Mayor Kathy Taylor finally does something right, which is to end Tulsa's sanctuary policy for illegals. The most amazing thing about the article title is the fact it is titled "Police may help find illegals",they actually call illegals "illegals" instead of "undocumented workers",undocumented immigrants",immigrants",or "undocumented americans".
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=d994510e-ab85-49cc-94ae-5d127281bee0
The intent is to stop the illegals involved in the worst crimes. If approved, the plan would require Tulsa police officers to ask anyone arrested for a felony if they are in this country legally.
snip..
City councilman John Eagleton and Mayor Kathy Taylor worked together to write the resolution. "I'm unaware of any compelling reason why the city of Tulsa should not be protecting its citizens", Eagleton said.
The resolution requires Tulsa police officers to ask anyone arrested for a felony if they're in the country legally. And if they can't prove that they are, immigration officials will be called.
That's something that isn't happening now. "We occasionally arrest them for felonies but we don't bother to tell the federal government that they're here and how many of them there are", Eagleton said.
I have issues with ignoring the law.
But I also hope the police don't get sidetracked hunting illegals instead of worrying about more dangerous crimes. I'd rather they worry about property crimes than this, let alone our violent crime issues.
Enforcement at the local level is a community expense and a backside patch. I'm afraid it is not likely to be effective in the long run. Unless we are so draconian that the words reaches Mexico "not to go to Tulsa." I'm not so sure that reputation would serve us well either.
I don't think it will turn into a round-up though Hispanic community leaders will spread fear that it is and all these Hispanics will be brutalized.
Looks like it's only designed to identify who is and isn't here legally after an arrest on a felony.
All it will do is make some Hispanics not report crime. Whether they are here legally or not. A Hispanic person who is a fairly new citizen, may think twice about helping someone in a car accident for fear of being harassed by the cops because he has a Mexican accident.
quote:
Originally posted by DM
All it will do is make some Hispanics not report crime.
Small price to pay for enforcing the law. I'll take it in trade for the illegals who drive without insurance.
This isn't a round-up. This applies to people who are arrested for breaking the law.
At the very LEAST we should be rounding up illegals who commit crimes. That is something everyone should agree on. You may not realize it, but often times a Spanish speaking invididual will be involved in a car wreck and be obviously DUI, but nothing will be done and he will be turned loose. Why? The police will have a "theres nothing we can do about it" policy. If that changes, then this is wonderful news. This doesn't even say "Hey, we're going to start looking for illegals" - This only states that if you get busted committing a crime, immigration services will be informed.
Sadly, it only says that they will be informed. So it is STILL up to the federal immigration forces to even DO anything about it. That is no promise, for sure.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
quote:
Originally posted by DM
All it will do is make some Hispanics not report crime.
Small price to pay for enforcing the law. I'll take it in trade for the illegals who drive without insurance.
I will remember that when police ask for witnesses to come forward to a homicide or something like that and the only witness does not want to come forward for this very reason.
Small price...yeah. [B)]
Just to clarify, I do support rounding up illegals. But not by our police department. They have a job to keep our city safe and investigate crimes. Seems border patrol or immigration should be rounding up illegals.
quote:
Originally posted by DM
I will remember that when police ask for witnesses to come forward to a homicide or something like that and the only witness does not want to come forward for this very reason.
Small price...yeah. [B)]
What part of this discussion has anything to do with what you're talking about? Not enforcing the law and putting our citizens at risk simply because of rediculous hypotheticals. You're willing to sacrifice the enforcing of the law and protection of Tulsans because, on the off chance, you may have a handful of incidents per year where people won't cooperate as witnesses. Welcome to North Tulsa, and I don't hear people complaining about that. Time to leave the land of theory.
When the federal government abdicates its responsibility to enforce the law and we suffer as a result of it, the State has every right to step in and fill the gaps if for no other reason than to stop the bleeding. Nothing that is being proposed precludes the Feds from getting their act together.
quote:
Originally posted by DM
Just to clarify, I do support rounding up illegals. But not by our police department. They have a job to keep our city safe and investigate crimes. Seems border patrol or immigration should be rounding up illegals.
Just to clarify, the police department is not going to be actively searching for and rounding up illegals.
They will be enforcing the usual laws and protecting the public. Now they will ask a person to prove legal status, if they cannot, INS is to be contacted and handle them from there.
Nothing more, nothing less. I don't read anything into it which would keep police from doing their duties and won't tie them up more than an extra 5-10 minutes in booking.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
quote:
Originally posted by DM
I will remember that when police ask for witnesses to come forward to a homicide or something like that and the only witness does not want to come forward for this very reason.
Small price...yeah. [B)]
What part of this discussion has anything to do with what you're talking about?
quote:
All it will do is make some Hispanics not report crime. Whether they are here legally or not. A Hispanic person who is a fairly new citizen, may think twice about helping someone in a car accident for fear of being harassed by the cops because he has a Mexican accident.
Just thought you may want to read this again as it has direct relation to your previous small price to pay comment.
quote:
Welcome to North Tulsa, and I don't hear people complaining about that.
And this seems to be working so well for North Tulsa doesnt it?
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
They will be enforcing the usual laws and protecting the public. Now they will ask a person to prove legal status, if they cannot, INS is to be contacted and handle them from there.
And who will they ask? Just the brown people right? So if you are white, then this has nothing to do with you and we know that no white person has ever done any terrorist or major crime before. Right.
quote:
Originally posted by DM
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
They will be enforcing the usual laws and protecting the public. Now they will ask a person to prove legal status, if they cannot, INS is to be contacted and handle them from there.
And who will they ask? Just the brown people right? So if you are white, then this has nothing to do with you and we know that no white person has ever done any terrorist or major crime before. Right.
Why are you assuming this? I think the Fort Dix situation argues against you. Do you have any proof to back up this claim, or are you just prematurely attributing racist motives before the law is even enacted?
What's wrong with this law if everyone that's arrested has to prove citizenship. It's a low threshold of proof to prove your legality.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
quote:
Originally posted by DM
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
They will be enforcing the usual laws and protecting the public. Now they will ask a person to prove legal status, if they cannot, INS is to be contacted and handle them from there.
And who will they ask? Just the brown people right? So if you are white, then this has nothing to do with you and we know that no white person has ever done any terrorist or major crime before. Right.
Why are you assuming this? I think the Fort Dix situation argues against you. Do you have any proof to back up this claim, or are you just prematurely attributing racist motives before the law is even enacted?
What's wrong with this law if everyone that's arrested has to prove citizenship. It's a low threshold of proof to prove your legality.
My apologies. (and don't get use to that either but I will admit when I am wrong. lol!) I misread the article.
quote:
If approved, the plan would require Tulsa police officers to ask anyone arrested for a felony if they are in this country legally
Moving along.
[;)]
I was beginning to think you were just Hometown's sock puppet for the day...[;)]
quote:
Originally posted by DM
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
quote:
Originally posted by DM
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
They will be enforcing the usual laws and protecting the public. Now they will ask a person to prove legal status, if they cannot, INS is to be contacted and handle them from there.
And who will they ask? Just the brown people right? So if you are white, then this has nothing to do with you and we know that no white person has ever done any terrorist or major crime before. Right.
Why are you assuming this? I think the Fort Dix situation argues against you. Do you have any proof to back up this claim, or are you just prematurely attributing racist motives before the law is even enacted?
What's wrong with this law if everyone that's arrested has to prove citizenship. It's a low threshold of proof to prove your legality.
My apologies. (and don't get use to that either but I will admit when I am wrong. lol!) I misread the article.
quote:
If approved, the plan would require Tulsa police officers to ask anyone arrested for a felony if they are in this country legally
Moving along.
[;)]
Thank God you re-read it before they get to Reverend Orta's sound bites on the afternoon drive news. He will make it sound like a "brown round-up" and paint images of brutalized Hispanics. Nothing like a little mis-informed hysteria. [;)]
quote:
Originally posted by jamesrage
Mayor Kathy Taylor finally does something right, which is to end Tulsa's sanctuary policy for illegals. The most amazing thing about the article title is the fact it is titled "Police may help find illegals",they actually call illegals "illegals" instead of "undocumented workers",undocumented immigrants",immigrants",or "undocumented americans".
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=d994510e-ab85-49cc-94ae-5d127281bee0
The intent is to stop the illegals involved in the worst crimes. If approved, the plan would require Tulsa police officers to ask anyone arrested for a felony if they are in this country legally.
snip..
City councilman John Eagleton and Mayor Kathy Taylor worked together to write the resolution. "I'm unaware of any compelling reason why the city of Tulsa should not be protecting its citizens", Eagleton said.
The resolution requires Tulsa police officers to ask anyone arrested for a felony if they're in the country legally. And if they can't prove that they are, immigration officials will be called.
That's something that isn't happening now. "We occasionally arrest them for felonies but we don't bother to tell the federal government that they're here and how many of them there are", Eagleton said.
And how many times did you worry about this issue before 9/11?
Hmmm??
Its amazing how a few Saudi terrorists managed to bring down the world trade towers, destroy the U.S. constitution, ruin a presidency, and make America such a hateful neighbor, all in one day!
Its pretty ironic if you think about it.
Show me, Jamesrage, that you ever posted on this topic anywhere before 9/11/01, and that you are not a victim of talk-radio propaganda, and then I'll be truly amazed.
Your signature justs smacks of Babylon 5 Nightwatch. It is truly scary. If the government asked you to, I'm sure you'd have no problem kicking down peoples' doors at night and hauling them off to be tortured at the police station, because nothing is worse than a traitor, or so you say.
Let me see if I can come up with a simple sig like yours... okay here's a good one:
-------
Every war results from the struggle for markets and spheres of influence, and every war is sold to the public by professional liars and totally sincere religious maniacs, as a Holy Crusade to save God and Goodness from Satan and Evil.
--Robert Anton Wilson
When did anyone mention security in this thread? I think there is a convincing enough argument that can be made for this law even without playing the terrorism card. It would be important to note here that the illegals involved in the Fort Dix fiasco crossed the Mexican border into Brownsville.
Tell ya what, though: These illegals often have a better work ethic than some people.
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
Tell ya what, though: These illegals often have a better work ethic than some people.
I don't know that anyone is disputing that.
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
Tell ya what, though: These illegals often have a better work ethic than some people.
Still doesn't change the "illegal" aspect of their existence here.
Good work ethic appears to be inherent to their culture. They will also do work others won't or consider beneath them. Ever been inside a meat packing or animal by-product rendering plant? Yeech!
Ever notice how you never hear "lazy Mexican" jokes anymore?
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
Tell ya what, though: These illegals often have a better work ethic than some people.
Good work ethic appears to be inherent to their culture.
Ever notice how you never hear "lazy Mexican" jokes anymore?
And that's not even the half of it: the quality of work is often comparable or even superior.
quote:
Originally posted by DM
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
They will be enforcing the usual laws and protecting the public. Now they will ask a person to prove legal status, if they cannot, INS is to be contacted and handle them from there.
And who will they ask? Just the brown people right? So if you are white, then this has nothing to do with you and we know that no white person has ever done any terrorist or major crime before. Right.
I'm curious how most of you are going to prove your citizenship. What do you carry on your person that identifies you as a US citizen? What do you have at home that proves you are a US citizen? Sounds like the only people who can actually prove citizenship are those who are here on visas because they are issued papers by the government proving they are here legally.
quote:
Originally posted by South_Tulsan
And how many times did you worry about this issue before 9/11?
And this is relevant how?This is not relevant.
quote:
Its amazing how a few Saudi terrorists managed to bring down the world trade towers, destroy the U.S. constitution, ruin a presidency, and make America such a hateful neighbor, all in one day!
Its pretty ironic if you think about it.
When did wanting our borders secured equal to hatred and destroying the US constitution? Last tie I checked illegals are not citizens.Mexico secures their southern border and has tougher immigration laws than we do.Does than mean Mexico hates central and south America and the rest of the world?
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/lillpop022707.htm
# in the country legally;
# have the means to sustain themselves economically;
# not destined to be burdens on society;
# of economic and social benefit to society;
# of good character and have no criminal records; and
# contributors to the general well-being of the nation.
The law also ensures that:
# immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;
# foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;
# foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country's internal politics;
# foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;
# foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;
# those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.
#
Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:
# Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress." (Article 32)
# Immigration officials must "ensure" that "immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents. (Article 34)
# Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics," when foreigners are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when "they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy." (Article 37)
# The Secretary of Governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest." (Article 38)
Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:
# Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)
# A National Population Registry keeps track of "every single individual who comprises the population of the country," and verifies each individual's identity. (Articles 85 and 86)
# A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91).
Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:
# Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)
# Foreigners who sign government documents "with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses" are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)
Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:
# Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)
# Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)
# Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico -- such as working with out a permit -- can also be imprisoned.
Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,
# "A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." (Article 123)
# Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)
# Foreigners who "attempt against national sovereignty or security" will be deported. (Article 126)
Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:
# A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)
# Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)
quote:
Show me, Jamesrage, that you ever posted on this topic anywhere before 9/11/01, and that you are not a victim of talk-radio propaganda, and then I'll be truly amazed.
Before 9/11 I was not into politics I didn't even a computer,internet or any of that **** and during 9/11 I was busy serving in the US Army and the illegal immigration problem and lack of border security is not something the media generally advertises that much.If the media advertised the illegal immigration problem and the lack of border security every day like they do Iraq,something would actually be done about the border and all those illegals would be kicked out and the anchor baby practice would end right now.
Where did you come up with this dee dee dee retarded notion that one has to listen to talk radio in order to care about illegal immigration and our borders?Hell if knew we had a problem back then,I would have cared about the issue of illegal immigration and the lack of border security back then just as I do today. 12-20 million people illegally in this country is a huge problem.State and local governments should do the job that the federal government won't do.Isn't ironic that the traitors in the federal government use that line "they just doing the jobs Americans won't do" and state and local governments have to do the jobs that the federal government won't do?
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I'm curious how most of you are going to prove your citizenship. What do you carry on your person that identifies you as a US citizen?
Social security card,U.S. birth certificate and a Oklahoma driver's license. Last time I checked illegals do not have any of those and with the age of computers those things can be verified.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I'm curious how most of you are going to prove your citizenship. What do you carry on your person that identifies you as a US citizen?
First-off, I don't plan on committing any felonies. Other than that, I only carry my OK DL on me unless I'm travelling out of the country. The last thing I want is for some crook to steal my wallet and wind up with both my DL and SS card. I definitely don't keep my birth certificate in my truck.
Should I assume from your question that the police are scratching their heads on how they are going to verify citizenship?
quote:
Originally posted by jamesrage
Social security card,U.S. birth certificate and a Oklahoma driver's license. Last time I checked illegals do not have any of those and with the age of computers those things can be verified.
With the age of computers it's easy to fake these things too. That's a large reason so many illegals are able to hoodwink honest employers and how dishonest employers are able to claim ignorance.
I carry a state-issued DL which carries with it the understanding that at some previous point I supplied the necessary documentation.
I heard our do-nothing Congressman mention on some radio show this morning that without the TPD documenting the number of catch-and-releases that an ICE office is unlikely. I wonder if he and the Sherriff have ever had their sit-down to arrange funding to 'train' the deputies how to arrest illegals. I wonder why the FOP has been dragging its feet on the issue. I wonder if there will be only harsh words at the Council meeting tonight or if the time has come that hot-heads and gas-bags converge and detonate.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
Tell ya what, though: These illegals often have a better work ethic than some people.
I don't know that anyone is disputing that.
I dispute that, if you are trying to imply that legal workers don't. I know plenty of legal workers that have a work horse work ethic. Union businesses and workers are some of the best in the state. You have to be, to stay in business in a corrupt sanctuary state like Oklahoma, where they compete with illegal low wage employers utilizing all available means to cheat the system and exploit their workers.
quote:
Originally posted by jamesrage
quote:
Originally posted by South_Tulsan
And how many times did you worry about this issue before 9/11?
And this is relevant how?This is not relevant.
LOL, it certainly is because it shows that your way of thinking on this issue has been conditioned by the Hannity's and Ingram's of the talk radio world.
As for whatever else you wrote, cliff notes, please.
I did notice from another thread that you throw the word "traitor" around seemingly at the drop of a hat. Members of Congress I think you were referring to.
Another example of your weak-minded capitulation to far right propaganda.
9/11 isn't relevant to the conversation any more than burritos are just because we're talking about people from Mexico. He did not bring up the issue, and never made a reference to terrorism. Go fish.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
9/11 isn't relevant to the conversation any more than burritos are just because we're talking about people from Mexico. He did not bring up the issue, and never made a reference to terrorism. Go fish.
It is because talk-radio brought this issue to us using 9/11. Before 9/11, I don't remember this issue having such spark.
I posted some really good thoughts on the subject of illegal immigration last month, but the thread went sour and the moderator nuked the whole thing.
Hawkins, this issue has been kicking around since the '80's. It ratchets up a little more from time-to-time.
Hardly post 9/11 unless that's when you started listening to talk radio.
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
It is because talk-radio brought this issue to us using 9/11. Before 9/11, I don't remember this issue having such spark.
Then you weren't paying attention before 9/11. This is a cyclical issue.
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
quote:
Originally posted by jamesrage
quote:
Originally posted by South_Tulsan
And how many times did you worry about this issue before 9/11?
And this is relevant how?This is not relevant.
LOL, it certainly is because it shows that your way of thinking on this issue has been conditioned by the Hannity's and Ingram's of the talk radio world.
As for whatever else you wrote, cliff notes, please.
I did notice from another thread that you throw the word "traitor" around seemingly at the drop of a hat. Members of Congress I think you were referring to.
Another example of your weak-minded capitulation to far right propaganda.
Hannity and Ingraham are little better than propoganda-spewing partisan demagogues-and I've listened to them and know from whence I speak. The fact that there are people whose worldview is shaped by these....individuals...is distressing indeed.
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
Tell ya what, though: These illegals often have a better work ethic than some people.
I don't know that anyone is disputing that.
I dispute that, if you are trying to imply that legal workers don't. I know plenty of legal workers that have a work horse work ethic. Union businesses and workers are some of the best in the state. You have to be, to stay in business in a corrupt sanctuary state like Oklahoma, where they compete with illegal low wage employers utilizing all available means to cheat the system and exploit their workers.
Not saying that, but now that I think about it, I remember first-hand returning to Tulsa after Katrina, and briefly working banquets while there, and of an instance where we had a gaggle of illegals setting up the rooms alongside some other people. The other people stood around and worked "a little," but the illegals just plowed right in. They got the job done alot faster, because they knew they were there to work. The others, well....And that's just about anywhere. The illegals seem thankful for the opprtunity to weork, while others seem to take it as a given.
You speak in offensive stereotypes that have no foundation in reality. No group of people can be generalized like this as a whole. Not all illegal immigrants are law abiding hardworkers, not all legal workers are lazy slackers. The real issue is illegal immigrants work cheaper, not harder. Are these cost savings passed on to the consumer? No, these ill-gotten profits pad the pockets of illegal employers. The real victims are the honest, legitimate, businesses and workers that operate in accordance with the law who are forced to compete against these illegal employers and the illegal workers they exploit.
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
LOL, it certainly is because it shows that your way of thinking on this issue has been conditioned by the Hannity's and Ingram's of the talk radio world.
I feel the same way about illegal immigration when I hear about it on ABC,NBC or some other liberal news network,which they do mention it every once in a blue moon.12-20 million people in this country illegally is a serious problem.You have to be a dee dee dee moron to think that it is no problem that 12-20 million people can just walk into this country and with the problem getting worse every day.
quote:
I did notice from another thread that you throw the word "traitor" around seemingly at the drop of a hat. Members of Congress I think you were referring to.
I think it is treasonous to encourage a invasion.12-20 million people entering our country illegally with the number growing bigger every day is an invasion and for people in office and for scumbag employers to be encouraging it a threat to sovereignty and country by either hiring illegals or trying to give them benefits or amnesty is treasonous.
quote:
Another example of your weak-minded capitulation to far right propaganda.
People regardless if they are liberal or conservative have been pissed about illegal immigration for a a long time.They were pissed about it 20 years ago when they passed the Reagan amnesty and they are still pissed about it now.Your attempt to blow this off as some sort of by-product of conservative radio is absurd,it is almost as shameful as trying to throw the race,xenophobe,anti-immigrant or anti-Hispanic card falsely into the debate.I guess trying to throw race into the mix is not working for you. So you pro-illegals decided to make it seem as though this illegal immigration debate is a result and imagination of some sort of right wing propaganda.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
Tell ya what, though: These illegals often have a better work ethic than some people.
I don't know that anyone is disputing that.
I dispute that, if you are trying to imply that legal workers don't. I know plenty of legal workers that have a work horse work ethic. Union businesses and workers are some of the best in the state. You have to be, to stay in business in a corrupt sanctuary state like Oklahoma, where they compete with illegal low wage employers utilizing all available means to cheat the system and exploit their workers.
Not saying that, but now that I think about it, I remember first-hand returning to Tulsa after Katrina, and briefly working banquets while there, and of an instance where we had a gaggle of illegals setting up the rooms alongside some other people. The other people stood around and worked "a little," but the illegals just plowed right in. They got the job done alot faster, because they knew they were there to work. The others, well....And that's just about anywhere. The illegals seem thankful for the opprtunity to weork, while others seem to take it as a given.
You speak in offensive stereotypes that have no foundation in reality. No group of people can be generalized like this as a whole. Not all illegal immigrants are law abiding hardworkers, not all legal workers are lazy slackers. The real issue is illegal immigrants work cheaper, not harder. Are these cost savings passed on to the consumer? No, these ill-gotten profits pad the pockets of illegal employers. The real victims are the honest, legitimate, businesses and workers that operate in accordance with the law who are forced to compete against these illegal employers and the illegal workers they exploit.
Not my intent at all, but I see your point.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I'm curious how most of you are going to prove your citizenship. What do you carry on your person that identifies you as a US citizen?
First-off, I don't plan on committing any felonies. Other than that, I only carry my OK DL on me unless I'm travelling out of the country. The last thing I want is for some crook to steal my wallet and wind up with both my DL and SS card. I definitely don't keep my birth certificate in my truck.
Should I assume from your question that the police are scratching their heads on how they are going to verify citizenship?
quote:
Originally posted by jamesrage
Social security card,U.S. birth certificate and a Oklahoma driver's license. Last time I checked illegals do not have any of those and with the age of computers those things can be verified.
With the age of computers it's easy to fake these things too. That's a large reason so many illegals are able to hoodwink honest employers and how dishonest employers are able to claim ignorance.
I thought it was illegal to drive without your drivers license on you while your driving?
"Social security card,U.S. birth certificate and a Oklahoma driver's license. Last time I checked illegals do not have any of those and with the age of computers those things can be verified."
^
That is a recipe for an "Identity Thief's Dream Machine"
But what the heck you will be able to prove you are a U.S. Citizen....
If you do not want the worries of "ID Theft".... You might give a Passport a try.
[}:)]
Can't wait for rage to paint me as "pro-illegal", but here's my thoughts:
I would be concerned over the amount of time and resources it would take for police to check citizenship on every misdemeanor offense. Perhaps a reasonable approach would be to create a list of misdemeanors where police check citizenship -- DUI, larceny, etc.
This amounts to an unfunded mandate and I for one am not all that keen on doing the feds' job at the local level. But checking citizenship on all felony arrests and specific misdemeanor arrests would be a step in the right direction.
Somebody also brought up a good point -- is the local federal office prepared to handle the influx of cases the police will turn over to them? If not, we're REALLY wasting our time (and taxpayer money).
quote:
Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
Can't wait for rage to paint me as "pro-illegal", but here's my thoughts:
I would be concerned over the amount of time and resources it would take for police to check citizenship on every misdemeanor offense. Perhaps a reasonable approach would be to create a list of misdemeanors where police check citizenship -- DUI, larceny, etc.
From the city hall meeting I seen on tv it would only take a minute or two to check for citizenship.
Originally posted by Wilbur
"I'm curious how most of you are going to prove your citizenship. What do you carry on your person that identifies you as a US citizen? What do you have at home that proves you are a US citizen? Sounds like the only people who can actually prove citizenship are those who are here on visas because they are issued papers by the government proving they are here legally."
What I plan on doing is carrying nothing at all that indicates I am a US Citizen... furthermore...... I plan to speak only Spanish and act very nervous.....
When I decide I have had enough "vacaciones"
I guess I will stumble into the office of the nearest American Consulat.... and claim I have been the victim of a case of mistaken identity...
[}:)]
Leaders clarify status check
Mayor Kathy Taylor stressed to U.S. Rep. John Sullivan and other federal officials Thursday that the Tulsa Jail conducts immigration status checks for felony and most misdemeanor arrests.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070601_1_A1_lease54884
According to the article, status checks are already being done, but were reported incorrectly. According to KOTV, the police had the wrong phone number for ICE.
Does anyone else find that odd? They had the wrong phone number? Did they try 411?
quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
Leaders clarify status check
Mayor Kathy Taylor stressed to U.S. Rep. John Sullivan and other federal officials Thursday that the Tulsa Jail conducts immigration status checks for felony and most misdemeanor arrests.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070601_1_A1_lease54884
According to the article, status checks are already being done, but were reported incorrectly. According to KOTV, the police had the wrong phone number for ICE.
Does anyone else find that odd? They had the wrong phone number? Did they try 411?
And does anyone really believe that B.S.? You're going to tell me that police officers for how many years have been calling a telephone number that was wrong and nobody on either end of all those telephone conversations ever realized someone called a wrong number? Please!! Give me a break! SPIN!!
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
Leaders clarify status check
Mayor Kathy Taylor stressed to U.S. Rep. John Sullivan and other federal officials Thursday that the Tulsa Jail conducts immigration status checks for felony and most misdemeanor arrests.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070601_1_A1_lease54884
According to the article, status checks are already being done, but were reported incorrectly. According to KOTV, the police had the wrong phone number for ICE.
Does anyone else find that odd? They had the wrong phone number? Did they try 411?
And does anyone really believe that B.S.? You're going to tell me that police officers for how many years have been calling a telephone number that was wrong and nobody on either end of all those telephone conversations ever realized someone called a wrong number? Please!! Give me a break! SPIN!!
Wrong number, heh.
"Hola! Dis ees immigracion department er uh service, how may I help you por favor?"
"Yes, this is Officer Schmeckelheckel with the David Moss Correctional Center in Tulsa. We have one Juan Doe in our custody. Can you please check his immigration status?"
"Oh, Juan Doe, no need to check, I know hees here legally. Gracias! Adios!"
[}:)][}:)]
The more I read about this issue, however, the more I think it's a tempest in a teapot.
-- The council's resolution on checking those arrested on whether they're legal residents is NONBINDING, which means it's essentially worthless. Why didn't the council try to fashion a resolution that actually meant something?
-- Sullivan, Inhofe and Coburn chimed in on a nonbinding resolution that has no real impact. Making political hay and shoveling the B.S., anyone?
-- Sullivan says that cops will look at green cards or driver's licenses to check for proper citizenship. Never mind that many, many illegal immigrants already use phony green cards and licenses that are hard to distinguish from the real things. So that so-called "solution" is pretty useless, too.
-- And, as others have mentioned, controlling the borders and illegal immigration is a federal matter. Lord knows that the local cops have enough things to deal with.
Listen, I want a solution to deal with illegal immigrants like everyone else. But I want a solution, not useless posturing, which is what this whole sorry episode is.
quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
Leaders clarify status check
Mayor Kathy Taylor stressed to U.S. Rep. John Sullivan and other federal officials Thursday that the Tulsa Jail conducts immigration status checks for felony and most misdemeanor arrests.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070601_1_A1_lease54884
According to the article, status checks are already being done, but were reported incorrectly. According to KOTV, the police had the wrong phone number for ICE.
Does anyone else find that odd? They had the wrong phone number? Did they try 411?
This is not surprising to me. When elected officials want to avoid doing their duty or the will of the people they find a convenient excuse like this to provide cover for their covert manipulation of public policy. Scrivener error, wrong number, it's all the same. Maybe I am too cynical or not naive enough to believe that these poor politicians are merely unsuspecting victims of circumstance in this process without any culpability in this misdirection. Taylor can try it, but I don't buy it.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
The more I read about this issue, however, the more I think it's a tempest in a teapot.
-- The council's resolution on checking those arrested on whether they're legal residents is NONBINDING, which means it's essentially worthless. Why didn't the council try to fashion a resolution that actually meant something?
-- Sullivan, Inhofe and Coburn chimed in on a nonbinding resolution that has no real impact. Making political hay and shoveling the B.S., anyone?
-- Sullivan says that cops will look at green cards or driver's licenses to check for proper citizenship. Never mind that many, many illegal immigrants already use phony green cards and licenses that are hard to distinguish from the real things. So that so-called "solution" is pretty useless, too.
-- And, as others have mentioned, controlling the borders and illegal immigration is a federal matter. Lord knows that the local cops have enough things to deal with.
Listen, I want a solution to deal with illegal immigrants like everyone else. But I want a solution, not useless posturing, which is what this whole sorry episode is.
This whole deal from Tulsa to D.C. has turned into a window dressing issue. The latest read on the bill in D.C. doesn't sound like any real solution and the citizens are being sold out for votes in '08.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
The more I read about this issue, however, the more I think it's a tempest in a teapot.
-- The council's resolution on checking those arrested on whether they're legal residents is NONBINDING, which means it's essentially worthless. Why didn't the council try to fashion a resolution that actually meant something?
-- Sullivan, Inhofe and Coburn chimed in on a nonbinding resolution that has no real impact. Making political hay and shoveling the B.S., anyone?
-- Sullivan says that cops will look at green cards or driver's licenses to check for proper citizenship. Never mind that many, many illegal immigrants already use phony green cards and licenses that are hard to distinguish from the real things. So that so-called "solution" is pretty useless, too.
-- And, as others have mentioned, controlling the borders and illegal immigration is a federal matter. Lord knows that the local cops have enough things to deal with.
Listen, I want a solution to deal with illegal immigrants like everyone else. But I want a solution, not useless posturing, which is what this whole sorry episode is.
Now this guy gets it! The Feds have told local police over and over again, they don't want to hear from anyone if the illegal is a petty criminal. So now Tulsa is going to start calling them and will be told over and over again by the Feds "we don't want them." Big fat waste of time.
Nothing in the State's new law nor the City's new resolution forces the Feds to take custody of any illegal. Those three agents in Oklahoma City covering all of Oklahoma have bigger fish to fry.
Sullivan says the Feds might put agents in Tulsa if they realized how many illegals are here. It's no secret that number is estimated at 35,000. There. Now open an ICE office in Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
-- Sullivan says that cops will look at green cards or driver's licenses to check for proper citizenship. Never mind that many, many illegal immigrants already use phony green cards and licenses that are hard to distinguish from the real things.
I am sure the police type the driver's license and green card information into their computer when the pull someone over for something.So having a bogus green card and or driver's license might be kind of hard to pull when the police can verify by computer if the information is correct.Some may have figured out a way around this problem but most probably have not.
quote:
So that so-called "solution" is pretty useless, too.
If it gets a ICE office here and possibly deports illegals it doesn't sound useless.
quote:
-- And, as others have mentioned, controlling the borders and illegal immigration is a federal matter. Lord knows that the local cops have enough things to deal with.
And what exactly is the government doing on the federal level?Is that Zilch except for maybe the occasional token arrest? So wouldn't logic dictate that if you really were against illegal immigration that you would want the states and local governments to do their part to crack down on illegal immigration since the feds refuse to do **** about it except for making it worse?
quote:
Listen, I want a solution to deal with illegal immigrants like everyone else. But I want a solution, not useless posturing, which is what this whole sorry episode is.
Seeing you spew the ever popular line that pro-illegals spew such as "
it's only the federal government's job" or "
it's only the federal government's problem" ,the only solution I can picture you wanting is some guy at the border handing out instant citizenship to anyone who crosses.It is the states and local governments business to deal with illegal immigration just as much as it is the federal government's job because it is the citizens who live in the states and cities that have to deal with illegals.So no one who is really against illegal immigration spews the "it's only the federal government's job or problem".