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Good job Sign Nazis for really doing a bang up job on keeping Tulsa beautiful. Not one STINKING cheapo signs ANYWHERE. But, there's MORE! Go git 'em.
51 TRO 3102.16 Excluded from Right-of-Way; Removal Authorized. No sign shall be permitted in the right-of-way of a street under any circumstances, except as provided in Section 3102.12.4. Any sign situated in the right-of way of a public street is hereby declared a public nuisance endangering public safety, and may be removed by the code official or any police officer of the City of Tulsa.
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41st/Sheridan; N/W corner; W/B.
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41st/Sheridan; S/W corner; S/B. Also, blocking wheelchair travel.
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51st/Memorial; S/W corner; S/B.
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Same location as above.
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41st/Yale; N/W corner; W/B.
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Same location as above.
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4902 S Sheridan; S/B. Portable Signs BANNED, 42 TRO 1221.C.7. (//%22http://cityoftulsa.org/OurCity/Ordinances/Title42-12.asp%22)
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2424 E 21; S/E corner; E/B.
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52nd/Memorial; S/W corner; S/B.
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41st/Hudson; N/W corner; W/B.
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41st/Darlington; S/E corner; E/B.
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Cooke Advertising
P.O. Box 594
Skiatook, OK 74070
Phone: 918-814-7446,
Fax: 918-396-9282
info@cookeadvertising.com
We request a six (6) month contract, with the first and the last month's payment and set up fees in advance with signing of the contract.
There is a one (1) time set up fee charge of $50 per bench.
Please make your selections from the locations below and let us hear from you. For your convenience we accept Visa & MasterCard.
TULSA BENCHES
1 15th & Sheridan Muffler Store, N.W. corner sits 100' West of intersection, across from Mazzio's $25
2 15th & Harvard West of Ron's Chili, (Has SignWorld sign on it) $25
3 41st & Memorial N. of 41st, E. side of Memorial, Thomas Cadillac ( Has Re/Max on it) PENDING CONTRACT 1/9/08 $60
4 31st & Mingo East of Mingo, North side of 31st, at strip mall, West of bridge $40
5 88th & Lewis In front of John Deer Equipment, West side of road (Has SignWorld sign on it) $45
6 86th & Lewis One of 2 benches, sits under big tree, across from Taco Bueno, bench faces North bound traffic $50
SURROUNDING TULSA AREA
1 Bixby, OK 134th & Memorial, West of Memorial in front of the YMCA $25
2 Bixby, OK Riverview & Stadium Rd. Bixby High School gym. West end of building $25
3 Bixby, OK 15722 South Memorial. Grey building next to JuJax $25
4 Bixby, OK 171st & Memorial. 16907 South Memorial Convenience Store $25
5 Bixby, OK 171st & Memorial. 16907 South Memorial Convenience Store $25
6 Bixby, OK 15100 South Memorial. NW corner at South end of Bixby on West side of Memorial Sutherland's Shopping Center (Moving to North end of building . Will sit between Sutherland's & Family Dollar ) $25
7 Bixby, OK 121st & Memorial. South side of 121st, 1/4 mile East of Memorial (Fire Station) $25
8 Bixby, OK Conrads Farm $25
9 Bixby, OK Needles & Cabaniss, Memorial E. to Needles (Fire Station across from Dollar General) $25
10 Bixby, OK 165th & Memorial. Memorial South of town. On the porch of what used to be The Lazy Fisherman $25
11 Bixby, OK 16 South Armstrong. 5th & A (Memorial E. on Breckenridge,S. On A St. Faces E.) Post Office $25
12 Bixby, OK Carmichaels's Produce $25
13 Bixby, OK 151st & Memorial, Orielly Auto Parts ( Has Terry Gartside on it) $25
14 Bixby, OK 151st & Memorial N. W. corner in the Sutherlands shopping center, Doc's Grocery, North of the door against the building ( Has Flora Acosta on it) $25
Sign Guy's Signs Can Be Seen Around Town (//%22http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=142816%22)
KOTV - 1/10/2008 5:59 PM - Updated 1/10/2008 7:51 PM
If you need a tree trimmer or debris removal or a roofer, you can find a name and number on a sign at just about every intersection. A coworker told News On 6 reporter Rick Wells he had actually seen a sign for the guy who makes signs. The sign guy has been so busy since the ice storm, he still has his Christmas decorations up.
Steve Laake's front yard is full of Christmas decorations, his garage workshop is full of corrugated plastic yard signs ready to be picked up and put out.
"Since the ice storm, I've made 12 or 15 hundred signs," said Laake.
His clients are local businesses letting folks know who they are and what they do. The signs are at intersections and along the road. He has his own signs out and signs about where to get more signs. He has received a good response locally, but also a lot from out of town.
"I'm getting orders from New York City, tree trimmers are here from Minnesota, Orlando, Florida. Yesterday a guy came in and ordered from Ft Lauderdale, from Arkansas-all over the country," said Laake.
The process starts on the computer in his office where he creates the design. The letters are cut into vinyl that is eventually transferred to clear plastic, which then becomes the proof to make the silk screen. Then the signs are screen printed one at a time by hand, he lets them dry then prints the other side.
"I enjoy making the signs. I do banners, business cards all kinds of stuff," said Laake.
For now it's tree trimmers and clean up companies getting all the action. He says Spring is high season for yard signs because of all the lawn and landscape companies.
Spring's not that far off, if business keeps booming he may have to print up signs asking for help with Christmas decorations.
Tulsa Yard Signs (//%22http://www.tulsayardsigns.com%22)
Here's the video (//%22http://www.kotv.com/e-clips/news/?id=11240%22)!
Hey, Steve, GET YOUR TRASH OFF MY PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY. [:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!]
I have to say, this story really bothered me too. Rick Wells basically glorified a business that makes signs that will be placed illegally. He should have mentioned that placing these signs in the right of way is illegal.
I hate these signs, as most of you know, and they have proliferated since the storm.
Mayor Taylor, please please please, get those sign removal teams busy before spring. Tulsa looks really bad right now and these eyesores will be around forever if something is not done immediately.
I would never never do business with someone who places illegal signs.
Bah, I don't blame Steve. He prints signs. Some other idiot places them all over the place.
I also don't blame Wal-Mart for selling spray paint that ends up under over passes. Ford for hit and runs. Polaroid for child pornography. Or Colt for homicides.
Of course, it would be a good business model for him to print and sell them to such idiots, and then go and pick up the illegal ones. With any luck, the dolt will buy more from him. [:)]
I don't blame the guy who makes the signs, but he does contribute to the problem.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Bah, I don't blame Steve. He prints signs. Some other idiot places them all over the place.
I also don't blame Wal-Mart for selling spray paint that ends up under over passes. Ford for hit and runs. Polaroid for child pornography. Or Colt for homicides.
Of course, it would be a good business model for him to print and sell them to such idiots, and then go and pick up the illegal ones. With any luck, the dolt will buy more from him. [:)]
But there are hundreds if not thousands of legitimate uses for spray paint. There are very few legal uses of these signs.
This guy is making the equivalent of a bong and saying it could be used for a flowervase.
I also don't blame people who make or sell drugs for overdoses.
Saw the promo and switched the channel.
Is local news so pathetic they have to resort to this type journalism? Too bad there wasn't a storm over NW Arkansas.....
I'm glad someone brought this up! I didn't see the story, but I sometimes listen to 6 in the car. I couldn't believe it!
Hey Rick Wells! What's the deal? Are you seriously that much of an idiot? Free publicity for a sign guy of all people?
I'm tired of the signs, too. Not to justify him or his business, but it may be legal to put them up in the other locals that he has been selling to.
Calling ALL Tulsa Sign Nazis!! Sign lynch mob meetup at 36th/Harvard, parking lot on northeast corner. 1000-1400. Second Saturday of EVERY month beginning. 12 January 2008.
Let's git a jump start on the City Council signs about to sprout before April Fool's Day! BYOBL. Bring Yer Own BAG and LUNCH.
Name one time you have seen one of these signs that was not in the public right-of-way. No one puts these in their backyard.
All of his customers break the law, intentionally or not. We should get some signs together and go picket KOTV.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Name one time you have seen one of these signs that was not in the public right-of-way. No one puts these in their backyard.
All of his customers break the law, intentionally or not. We should get some signs together and go picket KOTV.
Yep, RM. You are MY kinda guy. The PERFECT sign nazi! His business is AIDING and ABETTING the COMPLETE disrepect of the LAW. The business would NOT exist if his customers OBEYED the LAW.
Along with picketing KOTV, let's mob his house!
Spirit Marketing, Inc., 10005 E 39th St, Tulsa, OK 74146
RM, I have seen these signs used for perfectly legal purposes all over the place. When a tree service, roofing, or siding company does work they often place one of these in your yard. Campaign signs are often placed by citizens in their yards. In front of businesses they place such signs out to advertise sales.
It should also be noted that he does other work too - magnetic signs for cars for instance.
Your angst against this man is as misplaced as the hatred the record companies have for CD-Burners. Just because people MIGHT use them for illegal purposes puts no angst on the manufacturer.
Think of all the illegal uses for spray paint: graffiti, vandalizing cars, huffing, covering up security cameras... look at all the illegal uses for signs - placing them on rights-of way. Frankly, the spray paint causes more damage, but I'm still OK with Lowes selling it.
and no, no stake in the sign company or any similar ventures. Just sayin' the guys just making signs.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Name one time you have seen one of these signs that was not in the public right-of-way. No one puts these in their backyard.
All of his customers break the law, intentionally or not. We should get some signs together and go picket KOTV.
Union School District - "Redskin Football Player Lives Here" or something like that - all over south Tulsa and BA. But in homeowners'yards. Probably same with the Trojans in Jenks, Tigers in BA, etc.
What the customer orders to print on the sign should let the signmaker know whether or not the signs will possibly be placed illegally.
Wonder if he has them sign a release or agreement to not place the signs illegally?
This thread is registering a 4 out of 5 on my tayometer...
(http://www.scottmgrizzle.com/images/tayfull.gif)(http://www.scottmgrizzle.com/images/tayfull.gif)(http://www.scottmgrizzle.com/images/tayfull.gif)(http://www.scottmgrizzle.com/images/tayfull.gif)(http://www.scottmgrizzle.com/images/taynone.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
and no, no stake in the sign company or any similar ventures. Just sayin' the guys just making signs.
You are right too. Perhaps Mr. Laake should do his part to advise his customers of the LAW? Naaaaaaah.
Of course, he would probably be doing that with a wink. EVERYBODY knows why someone would order up 500 coroplast signs for stumps3dust.com.
There's only one reason. Mr. Laake's customers want the public to see them. The only places where the GENERAL public can see them is if they are on the PUBLIC right-of-way.
quote:
The only places where the GENERAL public can see them is if they are on the PUBLIC right-of-way.
The public drives by my front lawn all the time. Why would they not see them at that location?
Come on, I signed your petition to run for city council, at
least give me the fact that this man is doing anything you can prevent. What, do we want to require a license to have a damn sign printed now? What are we going to do about pop cans on the side of the road - someone do a fluff piece on Reasor's for selling those cans to punk kids.
Hmmm. Let me continue this logic. Since he just makes the signs and doesn't distribute them, he is honorable and legal. Just like Lowes carrying spray paint.
Seems logical then that Colombia growing coca has no responsibility for street users in Tulsa. For that matter the distributors, mules, middle men have no resposibility as well.
That doesn't work because the end product has simply been classified as illegal to produce, possess or distribute in this country. So if you want to go after this guy or the guys buying from him, the only way would be to make the product illegal to produce, possess or distribute. Or we could saddle him with the same responsibility a bartender has to not put an obviously drunk patron with car keys on the street. Is it that important to keep our easements clear?
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
The only places where the GENERAL public can see them is if they are on the PUBLIC right-of-way.
The public drives by my front lawn all the time. Why would they not see them at that location?
Come on, I signed your petition to run for city council, at least give me the fact that this man is doing anything you can prevent. What, do we want to require a license to have a damn sign printed now? What are we going to do about pop cans on the side of the road - someone do a fluff piece on Reasor's for selling those cans to punk kids.
Funny that you mention that, Aldi stores in large metropolitan areas used to supply free large plastic Aldi grocery bags to homeless people and would leave stacks of the things in shelters, and charities for the Urban Outdoorspeople to stuff their belongings in.
(http://www.aldifoods.com/us/html/layout_img/aldiUSA_logo.gif)
Giant Aldi logos are all over St. Louis, and Chicago. Free advertising on every corner and in every alley. The bags blow freely through the streets.
quote:
Originally posted by spoonbill
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
The only places where the GENERAL public can see them is if they are on the PUBLIC right-of-way.
The public drives by my front lawn all the time. Why would they not see them at that location?
Come on, I signed your petition to run for city council, at least give me the fact that this man is doing anything you can prevent. What, do we want to require a license to have a damn sign printed now? What are we going to do about pop cans on the side of the road - someone do a fluff piece on Reasor's for selling those cans to punk kids.
Funny that you mention that, Aldi stores in large metropolitan areas used to supply free large plastic Aldi grocery bags to homeless people and would leave stacks of the things in shelters, and charities for the Urban Outdoorspeople to stuff their belongings in.
(http://www.aldifoods.com/us/html/layout_img/aldiUSA_logo.gif)
Giant Aldi logos are all over St. Louis, and Chicago. Free advertising on every corner and in every alley. The bags blow freely through the streets.
So they're free to the homeless but they charge the customers?
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
RM, I have seen these signs used for perfectly legal purposes all over the place. When a tree service, roofing, or siding company does work they often place one of these in your yard. Campaign signs are often placed by citizens in their yards. In front of businesses they place such signs out to advertise sales.
It should also be noted that he does other work too - magnetic signs for cars for instance.
Your angst against this man is as misplaced as the hatred the record companies have for CD-Burners. Just because people MIGHT use them for illegal purposes puts no angst on the manufacturer.
Think of all the illegal uses for spray paint: graffiti, vandalizing cars, huffing, covering up security cameras... look at all the illegal uses for signs - placing them on rights-of way. Frankly, the spray paint causes more damage, but I'm still OK with Lowes selling it.
and no, no stake in the sign company or any similar ventures. Just sayin' the guys just making signs.
Yes, the signs are perfectly legal when placed on private property behind the right of way. I don't begrudge him making a living. People who want to advertise on the street corner have any number of sign makers from which to choose.
Unfortunately, 99.9 percent of the signs he sells are placed illegally and of course, he knows it.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Hmmm. Let me continue this logic. Since he just makes the signs and doesn't distribute them, he is honorable and legal. Just like Lowes carrying spray paint.
Seems logical then that Colombia growing coca has no responsibility for street users in Tulsa. For that matter the distributors, mules, middle men have no resposibility as well.
That doesn't work because the end product has simply been classified as illegal to produce, possess or distribute in this country. So if you want to go after this guy or the guys buying from him, the only way would be to make the product illegal to produce, possess or distribute. Or we could saddle him with the same responsibility a bartender has to not put an obviously drunk patron with car keys on the street. Is it that important to keep our easements clear?
I'm a bit confused, but OK.
Columbian drug lords grow illegal supplies of coca, illegally process it, illegally transport it, illegal import it into the market, and then illegal distribute it to solely illegal users. It is illegal in Columbia, the US, and all points in between.
This man uses legal materials to legally produce signs and then legally sells them to people - some of whom use them illegally.
Do you see the difference?
If you like cocaine I can use that. There are legal coca plantations in Columbia that grow for the pharmaceutical industry. They then legally process it and legally sell it to pharmacies. Then an MD legally prescribes cocaine as a nasal pain reliever - if the end purchaser then decides to use it recreationaly instead, I do not hold anyone in the supply chain liable.
- -
I'm not daft. I understand what is going on. My point is - you can not realistically do anything about it nor can you prove that this man has any inclination that he is doing anything wrong. Of course Phillips knows it's DVD burners copy DVDs (the vast majority of burns are illegal), is that their fault?
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
This man uses legal materials to legally produce signs and then legally sells them to people - some of whom use them illegally.
I'm not daft. I understand what is going on. My point is - you can not realistically do anything about it nor can you prove that this man has any inclination that he is doing anything wrong. Of course Phillips knows it's DVD burners copy DVDs (the vast majority of burns are illegal), is that their fault?
Mr. Laake also advertises his services using his own products. His signs for tulsayardsigns.com can be found placed ILLEGALLY, in violation of City ordinance, on PUBLIC right-of-ways.
That's how KOTV found the man.
KOTV is also doing a bang up job of AIDING and ABETTING. Even though they might claim IGNORANCE, violations of sign ordinance is considered strict liability. Mens rea NOT required to prove guilt.
To the person who asked if this is really an important issue, the law is on the books. Election season is just around the corner. And, the signs WILL go up illegally. Bet on it.
The City Council can repeal the ordinance ANYTIME they like.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Bah, I don't blame Steve. He prints signs. Some other idiot places them all over the place.
I also don't blame Wal-Mart for selling spray paint that ends up under over passes. Ford for hit and runs. Polaroid for child pornography. Or Colt for homicides.
Of course, it would be a good business model for him to print and sell them to such idiots, and then go and pick up the illegal ones. With any luck, the dolt will buy more from him. [:)]
But there are hundreds if not thousands of legitimate uses for spray paint. There are very few legal uses of these signs.
This guy is making the equivalent of a bong and saying it could be used for a flowervase.
Ahem, tobacco waterpipe...
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Hmmm. Let me continue this logic. Since he just makes the signs and doesn't distribute them, he is honorable and legal. Just like Lowes carrying spray paint.
Seems logical then that Colombia growing coca has no responsibility for street users in Tulsa. For that matter the distributors, mules, middle men have no resposibility as well.
That doesn't work because the end product has simply been classified as illegal to produce, possess or distribute in this country. So if you want to go after this guy or the guys buying from him, the only way would be to make the product illegal to produce, possess or distribute. Or we could saddle him with the same responsibility a bartender has to not put an obviously drunk patron with car keys on the street. Is it that important to keep our easements clear?
I'm a bit confused, but OK.
Columbian drug lords grow illegal supplies of coca, illegally process it, illegally transport it, illegal import it into the market, and then illegal distribute it to solely illegal users. It is illegal in Columbia, the US, and all points in between.
This man uses legal materials to legally produce signs and then legally sells them to people - some of whom use them illegally.
Do you see the difference?
If you like cocaine I can use that. There are legal coca plantations in Columbia that grow for the pharmaceutical industry. They then legally process it and legally sell it to pharmacies. Then an MD legally prescribes cocaine as a nasal pain reliever - if the end purchaser then decides to use it recreationaly instead, I do not hold anyone in the supply chain liable.
- -
I'm not daft. I understand what is going on. My point is - you can not realistically do anything about it nor can you prove that this man has any inclination that he is doing anything wrong. Of course Phillips knows it's DVD burners copy DVDs (the vast majority of burns are illegal), is that their fault?
Well, CF, I was agreeing with you. I went a roundabout way to do so hoping it would make someone think. Coca is not illegal to grow in South America or possess or distribute. At least not in practice. If so it would decimate the worker population as they all use it while harvesting the crops. It is illegal in the states unless for medical use. My point is that in order to stop a very effective, cheap manner of advertising thats available to the masses (elements similar to illegal drugs) one would have to treat it as an illegal drug. It doesn't seem worth the effort.
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
Saw the promo and switched the channel.
Is local news so pathetic they have to resort to this type journalism? Too bad there wasn't a storm over NW Arkansas.....
Time for KOTV to really shake it up and crash a helicopter on a low pass at Pogue Airport or something like that. (non-injury, of course) [;)]
quote:
Originally posted by tulsasignnazi
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
This man uses legal materials to legally produce signs and then legally sells them to people - some of whom use them illegally.
I'm not daft. I understand what is going on. My point is - you can not realistically do anything about it nor can you prove that this man has any inclination that he is doing anything wrong. Of course Phillips knows it's DVD burners copy DVDs (the vast majority of burns are illegal), is that their fault?
Mr. Laake also advertises his services using his own products. His signs for tulsayardsigns.com can be found placed ILLEGALLY, in violation of City ordinance, on PUBLIC right-of-ways.
That's how KOTV found the man.
KOTV is also doing a bang up job of AIDING and ABETTING. Even though they might claim IGNORANCE, violations of sign ordinance is considered strict liability. Mens rea NOT required to prove guilt.
To the person who asked if this is really an important issue, the law is on the books. Election season is just around the corner. And, the signs WILL go up illegally. Bet on it.
The City Council can repeal the ordinance ANYTIME they like.
So, all the signs that popped up on easements after the ice storm were illegal. That is true. There are lots of laws that go unenforced because the reality is that the formality of laws does not always mesh well with the informality of life. In other words, THOSE SIGNS WERE A BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY! People did not rely only on the yellow pages, the radio ads, the TV ads or the billboards to find needed tree services. These signs were good exceptions to enforcement.
This whole argument about signs is one of economics and class. Walgreens and Creek Nation Casino can offend my senses with obnoxious LED signs flashing their inane messages whether I want to see them or not because they are entrenched businesses able to influence or flaunt the ordinances controlling them. "Worthy" causes like fund raisers for religious organizations, book fairs, bazaars etc. are tolerated when they put banners and signs in easements because of their gentry standing and alleged non-profit status. But tell someone how to get their trees cleaned up or lose 20lbs and you all are lighting the torches!
These signs for political races, garage sales, lose weight, and fundraisers are a fact of life. The abuse of them can be managed but common use cannot be stopped. Other media are too damn expensive for them and they will proliferate unless you make them akin to an illegal drug. When you get people to do 65mph on the BA expwy, then start on the signs.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
This whole argument about signs is one of economics and class.
That is not true. There are many illegal signs advertising companies who buy houses. These people are not poor, just use poor techniques to get attention. The K-Mart on 21st street constantly puts out illegal signs promoting clearance items. They are not some poor retailer.
These signs are litter on a stick, visual pollution meant only to make a sale for a company purposely violating the law.
Why is this not is the same as a company cheating on their taxes or using employing illegal workers?
quote:
So, all the signs that popped up on easements after the ice storm were illegal. That is true. There are lots of laws that go unenforced because the reality is that the formality of laws does not always mesh well with the informality of life. In other words, THOSE SIGNS WERE A BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY! People did not rely only on the yellow pages, the radio ads, the TV ads or the billboards to find needed tree services. These signs were good exceptions to enforcement.
You are right too, WB. So, let's call on City Council to REPEAL the law, instead of SELECTIVE enforcement. There are a LOT of City Ordinances that are pretty STUPID.
But, the PAINFUL truth is the City Council is NOT doing THEIR job to review them on a scheduled basis to get rid of them. Shouldn't there be a City Ordinance requiring City Council to do just THAT? Naaaaaaaaaah. They only get paid for part-time work.
And, DEFINITELY wouldn't want to make ANY waves while you got yer sights set on STATE SENATE, wouldya?
Until City Council finally gets around to doing THEIR job, do you really want one set of enforcement for one set of folks and then another standard of enforcement for another set of folks? Is that fair? Do we not have a legal system based on rule of LAW, not of men?
I call on the City's Chief Prosecutor, Bob Garner, to vigorously prosecute Mr. Laake. If John Trebelicock, the State Senator, recently busted for DUI in Municipal Court didn't get the skate, why should Mr. Laake?
If Mr. Garner REFUSES to bring charges on Mr. Laake, I am sure somewhere in the Oklahoma State Statutes there are provisions for citizens to press charges in court. Wouldn't want to be caught NOT doing YOUR job, wouldya, Mr. Garner?
The FORMALITY of the situation is the LAW is PUBLIC. Everybody KNOWS the rules. Mr. Laake had a priori knowledge AND has committed a CRIME. His CONFESSION is even caught on tape.
Mens rea and actus rea are both present for prima facie case to prove guilt BEYOND reasonable doubt.
In the near past, nobody knew who was behind these illegal signs. These illegal signs used to just sprout up like mushrooms. NO one witnessed the crime. NO one confessed. NOW, we know. Mr. Laake has confessed to the CRIME. Thank you, KOTV!
But, a man's innocent unless proven guilty by trial. Even if Mr. Laake is proven innocent, he should at least be PUNISHED by the PROCESS.
Who decides which signs are beneficial for society? If you are allowed to decide that tulsayardsigns.com is doing a public service, then, shouldn't a FAT person decide that the TOTAL weight loss sign is also beneficial too? Naaaaaaaaaaah. Forget it.
In the meantime, ALL Tulsa Sign Nazis, FRONT and CENTER!!!![:P][:)][^]
You both make my point rather well.
Sign Nazi...choose your battles well. Using the words "selective enforcement" is a red herring. Law enforcement simply cannot effectively enforce 100% compliance of all the laws that are written. Choosing to eliminate all push in signs, even the ones for the Brushy Creek fund raiser or whatever, is attainable though. All it takes is more funding, more battles in court, more administration to handle garage sale and political sign registrations, and the tolerance for paying less attention to more important matters. And for what? So visitors can nod in approval..."Gee, that Tulsa sure has pretty easements and fat happy media moguls." How much of this is sour grapes by media owners who know they are not as price effective as a simple little sign? It might be chheaper and more effective to continue as we are now with some more pr effort of our own. Call these operators, encourage responsible behavior, have the mayor use her pulpit or the councillors. Walk softly but carry the big stick.
Meanwhile, like Mike says, the retailers and the more prosperous, influential types will still use every trick to make sure they get your attention. You guys know there are discussions right now about sign ordinance changes. Changes that could allow obnoxious LED and LCD type moving picture signage that is distracting, ugly and energy wasteful. Now there's a battle for you. But who do you go after? LOSE 20LBS! CALL 000-0000 or PIANO LESSONS CALL 000-0000. Low hanging fruit. Yeah, that's not economics or class warfare. Send city workers in to ticket the K-Mart and Office Depot managers? Doubt that will happen. More likely book fairs and non-profits will get some sort of exception or registration clause. Politicians won't be touched. Bet on that.
It is class and economics. Price a yellow pages ad. Try to run an ad in the newspaper and reach your target market for $300. Check in to production cost and time on all the electronic media in order to reach people needing their trees trimmed. The result is that only those with great PR skills or good advertising budgets can do those media. Yeah, a local K-Mart manager will slip one in as well as greedy real estate foreclosure cons, but a call to the main office will end that. What you get by forcing high % compliance is eliminating the little guys. You want to only have Nosak as your official Tulsa tree trimmer?
GET REAL! Fact of the matter: the coroplast signs are placed illegally. Their are ordinances on the books in regard to placement. It is about pride in our city. If we dont get our city code enforcment officers on the stick our city will begin to look like Joplin.
THE SIGNS SUCK.
PULL 'EM UP! THESE OUT OF TOWM COMPANIES ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT ANYTHING BUT A QUICK BUCK.
quote:
Using the words "selective enforcement" is a red herring.
WB, selective enforcement has ALWAYS been the rule of the land. In past elections, City code enforcement pulls up only the signs of those political candidates they DON'T like and leave the others.
If law enforcement has a problem with enforcement of the LAW, shouldn't the law be REPEALED? Naaaaaaaaah. Definitely wouldn't want Rev. Fred Phelps to start putting up signs all over town, right?
Or worse, a bunch of Cherokee windtalkers who insist on putting up SWASTIKAS on the public right-o'ways to celebrate their role in the Battle of the Bulge. NOBODY's gonna tell you about THAT part of American history.
Instead of regular City employees, the City now uses inmates to pull signs. Look for the white van marked "Security" towing a flatbed trailer. There will be a bunch of skid-row types in the van, supervised by Wackenhut. They apparently don't like their pictures taken. So, easy with the cameras. The Wackenhut guy
WILL beat you into pulp.
quote:
Originally posted by tulsasignnazi
In past elections, City code enforcement pulls up only the signs of those political candidates they DON'T like and leave the others.
That is simply not true. The work crews pick up all signs.
I have been to the fenced area where all signs rest in purgatory and it is filled with every candidates signs. Certain candidates or their supporters might complain with that, but is not true. I look every election year.
Opposing campaigns do take signs however. I know that our election season starts next week with council filings Monday through Wednesday. I urge all candidates to follow the sign rules and ask their strident volunteers to follow the rules as well.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
That is simply not true. The work crews pick up all signs.
Thank you, RM, for the clarification. However, it was a City code enforcement official who made that claim of selective enforcement. Of course, she said it in a half-joking way. So, that was the impression I got.
As for the campaign season starting next Monday, ya think KOTV might do us all a favor by doing a story on the sign ordinance? Naaaaaaaah. We already saw you talking to Rick Wells for the gas leak story.
I have been on television a lot lately. I make the reporters and anchors look thin.
Paul, why don't you post the specific ordinances that campaigns must follow so all TulsaNow posters can be informed of the rules?
3102.16 Excluded from Right-of-Way; Removal Authorized. No sign shall be permitted in the right-of-way of a street under any circumstances, except as provided in Section 3102.12.4. Any sign situated in the right-of-way of a public street is hereby declared a public nuisance endangering public safety, and may be removed by the code official or any police officer of the City of Tulsa.
In plain ENGLISH, no signs allowed where the GENERAL public can see them.
Also, City will mail a letter and a pamphlet to all political candidates, by next Friday. But, I doubt any of them will actually obey the LAW.
The illegal campaign signs are already up. Political candidates are SPECIAAAAAAAAL. They ARE above the LAW. [:(!][:(!][:(!][xx(]
I pull them and trash them all the time....
quote:
Originally posted by tulsasignnazi
3102.16 Excluded from Right-of-Way; Removal Authorized. No sign shall be permitted in the right-of-way of a street under any circumstances, except as provided in Section 3102.12.4. Any sign situated in the right-of-way of a public street is hereby declared a public nuisance endangering public safety, and may be removed by the code official or any police officer of the City of Tulsa.
In plain ENGLISH, no signs allowed where the GENERAL public can see them.
Also, City will mail a letter and a pamphlet to all political candidates, by next Friday. But, I doubt any of them will actually obey the LAW.
The illegal campaign signs are already up. Political candidates are SPECIAAAAAAAAL. They ARE above the LAW. [:(!][:(!][:(!][xx(]
So what about all the bright *** LED signs at the casinos and Sonic? Those signs are much more distracting then any "tree trimming" or "work from home" sign on the side of the road. Most people have gotten accustomed to them and ignore them. The Casino and Sonic signs are blinding at times especially in areas where there arent street lights. I would much rather put up with a few street signs or "20% off going out of business" sign from COMPUSA vs those stupid LED signs. Speaking of COMPUSA, does it make it legal if its a person standing on the side of the road holding up the sign for the public? like for instance, quiznos and the COMPUSA signs mentioned above??
quote:
In plain ENGLISH, no signs allowed where the GENERAL public can see them.
Worst interpretation of the law I have ever seen. In plain English, it means people can not place sign on the public right of way. The public right of way is the land set aside for general transportation use by the city. It includes medians, sidewalks, and transportation easements (generally 5-10 feet off the curb. Personally, leave the signs placed by people anywhere in THEIR OWN YARDS the hell alone).
It has nothing to do with WHO CAN SEE IT. Public Right of Way
DOES NOT refer to public line of sight. You have some valid points, but then press the issue too far and it is clear you really do not understand the law.
People of Tulsa, feel free to place signs where the General public will see them, so long as it is not on a public right of way (basically medians, sidewalks, roads and at least 5 feet on either side). Since the entire point of a sign is for it to be seen, it would be RETARDED to ban them from sight. Among the least thought out legal interpretation ever.
- - -
I was going to post about how annoying the Tulsa Tree Trimmers signs are all around midtown in the medians... but when you blatantly misstate the law it's hard to agree with you on anything.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
The public right of way is the land set aside for general transportation use by the city. It includes medians, sidewalks, and transportation easements (generally 5-10 feet off the curb. Personally, leave the signs placed by people anywhere in THEIR OWN YARDS the hell alone).
Actually, the City generally bans signs in the space that is within 12 feet of the curb. By Friday, all the candidates will get a letter and a pamphlet from the City administratively interpreting the law, and where the signs can be placed.
The way the City interprets the law, effectively it means no signs where the GENERAL public can see them.
TUAlum, if you don't like the law, start a movement to pressure City Council to REPEAL it. You might have a legal cause of action based on the First Amendment.
quote:
Originally posted by tulsasignnazi
Quote
Actually, the City generally bans signs in the space that is within 12 feet of the curb. By Friday, all the candidates will get a letter and a pamphlet from the City administratively interpreting the law, and where the signs can be placed.
The way the City interprets the law, effectively it means no signs where the GENERAL public can see them.
TUAlum, if you don't like the law, start a movement to pressure City Council to REPEAL it. You might have a legal cause of action based on the First Amendment.
Wow! You're really missing it dude!
quote:
Originally posted by tulsasignnazi
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
The public right of way is the land set aside for general transportation use by the city. It includes medians, sidewalks, and transportation easements (generally 5-10 feet off the curb. Personally, leave the signs placed by people anywhere in THEIR OWN YARDS the hell alone).
Actually, the City generally bans signs in the space that is within 12 feet of the curb. By Friday, all the candidates will get a letter and a pamphlet from the City administratively interpreting the law, and where the signs can be placed.
The way the City interprets the law, effectively it means no signs where the GENERAL public can see them.
TUAlum, if you don't like the law, start a movement to pressure City Council to REPEAL it. You might have a legal cause of action based on the First Amendment.
"..might have a first amendment case.."??!! Don't come onto someone's front yard and remove their sign. Even if you're with the sign nazi crew. Trespass, Make My Day, Buckshot are all words that come to mind.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
"..might have a first amendment case.."??!! Don't come onto someone's front yard and remove their sign. Even if you're with the sign nazi crew. Trespass, Make My Day, Buckshot are all words that come to mind.
Generally, no one will pull up signs in someone's yard, especially if they are on some out of the way street. The ones on the major arterials are TOAST![:P]
quote:
Originally posted by tulsasignnazi
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
The public right of way is the land set aside for general transportation use by the city. It includes medians, sidewalks, and transportation easements (generally 5-10 feet off the curb. Personally, leave the signs placed by people anywhere in THEIR OWN YARDS the hell alone).
Actually, the City generally bans signs in the space that is within 12 feet of the curb. By Friday, all the candidates will get a letter and a pamphlet from the City administratively interpreting the law, and where the signs can be placed.
The way the City interprets the law, effectively it means no signs where the GENERAL public can see them.
TUAlum, if you don't like the law, start a movement to pressure City Council to REPEAL it. You might have a legal cause of action based on the First Amendment.
the signs that you are referring to don't bother me that much. I personally think you would be better off volunteering your time at a homeless shelter or delivering meals on wheels. It's a damn sign for God's sake. It's not a stash of dirty drug needles, rotting feces, or human corpes' everywhere.
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
the signs that you are referring to don't bother me that much. I personally think you would be better off volunteering your time at a homeless shelter or delivering meals on wheels. It's a damn sign for God's sake. It's not a stash of dirty drug needles, rotting feces, or human corpes' everywhere.
My point, EXACTLY. Now, go tell it to City Council. They need to get with it to review the ordinances to get rid of STUPID rules, UPDATE the Comprehensive Plan, and amend the ZONING code appropriately.
DEMAND City Council do their JOB, and NOT just blow through the $60,000 campaign slush fund and then sit around TWO years for the NEXT big elective office to come along. [:(!][:(!][:(!]
I must be the last one on here to realize you are trying to spur Tulsans into action against stupid, unfocussed, confusing and unjust sign ordinances. While I applaud that, I don't give you much chance of success. Nothing excites Tulsans to action except golf, beer, football and the fair.[;)] Meanwhile...back to the sofa.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I must be the last one on here to realize you are trying to spur Tulsans into action against stupid, unfocussed, confusing and unjust sign ordinances. While I applaud that, I don't give you much chance of success. Nothing excites Tulsans to action except golf, beer, football and the fair.[;)] Meanwhile...back to the sofa.
Actually, the City is ALREADY on top of it. 3 new sign inspectors hired. Security van, towing a flat-bed trailer, carrying skid-row types, rolling near Promenade Mall in the a.m.
Inspection group at 111 N. Hartford is also taking and checking complaints on the bench ads too. It turns out the ads on the benches are UNPERMITED and ILLEGAL. Some of the bus benches might also be UNPERMITTED too.
Kick 'em while they are DOWN, Sign Nazis! Post pix of ILLEGAL signs here. Be sure to include the location. North Hartford Inspection Group will be checking this post regularly.
they've already been on top of it for several years now. What you describe is nothing new. Three new inspectors? You think that will cover the upcoming election cycle? Bench signs? Why stop there? The damn bus wraps are obnoxious and park on city property. Go after them too. Tempest in a teapot.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
they've already been on top of it for several years now. What you describe is nothing new. Three new inspectors? You think that will cover the upcoming election cycle? Bench signs? Why stop there? The damn bus wraps are obnoxious and park on city property. Go after them too. Tempest in a teapot.
Bus wraps are TRAFFIC. But, the bus bench ads may be fair game, if they are UNPERMITTED.
quote:
Originally posted by tulsasignnazi
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
they've already been on top of it for several years now. What you describe is nothing new. Three new inspectors? You think that will cover the upcoming election cycle? Bench signs? Why stop there? The damn bus wraps are obnoxious and park on city property. Go after them too. Tempest in a teapot.
Bus wraps are TRAFFIC. But, the bus bench ads may be fair game, if they are UNPERMITTED.
Have to disagree, WB. The city has not been on this for the last several years. They have neglected enforcement of their own laws regarding signs for years and years. Ask anyone in the sign business. There has been no oversight for a long time. No inspections, no permitting.
If you think they enhance Tulsa, fine, then ignore them. You stated the signs were a benefit to the community following the storm? Smoke signals would have been more beneficial. The companies who place the signs are taking advantage of the chaos. And really, these are here today gone tomorrow companies with no work history or insurance most likely. I wouldn't hire anyone who puts a sign on a pole.
Need and electrician or a tree trimmer? Get out a phone book or ask a friend for a recommendation. Hire someone off a pole and you are probably going to get ripped off. Lose weight with a staple in your ear. Yeah right.
quote:
Originally posted by NellieBly
I wouldn't hire anyone who puts a sign on a pole.
Need and electrician or a tree trimmer? Get out a phone book or ask a friend for a recommendation. Hire someone off a pole and you are probably going to get ripped off. Lose weight with a staple in your ear. Yeah right.
If you won't hire someone off a pole, would you VOTE for someone from an illegally placed sign? Forget it. Never mind.
If that were the case, I could never vote. I appreciate the candidates who try to place them correctly. And I appreciate those that remove them quickly as soon as the election is over. I have called campaigns to complain about signs.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
Saw the promo and switched the channel.
Is local news so pathetic they have to resort to this type journalism? Too bad there wasn't a storm over NW Arkansas.....
Time for KOTV to really shake it up and crash a helicopter on a low pass at Pogue Airport or something like that. (non-injury, of course) [;)]
do you really have to go there?
quote:
Originally posted by NellieBly
quote:
Originally posted by tulsasignnazi
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
they've already been on top of it for several years now. What you describe is nothing new. Three new inspectors? You think that will cover the upcoming election cycle? Bench signs? Why stop there? The damn bus wraps are obnoxious and park on city property. Go after them too. Tempest in a teapot.
Bus wraps are TRAFFIC. But, the bus bench ads may be fair game, if they are UNPERMITTED.
Have to disagree, WB. The city has not been on this for the last several years. They have neglected enforcement of their own laws regarding signs for years and years. Ask anyone in the sign business. There has been no oversight for a long time. No inspections, no permitting.
If you think they enhance Tulsa, fine, then ignore them. You stated the signs were a benefit to the community following the storm? Smoke signals would have been more beneficial. The companies who place the signs are taking advantage of the chaos. And really, these are here today gone tomorrow companies with no work history or insurance most likely. I wouldn't hire anyone who puts a sign on a pole.
Need and electrician or a tree trimmer? Get out a phone book or ask a friend for a recommendation. Hire someone off a pole and you are probably going to get ripped off. Lose weight with a staple in your ear. Yeah right.
I do ignore them but make no judgement as to their enhancement value. We'll just have to disagree. The sign crews are not new. I saw the van with workers picking up signs at least two years ago and even read about them on this forum. As far as hiring crews for tree work, surely you don't think the integrity of yellow pages advertisers is exemplary. Many of them are also uninsured and only paid enough down to have their ads printed. Even responsible businesses use push in signs from my experience and lose weight scams are everywhere including tv, radio and print.
I just can't get too excited about push in sign abuse when corporates are abusing the hell out of the ordinances with LED's and flashing lights. Go after them first, then harrass the bus signs.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I just can't get too excited about push in sign abuse when corporates are abusing the hell out of the ordinances with LED's and flashing lights. Go after them first, then harrass the bus signs.
EVERYBODY abuses the sign ordinance. Ya think some of those Tulsa Transit bench ads might be UN-permitted? Naaaaaaaaaaaaah.
Wouldn't you abuse the law too, if all the punishment you gonna get is just a chance to pick up your sign at City sign storage?
quote:
Originally posted by tulsasignnazi
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I just can't get too excited about push in sign abuse when corporates are abusing the hell out of the ordinances with LED's and flashing lights. Go after them first, then harrass the bus signs.
EVERYBODY abuses the sign ordinance. Ya think some of those Tulsa Transit bench ads might be UN-permitted? Naaaaaaaaaaaaah.
Wouldn't you abuse the law too, if all the punishment you gonna get is just a chance to pick up your sign at City sign storage?
Then go after some of the big abusers instead of tree trimmers and garage sale signs. Go get WalGreens and Creek Nation Casino.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Then go after some of the big abusers instead of tree trimmers and garage sale signs. Go get WalGreens and Creek Nation Casino.
Where have ya been, boy? It's a whole lot easier to step on the little guy first. Going after the big guys blows through more BILLABLE hours. Have you EVER been on the business end of the LEGAL department of a Walgreens?
Never mind the casino. I can't imagine the situation would be a whole lotta fun for a punk gub'mint legal chiwi, like Deidre, going up against a private PIT bull. But, then again, it would probably get outsource. GIT A GRIP, child.
No wonder you lost it with the air boat rides. It was a great idea. But, you KNEW you were eventually gonna get step on like a cochroach crossing the BORDER.[:P]
quote:
Originally posted by tulsasignnazi
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Then go after some of the big abusers instead of tree trimmers and garage sale signs. Go get WalGreens and Creek Nation Casino.
Where have ya been, boy? It's a whole lot easier to step on the little guy first. Going after the big guys blows through more BILLABLE hours. Have you EVER been on the business end of the LEGAL department of a Walgreens?
Never mind the casino. I can't imagine the situation would be a whole lotta fun for a punk gub'mint legal chiwi, like Deidre, going up against a private PIT bull. But, then again, it would probably get outsource. GIT A GRIP, child.
No wonder you lost it with the air boat rides. It was a great idea. But, you KNEW you were eventually gonna get step on like a cochroach crossing the BORDER.[:P]
That's depressing logic. Sort of like a fisherman going after bait fish for dinner with a seine net because its easier than catching the largemouth bass. You should note that a local coffee house, DoubleShot, did quite well in a legal tussle against the giant Starbucks within the last year.
Apparently you're someone who knows me. That was a cheap shot you took. No, I didn't think I would get stepped on like a cockroach. That naivete cost me plenty. How it relates here sort of eludes me.
But then you must know I'm only half assed interested in this whole topic. I know the signs are tacky and bothersome. I just get tired of seeing the least able to defend themselves get attacked by people further up the ladder, because its easier than doing the right thing.
I don't know what a chiwi lawyer is, but I met Deidre when our kids played ball together. She was smart, attractive, personable and pragmatic. Hard to find those characteristics in a lawyer.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
That's depressing logic. Sort of like a fisherman going after bait fish for dinner with a seine net because its easier than catching the largemouth bass. You should note that a local coffee house, DoubleShot, did quite well in a legal tussle against the giant Starbucks within the last year.
Apparently you're someone who knows me. That was a cheap shot you took. No, I didn't think I would get stepped on like a cockroach. That naivete cost me plenty. How it relates here sort of eludes me.
But then you must know I'm only half assed interested in this whole topic. I know the signs are tacky and bothersome. I just get tired of seeing the least able to defend themselves get attacked by people further up the ladder, because its easier than doing the right thing.
I don't know what a chiwi lawyer is, but I met Deidre when our kids played ball together. She was smart, attractive, personable and pragmatic. Hard to find those characteristics in a lawyer.
Well, boy, try taking a few deep breaths, and letting loose your inner black guy busted-for-walking-on-the WRONG-side-of-the-road. You'll get the picture.
I know your story well enough to understand you got the shaft where the sun DON'T shine. The big boyz in this crapola town have a well-honed habit of squelching ANYTHING that don't quite fit THEIR program.
Oh, no doubt Deidre is a VERY able attorney. But, she bills 300 per, at least. There's NOT enough paralegals in her office to take on the likes of Creek Nation. They'll bring out the BIG guns, like Doerner Saunders and FLATTEN her like jew on Kristalnicht. Chiwi lawyer v. PIT bull.
If you are so tired of the little guy getting stepped on all the time, you would do well in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory. Benvenidos a America, amigo!
Every now and then, some wise guy like D-Shot might see the daylight of the GREAT American IN-justice system. Charred-bucks threw Brian a BONE. Some genius paralegal did a cost/benefit analysis. But, you KNOW the drill. Sorry to pop your nice little BUBBLE.
Kick 'em while they down, Sign NAZIs!!![:P]
quote:
Originally posted by tulsasignnazi
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
That's depressing logic. Sort of like a fisherman going after bait fish for dinner with a seine net because its easier than catching the largemouth bass. You should note that a local coffee house, DoubleShot, did quite well in a legal tussle against the giant Starbucks within the last year.
Apparently you're someone who knows me. That was a cheap shot you took. No, I didn't think I would get stepped on like a cockroach. That naivete cost me plenty. How it relates here sort of eludes me.
But then you must know I'm only half assed interested in this whole topic. I know the signs are tacky and bothersome. I just get tired of seeing the least able to defend themselves get attacked by people further up the ladder, because its easier than doing the right thing.
I don't know what a chiwi lawyer is, but I met Deidre when our kids played ball together. She was smart, attractive, personable and pragmatic. Hard to find those characteristics in a lawyer.
Well, boy, try taking a few deep breaths, and letting loose your inner black guy busted-for-walking-on-the WRONG-side-of-the-road. You'll get the picture.
I know your story well enough to understand you got the shaft where the sun DON'T shine. The big boyz in this crapola town have a well-honed habit of squelching ANYTHING that don't quite fit THEIR program.
Oh, no doubt Deidre is a VERY able attorney. But, she bills 300 per, at least. There's NOT enough paralegals in her office to take on the likes of Creek Nation. They'll bring out the BIG guns, like Doerner Saunders and FLATTEN her like jew on Kristalnicht. Chiwi lawyer v. PIT bull.
If you are so tired of the little guy getting stepped on all the time, you would do well in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory. Benvenidos a America, amigo!
Every now and then, some wise guy like D-Shot might see the daylight of the GREAT American IN-justice system. Charred-bucks threw Brian a BONE. Some genius paralegal did a cost/benefit analysis. But, you KNOW the drill. Sorry to pop your nice little BUBBLE.
Kick 'em while they down, Sign NAZIs!!![:P]
Hmmm. Very enigmatic. My deep breaths are about to force a loss of consciousness. Before I pass out from reality exposure, I should say I have no bubbles left to pop. Lets just say, I could have done better with my idea but just being me, got in the way. Did you ever ride upstream with me?
Meanwhile I made a conscious effort to see how many probable illegal signs I could see today on my morning route which takes me from midtown via expressways to 101st & Yale. Major streets from 81st to 117th from Yale to 169. Pretty nice neighborhoods with not much easement but lots of traffic exposure. No more than a dozen in the 40 or so miles ending up at 169 & 81st. They included realtor signs, apartment complex signs, garage sale.com (new one), open house signs, a church banner, for lease signs, baseball sign ups and an evangelical end times seminar sign. All push ins and all most likely illegal. But they didn't seem too abusive in number or style and in fact it was hard to pick most of them out.
Perhaps some hoods closer to town have it worse?
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Did you ever ride upstream with me?
I never go downstream. Hate to get sold down the river and all that. Upstream is where the action's at.
quote:
Hmmm. Very enigmatic. My deep breaths are about to force a loss of consciousness. Before I pass out from reality exposure, I should say I have no bubbles left to pop. Lets just say, I could have done better with my idea but just being me, got in the way.
I can't help you. Maybe a long walk on a SHORT pier might help? Naaaaaaah. Forget it.
Where is the sign nazi!
Nazi, I'm pretty sure you live near Harvard and the BA (if you are who I suspect). That area has been under attack by signers for a couple weeks. The Tulsa Tree Trimmers have been getting the media good. Now
Hillary Clinton
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signs litter the right-of-way between the road and the sidewalk along commercial property (not spamming, there are 16 signs in 1 block so 16 times). Now, I think it might be an attempt to offset the Ron Paul graffiti on the other side of the road - but that's out of your domain.
Anyway, signs, everywhere! Not in people's yards either. But within inches of the street between sidewalk and street (I stand by my - if outside the sidewalk leave them alone regardless of the actual easement).
You're slacking.
Yep. We see 'em! Calling all Sign Nazis!! Kick 'em while they down, guys![:P][:P]
New whack-a-mole from the world famous Oklahoma State Sausage Factory:
2nd Session of the 51st Legislature (2008)
HOUSE BILL 2921 By: Trebilcock
AS INTRODUCED
An Act relating to crimes and punishments; amending 21 O.S. 2001, Section 1761.1, as amended by Section 3, Chapter 268, O.S.L. 2006 (21 O.S. Supp. 2007, Section 1761.1), which relates to litter; modifying distribution of fines; providing for a portion of fines to go to a person who reports a violation; and providing an effective date.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA:
SECTION 1. AMENDATORY 21 O.S. 2001, Section 1761.1, as amended by Section 3, Chapter 268, O.S.L. 2006 (21 O.S. Supp. 2007, Section 1761.1), is amended to read as follows:
Section 1761.1 A. Any person who deliberately places, throws, drops, dumps, deposits, or discards any garbage, trash, waste, rubbish, refuse, debris, or other deleterious substance on any public property or on any private property of another without consent of the property owner shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor.
B. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of subsection A of this section shall be punished by a fine of not less than Two Hundred Dollars ($200.00) nor more than Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than thirty (30) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
C. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of subsection A of this section with any flaming or glowing substance, or any substance which may cause a fire shall be punished by a fine of not less than Two Thousand Dollars ($2,000.00) nor more than Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than sixty (60) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment. The penalties collected from the payment of the citations shall, after deduction of court costs, be paid to the fire department of the district in which the flaming or glowing substance was discarded. Any person violating the provisions of this subsection shall be liable for all damages caused by the violation. Damages shall be recoverable in any court of competent jurisdiction.
D. During a burn ban declared by the Governor, any person convicted of violating the provisions of subsection A of this section with any flaming or glowing substances, or any substance which may cause a fire shall be punished by a fine of not less than Four Thousand Dollars ($4,000.00) nor more than Ten Thousand Dollars ($10,000.00) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one hundred twenty (120) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment. The penalties collected from the payment of the citations shall, after deduction of court costs, be paid to the fire department of the district in which the flaming or glowing substance was discarded. Any person violating the provisions of this subsection shall be liable for all damages caused by the violation. Damages shall be recoverable in any court of competent jurisdiction.
E. In addition to the penalty prescribed by subsection B of this section, the court shall direct the person to make restitution to the property owner affected; to remove and properly dispose of the garbage, trash, waste, rubbish, refuse, or debris from the property; to pick up, remove, and properly dispose of garbage, trash, waste, rubbish, refuse, debris, and other nonhazardous deleterious substances from public property; or perform community service or any combination of the foregoing which the court, in its discretion, deems appropriate. The dates, times, and locations of such activities shall be scheduled by the sheriff pursuant to the order of the court in such a manner as not to interfere with the employment or family responsibilities of the person.
F. In addition to the penalty prescribed in subsection B of this section and the restitution prescribed in subsection E of this section, the court may order the defendant to pay into the reward fund as prescribed in Section 1334 of Title 22 of the Oklahoma Statutes an amount not to exceed Two Thousand Dollars ($2,000.00).
G. The discovery of two or more items which have been dropped, dumped, deposited, discarded, placed, or thrown at one location and which bear a common address in a form which tends to identify the latest owner of the items shall create a rebuttable presumption that any competent person residing at such address committed the unlawful act. The discovery or use of such evidence shall not be sufficient to qualify for the reward provided in Section 1334 of Title 22 of the Oklahoma Statutes.
H. Any person may report a violation of this section, if committed in their presence, to an officer of the State Highway Patrol, a county sheriff or deputy, a municipal law enforcement officer or any other peace officer in this state. The peace officer shall then conduct an investigation into the allegations, if warranted. If a violation of this section has in fact been committed, and the peace officer has reasonable cause to believe a particular person or persons have committed the violation, a report shall be filed with the District Attorney for prosecution.
I. Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection H of this section, any peace officer of this state or of any political subdivision of this state may issue a state traffic citation to any person committing a violation of subsection A of this section. Such state traffic citation shall be in an amount not exceeding Two Hundred Dollars ($200.00) and the penalties collected from the payment of such citations shall, after deduction of court costs, be divided as follows:
1. One-half (1/2) One-third (1/3) shall be paid into the reward fund created pursuant to Section 1334 of Title 22 of the Oklahoma Statutes; and
2. One-half (1/2) One-third (1/3) shall be paid into the sheriff's service fee account for that county to be used for enforcing provisions of this section; and
3. One-third (1/3) shall be paid to the person who reported the violation. The provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to the peace officer issuing the citation. If no person reported the violation, or if the identity of the person is unascertainable, then one-half (1/2) of the penalty shall be paid to the reward fund and one-half (1/2) shall be paid into the sheriff's service fee account, as provided for in paragraphs 1 and 2 of this subsection.
J. The amount of bail for littering offenses specified in Section 1753.3 of this title and for trash dumping offenses specified in this section shall be the amount of fine specified in each statute plus costs including any penalty assessment, as well as costs incurred in Section 1313.3 of Title 20 of the Oklahoma Statutes.
SECTION 2. This act shall become effective November 1, 2008.
51-2-9547 SAB 01/14/08
Don't NOBODY be planting signs! And, WOE, major WOE, to the genius who gets DRUNK and throws a beer bottle onto the right-o'way!
I pulled some signs up last night; and it felt GOOOOOOOOOOOD!
Dew it TULSA! Go clean up OUR city...pull the signs! Dont vote for any IDIOT who cannot place a sign by legal means! Dont buy a house from an idiot who cannot plac e a sign by legal means. Dont get your trees trimmed by an idiot who cant place a sign by leagal means.
I am watching you! (and I stay up later than you do too)!
quote:
Originally posted by ARGUS
I pulled some signs up last night; and it felt GOOOOOOOOOOOD!
Dew it TULSA! Go clean up OUR city...pull the signs! Dont vote for any IDIOT who cannot place a sign by legal means! Dont buy a house from an idiot who cannot plac e a sign by legal means. Dont get your trees trimmed by an idiot who cant place a sign by leagal means.
I am watching you! (and I stay up later than you do too)!
Git 'em! Git 'em! Yeeaaaaaaaah[:P][:P]
I really like to pluck the illeagal signs placed by the litter on a stck vendors themselves! Ha Ha ha get 'em where it hurts!
CLEAN UP TULSA!
On our current path we will look like a Joplin if we are not carefull <bad thing; trust me>.
quote:
Originally posted by ARGUS
I really like to pluck the illeagal signs placed by the litter on a stck vendors themselves! Ha Ha ha get 'em where it hurts!
CLEAN UP TULSA!
On our current path we will look like a Joplin if we are not carefull <bad thing; trust me>.
I made a list the other day of the illegal signs on my south Tulsa route. They could be made public or used in some way to encourage them to follow the law. There weren't that many. Some non-profits, some politicians, some tree guys and of course the scams.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I made a list the other day of the illegal signs on my south Tulsa route. They could be made public or used in some way to encourage them to follow the law. There weren't that many. Some non-profits, some politicians, some tree guys and of course the scams.
Shoot the signs, Sign Nazis! They are EVERY WHERE.[:(!][:(!] Suppose you guys also keep a camera handy too? Hey, maybe even post them on Newson6.com? Naaaaaaah. [:P]
EVERYBODY, all together now, SING it:
And the sign said long haired freaky people need not apply
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said you look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do
So I took off my hat I said imagine that, huh, me working for you
woah!
Chorus:
Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign
V2
And the sign said anybody caught trespassing would be shot on sight
So I jumped on the fence and yelled at the house, Hey! what gives you the right
To put up a fence to keep me out or to keep mother nature in
If God was here, he'd tell you to your face, man you're some kinda sinner
Repeat Chorus:
Bridge:
Now, hey you Mister! can't you read, you got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
You can't even watch, no you can't eat, you ain't suppose to be here
Sign said you got to have a membership card to get inside Uh!
V3
And the sign said everybody welcome, come in, kneel down and pray
But when they passed around the plate at the end of it all,
I didn't have a penny to pay, so I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own little sign
I said thank you Lord for thinking about me, I'm alive and doing fine
Repeat Chorus
Repeat Chorus
First one I saw was an expensive sign on the ROW at 102nd & Yale..."Nature Works Art Show and Sale". Probably a worthy non profit fund raiser. Best go get your paint gun guys and splatter their investment. Then there was this one...Lost Dog....Pathetic lawbreakers trying to tug at our hearstrings.
Love that song.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
First one I saw was an expensive sign on the ROW at 102nd & Yale..."Nature Works Art Show and Sale". Probably a worthy non profit fund raiser. Best go get your paint gun guys and splatter their investment. Then there was this one...Lost Dog....Pathetic lawbreakers trying to tug at our hearstrings.
Love that song.
Oh boy. Oh boy! A sign for a worthy non-profit fund raiser? PERFECT![:P] Enough of worthy non-profit fund raisers in this crappy town.
Gary Trennepohl is way too OVEREXPOSED! Just once, I'd like to punch out his pearly whites.
I'd probably go for a NON-worthy shamelessly for-profit panhandling run through Brady for the benefit of Tulsa Young PROCRASTINATORS.[:D]
[/quote]
So what about all the bright *** LED signs at the casinos and Sonic? Those signs are much more distracting then any "tree trimming" or "work from home" sign on the side of the road. Most people have gotten accustomed to them and ignore them. The Casino and Sonic signs are blinding at times especially in areas where there arent street lights. I would much rather put up with a few street signs or "20% off going out of business" sign from COMPUSA vs those stupid LED signs. Speaking of COMPUSA, does it make it legal if its a person standing on the side of the road holding up the sign for the public? like for instance, quiznos and the COMPUSA signs mentioned above??
[/quote]
Has anyone seen the new LED sign for Al's Bistro?? That's the one om 71st where Tony Roma's and Bourbon Street have been? I saw it the other night and was blinded and it made me think of this thread....
LET'S CAMPAIGN FOR A CLEANER, GREENER OKLAHOMA!
Register your group for the 2008 Great American Cleanup™ in Oklahoma March 1 - May 31, 2008. Become eligible for grants, awards, prizes, special recognition, creative ideas...and be part of a statewide and nationwide effort! Registration forms are available at www.keepoklahomabeautiful.com. Register by March 1, 2008.
Grant Applications are also available for the Great American Cleanup™. The grant application deadline is February 15, 2008. You can also download this application from our website. Note: Only registered Great American Cleanup™ in Oklahoma 2008 projects are eligible to apply for a grant.
If you have any questions please email kob@coxinet. net or call (405)286-9141.
Thank you,
Courtney Whittier
------------ ----
Courtney Whittier
Keep Oklahoma Beautiful
6051 N. Brookline Ave, Ste 125
Oklahoma City, OK 73112
Ph. (405) 286-9141
Fax (405) 286-5952
kob2@coxinet. net
www.keepoklahomabeautiful.com (//%22http://www.keepoklahomabeautiful.com/%22)
Vote Green (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectID=62&articleID=20080215_7_A14_spanc02181%22)
Operation Clean Sweep begins April 1 in Tulsa. The month-long effort will officially begin Saturday, April 5 with Mayor Kathy Taylor's kick-off cleanup.
Come join us Saturday, April 5 at Nathan Hale High School, 6960 East 21st from 9 a.m. to 12 p.m. Check in for Mayor Taylor's Operation Clean Sweep event will be in the circle drive off 21st at the high school.
Volunteers will clean up the campus and parking area at Hale, and then work west along both sides of 21st street. Bags and gloves for volunteers, as well as water and recycling bins, will be provided by the Metropolitan Environmental Trust (M.e.t.)
The M.e.t. will also provide supplies throughout the month so that Tulsa residents can follow the example of Hale High School students and pick up their neighborhoods (or any trashy spot). Community Centers where supplies are available include:
Lacy Park, 2134 N. Madison Pl.
Reed Park, 4233 S. Yukon
McClure Park, 7440 E. 7th St.
Hicks Park, 3443 S. Mingo Rd.
Whiteside Park, 4009 S. Pittsburg Ave.
Bixby Sign Nazis on Patrol! (//%22http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0408/508724.html%22)
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by ARGUS
I really like to pluck the illeagal signs placed by the litter on a stck vendors themselves! Ha Ha ha get 'em where it hurts!
CLEAN UP TULSA!
On our current path we will look like a Joplin if we are not carefull <bad thing; trust me>.
I made a list the other day of the illegal signs on my south Tulsa route. They could be made public or used in some way to encourage them to follow the law. There weren't that many. Some non-profits, some politicians, some tree guys and of course the scams.
You should make a sign that lists the illegal signs and put them on the corners to scare off the bad businesses.
[:D]
Just wait for someone with a seizure disorder to get triggered by the flashing signs. Who pays - the city for allowing them or the store owner who installed them?
quote:
Just wait for someone with a seizure disorder to get triggered by the flashing signs. Who pays - the city for allowing them or the store owner who installed them?
No no no! This is my point with these signs.
Unfortunately we have become used to the "government" to solve these problems or worse, protect us from the problems before it "happens". The reality is, government does a poor job of just about anything ( I know, shocking eh?). Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of government. In the federalist papers, our founding fathers said that if men were angels, we wouldn't need government because everyone would do the right thing by one another.
Government, I believe, is far more effective at providing good laws that protect ones RIGHTS, and then a providing a good justice system to mediate all other issues that will of course arise. Because, we all know that we have problems that come up that have very little to do with ones civil liberties, etc.
Example,
Who is the victim of these of all these illegal signs? The city. It is city owned land, they hold the deed in almost all cases, no one else, So they should be able to police their land according to the rules set forth for them.
BUT, flashing sings one Joe Blows property is not the same. The victim ( if there is one) is not the city. It is the guy who claims light pollution, nuisance, etc.
The city should have a simple streamlined mediation process to mitigate these cases.
I hope I am explaining my position. I guess I just see it as a victim issue. Speeding = public right away, too easy to regulate constitutionally.
Private property = sticky because of constitutional property rights.
I think communities may ( and I am theorizing) find it an easier and more effective solution to allow people like the sign nazi to simply carry the burden of declaring any sign on private property a nuisance. Remember, we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty and so laws governing our property (constitutional rights) should be based on some infraction. No victim, no infraction.
All that being said, I still applaud the city of Tulsa putting a stop to any new permits until the matter can be addressed. I always feel that is a fair way to deal with the situation until it can be analyzed further. My suggestion above is more theoretical.
Thanks for giving me the space to "wonder"
[:D]
I've noticed that the city of Jenks has signs everywhere promoting their "herbal festival" both in Jenks as well as 71st & Riverside to 101st & Riverside area.
So are the benches illegal or not?
quote:
Originally posted by buzz words
I've noticed that the city of Jenks has signs everywhere promoting their "herbal festival" both in Jenks as well as 71st & Riverside to 101st & Riverside area.
So are the benches illegal or not?
According to City Ordinance Title 51 (//%22http://cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title51.asp%22) Section 3107.18, "no sign shall be permitted in the right-of-way of a street under any circumstances...Any sign located in the right-of-way of a public street is by this section declared a public nuisance, a danger to public safety..."
(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6110/1736/320/DSC00008.3.jpg)
Tulsa Revised Ordinance Title 42 Section 1800 (//%22http://cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title42-18.asp%22) defines the above sign on benches as an "outdoor advertising sign." It "directs attention to a business, commodity, service, or entertainment, sold or offered elsewhere than on the lot on which it is located."
Title 42 Section 1221.F (//%22http://cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title42-12.asp%22) regulates use conditions for outdoor advertising signs. "Outdoor advertising signs shall be permitted in CS, CG, CH, CBD, IL, IM and IH zoning districts when located within a freeway sign corridor."
Freeway defined, Title 42 Section 1800: "A street designated as a freeway on the Major Street Plan (//%22http://www.incog.org/mapping/default.htm%22)."
A freeway sign corridor is "an area 400 feet in width on each side of and adjacent to the publicly acquired right-of-way of a freeway."
Title 42 Section 1221.F.7: (//%22http://cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title42-12.asp%22) "an outdoor advertising sign shall be oriented to be primarily visible from the freeway."
According to Title 42 Section 1221.F.7., combined with Title 52 Section 3107.18, bench signs are non-conforming signs, declared "public nuisances" and "danger to public safety."
Title 42 Section 1403 (//%22http://cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title42-14.asp%22): "If the sign is nonconforming by reason of restrictions other than on its setback from R districts or from designated residential development areas, said sign shall be removed or made to conform on or before January 1, 1995."
Conclusion: Unless granted variances or special exceptions, bench signs subject to removal. They are non-conforming signs:
A) Statutorily defined as outdoor advertising signs;
B) Not located within freeway sign corridors;
C) Not primarily visible from the freeway;
D) Located on the public right-of-ways of Tulsa City-County Major Streets and Highway Plan (//%22http://www.incog.org/mapping/default.htm%22) primary and secondary arterials;
E) And, declared "public nuisances" and "danger to public safety."
Penalties, Title 42 Section 1502 (//%22http://cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title42-15.asp%22): Any person, firm or corporation violating any provisions of this code or failing to comply with any of its requirements, including violations of conditions and safeguards established in connection with grants of variance or special exceptions, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $500.00 or by imprisonment not exceeding 90 days, or by both such fine and imprisonment. Each day that a violation continues shall be deemed a separate offense.
[:(!]
I have a problem with all the benches.
There are more than 500 illegal benches in Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
I have a problem with all the benches.
There are more than 500 illegal bench's in Tulsa.
How do the benches distract you? I notice a billboard more often then a bench. Is this really a problem or a reason to complain?
What is the underlying reason?
Look at their location. Many are at the corner of intersections, a place where no bus could ever stop.
They are illegal and should be picked up by the city. They could never be permitted, but this guy (Cooke Advertising) keeps sticking them in right-of-way all over town. I can count over a dozen on Sheridan between 21st and 51st.
Do you think someone should be allowed to put advertising billboards all over town without permission from the property owners and without permits from the city?
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Look at their location. Many are at the corner of intersections, a place where no bus could ever stop.
They are illegal and should be picked up by the city. They could never be permitted, but this guy (Cooke Advertising) keeps sticking them in right-of-way all over town. I can count over a dozen on Sheridan between 21st and 51st.
Do you think someone should be allowed to put advertising billboards all over town without permission from the property owners and without permits from the city?
No, I don't but if a bench is next to a bus stop location I don't see how that would be a distraction.
What part of illegal do you not understand?
What right would someone have to just put billboards disguised as useless benches that no one would ever sit on?
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
What part of illegal do you not understand?
What right would someone have to just put billboards disguised as useless benches that no one would ever sit on?
Maybe if you read what I wrote you would understand me. Not once did I suggest that I do not understand what is and what is not legal. Oral sex in Oklahoma is still illegal but what justifies it? These non-flashing benches that are placed next to a bus stop do not distract you!! The sign is normally at or below Eye level if you are in a car. By the way do you drive a car or suv?. These benches that are not making me any money (FYI) are not a distraction. Once again the question still remains what is the underlying issue? Is this an opportunity to complain, is it that you dislike the advertisement company, what's the truth?
If your point is they should not be there because they're legal is true than if the company was able to produce permits and the city approved them would you still complain?
Now how about this one?
(http://www.geocities.com/teamargus/download.jpg)
Like this isn't going to be a distraction
How does a small business advertise without spending over $1000.00 per month with it being as affective as billboards?
quote:
Originally posted by buzz words
How does a small business advertise without spending over $1000.00 per month with it being as affective as billboards?
Are you assuming they have the right? Or are you just curious? My company does grassroots style advertising...we go to our customer, where they work and ask them for our business. I am in charge of marketing/advertising so I choose this method over just about any other. Far better long lasting benifits and no ugly signs.
What about the no solicitors signs on the door?
quote:
Originally posted by buzz words
How does a small business advertise without spending over $1000.00 per month with it being as affective as billboards?
General rule, advertising should comprise around 5% of the total business budget. If you need to make a splash at the start of a business you can take 3 years advertising budget and blow it at once, but then you have to reign yourself back for the next few years and promote word of mouth and community activity.
Paul, why are you edited a post you maid 3 months ago in a thread you started under a different screen name?
I'm not sure what you change, but I can't think of a good reason to either post in a thread under 2 different names OR to edit a comment a couple months after the fact.
Who's Paul....?