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Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: Gaspar on June 09, 2008, 09:55:47 am Hillary spent more money to lose a primary than any candidate in political history. $212 million dollars total.
Good lord! Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: sgrizzle on June 09, 2008, 10:00:34 am Ahh... Fiscal responsibility.
Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: FOTD on June 09, 2008, 10:41:06 am quote: It pales in comparison to 13 trillion..... But whew, are we not fortunate she will not be president! Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: Gaspar on June 09, 2008, 11:25:01 am Oh that old ditty. National Debt numbers are meaningless unless a comparison to GDP is included. This is the "Alarming" statistical graph that you are promoting:
(http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/USDebt_files/image001.jpg) When you plot it with the necessary comparison to GDP it looks something like this: (http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/National-Debt-GDP-L.gif) Or like this: (http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/USDebt_files/image002.jpg) The GDP provides the financial ability to service the debt, so if you compare the numbers, while our debt is substantially higher than what it has been in the past, our productivity has surpassed it so much that service on the debt is far better than it was when Bush took office and substantially better than it was previously. Tax cuts caused an increase in US productivity by 69%. During the Clinton years government was certainly in more fiscal control (Gingritch, Contract With America), and Bush did increase the debt by 7.3 trillion dollars over the existing 6 trillion shrinking Clinton era debt, but to present debt without presenting GDP numbers is silly and misleading. But I guess that's your goal. You see, Bill Gates may owe 23 million on his home, and an additional 200 million on additional investments (hypothetical numbers) that offer a lower interest rate than the rate he can achieve through investment. Only a moron would report that "Bill Gates is 223 million dollars in debt." But who knows after Vista! [:D] Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: cannon_fodder on June 09, 2008, 11:40:41 am If she gave me $110K I'd vote for her too. [;)]
Did anyone find a good number on what Obama spent? The only stat I saw said together they spent $350 Million - so his share would have been about $138,000,000. If that is correct, wow. All the stuff RM and other Hillary supporters posted about how he outspent her in XYZ state goes out the window. My guess is her blowing money left and right early on had more to do with her campaigns financial woes than anything. Reports ran early about the wasteful spending. BUT, I'd be interesting to see a better # on what Obama spent. - - - Also, per the national debt. It is the only thing I'd like to see more like during the Carter years. It's not a crisis, but it has the potential. Balance the damn budget you clowns. Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: FOTD on June 09, 2008, 11:42:32 am Who would fight the democrats over deficits for years and then turn the tables and say "it's ok now to run up enormous debt" and let's justify it by using a personal indebtedness model as a measure of comparison. They are not comparable and to do so runs counter to being fiscally responsible. I smell a repiglican!
Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: FOTD on June 09, 2008, 11:44:41 am Gasbogey, betting on the continuation of productivity at these levels to bring down the deficits and debt is a dangerous bet. We be in big trouble .....
Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: cannon_fodder on June 09, 2008, 11:55:32 am No one cited personal indebtedness numbers... he sited the overall size of the economy in relation to our debt.
For example, $10,000 in credit card debt is not that big of a for someone that makes $250,000 a year. But if someone makes $50,000 a year just servicing the debt can ruin them. Hence, wealth is a necessary factor when examining debt. But don't mistake that for arguing that the current deficit levels are acceptable to me. Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: sgrizzle on June 09, 2008, 11:59:21 am quote: Me three. If someone gave me money to do nothing, I'd call myself a democrat. On second thought, that would be kinda redundant. Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: Gaspar on June 09, 2008, 12:00:54 pm quote: We will be in big trouble, but not from this debt. From the debt that will be caused by an energy shortage. No fueley no producey! I don't condone the way Bush spent money. He was far more fiscally liberal than anyone anticipated. He took a rule from the Regan play book and grew the economy by emancipating people financially. That was his only big achievement. Had he done that and curbed spending at the same time, this would be a very different country. "Vriend van de duivel" You forget that Clinton put us in 3 quarters of negative growth. We haven't had one under Bush (though you keep telling us we're in a recession). Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: rwarn17588 on June 09, 2008, 12:05:27 pm quote: Blame the Iraq war. Wars are expensive. Poorly conceived wars are even more expensive. If you want to know why the deficits ballooned on his watch, there's the big reason. Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: cannon_fodder on June 09, 2008, 12:10:28 pm +1 rwarn.
I'm still not anti-war in the classical sense and I defended the decision. But it phase III was poorly planed. Clearly no one really thought what to do with the country once we took it over. But, I digress... if we want/need to be in a war, we need to do all we can to pay for it now. Raise a "war tax" if need be. But running a deficit as a wealthy country is just stupid when we *could* pay our own way. It'd be like putting your mortgage on a credit card when you could have cashed our a CD, and then staying a month behind in perpetuity just so you can destroy your credit rating and rack up tons of interest. Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: Gaspar on June 09, 2008, 12:13:21 pm quote: Very true. I also believe that it is nearly impossible to fight a theocracy. Faith is stronger than blood or steel, and nearly impossible to destroy! Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: FOTD on June 09, 2008, 12:17:28 pm It's fun to watch the coming around to my point of irresponsible government management by the repiglicans.....but you don't have to openly admit it. One can easily see the deceptive denials turn into mea culpas.
Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: RecycleMichael on June 09, 2008, 12:38:13 pm quote: I realize that you will just continue to hate on Hillary, even after the race is over. Truth is, Obama has spent and raised more than Hillary. His delegates per dollar are almost exactly the same as Hillary's. As of April 30th he had spent spent 224 million dollars. That is just what it costs to compete in a national race these days. And once, again, whoever spends the most wins. You are just jealous, Gaspar. Your candidate can't raise any money in comparison. Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: Gaspar on June 09, 2008, 01:14:58 pm quote: Actually I'm more sad and bitter that I didn't even have a candidate. [:(] I will stop hating on Hillary when she stops circling above Obama. In her letter to her delegates she did not instruct them to vote for Obama during the first round at the convention. She's still keeping the field open rather than pledging her complete support of the candidate. This also makes it hard for him to adopt more centrist policies as candidates usually do after being anointed. Should be interesting. I didn't really dislike her to begin with, I just distrusted her. Now that her ambition has really blossomed I feel strong dislike for her. It seems that she would do anything, say anything for power. That makes me very nervous. (http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/power.jpg) Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: we vs us on June 09, 2008, 01:30:07 pm quote: Uh, no she's not. In actuality, she HAS pledged her complete support. Completely. Not sure if you're watching the news these days or not, but perhaps you should. It might help alleviate the hyperventilation and panic attacks. Not to mention the feelings of Democratic persecution. Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: FOTD on June 09, 2008, 02:05:41 pm Apparently, worth every penny!
"Gallup Daily: Obama Takes Lead Over McCain, 48% to 42%: Has consistently led McCain since Clinton decided to suspend campaign" http://www.gallup.com/poll/107764/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Takes-Lead-Over-McCain-48-42.aspx Title: $109,823 per delegate. Post by: Gaspar on June 09, 2008, 02:14:42 pm quote: If she'd dropped out earlier, perhaps even McCain would have dropped out? Oh, lets not peak too early! |