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Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: RecycleMichael on January 02, 2008, 02:02:53 pm http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A19016
JANUARY 2, 2008 The Hot 100 Urban Tulsa Weekly's guide to the most influential people in our city BY URBAN TULSA WEEKLY STAFF For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Matter can neither be created nor destroyed. An object in motion tends to stay in motion. What goes up, must come down. What works in the realm of physics doesn't necessarily apply in the realm of human endeavor, but the above are four truths that apply to our situation in Tulsa entering 2008. The first applies to all the city's unsung heroes. Some get credit, some don't. Some are maligned, some ridiculed. Some praised for more than they are worth. We include them all. You know who you are. Our reaction to them is proportionate. The second, Tulsa is what it is and is not going to change in the near future. Those on this list are part of the establishment we consider worth keeping. Others are those "tweakers" who can work within the system for good. Still other are the outsiders (by choice or circumstance) who nonetheless fight the good fight to make Tulsa a better place. Third, those on this list got there by setting their careers in motion through sheer force of will. Sure, a little talent and timing come into play, some connections and dues paid, to be sure, but we appreciate free thinking around here. We have many repeat honors to bestow upon those whose energy continues to flow. Finally, those whose ideas and momentum we have celebrated, be advised: the fall is imminent. Keep up the good work, don't let up or it could all come crashing down. Look at the proposed Wal-Mart downtown. Our Hot 100 are the sparks, the catalysts, the nuclear fission, that drives Tulsa. Some are self-made, some inherited their positions, some just found themselves in the right place at the right time with the right idea and passion to carry it out. And for Tulsa, these are the people and organizations who make it happen 365/24/7. Their passion is growth and development, righting wrongs, seeking truth and justice, usually, the American Way. Super women and men and corporate citizens who see things in black and white, shades of gray, and all the colors of the rainbow. We chose business and government leaders, local pop culture icons, artists, musicians, teachers and developers. We tried to choose individuals who have flown under the radar most of or all year, those whose influence on our city can be felt but isn't always recognized publicly. And, as we do every year, we've retired individuals who have made the list year after year, whose power and persuasion in Tulsa are old news by now and who will continue to carry weight in town year after year. We don't appreciate them any less; we've just come to expect their influence. And while we will always recognize it in other areas of the paper, we're saving their spot on this list for someone new. Of course, we can't recognize everyone. And thus we receive multiple letters after the publications of this issue telling us what moronic bastards we are for leaving "So-and-so" off the list. Most often, we know who isn't on the list. We've recognized their work with other stories and features and, once again, have decided to reserve the list for those we believe to be the Hot 100 of 2008. But still, send your letters, and we'll read them. Maybe we'll laugh, maybe we'll agree and maybe we'll have someone new to consider for 2009's list. And no, they are not in any particular order--unless you want to think so. 1. George Kaiser, The Kaiser Family Foundation. We retired this oilman last year after numerous runs on our Hot 100 list but decided to bring him back again for his commitment to Arkansas River development earlier this year. Kaiser, who is notoriously media shy, spent a rare moment out of his shell in an attempt to drum up some support for the Our River Yes campaign. Though voters didn't approve the tax increase that came with the plan, we encourage Kaiser to come back with an even better river development plan with totally private development money. 2. Barbara Santee. Get on this lady's mailing list if you want to know everything there is to know about progressive politics in Tulsa. She gathers and dissimilates information on an almost daily basis and can round up a group of activists at any given moment. 3. Jerry Gordon, Jenks Riverwalk developer. Tulsa wishes it had a Jerry Gordon of its own. 4. Public Service Co. of Oklahoma, also known as PSO, also known at AEP. Often maligned for cutting down trees, trying to bury lines in the neighborhoods of hoity toity Tulsans and accused of raking in the dough for electrical services. Thanks for responding so quickly to bring us back out of the Dark Ages after Ice Storm 2007 hit. Hopefully, if there is a next time (which we hope there isn't), the work you've done now will leave us more prepared--and more aware of the city's needy neighborhoods. 5. John Eagleton, City Councilor for District 7. This guy's shown himself to be a voice of sense and reason in city government. For the most part. 6. Heather Savage, mother extraordinaire. As reported in our 1-7 November edition, this single mother adopted six children from the Department of Human Services. And she's only 26. 7. Oklahoma's Indian tribes and their leaders. 8. Michael Johnson, Vice President of Williams. Suggested by a reader for the potential he has to be a "great political leader for our city." He has an unshakeable optimism and vision for the city of Tulsa. He's been on our list for a few years now, and we are waiting for him to hit his stride. 9. Aurora Ramirez Hilton, Founder of the Greater Tulsa Hispanic Affairs Commission. She serves on the boards of the Citizens Crime Commission and the Community Action Project and is a translator in the Hispanic community, striving to improve race relations in Tulsa from the inside out. And, she's 82. 10. Tom Kivisto. It's probably time to retire this one, too, but we'll give him another year, though we're sure (and we hope) he'll remain active in the community for many years to come. 11. Crooked X. Sure, they're only kids, but they've already toured with the likes of Ted Nugent and Alice Cooper. With Doc McGhee directing their path and Donnie Frizzell managing, a record deal reportedly in the works and talk of a possible reality show on MTV, the future looks bright for these 14-year-old rockers. We just hope they don't peak too soon. 12. Elliot Nelson, entrepreneur. We'll take him off the list as soon as he stops opening and maintaining successful businesses. 13. Eye Candy Burlesque. They take their clothes off, but in a classy way. We love it. 14. Andrew Rice, Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate. We hope you give Inhofe a run for all his monied connections. 15. Tulsa Now. Helps us keep hand on the indigenous pulse as tulsanow.org. It has an agenda, but it's genuine. 16. Twenty-somethings who are taking the lead and starting their own businesses to make Tulsa better. There are a lot of them, and we're glad they're doing it. 17. Kostis Protopapas, Interim Artistic Director for Tulsa Opera. It's going to take some big, talented feet to fill Carol Crawford's shoes, and we think Protopapas is just the man for the job. He's been TO's chorusmaster since 2001, and whether or not he takes the head honcho position, we know he'll remain steadfastly dedicated to the betterment of Tulsa's opera company. 18. Cason Carter, District 9 City Councilor. Moving straight from the womb to local politics, we hope this young councilor will use his youth and fresh outlook to make positive changes, not only in his district, but also in the city. And, we hope he'll inspire other young professionals to do the same. 19. Bob Waldrop, Oklahoma Sustainability Network. Being on this lists means knowing everything there is to know about sustainability in Oklahoma and the U.S. 20. Zuri Louis and Steve Cluck, owners and designers of the famed Louis & Cluck t-shirts. These two made the list last year for inspiring pride in the city through colorful t-shirts with catchy logos. We're keeping them on the list this year because, after a year in business with no signs of stopping, they've proved their designs are more than a fleeting fad. 21. PDA, Tulsa's own hip hop star. With a national tour already under his belt and plans for touring well into 2008, PDA may be the next act to put Tulsa back on the musical map. 22. Chloe Brown, Chloe's House. Through a program called Fitting Back In, Brown wants to offer women recently freed from incarceration a place to live and get their lives back in order. But that's not without plenty of opposition from her north Tulsa neighbors. Still, she seems determined to offer these women the means to change their lives. Seems like some of her neighbors would do well to follow her lead instead of fighting her all the way. 23. Community Action Project of Tulsa. "Making self-sufficiency a reality for low-income children and families." Sure it's a slogan, but they actually do it--with free tax preparation, affordable housing, financial education, early childhood education and more. 24. Charlene Thomas-Swinson, TU Women's Basketball Coach. First ever NCAA Tournament appearance? Check. First postseason win? Check. 25. The Pride of Broken Arrow Marching Band. They were national champions in 2006. That's a big deal. We wish them the best of luck in 2007. 26. The Child Abuse Network. Is there anything more important? 27. Ken Tracy, founder of Choregus Productions. This guy saw a lot of national and international performers who weren't making it to Tulsa, to Oklahoma or to the Midwest at all. So he decided to form a brand new production company and bring them here himself. With its first full season launched in 2007, Choregus has been responsible for bringing first class acts to town whom Tulsans otherwise wouldn't have had a chance to see here. 28. Jeff Martinson and David Peagarden, musician operators of the Blannk Slate Complex. These two have taken a three-club property at 1st and Detroit and turned it into a musician and audience-friendly venue, hosting some of the best local and national gigs in town in only a few short months of life. 29. Dave Simpson, UTW cartoonist. And probably one of the keenest senses of humor in the city. 30. Phat Phillies. Little restaurant downtown that could rival any local fast food establishment in spite of obscure location and lack of branding. 31. Mother Tucker Ministry Distribution Center. Catering to the city's so-called outcasts. We need more of you. 32. Native American Casinos: Cherokee, Creek Nation, Osage Million Dollar Elm. Why go to Vegas when we can get it all right here? 33. Todd Stephens, founder of Tulsa Biofuels. Along with Robert Stephens and Randy Kimberlin, this guy is doing his part to create biodiesel in Tulsa by turning old cooking oil into fuel. Sounds kinda gross, but it's pretty damn cool. 34. Stephan Egerton, owner and producer of Armstrong Recording. This guy provides an affordable and accessible place for hard rock and punk bands to record. Even MxPx has stopped in and laid down tracks. 35. Eric Marshall, Marshall Brewing Company. Though his business isn't totally off the ground yet, we're excited about the prospect of a local brewery. 36. Reuben Gant, President of the Greenwood Chamber of Commerce and major force behind the North Tulsa Memorial. 37. Msgr. Gregory Gier, rector, Holy Family Cathedral Parish-for keeping the city's oldest elementary and middle schools thriving as one of downtown's greatest hidden assets. And, for embarking upon an aggressive renovation of the city's oldest, historic basilica at 8th St. and Boudler Ave. 38. Dr. Barry Epperley, Tulsa Signature Symphony. Still goin' strong, we see and hear. 39. The power behind the Preserve Midtown campaign: Patty Southmayd, Barbara Van Hanken, and Melissa Waller. Thanks for trying to save one of our favorite parts of the city. 40. My Solstice, hot young band on the rise. Not content to be just another hard rock group, the guys in My Solstice aren't afraid to tap into pop and progressive rock to change or expectations of local music. 41. Marcello Angelini, Artistic Director of Tulsa Ballet. For someone who was discouraged from dancing because he suffered from scoliosis as a child, he's done some pretty amazing things with the Tulsa company. 42. Kent Morlan. Keeping the city and Downtown Tulsa Unlimited accountable for every decision they make regarding downtown Tulsa. 43. Ken Busby, Oklahoma Arts and Humanities Council. This year, he and the rest of the team are on the list because of the creative center they will unveil in the Mathews Building in 2009. 44. Recycle Tulsa. It ain't easy being green. 45. Bart Ford, owner of Under the Mooch. This local record store aims to provide discerning listeners with all the music they can never hear on the radio. The place also welcomes audiences to some of the coolest free concerts in the city. 46. Paul Nosak, Nosak Tree Service. This guy probably made a killing after the ice storm hit, but you have to appreciate his timing for starting his own reality show, Nosak Raw--weeks before the storm hit. Not that we're sure who would want to watch 30 minutes of men taking down trees, but there's gotta be someone, right? We're setting the DVR to record if only for this statement by the Tree Man himself: "This show documents us tackling the deadliest vegetation on the planet. I try to live my life without regrets and I'm not afraid of failure." Damn straight. 47. Coffeehouse on Cherry Street owner Cheri Asher. It may not look like much from the outside, but with a cool patio, plenty of art within and some of the best coffee in town (locally owned and operated Topeca), it's one of our favorite places to hang out, get work done or catch up with old friends. Here, you almost always run into someone you know. 48. Chuck Lamson, Tulsa Drillers baseball. If we put you on the list, will you build a ballpark downtown? 49. Matt Moffett and Mona Pittenger, founders of the Tulsa Girls Art School Project. This new project gives underprivileged elementary-age girls an opportunity to learn about and explore the visual arts, an opportunity most of them wouldn't otherwise have. 50. The nutty folks at Nightingale Theater for all they do and could do for the community in original and eye-opening dramatic productions. 51. Wilma Palmer, Tulsa County's first female African American judge. Took some work, but you did it. 52. Keith Skrzypczak, founder, editor and publisher of Urban Tulsa Weekly. He gets his name on the list for making keeping all you other guys accountable. Plus, if it weren't for him, we couldn't publish this list. 53. Ra$pberry Grunt. Cool girls making cool clothes. In Tulsa. 54. Chet Cadieux, President/CEO of QuickTrip, chairman of Tulsa Metro Chamber of Commerce board of directors. A next generation leader who's daddy started the business and prepped him to keep his corporation based in Tulsa and continues to help our city thrive. 55. John Walton Brooks, author, 100 Historic Tulsa Homes and others. With this Tulsa-based series, he's reminded us to appreciate the history of the architecture we see around us. 56. Linda Collier, owner of the Cave House on Charles Page Blvd. She bought the house because she wanted to see what was inside, and now she's giving other curious onlookers the same opportunity by giving tours of the historical place she's renovating. 57. Annie Ellicott. The young siren is proving to be a voice to be reckoned with in Tulsa's jazz community. 58. Coney Island, downtown's original fast food since the roaring twenties. 59. State Representative Jabar Shumate, District 73. We see this guy going places. Big places. 60. The folks at Circle Cinema. Until they give us a reason to take them off the list. 61. Daniel Gulick, founder, Cough Syrup Green and the creator of "Nude," Tulsa's only juried erotic art show. 62. Tara Mason and Christine Crowe, initiators of the Tulsa Craft Mafia and organizers of October's Indie Emporium in downtown Tulsa. For two days, the Mathews Warehouse was occupied by crafty creators and shoppers, bartering for Tulsa-made goods. We'd love to see more events of this kind around Tulsa. If you can do it once, ladies, there's no reason you can't do it again. Tomorrow. 63. Tulsa Indian Coalition Against Racism. Reminding us to be respectful of all cultures. 64. Micha Alexander, real estate developer. One of the first to jump on the downtown dwelling bandwagon. We're glad the idea caught on. 65. Robby Bell, owner, Bell's Amusement Park. Thanks for all the years of fun. Hope you rebuild soon. 66. Dave Percefull, record producer, musician and owner of Yellow Dog Studios. Some of Tulsa and the country's best acts have come through these studios. 67. Julie Tattershall, Artistic Director, Heller and Clark Theatres. This woman has been a driving force in community theatre for more than 20 years and shows no signs (that we've seen--and we hope not to see any) of quitting. 68. LIFE Senior Services. As the city's population gets older and more readers have to begin dealing with the joys and sorrows of aging grandparents and parents, this group, formerly Tulsa Senior Services, is ensuring that our aging relatives have access to quality care and services and that their caregivers have the support that is needed. 69. Starr Hardgrove, founder of Evandrake Productions and Tulsa Creative Network. He's doing all he can to promote and encourage thespians and creative types, uniting them all through a networking website that will allow them to foster relationships and find work. 70. Michael Bates. Love him or hate him, whether or not you agree with him, this guy knows his stuff and doesn't hesitate to keep city and government leaders accountable and on their toes. 71. The anonymous writers and publishers of Tulsa Crime Monthly. Even TPD officers turn to this short paper, if not for news, then at least for a good laugh. 72. Educators in the Tulsa Public School system. 73. Tom and Susan Wallace, renovating yet another downtown building. 74. Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays. The local chapter was ahead of its time when it was conceived in the mid-'80s--the 20th chapter established in the U.S.--and has been offering support to the friends and families of homosexuals ever since. 75. Deborah Hunter, poet extraordinaire. 76. GHOSTS. Tulsa's own avant-pop idiot savants aren't afraid to marry Elton John with Flaming Lips or Queen with Queens of the Stone Age, keeping our local indie scene form taking itself too seriously. 77. All of Oklahoma's service men and women and vets. 78. Todd Graham, TU Football Coach. Oklahoma loves football, and Tulsa loves Todd Graham. Great first season. Hope the feeling is mutual as the major programs come a-knockin'. 79. KRSU Radio. For giving us an outlet for all styles of music in one place and supporting local musicians for more than an hour a week. 80. Aida Aydinyan, Barthelmes Conservatory. Making classical music training available to the city's most musically gifted. 81. TJ and Angie Green, founders of Diversafest. It just gets better every year. 82. Peace House Tulsa. It changed locations and leadership, but it's still working to promote peace in Tulsa. 83. Radio Tulsa (NPR). Where those in the know go for local broadcast news. 84. South Tulsa Citizens Coalition for opposing a city-built bridge linking Jenks to Tulsa via Yale Ave. and Yale Place in the best interest of its citizens. 85. On the other hand, Bill Bacon, Infrastructures Inc., the company proposing to build the bridge, for its unbridled entrepreneurship. 86. Dewey Bartlett, Jr. Keener Oil and Gas. Taking what his father gave him even further. 87. Nedra Babcock, founder of the Dustin Babcock Foundation in memory of her grandson, who lost his life to drugs and alcohol. 88. Oklahomans for Ballot Access Reform. Seriously, it's time. 89. Davit Sauders. His podcasts are picked up by people around the world, exposing international listeners to Oklahoma music. Shouldn't we be more famous than we are by now? 90. Ken Draper and Tim Gillean, Openarms Youth Project. Addressing and solving the problem of homelessness among Tulsa's youth. 91. Sarah Coburn, rising opera star. She's making a name for herself on national opera stages and debuted with the Tulsa Opera this year as Lakme in Lakme. Fun fact? She's Senator Tom Coburn's daughter. 92. C.D. Ward, editor, The Star, a monthly magazine dedicated to LGBT issues in Oklahoma and the surrounding area. 93. Tim Baker, chef, The Brasserie. Mmm, mmm good. 94. Linda Gray Murphy. The woman is actively involved in nearly every progressive movement and organization in the city. 95. Mike Case, University of Tulsa's very own Boone Pickens. Seems to be helping, as TU's sports are finally garnering an audience of their own. But what are they going to do about getting a respectable crowd in that basketball arena? 96. Linda Beale, Arts Enriching Kids. Another worthy organization offering a creative voice to less-than-privileged children. 97. TU's art program and the Alexandre Hogue Gallery. Bringing world-class exhibits, lectures and instruction to not only TU students, but also the city at large. 98. Rocketplane XP. Who knew that the cutting edge of space travel was being built in Oklahoma? That should keep the other states off our backs for a while. 99. La Semana. Thanks for putting certain city and government issues into perspective. 100. Mayor Kathy Taylor. In between all of the photo ops, guest appearances and press conferences, she's also managed to do her job and get a few things done for the city. We suppose that's all we can ask. (pull box) People we hope will make the list in 2008: You're still a little new to Tulsa, but that's not to say we don't have hope for your future. Ron Palmer. Maybe he'll be a better Police Chief than north Tulsa residents and leaders are expecting. Dr. Michael Zolkoski, TPS Superintendent. We put you on the list last year because we had high hopes that your influence would be remarkable and instantaneous, but we're holding off in 2007 until we see a little more. (pull box) Retirees. These guys and gals have been on our list for years, but, if we don't mention them, someone writes to us freaking out. Peggy, Walt and every other Helmerich, living or dead The Zarrows Lynn Schusterman Maurice Kanbar The Arkansas River Sharon King Davis The Lortons Anyone with the last name LaFortune, Chapman, Reynolds or Seigfried. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: Conan71 on January 02, 2008, 02:10:35 pm RM-
Did you get a haircut? Something looks different. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: RecycleMichael on January 02, 2008, 02:27:35 pm I changed my online title to something more fitting than "troublemaker".
One of my resolutions this year was to not cause trouble. It lasted almost a day. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: Conan71 on January 02, 2008, 02:29:06 pm And here I thought you'd shaved your beard off or cut your hair shorter. I knew something was different.
Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: FOTD on January 02, 2008, 02:41:40 pm Sorry....couldn't get past Eye Candy Burlesque's #13 rating.....the mag needs serious help.
Evelyn Wood's technique caused me to see Peagarden instead of Teagarden and therefore thanks for the laugh RM. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: RecycleMichael on January 02, 2008, 03:03:04 pm Eye Candy cuts?
Maybe Conan is right and I do need a haircut... Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: sgrizzle on January 02, 2008, 03:05:21 pm quote: That's what I thought they were talking about originally. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: Conan71 on January 02, 2008, 03:19:41 pm It helps if the writer(s) actually know who they are talking about. Anyone else know John Walton Brooks? Try again. Peagarden was a funny one as well.
At least the TYPros and YPTulsa weren't on the list. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: cannon_fodder on January 02, 2008, 03:28:20 pm Don't you supposed #16 was eluding to both of them?
Hey, if those organizations can somehow help attract new young professionals they have my full support. I talk to many managers who want or need educated young people and can not find them in Tulsa. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: Conan71 on January 02, 2008, 03:48:27 pm quote: Nope, #16 was referring to 20-somethings who actually do something. Not YP's who stand around with their hands in their pockets and take credit for other's hard work. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: waterboy on January 03, 2008, 08:32:43 am One publisher made the list, but not the largest or most influential.[;)]
I just can't give any credence to UT. The whole golden Urby thing where advertisers are awarded "readers choice" awards and plaques based supposedly on readers' votes rather than the size of their ad space, completely negates any value they offer. Trashy publication. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: RecycleMichael on January 03, 2008, 09:10:34 am I always look forward to the Hot 100 list. I think they do a pretty good job and identifing people who will have an impact in the upcoming year. The list has a few too many musical acts and not enough religious leaders to be taken too seriously, in my opinion, however.
I like Urban Tulsa magazine. I have been an advertiser as long as anybody in town. They offer a very affordable ad rate and people actually see my ads and comment to me. I like reading Michael Bates political columns and think Brian Ervin writes on topics that no one else is covering. Yes, it is a trashy magazine, but tame compared to others I have seen in other cities. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: waterboy on January 03, 2008, 10:19:02 am quote: I know it has its place. Like Tulsa People, Tulsa Kids, OK Mag etc., they all serve a segment of the market. It may in fact serve your needs quite well and I'm glad for that. I know the bars and strip joints love them. But they are such small (unsubstantiated) distribution (even less than they claim usually) with unsubstantiated readership that they are almost irrelevant as agents of change. In fact they don't even want that burden if it upsets the mainstream. They exist to stroke the publishers ego at a slightly higher level than the the egos of the advertisers. If some money is to be made, it will undoubtedly be the publisher who makes it. I remember the advice offered by pr folks to the refinery management when UT exposed the higher incidence of bladder cancers downwind of their smoke stacks, (one of their more admirable efforts) "Don't worry, from what we can tell no one reads the thing." In fact, it had very little effect at all. From that point on the real stories diminished and were replaced by opinions, rumor and grandstanding. Their lack of integrity enrages me. Featuring cerebral essays and moralist columnists in the front pages and immorality from thereon kills their credibility. Its a bacchanalian youth publication. Fine. They want the money and attention from booze, sex, gambling and prostitution but they also want to be regarded as strong thinkers and journalists. Hard to do that with a straight face. They could have done better. BTW, and I mean this with no vitriol, do you leave it lying around your home for the children to peruse? My youngest is 14 and I won't allow it into the home. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: RecycleMichael on January 03, 2008, 11:27:57 am I hide my Urban Tulsa Weekly under my High Times magazine, next to the Bigg Juggs Monthly collection and partially covered by my limited edition of Mein Kampf...(just kidding).
I like that they are so scattered. I relate to scattered interests. I think they print those conservative columns only because they haven't anyone willing and capable of writing liberal columns. Keith (the owner) likes shaking things up a bit and is always trying to be contrarian. The sex ads are really the only thing I don't read. I hardly ever go to clubs, but I read what bands are playing where, I read the reviews by GK Hizer of music I will never hear, and I read news of the weird just to look for names of relatives. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: sgrizzle on January 03, 2008, 12:14:01 pm quote: I read OSCN looking for names of relatives. Urban Tulsa's escort ads seem to be on the decline. Other than the accidental nude woman a few months back, it's seemed a lot tamer. I think someone like DoubleA would make a good rant column to counter the conservative columns. You need someone controversial and "out there." Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: TheArtist on January 03, 2008, 01:26:41 pm I like Urban Tulsa, and I like its "edgier" mixed, nature as well. Its not the NY Times, it is what it is. Most of the cities I have ever been to have rags just like it. Its also a great resource for visitors to find out whats playing where and what some of the night spots are. As for readership, its just about every place I go, so I dont know how people can miss it. Kids, I dont know why anyone would have any problem with their kids looking at it? In this day and age, there aint nothing in there they havent seen and heard of a hundred times elsewhere, and if your afraid they will see something in UT you dont want them to, just shows you havent talked with them enough so that they can have a healthy perspective, understanding, and attidude about of all the same stuff they are seeing and hearing other places. In other words you are hiding your head in the sand and being negligent, obviously leaving them to deal with it "however they may" versus how you would responsibly want them to with your guidance.
Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: waterboy on January 03, 2008, 02:28:55 pm quote: You might want to re-read your last post and consider it. I have two adult children and one left at home. Naivete left me back in the eighties. Actually, around their childbirth. I don't/didn't shield my boys but I damn sure didn't lead them to believe that drinking, whoring, objectifying and "heinie parties" were absolutely necessary for the full enjoyment of the human experience. That is what college is for anyway.[:D] I made sure copies of Time, Newsweek, Wall Street Journal, Tulsa World and other more enlightening rags were around the house. And yes, in spite of their reluctance I often discussed with them matters of drinking and sex. Though in reality, young boys don't listen much but they do watch closely. I was a late parent so, like Michael, I didn't pay much attention to the music or bar scene during that period and I didn't keep UT around to discuss with them. If you have kids younger than twelve the subject matter, the phone numbers, the eroticism of the weekly is simply not appropriate. Its not that it is lewd or lascivious, its that your children pay attention to what you keep around the house as it must be important to you. Once again, my critique is that they don't stay true to what their segment is. Their politics is of no interest to me then or now. Other weeklies did a better job of that. Their take on fashion, music, bars etc. is what they have expertise on. When I am curious about those venues I pick one up. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: Conan71 on January 03, 2008, 03:15:40 pm I'm pretty much with you WB. I have never really outright hid anything from my girls, there are just somethings I don't keep easy to access.
I guess you could say I've been a protective parent, not over-protective and I've tried to steer my girls off into constructive interests rather than leaving them to their own devices or influence from friends. I've been able to compare the way my kids are turning out vs. the children of my more permissive friends and I find I'm having far fewer problems with mine. I've found even when the feedback from kids is limited to zero in a discussion that they do learn and gain influence from their parents. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: tulsascoot on January 03, 2008, 11:10:06 pm I am glad to see others who share my dislike of UT. Bottom line is that the writing is sub par, rarely edited for grammar, and the features are often some hokey excuse for a magazine article. If they would actually get a couple of real writers and stop having so many "special editions" (I mean, really, who the f wants to see an Urban Tulsa "swimsuit issue"?!) and start reporting on things that matter, it might be worth using to line a bird cage.
For now, I just use it to light my charcoal. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: dggriffi on January 03, 2008, 11:13:36 pm im with you conan. as far as im concerned, permissive parenting causes a majority of problem kids with extreme authoritative causing only a minor fraction of the troubled kids.
Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: Conan71 on January 03, 2008, 11:16:28 pm Crosswords, Bates, and Ervin are about all I read. We might grab one for movie listings if we need them on the fly. I quit reading the movie reviews when I got tired of hearing about the reviewer's personal life.
Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: joiei on January 04, 2008, 10:15:41 pm I looked over their list and was NOT impressed with their choices. Boring and slanted to their political bent. Who cares about UTW, they are not relevant to the city. Just a bunch of crybabies.
Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: TheArtist on January 05, 2008, 11:03:46 am quote: I suppose every household is different. The take that those things may be perceived to be "absolutely necessary for the full enjoyment of the human experience." well... I dont think any healthy individual, child or not, would think so. And that is what I am talking about here. Someone who brings their children up in a healthy, happy environment. I dont have kids of my own, but I am very close to my sisters who all have kids. One sister even works for me part time now. When the ice storm hit and 2 of my sisters lost electricity I had them over and their kids. Put the kids to work on a mural lol, nothing like free child slave labor [8D]. One of the girls asked me "Now tell me again why we are doing this uncle Will?" I said " Cause you get to be warm and eat if you do." she said "Oh yea, right, good reason" lol "Back to work ya little grubs!" lol We all had fun. The sister who works for me has 4 boys, two are about 10 and 11, and a teenage girl. She is a great mom. They all make straight A's, with the occasional B. She takes them to soccer practice, cheerleading, etc. They have to do their chores in the morning. She always has great parties, for the kids and us adults. That girl cooks more food than anyone I know and brings way to many cookies and cakes to work lol. She works part time for me and at another job. Commutes from Adair to do them. I dont know where she gets the energy level she has. She really talkes to her kids, they have an organized, structured life, yet full of fun and activities. As for drinking, my sister makes the best drinks lol. The parties and get togethers are mixed crowds, gay and straight. As with anything there are boundries. Drinking and parties dont mean drunkeness and lechery. I have the occasional drink but have never been drunk a day in my life. I am sure she talks to her kids about sex, dating, relationships and what makes a good relationship, just as candidly and naturally as anything else, laying out boundries, whats proper and whats not, and even having a good laugh on occasion. Its something that starts early, cause questions do get asked no matter what the age. And a parent, imo, would do well to answer those questions in a candid, and age appropriate manner and in a way you would answer or talk about anything else. Its not something one suddenly brings up in a private conversation using hushed nervous tone when the kid "comes of age" lol. I guess I am just trying to portray an active, healthy, balanced, fun loving, well structured, family with loads and loads of good communication skills. I am willing to bet that if any of here kids saw the stuff in the UT magazine, they would either laugh at it and think it silly, and or not give it a second glance. They would probably react to it in a more adult, responsible manner and context than most adults I know. It wouldnt matter if the UT, Time Magazine or the Wal Street Journal, happened to be lying around, the kids have been brought up well enough that it wouldnt matter. Eeeeverything else in the daily environment matters not a few dorky pictures and ads in some little newspaper. I remember one client who bought a house that had this large fireplace. On the fireplace were 2 classical stone, female figures holding up the mantle that had their "boobs" showing. She was all about having those statues torn out and removed because she had 2 boys. I wanted to ask why? What were those boys going to do or how would it affect them? What? Was she afraid they were going to run up to the statues drooling and start humping the things? It was absurd. She wanted to be offended and she wanted to bring her kids up in a way were they would react to them,,, well I dont know how they would react. If my sisters kids went in to that house they wouldnt think a thing about them other than perhaps the fireplace looked nice. Heck, I would hate to see that lady take her kids to Europe lol. No, not the same as those ads in UT magazine, but it is an example of how its the parents choice on how to bring up the kids and how they want their kids to react to things of any sort. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: waterboy on January 05, 2008, 03:00:13 pm Artist, we all have a tendency to speak on any topic with authority as we consider each of ourselves worldly, erudite, moral, educated, well adjusted, contributing, etc. It then becomes easy to point at others child rearing and see them as inferior. I am so glad for your sister and her family. There are many ways to raise a family that result in children with the above listed characteristics and all are in my mind acceptable.
My oldest son has a friend that frankly was raised in a situation quite dissimilar. His parents are accomplished in their own fields. He had little responsibility for chores other than grades and a little housework. He graduated top of his law school class and has never been in trouble. Personable, wacky, clever and smart. He was raised in a totally different atmosphere than your sisters kids but seemed to have an inherent sense of personal disciplin. Maybe that came from his family's wealth or genetic intelligence? Contrastingly, we had two friends our age who had the family you describe. He was an exec, she was a school teacher and they lived in a suburban home with lots expected of them. They were devastated when he dropped out of college and became a mechanic. As though that was a failure! All my brothers and sister were raised with the same parents but I am often considered the "strange" one. I am simply wired a little differently. Nature vs nurture will always be a continuuing discussion when it comes to raising children. Though I believed in nurture as a young college student in psych classes, after much direct experience, I have now begun to realize the preponderence of factors are nature. Like walnut and pine a person may be manipulated with tools and finishes to look the same and accomplish the same tasks, but you won't change its basic nature. Excuse my pontificating. Or laugh if you like! No matter how good the connection with your boys, or how disciplined the environment, it is a poor example to leave trashy publications laying around. With that logic, leave Penthouse on the coffee table. They may laugh at them for their content, then later laugh at you for keeping them around. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: TheArtist on January 05, 2008, 04:31:05 pm Your saying that UT is a trashy publication akin to Penthouse. I disagree. It is found in many places around town free for anyone to pick up. Restaurants, hotels, the barber shop, etc. It goes without saying that there are plenty of different households and ways to bring up kids and do it well. Your descriptions of the families and people above are apparently examples of just that and say nothing to whether or not it would have been "hazardous" or inappropriate to have left a UT laying around? What poor "example" do you think it would be sending in any of those various good households? Or are you saying that anyone who picks one of those papers up and then leaves it out at their home, well its then a bad household? Those are bad parents setting a bad example? What specifically is the bad example they are setting?
I happened to pick up a UT just today lol. I am looking at it as I type this. I know, a life of debauchery and sin. Lets see in this week we have... Articles about; elections, the hot 100, ( perhaps the word "hot" is a bit lewd?), the rainy day fund, movies, restaurant reviews, sports, going to art galleries, etc.... Then there are the ads;... Here is one for Mathis Brothers, "Official" GMAC Bowl watch party at Full Moon, George Carlin at the PAC "I suppose many people find him offensive", Southern Nazaring University, Express jet, oooh here we go, Urby and the Decadend Chocolate festival, siiiinful indeed. Hey BB King at the PAC now that I would like to see. The 10 tenors, will pass on that. McNellies, Boston pub and grill,Kilkenneys, Oh oh, here we go a scantily clad flirty woman... Unlimited Tanning "At the Beach,Tanning Superstore"! The message this must be sending, we surely need to protect our children from this. Couple movie promos, Legend, Atonement, Juno "the movie with the pregnant teenager" now that could be controversial,,, List of live music acts around town, Some shady looking people playing at the Cains. Here is something,,, Cloud 9 "Official Chili Bowl Race Stop" hmmm, the girl advertising for the tanning place was more provocative than the girl on this. Perhaps we should not let our children see any ads for tanning salons? Classifieds, Jobs, Astrology another controversial subject. Here we are on the last few pages, News of the Weird and "Live Links" chatline, Tulsa Singles, the girsl on those look very sweet actually lol. Then we are back to Decorative Concrete, Edible Arrangements, Window Tinting and Cherokee Casino Monopoly Big Event! Yep having this in ones home is surely a sign of sin and debauchery run amuck. I have seen more "harmful" stuff in Teen magazines, the Simpsons, heck more skin and controversy in Time Magazine articles and ads. Perhaps its the evil influence of that Bates guy that we should protect our children from? [8D] BTW, if you find the UT offensive or potentially harmful to children, I dare say you have probably not seen many magazines, advertisements, billboards, television, etc. from or in Europe. Its amazing anyone on that continent manages to grow up unscarred and stable. [;)] Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: AVERAGE JOE on January 05, 2008, 06:59:42 pm Guess I'm the only one who likes UTW? I always read Bates, Ask a Mexican, and this or that throughout. If nothing else, I read through all the ads to find out what bands are playing at various clubs. Useful.
Maybe you guys are projecting something onto them that they're not even trying to be? Other than a bit of local political coverage and Bates' column, UTW generally doesn't take itself too seriously, which is just about the right tone to me. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: inteller on January 05, 2008, 07:24:36 pm quote: it is a good rag to find classy whores. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: waterboy on January 05, 2008, 11:02:04 pm quote: That's ridiculous. I got through your first paragraph and realized you either know someone there, do work for them or are related. You misread my posts then made fantasy comparisons. I never said it was akin to Penthouse. The logic of your remarks will take you there. If the conversation were worthwhile or I thought you were serious I would cherry pick articles, ads, classifieds, pics and such from past issues to show you just how low class they have been. If they have cleaned it up since I read it last week, then kudos to them. But as a rule, they take ads that credible publications will not. Still I don’t begrudge them their place at the table. But you continue to ignore my only criticism. I don’t care that they make their living from the entertainment segment of the market. And as far as readership, well, you are what you read and if you think that its worthy of your coffee table, then fine by me but don’t try to convince me it has any merit other than music, movies, bars and restaurants. My irritation is that they don’t stay in that segment. They try to cover political issues, and topics outside of that segment. Bates and Simonson are their most common feature writers. One a former republican party chairman and the other a noted right wing conservative. They always say they will print any well written viewpoints from both sides of the aisle, they just never seem to find any other viewpoints. That’s curious because they are out there. Why do they do this? Because there is simply not as much profit in covering the tiny, getting tinier, entertainment segment in Tulsa. They want to make the step to a real newspaper with real titan advertisers that pay big bucks to reach quantifiable multi segment readership. There is simply little reason in my mind for them to try to parade themselves as journalism now when they are a poorly circulated, clubbish little party weekly. AT LEAST TULSA PEOPLE KNOWS WHO THEY ARE! They are a poorly circulated, clubbish little society magazine that covers the local tea sippers, and the oilies. They don’t make my coffee table either. I bet you love them. Good source of business. I do wish someone would publish a credible well balanced tabloid of commentary and local news in Tulsa. It was done in the past but usually they die when the publisher is burned out or finds a good job. Oh well. Take my posts and classify them as just one more illiterate, unsophisticated Tulsan you have to put up with. I spent years in local advertising, William, while you were becoming enlightened. I was in the business when the newspaper ran Scryp off. I was around when he couldn’t get along with the Tulsa People owner and he started his own rag. I competed with his sales staff. Conan did a fine job managing that staff. We didn’t give it much chance though, because it was among the worst that was offered. But he was a better businessman than a writer/publisher and the others passed on. He was the first to take hard alcohol ads, the first to take casino gambling ads and the only one to take sexually oriented ads relating to phone sex, group sex and featuring pics of strippers. All while its columns railed against immoral liberals and abortion. A real innovator he was. Now he has that market but he wants respect. Sorry, can’t do that. Also, I actually have my own children, coached them and others in sports, taught in Sunday school, participated in school activities and did my best to be a role model for those kids whose parents were less than adequate. You spent your life becoming a single 40yr old dilettante. Don’t lecture me about what’s appropriate for kids and what they should be exposed to. Just don’t. But then I've never been to Europe so you're probably more enlightened and less puritanical than I... If I were to listen to you, its a classy rag that's enjoyed by cosmopolites and rabble alike. Its 15,000 copies (what does he say 30?) are available everywhere, passed around many times, and not as bad as the weeklies in LA. Cool. Also, I hear you can find pretty good whores and swingers clubs among its literary excellence. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: TheArtist on January 06, 2008, 11:04:39 am "You are what you read?" Well I must read a loooot more than you. If you think because someone picks up a UT and reads it,checks out whats going on around town in the music/entertainment scene, and perhaps reads some of the articles in it,,, they are then defined by that? Well you must not read very much to think such a small amount of reading would have so much "definition".
Every single day I read Science Daily http://www.sciencedaily.com/ The best resource for whats happening in the world of science. Read the BBC News every morning. http://news.bbc.co.uk/ Love getting the broad perspective and amount of news they have on world events. Read the TW online every morning as well to get my local fix. Have had a subscription to Readers Digest most of my life. I have a literal LIBRARY of art books. By my bedside is of course are my Bibles King James and NIV version. And one of the top 10 books I have ever read "Crossing the Threshold of Hope" by John Paul II. Highly reccomend it. Best book I read last year... Galileos Daughter by Dava Sorbel, wonderful wonderful book. Is based on the actual correspondance Galileos daughter kept. You WILL cry at the end of the book. Am currently reading "The Reformation, a history" not sure I am buying the slant it is taking but will go ahead and finish it. Then the next 2 books in my pile are,The Gormenghast Novels. Saw the British television series so had to read the books. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/gormenghast/film/synopsis.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/gormenghast/ One of many treats to be found when broadening ones horizons across the pond. Next book after that is "Enders Game". a classic sci-fi novel I have yet to read. There is much, much, more that I read and watch. I try to purposefully challenge myself, reach out and read something I wouldn't normally consider. There is so much out there to be discovered. To be defined by something so minor as UT is rather nitpicky. I feel your angry and want to lash out and be hurtful. If you dont like it, fine, dont limit and judge others on such a small point. Every city has a rag just like UT. They are what they are, they are not trying to be what they are not, and thus YOUR insistant definition of what it SHOULD be is immaterial and silly. SO THERE! Take that! lol [:P] Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: RecycleMichael on January 06, 2008, 11:16:55 am People who read books think they are so smart.
I only read newspapers, magazines, webpages and fortune cookies. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: sgrizzle on January 06, 2008, 09:17:24 pm I read the internet.
PM me if you want to know how it ends. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: we vs us on January 06, 2008, 09:32:28 pm quote: If you PM sgrizzle, turn to page 53. If you blockquote Waterboy and continue arguing, turn to page 74 If you walk outside and enjoy the freakish 70 degree January weather, turn to page 842 Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: waterboy on January 06, 2008, 10:11:52 pm You're insufferable! And yet it must be so cool to be you. After reading your responses to my posts I would guess your problem is not reading, its comprehending! You stretch my posts out so as to be silly and use anecdotes to make your points but dismiss mine as simplistic. By studiously avoiding the more cogent points and seizing on making me out to be a prudish nit, you waste both our efforts.
Geez. What is it that makes people who are successful in one venue think they are or could be experts in all areas? God, protect us all from these modern age Renaissance men. I would never question your experience or taste in matters of art even though I have some knowledge and appreciation of things creative. Never having been paid to create I would feel out of my league. But you don't mind questioning my moral viewpoints, my reading skills, my ability to see billboards, EVEN my parenting skills even though you have devoted your career to the finer arts. To be defined by something so minor as UT is rather nitpicky. I feel your angry and want to lash out and be hurtful. If you dont like it, fine, dont limit and judge others on such a small point. Every city has a rag just like UT. They are what they are, they are not trying to be what they are not, and thus YOUR insistant definition of what it SHOULD be is immaterial and silly. And such a namecaller. The AA approach. All I can do is be "nitpicky", "angry", "hurtful", "judgemental", "immaterial" and "silly". That Readers Digest Word Power is really paying off for you huh? [:D]But why? You probably took some Psych too, so what is my motivation? I have no axe to grind, no bad blood with the publisher and no competing interest. Just don't like it. This started with an effort to list their Hot 100, as though any rag that has so little integrity in its Urby awards would have any business doing so. Then they smartly leave out the richest, most influential publishers in town. Gee, I wonder if there are "cold" advertisers who made the list, and "hot" non advertisers who didn't. Bet on it. Like their other efforts at lists this one attempts to show how hip, connected, clever and urban they are. Its a list of friends, potential friends, advertisers, musicians and artists, well knowns and politicos. And a few humanitarians for good measure. Ooooh. Ain't we cool? Some people feel they are "edgy". UT is trashy. OK Gazette is tons better. City Pages in the twin cities is a role model. Hell, even the Spot is better. You like it, I don't. So what. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: PonderInc on January 07, 2008, 04:17:55 pm I always grab an Urban Tulsa when I'm eating lunch. Guess this makes me an eater-reader. (I'll read the box of Cheerios at breakfast, if nothing else is available.) I actually like the paper, even when I don't agree with some of the stances of the columnists. I also appreciate that they highlight issues that slip through the cracks of the TW. It's also an easy way to stay current on where to find live music and concerts. I love being able to see at a glance every act that's coming to Cains or the Brady, or even the Ford Center in OKC. And the Advice Goddess (or whatever her name is) never fails to make me chuckle. So, I guess it's sort of like this forum. I skim through the crappola, and read the items that are of interest to me.
Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: TheArtist on January 07, 2008, 07:52:57 pm quote: Speaking of comprehending... I don't recall ever dimsissing your points as simplistic. Nor have I ever professed to be an expert in anything, let alone "all areas" during this conversation. So I don't understand where you are getting any of that from what I have said. And what could possibly be wrong with questioning someones moral viewpoint or anything for that matter? Its wrong to question and challenge? "Studiously avoiding the more cogent points?" Trust me I was not trying to studiously avoid anything. Is this a point you were talking about?... Their lack of integrity enrages me. Featuring cerebral essays and moralist columnists in the front pages and immorality from thereon kills their credibility. Its a bacchanalian youth publication." and... "Once again, my critique is that they don't stay true to what their segment is." I thought most of my posts answered just that. If I or people I know pick up a UT and read it, I would say part of their segment would be people who both enjoy reading cerebral essays and moralist columns AND like finding out what band is playing where, what restaurants or new club is open, News of the Weird lol, etc. You said..."I don’t care that they make their living from the entertainment segment of the market. And as far as readership, well, you are what you read and if you think that its worthy of your coffee table, then fine by me but don’t try to convince me it has any merit other than music, movies, bars and restaurants. My irritation is that they don’t stay in that segment. They try to cover political issues, and topics outside of that segment." I DO enjoy reading the articles in it. I DO enjoy reading a huge variety of things from one end of the spectrum to the next, as I have tried to show you. I find all sorts of things interesting. On the one hand you say "dont try to convince me it has any merit other than music, movies, bars and restaurants." What gives you the right to make an assertion like that and not allow others to make a different assertion? "My irritation is that they don’t stay in that segment. They try to cover political issues, and topics outside of that segment" We who read that are supposed to just roll over and go along with it? You have the right to try and convince us of your point but we dont have the right to convince you of ours? When you condemn the UT so harshly and say things like, "You are what you read." How can we not make the connection that you are insulting the readers? For instance, me, my family and friends. I feel like I have been insulted and called names. You say that this is a trashy publication and I give examples of people who would read it to try and show that it doesn't make you a bad person unable to raise kids etc. if you do read it. You say..."You are what you read" and you point out that...UT "which I do occasionally read" is trashy, a clubby little party weekly, something you would not want around your home, etc. etc. How do you think I would take that? "That's ridiculous. I got through your first paragraph and realized you either know someone there, do work for them or are related. You misread my posts then made fantasy comparisons. I never said it was akin to Penthouse." I do not know anyone there, that I know of lol. Nor have I knowingly done any work for anyone who works there. Nor am I related to anyone who works there. "Fantasy comparison?" I dont know how else to take this..."No matter how good the connection with your boys, or how disciplined the environment, it is a poor example to leave trashy publications laying around. With that logic, leave Penthouse on the coffee table." Sounds like you are saying UT is a trashy publicaton, Penthouse is a trashy publication, thus Penthouse and UT are "akin". I don't know how else it could be read? I try to explain how I and others see the UT and you insist that perspective is wrong,,, well thats fine, we can disagree. Your saying its what you believe it to be doesn't make it so. But when you also strongly imply that whoever has one of these on their coffee table or reads one is wrong to do so, is trashy, etc. Well your going to have to expect a little push back. I said..."To be defined by something so minor as UT is rather nitpicky. I feel your angry and want to lash out and be hurtful. If you dont like it, fine, dont limit and judge others on such a small point. Every city has a rag just like UT. They are what they are, they are not trying to be what they are not, and thus YOUR insistant definition of what it SHOULD be is immaterial and silly. Then you said.... And such a namecaller. The AA approach. All I can do is be "nitpicky", "angry", "hurtful", "judgemental", "immaterial" and "silly". I do not see how that was "namecalling". I did not ever call you by any of those names. Saying you were "being" nitpicky is not the same as YOU ARE nitpicky. For you were being that way, you chose to look at one small thing, the UT, I read and suggest that that alone defined me. I tried to show that I read a lot of different things so how can that one small thing define me? To say that your feeling that someone is angry and being hurtful is saying how I felt by your language and behavior. It wasnt calling you a name. Judgmental? Sure, who isnt? Immaterial and silly. I did not say YOU were immaterial and silly. I said "your insistant definition of what it should be" is. So unless you are the "definition of what it should be"... your not what I was saying was immaterial and silly. Speaking of "comprehending". Should I go back and list the names you DID call me? "insufferable" "dilettante"...[:P] Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: waterboy on January 07, 2008, 08:50:23 pm We? No one else is responding to this loser topic anymore. I'm certainly bored with it. Relax. Go call one of those massage numbers in the back of UT.
Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: TheArtist on January 07, 2008, 09:27:11 pm quote: I already know a good massage therapist and chiropractor. But thanks for your "expert opinion". You seem to be far more familiar and fixated with those few ads in the back of UT than most. Before this conversation I had never even paid attention to them and frankly I am not going to start. But perhaps you have a favorite you would like to recommend to others? Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: waterboy on January 08, 2008, 07:37:05 am quote: I offered no opinion. Work on that reading comprehension. However, I will offer this advice if you need a recommendation on services from those pages. Check with the police. They have in the past used those ads to arrest businesses involved with illegal activities. So sensitive! Are all artists that way? Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: TheArtist on January 08, 2008, 10:38:41 pm My comment on your "opinion" was a direct reflection on your earlier comment of my "expert opinion". Your absolutely right, you offered no "opinion" and I hadn't offered any "expert opinion". Apparently you missed that comparison. And I even put it in quotes to alert you. So "Work on that comprehension." And yes us artists are sensitive lol. Its our job. [8D]
Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: waterboy on January 09, 2008, 07:10:55 am quote: I saw your attempt at comparison. It just didn't make much sense. This has been fun but has run its course. I mean you no enmity. Your strengths are in art and development not wordplay (but that's just my opinion.) You have that vision thing. You were one of the two brightest people in the room during the county commissioner meeting when you correctly tried to steer them towards a river corridor zoning effort. I have to admit I was playing a little bit here, though I thought you might benefit from my experience and insights gleaned from 15years in that industry. That was my inflated ego. I actually talked to the guys running the presses for many of the weeklies/monthlies that sprung up in the eighties to determine their real press runs. The honest ones faded away. Have you ever seen the City Pages from Minneapolis? We need to continue pressure on the most influential players in Tulsa, like UT, to do a better job and stop taking us all for granted. Title: TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list Post by: TheArtist on January 09, 2008, 08:50:39 am Oh come on, your giving up too quickly. We could easily keep ranting at each other for at least a few more weeks. [:P] I am sure everyone has been hanging on our every word with baited breath. Either that or we have both been permanently blocked by everyone on this forum at this point. lol
And no I havent seen the City Pages from Minneapolis. Will have to check it out. |