Here is the transcript of the Senator from Idaho:
http://wcco.com/local/local_story_242175735.html
and the Audio:
http://static.cbslocal.com/station/wcco/news/local/crime/07_0830_senatorlarrycraigarrest_interrogationtapes.mp3
Go forth, and judge for yourself. I remain undecided, but I am leaning towards believing the officer. If he wanted to hang this man our to dry he could have hauled him to jail/court. He didnt.
So I believe the Officers version of events, but I still do not believe it is a smoking gun. A strong indication to be sure. But not proof.
Still listening... when he was confronted about touching the bottom of the stall the Senator said "I don't do things like that." Things like what? Touching stalls. Man, I'm leaning here... I'd say 80-90% the senator is totally full of crap (pun intended). Still not 100%, But the whole - it wasn't my left hand thing, what a strange argument to take. Why not just say yes I rubbed my hand because it looked like a strange texture... whatever. Gotta believe the officer.
Here is the transcript:
Investigative Sergeant Dave Karsnia (DK) along with Detective Noel Nelson (NN) interview Idaho Senator Larry Craig (LC) at the Minneapolis/St. Paul Airport after an incident in a men's bathroom. Below is the transcript of that interview.
LC: Am I gonna have to fight you in court?
DK: No. No. I'm not gonna go to court unless you want me there.
LC: 'Cause I don't want to be in court either.
DK: Ok. I don't either.
(inaudible)
DK: Um, here's the way it works, um, you'll you'll be released today, okay.
LC: Okay.
DK: All right. I, I know I can bring you to jail, but that's not my goal here, okay? (inaudible)
LC: Don't do that. You You
DK: I'm not going to bring you to jail
LC: You solicited me.
DK: Okay. We're going to get, We're going to get into that. (inaudible)
LC: Okay.
DK: But there's the, there there's two ways, yes. You can, you can, ah, you can go to court. You can plead guilty.
LC: Yep.
DK: There'll be a fine. You won't have to explain anything. (inaudible) I know.
LC: Right.
DK: And you'll pay a fine, you be (inaudible), done. Or if you want to plead not guilty, ah, and I, I can't make these decisions for you.
LC: No, no. Just tell me where I am (inaudible) I need to make this flight.
DK: Okay. Okay. And then I go to people that are not guilty, then I would have to come to court and end up testifying. So those are the two things, okay. Did I explain that part?
LC: Yes.
DK: Okay. Um, ah, I'm just going to read you your rights real quick, okay? You got it on?
NN: Yep.
DK: Okay.
DK: Ah, the date is 6/11/07 at 1228 hours. Um, Mr. Craig?
LC: Yes.
DK: Sorry about that. (ringing phone)
DK: You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court of law. You have the right to talk to a lawyer now or have a present, a lawyer present now or anytime during questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed to you without cost. Do you understand each of these rights the way I have explained them to you?
LC: I do.
DK: Do you wish to talk to us at this time?
LC: I do.
DK: Okay. Um, I just wanna start off with a your side of the story, okay. So, a
LC: So I go into the bathroom here as I normally do, I'm a commuter too here.
DK: Okay.
LC: I sit down, um, to go to the bathroom and ah, you said our feet bumped. I believe they did, ah, because I reached down and scooted over and um, the next thing I knew, under the bathroom divider comes a card that says Police. Now, um, (sigh) that's about as far as I can take it, I don't know of anything else. Ah, your foot came toward mine, mine came towards yours, was that natural? I don't know. Did we bump? Yes. I think we did. You said so. I don't disagree with that.
DK: Okay. I don't want to get into a pissing match here.
LC: We're not going to.
DK: Good. Um,
LC: I don't, ah, I am not gay, I don't do these kinds of things and...
DK: It doesn't matter, I don't care about sexual preference or anything like that. Here's your stuff back sir. Um, I don't care about sexual preference.
LC: I know you don't. You're out to enforce the law.
DK: Right.
LC: But you shouldn't be out to entrap people either.
DK: This isn't entrapment.
LC: All right.
DK: Um, you you're skipping some parts here, but what, what about your hand?
LC: What about it? I reached down, my foot like this. There was a piece of paper on the floor, I picked it up.
DK: Okay.
LC: What about my hand?
DK: Well, you're not being truthful with me, I'm kinda disappointed in you Senator. I'm real disappointed in you right now. Okay. I'm not, just so you know, just like everybody, I, I, I, treat with dignity, I try to pull them away from the situation
LC: I, I
DK: and not embarrass them.
LC: I appreciate that.
DK: And I
LC: You did that after the stall.
DK: I will say every person I've had so far has told me the truth. We've been respectful to each other and then they've gone on their way. And I've never had to bring anybody to jail because everybody's been truthful to me.
LC: I don't want you to take me to jail and I think.
DK: I'm not gonna take you to jail as long as your cooperative but I'm not gonna lie. We...
LC: Did my hand come below the divider? Yes. It did.
DK: Okay, sir. We deal with people that lie to us everyday.
LC: I'm sure you do.
DK: I'm sure you do to sir.
LC: And gentleman so do I.
DK: I'm sure you do. We deal with a lot of people that are very bad people. You're not a bad person.
LC: No, I don't think I am.
DK: Okay, so what I'm telling you, I don't want to be lied to.
LC: Okay.
DK: Okay. So we'll start over, you're gonna get out of here. You're gonna have to pay a fine and that will be it. Okay. I don't call media, I don't do any of that type of crap.
LC: Fine.
DK: Okay.
LC: Fine.
DK: All right, so let's start from the beginning. You went in the bathroom.
LC: I went in the bathroom.
DK: And what did you do when you...
LC: I stood beside the wall, waiting for a stall to open. I got in the stall, sat down, and I started to go to the bathroom. Ah, did our feet come together, apparently they did bump. Well, I won't dispute that.
DK: Okay. When I got out of the stall, I noticed other other stalls were open.
LC: They were at the time. At the time I entered, I, I, at the time I entered, I stood and waited.
DK: Okay.
LC: They were all busy, you know?
DK: Were you (inaudible) out here while you were waiting? I could see your eyes. I saw you playing with your fingers and then look up. Play with your fingers and then look up.
LC: Did I glance at your stall? I was glancing at a stall right beside yours waiting for a fella to empty it. I saw him stand up and therefore I thought it was going to empty.
DK: How long do you think you stood outside the stalls?
LC: Oh a minute or two at the most.
DK: Okay. And when you went in the stalls, then what?
LC: Sat down.
DK: Okay. Did you do anything with your feet?
LC: Positioned them, I don't know. I don't know at the time. I'm a fairly wide guy.
DK: I understand.
LC: I had to spread my legs.
DK: Okay.
LC: When I lower my pants so they won't slide.
DK: Okay.
LC: Did I slide them too close to yours? Did I, I looked down once, your foot was close to mine.
DK: Yes.
LC: Did we bump? Ah, you said so, I don't recall that, but apparently we were close.
DK: Yeah, well your foot did touch mine, on my side of the stall.
LC: All right.
DK: Okay. And then with the hand. Um, how many times did you put your hand under the stall?
LC: I don't recall. I remember reaching down once. There was a piece of toilet paper back behind me and picking it up.
DK: Okay. Was your was your palm down or up when you were doing that?
LC: I don't recall.
DK: Okay. I recall your palm being up. Okay.
LC: All right.
DK: When you pick up a piece of paper off the ground, your palm would be down, when you pick something up.
LC: Yeah, probably would be. I recall picking the paper up.
DK: And I know it's hard to describe here on tape but actually what I saw was your fingers come underneath the stalls, you're actually ta touching the bottom of the stall divider.
LC: I don't recall that.
DK: You don't recall
LC: I don't believe I did that. I don't.
DK: I saw, I saw
LC: I don't do those things.
DK: I saw your left hand and I could see the gold wedding ring when it when it went across. I could see that. On your left hand, I could see that.
LC: Wait a moment, my left hand was over here.
DK: I saw there's a...
LC: My right hand was next to you.
DK: I could tell it with my ah, I could tell it was your left hand because your thumb was positioned in a faceward motion. Your thumb was on this side, not on this side.
LC: Well, we can dispute that. I'm not going to fight you in court and I, I reached down with my right hand to pick up the paper.
DK: But I'm telling you that I could see that so I know that's your left hand. Also I could see a gold ring on this finger, so that's obvious it was the left hand.
LC: Yeah, okay. My left hand was in the direct opposite of the stall from you.
DK: Okay. You, you travel through here frequently correct?
LC: I do.
DK: Um,
LC: Almost weekly.
DK: Have you been successful in these bathrooms here before?
LC: I go to that bathroom regularly
DK: I mean for any type of other activities.
LC: No. Absolutely not. I don't seek activity in bathrooms.
DK: It's embarrassing.
LC: Well it's embarrassing for both..I'm not gonna fight you.
DK: I know you're not going to fight me. But that's not the point. I would respect you and I still respect you. I don't disrespect you but I'm disrespected right now and I'm not trying to act like I have all kinds of power or anything, but you're sitting here lying to a police officer.
LC: I, I, I,
DK: It's not a (inaudible) I'm getting from somebody else. I'm (inaudible)
LC: (inaudible)
(Talking over each other)
DK: I am trained in this and I know what I am doing. And I say you put your hand under there and you're going to sit there and...
LC: I admit I put my hand down.
DK: You put your hand and rubbed it on the bottom of the stall with your left hand.
LC: No. Wait a moment.
DK: And I, I'm not dumb, you can say I don't recall...
LC: If I had turned sideways, that was the only way I could get my left hand over there.
DK: It's not that hard for me to reach. (inaudible) it's not that hard. I see it happen everyday out here now.
LC: (inaudible) you do. All right.
DK: I just, I just, I guess, I guess I'm gonna say I'm just disappointed in you sir. I'm just really am. I expect this from the guy that we get out of the hood. I mean, people vote for you.
LC: Yes, they do. (inaudible)
DK: unbelievable, unbelievable.
LC: I'm a respectable person and I don't do these kinds of...
DK: And (inaudible) respect right now though
LC: But I didn't use my left hand.
DK: I thought that you...
LC: I reached down with my right hand like this to pick up a piece of paper.
DK: Was your gold ring on your right hand at anytime today.
LC: Of course not, try to get it off, look at it.
DK: Okay. Then it was your left hand, I saw it with my own eyes.
LC: All right, you saw something that didn't happen.
DK: Embarrassing, embarrassing. No wonder why we're going down the tubes. Anything to add?
NN: Uh, no.
DK: Embarrassing. Date is 6/11/07 at 1236 interview is done.
LC: Okay
To me it almost seemed like LC was referencing prior conversations on some parts. The part that really bothers me is the right hand/left hand thing. He sat with his feet far apart and then reached under the stall with his left hand, far enough for his ring to be visible. That old man would have to be pretty freaking flexible.
I just don't get it. My response to that would be "So, is there a law against rubbing the bottom of the stall or that my foot touched yours?" I mean, did he actually come out and solicit or grope the officer? This just doesn't seem right to me, and I would say this no matter what political affiliation someone belonged to. Where's the evidence he was soliciting for sex? There is none, even if there are certain "signals" in the gay community that doesn't make it a viable argument. Gangs wear colors, and yet it isn't against the law to wear those colors innocently. I just don't get it.
Who the hell picks up nasty donkey paper from the floor of a bathroom, a public bathroom, in an airport? Who the hell touches the bottom of a stall in a public bathroom, in an airport? I'm not even picking up money unless it's at least a $20.
(http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Disgusting/vomit-4.gif)
Why is the media so obsessed with this? Craig is a closet case, BFD.
Hardly tittilating stuff in my books. William Jefferson's case is far more compelling and much more of an affront to the American taxpayer. Yet he remains in office. Craig will be pressured until he finally steps down. That's a pretty big injustice.
It's funny, the Dems are always about gay rights, and respect for gays but they have no trouble trampling all over a gay Republican.
CNN, CNNHN, MSNBC, Fox were constantly all over this transcript last night. I finally settled on "Dirty Jobs" and the building of our latest super aircraft carrier on the History Channel.
Maybe Nicole, Paris, Britney, or Lindsay will get in trouble this weekend and we'll all be asking "who the hell is Larry Craig?" by next Weds.
I love Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs...and not in a "stroking your bathroom stall" kinda way either...
Hey!!!! Great idea for a new Dirty Jobs episode...try being a janitor in a men's airport bathroom.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Why is the media so obsessed with this? Craig is a closet case, BFD.
Hardly tittilating stuff in my books. William Jefferson's case is far more compelling and much more of an affront to the American taxpayer. Yet he remains in office. Craig will be pressured until he finally steps down. That's a pretty big injustice.
It's funny, the Dems are always about gay rights, and respect for gays but they have no trouble trampling all over a gay Republican.
CNN, CNNHN, MSNBC, Fox were constantly all over this transcript last night. I finally settled on "Dirty Jobs" and the building of our latest super aircraft carrier on the History Channel.
Maybe Nicole, Paris, Britney, or Lindsay will get in trouble this weekend and we'll all be asking "who the hell is Larry Craig?" by next Weds.
First off, two wrongs don't make a right as much as you'd like it to.
So what is provocative or 'titillating' to you?
A SENATOR cruising for gay encounters in a men's public restroom...isn't.
Trampling the 'rights' of a 'gay republican'?
Wow. Just. Wow.
I must have forgot that gays have a 'right' to cruise for gay sex in a public restroom? What other 'rights' should gays be afforded? Marriage? Adoption? Oh wait...huh...what?
So my final question to you is what would it take...what crime or behavior could you NOT tolerate, spin, rationalize or apologize for?
Perjury, Embezzlement, or other forms of overt corruption are all completely intolerable to me. Much, MUCH worse than gay sex or BJs int he White House - those are merely scandals and not truly harmful to the public.
Congressmen who get caught embezzling money, taking bribes, or diverting contracts should be executed. I consider it a form of treason. The one thing I think China has right - corruption shall not be tolerated (though they really only dont tolerate it when it suits their needs... which is corrupt).
If it ever is proven that "Bush Lied," ie a tape of his saying "I know there is no real threat, but I want to kick some Iraqi donkey!" I would be in favor of the harshest penalty available. Politics should be set aside when someone is PROVEN to be cheating the public (more than usual).
/rant
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
Who the hell picks up nasty donkey paper from the floor of a bathroom, a public bathroom, in an airport? Who the hell touches the bottom of a stall in a public bathroom, in an airport? I'm not even picking up money unless it's at least a $20.
(http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Disgusting/vomit-4.gif)
Maybe he dropped something.. who knows.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
Who the hell picks up nasty donkey paper from the floor of a bathroom, a public bathroom, in an airport? Who the hell touches the bottom of a stall in a public bathroom, in an airport? I'm not even picking up money unless it's at least a $20.
(http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Disgusting/vomit-4.gif)
Maybe he dropped something.. who knows.
I guess you guys will only believe a cop when certain thresholds get crossed?
Is it socio-economic? Is it racial?
A cop shoots & kills a poor unarmed Hispanic in the back as he runs away. Yup, give that guy the complete benefit of the doubt, but this cop involved in a sting operation does not get the same benefit. For shame.
Putting a politician's word ahead of a cop?! Is this a special case? What gives.
You're doing our men in blue a total disservice & emboldening the restroom whackers (Al-Gaeda)!
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Gotta believe the officer.
Is that somehow unclear?
I believe the officer's version of events, but the events themselves do not prove he was soliciting bathroom sex to me. If you have special knowledge in this area, please let me know. [:P] The Senators denial of seemingly trivial facts compound his problems with me. If he just said "yeah, I do weird stuff in the bathroom sometimes, Im bored." I'd be more apt to write it off.
quote:
Originally posted by grahambino
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Why is the media so obsessed with this? Craig is a closet case, BFD.
Hardly tittilating stuff in my books. William Jefferson's case is far more compelling and much more of an affront to the American taxpayer. Yet he remains in office. Craig will be pressured until he finally steps down. That's a pretty big injustice.
It's funny, the Dems are always about gay rights, and respect for gays but they have no trouble trampling all over a gay Republican.
CNN, CNNHN, MSNBC, Fox were constantly all over this transcript last night. I finally settled on "Dirty Jobs" and the building of our latest super aircraft carrier on the History Channel.
Maybe Nicole, Paris, Britney, or Lindsay will get in trouble this weekend and we'll all be asking "who the hell is Larry Craig?" by next Weds.
First off, two wrongs don't make a right as much as you'd like it to.
So what is provocative or 'titillating' to you?
A SENATOR cruising for gay encounters in a men's public restroom...isn't.
Trampling the 'rights' of a 'gay republican'?
Wow. Just. Wow.
I must have forgot that gays have a 'right' to cruise for gay sex in a public restroom? What other 'rights' should gays be afforded? Marriage? Adoption? Oh wait...huh...what?
So my final question to you is what would it take...what crime or behavior could you NOT tolerate, spin, rationalize or apologize for?
You are hillarious and your reading comprehension level...eh, don't want to get edited for a personal attack.
I didn't say a word about trampling "the rights" of a gay republican.
I was saying that Dems are always about defending gay rights until it's politically expedient to persecute someone in the opposing party for being gay. Then they fall all over themselves in mock horror.
If the GOP weren't so far up the tailpipe of the Christian right, this wouldn't even be a blip on the radar screen. IMO- it's become an un-holy alliance.
This was a $500 misdemeanor. I mean pancakes? That pales in comparison to taking bribes, perjury, or an outright abuse of power like soliciting pages to be a sex toy- even though the pages Foley was soliciting were of legal age. One year later, still no criminal charges, so don't even start.
So a guy wants to troll for other gays in an airport restroom. Big deal. That's not stealing from taxpayers, and no one can say it affects his job performance.
Again, BJ in the oval office- who cares? Lying to a grand jury, federal agents, or Congress- big deal. A closet gay gets caught off Capital Hill picking up toilet paper, signaling for a hook-up or whatever- not a violation of his job.
Here again, and I'm typing slow so maybe you will get it this time:
William Jefferson- caught red-handed in a bribery scandal in exchange for abusing his power. Thieving scumbag still serving our country.
Larry Craig- appears to be a closet case. Not my cup-o-tea, but why do we care.
I know, now I'm a racist. [xx(]
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by grahambino
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Why is the media so obsessed with this? Craig is a closet case, BFD.
Hardly tittilating stuff in my books. William Jefferson's case is far more compelling and much more of an affront to the American taxpayer. Yet he remains in office. Craig will be pressured until he finally steps down. That's a pretty big injustice.
It's funny, the Dems are always about gay rights, and respect for gays but they have no trouble trampling all over a gay Republican.
CNN, CNNHN, MSNBC, Fox were constantly all over this transcript last night. I finally settled on "Dirty Jobs" and the building of our latest super aircraft carrier on the History Channel.
Maybe Nicole, Paris, Britney, or Lindsay will get in trouble this weekend and we'll all be asking "who the hell is Larry Craig?" by next Weds.
First off, two wrongs don't make a right as much as you'd like it to.
So what is provocative or 'titillating' to you?
A SENATOR cruising for gay encounters in a men's public restroom...isn't.
Trampling the 'rights' of a 'gay republican'?
Wow. Just. Wow.
I must have forgot that gays have a 'right' to cruise for gay sex in a public restroom? What other 'rights' should gays be afforded? Marriage? Adoption? Oh wait...huh...what?
So my final question to you is what would it take...what crime or behavior could you NOT tolerate, spin, rationalize or apologize for?
You are hillarious and your reading comprehension level...eh, don't want to get edited for a personal attack.
I didn't say a word about trampling "the rights" of a gay republican.
I was saying that Dems are always about defending gay rights until it's politically expedient to persecute someone in the opposing party for being gay. Then they fall all over themselves in mock horror.
If the GOP weren't so far up the tailpipe of the Christian right, this wouldn't even be a blip on the radar screen. IMO- it's become an un-holy alliance.
This was a $500 misdemeanor. I mean pancakes? That pales in comparison to taking bribes, perjury, or an outright abuse of power like soliciting pages to be a sex toy- even though the pages Foley was soliciting were of legal age. One year later, still no criminal charges, so don't even start.
So a guy wants to troll for other gays in an airport restroom. Big deal. That's not stealing from taxpayers, and no one can say it affects his job performance.
Again, BJ in the oval office- who cares? Lying to a grand jury, federal agents, or Congress- big deal. A closet gay gets caught off Capital Hill picking up toilet paper, signaling for a hook-up or whatever- not a violation of his job.
Here again, and I'm typing slow so maybe you will get it this time:
William Jefferson- caught red-handed in a bribery scandal in exchange for abusing his power. Thieving scumbag still serving our country.
Larry Craig- appears to be a closet case. Not my cup-o-tea, but why do we care.
I know, now I'm a racist. [xx(]
Not resorting to personal attacks? i for one am certainly proud of you! Not only proud, I'm thankful you spared me your *no doubt* razor-sharp wit. On second thought, it would certainly help make your point.
So, what you're saying is that you're comfortable with the fact that men in the airport, park or any public restroom are fornicating with you or CHILDREN present?
Furthermore, it is costing the taxpayer money. The good citizens of Minnesota (and Tulsa) pay our cops good money to bust these perverts!
Do they not?
Those signs at Riverparks restrooms didn't paint & hang themselves. If it weren't for men like Sen. Craig wanting to have sexy time in the men's room we wouldn't have need for law enforcement and signs.
You can keep trying to bring up Jefferson all you want. I can play this game too..in two words..."Duke" Cunningham.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Here is the transcript of the Senator from Idaho:
http://wcco.com/local/local_story_242175735.html
and the Audio:
http://static.cbslocal.com/station/wcco/news/local/crime/07_0830_senatorlarrycraigarrest_interrogationtapes.mp3
Go forth, and judge for yourself. I remain undecided, but I am leaning towards believing the officer. If he wanted to hang this man our to dry he could have hauled him to jail/court. He didnt.
So I believe the Officers version of events, but I still do not believe it is a smoking gun. A strong indication to be sure. But not proof.
Still listening... when he was confronted about touching the bottom of the stall the Senator said "I don't do things like that." Things like what? Touching stalls. Man, I'm leaning here... I'd say 80-90% the senator is totally full of crap (pun intended). Still not 100%, But the whole - it wasn't my left hand thing, what a strange argument to take. Why not just say yes I rubbed my hand because it looked like a strange texture... whatever. Gotta believe the officer.
I admit it--I'm incredibly naive. What difference does it make if its his left hand or right that reached under the stall?
quote:
Originally posted by Markk
I admit it--I'm incredibly naive. What difference does it make if its his left hand or right that reached under the stall?
The biggest difference is whether the cop was telling the truth or the senator. The senator said he picked up something off the floor, which if was true, would be with his right hand. The cop said it wasn't true and it was his left hand. I haven't tried but I'm not sure I could get my left hand under a stall wall while sitting personally.
Markk:
The cop was on his right side, so he would have to make an overt action to get his left palm face up under the right stall wall while seated on the toilet.
That fact doesnt really matter to me so much, as why he chose to argue the point. When people are panicked or lying they tend deny trivial details instead of working out the big picture. Since the cop has no reason to lie about such a thing, I take it as a strong indication that the Senator is lying.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
I didn't say a word about trampling "the rights" of a gay republican.
I was saying that Dems are always about defending gay rights until it's politically expedient to persecute someone in the opposing party for being gay. Then they fall all over themselves in mock horror.
He's not being persecuted for being gay. He's being persecuted for being a pervert and a
hypocrite. Believe it or not Conan, but all gay men don't go around cruising for sex in bathroom stalls. It's not a gay issue; it's a issue of once again a closeted Republican and faithful voter for the Christian Right who votes against any kind of rights for gays and lesbians because of what they claim are "family values". And yet, he's out cruising public spaces for sex because of the shame and disgust he has inside. I would feel sorry for him if it wasn't that in feeling shame, he has done all he could to hurt others so he could hide deep in his closet.
He's gone......nothing's gonna bring him back.
What I said, ha ha.
Once again the truth has set us free.....
Hypocrite repug gets the hook....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070901/ap_on_go_co/craig_arrest;_ylt=AkreBXpHG4ujQD9Hu4ZDizys0NUE
GOP officials: Craig to resign Saturday. Republican leadership is terrified after Jeff Gannon, Mark Foley, Craig and others of alienating its core homophobe base.
FROM 2001! Oh the irony!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW1Mpp0HZVI
Bill Clinton survived his sex scandal! Why?
You see, what Bill Clinton did was wrong but manly. What Little Larry Craig did (he did this too! http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/12/senate.statements/craig.html ) was wrong but stupid and sick. We've had just about enough stupid and sick and wrong.
Yes, Bill Clinton perjured himself but remained in favorable rankings with America.... because he's authentic. And he was not a hypocrite running around the country telling people that blow jobs were wrong!
He could be the next and first....first man.
Be afraid....
And you thought those heroin growing Gani's terrorizing America were scary. And, of course, those Iraqi's made you so insecure the leaders shot our wad.
Now Republicans can experience real fear if Bill and Hill return to The Hill.....
Boooo!!!! (be afraid!)
What's that smell....?
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
What's that smell....?
Bread burning?
More like the Stockyards......
OMG...it's in your room....or in your mouth.
Can we run a pool to see at what time IPlaw loses his switch hitter in the senate?
quote:
Originally posted by okiebybirth
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
I didn't say a word about trampling "the rights" of a gay republican.
I was saying that Dems are always about defending gay rights until it's politically expedient to persecute someone in the opposing party for being gay. Then they fall all over themselves in mock horror.
He's not being persecuted for being gay. He's being persecuted for being a pervert and a hypocrite. Believe it or not Conan, but all gay men don't go around cruising for sex in bathroom stalls. It's not a gay issue; it's a issue of once again a closeted Republican and faithful voter for the Christian Right who votes against any kind of rights for gays and lesbians because of what they claim are "family values". And yet, he's out cruising public spaces for sex because of the shame and disgust he has inside. I would feel sorry for him if it wasn't that in feeling shame, he has done all he could to hurt others so he could hide deep in his closet.
Quite well aware that it's a minority of gay men who troll parks and restrooms looking for encounters.
As I've also mentioned it's a shame that the GOP is so deep under the sheets with the Christian right that a $500 misdemeanor for someone's sexual proclivities becomes a tiresome media issue.
I don't see where it affects his job performance, nor where it was a violation of his duties as a U.S. Senator.
There is a certain married former Democrat U.S. Senator who had a thing for male pages who was very carefully protected by his party. Wearing a wedding band and looking for gay sex is in itself hypocracy.
quote:
Believe it or not Conan, but all gay men don't go around cruising for sex in bathroom stalls. It's not a gay issue
Not a "gay" issue? Please. Men having sex with other men in an airport bathroom isn't a "gay" issue? BTW, they don't have signs warning people of fines for lewd behavior outside the men's bathroom doors up and down riverside because hetero's just love having sex in nasty public bathrooms.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
quote:
Believe it or not Conan, but all gay men don't go around cruising for sex in bathroom stalls. It's not a gay issue
Not a "gay" issue? Please. Men having sex with other men in an airport bathroom isn't a "gay" issue? BTW, they don't have signs warning people of fines for lewd behavior outside the men's bathroom doors up and down riverside because hetero's just love having sex in nasty public bathrooms.
No, it's not a gay issue. Ask Craig if he's gay, he'll tell you he is not. Ask Foley, or any other closeted Republican.
It's more a issue of the Christian Right in your party trying to keep homosexuals in the closet, and using hypocritical closeted Republicans to do their bidding.
Those warnings outside the Riverside bathrooms are probably because of all the married men who frequent the parks looking for sex outside of their marriage because of their own issues with accepting their sexuality. Should we call it a "married men issue" ?
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
I don't see where it affects his job performance, nor where it was a violation of his duties as a U.S. Senator.
I would only say that when you are voting "moral" issues and yet slipping into bathrooms to have sex, then I think it goes against the public image you have created for yourself. It wouldn't nearly be as big a issue if his voting record was different, or if his fellow Republicans didn't feel the need to distance themselves from him (especially Romney and his comments). That's the real issue.
quote:
Originally posted by okiebybirth
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
quote:
Believe it or not Conan, but all gay men don't go around cruising for sex in bathroom stalls. It's not a gay issue
Not a "gay" issue? Please. Men having sex with other men in an airport bathroom isn't a "gay" issue? BTW, they don't have signs warning people of fines for lewd behavior outside the men's bathroom doors up and down riverside because hetero's just love having sex in nasty public bathrooms.
No, it's not a gay issue. Ask Craig if he's gay, he'll tell you he is not. Ask Foley, or any other closeted Republican.
It's more a issue of the Christian Right in your party trying to keep homosexuals in the closet, and using hypocritical closeted Republicans to do their bidding.
Those warnings outside the Riverside bathrooms are probably because of all the married men who frequent the parks looking for sex outside of their marriage because of their own issues with accepting their sexuality. Should we call it a "married men issue" ?
Call it what you want. Men trolling for other men in public bathrooms is a gay issue. Straight men don't frequent bathrooms for anonymous sex with other men. Just ask George Michael.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
because hetero's just love having sex in nasty public bathrooms.
What's wrong with sex in nasty public restrooms?
quote:
for anonymous sex with other men.
Ooooh, never mind.
and George Michael is my father figure.
/random comments in a thread beating a dead horse to death in a bathroom.
The question has turned into, will it be the end of him or will he survive?
[edit]typo in my quote syntax[/edit]
quote:
/random comments in a thread beating a dead gay horse to death in a bathroom.
FYP. BTW, straight horses use the bathroom OUTSIDE...
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
Call it what you want. Men trolling for other men in public bathrooms is a gay issue. Straight men don't frequent bathrooms for anonymous sex with other men. Just ask George Michael.
Saying it's a gay issue implies it is something wrong in the gay community which is totally false. The problem lies in the straight community and the desire to label homosexuals as sick or perverted, hence you have people like Craig who gets married but tries to get their desires out in other forms. I think Freud would have something to say about men who think gay sex is disgusting and then turn around and look for it in filthy and disgusting bathrooms.
And straight men don't frequent bathrooms for anonymous sex with other men, but given the chance they'd sure as he** frequent bathrooms, woods, parks or whatever if they could have anonymous sex with women. It's a man issue.
quote:
Saying it's a gay issue implies it is something wrong in the gay community which is totally false.
Man sex in public bathrooms isn't a problem to you?
quote:
The problem lies in the straight community and the desire to label homosexuals as sick or perverted, hence you have people like Craig who gets married but tries to get their desires out in other forms. I think Freud would have something to say about men who think gay sex is disgusting and then turn around and look for it in filthy and disgusting bathrooms.
I think he advocated the recreational use of cocaine too. Care to quote Freud some more?
quote:
And straight men don't frequent bathrooms for anonymous sex with other men, but given the chance they'd sure as he** frequent bathrooms, woods, parks or whatever if they could have anonymous sex with women. It's a man issue.
Right...it's a "man" issue.[xx(] You got half the definition correct...
So let me get this straight (pun intended).
If Larry Craig were a Democrat there would be no mock horror?
http://www.thoughttheater.com/2007/09/senator_larry_craig_takes_a_new_stance.php
GOP to Larry Craig: Forget about a mulligan on this one, Bud. We can't handle one more anti-gay, gay Republican being exposed. It's killing us with our homophobic base. So get back into the closet, or stall, Larry, because you're toast.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
So let me get this straight (pun intended).
If Larry Craig were a Democrat there would be no mock horror?
Bet you laugh at these!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_YzbODb9To
http://jonaderks.wordpress.com/2007/03/19/david-letterman-bill-clinton/
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
So let me get this straight (pun intended).
If Larry Craig were a Democrat there would be no mock horror?
If you don't think that the religious 'right' would've been whipped into a self-righteous furor over a story like that, you're kidding yourself.
It would be great...you could continue to bring it up 10-20 years after the fact in an attempt to deflect criticism of <insert name>'s <insert scandal>.
'...but Clinton...' sound familiar?
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
quote:
Saying it's a gay issue implies it is something wrong in the gay community which is totally false.
Man sex in public bathrooms isn't a problem to you?
quote:
The problem lies in the straight community and the desire to label homosexuals as sick or perverted, hence you have people like Craig who gets married but tries to get their desires out in other forms. I think Freud would have something to say about men who think gay sex is disgusting and then turn around and look for it in filthy and disgusting bathrooms.
I think he advocated the recreational use of cocaine too. Care to quote Freud some more?
quote:
And straight men don't frequent bathrooms for anonymous sex with other men, but given the chance they'd sure as he** frequent bathrooms, woods, parks or whatever if they could have anonymous sex with women. It's a man issue.
Right...it's a "man" issue.[xx(] You got half the definition correct...
You aren't addressing my points; you are obfuscating.
You aren't catching activists in the gay community in the bathrooms but closeted Republicans.
And male teenagers perfected the art of having sex in parks, so don't put this issue solely on gay men.
And look at percentages (I've posted them on this forum before) and you'll find that the majority of men arrested in cruising areas are actually married (ala Craig). That definitely says something about society (hint: The Religious Right is wrong).
quote:
Originally posted by grahambino
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
So let me get this straight (pun intended).
If Larry Craig were a Democrat there would be no mock horror?
If you don't think that the religious 'right' would've been whipped into a self-righteous furor over a story like that, you're kidding yourself.
It would be great...you could continue to bring it up 10-20 years after the fact in an attempt to deflect criticism of <insert name>'s <insert scandal>.
'...but Clinton...' sound familiar?
Grahmbino, you are missing my point- the Dems love to slaughter a Rep for such indiscretions, where's the horror when it's one of their own? I didn't say a word about the Christian Right- yeah they are self-righteous as hell. That's a major DUH!
quote:
Originally posted by okiebybirth
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
quote:
Saying it's a gay issue implies it is something wrong in the gay community which is totally false.
Man sex in public bathrooms isn't a problem to you?
quote:
The problem lies in the straight community and the desire to label homosexuals as sick or perverted, hence you have people like Craig who gets married but tries to get their desires out in other forms. I think Freud would have something to say about men who think gay sex is disgusting and then turn around and look for it in filthy and disgusting bathrooms.
I think he advocated the recreational use of cocaine too. Care to quote Freud some more?
quote:
And straight men don't frequent bathrooms for anonymous sex with other men, but given the chance they'd sure as he** frequent bathrooms, woods, parks or whatever if they could have anonymous sex with women. It's a man issue.
Right...it's a "man" issue.[xx(] You got half the definition correct...
You aren't addressing my points; you are obfuscating.
You aren't catching activists in the gay community in the bathrooms but closeted Republicans.
And male teenagers perfected the art of having sex in parks, so don't put this issue solely on gay men.
And look at percentages (I've posted them on this forum before) and you'll find that the majority of men arrested in cruising areas are actually married (ala Craig). That definitely says something about society (hint: The Religious Right is wrong).
I'd love to see the statistical "numbers" on this one. I'm guessing they're not coming from something most of us would consider to be a reasonable source. And what is it that the Evil Religious Right is so incorrect about?
Catching a gay activist engaging in sex in a bathroom is hardly news....I bet they get a medal or something......Like a small rainbow pin or the like.....
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
Catching a gay activist engaging in sex in a bathroom is hardly news....I bet they get a medal or something......Like a small rainbow pin or the like.....
Shouldn't you be out with Fred Phelps screaming at someone's funeral about now ?
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
I'd love to see the statistical "numbers" on this one. I'm guessing they're not coming from something most of us would consider to be a reasonable source. And what is it that the Evil Religious Right is so incorrect about?
ST. LOUIS — Back in the 1960s, long before a U.S. senator got busted for lewd behavior in an airport bathroom, it was called "the tearoom trade."
But social researchers knew almost nothing about it.
So a young graduate student at Washington University in St. Louis started digging. He spent months hanging out in the public restrooms of St. Louis' Forest Park. He wanted to observe the tearoom trade in action: men who met for brief, anonymous homosexual trysts in public. He wanted to discover what compelled them.
Laud Humphreys' research was pioneering. It shattered stereotypes. It also cost him his job.
Humphreys discovered the majority of men visiting "tearooms" were married and generally upstanding citizens. Many did not think of themselves as gay or bisexual. In his groundbreaking 1970 Ph.D dissertation, "Tearoom Trade: Impersonal Sex in Personal Places," Humphreys detailed the trade's constant rituals: shoe-tapping and reaching under the stalls as a covert way to seek out willing partners.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/26263150D474C4EE8625734800098FDC?OpenDocument
I'm sorry I thought someone said something about numbers and statistics...silly me.
quote:
Originally posted by okiebybirth
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
Catching a gay activist engaging in sex in a bathroom is hardly news....I bet they get a medal or something......Like a small rainbow pin or the like.....
Shouldn't you be out with Fred Phelps screaming at someone's funeral about now ?
Nope....I support the troops......
Some numbers for you IP. An unscientific study of a small sample, but some numbers nonetheless:
quote:
Humphreys conducted in-depth interviews with 100 men. Half of those he interviewed in the bathrooms. The other half he interviewed using clever and controversial methods. He would write down the men's license plate numbers and track them down a year later. He donned a disguise and talked to the men under the pretense of a social health survey. The men presumably never learned they were part of Humphreys' study.
Humphreys found that 54 percent of the men were married and living with their wives. He found 38 percent considered themselves neither bisexual nor homosexual. The men wanted a sexual release that was quick and would not endanger their standing with their family or society. Just 14 percent of the men identified themselves as living-in-the-open homosexuals.
And as a side note, I'm a very socially liberal individual, but
quote:
Many did not think of themselves as gay or bisexual.
I'm sorry, if you meet another man
anywhere for sex you are homosexual by definition. It may not be your primary orientation or whatever, but certainly it has to be classified as a homosexual tendency to have sex with other men. If you do not view your homosexual sex as an indication of homosexuality, perhaps your self image is a little messed up.
and straight men have places to hook up with women for casual sex, they are called dance clubs. We all have our rituals - some involve shoe tapping and under the stall reaching. Others dancing, alcohol and going back to someones apartment. [;)]
(I was going to make a roofitini joke but that would be totally inappropriate)
M'kay, Britney really screwed up on the VMA's last night and we are still talking about Larry Craig, why?
"Oh, Jethuth Chritht, quit picking on Larry Craig."
(http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/901/9012_im_gay.jpg)
Go back to your cage Mr. Slave or I'll get Mr. Lemmiwinks...