http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=b1f941de-f84a-4af2-9981-107e32a37051
They need to do this every day. Raise money, and help curb this disturbing aggressive driving trend that has been running rampant the last few years. They could probably write as many red light tickets at any major intersection.
They should start popping the Hardley/Chopper riders for noise ordinance violations....All that chromed out junk sounds the same....If you have heard one you have heard them all....
Yeah and lets get more cops to screw with people's lives and write up more tickets. Yea! Obviously this is something the Tulsa Police Department and Tulsa Court can do well at. Yet we have crime running rampant.
This kind of police activity also slows down traffic.
That road is now safer.
Speed kills!
There are just as many people killed in traffic collisions as there are murdered in Tulsa each year. Something that should not be ignored and something that is 100% preventable.
Police concentrate on traffic because of the amount of lives, injuries and property damage that result from collisions. Ever wonder way the insurance on your $10,000 car is more expensive then the insurance on your $100,000 house?
1400 collisions a month in this town is too many!
Ill bite.
I could care less about statistics thrown at me that speed kills and Officer Insertnamehere states that every accident he or she goes to is either due to drunk driving or excessive speed. Cops in this city ARE NOT used properly.
I cant count the times where police have been used in certain areas only for revenue purposes and yet someone who knows someone in the force states there is no quota or revenue. Thats a load of crap. I remember just a few months ago where the construction was finished in Broken Arrow along 61st st just east of 169 and the lights went out one day at the second set of new lights before you get to 129th.
The BA cops there decided to hide and get people who didn't come to a complete stop due to the lights flashing red. Did I get stopped? No. But this isn't about me. Its the waste of time cops use to cite people for some really stupid things where there labor could better be used elsewhere.
The same goes for that cop who sits hiding at the bottom of a hill so he could get better odds of writing a ticket where the bottom of a hill has nothing but cow pastures for miles. No turnoffs for any other street or residence or anything.
When the city gets control of the crime issue it has, I am sure I would feel somewhat differently about our force here in Tulsa. Otherwise, its a moot point with me. I can guarantee that most people who frequent this forum are more concerned about being shot or assaulted then they are about a person going 11 mph over the speed limit running into them.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowdy
Ill bite.
Still chapped about that unfair speeding ticket, eh?
quote:
I can guarantee that most people who frequent this forum are more concerned about being shot or assaulted then they are about a person going 11 mph over the speed limit running into them.
I will agree with you. And the majority of those people won't be affected by the crime they fear, but they WILL be involved in a collision. And while most of the folks here don't know a sole who has been affected by recent shootings in the area, most know someone who has been involved in a collision, injured in a collision, or killed in a collision.
More property damage and injuries result from collisions then from all other crimes combined ten fold. Why is that okay? Why do you say that should be ignored?
quote:
I cant count the times where police have been used in certain areas only for revenue purposes and yet someone who knows someone in the force states there is no quota or revenue. Thats a load of crap.
Sorry, but police don't get revenue from tickets, as it should be. Money from fines go to several different government groups, but police aren't one of them. And since you seem to know so much about police ticket quotas, what are the quotas you know so much about? What's the number? How many tickets have to be written? For any group?
Do I expect an officer who is assigned to traffic duties to write a bunch of tickets? You betcha! Do I expect a robbery detective to solve a bunch of robberies? You betcha! Do I expect a school resource officer to spend a bunch of time at the schools? You betcha!
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Speed kills!
There are just as many people killed in traffic collisions as there are murdered in Tulsa each year. Something that should not be ignored and something that is 100% preventable.
Police concentrate on traffic because of the amount of lives, injuries and property damage that result from collisions. Ever wonder way the insurance on your $10,000 car is more expensive then the insurance on your $100,000 house?
1400 collisions a month in this town is too many!
Traffic fatalities are not 100% preventable. Violent crimes are 100% preventable. Even with a cop on every corner you will still have rulebreakers. Until you solve the problem that you have dozens of extra officers to park on the side of the road during the day and not enough officers to take care of the real problems at night, there will still be an issue.
Past experience in other cities has found that trying to curb lesser crimes does lower the incidences of capital crimes. However, those lesser crimes need to be related. crack down on drugs and illegal gun possession and the violent crime rate will lower.
We need to go back to CB radios so we can teel each other where the speed traps are set up that day.
Even better...
Someone should set up an email list serve that sends the info to my blackberry.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
We need to go back to CB radios so we can teel each other where the speed traps are set up that day.
Even better...
Someone should set up an email list serve that sends the info to my blackberry.
Even better, don't speed and you won't have to worry about it.
quote:
Traffic fatalities are not 100% preventable.
That is exactly the attitude problem of why people believe collisions are, some how, a way of life. Every single traffic collision was started by someone who has committed a traffic violation. No one is forcing that person to commit that traffic violation, they chose to do so on their own accord. Yes. Each and every one of the 1400 collisions in Tulsa every month are preventable! And it soooo easy. It's called 'PAYING ATTENTION' to the task at hand. And that task is aiming that 4000 pound slab of steel down the road. Not eating, playing with the radio, playing with the phone, goofing around with your passengers, ..........
Until society has a change in attitude towards the acceptance of 43,000 people killed each year (the war in Iraq would have to go on 50 years to equal one year of traffic fatalities in the United States), you and I will continue to pay ridiculous insurance rates and make insurance companies rich (and keep me employed).
I'm glad that driving the speed limit keeps deer from running out in front of you, freak weather from happening, and tires from blowing out.
I'm sure the family of the newsperson that dies when a freak weather system blinded the driver and sent them off the keystone dam would like it if you called and told them their family member's death was their own fault.
hey, at least the article tells us where the speed thugs will be next week. time to go rob and pillage in north tulsa!
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
I'm glad that driving the speed limit keeps deer from running out in front of you, freak weather from happening, and tires from blowing out.
I'm sure the family of the newsperson that dies when a freak weather system blinded the driver and sent them off the keystone dam would like it if you called and told them their family member's death was their own fault.
When the State runs their stats, which are all fed into the federal death toll, those INCIDENTS you mention are not included. Technically, they are not considered collisions, they are simply incidents that are reported on collision forms, if that makes any sense at all.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
I'm glad that driving the speed limit keeps deer from running out in front of you, freak weather from happening, and tires from blowing out.
I'm sure the family of the newsperson that dies when a freak weather system blinded the driver and sent them off the keystone dam would like it if you called and told them their family member's death was their own fault.
When the State runs their stats, which are all fed into the federal death toll, those INCIDENTS you mention are not included. Technically, they are not considered collisions, they are simply incidents that are reported on collision forms, if that makes any sense at all.
Not really, other than the fact it's a government thing, so it all comes full circle.
How about ticketing people too old to drive?
I've hit two deer in my lifetime, both in the dead of night, with no warning that the animals were coming. I'm driving the speed limit, and boom, there they are in front of my car in a millisecond. Didn't even have time to react with braking or steering in either crash.
One crash cost $4,000 to repair; the other cost $3,500. But it's an "incident," not a collision.
No, that *doesn't* make any sense at all.
Fine are supposed to be a means to enforce laws, NOT to raise money. Talk of hiring more officers to 'fund' the police force with tickets is the kind of crap that makes people hate cops. When they spend most of their time raising money by ticketing Ms. Soccer Mom instead of stopping violent crimes, people lose respect REAL fast.
I disagree fodder.
I want the police to enforce all the laws and speeding cars can make our roads dangerous.
What method would you employ to make speeders obey the speed limit?
What about the illegal aliens driving around with no insurance, no drivers license? That is our biggest threat. Anyone who ever had a accident with a illegal alien knows how bad it is. It's even worse if the car is totaled and there's huge medical bills.
My one and only experience with an uninsured driver was with a white guy from Tulsa. Caused almost two thousand in damage. Go figure.
He's just as much a threat as anyone without insurance, legal, illegal, brown, white, purple, whatever.
Remember, illegal means it's illegal.
Interesting thread. I don't have a problem with cops stopping all illegal activities - my problem is the lack of balance. It does appear way too much energy and resources go into "streetside fund raising" and too little into preventing or investigating other crimes.
Ever had a cop come out when your house has been broken into? No fingerprinting, no talking to the neighbors, just a sh!+ happens attitude. The traffic cop is out there for one reason - to collect monies.
I find it naive to expect an intelligent person to believe that all that force out there is to protect us from those who are going 5 miles above the speed limit.
We all know it is about money. Revenue. I once heard (don't know if its true) that those who raise the most money, or get the most DUI arrests get to drive a squad car home - true?
I respect the TPD, and I rarely speed. I like living and I like living with all my limbs and facilities intact. The guy with the radar gun doesn't deter me - a sense of self-preservation deters me.
A TP is told to go out on traffic duty - he/she does it. It's not personal - just his job. I'm not criticizing the officers, I'm questioning the unbalnaced use of great resources.
quote:
Originally posted by restored2x
Interesting thread. I don't have a problem with cops stopping all illegal activities - my problem is the lack of balance. It does appear way too much energy and resources go into "streetside fund raising" and too little into preventing or investigating other crimes.
Ever had a cop come out when your house has been broken into? No fingerprinting, no talking to the neighbors, just a sh!+ happens attitude. The traffic cop is out there for one reason - to collect monies.
I find it naive to expect an intelligent person to believe that all that force out there is to protect us from those who are going 5 miles above the speed limit.
We all know it is about money. Revenue. I once heard (don't know if its true) that those who raise the most money, or get the most DUI arrests get to drive a squad car home - true?
I respect the TPD, and I rarely speed. I like living and I like living with all my limbs and facilities intact. The guy with the radar gun doesn't deter me - a sense of self-preservation deters me.
A TP is told to go out on traffic duty - he/she does it. It's not personal - just his job. I'm not criticizing the officers, I'm questioning the unbalnaced use of great resources.
No question, it's all a money grab. The same goes with the seatbelt laws, if the seat belts could not been seen thru the car window or if they were just a "Lap belt" and a cop could not tell if you wore it or not unless he was standing right next to your car we would have no seatbelt laws because there would be no way for a cop to tell who has one on and who doesn't, but since seat belts have that shoulder strap it's easy to see who uses seatbelts and to enforce that law and get into the money grab. Funny there is no helmet law though. It's more likely car drivers will have to wear helmets before the 2-wheelers do. Head & face are the #1 injury in a car crash that a simple helmet can prevent. it's coming.
quote:
Originally posted by NellieBly
My one and only experience with an uninsured driver was with a white guy from Tulsa. Caused almost two thousand in damage. Go figure.
He's just as much a threat as anyone without insurance, legal, illegal, brown, white, purple, whatever.
Remember, illegal means it's illegal.
The guy maybe uninsured, but if he has a drivers license he at least knows the rules of the road and he has something that can be revoked. The illegal alien has no drivers license and never took a drivers class offten times does not know English road signs. He has no drivers license that can be revoked, with no insurance there is nothing that can done with them. They have no money you can't sue them- If deported they will just be back next week driving another car. Illegal is the key word. it's a mess.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
What about the illegal aliens driving around with no insurance, no drivers license? That is our biggest threat. Anyone who ever had a accident with a illegal alien knows how bad it is. It's even worse if the car is totaled and there's huge medical bills.
if they would shoot them dead on spot at the accident I dont care if they continue to run around with no insurance.
quote:
We all know it is about money. Revenue. I once heard (don't know if its true) that those who raise the most money, or get the most DUI arrests get to drive a squad car home - true?
It's not about the money on the part of police, since the police don't get any of the fine money. It is spread over several government agencies. And sorry, your story about the take-home car is very false. Tulsa officers are allowed to take their assigned units home if they live within 25 miles of 41st and Yale. Some do. Some don't.
quote:
I respect the TPD, and I rarely speed. I like living and I like living with all my limbs and facilities intact. The guy with the radar gun doesn't deter me - a sense of self-preservation deters me.
Good for you. The idea of traffic tickets is to correct behavior and provide deterrent. It is up to the offender to decide how they will react. The hope is people will obey traffic laws, which are in place for everyone's safety.
quote:
A TP is told to go out on traffic duty - he/she does it. It's not personal - just his job. I'm not criticizing the officers, I'm questioning the unbalnaced use of great resources.
If my numbers are correct, out of the 814 police officers in Tulsa, about 35+ (4%) are assigned to full time traffic duties. Not sure how much lower one would go when you are already at 4%.
quote:
The guy maybe uninsured, but if he has a drivers license he at least knows the rules of the road and he has something that can be revoked. The illegal alien has no drivers license and never took a drivers class offten times does not know English road signs. He has no drivers license that can be revoked, with no insurance there is nothing that can done with them. They have no money you can't sue them- If deported they will just be back next week driving another car. Illegal is the key word. it's a mess.
No one is required to take driver's ed. Any person can get a driver's license without driver's ed, although you will get a temporary restriction put on your license. There is no requirement to know English in order to drive, just as there is no mandate to know French to drive in France. If you did take driver's ed, you would remember that road signs are universal, so a stop sign here looks like a stop sign in France.
There is SOME accountability Wilbur with the Tulsa PD. There may not be official quotas but you don't just send officers out there and let them not come back day in and day out with no citations.
I'm surprised to see that Tulsa cops can take their car home with them if they live within 25 miles. I wonder who pays for that fuel though, if the city does, the cop can use the car on personal drives and the city taxpayers get stuck with the fuel tab when a cop car is used for personal use. Since fuel went up to $3.00 a gallon alot of police agencys in Ohio no longer permit that, unless they must have the car for a certain reason.
I like this story about speeders.
An Australian anti-speeding TV ad features young women making hand gestures at a speeder that imply the target has a small penis.
The campaign features young women, an elderly woman and other young men not in the driver's seat wiggling their little fingers in a gesture that implies the speeder is poorly endowed before the appearance of the campaign's slogan: "Speeding, no one thinks big of you," The Times of London reported Tuesday.
The provocative advertisement is the work of the New South Wales Roads and Traffic Authority.
"To me the gesture says, 'Speeding -- no one thinks big of you,'" said John Whelan, the authority's spokesman. "It will cause people who are speeding to think twice about the image they are creating."
The TV spot represents a departure from campaigns that featured gruesome images of auto crashes that resulted in wrecked cars and mangled bodies. Whelan said those types of TV spots are no longer effective because young drivers have been desensitized by images in video games and horror films.
I registered just to jump in on this one...
Growing up and learning to drive in Ohio, we all understood that speed limits were enforced carefully. In certain towns (Kirtland especially), you'd get pulled over for 3mpg over. No kidding, no exaggeration, that's the way it was. Driving was consistently enervating as it was critical watch your speedometer constantly. You know, we still had "accidents" and plenty of 'em. Fatal ones, too.
Why does everyone assume speed = death and mayhem? Sure, 65 in a school zone is a very poor decision, but heavier traffic enforcement seems to bring a lot of tickets to people that drive 1-10 over. You can't catch everybody, why not focus only on those who wildly speed (as Tulsa police mainly do already!). Frankly, many of you sound like frightened old ladies.
My car is not 4000 pounds of steel, it's 2600 pounds of steel and plastic. I understand it's limits and I understand my own. Really at the root of traffic problems is piss-poor driver's education.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
I'm surprised to see that Tulsa cops can take their car home with them if they live within 25 miles. I wonder who pays for that fuel though, if the city does, the cop can use the car on personal drives and the city taxpayers get stuck with the fuel tab when a cop car is used for personal use. Since fuel went up to $3.00 a gallon alot of police agencys in Ohio no longer permit that, unless they must have the car for a certain reason.
It's not just Tulsa. Many of the surrounding communities allow their officers to take cars home too, some live in Tulsa.
And, no, police officers can't use their cars to drive to the store, go to the movies, run to church, .......
They do, however.
Why do I see cops in civilian clothes driving their cars all the time? Do they drive to that part-time security job in their city issued vehicle??
My favorite traffic enforcement story was one city that hooked traffic cameras to a van and it would take a picture of the license plate and the fully automated system would even issue the tickets and mail them out.
They were however quite surprised when tickets started pouring in for violations from the van itself. Kids had taken the plates off of the traffic van, put it on their car and run by the camera over and over again.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
My favorite traffic enforcement story was one city that hooked traffic cameras to a van and it would take a picture of the license plate and the fully automated system would even issue the tickets and mail them out.
They were however quite surprised when tickets started pouring in for violations from the van itself. Kids had taken the plates off of the traffic van, put it on their car and run by the camera over and over again.
[}:)]
Your story reminded me of one Paul Harvey told a few years back. He said they use speeder cameras in England. A fellow got a ticket in the mail with a photo of his license plate. He sent back a photo of a check. The police sent back a photo of hand-cuffs. He got the message and paid. [:P]
quote:
Originally posted by NellieBly
They do, however.
Why do I see cops in civilian clothes driving their cars all the time? Do they drive to that part-time security job in their city issued vehicle??
There are alot of reasons you see officers in plain clothes driving police cars. They may be driving to municipal, state and/or federal court. They may be taking their vehicles in to get serviced on their day off so they don't have to do it on their work days and miss taking calls. They may be going to in-service training at the academy. They may be on special assignment and working in a plain clothes capacity once they get to work. They may be going to work but haven't put their uniform on yet. They may be going to the range to practice with their firearms. They may be going to a community meeting the new Chief has requested.
The bottom line is this...the city and the citizens of Tulsa get a fully trained Tulsa police officer for the price of gas (and no, they city doesn't pay what citizens pay for gas)when they allow officers to drive take home cars. Off-duty officers respond to high-priority calls (shootings, stabbings, armed robberies ect.) if they are in their police cars and the calls are close to them. Off-duty officers also conduct motorist assists and stop when they are flagged down by citizens when they are driving their police cars.
Furthermore, the citizens of Tulsa also get about an extra hour of police coverage for only the price of gasoline when officers are allowed to drive their police cars from home to work and then from work to home. Many officers never make squad meeting before their shift starts because they go to a call on their way to squad meeting or they stop to help a motorist on the side of the road or they stop a reckless driver.
Lastly, citizens do not know if a uniformed officer is currently at work, working an extra job, on their way to work or on their way home unless they ask. So don't assume you know exactly what the officer's status is. If you really want to know, just ask them.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
quote:
We all know it is about money. Revenue. I once heard (don't know if its true) that those who raise the most money, or get the most DUI arrests get to drive a squad car home - true?
It's not about the money on the part of police, since the police don't get any of the fine money. It is spread over several government agencies. And sorry, your story about the take-home car is very false. Tulsa officers are allowed to take their assigned units home if they live within 25 miles of 41st and Yale. Some do. Some don't.
quote:
I respect the TPD, and I rarely speed. I like living and I like living with all my limbs and facilities intact. The guy with the radar gun doesn't deter me - a sense of self-preservation deters me.
Good for you. The idea of traffic tickets is to correct behavior and provide deterrent. It is up to the offender to decide how they will react. The hope is people will obey traffic laws, which are in place for everyone's safety.
quote:
A TP is told to go out on traffic duty - he/she does it. It's not personal - just his job. I'm not criticizing the officers, I'm questioning the unbalnaced use of great resources.
If my numbers are correct, out of the 814 police officers in Tulsa, about 35+ (4%) are assigned to full time traffic duties. Not sure how much lower one would go when you are already at 4%.
quote:
The guy maybe uninsured, but if he has a drivers license he at least knows the rules of the road and he has something that can be revoked. The illegal alien has no drivers license and never took a drivers class offten times does not know English road signs. He has no drivers license that can be revoked, with no insurance there is nothing that can done with them. They have no money you can't sue them- If deported they will just be back next week driving another car. Illegal is the key word. it's a mess.
No one is required to take driver's ed. Any person can get a driver's license without driver's ed, although you will get a temporary restriction put on your license. There is no requirement to know English in order to drive, just as there is no mandate to know French to drive in France. If you did take driver's ed, you would remember that road signs are universal, so a stop sign here looks like a stop sign in France.
Thanks for the clarification. It is amazing how much urban myth there is regarding the inner workings of the PD. Pretty cool that we can get true real-time info right here.
Wow - 4%. That is very surpising. Perhaps we see the traffic cops more than the other 96% because we're on the road so much. Where are the others? Is it "beat" duty? It would be interesting to know what goes into the decisions of police presence. (Maybe that's confidential, obviously so)
I wish a TPD officer would move onto my street and drive his car home - a great crime deterrent, having a squad car parked in the neighborhood. Driving the car home is not an issue for me - just the crap I heard about who gets cars and why - which you have cleared up.
The police may not get the money, but someone in government gets the money, and if everybody drove carefully and no tickets were issued for just one month, some one's budget would be screwed - so the pressure could still be coming from somewhere. Are monies from fines actually included in the budget?
There are cops living all over my midtown neighborhood, one living six houses down at the corner and one living almost directly south of me on the next street. The rest are sprinkled all around. Last Thanksgiving, a thief made his way down from the corner, smashed my car's side window and made off with a radio faceplate before the dog scared him away. My car was in my well-lit driveway - and this happened at 9:45 pm. A couple years before, thieves robbed every car parked on the street from one corner to the next, turned down the next street and stole a shotgun from a cruiser in the cop's driveway. A house less then 1/10 of a mile from the nearby cop's house has been robbed twice.
It does feel good to have cops in the neighborhood, but I think it does little to deter criminals.
Allow citizens to ticket cops for breaking traffic laws - sans emergency lights of course. Then, by god, we can raise some SERIOUS money.
I went to eat lunch recently and a couple of cops came in right after me, they were still eating when I left. When I went out to the parking lot I realized one of their squad cars was running! He left it running the entire time he was eating lunch, around 30 minutes! Now I'm sure if I questioned him he would of told me he left it on in case he needed to leave in a moments notice but I doubt the time to start the car would make any difference. I'm sure he doesn't have to pay for the gas or to maintenance the car so why should he care, it was hot and he wanted a cold car to come out to.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris
I went to eat lunch recently and a couple of cops came in right after me, they were still eating when I left. When I went out to the parking lot I realized one of their squad cars was running! He left it running the entire time he was eating lunch, around 30 minutes! Now I'm sure if I questioned him he would of told me he left it on in case he needed to leave in a moments notice but I doubt the time to start the car would make any difference. I'm sure he doesn't have to pay for the gas or to maintenance the car so why should he care, it was hot and he wanted a cold car to come out to.
Cold cars are nice (kind of like air conditioning in your office!)but sometimes you have to leave your car running so the computer doesn't die and you have to reboot and re-login to everything(dispatch, wants and warrants, Incident report server, FIR report server, Collision server ect. )and/or your battery doesn't drain down so that you have to jump your police car.
I thought about that too, the computer thing, and if true does that mean this is a common occurance?
quote:
Originally posted by Chris
I thought about that too, the computer thing, and if true does that mean this is a common occurance?
It just depends. Some cars are better than others.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris
I went to eat lunch recently and a couple of cops came in right after me, they were still eating when I left. When I went out to the parking lot I realized one of their squad cars was running! He left it running the entire time he was eating lunch, around 30 minutes! Now I'm sure if I questioned him he would of told me he left it on in case he needed to leave in a moments notice but I doubt the time to start the car would make any difference. I'm sure he doesn't have to pay for the gas or to maintenance the car so why should he care, it was hot and he wanted a cold car to come out to.
Actually, he probably would have told you if he turned it off, it would not re-start. A common problem, which is due to battery and alternator problems (police cars suck a ton of energy running all of the extra equipment). Set you car down today to get that problem fixed, it will be at least one week before you get it back.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris
I went to eat lunch recently and a couple of cops came in right after me, they were still eating when I left. When I went out to the parking lot I realized one of their squad cars was running! He left it running the entire time he was eating lunch, around 30 minutes! Now I'm sure if I questioned him he would of told me he left it on in case he needed to leave in a moments notice but I doubt the time to start the car would make any difference. I'm sure he doesn't have to pay for the gas or to maintenance the car so why should he care, it was hot and he wanted a cold car to come out to.
.... or it could have been a K9 officer trying to keep his dog alive, since the dogs don't really do too well inside the restaurant.
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
quote:
Originally posted by Chris
I went to eat lunch recently and a couple of cops came in right after me, they were still eating when I left. When I went out to the parking lot I realized one of their squad cars was running! He left it running the entire time he was eating lunch, around 30 minutes! Now I'm sure if I questioned him he would of told me he left it on in case he needed to leave in a moments notice but I doubt the time to start the car would make any difference. I'm sure he doesn't have to pay for the gas or to maintenance the car so why should he care, it was hot and he wanted a cold car to come out to.
Cold cars are nice (kind of like air conditioning in your office!)but sometimes you have to leave your car running so the computer doesn't die and you have to reboot and re-login to everything(dispatch, wants and warrants, Incident report server, FIR report server, Collision server ect.
its called planning.
There was definitely no dog in the car. I don't see how any of these things are anymore than an inconvenience to the officer and could all be remedied without waisting large amounts of gas and causing unnecessary wear to the engine. I like to have a cold car too but am unwilling to pay to have it running all the time and I don't like the idea of someone using tax dollars like this.
I run all kinds of equipment and I can keep my vehicle shut off for at least 4-5 hours plus. A lunch hour with their stuff running wouldn't drain the battery in an hour or even two.
It doesn't waste large amounts of gas to idle a vehicle. Engine wear is minimal. If you think that is bad, you should see the stress we put on an engine during a pursuit.
Rowdy, I'm sure you can run all that stuff on your vehicle. It seems that everyone else can too but for some reason, most of our police cars can't.
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
It doesn't waste large amounts of gas to idle a vehicle. Engine wear is minimal. If you think that is bad, you should see the stress we put on an engine during a pursuit.
Rowdy, I'm sure you can run all that stuff on your vehicle. It seems that everyone else can too but for some reason, most of our police cars can't.
Maybe it's not a lot if this happens rarely but as it seems you are saying it's common I think that would start to add up to quite a bit. And I don't think anyone is going to be upset about what happens in a pursuit. Pursuing is part of a cop's job, leaving the squad car on all the time isn't.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris
He left it running the entire time he was eating lunch, around 30 minutes! Now I'm sure if I questioned him he would of told me he left it on in case he needed to leave in a moments notice but I doubt the time to start the car would make any difference. I'm sure he doesn't have to pay for the gas or to maintenance the car so why should he care, it was hot and he wanted a cold car to come out to.
The cop I lived across the street from in the Renaissance Neighborhood would leave his car running almost every day for hours on end. I first noticed it in the winter because of the tailpipe exhaust and started paying more attention. The car would disappear for about an hour, return, and the next day he would do it all over again. I worked at home at the time so the pattern I observed was pretty consistent.
quote:
Originally posted by buckeye
Last Thanksgiving, a thief made his way down from the corner, smashed my car's side window and made off with a radio faceplate before the dog scared him away. My car was in my well-lit driveway - and this happened at 9:45 pm.
Well-lit for your neighbors, or for passing thieves?
If your light is forcing your neighbors to keep their curtains closed, you might want to re-think your strategy. Motion detectors do a better job of drawing attention to unexpected visitors than dusk-to-dawn "security" lights that draw attention to stuff worth stealing.
If I recall correctly, the cop you mentioned who had his shotgun stolen from the cruiser in his driveway had a neighbor-blinding Mercury Vapor "farm light" over his driveway.
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
It doesn't waste large amounts of gas to idle a vehicle. Engine wear is minimal. If you think that is bad, you should see the stress we put on an engine during a pursuit.
Rowdy, I'm sure you can run all that stuff on your vehicle. It seems that everyone else can too but for some reason, most of our police cars can't.
Don't you guys use inverters?
Roses to the councilors as they are taking in hand the solution to why over half of the cars seem to be parked in the areas of the suburbs that is a deterrent to crime in their neighborhoods. Although under the charter the purpose of the strong mayor was to set the policies of the city to be approved by the council.
If the sight of a police car is a deterrent then park all the extra and obsolete police cars at intersection throughout the city. Watch the stop lights come on when drivers observe the parked police cars in the streets.
If 4% is assigned to traffic, then if they do not see 40 illegal operations of the rules of the road in an eight hour period then they would be sleeping.
It is a very simple and without extra stress to install an extra battery to operate the equipment that is needed rather than driving a 12 volt alternator with a 300 horse motor.
All the fines coming from tickets are dumped into the same revenue pot and all the city employees fill their cup from the pot. To say it is not used for revenue purposes is like saying there are no speed traps.
A rose to the mayor as she is addressing the police bureaucracy failures by employing an out-of-towner to observe why we require the number of police but still it is not a secure society.
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
Roses to the councilors as they are taking in hand the solution to why over half of the cars seem to be parked in the areas of the suburbs that is a deterrent to crime in their neighborhoods. Although under the charter the purpose of the strong mayor was to set the policies of the city to be approved by the council.
If the sight of a police car is a deterrent then park all the extra and obsolete police cars at intersection throughout the city. Watch the stop lights come on when drivers observe the parked police cars in the streets.
If 4% is assigned to traffic, then if they do not see 40 illegal operations of the rules of the road in an eight hour period then they would be sleeping.
It is a very simple and without extra stress to install an extra battery to operate the equipment that is needed rather than driving a 12 volt alternator with a 300 horse motor.
All the fines coming from tickets are dumped into the same revenue pot and all the city employees fill their cup from the pot. To say it is not used for revenue purposes is like saying there are no speed traps.
A rose to the mayor as she is addressing the police bureaucracy failures by employing an out-of-towner to observe why we require the number of police but still it is not a secure society.
The counselors were very short sited in determining costs of take home cars. They never took into account peoples' time sitting at a location waiting forever for someone who is on-call to respond. In addition to waiting on that person to arrive, we now have to wait while that person drives to who-knows-where to get their car/truck and equipment, then drive to where they are needed, which may be on opposite sides of the city. Just ask the Animal Shelter. That time is wasted money. They also didn't take into account the number of incidents police handle while driving into work or home from work. Those poor citizens now get to wait even longer for an officer to respond. Many who will lose their take home car will now do one of two things: No longer be on call, thus losing that needed expertise, or, demand on-call pay, which police were not being paid prior. While on-call pay is very small, it is way more expensive then two bucks worth of gas.
Extra police cars? What planet are you on? There aren't even enough cars to go around, let alone have extras sitting around. What few are used as spares, are always being used. In fact, officers often have to 'double-up' because there aren't enough cars.
And I'm assuming you mean traffic officers should write 40 tickets a day. So what officers would you like to see investigate all the collisions they handle? Those are part of their traffic duties and responsibilities in addition to enforcing traffic laws and helping patrol officers with calls. Because traffic officers are traffic officers, they are still POLICE officers first. And that stolen car that traffic officer just stopped doesn't just go away. Neither does that driver with all the warrants or the guy with dope in his car.
And I realize it was silly of me to forget everyone outside the police department knows all about police cars and how they are maintained and know much better how to keep them running then police or the city garage. I guess you should be hired by our city garage. Of course, charging that extra battery and keeping it charged is another story. That is the problem. Lost two hours of my day a couple weeks ago for this very reason.
All fines are not dumped into the same revenue pot at the city. Check your facts (or read prior posts). They are spread out over several different governmental agencies, from the state on down. A $120 ticket does not result in $120 going to the City of Tulsa, although, I'm confident our city leaders wished it did. And even if they did, that $12M a year hardly funds a city operating budget of $571M. Falls a little short.
A rose to the Mayor for hiring a person who will always say "Yes Ma'am" at a cost of $130K.
quote:
There was definitely no dog in the car. I don't see how any of these things are anymore than an inconvenience to the officer and could all be remedied without waisting large amounts of gas and causing unnecessary wear to the engine. I like to have a cold car too but am unwilling to pay to have it running all the time and I don't like the idea of someone using tax dollars like this.
Inconvenienced? I'll try that next time I get yelled at by someone complaining of slow response time. "We were inconvenienced. Chris said you and everyone else would understand. It's just an inconvenience it took two hours to respond to your ...... (fill in crime type here)." Yea. That's it.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
quote:
There was definitely no dog in the car. I don't see how any of these things are anymore than an inconvenience to the officer and could all be remedied without waisting large amounts of gas and causing unnecessary wear to the engine. I like to have a cold car too but am unwilling to pay to have it running all the time and I don't like the idea of someone using tax dollars like this.
Inconvenienced? I'll try that next time I get yelled at by someone complaining of slow response time. "We were inconvenienced. Chris said you and everyone else would understand. It's just an inconvenience it took two hours to respond to your ...... (fill in crime type here)." Yea. That's it.
So you're saying that not leaving your car running all the time is causing a two hour delay ?
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
Roses to the councilors as they are taking in hand the solution to why over half of the cars seem to be parked in the areas of the suburbs that is a deterrent to crime in their neighborhoods. Although under the charter the purpose of the strong mayor was to set the policies of the city to be approved by the council.
If the sight of a police car is a deterrent then park all the extra and obsolete police cars at intersection throughout the city. Watch the stop lights come on when drivers observe the parked police cars in the streets.
If 4% is assigned to traffic, then if they do not see 40 illegal operations of the rules of the road in an eight hour period then they would be sleeping.
It is a very simple and without extra stress to install an extra battery to operate the equipment that is needed rather than driving a 12 volt alternator with a 300 horse motor.
All the fines coming from tickets are dumped into the same revenue pot and all the city employees fill their cup from the pot. To say it is not used for revenue purposes is like saying there are no speed traps.
A rose to the mayor as she is addressing the police bureaucracy failures by employing an out-of-towner to observe why we require the number of police but still it is not a secure society.
The counselors were very short sited in determining costs of take home cars. They never took into account peoples' time sitting at a location waiting forever for someone who is on-call to respond. In addition to waiting on that person to arrive, we now have to wait while that person drives to who-knows-where to get their car/truck and equipment, then drive to where they are needed, which may be on opposite sides of the city. Just ask the Animal Shelter. That time is wasted money. They also didn't take into account the number of incidents police handle while driving into work or home from work. Those poor citizens now get to wait even longer for an officer to respond. Many who will lose their take home car will now do one of two things: No longer be on call, thus losing that needed expertise, or, demand on-call pay, which police were not being paid prior. While on-call pay is very small, it is way more expensive then two bucks worth of gas.
Extra police cars? What planet are you on? There aren't even enough cars to go around, let alone have extras sitting around. What few are used as spares, are always being used. In fact, officers often have to 'double-up' because there aren't enough cars.
And I'm assuming you mean traffic officers should write 40 tickets a day. So what officers would you like to see investigate all the collisions they handle? Those are part of their traffic duties and responsibilities in addition to enforcing traffic laws and helping patrol officers with calls. Because traffic officers are traffic officers, they are still POLICE officers first. And that stolen car that traffic officer just stopped doesn't just go away. Neither does that driver with all the warrants or the guy with dope in his car.
And I realize it was silly of me to forget everyone outside the police department knows all about police cars and how they are maintained and know much better how to keep them running then police or the city garage. I guess you should be hired by our city garage. Of course, charging that extra battery and keeping it charged is another story. That is the problem. Lost two hours of my day a couple weeks ago for this very reason.
All fines are not dumped into the same revenue pot at the city. Check your facts (or read prior posts). They are spread out over several different governmental agencies, from the state on down. A $120 ticket does not result in $120 going to the City of Tulsa, although, I'm confident our city leaders wished it did. And even if they did, that $12M a year hardly funds a city operating budget of $571M. Falls a little short.
A rose to the Mayor for hiring a person who will always say "Yes Ma'am" at a cost of $130K.
quote:
There was definitely no dog in the car. I don't see how any of these things are anymore than an inconvenience to the officer and could all be remedied without waisting large amounts of gas and causing unnecessary wear to the engine. I like to have a cold car too but am unwilling to pay to have it running all the time and I don't like the idea of someone using tax dollars like this.
Inconvenienced? I'll try that next time I get yelled at by someone complaining of slow response time. "We were inconvenienced. Chris said you and everyone else would understand. It's just an inconvenience it took two hours to respond to your ...... (fill in crime type here)." Yea. That's it.
Wilbur-
I was told to pay a fine for speeding as you know a month or so ago. I was told to pay this "fine" to the TULSA REVENUE DEPARTMENT.
End of story.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowdy
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
Roses to the councilors as they are taking in hand the solution to why over half of the cars seem to be parked in the areas of the suburbs that is a deterrent to crime in their neighborhoods. Although under the charter the purpose of the strong mayor was to set the policies of the city to be approved by the council.
If the sight of a police car is a deterrent then park all the extra and obsolete police cars at intersection throughout the city. Watch the stop lights come on when drivers observe the parked police cars in the streets.
If 4% is assigned to traffic, then if they do not see 40 illegal operations of the rules of the road in an eight hour period then they would be sleeping.
It is a very simple and without extra stress to install an extra battery to operate the equipment that is needed rather than driving a 12 volt alternator with a 300 horse motor.
All the fines coming from tickets are dumped into the same revenue pot and all the city employees fill their cup from the pot. To say it is not used for revenue purposes is like saying there are no speed traps.
A rose to the mayor as she is addressing the police bureaucracy failures by employing an out-of-towner to observe why we require the number of police but still it is not a secure society.
The counselors were very short sited in determining costs of take home cars. They never took into account peoples' time sitting at a location waiting forever for someone who is on-call to respond. In addition to waiting on that person to arrive, we now have to wait while that person drives to who-knows-where to get their car/truck and equipment, then drive to where they are needed, which may be on opposite sides of the city. Just ask the Animal Shelter. That time is wasted money. They also didn't take into account the number of incidents police handle while driving into work or home from work. Those poor citizens now get to wait even longer for an officer to respond. Many who will lose their take home car will now do one of two things: No longer be on call, thus losing that needed expertise, or, demand on-call pay, which police were not being paid prior. While on-call pay is very small, it is way more expensive then two bucks worth of gas.
Extra police cars? What planet are you on? There aren't even enough cars to go around, let alone have extras sitting around. What few are used as spares, are always being used. In fact, officers often have to 'double-up' because there aren't enough cars.
And I'm assuming you mean traffic officers should write 40 tickets a day. So what officers would you like to see investigate all the collisions they handle? Those are part of their traffic duties and responsibilities in addition to enforcing traffic laws and helping patrol officers with calls. Because traffic officers are traffic officers, they are still POLICE officers first. And that stolen car that traffic officer just stopped doesn't just go away. Neither does that driver with all the warrants or the guy with dope in his car.
And I realize it was silly of me to forget everyone outside the police department knows all about police cars and how they are maintained and know much better how to keep them running then police or the city garage. I guess you should be hired by our city garage. Of course, charging that extra battery and keeping it charged is another story. That is the problem. Lost two hours of my day a couple weeks ago for this very reason.
All fines are not dumped into the same revenue pot at the city. Check your facts (or read prior posts). They are spread out over several different governmental agencies, from the state on down. A $120 ticket does not result in $120 going to the City of Tulsa, although, I'm confident our city leaders wished it did. And even if they did, that $12M a year hardly funds a city operating budget of $571M. Falls a little short.
A rose to the Mayor for hiring a person who will always say "Yes Ma'am" at a cost of $130K.
quote:
There was definitely no dog in the car. I don't see how any of these things are anymore than an inconvenience to the officer and could all be remedied without waisting large amounts of gas and causing unnecessary wear to the engine. I like to have a cold car too but am unwilling to pay to have it running all the time and I don't like the idea of someone using tax dollars like this.
Inconvenienced? I'll try that next time I get yelled at by someone complaining of slow response time. "We were inconvenienced. Chris said you and everyone else would understand. It's just an inconvenience it took two hours to respond to your ...... (fill in crime type here)." Yea. That's it.
Wilbur-
I was told to pay a fine for speeding as you know a month or so ago. I was told to pay this "fine" to the TULSA REVENUE DEPARTMENT.
End of story.
You're correct. When you receive a traffic citation you don't mail in four or five checks to several different governmental agencies that total $120. You make one check out to the City of __________. That city is then required to distribute parts of those funds to different agencies as required by law.
Can't you just give the cash directly to the officer?
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
Can't you just give the cash directly to the officer?
Absolutely not! You expect any city to trust their police officers with money? Police can take your liberties away and they can even take your life, but don't trust 'em with money. They won't even let people pay at the police stations into a lock box anymore, like they used to in the past. Jokes aside, that is one less responsibility and/or job function, making sure your register balances every night before you go home.
But what if I don't need a receipt?
Just kidding.
There has been some discussion, although early on in the process, that with the electronic ticket machines, they could have a credit card swipe ability so a driver could pay on the spot. The ability is there, although, not sure the higher ups are interested in such an ability.
If one goes to OCIN and list the name or the citation number they can see where ticket money generates revenue and how it is distributed. Even to the extent that there is a state statute on how much of the cities budgets can be supported by the traffic tickets.
The $2.00 per day cost to the citizens on take home cars that are driven 50 of miles a day is a figure that could have been used in the great depression when gas was 14 cents a gallon and the Willis police cars were purchased for less than a thousand dollars.
I have an ticket [W5PYV] whereas with the 200 watt transmitter is was driven by a 12v/300v generator which required an extra battery, If the city with the support of over 1,500 employees cannot find out how to hook up an extra battery in the trunk of the cars then they should ask a sixth grade student.
I believe the stand-by conditions can be better addressed by the fed labor department as well as the state.
I am sure we have a shortage of police cars as a large percentage are sitting in the drives in the suburb 128 hours each week to be used 40 hours. We need three times more cars.
The mayor can hire and fire anyone she chooses under her duties as chief officer of the city by the charter, even those in the legal department and hire her own personal advisor.
Once a curmudgeon always a curmudgeon looking back over the road that I have just passed.
quote:
Originally posted by patric
Well-lit for your neighbors, or for passing thieves?
Maybe it's just still a bit touchy, but it sounds like you're putting part of the blame on me. Try again. Some bozo made the choice to step onto my property, bash the window open and take what he was too lazy to work for.
quote:
If your light is forcing your neighbors to keep their curtains closed, you might want to re-think your strategy. Motion detectors do a better job of drawing attention to unexpected visitors than dusk-to-dawn "security" lights that draw attention to stuff worth stealing.
If I recall correctly, the cop you mentioned who had his shotgun stolen from the cruiser in his driveway had a neighbor-blinding Mercury Vapor "farm light" over his driveway.
Draw attention to stuff worth stealing? In that case, at least half the houses on my block are seductive temptresses to the vagaries of the thief's mind and effectively invisible to folks across the street - AND it's our fault. You may be right, but it comes across the wrong way (and I don't entirely agree with you).
I have a single, CPF floodlight that shines down onto the driveway, exposing my neighbors to a minimum of 'overspray'. In fact, my neighbor directly across the street has a noisy and bright "farm light". I can't say that I'm so sensitive that it keeps me from checking out the street.
As for the shotgunless cop, I'll drive by tonight to check out his lighting setup. In any case, it serves as an example to counter the idea that cruisers in a neighborhood are a crime deterrent.
quote:
Originally posted by buckeye
Draw attention to stuff worth stealing? In that case, at least half the houses on my block are seductive temptresses to the vagaries of the thief's mind and effectively invisible to folks across the street - AND it's our fault. You may be right, but it comes across the wrong way (and I don't entirely agree with you).
I have a single, CPF floodlight that shines down onto the driveway, exposing my neighbors to a minimum of 'overspray'. In fact, my neighbor directly across the street has a noisy and bright "farm light". I can't say that I'm so sensitive that it keeps me from checking out the street.
Once upon a time I too bought into the marketing hype and thought I was doing all my neighbors a favor with all the extra "coverage" my lights provided, but until you literally see it from their perspective you dont realize it's probably not your neighbors your actually helping.
What you seem to be describing is a Domino-effect that is sometimes described in lighting circles as
Ratcheting.
Ratcheting is often used to describe retailers who deliberately install brighter lighting than their competitors to lure more business. The competitor's counter with yet more lighting, and the cycle continues until some authority steps in with some sort of lumens cap or other ordinance.
Residential ratcheting is often well-intentioned but misguided attempts at making an area safer with inappropriate, out-of-scale or poorly-designed lighting that inadvertently causes neighboring homeowners to perceive their properties as now being much darker.
How does that happen?
The eye adapts to the brightest thing in it's field of view. If that happens to be a bright point-source light, that's what the eye adjusts to as it's surroundings then
appear darker. Use your hand to shield your eyes from the light source and the eye better adapts to those surroundings and night vision improves. Take that a step further and shield the light at it's source and you have a light that is more night-vision friendly.
...but more often than not, adjoining neighbors may install the same type of
unshielded lighting themselves just to "recover" their ability to see their own yards, while others will block out the view entirely with thick curtains (hampering the
natural surveillance necessary for an effective neighborhood watch).
The end result is patches of areas in a neighborhood brilliantly lit but with no one watching... except, of course, passing thieves now able to inventory their targets from the anonymity of their vehicles.
If you have a ratcheted neighborhood, I might suggest having a neighborhood block party where you get to meet everyone and possibly get a look at your homes from each others perspectives.
If you compare notes you might come to the collective conclusions that the lighting could be improved (and I dont mean just made brighter).
"Farm Lights" perform poorly over residential driveways (too much light too close to the ground) and can even be a nuisance atop a PSO pole. If you work to contain your illumination to within your property (shielding), you will be doing your neighbors a big favor (which could very well be repaid if you depend on them to keep an eye out).
quote:
As for the shotgunless cop, I'll drive by tonight to check out his lighting setup. In any case, it serves as an example to counter the idea that cruisers in a neighborhood are a crime deterrent.
He may have gotten a new shotgun by now (and maybe a new tactic on illuminating his driveway).
Hope you didnt take offense. We've all at one time drunk from the "lights fight crime" wishing well.
"Ratcheting" doesn't seem to be a problem in my neighborhood, but I will bring the topic up to the neighborhood association. They're actually pretty good about fostering community and so forth.
Because my neighbor's light is so bright, it's occurred to me that mine might also show up too much where it shouldn't. Since then, I've looked across the street from the other houses' perspectives and find my light is less obtrusive than most.
The thieves that hit cars in our block evidently don't care a thing about any lighting - they work their way down the street, checking cars one by one. I get the feeling that none of us see this from a criminal's perspective. As a result, there's a lot of moot talk about prevention.
In any case, I appreciate your advice.
Ohio used to have a big speed trap town (New Rome, Ohio) that was shut down by the state. It was a small crooked town that ran for about 40 years. They have a web site now www.newromesucks.com
A new state law prevents citizens from complaining about speed traps in Oklahoma.
http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=140946
Apparently you have to be an elected official now before you can petition for a redress of your grievances.
Wonder how many town officials are likely to turn in their cash cows?