I found my daugther 4 years ago we need the records opened. So I can have her added to my tribes membership. Need advice on how to open her records. thankyou[8D]
I'm afraid the complexity of this will require the hiring of an excellent adoption attorney. It is a specialized area (arent they all?) and you need expert advice. Contact the Tulsa County Bar Association for a reference.
Sorry I could not be of any more help, but I am not well versed on the law in this area.
You didn't mention your ages or any particulars, but opening "sealed" adoption records from a closed adoption requires a court order, and is next to impossible to obtain in Oklahoma. It practically has to be a life or death situation for a judge in Oklahoma to allow this. I don't think any judge would (correctly) allow it just for a tribal membership issue.
Cannon fodder is right, you need to consult an adoption attorney and see if your case is worth pursuing.
So is the poster the adopted mother or birth mother?
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
So is the poster the adopted mother or birth mother?
Just speculating, but I assume the poster is the birth mother and she wants "proof" that she is the birth mother of the child by getting a copy of the original birth certificate, thereby allowing the child to be enrolled in an Indian tribe. I don't think any court in OK would deem this a valid reason for opening sealed adoption records. That blood right for tribal membership was severed when the adoption was finalized.
I have an interest in these types of issues because I was an adopted child myself.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
So is the poster the adopted mother or birth mother?
Just speculating, but I assume the poster is the birth mother and she wants "proof" that she is the birth mother of the child by getting a copy of the original birth certificate, thereby allowing the child to be enrolled in an Indian tribe. I don't think any court in OK would deem this a valid reason for opening sealed adoption records. That blood right for tribal membership was severed when the adoption was finalized.
I have an interest in these types of issues because I was an adopted child myself.
I am the birth mother my daugther is 37 and I am 57.
Child Welfare Services Unit
Attention: Adoption Section
Department of Human Resources
P.O. Box 25352
Oklahoma City, OK 73125
Phone: (405) 521-3646
Some info on mutual consent in oklahoma:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/9606/states/oklahoma.html
quote:
Originally posted by sunny
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
So is the poster the adopted mother or birth mother?
Just speculating, but I assume the poster is the birth mother and she wants "proof" that she is the birth mother of the child by getting a copy of the original birth certificate, thereby allowing the child to be enrolled in an Indian tribe. I don't think any court in OK would deem this a valid reason for opening sealed adoption records. That blood right for tribal membership was severed when the adoption was finalized.
I have an interest in these types of issues because I was an adopted child myself.
I am the birth mother my daugther is 37 and I am 57.
I was born in 1957 in an OKC maternity home, and adopted as an infant and moved to Tulsa in Nov. 1957. So I know somewhat about these issues.
If your child was born in 1970 and it was a closed adoption (most likely), then you have very little hope of having the courts open the adoption records. Access to the child's original birth certificate is practically non-existent, as Oklahoma courts have consistently upheld the privacy rights of the original parties to the adoption, and the wishes of the child are always secondary. You have to prove a life-or-death medical emergency to get the court to open sealed adoptions records.
Some people have circumvented these restrictions by having "friends" in the court system or the DHS that can gain access to these records, illegal as it may be. If this is a real critical issue to you, that may be your only venue.
Oklahoma does maintain a mutual consent reunion registry for adoptive children and birth mothers. If both parties register and a match is made, the state will arrange a meeting with the consent of all parties. But the legal documents (original birth certificate, etc.) still remain forbidden sealed documents. Sad, horribly unfair as it is, that is the state of adoption law in Oklahoma.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by sunny
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
So is the poster the adopted mother or birth mother?
Just speculating, but I assume the poster is the birth mother and she wants "proof" that she is the birth mother of the child by getting a copy of the original birth certificate, thereby allowing the child to be enrolled in an Indian tribe. I don't think any court in OK would deem this a valid reason for opening sealed adoption records. That blood right for tribal membership was severed when the adoption was finalized.
I have an interest in these types of issues because I was an adopted child myself.
I am the birth mother my daugther is 37 and I am 57.
I was born in 1957 in an OKC maternity home, and adopted as an infant and moved to Tulsa in Nov. 1957. So I know somewhat about these issues.
If your child was born in 1970 and it was a closed adoption (most likely), then you have very little hope of having the courts open the adoption records. Access to the child's original birth certificate is practically non-existent, as Oklahoma courts have consistently upheld the privacy rights of the original parties to the adoption, and the wishes of the child are always secondary. You have to prove a life-or-death medical emergency to get the court to open sealed adoptions records.
Some people have circumvented these restrictions by having "friends" in the court system or the DHS that can gain access to these records, illegal as it may be. If this is a real critical issue to you, that may be your only venue.
There is no privacy in this issue. All of the information is already public knowledge.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by sunny
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
So is the poster the adopted mother or birth mother?
Just speculating, but I assume the poster is the birth mother and she wants "proof" that she is the birth mother of the child by getting a copy of the original birth certificate, thereby allowing the child to be enrolled in an Indian tribe. I don't think any court in OK would deem this a valid reason for opening sealed adoption records. That blood right for tribal membership was severed when the adoption was finalized.
I have an interest in these types of issues because I was an adopted child myself.
I am the birth mother my daugther is 37 and I am 57.
I was born in 1957 in an OKC maternity home, and adopted as an infant and moved to Tulsa in Nov. 1957. So I know somewhat about these issues.
If your child was born in 1970 and it was a closed adoption (most likely), then you have very little hope of having the courts open the adoption records. Access to the child's original birth certificate is practically non-existent, as Oklahoma courts have consistently upheld the privacy rights of the original parties to the adoption, and the wishes of the child are always secondary. You have to prove a life-or-death medical emergency to get the court to open sealed adoptions records.
Some people have circumvented these restrictions by having "friends" in the court system or the DHS that can gain access to these records, illegal as it may be. If this is a real critical issue to you, that may be your only venue.
There is no privacy in this issue. All of the information is already public knowledge.
I beg to differ, but the state will only provide non-identifying information about birth parents, and also provides a contact registry should both the birth mother and adopted child register and wish contact. Contact is arranged through a 3rd party intermediary. It is not "public knowledge" and closed adoption records remain closed in Oklahoma.
If you have some inside tract on how I, or any other Oklahoma adoptees, can obtain a copy of our original birth certificates, please let us know. We really would appreciate it!
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
I beg to differ, but the state will only provide non-identifying information about birth parents, and also provides a contact registry should both the birth mother and adopted child register and wish contact. Contact is arranged through a 3rd party intermediary. It is not "public knowledge" and closed adoption records remain closed in Oklahoma.
Ahem, Steve.
The person wanting to open the records IS THE BIRTH MOTHER.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
I beg to differ, but the state will only provide non-identifying information about birth parents, and also provides a contact registry should both the birth mother and adopted child register and wish contact. Contact is arranged through a 3rd party intermediary. It is not "public knowledge" and closed adoption records remain closed in Oklahoma.
Ahem, Steve.
The person wanting to open the records IS THE BIRTH MOTHER.
Ahem, sgrizzle.
The state of Oklahoma will arrange a contact meeting with birth mother and adopted child, should BOTH parties perchance register with the state contact registry. It makes no difference who initiates the contact request, the birth mother or the child. But the legal adoption records/documents remain closed as per the original adoption agreement. It still takes a court order from a sympathetic judge to open sealed adoption records in OK and gain access to the original birth certificate. The parties may eventually meet in person with assistance from the State, but to get copies of the legal documents (original birth certificate) requires a court order.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
I beg to differ, but the state will only provide non-identifying information about birth parents, and also provides a contact registry should both the birth mother and adopted child register and wish contact. Contact is arranged through a 3rd party intermediary. It is not "public knowledge" and closed adoption records remain closed in Oklahoma.
Ahem, Steve.
The person wanting to open the records IS THE BIRTH MOTHER.
Ahem, sgrizzle.
The state of Oklahoma will arrange a contact meeting with birth mother and adopted child, should both parties perchance register with the state contact registry. But the legal adoption records/documents remain closed as per the original adoption agreement. It still takes a court order from a sympathetic judge to open sealed adoption records in OK and gain access to the original birth certificate. The parties may eventually meet in person with assistance from the State, but to get the legal documents requires a court order.
In this case they've already met.... both sides of the adoption want the records open. Kinda stupid to force them to have a 3rd party mediator to setup a meeting when they've known each other for years.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
In this case they've already met.... both sides of the adoption want the records open. Kinda stupid to force them to have a 3rd party mediator to setup a meeting when they've known each other for years.
That is not the issue. According to Oklahoma law, even if the the birth parents and the adopted child have met and are currently "best buddies," they still need a court order to open any sealed adoption records and gain access to the child's original birth certificate. That's the way it is with 2007 Oklahoma adoption law, and it is much the same in many other states. I know it sounds dumb, especially if both parties consent, but that is how adoption law is in the U.S. today. That is why so many adult adoptees (myself included) are advocates of radical adoption law reform. They are denying us our identity.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
In this case they've already met.... both sides of the adoption want the records open. Kinda stupid to force them to have a 3rd party mediator to setup a meeting when they've known each other for years.
That is not the issue. According to Oklahoma law, even if the the birth parents and the adopted child have met and are currently "best buddies," they still need a court order to open any sealed adoption records and gain access to the child's original birth certificate. That's the way it is with 2007 Oklahoma adoption law, and it is much the same in many other states.
I understand they still have to have a court order to open the records and sign agreements from both parties, but they obviously don't need an intermediary to setup a meeting like you were suggesting.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
I understand they still have to have a court order to open the records and sign agreements from both parties, but they obviously don't need an intermediary to setup a meeting like you were suggesting.
We are kind of getting carried away here, but the original message posted by sunny stated that she and her birth daughter have already met. That is a given. My point is that she has little hope of getting a court to open the adoption records and giving her access to her daughter's original birth certificate so she can have the girl enrolled on Indian tribal roles. This is not a reason that Oklahoma courts will deem valid to open sealed adoption records. It usually must be a life or death type of situation. As insane as it all may seem, regardless if the birth parents and adult child know each other, in a closed adoption in Oklahoma, the records always remain closed for any but the most dire reason. The birth mother and child may both consent to have the records opened, but the courts will not allow it.
This thread got away from Sunny's original request, but I think it was answered correctly. They must get a court order.
I have been reading posts for awhile but registered due to this thread. We adopted our 6-year-old after being her foster parents. I think the rationale behind the "joint consent" rule is that sometimes adoptive parents want privacy on this issue. Believe me, I understand from personal experience that a child wants to know where they come from. However, to encourage adoption, rather than other means of terminating parenthood, the State decided that it would give the parent the option to remain anonymous if they chose adoption. Children essentially have the same right to stay anonymous. That is why the joint registry was created. If both sides want to find one another, they can.
I'm not trying to argue it's right or wrong, but just trying to offer the other side of the coin. The State always tries to balance these rights, and when it does, there are always some people who will lose.
Sunny, does your tribe accept DNA testing results as proof of Indian blood? One avenue you may ivestigate is DNA testing. I don't know what tribal rules are for membership and if they accept DNA testing as proof, but a DNA test could prove she is the mother of the child and at least prove the minimum amount of Indian blood the child has. Say if sunny is 1/4 Indian blood, then a DNA test could prove she is the mother and the child must be at least 1/8 Indian blood, right? If the results prove the child does not have the minimum blood standard, then the biological father would be needed to show the child's exact percentage of Indian blood. If the father's participation is not possible, then she may just be out of luck.
If tribal law will accept DNA testing in lieu of the original birth certificate, then it doesn't matter what Oklahoma adoption laws are and the original birth certificate would not be needed. A DNA test would only cost $200-$300 and prove maternity and the minimum Indian blood of the child. Just some thoughts.
Thanks for all of your input on this matter.
The DNA will be the best way to go I think.I will have to talk to my tribe also, we are a small tribe of about 2500. THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by sunny
Thanks for all of your input on this matter.
The DNA will be the best way to go I think.I will have to talk to my tribe also, we are a small tribe of about 2500. THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!
Yes, check to see with your tribe if DNA testing is sufficient proof for tribal membership. DNA test results are so often used these days in court matters, so you stand a chance of circumventing Oklahoma adoption laws entirely! If your tribal courts will not accept DNA test results, maybe you will be the catalyst for change in the tribal laws.
I am glad you were able to find your daughter. I hope it was a happy reunion. I was an adopted child myself in Oklahoma, 50 years ago, and have been unable so far to contact my birth parents. I wish you luck with your endeavor.