Who has worse timing, BOK announcing (//%22http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=134943%22) hundreds of layoffs on the eve of Labor Day as its non-profit arm stumps to increase taxes, or the Bush Administration accusing (//%22http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/08/20070828-2.html%22) Shiite Iran of planning a holocast as hundreds of thousands of Shias make their way to Karbala to venerate patron saint Imam Hussain (PBUH)?
Well, I'd have to vote for Bush on that one.
Layoffs are an unfortunate part of doing business. If layoffs were made more difficult, companies would be much less likely to hire in the first place. In a well run business, they will lead to a more dynamic and healthier company that should be able to grow and hire those people and more back in the future.
But it is ironic that they decided to lay them off the day after labor day. Seems like a really dumb PR move to me.
Wow. They're so similar, how can we ever decide who's the bigger devil.
(http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Unhappy/you-fool-038.gif)
I am going with the Bushiites, because no one gives a crap about the American worker . . .
Tim, I would take exception to the insinuation that BOK does not care about their workers. In the first place, there is never a "good" time to have to make a tough business decision. Having said that, BOK is not unlike many companies in the financial services business that have seen a significant change in their operating landscape in recent weeks. Some of these changes are completely out of our control but have to be dealt with nonetheless. BOK's announcement of a 5% reduction is much smaller than many of our peers and reflects that we have been more conservative in our approach than mnay others. Still, this 5% (200 systemwide) is made up of real people that were not only co-workers but in many cases long time personal friends. Understanding the realities of the market never makes this any easier.
Please do me a favor, don't try to trivialize this action by comparing it to things that are not analogous in any sense of the word. That is insensitive and unfair to all of those impacted... both directly and indirectly.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
I am going with the Bushiites, because no one gives a crap about the American worker . . .
Wow, that's a surprise. Who would have guessed you would have rapped Bush...
quote:
Originally posted by bokworker
Tim, I would take exception to the insinuation that BOK does not care about their workers. In the first place, there is never a "good" time to have to make a tough business decision. Having said that, BOK is not unlike many companies in the financial services business that have seen a significant change in their operating landscape in recent weeks. Some of these changes are completely out of our control but have to be dealt with nonetheless. BOK's announcement of a 5% reduction is much smaller than many of our peers and reflects that we have been more conservative in our approach than mnay others. Still, this 5% (200 systemwide) is made up of real people that were not only co-workers but in many cases long time personal friends. Understanding the realities of the market never makes this any easier.
Please do me a favor, don't try to trivialize this action by comparing it to things that are not analogous in any sense of the word. That is insensitive and unfair to all of those impacted... both directly and indirectly.
Are those layoffs in the Tulsa area those that clicked on the
Our River Tax Opt-Out Button??
[xx(]
Friendly Bear..... let me say this as nicely as I can. You are completely wrong in your thought process. I have no idea what if any action was taken or not taken by those that were impacted by BOK's decision. I can tell you that there are those that did click the opt-out option that were not impacted. Get off it. Your conspiracy tin-hat crap towards my employer is at best annoying.
Well, you let your co-workers know that when everyone else was struggling against me, I was for doing something to help lenders. Let your friends know that when everyone else was saying 'tough luck' to folk who lost their homes, I was on their side. What trivializes the issue is letting folk go just shy of getting their pensions. What demeans the work they did would be to lay them off while your boss's charity is ponying up millions for parks.
You let them know that.
Hold up there Timmy... its demeaning that BOk is laying people off because a majority owner gives money to charity? Would this be somehow better if he laid them off and horded his money? The George Kaiser foundation is one of, if not THE top philanthropic organizations in the state. He did not amass his wealth NOR GROW THE COMPANY TO THE POINT OF EMPLOYING THOUSANDS by making bad business decisions.
People need to learn that without employers and business, they wouldn't have jobs at all. If you do not like being a cog in the machine, go start your own business and control your own cogs. Sorry, but everyone I know that is affiliated with BOk says they are treated fairly. A financial downturn obviously can lead to layoffs in the financial sector. With any luck, they will back in the game in a matter of months as the sector picks back up.
and BTW, doing my part with a mortgage, personal account, and a business account with BOk. But I would still vote against bailing out any risky loans BOk made that went south... risk money to make money, and if you lose it, you lose it. Lets hope BOk continues to grow, their portfolio of sub primes is much more insulated than most of the nation and I'm guessing George will leverage that into expansion.
Thank you CF, I'll let your response stand without adding to it.
Just for the record Timmy, absolutely nothing that you mentioned or offered as "helping" the situation in previous threads would have changed what happened. The reality is, if we had been as aggressive as some of our competitors over the last couple of years then the result would have been even worse.
My friend who was cut in this round of layoffs got 10 weeks severance from BOK.
He feels like he was treated fairly and won't have a problem finding something else in ten weeks.
Not many companies will provide that much severance.
Still bad timing. I know that sometimes a company has to do what a company has to do to survive, got it. Ten weeks is not that bad severence pay, copy that. How many were this close to retiring? How about them? How many were offered other positions in the Co. to keep their time served?
And helping the market may not have helped BOK directly, but if it helped the market stabilize would that not have helped? These layoffs are directly related to the credit crunch, right?
Me and the liberal Dems, boy, who woulda thunk it? Even if Bush does not nuke Tehran, it still looks like the end of the world.
The end of the world Tim? Not even close, but your concern is noted and appreciated.
quote:
Originally posted by bokworker
Friendly Bear..... let me say this as nicely as I can. You are completely wrong in your thought process. I have no idea what if any action was taken or not taken by those that were impacted by BOK's decision. I can tell you that there are those that did click the opt-out option that were not impacted. Get off it. Your conspiracy tin-hat crap towards my employer is at best annoying.
Hmmmmmh..... So BOK has re-activated their
Tax-Me-More Opt Out Button, used sooooooo successfully during Vision 2025??
BOK Tulsa County employees to receive a mandatory Kaiser River Tax Vote Yes yard sign unless they click on that
Opt-Out-of-BOK-Job button??
Hmmmmmh....?
[:P]
Friendly Bear, I did click the Opt out button and am still employed. I do live in the Tulsa area. Thank you for your concern.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Still bad timing. I know that sometimes a company has to do what a company has to do to survive, got it. Ten weeks is not that bad severence pay, copy that. How many were this close to retiring? How about them? How many were offered other positions in the Co. to keep their time served?
And helping the market may not have helped BOK directly, but if it helped the market stabilize would that not have helped? These layoffs are directly related to the credit crunch, right?
Me and the liberal Dems, boy, who woulda thunk it? Even if Bush does not nuke Tehran, it still looks like the end of the world.
This layoff is no different than Wil-Tel, McDonnel-Douglas, nor hundreds of other companies who have lay-offs around the country every year as far as tenured people losing a job.
Does look odd on the surface when a large share-holder is committing $100 mil or so in philanthropic gifts to the community, but that's from his personal wealth he has amassed by providing viable services to the community through his businesses and thousands of jobs to people across the state.
I don't really know how you could define "good" timing when it comes to layoffs. Yes, some are worse than others. Worst time would obviously be right before Christmas. At least everyone has a chance to find something before then.
In my friend's case, his mother had just passed away last Friday. I doubt HR had a single inkling of that. He's still got a positive attitude about it. For me, it would have been a pretty big load to handle. You can either sit there and cry, or get up and move forward.
Everything I know about BOK is positive, and I do not think less of the co for this action. I hope everyone gets new jobs and do not panic. You are right, there is no good time for this and I sincerely apologize for discussing the matter in this fashion.