Ya gotta love faith-based initiatives.
Polygamist sect gets millions from U.S. government
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/33510.html
"There's a lot of bad **** in there," said a high-ranking official with the federal Justice Department who did not want to be identified because of the sensitivity of the case. On Tuesday, the Justice Department executed a sealed FBI search warrant at the ranch."
The LDS were taking care of their children. Tulsa, I believe is in the number one state with children born out of wedlock. Many of the mothers are barely in their teens. We spend millions supporting the children and looking for the persons who fathered them to help support them.
Was not the 12 tribes of Israel produced by one man impregnating four women three times?
The government did serve a sealed search warrant not like the one served at Waco.
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
The LDS were taking care of their children. Tulsa, I believe is in the number one state with children born out of wedlock. Many of the mothers are barely in their teens. We spend millions supporting the children and looking for the persons who fathered them to help support them.
Was not the 12 tribes of Israel produced by one man impregnating four women three times?
The government did serve a sealed search warrant not like the one served at Waco.
Your remarks are ironic. Do you know how the members were able to tithe to the sect? A former member who has been interviewed on several news shows reveals that after these women gave birth they applied for and received WELFARE PAYMENTS! The fathers refused to admit paternity, could not legally marry multiple wives and refused to support their children. They systematically milked the government of our tax dollars. Was that anywhere in the Bible? Republicans have been elected for decades on the mere suggestion that such was happening with our tax dollars by minorities and illegals. Where is your outrage!
Births by State for Unmarried Women Page 61:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr55/nvsr55_01.pdf
3 meg file, numbers as of Sept. 2006.
I couldn't get it to paste worth a damn but here are some select numbers:
National Average 35.8% of births of wedlock (1.4million. 24.5% whites, 69.3% blacks, 46.4% Hispanics)
US Territories are way higher.
US Virgin Islands - 68.5%
Puerto Rico - 56.7%
Guam - 56.7% (etc...)
Highest States:
DC (55%)
Louisiana (49.1%)
New Mexico (48.8%)
Mississippi (48.3%)
Delaware (42.3%)
Arizona (42.2%)
South Car. (41.9%)
Florida (41.4%)
All others < 40%
Lowest:
Utah (17%)
Idaho (22%)
New Hampshire (26.4%)
Mass (28.5%)
Minnesota (29%)
North Dakota (29.9%)
Conn (30.1%)
New Jersey (30.1%)
Nebraska (30.2%)
Virginia (31%)
Oklahoma clocks in slightly above the national average at 38.4%. 31.3% for whites (national average +7), 71.7% for blacks (+2.4), and 46.1% for Hispanics (-.3). We are right next to Ohio, Indiana, Arkansas, Tennessee...
So the claim that Oklahoma is among the leaders in unwed births is absolutely false. And by and large the LDS fosters the most children born IN wedlock (judging by Idaho & Utah). Not that I hold that stats as all important or even necessarily indicative of being born and cared for by 2 parents.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Births by State for Unmarried Women Page 61:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr55/nvsr55_01.pdf
3 meg file, numbers as of Sept. 2006.
I couldn't get it to paste worth a damn but here are some select numbers:
National Average 35.8% of births of wedlock (1.4million. 24.5% whites, 69.3% blacks, 46.4% Hispanics)
US Territories are way higher.
US Virgin Islands - 68.5%
Puerto Rico - 56.7%
Guam - 56.7% (etc...)
Highest States:
DC (55%)
Louisiana (49.1%)
New Mexico (48.8%)
Mississippi (48.3%)
Delaware (42.3%)
Arizona (42.2%)
South Car. (41.9%)
Florida (41.4%)
All others < 40%
Lowest:
Utah (17%)
Idaho (22%)
New Hampshire (26.4%)
Mass (28.5%)
Minnesota (29%)
North Dakota (29.9%)
Conn (30.1%)
New Jersey (30.1%)
Nebraska (30.2%)
Virginia (31%)
Oklahoma clocks in slightly above the national average at 38.4%. 31.3% for whites (national average +7), 71.7% for blacks (+2.4), and 46.1% for Hispanics (-.3). We are right next to Ohio, Indiana, Arkansas, Tennessee...
So the claim that Oklahoma is among the leaders in unwed births is absolutely false. And by and large the LDS fosters the most children born IN wedlock (judging by Idaho & Utah). Not that I hold that stats as all important or even necessarily indicative of being born and cared for by 2 parents.
It's not unwed mothers that I recall that we are a leader in, it's teen mothers (shotgun weddings anyone?)
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?ind=37&cat=2
And we are the 7th worst state in the nation for teen births. 55.6 births per year (as of 2004), per 1000 girls aged 15-19 years old. That compares to a national average of 41.1
We are 35.3% higher than the national average. That means that for every 1,000 girls in Oklahoma that reach 20 years old there will be approximately 278 children. Obviously some teens will have more than one child during the teen years but this would lead you to believe that something like 25% of our teen girls don't reach 20 years old without a child. That's dismal, the fact that they are likely to end up in a rushed, bad marriage to go with the child really doesn't help much.
Sex education and birth control for teens is bad..mmmkay...
You are correct Swake and I considered adding something to that effect to me post - but it grew long enough as it is. But so long as the wedding is thrown together in a hurry and the child is born into a family of God, all the socio-economic problems associated with shotgun weddings and early pregnancy goes away!
My son is 8. My wife and I have been together for 12 years. But only married for 6 (or is it 7? Palm Pilot, where are you!). To fix that problem we just refuse to allow our son to go to math class... figure it works out the same for kids that are 8 who's parents have been married for 8.5 years. [}:)]
All these stats indicated that even though Oklahoma is about average in terms of children being born out of wedlock, there are more babies by teen mothers.
All this seems to indicate is that women are getting married earlier in Oklahoma. Big deal.
Forty years ago, teens getting married was commonplace. My mom got married at 18 (willfully) and had me just before she turned 20.
Well, Cannon, I would rather have some funky math compared to having a baby veryverysoon (within a year) of wedding...the snorts and eyerolls and snicker-snickers from that are pretty embarrassing too. "They wasted no time" "Honeymoon baby" etc...
[:I]
Some relatives were snotty, even though I was graduated from OU, worked as a teacher, owned a home, etc.
Then it was 2 kids in 3 years.
[;)]
Can I mention to the Big Love fans out there, how much is this like the season finale? Holy Crap. And those pictures of the women are right out of the Juniper Creek "compound"
Waterboy quoted;
Was that anywhere in the Bible?
--------------------------------
Check the books of Moses on tithing.
Ophra had a family on her program last week (man and his wives) and the interviewer, which did a good job, as the program ended she sat down in one of the chairs as one of the family.
Regardless of having been associated with persons of the church I was informed that they took care of their own welfare according to the laws of Moses.
I realize the administration frowns on posting religion items but the book of "Ruth" deals with this subject among many other places as well as the founding fathers intent in the constitution.
If prostitution is legal in NV then will it not be decided in the court that no illegal acts were preformed in the compound under federal codes?
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
Waterboy quoted;
Was that anywhere in the Bible?
--------------------------------
Check the books of Moses on tithing.
Ophra had a family on her program last week (man and his wives) and the interviewer, which did a good job, as the program ended she sat down in one of the chairs as one of the family.
Regardless of having been associated with persons of the church I was informed that they took care of their own welfare according to the laws of Moses.
I realize the administration frowns on posting religion items but the book of "Ruth" deals with this subject among many other places as well as the founding fathers intent in the constitution.
If prostitution is legal in NV then will it not be decided in the court that no illegal acts were preformed in the compound under federal codes?
Maybe Cannon can decipher your last sentence or how it relates. But as far as the rest just answer me. Where in the bible does it condone welfare fraud? Like all good conservatives know, "HAVING BABIES TO GET WELFARE CHECKS!" These people are stealing from you. They are modern day commune hippies run by pedophiles and the best you can do is the book of Ruth?
How does this figure in to Republicans or conservatives? Just because Aox posted it?
Waterboy, I got my associates in Shadow Speak some time ago and have working towards a full B.S. degree in the field. Let me try:
1) I don't think he understands yet that they took government money. He is asserting that they handled their own "welfare" as a community and took care of each other. So, instead of polygamists claiming welfare benefits in spite of a known father; he sees the government stepping into a religious community because they were handling a charitable monopoly that is supposed to be held by the government - internally.
Don't forget, just because you say something very clearly like "they were committing welfare fraud," it does not mean he will pick up on it.
2) Per his last line... I only have an associates but let me try:
My first assumption is that he is mistakenly assuming the sect was in Nevada as such sect historically have been. From there, I'm guessing he believes if it is legal to pay for sex in Nevada then these "extra wives" could be viewed as prostitutes - the men pay for their housing and food in exchange for sex. Thus avoiding polygamy charges.
This, of course, ignores the fact that it was in Texas, the welfare fraud, and that they are not charged with polygamy (nor is it a crime. The crime would be "bigamy" which is a fraudulent act upon the state - a LEGAL marriage to multiple women which entails lying to get the additional marriage licenses. But again, when deciphering Shadow Speak don't let the fact influence your interpretation.
ALTERNATELY, it could be viewed as saying "if the federal government will tolerate prostitution in Nevada then polygamy in Texas should be just s good." This has the same basic flaws as above, but is my second best interpretation.
Hope this helps the discussion.
[:D]thanks. How's the pay for that line of work?
Conan, anytime "faith based" initiatives or Welfare Queens are referred to, doesn't that automatically default to the republican party? Sort of like "jack boot" and "conservative conspiracy" default to Democrats and liberals?[;)]
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
[:D]thanks. How's the pay for that line of work?
You do it for the love of the art, not the money.
As usual, Shadows comments even make more sense when run through Gizoogle:
quote:
Waterboy quoted;
Was T-H-to-tha-izzat anywhere in tha Bible?
--------------------------------
Check tha books of Moses on tith'n.
Ophra had a family on her program last week (mizzay n his wives) n tha n**ga which did a good job, as tha program ended she sat down in one of tha chairs as one of tha family.
Regardless of straight trippin' bizzy associated wit persons of tha church I was informed tizzy they took care of they own welfare ho-slappin' ta tha laws of Moses . Bow wow wow yippee yo yipee yay.
I realize tha adminizzle frowns on hatin' religion items but tha book of #65533;Ruth#65533; deals wit this subject among many gangsta places as well as tha blingin' fatha intent in tha constitizzles doggystyle.
If prostitizzle is legal in NV then W-to-tha-izzill it not be decided in tha court that no illegal acts wizzy preformed in tha compound playa federal codes?
Now that makes sense. So we run Shadows posts through the "fosizzlator" thing before responding?
I still think he reads better in Engrish.
Check your book of Moses program, her family last week (a man and his wife) and the interviewer is often done, as she finished the program chair, sat down, but one One of the family.
Associated with a person who has been with me, and informed them of the church in the care of their own welfare law, according to Moses.
I realize the administration and post However, the book's primary religion, "Ruth" in dealing with this theme, as well as in many other places, the founding father of the spirit of the Constitution.
If law, a Nevada prostitution, but not the court's decision that there is no illegal activity, preformed compound under the federal code?
The article in the morning paper indicates that someone from the "Its for the children groups" has struck the hornet's nest as the lawyers by the hundreds are responding to the accusations in making abuse charges first then find the evidence of abuse later.
We are going to replay Waco again but this time there are some very intelligent and educated persons that belong to the LDS compounds stepping forward.
It can be dropped now or take millions and years to finalize the outcome.
Shall we continue the witch hunt for abuse in the compounds or address the teen prostitutes and teen pregnancies on our streets today? What is your solution?
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
The article in the morning paper indicates that someone from the "Its for the children groups" has struck the hornet's nest as the lawyers by the hundreds are responding to the accusations in making abuse charges first then find the evidence of abuse later.
We are going to replay Waco again but this time there are some very intelligent and educated persons that belong to the LDS compounds stepping forward.
It can be dropped now or take millions and years to finalize the outcome.
Shall we continue the witch hunt for abuse in the compounds or address the teen prostitutes and teen pregnancies on our streets today? What is your solution?
Why is addressing child abuse and welfare fraud in these polygamist compounds an either/or proposition with addressing teen prostitution?
And I think you will find plenty of teen pregnancies in both demographic groups, ie teen prostitutes and teenage wives in polygamist marriages.
I think a better question is why you are so defensive of these compounds?
The sun has set upon the righteous word of god for those that have come forth unto us have not cared for the working poor. The honor guard of the past empire wants to drag us into their games as gladiators for their amusement. Surely this empire will meet their fate.
For lunch I ate fast food, the blood of the wicked.
My solution to teen pregnancies was to stop having sex with teenagers. So far, so good.
CF: Did not Justice Cardozo in 1936 rule "by adsorption the constitution applied to all the states?"
Ones analogy would assume that what applied to Nevada would apply to all the states. If that be true then the compounds could and would be classed (by the critics) as a Red Light District and be permitted under the federal statutes. We have not addressed the same sex marriages legality yet nor has any charges been filed in this instant case.
Lets quote the amendment on religion made because the Pilgrims fled England to these shores because of the Church of England controlled the government and the churches. Lets quote how Jacob was the breeder of the 12 tribes of Israel of which is the foundation of Religion. Lets quote who was to receive the tithe stored in the warehouse in the laws of Moses.
Now if the administration will allow the posting in Pig Latin as some of the posters prefer; as having much experience in that language, I can save a lot of space by posting in Pig Latin and save the coveting space.
SWAKE: It is not my intention to defend these people but according to the article in the morning paper hundreds of lawyers are asking for a "friend of the court" status as they converge on the hearings.
How do you defend a practice that has been in force throughout all history. In this challenge, which is based upon policies of many cultures, of many civilizations, we are enforcing our beliefs through a back door approach. I am 10% religious and 90% for such a practice that is permitted by the laws of nature.
Foshizzle! One of the last four posters is the real Shadows. Can you tell which one? Log your vote in on 1-800-AmericanCult.[8D]
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Foshizzle! One of the last four posters is the real Shadows. Can you tell which one? Log your vote in on 1-800-AmericanCult.[8D]
Coffee-spitting laugh of the day!!!
Shadows: The Constitution applies to all the states, specifically by virtue the the 14th Amendment applying to the states. It doesn't have to make sense, but that is what the rule is.
Understand that the Constitution sets up a framework to operate under. As I described above, it has been held to protect certain rights. Prostitution is one party wanting to pay for sex and another party wanting to get paid to have sex. There is no constitutional right on either side of the transaction. Thus, a state is free to regulate or ban prostitution as they see fit.
So... under the Constitution prostitution is perfectly legal. As is driving 100 mph on an interstate, selling cold high point beer, a 2 tier alcohol distribution system, gambling, driving without a license, and hordes of other things... but in each case the act is not a protected right under the constitution and can thus be regulated by the states. So what is legal in Nevada, is not necessarily legal in Oklahoma and visa versa.
Currently same sex marriage is not recognized as a right under the constitution and thus is left to the States. The issue in that regard comes to the full faith and credit clause... just as Oklahoma must recognize the legality of prostitution in Nevada we have to show full faith and credit to marriages in other states. Which many don't want to do if they find the the sex life of the individuals against their tastes. So a bit of a different issue and somewhat out of the box.
- - -
On a different note, the reason you receive jabbing and of kilter responses is because your posts are nearly incoherent. In the past I, and others, have attempted to point this out in a similarly calm manner and you have ignored us. If a man entered into a conversation or, more likely, stood on a street corner and was shouting:
quote:
Lets quote how Jacob was the breeder of the 12 tribes of Israel of which is the foundation of Religion. Lets quote who was to receive the tithe stored in the warehouse in the laws of Moses.
People would quickly shuffle by and it is unlikely that people would engage in actual conversation with him.
In all honesty, many people find your most difficult to decipher, somewhat random, obscure, and often completely off subject. I try hard to find out what you are trying to get at and frequently respond - but it is a real effort and I'm not even sure I do understand. Please try to draft coherent statements as if you were sitting across the table from someone.
Otherwise it would be a safe bet that your posts will continue to be met with more ridicule than discussion. Sorry, just a fact of the world that people that don't make sense are excluded from conversation.
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
The LDS were taking care of their children. Tulsa, I believe is in the number one state with children born out of wedlock. Many of the mothers are barely in their teens. We spend millions supporting the children and looking for the persons who fathered them to help support them.
Was not the 12 tribes of Israel produced by one man impregnating four women three times?
The government did serve a sealed search warrant not like the one served at Waco.
oh I see, so how many wives do you have?
listen, one allegation was that their "leader" held the babies under a water faucet to "break them" when they cried too much.
In my fundamentalist law book, that is grounds for death right there.
There is no punishment but death for violence against children.
I am sorry that I am not an artist that can paint a picture of what I assume is a basic knowledge of fundamentals that should be available to the intellectuals of our modern society. As one of the uneducated inhalants' assigned to the passing generation by some unknown force, I do assume that with the available knowledge that one should be able to post a short post recalling the events on the table, relying on the wisdom of the learned, who is already aware of the events, if as standing on the street corner and shouting to a passing intellectual "the seat of your pants is split open" which should not require two pages of speech to inform the person of his lack of knowledge.
Thus in order to shorten the post, off times I have used a related part of an associated subject, assuming all readers with our present short tension would not give up before becoming reader bored.
Would any of the preceding posts be applicable to this statement.
Revised wording in regards to flaming, baiting and general trolling.
Shadows, my last post was very honest criticism. I think you have well structured opinions, but most readers glaze over your posts because it is either too much work or impossible to glean meaning form them. I'm sorry if this offends you.
Case in point:
quote:
As one of the uneducated inhalants' assigned to the passing generation by some unknown force, I do assume that with the available knowledge that one should be able to post a short post recalling the events on the table, relying on the wisdom of the learned, who is already aware of the events, if as standing on the street corner and shouting to a passing intellectual "the seat of your pants is split open" which should not require two pages of speech to inform the person of his lack of knowledge.
I think you are talking about people being long winded, but I'm not sure. If that is what you are trying to say - "I type short because other people are long winded" is AMAZINGLY more concise than the ramble above. The problems with decoding your statement include, but are not limited to the following:
"uneducated inhalants" - no clue what you are talking about
"recalling the events on the table" - I have guessing but not really sure
"relying on the wisdom of the learned" - clause from left field, doesn't seem to add anything
"who is already aware of the events" - again, what events are we talking about
"to a passing intellectual" - I've studied under many intellectuals, including composition, technical writing, legal writing and general communications... not a single one would advocate lengthy, cryptic, and obscure writings.
"inform the person of his lack of knowledge." - apperently you do.
Please assume we are all utterly retarded. It is apperent that everyone else is stupid, and you are a genius, so I guess you need to dumb down your posts if you want us "uneducated inhalants" to figure out whatever it is you're trying to say.
I have tried to assist you many times, I give up (again).
CF
Double quote>
{"to a passing intellectual" -?}-- I've studied under many intellectuals, including composition, technical writing, legal writing and general communications... not a single one would advocate lengthy, cryptic, and obscure writings.
We greatly appreciate the advise and information of the diplomas and studies conducted under the intellectuals that we assume now lie on the tables to be used as a table cloth..
Our concerned is based on the number of person that sign up to post their opinions, which we are grossly interested in, that disappear after posting a limited amount of times. It seems that among the unlearned commoners lie the information that affects the majority of the citizens of Tulsa. We feel the burden of having to post under the critiquing eyes of the intellectuals off times deny the unlearned a place to express their opinions. It is written in the archives that all though civilization one class has sought to dominate another. This has been accomplished through phrase picking to distort the original intent of the opinion.. So be it now.
We?
I detect some animosity towards intellectual discussion in your post and an inference that common folk can't join the party because of some snobbery or spin on the part of regulars here. Although I share some of that view, you simply must be able to support your arguments IF you want to influence other viewpoints. Otherwise, simply be content to espouse an argument you cannot support. Lots of posters do that (Cubs, Jamesrage come to mind). Hell, I do that too sometimes. Sometimes posters are just comfortable with what they believe and state their views, then find others don't agree and disappear. Maybe they want approval more than exposure to differing viewpoints. So be it.
I don't always understand what you're trying to say as your posts are laced with odd spellings (advice vs advise) and phrases that refer to history or philosophy that I don't always know. Its work. Keep in mind if no one cared, you would get no responses at all.
Shadows translation: It's *your* fault that I can't clearly explain my positions.
[}:)]
Shadows, of all the people on this message board you are the only one that I continuously try to get to post lucid thoughts. Is that because I know or care who you are and/or what level of education you have obtained - or because you write in a manner that no one understand? I know many of the posters on here do not have a day of college and I've never mocked their postings.
The reason I brought up my communications studies is because you essentially called me stupid for not understanding you posts - calling me a "passing intellectual" who didn't pick up on your references. So I retorted that I was well studied in the communication process. Seems like a fair defense as opposed to holding myself out as an elitist.
quote:
we assume now lie on the tables to be used as a table cloth..
Who is the "WE" you keep referring to? And they hang on a wall like most expensive pieces of paper. Diplomas don't mean a damn thing but-for the fact that I put forth the effort to get them.
Most of your posts suffer from subject/verb conjugation issues, missing pronouns, and phrases that lack meaning. I have gone very far out of my way to try to point out why no one responds substantively to your posts. It is apperent you don't care.
quote:
the intellectuals off times deny the unlearned a place to express their opinions.
Again, it is only you who I harass for posting unintelligible dribble.
quote:
It is written in the archives.... So be it now.
Who is trying to be the elitist? The person who writes in common language and wants everyone to understand, or the one who uses obscure (and usually incorrect) phrases and mocks people for missing his references? The reason you write in such a poor manner is because you are trying to sound like some kind of grand elitist, but you fail and no one receives any message you are trying to send.
For once, just type a normal post. As if you wanted people to understand what you were saying.
CF Quoted; Who is the "WE" you keep referring to?
We the people (pl., one or many)
(There is no need to stand and salute)
lucid?
Huh. I thought by the thread title he meant our public schools. You know, 14-year-olds mature enough to make decisions about their bodies, forced brainwashing, strict uniform requirements, hostility to opposing points of view, psychologically isolating kids from their folks . . .
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Huh. I thought by the thread title he meant our public schools. You know, 14-year-olds mature enough to make decisions about their bodies, forced brainwashing, strict uniform requirements, hostility to opposing points of view, psychologically isolating kids from their folks . . .
Had a bad school experience did you?[;)] My public school didn't require that I bed down and create babies with my teachers some 40yrs older nor did they kick me out because the ratio of boys/men to girls became too unbalanced. I don't remember being forced to apply for welfare payments as a single parent either. Maybe we went to different public school systems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVGK2Aa4uEk
rape, racism, child abuse.
Gotta love good 'ol family values.
Religiously programming children does amazing things...
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Had a bad school experience did you?[;)] My public school didn't require that I bed down and create babies with my teachers some 40yrs older nor did they kick me out because the ratio of boys/men to girls became too unbalanced. I don't remember being forced to apply for welfare payments as a single parent either. Maybe we went to different public school systems.
When WE grew up and went to school there were certain teachers who would hurt the children ANY WAY they could. By pouring their derision upon everything they did, exposing every weakness - no matter how carefully hidden by the kids. But when they got home at night their fat and psychopathic wives would THRASH them within inches of thier lives!
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Had a bad school experience did you?[;)] My public school didn't require that I bed down and create babies with my teachers some 40yrs older nor did they kick me out because the ratio of boys/men to girls became too unbalanced. I don't remember being forced to apply for welfare payments as a single parent either. Maybe we went to different public school systems.
When WE grew up and went to school there were certain teachers who would hurt the children ANY WAY they could. By pouring their derision upon everything they did, exposing every weakness - no matter how carefully hidden by the kids. But when they got home at night their fat and psychopathic wives would THRASH them within inches of thier lives!
Yes. Sounds like there's an issue there Tim.
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
Religiously programming children does amazing things...
+1
I hate it when you make me agree with you. But don't forget, while these children were "programmed" or "brainwashed" everyone else's religion is the truth. Also, Scientology's belief in a super alien is just stupid - but the idea that Mary wasn't a virgin is worthy of death threats (recent book reference).
On a more serious note, this case is an interesting study in how far freedom of religion extends. Just a ton of issues about how much we can force religion to conform to societal values. I applaud the action based on the information I have (forced marriage, pregnant 14 y/o's by the dozen, pressure to remain in the compound, etc.), but I understand their point of view that by taking action we are really just forcing our moral viewpoints on them.
So where is the line on allowing people to believe as they see fit, and telling them society knows better? Just an interesting concept to ponder (in case you haven't).
FOTD doesn't know Pink Floyd.....
I have become comfortably knumb....
quote:
Originally posted by bokworker
FOTD doesn't know Pink Floyd.....
I have become comfortably knumb....
Yes, he does....the devil is from the dark side of the moon.
The beginning of the cult or sect begin when a girl in her thirteen years, heavy with child was taken with her to be espoused to a 37 year old who was from the house of David, (who's son King Solomon, had a thousand wives,) to be counted for tax purposes. It is not clear why this child would have accompanied him.
She had been raped by an angel by our standards and brought forth in the holy city to bare a child named Jesus. From this event by hearsay was the establishing the Church of Rome in the fourth century.
This church prevailed until the end of the dark ages where it migrated into England to become the Church of England that dominated even its kings. In the meanwhile it had already been established in the fourth century AD as the Holy Roman Empire governed by a long line of Popes.
The Puritans, Pilgrims' and Quakers, to escape the King\church "my way or no way" caused the migration to the American that was a disaster at the time. Hereon was the forming a new constitutional nation for new freedoms
After the constitution was written it secrecy and it was questioned by some of the writer because it included only thing applying to government. They feared rebellion if they took it back to the states because no freedoms were guaranteed to the citizens.. After some two years lying on the table the first proposed amendments of 12 were added for benefit of the populace, therefore it was guaranteed that no infringement would be made on religion or its sane practice.
LDS, one of three independent churches, was established in America, being organized by their own modern leaders.
LDS established a home on the great salt plains and after it builds a city, which were taken over by the politicians, who caused a spin-offs into the reorganized church. They believed they were as a family, producing much of their food and buying cloth to make clothing and etc. They were a very prospers group and are very independent and self sustaining in an irritatingly way to many people. The have multiwives who live with their families in separate housing and support the education of their children.
Of the over 300 + lawyers, that gathered outside the court house, I would believe many were educated by the sect and was protecting their beliefs. Among them would be the highly intelligent.
Reading through the intertwining of first amendment it is easy to understand what was on the minds of the writers of the constitution. If we remove the intertwining we would get some five amendments instead of one; (1) Congress shall make no law respecting an establish of religion or prohibiting the establisment thereof. (2) Or prohibiting the freedom of speech (3) or of the press. (4) Or the rights to peaceable assemble, (5) and the people to petition the government for a regress of grievances.
The Texas Cult/sect took a barren land and built a city, surrounded with farm lands. True they may have used Poligmany but it was by marrage. We offftimes have couples moving together for years or frequenting bars or clubs for one nite stands. Our shool children are running out of control in a sexual revelution that is growing daily. Our teen age children are having abortions by the thousands
Those in the sect are subject to the laws of nature on replenishing the species. It is written the female of our species has 8,000 exoite sex sensors on the body they are in, while the male has only 7,000. The female is by instinct and endowed by the laws of nature to take care of their young. The back door approach being used saying the children were abused is a faborication of one person who left the compand and DrPhil on his is program said she needed help. I disagree with way of putting it on the air at this time.
The mothers by their inherented instinks have a bond between themselves and their off-springs. The children maintain by birth a close affection to their mothers. It is inhuman to take them and place them in a foster home as it will have a reflection on their personality their entire life. Are readers in favor of this act against nature? Would you want your children in foster homes? I was on a committee to teach sex education to the school children starting with the "little red hen". I think we overdid it. In the present case lets throw the stone in hand down.
Bull****.
H20! So dismissive! That was a fairly lucid albeit cryptic analysis. That is a stunning observation: child-rape by G-d's Holy Spirit! Holy smokes, look out for lighting, Shadows!
And if the 40-year-old lecher was also raised in the sect, how culpable is he for his actions? Also, are all 14-year-olds really infants in their moral and intellectual development? Do we not prosecute those snowflakes all the time as adults?
I think the sect is sick and the practice of polygamous juvenile marriage is detestable. But what to do when the good book is at odds with itself? One of the first commandments is to go forth and multiply, but Saint Paul who wrote most of the Testament 2.0 instructs Christians to avoid marriage if at all possible!
Start with the very first line of his post and put it in context of the times. The average lifespan was probably close to 40yrs. That meant that folks matured quickly and procreated at earlier ages. In redneck speak, "If she bleeds, she breeds." Sorry to be blunt but this sect apparently follows that creed. In context of todays society that is not acceptable any more than disco would have been acceptable in their time. Unless you are using your good book in a literal way to justify socially unacceptable practices as being natural but then cherry picking which natures to obey. Then beseeching society at large to view its laws in a most tortured manner that would allow credibility for things like (religiously sanctified) statutory rape. To do so could open the door to any fringe group to apply that logic using their own religious texts as substantiation of previously heinous activities like pedophilia, human sacrifice, female genitalia mutilation or bestiality to name a few.
To simplify, Bull****.
Think of the kids in a polygamist marriage. Mother's Day would cost a fortune.
Would a newborn being breastfed have a variety of flavors to choose from?
Could a polygamist who is bisexual have extra husbands and wives?
Too many questions...
I finally figured out who Shadows is...
(http://www.tvguide.com/images/pgimg/arrested-david-cross6.jpg)
Well, yes, but I'm afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I'm afraid I have something of a mess on my hands.
QuoteOriginally posted by waterboy
Bull****.
[/quote
What was the background of Mary?
Of what house did she belong?
If these events were to happen today would we use the needle instead of the cross as a form of the execution to be constantly display?
Swake quoted: As it is wrote in the goodish books, as it shall be, these of days of yore this epoch it seems the disenfranchised of McDonalds that any learner of yore could string words across a page and call it meaninglessful.
No harmed for verbs et nouns to noth agreement in fight across the yoke of impressments!
Numbers, Fridays at 9 on CBS, of the folk that readeth yon keystroked find muck! Did Solomon weep at may being?
I have a son who could get xanax in the Tulsa junior high school easer than candy who later was introduced to the stronger drugs until we spent thousands of dollars on rehab programs. As the years passed he became addicted again to meth. Meth was isolated by the Chinese 500 years ago. It supportes the little triangle at the base of the brain which gives one the sense of pleasure. Is is truly a wonder drug if used under strict control. It was synthesized in the mid 1880's. After two marriages, two- live-in and thee children it was back to the rehab.
The side effect from the drug is that at times his dialect is very understandable while at other times there seems to be a blockage as being able to speak in complete understandable words. This has been diagnosed as a side effect of the drug use which suppress the little brain triangle at its base that denotes pleasure and increases pleasure in other fields.
Now I have been educated to such dialect that they insist on posting but wonder if it is a side effect that they cannot control.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Think of the kids in a polygamist marriage. Mother's Day would cost a fortune.
Would a newborn being breastfed have a variety of flavors to choose from?
Could a polygamist who is bisexual have extra husbands and wives?
Too many questions...
You get a Bronze, but Shads still gets the Gold for the child-rape aspect of the Immaculate Deception (just KIDDING, settle down . . .) Did not qualify: "Huh, FOTD should have labeled the thread 'we finance polygamist SECTS.'"
If these weirdos did have teen 'marriages' they should come out and admit it. Concealing those occurrences proves that they feel they did something wrong to hide. It is kind of incredible that they do not have some kind of defense ready to go.