A student asked a question at the University of Florida John Kerry town hall meeting today. It was not a flattering question. While he was waiting for an answer the campus police took him into custody. He threw his hands in the air and asked what he had done wrong.
Instead of telling him he was being disruptive and needed to leave they instantly attempted to over power him. He did not struggle until they tried to put hand cuffs on him. At which point they tackled him and tazed him as he BEGGED not be be tazed.
He was subsequently arrested for inciting a riot.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE&mode=related&search=
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ec_1190097717&p=1
- - -
I do not know the forum policy. Perhaps you were not allowed to ask tough questions or maybe his time was up. But this was handled about as poorly as one could imagine. While the kid has some fault for acting up in the situation, it seems he had some right to question why he was being detained and upon not receiving an answer to question their authority.
He never posed a physical threat to anyone nor did he commit any crime, so why respond instantly with violence? If they cut his mic and then told him he had to leave and he had further outburst that point would come. Maybe its just the video, but it seems they really jumped the gun (then the kid went into freak out mode, understandably I guess). Certainly some harassment should be expected by public figures in open forums on college campuses.
Sucks for Kerry, clearly he had no part in this but it will be fodder for a long while.
[edit] CORRECTIONS:
http://www.local10.com/news/14138122/detail.html?rss=mia&psp=news
They were Orlando police, not campus.
He was charged with Disorderly conduct and resisting. [/edit]
That's what he gets for wasting his time with that imbicile John Kerry......
PS...I just watched the video....He deserved everything he got....He should have followed instructions......
I'm just surprised they tazed him at a Kerry event. Again, I dont understand why they threw him out to start with - probably had a reason. But the police should go out of their way to take the high road. Simply stopping and saying:
"You have been deemed belligerent and are disruptive at this time. You have to leave the premises."
Then the kid looks like the over reacting jerk if he freaks out. Instead, they start pushing on a college kid, seemingly for asking an uncomfortable question. Especially when the kid says "OK, I'll leave" just let him up, take him into the hallway and arrest him. It was handled very poorly, especially given the national media in attendance and the high profile nature of such events.
PS. I'm not a big fan of having to follow instructions for no other reason than having to follow instructions. I tell my 7 year old why he is in trouble or has to do something. You'd think the police would extend the same courtesy.
There was another group of people that demanded everyone blindly following their instructions, they were called nazis. (couldnt resist [;)])
He didn't follow the rules from the beginning. What makes you think he would have followed the officers instructions if they let him up?
found this link on another forum
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/09/17/student-tasered-at-john-kerry-forum/
quote:
So I went to the John Kerry town hall forum this morning trying to get students registered to vote. I run a student government organization called Chomp the Vote. Anyway I went inside to watch the event. Senator Kerry took the podium and began delivering a speech about the Middle East, Iraq, dimplomacy, etc. Anyway, after he was done, a university ambassador asked Kerry a few premade questions. Once that was over, Senator Kerry announced he would take questions from the students. There were two
microphones placed on each side of the aisle. One on my side and the other on Andrew Meyer's side. Senator Kerry began answering the student's questions from each aisle. Eventually it was announced that there would only be a few more questions answered. Since Meyer and I were both in the back of each line, it did not seem likely that our questions would be answered.
However, while Senator Kerry was responding to a student's question, all of a sudden Meyer rushed to the microphone with cops in pursuit. At that point no one knew what was going on. Could he have a gun, a bomb? Immediately, Meyer began yelling into the microphone that he had been waiting in line forever and that Senator Kerry should "spend time to answer everyone's questions!" Senator Kerry tried to calm the student down by telling him that he would "stay here as long as it takes to get the questions answered." The police approached Meyer who began taunting them by saying "what! are you going to taser me? are you going to arrest me?!" The police grabbed Meyer, but Senator Kerry asked the
police to let him go and that he would answer his question. Senator Kerry finished answering the other student's question and then proceeded with Meyer. (*This entire scene is not in any video I can find so far. This is why 2 cops are seen right behind Meyer at the start of some videos*).
Meyer approached the microphone and began to talk about a book he had which stated that Kerry won the 2004 election because of disenfranchisement of black voters and faulty voter machines that produced "Bush" as the winner. He then posed another question about why President Bush had not been impeached. "President Clinton was impeached because of a blowjob, why not Bush?". The third and strangest question he posed to Senator Kerry was asking him if he was part of the skull and bones society with Bush at
Yale. Meyer's mic cut off after that, probably because he had mentioned the word "blowjob". The cops grabbed him, but Meyer was able to get away several times. Eventually more cops were brought in to help subdue Meyer. Meyer continued to resist arrest, scream, curse; however he was enventually subdued by about six cops up around the entrance. As he is on the ground, he is told several times to put his hands around his back. He is also warned that he will be tasered if he does not comply. Eventually he is tasered twice. The video does not show whether he complied or not.
Senator Kerry was trying to answer his question to the audience, mostly the one about faulty voter machines. I am a die hard conservative Republican but I do respect Senator Kerry for trying to soothe the situation as best he could and trying not to escalate the situation. He DID intervene by letting the student at least present his question. I never received an opportunity to ask my question, but when Senator Kerry ended the show after the Meyer incident, he did come off stage to shake hands and give autographs. At that point, I was able to ask him my question, shake his hand, and get a autograph at the same time. Now why couldn't Andrew Meyer do that?
I don't know if this is relevant or not, but Andrew Meyer is a former sports writer for the school newspaper The Alligator. In his columns, he has been known to make ridiculous statements in order to gain attention for himself. Was today a publicity stunt?
Alt ought to feel lucky he didn't get cuffed, stuffed, and tazed at the Rudy appearance. That would have been hillarious to see all that on camera, then a "bzzzzt" right before the camera went blank.
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
He didn't follow the rules from the beginning. What makes you think he would have followed the officers instructions if they let him up?
The rules he didn't follow were failure to stay within his allotted time. Then they started getting violent with him. Am I the only one that thinks police and other authority figures should be held to a higher standard?
Did you read that complete story up there.......????
Sorry, this just made me roll:
"...He then posed another question about why President Bush had not been impeached. "President Clinton was impeached because of a blowjob, why not Bush?". The third and strangest question he posed to Senator Kerry was asking him if he was part of the skull and bones society with Bush at
Yale. Meyer's mic cut off after that, probably because he had mentioned the word "blowjob"...."
[}:)]
www.break.com has another video from a different angle. You see alot more of his resisting. Especially up by the door.
Who is Mr. Kerry?
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
www.break.com has another video from a different angle. You see alot more of his resisting. Especially up by the door.
That's where I'm mixed. He did start really resisting, but he did so AFTER they started pushing him around. I don't think I would argue against bringing charges on him, but they handled this VERY poorly.
This case does not really apply, but at what point can you fight back against the police?
Again, I do not think the student handled himself well at all. He clearly made an donkey of himself. I just expect the authorities to be above such antics and they fell directly into his trap.
Just watched the video. Cant really tell how long he had been up there and what the question and answer policy was to really know whether it was right for the police to start to take him away. But once they did it was wrong for him to resist like that. By the time they got to the point of tasering him, I would have shot him frankly lol.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Just watched the video. Cant really tell how long he had been up there and what the question and answer policy was to really know whether it was right for the police to start to take him away. But once they did it was wrong for him to resist like that. By the time they got to the point of tasering him, I would have shot him frankly lol.
Lmao...
If michelle malkin is correct, the student broke the rules when he cut in line and jumped on the mic.
Watching the video, imho, the two cops that first approached him and tried to control him were physically outmatched. He was controlling the situation. It wasn't until the Sgt. came down and started ushering/carrying him up the aisle that some control was acheived. However, the second video clearly shows he broke away from the Sgt. in an attempt to stay in the room or go back down the aisle. They had to take him to the ground to get him back under control. At that point, it took 4 or 6 officers and a taser to get him handcuffed and under control. That guy was lucky he just got tased. I'm suprised he didn't get pepper sprayed. I think that hurts worse. The effects last for about 45 minutes, where the taser doesn't hurt anymore after the "ride".
I'm not an expert and not a LEO but is it unreasonable to think that 4-6 cops should have been able to carry him out (all the way, not just to the back) of the auditorium, take him down to the ground and then cuff him? Seems like 4-6 trained officers should have been able to do that without having to taser him.
If they made a mistake that is fine, I make small mistakes often in my job. I'd hate to make one that could cause someone their life though. Maybe it's just a training issue with the officers? If they are that inefficient with a non-violent offender that apparently has no intent to 'harm' anyone - I'd hate to see how they'd efficiently deescalate or end a more serious situation.
Municipalities and or lar enforcement just do not want to be embarassed by their locals in front of bigwigs. Certain local bloggers would have been arrested for their outbursts at certain RiverTax forums if the politician had been Cheney, for instance.
"DON'T TAZE ME BRO!!!!" BZZZZT.... AAAGHH!!!
I'm going to take some heat for this, but I have gotten far too much enjoyment out of that.
quote:
Originally posted by tulsacyclist
I'm not an expert and not a LEO but is it unreasonable to think that 4-6 cops should have been able to carry him out (all the way, not just to the back) of the auditorium, take him down to the ground and then cuff him? Seems like 4-6 trained officers should have been able to do that without having to taser him.
If they made a mistake that is fine, I make small mistakes often in my job. I'd hate to make one that could cause someone their life though. Maybe it's just a training issue with the officers? If they are that inefficient with a non-violent offender that apparently has no intent to 'harm' anyone - I'd hate to see how they'd efficiently deescalate or end a more serious situation.
4 to 6 officers could have done it without the taser but he could have been truly injured (i.e. broken bones, shoulder/arm dislocation, wrist injury, knot on head, broken nose ect.)
Besides, he is a tall fellow, and they had one cuff on him when he really started swinging about - at that point he was armed.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
"DON'T TAZE ME BRO!!!!" BZZZZT.... AAAGHH!!!
I'm going to take some heat for this, but I have gotten far too much enjoyment out of that.
I should have some sort of sympathy for the guy but he clearly was there to "start something." Problem is, someone like John Kerry gets his share of protesters, heckers and death threats. You never know what that person was going to do in a crowded room....
And by the time we got to that point in the video, I could not help but translate "DON'T TAZE ME, DON'T TAZE ME, BRO..." into, "...don't... stop... don't stop, don't stop..."
Methinks the lady protested too much.
quote:
Originally posted by USRufnex
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
"DON'T TAZE ME BRO!!!!" BZZZZT.... AAAGHH!!!
I'm going to take some heat for this, but I have gotten far too much enjoyment out of that.
I should have some sort of sympathy for the guy but he clearly was there to "start something." Problem is, someone like John Kerry gets his share of protesters, heckers and death threats. You never know what that person was going to do in a crowded room....
And by the time we got to that point in the video, I could not help but translate "DON'T TAZE ME, DON'T TAZE ME, BRO..." into, "...don't... stop... don't stop, don't stop..."
Methinks the lady protested too much.
[:O][:P]
He F.W.T.P. and recieved what he deserved..It's real simple for him if he does what he is asked....He elevated the situation.....It's a shame how some of the media is not relating the whole story but thats par for the course....
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
4 to 6 officers could have done it without the taser but he could have been truly injured (i.e. broken bones, shoulder/arm dislocation, wrist injury, knot on head, broken nose ect.)
That makes sense, thanks for the reply.
I think he got what he deserved, after looking at the video a few times. He was obviously there to start trouble, and when the cops start leading you out, you DON'T scuffle with them.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/nation/5150740.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/wkmg/20070919/lo_wkmg/14147512
I think these cops should probably be tasered.
The use of tasers is a little out of control, in my opinion.
He unwittingly created a cottage industry overnight. No less than five different designs out there now. He ought to trademark it before it's too late:
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q55/71conan/TN/tasemebro.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by NellieBly
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/nation/5150740.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/wkmg/20070919/lo_wkmg/14147512
I think these cops should probably be tasered.
The use of tasers is a little out of control, in my opinion.
They have to be tasered to carry one.
quote:
the taser doesn't hurt anymore after the "ride".
Unless you are one of the percentage who's heart goes into fibrillation from the shock (and you die) or the officer is a sadist who doesnt know when to stop...
http://www.winknews.com/news/weird/9906352.html
A police officer is on paid leave after dash-cam video shows him using a taser over and over again on a woman even after she's handcuffed.
The video is disturbing and it has Warren City officials in an uproar. It shows a woman being tasered numerous times by Warren police officer Rich Kovach. The video shows the woman distraught and pleading for him to stop but Kovach can be heard screaming at her.
Finally, other officers arrive at the scene and Kovach removes the woman from his car. But as she is walking out of the frame, she is tasered again.
quote:
Originally posted by patric
quote:
the taser doesn't hurt anymore after the "ride".
Unless you are one of the percentage who's heart goes into fibrillation from the shock (and you die) or the officer is a sadist who doesnt know when to stop...
http://www.winknews.com/news/weird/9906352.html
A police officer is on paid leave after dash-cam video shows him using a taser over and over again on a woman even after she's handcuffed.
The video is disturbing and it has Warren City officials in an uproar. It shows a woman being tasered numerous times by Warren police officer Rich Kovach. The video shows the woman distraught and pleading for him to stop but Kovach can be heard screaming at her.
Finally, other officers arrive at the scene and Kovach removes the woman from his car. But as she is walking out of the frame, she is tasered again.
The officer just had to get in one more BZZZZZZZZZT, eh?
Mash-up of 'Don't taze me bro' and MC Hammer (//%22http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=34d_1190505612%22)
When hardly a week goes by without hearing of someone killed by a Taser...
quote:
2nd Suspect In 3 Days Dies After Tasing (//%22http://www.news4jax.com/news/14652477/detail.html%22)
...it's a little disturbing to see how casual and unrestrained Taser use actually is:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fae_1195587967
The story: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/21/ap/national/main3532129.shtml
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/22/national/main3534130.shtml
Since taser videos are being posted, I like this one.....
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=684fb0c28c
I have seen that one it's my fav....Not such a tough guy after the zap......
Third Death in Five Weeks Prompts 8th Taser Probe
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071122192107.ylse68g3&show_article=1
Recent medical studies hail the safe use of conducted energy weapons
By Darrell L. Ross, Ph.D.
The use of the TASER®, conducted energy weapons (CEWs) has increased in popularity among law enforcement and correctional agencies. Presently over 8,000 law enforcement departments utilize them (TASER International, 2007). However, since there have been a number of sudden deaths and injuries of arrestees following deployment of the TASER, numerous concerns have emerged regarding the safe use of the device. Questions regarding the safety of CWEs have prompted several research projects. Because the use of the TASER has increased over the use of oleoresin capsicum and impact weapons, a review of recent research is important.
In 2005 the Canadian Police Research Centre released a report entitled, "Review of Conducted Energy Devices," which analyzed 15 studies regarding the medical safety of the use of CEWs. Their research did not present evidence that implicated a causal relationship between the use of CEWs and death; that existing studies indicate that the risk of cardiac harm to subjects from CEW is very low; and the impact of CEWs on respiration, pH levels, and other associated physical effects, offers a plausible theory on the possible connection between deaths, CEWs use, and people exhibiting the symptoms of excited delirium. The researchers concluded that CEWs are effective tools with a low risk of harm to the subject.
In 2006 Stroke and Huston, published a medical case series article which analyzed 37 autopsy reports of decedents who died after exposure to the TASER® from 2001 to 2005. All of the subjects were men, ranging between the ages of 18 to 50 years. Cardiovascular disease was found in 54%, illegal substances were found by toxicology screening in 78%, and 86% within that group were found to have been using stimulants. Excited delirium was determined in 76% of the cases. The use of the TASER was considered a potential or contributory cause of death in 27%. This research was the largest and the second study to analyze autopsy reports of those exposed to CEW applications. Kornblum and Reddy (1991) studied 16 deaths after the use of the TASER and found no causal factor of death associated with its use. Stroke and Huston concluded that those that died after the use of the TASER are individuals who were already at a high risk for sudden deaths, particularly those who are exhibiting extreme agitation, those with a history of stimulant drug use, and those with preexisting heart disease.
Ho et al. (2006) performed a medical study for TASER International which assessed the effects of the TASER on human subjects. The researchers were unable to detect, following a 5 second TASER exposure in a healthy population, any induced dysrthymias or cardiac cellular damage that could be related to sudden death, They did report, however, blood pH, and metabolic acidosis could increase the risk of cardiac arrest.
Chan et al. (2006) exposed 32 subjects to a 1.5 second cycle shock to the TASER. Prior to exposure, the subjects' baseline measurements were taken. All of the subjects were monitored for six hours after the exposure. They found no evidence of hypoxemia or hypoventilation. Further, they found a moderate increase in respiratory rate for ten minutes but found no significant clinical changes in cardiovascular rates. Changes in blood levels were not evidenced.
Bouton et al. (2006) exposed 21 law enforcement academy cadets to one, 5 second TASER application and monitored their physiological stress, ventilatory and blood pH for one hour after exposure. Baseline measurements were taken prior to the TASER application. The main finding of the research indicated that a 5 second TASER application did not cause clinically significant physiological stress. Respiratory rates increased mildly for a brief time. Changes in ventilatory and blood measures increased no more than what is expected during moderate exercise. The researchers concluded that a 5 second TASER exposure did not cause clinically significant indications of physiological stress that could be causally linked to sudden death.
Ross (2007) analyzed 47 autopsy reports from 20 states from 1999 to 2006 of individuals who died after exposure to the TASER. Of these incidents, 85% occurred in a street arrest situation and 15% occurred in jail. All of the decedents were men, 54% were white, and the average age was 35 years. Heart disease was found in 85%, 65% had an enlarged heart, and 35% exhibited other internal organ abnormalities. On average the TASER was applied in 2 cycles of 5 second intervals. In 75% of the cases the cause of death was due to cardiac arrest due to drugs and excited delirium and 10% of the deaths were caused by acute exhaustive mania. No direct linkage to the use of TASER was correlated to the cause of death.
Ross (2007) also analyzed 75 police agency reports from 22 states on the applications of the TASER in 34,000 arrests from 2002 to 2006. Of these arrests the TASER was deployed in 6,010 or 18%. The agencies reported that suspect injuries decreased by 66%, minor injuries were sustained in 35% of the arrests, and officer injuries declined by 58%. The effective rate of the use of the TASER was observed in 94%. On average lethal force incidents declined by 48%, excessive force lawsuits declined by 52%, citizen complaints declined by 52%, and no deaths were reported.
The most recent medical study researching the injury potential of using the TASER was performed by Bozeman et al. (10/2007) from the Wake Forest Medical School. The Department of Justice funded the study for the purpose of performing the first large, independent study which assessed the injury and severity of injury after exposure to the TASER. A multicenter cohort study was conducted at six police agencies across the country. All arrestees exposed to the TASER were included in the study from July 2005 to June 2007 which totaled 962. A tactical physician at each agency reviewed police records and medical records for each case.
Injuries were classified as mild (outpatient treatment), moderate (short-term inpatient treatment), or severe (long-term inpatient treatment). Subjects mean age was 32 years and 94% were male. The mean number of shocks delivered was 1.6 in the probe mode and 1.8 in the drive stun mode. Findings of the research reveal that: 99.7% of the subjects sustained no injuries or mild injuries; skin punctures from the TASER probes, contusions and lacerations account for 98.5% of mild injuries; and the back, chest and the abdomen/pelvis areas represented 76% of the body impact areas. During the study, two in-custody deaths occurred. Neither death occurred immediately after the TASER was deployed and the autopsy showed that both deaths were unrelated to the TASER. Only 3 cases (0.3%) were classified as severe requiring hospitalization, including: 1 case of rhabdomolysis, 1 case of cerebral contusion, and 1 case of epidural hematoma. The researchers concluded that the findings support the safety of TASER use by law enforcement.
While these studies do not represent all medical research on the subject they do reveal emerging significant findings. All but one of the studies involved independent research. What is important about these studies is that they have moved past studying the effect of the TASER on animals and have researched its impact on humans. The Bozeman et al., Ross, and Ho et al. studies analyzed incidents from actual field applications. The Bozeman et al. study is particularly noteworthy as it applied a longitudinal design with multiple sites with almost 1,000 suspects. The study shows that the injury potential of using the TASER is statistically insignificant supporting its safe usage.
The collective findings of all of these studies support the fact that the TASER is not causally linked to sudden deaths of suspects, that there is an extremely low risk of injury to a suspect, and that there is no evidence that it causes cardiovascular effects linking it to sudden death. This is not to suggest that the TASER is totally risk free. While rare, there have been limited significant injuries sustained after the use of the TASER. These studies, however, are important as they underscore the initial development of the TASER, in that it was designed to safely control resisting subjects by decreasing the injury potential for the subject and the officer. Officers using the TASER are encouraged to closely follow their training, policy, and use of force legal standards in a continued effort to maximize its continued safe application.
Im willing to wager that those tests with short, single bursts to healthy police recruits would yield significantly different results than real-world episodes of longer, repeated jolts to minors, the elderly or those less physically fit.
Ive always believed Tasers had their place as substitutes for deadly force, but a bit dismayed that they seem to be evolving into a substitute for civil discourse.
In the recent Utah case, even the officer's department is shying away from his defense.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/22/national/main3534130.shtml
quote:
a little disturbing to see how casual and unrestrained Taser use actually is:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fae_1195587967
The story: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/21/ap/national/main3532129.shtml
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/22/national/main3534130.shtml
It figures there would be a copycat... this one in Texas over Thanksgiving:
http://www.statesman.com/news/mplayer/other/32386
Can you say "Roid Rage?"
A federal appeals court ruled that police may no longer use Tasers just to win arguments or gain compliance from unarmed citizens:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/05/opinion/05tue3.html
Quote from: patric on January 05, 2010, 02:53:29 PM
A federal appeals court ruled that police may no longer use Tasers just to win arguments or gain compliance from unarmed citizens:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/05/opinion/05tue3.html
The Ninth Circuit (the most reversed/overturned circuit) ruled that way? Shocked, shocked I say. I know this very old thread originated re: John Kerry. When I saw someone bringing it up again, my first thought was it was about Kerry getting allegedly b!tched slapped by Iran over his Visa request.