My friends in Tulsa's Latin community say that businesses that cater to Latinos have recently experienced a sharp slow down in business. Businesses that were robust until recently have begun to cut back operations. It will be interesting to see if these anecdotal reports are reflected in Tulsa's sales tax receipts.
In your conversations - have they attributed the slow-down to any specific factor?
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
My friends in Tulsa's Latin community say that businesses that cater to Latinos have recently experienced a sharp slow down in business. Businesses that were robust until recently have begun to cut back operations. It will be interesting to see if these anecdotal reports are reflected in Tulsa's sales tax receipts.
It was reflected in a drop in sales tax revenue:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070722_1_A21_hCool52874
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2007/070722_A21_hCool52874_taxmap21.jpg)
I'm sure the drop in sales tax revenue had nothing to do with the weather...
My friends with large numbers of Hispanic/Latin customers say the same thing. Business is way, way down.
They say that the new INS reporting for misdemeanor traffic stops has caused vast portions of the community have decided to move to friendlier cities.
It should come as no surprise to anyone that there would be economic consequences to this decision.
quote:
Originally posted by restored2x
In your conversations - have they attributed the slow-down to any specific factor?
The new immigration law in Oklahoma.
How were sales tax figures for OKC?
They had weather too. If it hadn't rained it would have been high nineties temps and you would have said the weather too.
Jenks and Bixby having the highest drop makes me wonder. What was so special about them last year at this time?
Sorry waterboy try again......But I have plenty of frineds in various trades from Landscaping to Concrete Construction to Carwashing and Home Building.....All there buisness was way off due to weather......And guess what when you cant work you dont buy materials....Can you figure it out from there.....
Our suburbs are growing. With that will come their sales tax growth that will continue to take away from Tulsa's sales taxes. But with projects like Tulsa Hills, Tulsa sales taxes should level out if not increase. At least thats what I hope for. Bixby has a huge retail shopping center being built. Once it opens it will be another hit to Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
quote:
Originally posted by restored2x
In your conversations - have they attributed the slow-down to any specific factor?
The new immigration law in Oklahoma.
Bull$hit.....They could not work (Due To Weather) therefore they did not have the money to spend.....
Plus - if they build the Super Target in BA - the Tulsa Super Target will lose out on some business from BA shoppers (The other Super Target is close to BA but in Tulsa, right?)
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
How were sales tax figures for OKC?
They had weather too. If it hadn't rained it would have been high nineties temps and you would have said the weather too.
Jenks and Bixby having the highest drop makes me wonder. What was so special about them last year at this time?
Bixby was
UP 21.8%.
Some rudimentary math (don't know how correct this is) by adding and subtracting various gains and losses shows an overall gain of 1/2% in the areas sampled.
Considering that Jenks isn't exactly a haven for Hispanics, what is the largest single attraction there? Riverwalk Crossing. With all the rain, many people didn't spend time kibitzing outside.
However, looking at rises in sales tax in Sand Springs (Keystone), Muskogee (Ft. Gibson/Tenkiller), Claremore (Oologah), Owasso (Oologah); one could conclude that people were heading to area lakes. Still doesn't explain the spike in Bixby or Coweta. Bixby might have enjoyed more revenue from the produce business considering the bumper crops that rain brought with it this year.
Anyone saying business is way off due to the immigration laws is purely anecdotal and not scientific. People still have to eat, get cars fixed, etc. I've not noticed a great exodus from Tulsa.
As usual, the sky is falling on Hometown.
Conan, my little brother, read my post and read your post. You are the one prone to overstatement. You need to learn how to weigh your words.
It will take a little more time to see how recent developments are going to flesh out.
The Bixby increase was an outlier because the city recently instituted a sales-tax increase to help pay off debts and other improvements.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
The Bixby increase was an outlier because the city recently instituted a sales-tax increase to help pay off debts and other improvements.
That's a heck of an increase to raise an additional $133K in revenue.
Careful Conan using logic and common sense on a thread started by someone with a high dingus factor......Makes you wonder if they really live here or have lived here.....
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Considering that Jenks isn't exactly a haven for Hispanics, what is the largest single attraction there? Riverwalk Crossing. With all the rain, many people didn't spend time kibitzing outside.
Actually not true, while I agree Riverwalk and rain being the main reason for the decline in Jenks, during the day when all of the office workers are out of Jenks the city is heavily Hispanic with all the construction workers employed in town. But I will concede that rain has a large impact there as well.
What is bullsh*t Breadburner? The fact that I have a several Latin friends that own businesses and they have told me their business is down sharply. Me telling you that these owners believe it's the new immigration law? Me wondering if we will see a decrease in sales tax receipts? These are anecdotal reports and questions. There's nothing here to bring on a rapid increase in your blood pressure.
Now if I had said that Oklahoma has passed a law that is deeply offensive to its most vigorous demographic, that Oklahoma has killed the golden goose, that would be an overstatement. But I won't go that far. For all I know members of the Aryan Brotherhood will take up the slack.
Far be it from me to upset the law abiding (inflated charitable contributions, speeding, pilfering from work, subprime mortgage capital of the U.S., nation's leaders in child abuse, most women incarcerated, surrounded by chronic hunger, churchgoing hypocrite, uneducated hick, descendants of economic refugees) fine citizenry of Oklahoma. After all these are my people and Tulsa is my blessed hometown.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
What is bullsh*t Breadburner? The fact that I have a several Latin friends that own businesses and they have told me their business is down sharply. Me telling you that these owners believe it's the new immigration law? Me wondering if we will see a decrease in sales tax receipts? These are anecdotal reports and questions. There's nothing here to bring on a rapid increase in your blood pressure.
Now if I had said that Oklahoma has passed a law that is deeply offensive to its most vigorous demographic, that Oklahoma has killed the golden goose, that would be an overstatement. But I won't go that far. For all I know members of the Aryan Brotherhood will take up the slack.
Far be it from me to upset the law abiding (inflated charitable contributions, speeding, pilfering from work, subprime mortgage capital of the U.S., nation's leaders in child abuse, most women incarcerated, surrounded by chronic hunger, churchgoing hypocrite, uneducated hick, descendants of economic refugees) fine citizenry of Oklahoma. After all these are my people and Tulsa is my blessed hometown.
Looks like overstatement.....Tulsa Your hometown..I doubt it.....Your gear is up and locked.....
What is this thread about?
Immigration?
Illegals?
Tax revenue?
Racism?
All of the above?
Eso sí es bien frustrante. Uno trata de ser amigable, pero si uno tiene una opinión diferente, viene las acusaciones de racista. ¡Qué pendejada!
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Now if I had said that Oklahoma has passed a law that is deeply offensive to its most vigorous demographic, that Oklahoma has killed the golden goose,
You forgot to say most exploited, under-paid demographic.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Now if I had said that Oklahoma has passed a law that is deeply offensive to its most vigorous demographic, that Oklahoma has killed the golden goose,
You forgot to say most exploited, under-paid demographic.
YOU forgot to add often times illegally present, non-tax paying, and resource pilfering democraphic
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Now if I had said that Oklahoma has passed a law that is deeply offensive to its most vigorous demographic, that Oklahoma has killed the golden goose,
You forgot to say most exploited, under-paid demographic.
YOU forgot to add often times illegally present, non-tax paying, and resource pilfering democraphic
Ooops, my bad. [;)]
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
What is bullsh*t Breadburner? The fact that I have a several Latin friends that own businesses and they have told me their business is down sharply. Me telling you that these owners believe it's the new immigration law? Me wondering if we will see a decrease in sales tax receipts? These are anecdotal reports and questions. There's nothing here to bring on a rapid increase in your blood pressure.
Now if I had said that Oklahoma has passed a law that is deeply offensive to its most vigorous demographic, that Oklahoma has killed the golden goose, that would be an overstatement. But I won't go that far. For all I know members of the Aryan Brotherhood will take up the slack.
Far be it from me to upset the law abiding (inflated charitable contributions, speeding, pilfering from work, subprime mortgage capital of the U.S., nation's leaders in child abuse, most women incarcerated, surrounded by chronic hunger, churchgoing hypocrite, uneducated hick, descendants of economic refugees) fine citizenry of Oklahoma. After all these are my people and Tulsa is my blessed hometown.
You're cutting with broad strokes, bud. Watch your tone please--you're liable to offend more than you intend.
I'm curious. What struck your nerve Floyd? I'm from Tulsa and I know my people inside out.
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
Sorry waterboy try again......But I have plenty of frineds in various trades from Landscaping to Concrete Construction to Carwashing and Home Building.....All there buisness was way off due to weather......And guess what when you cant work you dont buy materials....Can you figure it out from there.....
I have friends in both those occupations. Somehow they find a way to buy food, visit restaurants, drink at bars and go to movies. Could be they did like most laborer/contractors and save some money for rainy days.
I don't know about Floyd - but
Far be it from me to upset the law abiding (inflated charitable contributions, speeding, pilfering from work, subprime mortgage capital of the U.S., nation's leaders in child abuse, most women incarcerated, surrounded by chronic hunger, churchgoing hypocrite, uneducated hick, descendants of economic refugees) fine citizenry of Oklahoma. After all these are my people and Tulsa is my blessed hometown.
that sounds an awful lot like, "If you don't agree with me, you are one of these - or part of the Aryan Brotherhood." To infer that all who disagree with your viewpoint on illegal aliens, immigration reform, or how the new law affects local tax revenue, are racists is "painting with broad strokes".
It is unfair to use those tactics. You are painting all as white trash KKK members. A discussion is about the issues and opinions - not name-calling (from either side). That only gets on people's nerves and riles up more of the same.
quote:
Originally posted by restored2x
I don't know about Floyd - but
Far be it from me to upset the law abiding (inflated charitable contributions, speeding, pilfering from work, subprime mortgage capital of the U.S., nation's leaders in child abuse, most women incarcerated, surrounded by chronic hunger, churchgoing hypocrite, uneducated hick, descendants of economic refugees) fine citizenry of Oklahoma. After all these are my people and Tulsa is my blessed hometown.
that sounds an awful lot like, "If you don't agree with me, you are one of these - or part of the Aryan Brotherhood." To infer that all who disagree with your viewpoint on illegal aliens, immigration reform, or how the new law affects local tax revenue, are racists is "painting with broad strokes".
It is unfair to use those tactics. You are painting all as white trash KKK members. A discussion is about the issues and opinions - not name-calling (from either side). That only gets on people's nerves and riles up more of the same.
Welcome to Hometown's world R2X.
HT spent 30 years living out in San Francisco.
Need I say more?
quote:
Originally posted by restored2x
To infer that all who disagree with your viewpoint on illegal aliens, immigration reform, or how the new law affects local tax revenue...
I think you can have differing points of view on immigration reform and illegal aliens, but I think your being pretty naive if you think chasing several thousand laborers and consumers out of Tulsa won't hurt the our bottom line. From what I hear, it already has.
This is only going to leave more slack for the rest of us to pick up. It's a fair bet that the haters that prompted this change won't be too excited about paying more taxes. Talk about unintended consequences. [xx(]
I'll do my part for the city. I'm going to eat dinner at Senior Tequila's tonight. Those guys are cooking meals that other American's won't cook, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let you bunch of hate filled, hatemongers chase my cheap mexican dinners out of town. Shame on you.
People used to tell me I was wasting my time studying a dead language, but now it turns out we have an entire Latin community.
Ave, amici Latini!
!Adios!
This conversation is a no-win discussion. There doesn't even seem to be any acceptable middle ground. You're either in agreement with these guys, or you're a racist hater. It's a shame.
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little
quote:
Originally posted by restored2x
To infer that all who disagree with your viewpoint on illegal aliens, immigration reform, or how the new law affects local tax revenue...
I think you can have differing points of view on immigration reform and illegal aliens, but I think your being pretty naive if you think chasing several thousand laborers and consumers out of Tulsa won't hurt the our bottom line. From what I hear, it already has.
This is only going to leave more slack for the rest of us to pick up. It's a fair bet that the haters that prompted this change won't be too excited about paying more taxes. Talk about unintended consequences. [xx(]
If I am a hater because I want our immigration laws respected, because I am genuinely concerned about the spiralling costs for health other public services, and because I am tired of hearing stories of drunken illegal aliens killing Americans in car wrecks or the committing of other violent crimes, so be it.
R2X, remember and take solace, Hometown and CF's side in this debate is the same as Geraldo Rivera.
We aren't having a debate on immigration we are talking about sales tax revenues in Tulsa.
Let's check back in a couple of months and see what the trends look like.
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little
quote:
Originally posted by restored2x
To infer that all who disagree with your viewpoint on illegal aliens, immigration reform, or how the new law affects local tax revenue...
I think you can have differing points of view on immigration reform and illegal aliens, but I think your being pretty naive if you think chasing several thousand laborers and consumers out of Tulsa won't hurt the our bottom line. From what I hear, it already has.
This is only going to leave more slack for the rest of us to pick up. It's a fair bet that the haters that prompted this change won't be too excited about paying more taxes. Talk about unintended consequences. [xx(]
If I am a hater because I want our immigration laws respected, because I am genuinely concerned about the spiralling costs for health other public services, and because I am tired of hearing stories of drunken illegal aliens killing Americans in car wrecks or the committing of other violent crimes, so be it.
R2X, remember and take solace, Hometown and CF's side in this debate is the same as Geraldo Rivera.
And the other side is Michael Savage and Sean Hannity, your point?
There are idiots on both sides and the hate spewed from some on the right is shocking.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by restored2x
I don't know about Floyd - but
Far be it from me to upset the law abiding (inflated charitable contributions, speeding, pilfering from work, subprime mortgage capital of the U.S., nation's leaders in child abuse, most women incarcerated, surrounded by chronic hunger, churchgoing hypocrite, uneducated hick, descendants of economic refugees) fine citizenry of Oklahoma. After all these are my people and Tulsa is my blessed hometown.
that sounds an awful lot like, "If you don't agree with me, you are one of these - or part of the Aryan Brotherhood." To infer that all who disagree with your viewpoint on illegal aliens, immigration reform, or how the new law affects local tax revenue, are racists is "painting with broad strokes".
It is unfair to use those tactics. You are painting all as white trash KKK members. A discussion is about the issues and opinions - not name-calling (from either side). That only gets on people's nerves and riles up more of the same.
Welcome to Hometown's world R2X.
HT spent 30 years living out in San Francisco.
Need I say more?
And you never went anywhere Conan. You can brag to your grandchildren about it.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
I'll do my part for the city. I'm going to eat dinner at Senior Tequila's tonight. Those guys are cooking meals that other American's won't cook, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let you bunch of hate filled, hatemongers chase my cheap mexican dinners out of town. Shame on you.
get the fajitas del mar... mmmmm
My mother drew a circle in the front yard and put me on a leash. I'm still there.
You guys make it hard to have a decent conversation. Let me ask two questions and see if anyone can respond without attitude.
1. How are sales tax collections in OKC and the rest of the state? Hispanics are all over the state. When I see a wide discrepancy like Bixby up, Jenks down it raises questions. It rained both places. In fact it rained all over the freaking state Burner. Why did some areas increase, some stayed level and some decreased? I don't believe that spending follows squall lines.
2. Would anyone really be surprised to find out that Hispanics have started leaving communities that express enmity towards them? Legal or not makes no difference.
Edit: I just noticed that OKC was added to the map and its up. Guess it didn't rain hard enough there.
Note: when do you people work? I barely have time to post in the early am and some in the pm, but some of you folks are full time posters with unlimited search time apparently.
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelBates
People used to tell me I was wasting my time studying a dead language, but now it turns out we have an entire Latin community.
Ave, amici Latini!
yes, but apparently it hasn't outgrown the native smartass community.
quote:
Originally posted by restored2x
!Adios!
This conversation is a no-win discussion. There doesn't even seem to be any acceptable middle ground. You're either in agreement with these guys, or you're a racist hater. It's a shame.
Why on earth would you think that our Hispanic and Latino community would see things your way? Put yourself in someone else's shoes for goodness sake. This town is targeting people they know: friends, neighbors, and family. How would you feel?
There are thousands of people out there who think that people like you are motivated by nothing more than bigotry. From what I'm hearing, quite a lot of them are voting with their feet and leaving Tulsa for friendlier U.S. communities, places that don't cave when people like you start hollering indignantly.
Go ahead and dance your righteous little "ullegul" dance while you can, because it does absolutely nothing to "solve" our national dilemma and it is apparently doing harm to Tulsa...something you'll invariably blame on somebody else.
Nice work there, champ. What's next? Workforce "camps" for the homeless? Forehead tatoos for ex cons?[xx(]
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little
quote:
Originally posted by restored2x
!Adios!
This conversation is a no-win discussion. There doesn't even seem to be any acceptable middle ground. You're either in agreement with these guys, or you're a racist hater. It's a shame.
Why on earth would you think that our Hispanic and Latino community would see things your way? Put yourself in someone else's shoes for goodness sake. This town is targeting people they know: friends, neighbors, and family. How would you feel?
There are thousands of people out there who think that people like you are motivated by nothing more than bigotry. From what I'm hearing, quite a lot of them are voting with their feet and leaving Tulsa for friendlier U.S. communities, places that don't cave when people like you start hollering indignantly.
Go ahead and dance your righteous little "ullegul" dance while you can, because it does absolutely nothing to "solve" our national dilemma and it is apparently doing harm to Tulsa...something you'll invariably blame on somebody else.
Nice work there, champ. What's next? Workforce "camps" for the homeless? Forehead tatoos for ex cons?[xx(]
I'm a bit confused as to what Restored2x said that inspired this diatribe.
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
QuoteIf I am a hater because I want our immigration laws respected, because I am genuinely concerned about the spiralling costs for health other public services, and because I am tired of hearing stories of drunken illegal aliens killing Americans in car wrecks or the committing of other violent crimes, so be it.
R2X, remember and take solace, Hometown and CF's side in this debate is the same as Geraldo Rivera.
Wanting immigration laws enforced does not make you a hater. But expecting your city council and local police to do a job that the feds refuse to do makes us all look like a bunch of bigots, stupid ones at that.
And if you cared at all about spiralling health care and public service costs then you'd know that illegal aliens aren't the problem...so don't give me that cr*p. Where's your proof?
I've let you righteous types go on and on about how "illegals" are bad for 'Merica. And it looks like you guys have got what you wanted...an exodus...from Tulsa anyway. It's exactly what we don't need. That's gonna hurt us and I want to hear you guys take ownership for it. I want you up at the microphone explaining that, since you chased off several thousand taxpayers, we all now need to pay a higher rate, and why we're all going to have to start paying more than our neighbors for just about everything. Are you willing to accept responsibility for that?
You can have your principled discussions about what this country needs to do about immigration policy, but Tulsa can't solve this country's problems by itself. That's just dumb.
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little
quote:
Originally posted by restored2x
!Adios!
This conversation is a no-win discussion. There doesn't even seem to be any acceptable middle ground. You're either in agreement with these guys, or you're a racist hater. It's a shame.
Why on earth would you think that our Hispanic and Latino community would see things your way? Put yourself in someone else's shoes for goodness sake. This town is targeting people they know: friends, neighbors, and family. How would you feel?
There are thousands of people out there who think that people like you are motivated by nothing more than bigotry. From what I'm hearing, quite a lot of them are voting with their feet and leaving Tulsa for friendlier U.S. communities, places that don't cave when people like you start hollering indignantly.
Go ahead and dance your righteous little "ullegul" dance while you can, because it does absolutely nothing to "solve" our national dilemma and it is apparently doing harm to Tulsa...something you'll invariably blame on somebody else.
Nice work there, champ. What's next? Workforce "camps" for the homeless? Forehead tatoos for ex cons?[xx(]
if getting rid of the illegals does "harm" to tulsa, then I say lets get busy with the harming.
the other day a builder told my brother in law that his house might be delayed "if those labor laws take hold"
man, **** that dude. what a slimeball. every one of his workers were illegal and he deserves to get what is coming to him, but he shouldn't make his customers suffer for his bad decisions. there are plenty of legal workers who can do construction.
Weather has cost us over $24,000 in lost revenues from one location due to rain causing cancellations of 12 events there. Also cost the concessionaires another $6,000 in lost revenue from sales of concession items, which where not purchased for resale.
Cost me $3,600 in income alone thus far this season, having select dates on my schedule canceled.
I relate to and agree with the weather causing lack of work/income and spending. It has affected me and several of our staff directly.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
QuoteI'm a bit confused as to what Restored2x said that inspired this diatribe.
He wants a "civilized" discussion about events that are harming real people; I think a little passion is in order.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
if getting rid of the illegals does "harm" to tulsa, then I say lets get busy with the harming.
Tulsa suffers and the country continues on, business as usual. That's a steep price to pay for a town that is struggling.
quote:
Originally posted by AMP
Weather has cost us over $24,000 in lost revenues from one location due to rain causing cancellations of 12 events there. Also cost the concessionaires another $6,000 in lost revenue from sales of concession items, which where not purchased for resale.
Cost me $3,600 in income alone thus far this season, having select dates on my schedule canceled.
I relate to and agree with the weather causing lack of work/income and spending. It has affected me and several of our staff directly.
Facts and Common sense....God &amn I hate that....
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
QuoteI'm a bit confused as to what Restored2x said that inspired this diatribe.
He wants a "civilized" discussion about events that are harming real people; I think a little passion is in order.
I don't think passion negates civility.
No, and you have been and always are "civil" Sgrizzle. But a lot of folks have not been and a little talk back from Mr. Little's perspective is overdue.
I question how many people can really leave Tulsa. It is not easy for working people to pick up and move. I think a lot of people may be afraid and staying at home. That might eventually lead to pent up demand. I'm not confident a large number of people have actually been able to leave. I do have the impression that rumors are rampant in the community and there is a lot of fear. You don't want a situation where people are afraid to talk to the police.
I think Chicken Piddle should stop squawkin' and start walking. Vote with your feet and join your amigos on the amnesty train to a sanctuary city somewhere else. Better hurry, it's about to pull out of the station. Wages are going up(minimum wage increase took effect) and wage depressing illegal workers are leaving in droves. You're doing fine Oklahoma. We might even stop seeing headlines like this: Immigrant jailed in sex case
Daniel Ramirez: He avoided being turned over to immigration officials.
By LEIGH BELL World Staff Writer
7/20/2007
A man in the country illegally is accused of molesting a 16-year-old boy at a swimming pool.
An illegal Mexican immigrant was in jail Thursday after being arrested the day before on a complaint of sexual battery against a 16-year-old boy at a community swimming pool, according to the Tulsa Police Department.
It's the second time the same man has been in jail on sex complaints, but he somehow avoided being turned over to immigration officials the first time.
Daniel P. Ramirez, 39, has a detainer from Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which means this time he could face deportation after the criminal complaint is resolved.
Federal immigration officials confirmed Thursday that Ramirez is in the country illegally.
Ramirez touched the victim's "buttocks and chest without consent," and the man "was touching his genitals through clothes while talking to victim," according to the police department's arrest report.
The victim did not appear to know Ramirez, a police spokesman said Thursday.
The arrest report shows Ramirez lives in Broken Arrow and works for a Tulsa contractor.
Ramirez was arrested Wednesday afternoon in the area of 7200 S. Atlanta Ave., where he was working on a nearby house, according to police records.
He was booked into jail at 5:20 p.m. on a single sexual battery complaint and out standing court costs related to a previous encounter with the law, according to jail records.
Ramirez was charged less than two years ago with first-degree burglary and sexual battery against an adult female in Broken Arrow, said Maj. Mark Irwin of the Broken Arrow Police Department.
But court records show Ramirez was only convicted for trespassing, a misdemeanor.
Records at the time of the 2005 arrest do not indicate an effort was made to determine the immigration status of Ramirez, Irwin said.
Immigration officials said Thursday there was "no record of a 2005 conviction of this alien."
Immigration checks were not done in the Tulsa County Jail, as they are now, when Ramirez was booked there in August 2005, said Chief Deputy Tim Albin of the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office.
The Sheriff's Office took over jail operations July 1, 2005, and did not begin its current practice of checking immigration status until several months later, Albin said.
Ramirez was being held on a $2,717.40 bond.
"He won't go anywhere until his charges are either resolved or he bonds out and is turned over to ICE (immigration officials)," Albin said.
Illegal immigrants convicted of aggravated felonies are subject to immediate deportation after any related prison sentence is served.
Ramirez approached the 16-year-old victim and made inappropriate statements, according to a police report.
Later, the teenager saw Ramirez near a community pool talking with several young boys, the report says.
"The teenager went over to the suspect, at which time the suspect made inappropriate contact with the victim," according to the report.
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by AMP
Weather has cost us over $24,000 in lost revenues from one location due to rain causing cancellations of 12 events there. Also cost the concessionaires another $6,000 in lost revenue from sales of concession items, which where not purchased for resale.
Cost me $3,600 in income alone thus far this season, having select dates on my schedule canceled.
I relate to and agree with the weather causing lack of work/income and spending. It has affected me and several of our staff directly.
Facts and Common sense....God &amn I hate that....
And yet many communities that had the same or worse weather, like OKC...had increases in sales tax revenue. damn those facts and that common sense.
But if this is really from, as Bollweevil says:
quote:
The new immigration law in Oklahoma.
we should see an overall state decrease and not isolated changes in revenue from town to town. I would imagine that OKC has as many, if not more, Latino businesses than Tulsa...
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
But if this is really from, as Bollweevil says:
quote:
The new immigration law in Oklahoma.
we should see an overall state decrease and not isolated changes in revenue from town to town. I would imagine that OKC has as many, if not more, Latino businesses than Tulsa...
i agree. There is more going on than weather and exiting Hispanics. Each contributed but to what extent, is guessing. I suppose it will take more than one month of figures to see what's really happening.
Waterboy,
That's the fallacy in the supposition that the new immigration laws are causing sales tax revenue to fall in Tulsa.
We have new state-wide laws on immigration, not just Tulsa's enforcement. The labor part of the law penalizing employers came out of our legislature in OKC and is state-wide in scope, not just Tulsa.
Illegal immigrants and employers in OKC are facing the same issue, yet their revenue is up.
I'd say there are a lot of seasonal issues at play. It will be interesting to see the August and September figures. Maybe someone will be kind enough to publish those figures as they come out.
I suspect that on top of weather and illegal exitgration, June-July is pretty typically a big vacation period, particularly with those with school-age kids. With all the weather, many plans probably changed to a time when weather and/or gas might be more favorable. Probably lost out in both regards, however.
Pent up demand for lake time, too.
Then, there were the two 'Woodstock' type events up at Pryor, and other out of town events.
All of which removes people/money from the local.
We might also consider the following:
July 2007 $16,720,350.xx (via TW)
July 2006 $16,934,815.77 +$1,531,558.08 (+9.94%)
July 2005 $15,403,257.69
So, the question may really be why was last year so good?
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
I think Chicken Piddle should stop squawkin' and start walking. Vote with your feet and join your amigos on the amnesty train to a sanctuary city somewhere else. Better hurry, it's about to pull out of the station. Wages are going up(minimum wage increase took effect) and wage depressing illegal workers are leaving in droves. You're doing fine Oklahoma. We might even stop seeing headlines like this: Immigrant jailed in sex case
That's right Double A, immigrants are just a bunch of job-stealing pedophiles bent on destroying this perfect system...whatever, man. Seems like half the time you care about the working man, and the other half you're demonizing him. At any rate, when you get your new sig, I
don't think it should include Woody Guthrie.
A handful of lazy, bigoted, corrupt politicians found a way to give it all away to the robber barons and still blame brown-skinned, foreign-tongued devils for all our nation's woes...so, what else is new? Once upon a time, there were people who could see through all of that.
Forget all of that for a minute and explain to me how Tulsa is supposed to prosper when every other city in the country will continue to compete with illegal labor? Those "amnesty" cities you deride are...uh...
everybody.
Just what exactly have you "solved"? And if this exodus does end up hurting Tulsa, are
you willing to share responsibility for it?
If your goal was to get brown people out of your field of vision, then congrats, mission accomplished. But if you really want to help the working man, I can't see how you've helped.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
I think Chicken Piddle should stop squawkin' and start walking. Vote with your feet and join your amigos on the amnesty train to a sanctuary city somewhere else.
It happens more often than you think, folks leaving Tulsa. That's how we lost a US representative, Okies multiply like rabbits then flee for more sane, more economically stable, pastures.
Good thing we've got Hispanics to whip up on, helps keep our minds off things.
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
QuoteIf I am a hater because I want our immigration laws respected, because I am genuinely concerned about the spiralling costs for health other public services, and because I am tired of hearing stories of drunken illegal aliens killing Americans in car wrecks or the committing of other violent crimes, so be it.
R2X, remember and take solace, Hometown and CF's side in this debate is the same as Geraldo Rivera.
Wanting immigration laws enforced does not make you a hater. But expecting your city council and local police to do a job that the feds refuse to do makes us all look like a bunch of bigots, stupid ones at that.
And if you cared at all about spiralling health care and public service costs then you'd know that illegal aliens aren't the problem...so don't give me that cr*p. Where's your proof?
I've let you righteous types go on and on about how "illegals" are bad for 'Merica. And it looks like you guys have got what you wanted...an exodus...from Tulsa anyway. It's exactly what we don't need. That's gonna hurt us and I want to hear you guys take ownership for it. I want you up at the microphone explaining that, since you chased off several thousand taxpayers, we all now need to pay a higher rate, and why we're all going to have to start paying more than our neighbors for just about everything. Are you willing to accept responsibility for that?
You can have your principled discussions about what this country needs to do about immigration policy, but Tulsa can't solve this country's problems by itself. That's just dumb.
NO Chicken, what's dumb is ignoring the problem because somone else will not do the job. Tulsans are at the "grass roots" of this problem. Tulsans are up close and personal and often times victims of with the crime that illegal aliens are causing. Tulsans wait in line in our emergency rooms that are filling up with illegals using them as primary care clinics. Tulsans see our local property taxes being used to provide education for illegal alien's children or even anchor babies. If you cannot see these facts of life, you apparently are dumb.
I do not care whose job immigration reform is. I am just happy somebody is trying.
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little
quote:
Originally posted by restored2x
To infer that all who disagree with your viewpoint on illegal aliens, immigration reform, or how the new law affects local tax revenue...
I think you can have differing points of view on immigration reform and illegal aliens, but I think your being pretty naive if you think chasing several thousand laborers and consumers out of Tulsa won't hurt the our bottom line. From what I hear, it already has.
This is only going to leave more slack for the rest of us to pick up. It's a fair bet that the haters that prompted this change won't be too excited about paying more taxes. Talk about unintended consequences. [xx(]
If I am a hater because I want our immigration laws respected, because I am genuinely concerned about the spiralling costs for health other public services, and because I am tired of hearing stories of drunken illegal aliens killing Americans in car wrecks or the committing of other violent crimes, so be it.
R2X, remember and take solace, Hometown and CF's side in this debate is the same as Geraldo Rivera.
And the other side is Michael Savage and Sean Hannity, your point?
There are idiots on both sides and the hate spewed from some on the right is shocking.
I do not know what Savage or Hannity's "side" is on the issue. I can presume that they are in favor of border security based on your statement. I guess that must be a bad thing to you.
Oh, this just in...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070725/NATION/107250079/1001
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Oh, this just in...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070725/NATION/107250079/1001
So in like, 6 years?
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little
quote:
Originally posted by restored2x
!Adios!
This conversation is a no-win discussion. There doesn't even seem to be any acceptable middle ground. You're either in agreement with these guys, or you're a racist hater. It's a shame.
Why on earth would you think that our Hispanic and Latino community would see things your way? Put yourself in someone else's shoes for goodness sake. This town is targeting people they know: friends, neighbors, and family. How would you feel?
There are thousands of people out there who think that people like you are motivated by nothing more than bigotry. From what I'm hearing, quite a lot of them are voting with their feet and leaving Tulsa for friendlier U.S. communities, places that don't cave when people like you start hollering indignantly.
Go ahead and dance your righteous little "ullegul" dance while you can, because it does absolutely nothing to "solve" our national dilemma and it is apparently doing harm to Tulsa...something you'll invariably blame on somebody else.
Nice work there, champ. What's next? Workforce "camps" for the homeless? Forehead tatoos for ex cons?[xx(]
I'm a bit confused as to what Restored2x said that inspired this diatribe.
Yeah -
This is almost funny. The guy doesn't even know me. I haven't taken a stand on either side of this issue. I am not a republican. I don't listen to talk radio. I lived in Latin America (where I was the minority) for ten years and speak spanish fluently. How dare you accuse me of being a hater.
I feel like the guy who tries to break up a fight and clarify what caused the fight, only to get punched in the face for trying to understand.
What I AM saying is that your argument, HT, is weakened by the name-calling. This is not "white against brown". You started a thread on tax revenue being affected by the new state law. When people called you on it - and stated there may be other factors involved - you started calling them racists and worse. That's what ticks me off. That is unfair. You do not know me. I will NOT back down. YOU ARE WRONG!
I am not a hater. I have brown children. Mine - not adopted. This is why you are wrong: YOU are the one spouting hate and racism. You are pre-judging folks. What you are saying you hate and dislike is exactly what you are doing here. You have lost your integrity in my eyes and the eyes of many on this board. Your posts are meaningless drivel.
An exodus of illegals MAY hurt the local economy. It only makes sense: People leave, money leaves. To attribute all of it to one law is not wise. There are other factors.
All anyone has tried to do in this thread is point this out. Maybe you should start a different thread that allows you to express your concerns about immigration law and how it is dealt with here in Tulsa - instead of trying to lure people in with "concerns" about the local economy and tax revenue. That was dishonest and unethical.
Attacking people's "whiteness" is just as bad as attacking someone's blackness, or brown-ness. You, my friend, are deceived and deluded. "Why, some of my best freinds are brown." Xenophobes, my a$$. You have no idea what you are talking about. I'm not an Okie - but am equally as offended as the Okies when you call anyone who disagrees with your post what you called them.
You should be banned. If the show was on the other foot - and someone was trashing a minority on this board - I bet they'd be banned. Equality goes both ways by definition.
^^^^
(http://www.datafox.org/gifs/applause.gif)
Are you surprised? The window of opportunity to simply close the borders is pretty much gone.
Comprehensive is the name of the game. Politically, that's a second term deal. Unless the GOP gets it's head out, it won't pass then either.
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Oh, this just in...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070725/NATION/107250079/1001
Ah, the Reverend Moon's newspaper.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
The Bixby increase was an outlier because the city recently instituted a sales-tax increase to help pay off debts and other improvements.
The Bixby sales tax was increased by 1/4 cent, so I don't think it alone would be enough to explain a 20+% increase in revenues. I believe it has a lot more to do with the opening of a Super Wal-Mart and other businesses in the area. Since Bixby does not have as large a sales tax base as Tulsa and many of the other 'burbs, the additional revenue from a store like the Wal-Mart would alone have a large impact on the percentage change. With the continued development along South Memorial, I would expect to see a double digit positive change in Bixby's revenue between 07 and 08 as well.
A couple of questions:
Restored2xs, please point me to the post where I called you a hater. Please point me to the post in this thread where I "called names."
Double A, you have made an issue of your involvement in local Democrat Party politics. I guess if Lyndon LaRouche can call himself a Democrat, you can. But I have a question for you that is a bit of an aside. Do you believe that you should be held accountable for the things that you have posted on TulsaNow about Latinos and undocumented workers in regards to your work with the party?
Mr. Little, I suspect you are probably still unhappy with me because of my past positive comments about Hugo Chavez but I have to say that you are awesome. Thank you for hanging around. Sometimes I feel like Lott looking around Sodom trying to find at least one virtuous person.
Here's a sample:
quote:
Far be it from me to upset the law abiding (inflated charitable contributions, speeding, pilfering from work, subprime mortgage capital of the U.S., nation's leaders in child abuse, most women incarcerated, surrounded by chronic hunger, churchgoing hypocrite, uneducated hick, descendants of economic refugees) fine citizenry of Oklahoma. After all these are my people and Tulsa is my blessed hometown.
Emphasis mine. It's fair to surmise that what is emphasized is in reference to the perjoratives listed before it. I assume you don't consider this to be "called names."
Every parenthetical item was taken from local newspaper reports on Oklahoma with the exception of "churchgoing hypocrite" and "descendant of economic refugees." One can conclude that there is some hypocrisy in our churchgoing crowd because of the discrepancy between the social conditions mentioned before the use of that term and the teachings of Christ. "Descended from economic refugees" is a matter of state history and our free land grants. The vast majority of citizens of the United States are descended from economic refugees. Calling someone a hypocrite can be a statement of belief. The high and mighty attitude of some citizens holding themselves out as examples of being perfectly legal in every respect calls for a correction.
Now, if I were to call you an anemic flea I would be guilty of name calling.
quote:
Originally posted by BixB
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
The Bixby increase was an outlier because the city recently instituted a sales-tax increase to help pay off debts and other improvements.
The Bixby sales tax was increased by 1/4 cent, so I don't think it alone would be enough to explain a 20+% increase in revenues. I believe it has a lot more to do with the opening of a Super Wal-Mart and other businesses in the area. Since Bixby does not have as large a sales tax base as Tulsa and many of the other 'burbs, the additional revenue from a store like the Wal-Mart would alone have a large impact on the percentage change. With the continued development along South Memorial, I would expect to see a double digit positive change in Bixby's revenue between 07 and 08 as well.
the supercenter is in Tulsa, not bixby. they dont see a dime of that.
however,I bet the starbucks contributed well to their coffers. bixby is growing now just in that area but all over. it is the new hot town.
So I take that as a "yes," that you do admit that it was calling people names, but it was just that it was taken from a "newspaper report" and that somehow makes it less offensive? Or was it because you were stereotyping Oklahomans but not directing the comments towards any one individual, that makes it okay?
Please direct me to the newpaper story where you found the term "uneducated hick."
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
A couple of questions:
Restored2xs, please point me to the post where I called you a hater. Please point me to the post in this thread where I "called names."
Name Calling:
Far be it from me to upset the law abiding (inflated charitable contributions, speeding, pilfering from work, subprime mortgage capital of the U.S., nation's leaders in child abuse, most women incarcerated, surrounded by chronic hunger, churchgoing hypocrite, uneducated hick, descendants of economic refugees) fine citizenry of Oklahoma. After all these are my people and Tulsa is my blessed hometown.Yeah - that qualifies as name-calling.
I don't have the patience to go through all your posts here and find the hater accusation - the tone and message of the posts is obvious. It's not a matter of semantics, it's a matter of message.
No, referencing reports on social conditions in Oklahoma is not calling names.
I'll stand by "uneducated" as a statement of fact regarding a significant number of Oklahomans.
"Hick," oh okay, that's name calling. You caught me. Pretty tame though considering the range of appropriate slurs.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
No, referencing reports on social conditions in Oklahoma is not calling names.
I'll stand by "uneducated" as a statement of fact regarding a significant number of Oklahomans.
"Hick," oh okay, that's name calling. You caught me. Pretty tame though considering the range of appropriate slurs.
You're amazing...why don't you go back to Cuuulifornia where people are better educated, and more progressive. The land where they elect mysoginistic a$$ gropers as Gubners.
I'm tired of your Oklahoma (specifically Tulsa) bashing threads, and from the tone of other's responses, so are the majority of the other posters.
Leave us here unedjumicated bucktoofed retards alone.
HT -
If I quote Hitler, is that OK, too?
Just because it's published doesn't mean it's moral or ethical.
I too would like to be directed to this published article - if for nothing more than to check out the context and perhaps express my displaesure to the publishers.
This topic has spiraled out of control and is now locked.