http://newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty306.htm
quote:
Tina Griego, journalist for the Denver Rocky Mountain News wrote a column titled, "Mexican visitor's lament" -- 10/25/07.
She interviewed Mexican journalist Evangelina Hernandez while visiting Denver last week. Hernandez said,
"They (illegal aliens) pay rent, buy groceries, buy clothes...what happens to your country's economy if 20 million people go away?"
That's a good question – it deserves an answer. Over 80 percent of Americans demand secured borders and illegal migration stopped. But what would happen if all 20 million or more vacated America? The answers may surprise you!
*
In California, if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to Mexico, it would leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems, bankrupted hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner, safer and less congested. Everyone could understand one another as English became the dominate language again.
*
In Colorado, 500,000 illegal migrants, plus their 300,000 kids and grand-kids – would move back "home," mostly to Mexico. That would save Coloradans an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 BIL) annually in taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social-services and incarceration costs. It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone.
*
Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs, and the terror that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens. Denver Officer Don Young and hundreds of Colorado victims would not have suffered death, accidents, rapes and other crimes by illegals.
*
Denver Public Schools would not suffer a 67 percent drop out/flunk out rate via thousands of illegal alien students speaking 41 different languages. At least 200,000 vehicles would vanish from our gridlocked cities in Colorado. Denver's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.
*
In Florida, 1.5 million illegals would return the Sunshine State back to America, the rule of law and English.
*
In Chicago, Illinois, 2.1 million illegals would free up hospitals, schools, prisons and highways for a safer, cleaner and more crime-free experience.
If 20 million illegal aliens returned "home" --
If 20 million illegal aliens returned "home," the U.S. economy would return to the rule of law. Employers would hire legal American citizens at a living wage. Everyone would pay their fair share of taxes because they wouldn't be working off the books. That would result in an additional $401 billion in IRS income taxes collected annually, and an equal amount for local state and city coffers.
No more push '1' for Spanish or '2' for English. No more confusion in American schools that now must content with over 100 languages that degrade the educational system for American kids. Our overcrowded schools would lose more than two million illegal alien kids at a cost of billions in ESL and free breakfasts and lunches.
We would lose 500,000 illegal criminal alien inmates at a cost of more than $1.6 billion annually. That includes 15,000 MS-13 gang members who distribute $130 billion in drugs annually would vacate our country. In cities like L.A., 20,000 members of the "18th Street Gang" would vanish from our nation. No more Mexican forgery gangs for ID theft from Americans! No more foreign rapists and child molesters!
Losing more than 20 million people would clear up our crowded highways and gridlock. Cleaner air and less drinking and driving American deaths by illegal aliens!
Drain on America's economy; taxpayers harmed, employers get rich
Over $80 billion annually wouldn't return to their home countries by cash transfers. Illegal migrants earned half that money untaxed, which further drains America's economy – which currently suffers an $8.7 trillion debt.
At least 400,000 anchor babies would not be born in our country, costing us $109 billion per year per cycle. At least 86 hospitals in California, Georgia and Florida would still be operating instead of being bankrupted out of existence because illegals pay nothing via the EMTOLA Act. Americans wouldn't suffer thousands of TB and hepatitis cases rampant in our country—brought in by illegals unscreened at our borders.
Our cities would see 20 million less people driving, polluting and grid locking our cities. It would also put the "progressives" on the horns of a dilemma; illegal aliens and their families cause 11 percent of our greenhouse gases.
"You know what would happen? A great big, giant, sucking sound. You know what that sound is??? It's 20 million Mexicans and their illegal neighbors from the south of them migratin' back home where they belong! See, I tried to tell you NAFTA would screw us sendin' all those jobs south o' the border. I was wrong. They pay wages my dog wouldn't work for, hell all the workers came here."
"I'm Ross Perot and I approved this message."
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
"You know what would happen? A great big, giant, sucking sound. You know what that sound is??? It's 20 million Mexicans and their illegal neighbors from the south of them migratin' back home where they belong! See, I tried to tell you NAFTA would screw us sendin' all those jobs south o' the border. I was wrong. They pay wages my dog wouldn't work for, hell all the workers came here."
"I'm Ross Perot and I approved this message."
We are seeing a bit of a micro-experiment of what would happen right here in Oklahoma. I work on several projects and have to coordinate earth-work and landscape contractors to some extent.
As most of you know many of Oklahoma's illegals have flead the state in anticipation of strict state restrictions, and as a response to the new laws.
At first my contractors were haveing a hard time finding labor. Many of them raised thier rates and I worried about the quality and timeleness of the service they could provide because I have allways been impressed by the work ethic of our Hispanic work force.
Well I've been proven wrong. For the most part the work is as good or better, and communication is certanly better. I find that I am not deciminating information through several people and loosing complex concepts in translation. I can get the cell phone # of the guy doing the work and call him with changes or corrections. It's actually quite nice. At first we got a little behind, but now most of the projects are ahead of schedule.
Much of the force is still Hispanic, but they are legal and most of them speak very good English. I am also seeing a big increase in college kids and female workers.
Is anyone else experiencing this?
What if james rage quit posting?
Then we would have less unintentional comedy (or spittle-flecked wingnut parodies).
Carry on. [}:)]
If 20 million illegals leave the U.S. then that means that there will be 20 million less uninsured drivers on the roads. And I won't be paying for their medical care anymore. cUbye...
I'll tell you what would happen.
I would throw a party in downtown that would make Mayfest, Oktoberfest, DFest, and the Centennial all combined look like a 5 year olds birthday party at McDonald's.
quote:
Originally posted by spoonbill
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
"You know what would happen? A great big, giant, sucking sound. You know what that sound is??? It's 20 million Mexicans and their illegal neighbors from the south of them migratin' back home where they belong! See, I tried to tell you NAFTA would screw us sendin' all those jobs south o' the border. I was wrong. They pay wages my dog wouldn't work for, hell all the workers came here."
"I'm Ross Perot and I approved this message."
We are seeing a bit of a micro-experiment of what would happen right here in Oklahoma. I work on several projects and have to coordinate earth-work and landscape contractors to some extent.
As most of you know many of Oklahoma's illegals have flead the state in anticipation of strict state restrictions, and as a response to the new laws.
At first my contractors were haveing a hard time finding labor. Many of them raised thier rates and I worried about the quality and timeleness of the service they could provide because I have allways been impressed by the work ethic of our Hispanic work force.
Well I've been proven wrong. For the most part the work is as good or better, and communication is certanly better. I find that I am not deciminating information through several people and loosing complex concepts in translation. I can get the cell phone # of the guy doing the work and call him with changes or corrections. It's actually quite nice. At first we got a little behind, but now most of the projects are ahead of schedule.
Much of the force is still Hispanic, but they are legal and most of them speak very good English. I am also seeing a big increase in college kids and female workers.
Is anyone else experiencing this?
This is what I have been trying to explain but some people just want to ignore the facts....It's going to take some time but the trades will become a way to make money and raise a family like it use to be.....
Too many people simplify this problem...
If 20,000,000 workers of ANY persuasion left the United States and those remaining were willing and tried to fill all those vacancies we would STILL come up ~10,000,000 people short. Some would argue that our unemployment rate is already too low at 4.7% (argument is less than 5% can slow economic growth because wage pressures hinder expansion).
Nonetheless, we currently have ~7,000,000 in this country without a job that are looking for one. Pretending every one of them takes an open job left my a Mexican, no one else quits, gets fired, or is in the midst of changing a job... then we STILL are short 13,000,000 workers. Pretending that only half of the 20mil are working (some say there are more than 20mil and everyone thinks more than 50% are working) we are still short more workers than the states of Oklahoma and New Mexico can provide combined.
It is not a matter of American's not willing to take the job or companies not paying enough... there are simply more jobs that workers at 4.7% unemployment and 20,000,000+ illegals.
Same logic applies to complaints about CAFTA, NAFTA or trade in general. Who do we have to fill the position in the plastic factory or that wants to be a slagger or grinder in a foundry for $10 an hour? 4.7% unemployment, a workforce of 153.5 million.
Do the math. Its not as simple as kicking out everyone who "took 'er jobs!" And with manufacturing job pressure growing thanks to a weak dollar the lack of labor will only get more intense. Good thing Americans are incredibly efficient - lets hope wage pressure continues to grow.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Too many people simplify this problem...
If 20,000,000 workers of ANY persuasion left the United States and those remaining were willing and tried to fill all those vacancies we would STILL come up ~10,000,000 people short. Some would argue that our unemployment rate is already too low at 4.7% (argument is less than 5% can slow economic growth because wage pressures hinder expansion).
Nonetheless, we currently have ~7,000,000 in this country without a job that are looking for one. Pretending every one of them takes an open job left my a Mexican, no one else quits, gets fired, or is in the midst of changing a job... then we STILL are short 13,000,000 workers. Pretending that only half of the 20mil are working (some say there are more than 20mil and everyone thinks more than 50% are working) we are still short more workers than the states of Oklahoma and New Mexico can provide combined.
It is not a matter of American's not willing to take the job or companies not paying enough... there are simply more jobs that workers at 4.7% unemployment and 20,000,000+ illegals.
Same logic applies to complaints about CAFTA, NAFTA or trade in general. Who do we have to fill the position in the plastic factory or that wants to be a slagger or grinder in a foundry for $10 an hour? 4.7% unemployment, a workforce of 153.5 million.
Do the math. Its not as simple as kicking out everyone who "took 'er jobs!" And with manufacturing job pressure growing thanks to a weak dollar the lack of labor will only get more intense. Good thing Americans are incredibly efficient - lets hope wage pressure continues to grow.
We could allways close Florida. Turn it into an amusment park or nursing home. . .Oh! wait. . .we allready did.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Too many people simplify this problem...
If 20,000,000 workers of ANY persuasion left the United States and those remaining were willing and tried to fill all those vacancies we would STILL come up ~10,000,000 people short. Some would argue that our unemployment rate is already too low at 4.7% (argument is less than 5% can slow economic growth because wage pressures hinder expansion).
Nonetheless, we currently have ~7,000,000 in this country without a job that are looking for one. Pretending every one of them takes an open job left my a Mexican, no one else quits, gets fired, or is in the midst of changing a job... then we STILL are short 13,000,000 workers. Pretending that only half of the 20mil are working (some say there are more than 20mil and everyone thinks more than 50% are working) we are still short more workers than the states of Oklahoma and New Mexico can provide combined.
It is not a matter of American's not willing to take the job or companies not paying enough... there are simply more jobs that workers at 4.7% unemployment and 20,000,000+ illegals.
Same logic applies to complaints about CAFTA, NAFTA or trade in general. Who do we have to fill the position in the plastic factory or that wants to be a slagger or grinder in a foundry for $10 an hour? 4.7% unemployment, a workforce of 153.5 million.
Do the math. Its not as simple as kicking out everyone who "took 'er jobs!" And with manufacturing job pressure growing thanks to a weak dollar the lack of labor will only get more intense. Good thing Americans are incredibly efficient - lets hope wage pressure continues to grow.
When these dire predictions materialize we simply expedite the process for legal immigration to fill those jobs clearing the backlog of immigrants patiently waiting to migrate legally.
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Too many people simplify this problem...
If 20,000,000 workers of ANY persuasion left the United States and those remaining were willing and tried to fill all those vacancies we would STILL come up ~10,000,000 people short. Some would argue that our unemployment rate is already too low at 4.7% (argument is less than 5% can slow economic growth because wage pressures hinder expansion).
The good news is that when Bill's Wife is president I am sure unemployment will go up to 10% so there will be all sorts of people to fill the empty jobs..
20 Million illegal's sent home = 1 million 1 bedroom apartments up for rent..
Originally posted by alanoftulsa.
quote:
20 Million illegal's sent home = 1 million 1 bedroom apartments up for rent..
Tell me did you think that up on your own or did you have help..?
When these dire predictions materialize we simply expedite the process for legal immigration to fill those jobs clearing the backlog of immigrants patiently waiting to migrate legally.
[/quote]
Genius, pure genius. (I am not being sarcastic.)
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
Originally posted by alanoftulsa.quote:
20 Million illegal's sent home = 1 million 1 bedroom apartments up for rent..
Tell me did you think that up on your own or did you have help..?
I asked an illegal on his way South...... [}:)]
All I know is that I had lunch at the Qdoba on Cherry street today and for the first time I can remember there was a white guy working the register and the hispanic woman who took my order/fixed my naked burrito could actually speak English.
quote:
Double A Said:
When these dire predictions materialize we simply expedite the process for legal immigration to fill those jobs clearing the backlog of immigrants patiently waiting to migrate legally.
First, they are not dire predictions, its just a cold fact. I'm not crying doom and gloom, just pointing out that we simply do not have the workforce to cover it if even 10mil workers left. We would need to see double our unemployment to even handle that.
and we can not wait for this to happen before we do something. Shutting down that much industry and agriculture and then trying to fix the problem would be a larger disaster than we currently have. We need to do something about it NOW - not wait until disaster strikes.
But I wholeheartedly agree with you that we need to fix the stupid immigration system to fill our demand for labor and placate the supply of immigrants LEGALLY. Under the current system legal applicants are getting screwed. If it was a choice of waiting 5 years and hoping to get in or just walking over I'd be here illegally too I'm afraid. But I am afraid most laborer who want to immigrate from Latin America have already come over - legally or otherwise.
Mostly because our system is retarded and probably going to get worse.
If 20 million illegals left, our nation would have a increase in wages and standard of living. it would save $22,000 for every illegal that is sent back. A big loss would be had in insured drives on the road saving many lives. many jobs would open up for U.S. legal residents. The teenagers would be able to find work, many teens today can't find jobs in restaurants anymore because the restaurants like to hire illegals instead of legal people. The loss of 20 million illegals would be a blessing to every legal resident. or so it seems to me. thanx.
Sending 12 or 20 million illegal immigrants back to Mexico ain't going to happen, so you can let go of that fantasy.
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by spoonbill
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
"You know what would happen? A great big, giant, sucking sound. You know what that sound is??? It's 20 million Mexicans and their illegal neighbors from the south of them migratin' back home where they belong! See, I tried to tell you NAFTA would screw us sendin' all those jobs south o' the border. I was wrong. They pay wages my dog wouldn't work for, hell all the workers came here."
"I'm Ross Perot and I approved this message."
We are seeing a bit of a micro-experiment of what would happen right here in Oklahoma. I work on several projects and have to coordinate earth-work and landscape contractors to some extent.
As most of you know many of Oklahoma's illegals have flead the state in anticipation of strict state restrictions, and as a response to the new laws.
At first my contractors were haveing a hard time finding labor. Many of them raised thier rates and I worried about the quality and timeleness of the service they could provide because I have allways been impressed by the work ethic of our Hispanic work force.
Well I've been proven wrong. For the most part the work is as good or better, and communication is certanly better. I find that I am not deciminating information through several people and loosing complex concepts in translation. I can get the cell phone # of the guy doing the work and call him with changes or corrections. It's actually quite nice. At first we got a little behind, but now most of the projects are ahead of schedule.
Much of the force is still Hispanic, but they are legal and most of them speak very good English. I am also seeing a big increase in college kids and female workers.
Is anyone else experiencing this?
This is what I have been trying to explain but some people just want to ignore the facts....It's going to take some time but the trades will become a way to make money and raise a family like it use to be.....
Amen. I wonder if any of these home builders and construction companies who are crying wolf about skilled worker shortages have called the building trades unions in search of employees?
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
Double A Said:
When these dire predictions materialize we simply expedite the process for legal immigration to fill those jobs clearing the backlog of immigrants patiently waiting to migrate legally.
First, they are not dire predictions, its just a cold fact. I'm not crying doom and gloom, just pointing out that we simply do not have the workforce to cover it if even 10mil workers left. We would need to see double our unemployment to even handle that.
and we can not wait for this to happen before we do something. Shutting down that much industry and agriculture and then trying to fix the problem would be a larger disaster than we currently have. We need to do something about it NOW - not wait until disaster strikes.
But I wholeheartedly agree with you that we need to fix the stupid immigration system to fill our demand for labor and placate the supply of immigrants LEGALLY. Under the current system legal applicants are getting screwed. If it was a choice of waiting 5 years and hoping to get in or just walking over I'd be here illegally too I'm afraid. But I am afraid most laborer who want to immigrate from Latin America have already come over - legally or otherwise.
Mostly because our system is retarded and probably going to get worse.
If they materialize(highly doubtful), we follow the policy I previously mentioned, filling those jobs with immigrants from across the globe, not just Latin America. This is how we preserve the melting pot that is the United States, protect our culture from becoming balkanized, and secure the sovereignty of our nation. It's pretty simple really, nowhere near genius, reward those who follow the law and punish those who break it. Problem solved.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
Sending 12 or 20 million illegal immigrants back to Mexico ain't going to happen, so you can let go of that fantasy.
We can come close to sending that many home if other states enact laws similar to Oklahoma's anti-illegal immigration laws.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
All I know is that I had lunch at the Qdoba on Cherry street today and for the first time I can remember there was a white guy working the register and the hispanic woman who took my order/fixed my naked burrito could actually speak English.
They speak better English than you may realize.
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
All I know is that I had lunch at the Qdoba on Cherry street today and for the first time I can remember there was a white guy working the register and the hispanic woman who took my order/fixed my naked burrito could actually speak English.
They speak better English than you may realize.
Oh... I know. We had our roof replaced last year after some spring storms and the entire crew was Mexican. Hard workers, but when they messed up something and I noticed it while their foreman was gone I was trying to tell them what the problem was. It was with the ridge vent if you're wondering.
Anyway they were all standing around doing their best "no speak much English" routine until I said "Hmmmmm...guess I should call INS to see if you guys are even legal."
Amazingly they all suddenly had the ability to speak English and let me know they would fix the problem.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
All I know is that I had lunch at the Qdoba on Cherry street today and for the first time I can remember there was a white guy working the register and the hispanic woman who took my order/fixed my naked burrito could actually speak English.
They speak better English than you may realize.
Oh... I know. We had our roof replaced last year after some spring storms and the entire crew was Mexican. Hard workers, but when they messed up something and I noticed it while their foreman was gone I was trying to tell them what the problem was. It was with the ridge vent if you're wondering.
Anyway they were all standing around doing their best "no speak much English" routine until I said "Hmmmmm...guess I should call INS to see if you guys are even legal."
Amazingly they all suddenly had the ability to speak English and let me know they would fix the problem.
Ya, nothing triggers one's English abilities like a mention of the INS dropping by for a visit....
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
Sending 12 or 20 million illegal immigrants back to Mexico ain't going to happen, so you can let go of that fantasy.
We can make a huge dent in that number if they get real serious about the real threat of illegal aliens to our nation. First, Turn off the magnet drawing illegals up here, seal the border and deport every illegal that is found out,Allow local cops to enforce immigration laws. Many illegals will self deport when they can't get jobs. If 20 million illegals can come here -20 million can go back home. A trip of 1,000 miles starts with a single foot step. The deportation of 20 million illegal aliens starts with the first illegal sent home.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
All I know is that I had lunch at the Qdoba on Cherry street today and for the first time I can remember there was a white guy working the register and the hispanic woman who took my order/fixed my naked burrito could actually speak English.
They speak better English than you may realize.
Oh... I know. We had our roof replaced last year after some spring storms and the entire crew was Mexican. Hard workers, but when they messed up something and I noticed it while their foreman was gone I was trying to tell them what the problem was. It was with the ridge vent if you're wondering.
Anyway they were all standing around doing their best "no speak much English" routine until I said "Hmmmmm...guess I should call INS to see if you guys are even legal."
Amazingly they all suddenly had the ability to speak English and let me know they would fix the problem.
Indeed, and the employer who hired them did no background checks so you have no idea who those people were. No one knows if they had any roofing skills. A roof needs to be fixed right by skilled people who know what they are doing.