 2008, 03:24:59 pm The TMAPC just made a recommendation to the City Council for approval of the rezoning application. Onward to the City Council.
Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on July 23, 2008, 03:35:27 pm quote: Ladies and gentlemen, this the head of the Working in Neighborhoods department. Boy, he sure is working for neighborhoods, huh? This just goes to show that this department is, was, and has always been little more than window dressing. If this decision pisses you off, write the City Council and the Mayor's office asking them to deny this application and recommend OM-H zoning, that would be in accord with the Comp plan. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: inteller on July 23, 2008, 03:55:02 pm quote: yeah, show them that you are a loon. I mean, why not go tell them to peel an apple? It makes just as much sense. brunoflipper is just pissed off because bates' map is undeniable, and the whole planitulsa committee process is a farce. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: inteller on July 23, 2008, 03:57:18 pm quote: Midget is the poster child of why tulsa needs an independent planning commission. he is just one of da mare's pets that has been appointed here. This is the same moron who suggested spike strips for one of the south tulsa targets. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on July 23, 2008, 04:37:26 pm quote: Yep. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on July 24, 2008, 12:30:56 pm Hello Neighbors,
The TMAPC meeting did not go well yesterday considering that most of the responses from residents in Yorktown were totally against the rezoning of the property from RM-2/OL to OH. There was a lot of discussion to request the Bumgarners to go through the PUD (Planned Unit Development) process and it looked for a while as if they were going to do that. However, John Bumgarner offered to file a covenant with the city stating he would only build a building with 250,000 square feet of office space, which could still be 10-12 stories. That does not include parking. The maximum size building he can build on that plot of land is 940,000 sq. ft. under OH zoning. <>They were not specific about how it should read and one Commissioner emphasized that this was a recommendation. Bumgarner needs to have this done before the application goes to the City Council (2 weeks to1 month from now). <>This decision is unprecedented and did not follow precedent with other new development properties in the area. The vote was 2 votes for denial of the rezoning and 5 for approval rezoning. <>If you want to watch the proceedings look for the July 23 TMAPC (Tulsa Metropolitan Planning Commission) Meeting on Cable Channel 24. They usually air them several times. It seems this part of our system has some problems. Councilor Christensen is suggesting we look at the process and see what if anything can be done to fix it. If you agree with this, he needs your support. Write letters to him and the other Councilors supporting this proposal. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on August 06, 2008, 10:58:23 pm Bates gave a nod to this in a recent article: (http://"http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A24392")
"The approval of the Bomasada development in Brookside by the TMAPC and the Council and the TMAPC's approval last week of John Bumgarner's rezoning of the southwest corner of 14th and Utica from residential to high-intensity office both send the signal to the public that plans don't matter in Tulsa. If someone has enough money and influence, he can build anything he wants, anywhere he wants." Hopefully, we'll see a bit more in depth coverage of this in the coming weeks before it comes before the Council for a vote. Title: 15th and Troost - TMAPC this week Post by: Double A on August 15, 2008, 03:47:04 pm They're back... (http://"http://www.tulsacouncil.org/inc/search/meeting_detail.php?id=M8WDU637182008122203")
8/19/2008 10:00 AM 200 Civic Center Room 201, Second Floor 07. Rezoning Application Z-7102, requested by Roy Johnsen, for property located at or near the SW/c of the Broken Arrow Expressway and S. Utica Ave. from OL/RM-2/CS to OH. (Property Owner: 14th & Utica, LLC.) (TMAPC voted 6-2-0 to approve OH zoning per staff recommendation.) (CD-4) [UED 8/19/08; PH 8/28/08] 08-1770-1 08. Rezoning Application PUD-760, requested by Roy Johnsen, for property located at or near the NW/c of E. 15th St. and S. Troost Ave. from RM-2/OL/CH to RM-2/OL/CH/PUD. (Property Owner: Oak Properties, LLC.) (TMAPC voted 6-0-1 to approve PUD-760 per staff recommendation.) (CD-4) [UED 8/19/08; PH 8/28/08] 08-1771-1 |