This from Channel 8...
Tulsa's FOP Worried Over Mayor's New Budget
Tuesday May 01, 2007 9:26pm Reporter: Abby Ross
Mayor's New Budget Includes Rate Hikes, Golf Cuts
Tulsa - Tulsa Mayor Kathy Taylor laid out her plan for more police officers on the street. But, not everyone in uniform likes the idea. NewsChannel 8's Abby Ross spoke to officers, some who are worried about the big picture.
Most people like to see patrol cars in their neighborhood. But, under the mayor's proposed budget, some officers are worried they might not be there in the future. "We'll put more officers on our streets..."
That was Mayor Taylor's promise to the community one year ago. Now one year later, we ask you, do you think she lived up to that promise? "What has she done," asks Doug Sawyer. "Crime is rampant in North Tulsa. I have a concealed carry permit. I carry my own gun. She's not doing squat for me."
"I think she's doing all right," says Tom Cameron. "I think she's doing pretty good." Deputy Mayor Tom Baker showed us the numbers. Right now, the city has 815 sworn officers. It's only required to have 780. The city also has 37 extra positions to keep up with attrition. And under this year's budget proposal, the city would get 20 more officers from the academy. "We're not taking away anything," Baker says. "In fact, we're adding to it. We added to it from last year and we're adding to it this year."
But, the Fraternal Order of Police disagrees. President Darin Filak tells us last year, the city had two academy classes, putting forty more officers on the streets. He says if the mayor only allows one, that means a weaker police presence in neighborhoods. Attrition is two officers a month," Filak says. "So, in effect, we'll have four less officers on our streets than we do now because of them canceling the second academy class."
The FOP is considering going to the council themselves. Officers will meet Wednesday night. The council must approve the budget by June 23rd.
The police department got bigger pay raises than the fire department and public works employees. The Parks department got layoffs.
I hate that the golf courses where I play golf are closing, but I understand why. Someone explain to the police FOP that people are tired of their whining.
The Police should be patrolling Page Belcher. That course is murder.
RM:
What is it with you and the police department? I don't really care one way or the other, but you seem to be consistently very critical of them. What gives? Have you been personally affected by them...did they touch you in a bad place?
It is pretty obvious, huh? It does go way back.
I remember the way they treated Susan Savage when she was Mayor. The union just spread lies about her. The way they treated Bill LaFortune was equally bad. They endorsed anybody but him.
Now they go to the media and complain about Kathy Taylor.
That is why I titled the thread this way. It doesn't seem to matter who the mayor is or what they do for the FOP, they still whine.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
It is pretty obvious, huh? It does go way back.
I remember the way the treated Susan Savage when she was Mayor.
The FOP pretty much dealt her out of the game when they prevented her from removing some bad cops in 2002:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=000628_Ne_a9rulin
How many other city departments can do that?
paging NSUGRAD...
For all the machismo that police try to project, its union paradoxically seems to do an awful lot of whining.
I like cops.
I generally distrust the FOP.
The do have a point that they should lose 2.2 cops per month (about 26) but only hire 20 when the complaint has been "not enough officers."
The minimum requirement is too low.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
It is pretty obvious, huh? It does go way back.
I remember the way they treated Susan Savage when she was Mayor. The union just spread lies about her. The way they treated Bill LaFortune was equally bad. They endorsed anybody but him.
Now they go to the media and complain about Kathy Taylor.
That is why I titled the thread this way. It doesn't seem to matter who the mayor is or what they do for the FOP, they still whine.
I have the same distrust of unions you do...I gather you don't have a problem with the police, just their union leadership, which is fair...
The FOP certainly has a case that their underpaid. Maybe understaffed. But as long as there is little federal and state funding for intercity PDs, they'll ALWAYS have that case.
The city's tax base isn't growing at the rate of the financial responsibilites of the city. And barring temporary miracle fixes or a major initiative from the Fed or State, TPD will always be underfunded.
Here's a thought though. If the FOP is really interested in hiking wages and building up staffing, how about approaching the Mayor with the idea of a private/public partnership to build an endowment exclusively to help fund our TPD. Think out of the box. Be proactive, instead of tearing everything down.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
I have the same distrust of unions you do...I gather you don't have a problem with the police, just their union leadership, which is fair...[/quote]
I know many officers...like 'em all.
My father was a Tulsa police officer during the 60's and 70's.
Yes, my beef is with the union tactics.
They could always try Corporate Sponsorship...
http://www.ifilm.com/video/2839440/show/17671
The last thing we need is more firemen.....
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
The police department got bigger pay raises than the fire department and public works employees. The Parks department got layoffs.
Public Works and all other non-union employees.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
RM:
What is it with you and the police department? I don't really care one way or the other, but you seem to be consistently very critical of them. What gives? Have you been personally affected by them...did they touch you in a bad place?
AMEN!!
Michael is mad because the FOP (a union) negotiates on behalf of its members. The members, in this case police officers, pay for everything the FOP does, including everything related to negotiations and employment. Yet, he won't recognize that state law prohibits the FOP from representing non-sworn police officers. He won't recognize other city employees don't have the courage to form their own union and negotiate pay raises for themselves. Then gets mad when the FOP negotiates pay raises for its members and expects other city employees, who pay no dues to the FOP for its costs related to negotiations, don't get the same raises. Then, won't recognize that all city employees got 8-10% pay raises this year, all because the FOP was able to negotiate pay raises for police officers, which the city then extended to all other employees. Did any other city employee pay one red cent towards the cost of negotiations or arbitration this year? It cost the FOP in the area of $20K or more.
Our new Mayor, who touts herself as the public safety mayor, has not done one thing since she has been in office to promote public safety.
In one Tulsa World article she says the next chief must do something about community based policing and getting officers to patrol in neighborhoods. There is obviously a disconnect as to what community based policing is. Community based policing says patrol officers must have at least 70% of their work time free to do community based things. Yet with Tulsa manpower the way it is, police rarely have 20% free, even on a good day. If you don't have enough personnel in order to generate the free time to do community based policing, how do you then say officers must do community based policing? When? During the five minutes of free time I had two weeks ago?
Then in another article, she (or her office) talks about how they are adding to the ranks of police by holding one police academy this year of 20 officers. That is not adding to the ranks when the police always do two classes each year of at least 20. If you start with 20, you will never finish with 20. And during that one year it takes to get those officers out on their own, you have lost 25-30. That is going backwards, not forwards.
Once again, this city has a budget presented by the mayor that is the largest in the city's history, increased by $20M more then last year, a 3.7% increase. With inflation currently running about 2.5%, it all comes down to priorities.
The FOP is concerned about fighting crime. They want to see crime go lower then it is. Tulsa is at the bottom of the list for just about everything related to police except for education, which is at the top. Police staffing in Tulsa is horribly low when you look at police per population compared to other large cities. But, as I have said numerous times before, until citizens complain about crime, your city government will choose to spend money elsewhere.
If you are satisfied with the mayor's budget proposal, including the amount of money that goes towards public safety, by all means, call your city counselor and urge them to vote in favor. If you are not satisfied with where money is being spent, then by all means, call and complain. If you don't do either, don't b*tch!
Wilbur...
How can you get so many facts wrong?
First, there are other unions besides the FOP...Have you ever heard of AFSCME? They do a good job of bargaining without trying to attack the Mayor.
Secondly, the majority of city employees (including public works and fire) got 7% and the police got 8%. The Parks department got a bunch of pink slips.
I have never heard the mayor say she was the Public Safety Mayor..show me where.
Then for you to say "she has not done one thing since she has been in office to promote public safety..." is wrong. Why do you think that you get all the credit for a lower crime rate under her watch and none of the blame?
We all want lower crime...not just the police department. Quit acting as if you are the only ones who care.
I think the Mayor has made public safety a big priority in her proposed budget. But you don't see it that way. You just want to whine that you don't get more money and more bodies. Believe me, every department head in the city would love to get the priority that the police got in this budget.
I expected you to just do the same as you always do...run to the media and act as if the mayor doesn't care...frankly, that whine is getting a little stale.
We just need to agree to disagree. I don't have the stamina to go through all this again and again.
I'll admit my bias towards the police and you can admit your bias towards the mayor.
When the mayor puts the money where her mouth is towards all employees, we can all be happy.
We'll fight some more at the next lunch!
I'll buy, Wilbur.
I think this is the only issue that we really disagree.
You should come to the next lunch. They have been very fun and imformative.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
I'll buy, Wilbur.
I think this is the only issue that we really disagree.
You should come to the next lunch. They have been very fun and imformative.
Wanted to make the last one but was in OKC all day.
The police got a very steep raise in the past year. It has lowered the attrition rate and got the officers closer to where they should be. 98% of the population believes themselves to be underpaid. The FOP seems to be trying to squeeze water out of a rock. They got a raise at the cost of other people's jobs and they seem to care little to none about where the money comes from. They also seem more concerned about raises than increasing staffing, which is more for the good of the city than an extra couple of thousand in an officer's pockets.
Plus "the officers pay the FOP" line doesn't work on me. The citizens fund a bank account, that account pays you to pay the FOP. For the city workers who don't unionize, good for them. Firing a union is an automatic pay raise.
Unions had their time, the whole idea is that by organizing is the only way to protect you from an evil employer out to treat you unfairly. It assumes the Mayor is "the bad guy" no matter who the mayor is or what they do. That time is over. Unions at this point are putting more drain on the company and it's employees than benefit.
For example, at every job you get penalized for coming in late. However, the cingular call center (the only unionized call center in tulsa to my knowledge) the union said that if being late is punishable, then they won't allow anyone to be early either. The result is that you will be penalized for signing in 1 minute before OR after your scheduled time. If a call runs into your lunch hour, say by 15 minutes, then you've just lost 15 minutes of lunch. You don't get to come back 15 minutes later. Plus, you get in trouble for taking a short lunch.
Unions have gotten ridiculous.
quote:
The police got a very steep raise in the past year. It has lowered the attrition rate and got the officers closer to where they should be. 98% of the population believes themselves to be underpaid. The FOP seems to be trying to squeeze water out of a rock. They got a raise at the cost of other people's jobs and they seem to care little to none about where the money comes from. They also seem more concerned about raises than increasing staffing, which is more for the good of the city than an extra couple of thousand in an officer's pockets.
ALL city employees got pay raises in the same area of 8% this year, not just police. Attrition has dropped, but mostly because of a decrease in retirements, not officers leaving for higher paying jobs (we're getting ready to lose a couple soon to the feds). And to say police got 'closer to where they should be' is only slightly true. We went from last place in the pay survey to last place in the pay survey. While Tulsa officers got 10% over two years (that's an average of 5% a year), the other cities also got pay raises, so our movement didn't really result in anything. The only time Tulsa will move up the list is when we get raises and other cities don't (that rarely happens) or when the city makes a commitment to steady pay increases over a several years. If you want your police force to be paid at the bottom of the pay scale yet require college education at the top of the scale, call your city counselor. I pray we never turn into a Miami of the 70's, a Houston of the 80's, or a New Orleans of the 90's. And there is nothing wrong with a union fighting to get both pay raises AND increased staffing, both of which are drastically needed at Tulsa PD.
quote:
Plus "the officers pay the FOP" line doesn't work on me. The citizens fund a bank account, that account pays you to pay the FOP.
Bologna! Then the taxes I ultimately pay myself is really a pay decrease. Without officers funding a union, there would be no union. There is no account within the city's budget directed towards union dues. And there is nothing that requires an officer to join the union, although he/she still benefits from the action of the union.
quote:
Unions had their time, the whole idea is that by organizing is the only way to protect you from an evil employer out to treat you unfairly. It assumes the Mayor is "the bad guy" no matter who the mayor is or what they do.
Bologna again! You should sit at the negotiations table since Mayor Savage. The City always comes to the table talking about pay cuts in the double digits, taking away benefits, .... Each side ends up spending a ridiculous amount of money to ultimately decide on very little. There were times in the past when negotiations were fairly short and we always had a contract in place by the time July 1 came around. That hasn't happened in a long time.
quote:
ALL city employees got pay raises in the same area of 8% this year, not just police. Attrition has dropped, but mostly because of a decrease in retirements, not officers leaving for higher paying jobs (we're getting ready to lose a couple soon to the feds). And to say police got 'closer to where they should be' is only slightly true. We went from last place in the pay survey to last place in the pay survey. While Tulsa officers got 10% over two years (that's an average of 5% a year), the other cities also got pay raises, so our movement didn't really result in anything. The only time Tulsa will move up the list is when we get raises and other cities don't (that rarely happens) or when the city makes a commitment to steady pay increases over a several years. If you want your police force to be paid at the bottom of the pay scale yet require college education at the top of the scale, call your city counselor. I pray we never turn into a Miami of the 70's, a Houston of the 80's, or a New Orleans of the 90's. And there is nothing wrong with a union fighting to get both pay raises AND increased staffing, both of which are drastically needed at Tulsa PD.
You know...that sounds an awful lot like extortion to me.
Guess what? We average workers at the city and city funded agencies are ALL underpaid. Guess what? I still do my job to the best of my ability. Would I like more? Yes? Do other communities pay urban planners with master's degrees more than they do here? Absolutely. Do I tell the city, "well I am afraid of what might happen to our transportation systems if I don't get paid more"? No, I don't.
It's one thing to ask for a raise. It's another to make veiled threats when you don't get exactly what you want.
quote:
Originally posted by pfox
quote:
ALL city employees got pay raises in the same area of 8% this year, not just police. Attrition has dropped, but mostly because of a decrease in retirements, not officers leaving for higher paying jobs (we're getting ready to lose a couple soon to the feds). And to say police got 'closer to where they should be' is only slightly true. We went from last place in the pay survey to last place in the pay survey. While Tulsa officers got 10% over two years (that's an average of 5% a year), the other cities also got pay raises, so our movement didn't really result in anything. The only time Tulsa will move up the list is when we get raises and other cities don't (that rarely happens) or when the city makes a commitment to steady pay increases over a several years. If you want your police force to be paid at the bottom of the pay scale yet require college education at the top of the scale, call your city counselor. I pray we never turn into a Miami of the 70's, a Houston of the 80's, or a New Orleans of the 90's. And there is nothing wrong with a union fighting to get both pay raises AND increased staffing, both of which are drastically needed at Tulsa PD.
You know...that sounds an awful lot like extortion to me.
Guess what? We average workers at the city and city funded agencies are ALL underpaid. Guess what? I still do my job to the best of my ability. Would I like more? Yes? Do other communities pay urban planners with master's degrees more than they do here? Absolutely. Do I tell the city, "well I am afraid of what might happen to our transportation systems if I don't get paid more"? No, I don't.
It's one thing to ask for a raise. It's another to make veiled threats when you don't get exactly what you want.
Well, easy your mind. It's not extortion.
Wilber is just stating that the correlation between low pay, low educational requirements and corruption has been well documented. The cities of Miami, Houston, and New Orleans all chose to pay their police officers a low wage. As a result, the applicant pool was poor, officer retention was low and corruption rose dramatically.
Hopefully this won't happen in Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by pfox
quote:
ALL city employees got pay raises in the same area of 8% this year, not just police. Attrition has dropped, but mostly because of a decrease in retirements, not officers leaving for higher paying jobs (we're getting ready to lose a couple soon to the feds). And to say police got 'closer to where they should be' is only slightly true. We went from last place in the pay survey to last place in the pay survey. While Tulsa officers got 10% over two years (that's an average of 5% a year), the other cities also got pay raises, so our movement didn't really result in anything. The only time Tulsa will move up the list is when we get raises and other cities don't (that rarely happens) or when the city makes a commitment to steady pay increases over a several years. If you want your police force to be paid at the bottom of the pay scale yet require college education at the top of the scale, call your city counselor. I pray we never turn into a Miami of the 70's, a Houston of the 80's, or a New Orleans of the 90's. And there is nothing wrong with a union fighting to get both pay raises AND increased staffing, both of which are drastically needed at Tulsa PD.
You know...that sounds an awful lot like extortion to me.
Guess what? We average workers at the city and city funded agencies are ALL underpaid. Guess what? I still do my job to the best of my ability. Would I like more? Yes? Do other communities pay urban planners with master's degrees more than they do here? Absolutely. Do I tell the city, "well I am afraid of what might happen to our transportation systems if I don't get paid more"? No, I don't.
It's one thing to ask for a raise. It's another to make veiled threats when you don't get exactly what you want.
We can all hope you aren't in the law enforcement business if you somehow construe that as extortion. I said I pray that doesn't happen here. This is extortion to you?
If you would check several of my prior posts, I have always agreed ALL city employees deserve to be paid at least average, not just police. And I work my butt off too.
The City has already lowered the standards used for psychological testing results for police applicants because not enough qualified applicants were applying. What standards do we lower next?
My point being, Miami, Houston and New Orleans started lowering standards and their pay went into the toilet. As a result, corruption became rampant. I pray that doesn't happen here.
Are we still on topic?
I agree that police officer pay has a way of attracting better candidates and retaining them.
Tulsa pays a fair wage in my opinion. For comparison purposes...
New Orleans policeman pay upon graduation from the academy $38,608
Miami policeman pay upon graduation from the academy $35,874
Houston policeman pay upon graduation from the academy $36,022.74
Tulsa policeman pay upon graduation from the academy $42,470.16
The FOP whining about how the TPD got the shaft from the Mayor is like Al Sharpton crying racism. Happens so frequently nobody pays attention to their schtick anymore. Even if there's actual truth or value to their message, they've howled in righteous indignation so loudly for so long, they've worn people out... to the point of being tuned out.
Tulsa police officers are a dedicated group of men and women who serve this city well. The FOP is a big fat crybaby in need of a diaper change.
QuoteOriginally posted by AVERAGE JOE
The FOP whining about how the TPD got the shaft from the Mayor is like Al Sharpton crying racism. Happens so frequently nobody pays attention to their schtick anymore. Even if there's actual truth or value to their message, they've howled in righteous indignation so loudly for so long, they've worn people out... to the point of being tuned out.
Tulsa police officers are a dedicated group of men and women who serve this city well. The FOP is a big fat crybaby in need of a diaper change.
[/quote
The FOP is made up of Tulsa Police officers. Has your opinion of Tulsa Police officers changed now?
And RM, thanks for the news on the starting salaries in Houston, Miami and New Orleans offered now. However, we were talking about the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's. Still their present salary and the current high profile problems in New Orleans prove the point that you get what you pay for.
There is a reason why our homicide solving rate is so high. There is a reason why we can have smaller numbers of officers covering larger areas. There is a reason why we make a detective division work with less officers than other cities our size. The reason the Tulsa Police department does more with less is because of the quality of the officers we have.
The FOP is concerned because we understand this and are worried that if pay/compensation doesn't change we will be unable to attracted the large number of quality officers that we are used to having. The police department has already began to lower standards and we are concerned that this will begin to reflect in our professionalism and quality of work.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
I agree that police officer pay has a way of attracting better candidates and retaining them.
Tulsa pays a fair wage in my opinion. For comparison purposes...
New Orleans policeman pay upon graduation from the academy $38,608
Miami policeman pay upon graduation from the academy $35,874
Houston policeman pay upon graduation from the academy $36,022.74
Tulsa policeman pay upon graduation from the academy $42,470.16
Tulsa tries to promote their starting salary pay as an incentive to entice new recruits. The problem is, you are only a starting officer for one year. We fall horribly behind in the years following, although, New Orleans has had pay problems for years, so they will always be behind Tulsa (for now, anyway). But, New Orleans isn't in our salary survey, either.
Are we still on topic?
We can get qualified, moral, highly-intelligent people without breaking the bank. Sherriff's deputies are as qualified as TPD without needing their bums kissed, and soldiers carry a lot more firepower and do not need a BA.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
We can get qualified, moral, highly-intelligent people without breaking the bank. Sherriff's deputies are as qualified as TPD without needing their bums kissed, and soldiers carry a lot more firepower and do not need a BA.
Let me see. Tulsa County requires a GED to be employed. Tulsa PD requires a bachelors degree to be employed. Yah. That's 'just as qualified.'
And if you think deputies are satisfied with their pay, go ask one. Deputies are not allowed to bargain (state law), so their salary is determined for them. No discussion allowed.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
quote:
Originally posted by pfox
quote:
ALL city employees got pay raises in the same area of 8% this year, not just police. Attrition has dropped, but mostly because of a decrease in retirements, not officers leaving for higher paying jobs (we're getting ready to lose a couple soon to the feds). And to say police got 'closer to where they should be' is only slightly true. We went from last place in the pay survey to last place in the pay survey. While Tulsa officers got 10% over two years (that's an average of 5% a year), the other cities also got pay raises, so our movement didn't really result in anything. The only time Tulsa will move up the list is when we get raises and other cities don't (that rarely happens) or when the city makes a commitment to steady pay increases over a several years. If you want your police force to be paid at the bottom of the pay scale yet require college education at the top of the scale, call your city counselor. I pray we never turn into a Miami of the 70's, a Houston of the 80's, or a New Orleans of the 90's. And there is nothing wrong with a union fighting to get both pay raises AND increased staffing, both of which are drastically needed at Tulsa PD.
You know...that sounds an awful lot like extortion to me.
Guess what? We average workers at the city and city funded agencies are ALL underpaid. Guess what? I still do my job to the best of my ability. Would I like more? Yes? Do other communities pay urban planners with master's degrees more than they do here? Absolutely. Do I tell the city, "well I am afraid of what might happen to our transportation systems if I don't get paid more"? No, I don't.
It's one thing to ask for a raise. It's another to make veiled threats when you don't get exactly what you want.
We can all hope you aren't in the law enforcement business if you somehow construe that as extortion. I said I pray that doesn't happen here. This is extortion to you?
If you would check several of my prior posts, I have always agreed ALL city employees deserve to be paid at least average, not just police. And I work my butt off too.
The City has already lowered the standards used for psychological testing results for police applicants because not enough qualified applicants were applying. What standards do we lower next?
My point being, Miami, Houston and New Orleans started lowering standards and their pay went into the toilet. As a result, corruption became rampant. I pray that doesn't happen here.
Are we still on topic?
All things being equal, I'd love to see Tulsa's police force be paid as much as possible. Aside from schoolteachers, there may not be a more undervalued job. That being said, I don't like hearing from, I am assuming, one of our officers, "I pray we don't turn into Miami, Houston, or New Orleans."
There are a lot of us working really really hard to make Tulsa the great city it can be, and crime, violent crime in particular, is one of the obstacles. We need a smart, efficient police force. We value the work you do, because you have to deal with the symptoms of a greater problem. So thank you for that. But if it's just about the money, well... join the club.
quote:
There are a lot of us working really really hard to make Tulsa the great city it can be, and crime, violent crime in particular, is one of the obstacles. We need a smart, efficient police force. We value the work you do, because you have to deal with the symptoms of a greater problem. So thank you for that. But if it's just about the money, well... join the club.
It's not just about the money. I love the job and would do it for less (but please don't tell anybody).
Having your employer send you a message that says you are valued once in a while is always nice. One way employers do that is through salaries. All the FOP has ever asked for was to be paid average, nothing more. If we were at the top of the pay scale and the FOP was constantly complaining about pay, I might understand some of the FOP bashers here.
I would love to see all city employees brought to average. Having heard the city say it is their goal to do so for more then 20 years, makes you wonder if the message is B.S. There obviously has not been any movement to achieve the goal.
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
QuoteOriginally posted by AVERAGE JOE
The FOP whining about how the TPD got the shaft from the Mayor is like Al Sharpton crying racism. Happens so frequently nobody pays attention to their schtick anymore. Even if there's actual truth or value to their message, they've howled in righteous indignation so loudly for so long, they've worn people out... to the point of being tuned out.
Tulsa police officers are a dedicated group of men and women who serve this city well. The FOP is a big fat crybaby in need of a diaper change.
[/quote}
The FOP is made up of Tulsa Police officers. Has your opinion of Tulsa Police officers changed now?
Congratulations, you just passed JOE101: Introduction to Irony.
The FOP is a union, right?
Unions have destroyed American industry,by filling it with over-paid employees with no desire to work. Steel,Auto,Airline,Textile,etc. But,in government(teachers,law enforcement,etc.) they managed to do it without good pay.
Civil Service Commission Backs Mayor
(Tulsa, Ok) -- A win for Tulsa Mayor Kathy Taylor. The Civil Service Commission rules the mayor doesn't have to hire Tulsa's new police chief from within the department. An attorney representing three rejected candidates indicates he will seek an injunction in an effort to block the mayor from moving ahead.