I believe this speaks for itself:
http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=139673
Eh, people were saying the same thing about Broken Arrow 20 years ago. Nothing new to see here.
Owasso has nothing unique, has worse traffic flow than 71st and gets everything worth having after Tulsa has it.
The only think Tulsa dropped the ball on was annexing more of north tulsa and getting this built south of owasso in the tulsa city limits.
Good for Owasso! They are becoming blander and blander every day. Welcome to anyplace USA.
We figured it out a long time ago, they are just now catching up.
Welcome to the over-saturation of retail in Tulsa County.
quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy976
I believe this speaks for itself:
http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=139673
I guess this means you live there....
Oh man, JC Penney AND Olive Garden! Sure wish Tulsa could figure out that magic retail touch! [:P]
quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy976
I believe this speaks for itself:
http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=139673
The new Owasso = 71st Street part II, but not as pretty, and with worse traffic planning. We joke about Tulsa having no architectural or landscape standards - but try Owasso on for size. Yikes.
And I am allowed to make fun of Owasso because i was raised there.
First, I believe Owasso is doing well for itself. However, it is following the Scottsdale path and just getting strip malls and chains in between cooker cutter subdivisions and new stop lights. Anytown USA is an apt description.
The reason they are getting retail is because they are getting population. That's what Tulsa needs to figure out. So long as it is easy to develop housing in Tulsa those areas will get new retail also (South Tulsa). If denser development catches on in Midtown areas more retail will rise to fill the demand.
Not a hard equation. The cheap living in Owasso is certainly luring some away from Tulsa. Which is taking the new retail with them. Which is too bad if you ask me as there is nothing to see or do in Owasso that I couldn't do in 300 other cities in America. Just not want I want and in the long run I think others will realize that as well.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
First, I believe Owasso is doing well for itself. However, it is following the Scottsdale path and just getting strip malls and chains in between cooker cutter subdivisions and new stop lights. Anytown USA is an apt description.
The reason they are getting retail is because they are getting population. That's what Tulsa needs to figure out. So long as it is easy to develop housing in Tulsa those areas will get new retail also (South Tulsa). If denser development catches on in Midtown areas more retail will rise to fill the demand.
Not a hard equation. The cheap living in Owasso is certainly luring some away from Tulsa. Which is taking the new retail with them. Which is too bad if you ask me as there is nothing to see or do in Owasso that I couldn't do in 300 other cities in America. Just not want I want and in the long run I think others will realize that as well.
cf, what part of Scottsdale are you refering to?
When the thread mentioned something that Owasso has figured out, I thought it was going to be about fully-shielded, efficient lighting. The last time I was up there at night, I thought: "Wow, even Owasso has good light fixtures/shielded lighting." Since most of Owasso is surface parking, you really notice if the parking lots have good lights. And a lot of them do! As far as urban design goes, it might be the one thing the Owasso developers have done right!
dbacks fan, I've only been there one time... but ironically I believe it was the area near the stadium. My sister in law lived there. It seemed to be condo, strip mall, sub division, strip mall, apartment complex - repeat. I was only in town 2 days for a baby shower, but that is my impression of most of Phoenix (or really, most "new" cities that grew so quickly).
Again, it was very nice, clean and safe. It had neat restaurants and shops. Just the overall feel reminded me of any other "new" area I had been to.
I presume there is an "old town" or other cool area, sorry to generalize. I could as easily of used suburban Chicago, Des Moines, or most of newer suburbs of Los Angeles - or Owasso. Probably the same thing everyone said about Midtown Tulsa in the 1930's.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
dbacks fan, I've only been there one time... but ironically I believe it was the area near the stadium. My sister in law lived there. It seemed to be condo, strip mall, sub division, strip mall, apartment complex - repeat. I was only in town 2 days for a baby shower, but that is my impression of most of Phoenix (or really, most "new" cities that grew so quickly).
Again, it was very nice, clean and safe. It had neat restaurants and shops. Just the overall feel reminded me of any other "new" area I had been to.
I presume there is an "old town" or other cool area, sorry to generalize. I could as easily of used suburban Chicago, Des Moines, or most of newer suburbs of Los Angeles - or Owasso. Probably the same thing everyone said about Midtown Tulsa in the 1930's.
By stadium I think you are refering to ASU. Yes that is the older part of Scottsdale and yeah it's strip mall, condo subdivision. It is a nice area for an older part of Scottsdale. North Scottsdale, about 6 miles from where I live in north Phoenix is turning into it's own version of Rodeo Drive. Here are the links to two areas of mixed shopping, residential and entertainment that is being built. Don't think I will be buying a condo there any time soon.
http://www.onescottsdaleproject.com/ (//%22http://%22)
http://www.citynorthaz.com/ (//%22http://%22)
If you ever get a chance to come back to the Valley, let me know, I can recommend some place to go.
Back on topic, it looks as if they have gotten part of it right but it sounds like the growth has been faster than the infrastructure could grow. I haven't been to Tulsa in about 3 years, but a friend of mine was just out for a 25 year class reunion for Owasso HS. He told me how much it had grown and that it now has traffic problems that it did not used to. It's true in a way, "If you build it, they will come". I can remember back in the 80's when the people in Owasso, and more so Collinsville wanted more shopping there so they would not have to drive all the way to Woodland Hills.
Dback- I made my first visit to the Phoenix area this week last year and I liked it pretty well. Looks like there's lots of affluence in the area.
What is the main attraction for new people moving there? Principal industries which are hiring, etc?
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy976
I believe this speaks for itself:
http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=139673
I guess this means you live there....
Never lived there, and besides, I was just trying to start a thread on what we can do to improve the city... not that Owasso is actually doing well. I simply used the title to get people here.
quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy976
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy976
I believe this speaks for itself:
http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=139673
I guess this means you live there....
Never lived there, and besides, I was just trying to start a thread on what we can do to improve the city... not that Owasso is actually doing well. I simply used the title to get people here.
It worked, didn't it?
quote:
"We're talking about having the 169 corridor look like you are driving into Dallas, Texas. Good office buildings with good jobs. Major companies from around the United States and the world locating right here in Owasso," said city manager, Rodney Ray.
THey better start widening 169 right now while they can get decent right of ways. If it is supposed to look like 75 going into Dallas, that place is awful and ugly.
quote:
Originally posted by joiei
quote:
"We're talking about having the 169 corridor look like you are driving into Dallas, Texas. Good office buildings with good jobs. Major companies from around the United States and the world locating right here in Owasso," said city manager, Rodney Ray.
THey better start widening 169 right now while they can get decent right of ways. If it is supposed to look like 75 going into Dallas, that place is awful and ugly.
I ventured to the north tulsa landfill last week (aka Mt. Diaper) and mistakingly came back on 169 during 5 o'clock traffic. I was surprised by how slowly the highway flowed, despite all the upgrades.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by joiei
quote:
"We're talking about having the 169 corridor look like you are driving into Dallas, Texas. Good office buildings with good jobs. Major companies from around the United States and the world locating right here in Owasso," said city manager, Rodney Ray.
THey better start widening 169 right now while they can get decent right of ways. If it is supposed to look like 75 going into Dallas, that place is awful and ugly.
I ventured to the north tulsa landfill last week (aka Mt. Diaper) and mistakingly came back on 169 during 5 o'clock traffic. I was surprised by how slowly the highway flowed, despite all the upgrades.
I don't see this as a problem. It's pretty well demonstrated that sprawl and roads are a chicken-and-egg problem. Every time you widen the roads, you spark growth that congests them again. I say, leave the roads reasonably wide and safe, but not make them any bigger, and if folks choose to live that far from the urban center, then traffic congestion is simply a chosen, added cost offset to cheaper housing and services.
I guess I'm the only person that thinks Owasso has character. It feels like a small country town yet minutes from a major city. I think the white picket fence gives it character.
All the growth in Owasso has turned the town into a traffic nightmare. The small town feeling has been replaced with new concrete slabs EVERYWHERE. I remember 96 St/Hwy 169, being the place to be on icy/snow days. You didnt need any $$, jus a sled & someone brave enough to drive up there. The character of this city left when Wally World "super-sized"
The thing that Owasso hasn't figured out--or many in Tulsa, either--is that a city without a unique character is not a place that people will travel to see. Owasso has become "Everywhere USA." And, most of Tulsa's new growth is exactly the same as Owasso's. (One of the reasons that Owasso is thriving is that people who live in nearby small towns actually get excited about coming in to shop at Walmart or eat at Red Robin. Is this what Tulsa aspires to be?)
I don't need to travel to see a Walmart or a Taco Bueno or a Fudruckers or a Panera Bread. I could find these things in Springfield, MO, or Topeka, KS, or (insert any city name here). People travel to see things that they can't find in their own hometowns.
Tulsa has these unique things...but we overlook them, or take no pride in them. People know that San Antonio has the Alamo and the Riverwalk. They know that Austin has 6th Street. They know that St. Louis has the arch and Union Station and The Hill. They know that Chicago has Navy Pier. They know that Santa Fe has Old Town and the La Fonda Hotel. They know that Kansas City has fountains and sculptures everywhere you go.
What is it that makes Tulsa special and unique? Everyone should know that Tulsa ranks as one of the top cities IN THE WORLD for art deco architecture. People should know what that means...b/c we should make a point of showing it off to everyone who comes to Tulsa. At a minimum, we should market the "deco district" (like Vancouver markets the "gaslight district") and strive to fill our art deco buildings with places to shop and eat and drink and listen to live music.
Part of the problem is that Tulsans are so blase or negative about downtown. Our own citizens don't realize what an amazing thing we have. They don't see the architecture b/c they are too busy hyperventilating after seeing--gasp!--a homeless person. Meanwhile, the people who purportedly (or should) care about downtown (the chamber and dtu) stand by, unconcerned, while historic buildings (the very thing that makes us unique!) are leveled for even more surface parking.
Another problem is that native Tulsans act embarrassed to be from Tulsa. Most younger natives have an excuse for living here: "Well, I USED to live in (insert cool city here) , but I had to move home because of (insert noble reason here)."
I don't know if Tulsa can succeed until Tulsans themselves GET IT. And for all of those people who want Tulsa to be more like Dallas (see south Tulsa for example), I can only say: this line of thinking is a total dead end for our city. There is no logic in becoming another generic, sprawling, chain store Nowhere. The only solution will come when we understand our unique identity...and work to enhance it...and then learn to shout it from the rooftops with bursting civic pride.
Until then, we will continue to be the punchline of TV jokes. Or worse, just another place to jump off the interstate and buy gas and a burger...before getting back on the interstate...to drive to your DESTINATION.
Nice Rant, but I agree with you.
Ponder- great post. I always like your stuff, wish you had more time to post. I got stuck on your comment about downtown, so I'm running with it. [;)]
I worked downtown about 15-16 years ago for a couple of years. I worked in a capacity which kept me in constant touch with many of the small business owners, some of the local property management companies, and yes, DTU. At the time, I found myself incredibly underwhelmed by DTU. Why anyone has tolerated and continuted to support their relative indifference to downtown, and poor token attempts at promoting downtown is way beyond me. The fellow I worked for told me it was as classic an example of an ivory tower as I would ever see. Jim Norton must work in a freaking vacuum. He seemed out of touch then, and I've not seen anything since which would convince me otherwise.
DTU is ripe for an overhaul or just flat disbanding it altogether and starting over with a different entity with some fresh blood, motivation, and ideas.
One problem which has plagued a vibrant night-life in downtown has been DB (use your imagination) club owners and managers like the Kitchell clan and others who don't seem to care who comes to their clubs, so long as they plan on blowing $40. I think well-publicized news stories of shootings, bouncer goons beating up patrons (and in one instance apparently killing one) and "gang-related" problems have kept a lot of respectible people who otherwise would venture there from coming down at night. There are too many other entertainment districts around town where they don't tollerate youngsters searching for mischief.
Vibrant nightlife can be an attraction for people moving closer to the area or creating a larger demand for housing within the district itself.
There are some investors and developers who are picking up the ball and running with it on their own and hopefully, that's going to spur a rennaisance for downtown. Even though I wasn't overly enthusiastic about Wal-Mart being a basis for East End development, that's would have been a start and they have the kind of money it takes to make things happen and get others to follow suit.
I agree with you ponder but are bedroom communites supposed to be unique? The city should have character but not necessarily the suburbs.
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc
The thing that Owasso hasn't figured out--or many in Tulsa, either--is that a city without a unique character is not a place that people will travel to see. Owasso has become "Everywhere USA." And, most of Tulsa's new growth is exactly the same as Owasso's. (One of the reasons that Owasso is thriving is that people who live in nearby small towns actually get excited about coming in to shop at Walmart or eat at Red Robin. Is this what Tulsa aspires to be?)
I don't need to travel to see a Walmart or a Taco Bueno or a Fudruckers or a Panera Bread. I could find these things in Springfield, MO, or Topeka, KS, or (insert any city name here). People travel to see things that they can't find in their own hometowns.
Tulsa has these unique things...but we overlook them, or take no pride in them. People know that San Antonio has the Alamo and the Riverwalk. They know that Austin has 6th Street. They know that St. Louis has the arch and Union Station and The Hill. They know that Chicago has Navy Pier. They know that Santa Fe has Old Town and the La Fonda Hotel. They know that Kansas City has fountains and sculptures everywhere you go.
What is it that makes Tulsa special and unique? Everyone should know that Tulsa ranks as one of the top cities IN THE WORLD for art deco architecture. People should know what that means...b/c we should make a point of showing it off to everyone who comes to Tulsa. At a minimum, we should market the "deco district" (like Vancouver markets the "gaslight district") and strive to fill our art deco buildings with places to shop and eat and drink and listen to live music.
Part of the problem is that Tulsans are so blase or negative about downtown. Our own citizens don't realize what an amazing thing we have. They don't see the architecture b/c they are too busy hyperventilating after seeing--gasp!--a homeless person. Meanwhile, the people who purportedly (or should) care about downtown (the chamber and dtu) stand by, unconcerned, while historic buildings (the very thing that makes us unique!) are leveled for even more surface parking.
Another problem is that native Tulsans act embarrassed to be from Tulsa. Most younger natives have an excuse for living here: "Well, I USED to live in (insert cool city here) , but I had to move home because of (insert noble reason here)."
I don't know if Tulsa can succeed until Tulsans themselves GET IT. And for all of those people who want Tulsa to be more like Dallas (see south Tulsa for example), I can only say: this line of thinking is a total dead end for our city. There is no logic in becoming another generic, sprawling, chain store Nowhere. The only solution will come when we understand our unique identity...and work to enhance it...and then learn to shout it from the rooftops with bursting civic pride.
Until then, we will continue to be the punchline of TV jokes. Or worse, just another place to jump off the interstate and buy gas and a burger...before getting back on the interstate...to drive to your DESTINATION.
I think you are mixing business travelers with leisure travelers....I hear people say things like "well I am here visiting family, and to see the musuems, architecture, and beautiful fall weather" every day. Business travelers are the ones who make the bs jokes, comments, bc our city isnt "as cool, or hip" as their big booming town (sarcasm). People dont come through the Tulsa area just for the shopping, nor should they. They come for the different musuems, the aqaurium. I hear people tell me very often they are moving here because its so peaceful, people are friendly and the cost of living and quality of life is better here then where they are currently living.
Everyone thinks we need all these new unique stores for people to come to tulsa, when in reality its not the truth, we need to tap into what we currently have and build on that.
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc
The thing that Owasso hasn't figured out--or many in Tulsa, either--is that a city without a unique character is not a place that people will travel to see. Owasso has become "Everywhere USA." And, most of Tulsa's new growth is exactly the same as Owasso's. (One of the reasons that Owasso is thriving is that people who live in nearby small towns actually get excited about coming in to shop at Walmart or eat at Red Robin. Is this what Tulsa aspires to be?)
I don't need to travel to see a Walmart or a Taco Bueno or a Fudruckers or a Panera Bread. I could find these things in Springfield, MO, or Topeka, KS, or (insert any city name here). People travel to see things that they can't find in their own hometowns.
Tulsa has these unique things...but we overlook them, or take no pride in them. People know that San Antonio has the Alamo and the Riverwalk. They know that Austin has 6th Street. They know that St. Louis has the arch and Union Station and The Hill. They know that Chicago has Navy Pier. They know that Santa Fe has Old Town and the La Fonda Hotel. They know that Kansas City has fountains and sculptures everywhere you go.
What is it that makes Tulsa special and unique? Everyone should know that Tulsa ranks as one of the top cities IN THE WORLD for art deco architecture. People should know what that means...b/c we should make a point of showing it off to everyone who comes to Tulsa. At a minimum, we should market the "deco district" (like Vancouver markets the "gaslight district") and strive to fill our art deco buildings with places to shop and eat and drink and listen to live music.
Part of the problem is that Tulsans are so blase or negative about downtown. Our own citizens don't realize what an amazing thing we have. They don't see the architecture b/c they are too busy hyperventilating after seeing--gasp!--a homeless person. Meanwhile, the people who purportedly (or should) care about downtown (the chamber and dtu) stand by, unconcerned, while historic buildings (the very thing that makes us unique!) are leveled for even more surface parking.
Another problem is that native Tulsans act embarrassed to be from Tulsa. Most younger natives have an excuse for living here: "Well, I USED to live in (insert cool city here) , but I had to move home because of (insert noble reason here)."
I don't know if Tulsa can succeed until Tulsans themselves GET IT. And for all of those people who want Tulsa to be more like Dallas (see south Tulsa for example), I can only say: this line of thinking is a total dead end for our city. There is no logic in becoming another generic, sprawling, chain store Nowhere. The only solution will come when we understand our unique identity...and work to enhance it...and then learn to shout it from the rooftops with bursting civic pride.
Until then, we will continue to be the punchline of TV jokes. Or worse, just another place to jump off the interstate and buy gas and a burger...before getting back on the interstate...to drive to your DESTINATION.
I think you are mixing business travelers with leisure travelers....I hear people say things like "well I am here visiting family, and to see the musuems, architecture, and beautiful fall weather" every day. Business travelers are the ones who make the bs jokes, comments, bc our city isnt "as cool, or hip" as their big booming town (sarcasm). People dont come through the Tulsa area just for the shopping, nor should they. They come for the different musuems, the aqaurium. I hear people tell me very often they are moving here because its so peaceful, people are friendly and the cost of living and quality of life is better here then where they are currently living.
Everyone thinks we need all these new unique stores for people to come to tulsa, when in reality its not the truth, we need to tap into what we currently have and build on that.
spoken like a true rube.
Those business people telling "bs jokes" are the ones coming in town to work big money deals. If you don't make them feel welcome they will take their money and deals elsewhere.