Am I the only one who is disgusted every time I see Andrew Jackson's hateful visage staring up at me from the $20 bill?
I hope not. Congress should direct the Treasury to replace Jackson with Crazy Horse, Geronomo, or Sequoyah.
How bout Urkel?
(http://pennywise.blogia.com/upload/urkel.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Am I the only one who is disgusted every time I see Andrew Jackson's hateful visage staring up at me from the $20 bill?
I hope not. Congress should direct the Treasury to replace Jackson with Crazy Horse, Geronomo, or Sequoyah.
I'm not sure the general public would even know why you are outraged. I wasn't until an Osage friend of mine clued me in.
Listen, I remember people being outraged everytime they heard the term "Cape Kennedy" until they finally got it changed. I personally don't care for the use of Reagan's name on anything! But you have to pick your battles. These naming battles seem foolhardy. He was a leader of his times. If I were you, I would want every opportunity to show american's what kind of country we were and don't want to be again.
Seeing his pic on every $20 gives you that opportunity.
how about don knotts??Hes my hero!
If you're that pissed, ask for tens.
Or give that twenty to me. [}:)]
I'm a card carrying Cherokee, and I'll spend what you've got.
I never liked any of them Jackson fellas...
Michael, Tito, Jermaine, Reggie, Jessie...all of them creeped me out.
I did read that Andrew Jackson used to get in fights all the time, especially about his wife's honor. He fought in 103 duals.
I think we should again allow duals among the Washington politicians. Vice-President Cheney even has some experience shooting people.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Am I the only one who is disgusted every time I see Andrew Jackson's hateful visage staring up at me from the $20 bill?
I hope not. Congress should direct the Treasury to replace Jackson with Crazy Horse, Geronomo, or Sequoyah.
You need to relax. Jeez. What a thing to get your panties in a wad about.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
I never liked any of them Jackson fellas...
Michael, Tito, Jermaine, Reggie, Jessie...all of them creeped me out.
I did read that Andrew Jackson used to get in fights all the time, especially about his wife's honor. He fought in 103 duals.
I think we should again allow duals among the Washington politicians. Vice-President Cheney even has some experience shooting people.
Gonna be kind of difficult for the left, as they'd have to wait 7 days to shoot back!
Smiley faces for all our currency, everyone else is too offensive! Not to belittle the atrocity that was Jackson and the Government's policy towards Indians but...
Jefferson - out because he owned slaves, offensive to blacks
Hamilton - responsible for the start of a growing federal government when he put it in charge of banking and assumed states debt. Not to mention he isnt even a native born American, like we would want some foreigner on our currency.
Jackson - ye' ole' Indian fighter and the whole steeling the Cherokees land
Abe - Allowed Sherman to destroy the South, Southerners would be pissed
Franklin - an atheist, a whore, and a want-to-be Frenchie; so he's out because the god fearing Christian right shouldn't be able to stand him
Sacajawea - left her husband and stole his child to wonder around with a group of white men. Not to mention her aid to Lewis and Clark propagated the idea of manifest destony and resulted in ALL tribes in America losing their land. Hell of a roll model there.
Washington - bought and sold Indian land as a speculator to build his personal fortune by the end of his life. Fueling expansionism, the taking of Indian land, and worsening relations with natives.
Grant - made his name slaughtering his fellow countrymen. At least a few states South of Kentucky shouldn't want to spend HIS money.
Better get rid of Columbus day while we are at it and the Fourth of July (upsets British residents). Not too mention arbor day for upsetting loggers, Christmas for upsetting Muslims, New Years Day for upsetting the Chinese (or any other lunar calender), and a whole host of other things that are never going to happen.
The cold hard truth is, like Grant and Lincoln, Jackson's portrait is on our currency because he won. The South couldnt do anything about adding them to our coinage because they lost the war. Likewise, as much as it might have been horribly wrong, the Cherokee's lost the war also. The only native celebrated on our coinage is one who helped hand over the rest of the Native world to the Europeans. So the cookie crumbles...
In any event, most men dont get to be great by being of outstanding character in the eyes of everyone. The ones that go through life without pissing anyone one off are the ones that are quickly forgotten. As wrong as it may be, generally speaking, the ones that take the most popular radical positions tend to be seen as great (name the president before Lincoln, the one that walked the tight rope and avoided war. Or the Roman Consolute before Caeser who didnt conquer foreign lands. Or the prophet in the bible who preached in the privacy of his home - as suggested in the book itself).
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
You need to relax. Jeez. What a thing to get your panties in a wad about.
Genocide has that effect on me. I am a softie.
Racist stereotypes are unacceptable, and racist xenophobes from any time period should not represent our nation at all.
I'm a Cherokee and I say he stays on the bill. Unless you're a tribe member my vote means more than your's. Discussion over.
Jackson - 1
Uptight Guy with too much time on his hands - 0
BTW, I'm still waiting for you to give me back my land that you stole from me...either put up or shut up. I want reparations.
I accept Cash, Check, Visa, MasterCard and Diner's Club...
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
I'm a Cherokee and I say he stays on the bill. Unless you're a tribe member my vote means more than your's. Discussion over.
Jackson - 1
Uptight Guy with too much time on his hands - 0
BTW, I'm still waiting for you to give me back my land that you stole from me...either put up or shut up. I want reparations.
I accept Cash, Check, Visa, MasterCard and Diner's Club...
Better not put any Osage leaders on the bills. My friend told me his ancestors used to get drunk and go on raiding parties to the Cherokee lands, take their women, burn, kill. All the regular stuff. Somehow, both tribes get along now.
Personal attack removed
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Personal attack removed
What's the deal Timmy? Can't take a joke?
What makes you think I did not mean that as a joke?
No matter whether you meant it as a joke or not, it was still inappropriate.
FYI Timmy, the entire state of Oklahoma is former tribal land, but you should know that, right...
Lastly, the moderators don't take to personal attacks like "*******" very well.
The Indian nations love his picture on the 20's. It is surprising how they enjoy collecting them to pay off the debt that they believe Jackson owes them. We just need to keep up the contributions to their cause and soon his picture along with the paper it is printed on will disappear. Have faith in the system.
"Franklin - an atheist, a whore, and a want-to-be Frenchie; so he's out because the god fearing Christian right shouldn't be able to stand him"
Hey! no picking on my relations.
My ancestors told me that what is now called a state was given to them as a territory but they sided with the South American Nation and were defeated by the North American Nation in a war that destroyed their culture . Like the North and South Korea's, they fought over their right to withdraw from the North. In '89 the North opened the territory for land grabbers because they were the victors and in 1907 the land grabbers made the territory into a state. But the war for our rights goes into the courts now.
There are a lot of wrongdoers in our history, no doubt. I just cannot find another genocidal maniac on our currency who committed crimes against humanity quite like Jackson.
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
My ancestors told me that what is now called a state was given to them as a territory but they sided with the South American Nation and were defeated by the North American Nation in a war that destroyed their culture . Like the North and South Korea's, they fought over their right to withdraw from the North. In '89 the North opened the territory for land grabbers because they were the victors and in 1907 the land grabbers made the territory into a state. But the war for our rights goes into the courts now.
Surely, you don't believe that the "South American Nation" wouldn't have done the same thing had they succeeded. The tribes were defeated on the battlefield, in the congress and in the courts. It was no different that the conquest of races all over the world since its inception either for greed or religion. I am not impressed with your threats of revenge on the white man. At your age they are unseemly. Harbor a grudge and vow revenge if you must and we can be just like North Korea and the Middle East.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Am I the only one who is disgusted every time I see Andrew Jackson's hateful visage staring up at me from the $20 bill?
I hope not. Congress should direct the Treasury to replace Jackson with Crazy Horse, Geronomo, or Sequoyah.
How about Heidi Fleiss....
The Congress could probably understand the meaning in that.[}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
There are a lot of wrongdoers in our history, no doubt. I just cannot find another genocidal maniac on our currency who committed crimes against humanity quite like Jackson.
I've heard France is beautiful...especially this time of year. I'll buy a first class one way ticket...anyone else want to pitch in?
Having Andrew Jackson on the $20 is the equivalent of having Dracula on the most commonly passed Transylvanian (sic) currency.
Jackson was a bloodthirsty, hateful dictator who should be excoriated by history, not rewarded.
Really, I'm running out of ways to say quit flaming each other, so I'll just post this.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/jfencl/23368497.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
There are a lot of wrongdoers in our history, no doubt. I just cannot find another genocidal maniac on our currency who committed crimes against humanity quite like Jackson.
I've heard France is beautiful...especially this time of year. I'll buy a first class one way ticket...anyone else want to pitch in?
France is too good (and expensive) I bet we could chip in for a one way to DFW though.
EXPENSIVE!!! So says the man that uses the Pound Sterling! I bet I couldn't even buy a can of Coke in the UK right now.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
EXPENSIVE!!! So says the man that uses the Pound Sterling! I bet I couldn't even buy a can of Coke in the UK right now.
Don't blame me for the weak dollar.
I'm sure the outrageous cost of living in the UK means that you have more money at the end of the month in your pocket in dollars or in pounds.
I know it is fun to dis Tim on this topic, and he sure does deserve (and probably likes) it.
But it is an interesting conversation. If our leaders did things that we are now ashamed of, why do we honor them by including them on currency?
I also agree that, of all the Presidents, this guy did the most bad things. Opponents of Jackson called him Jackass.
He did fight the British two times, but surrounded it with ordering and participating in the killing and removal of Indians from their lands. He also had a big fight with his Vice-President, John C. Calhoun, and imposed tariffs on goods from Calhoun's home state of South Carolina. The state tried to seceed and Calhoun quit his job. Another reason to dislike him...he was a lawyer.
On the positive side, The Federal government was debt-free for the first and last time during his Presidency. My favorite positive about him was the story that his parrot was removed for swearing during his funeral.
But the things that he was admired for in the 19th century are often seen as wrong by our 21st century standards. He did try to commit genocide on Native Americans.
Maybe we should take him off our money.
With whom shall we replace him? Per my list above someone could be offended by nearly everyone else.
As for putting a Native on our currency; not only would that offend many peoples in other tribes it would also be putting people that were decidedly NOT Citizens of the United States, and in fact fought their entire lives to avoid being under the control of the United States, on our currency. That doesnt make much sense. Robert E. Lee was a great warrior, a great leader, and as it turns out a great reconstructionist - shall we put him on our currency? As noble as their battle may have been, fighting a country is rarely a path to coinage. Just as many are offended by Jackson on currency for being an Indian fighter, so to would the ancestors of those killed "fighting for their country" in those "Indian Wars" be offended by Geranimo [side note, Woolarock has a Geranimo signature on display with the explanation "Geranimo wrote this in 18XX, he wrote it from left to right and seemed to take much pride in it." Worth seeing along with everything else there].
And if we are in to giving land back... lets return Alaska to Russia (Russia has long refused to acknowledge the sale, it being a personal act by the Czar of selling off land that belonged to the Russian people), the Southwest, including California, to the Mexicans - which we took in a war just as surely as all native tribal lands, the entire Mississippi river basin to France (which was sold by their usurping dictator to fund his expansionist war without approval of the people of France). We had also better return Puerto Rico to the Spanish, succeed Hawaii to the natives and let the tribes on the mainland fight each other for the lands - as they did more millennia before the Europeans came.
Meanwhile, those of us without ENOUGH native blood to get a vote will pack up our **** and move back to Germany, Ireland, or Eastern Europe where we came from. When I get back to Europe I plan on exacting my revenge on the protestants that took my ancestors lands in Prussia. However, the Austrian nobles that my ancestors displaced will probably want the land back from me. Which wont last long, because they took it from the Normans anyway. Of course, the Normans would have to give it back to the Gauls. Who took over from the Visigoths when they moved South. Who were really just trying to take it back from the Romans, who took it from the Goths, who held it after removing the remnants of the huns. The huns of course held the land because the slaughtered whoever the hell held the lands before they got there. Hell, even god seems to be on board with this plan - do you think the land promised to 'his people' was empty when they marched in and took it? Why do you think they marched on Jericho... to kill them and take their land.
Or... we could all get over it and just try to live as American's without a preface and do the best we can. Regaurdless of what someone's great grandfather may have done to your great grandfather.
How about something besides a President?
An American Eagle...a picture of the Capital building...Elvis?
How about we sell the picture rights...kinda like product placement in every wallet?
A Nike swoosh...maybe a picture of Bill Gates...
I want Johnny Cash on one of my dollar bills. [:)]
poke man figures!
How about MLK? Seriously?
I'm going with Jesus on the 100's, Allah on the 50's, the Pope on the 20's, Budda on the 10's and Geronimo on the one's.
This should stimulate people to save the large bills as they will revere their images. Meanwhile the lower denominations will encourage spending as Geronimo will end up in casinos and no one wants a Budda in their pocket. Of course Oprah will be on the larger $500 dollar bills as most of them are hers anyway.
quote:
Allah on the 50'
Well that should go over well. As I understand it, most Muslims int he world are highly tolerant of images of Mo being published. Not to mention having Jesus on a higher bill!
The only solution is to issue currency based on wealth. We got Bill Gates on the 100, Warren E. Buffett, Jim Walton on the 50, Michael Dell on the 20, Brin & Page and the Google logo on the $10, the Donald on the $5, and Oprah on the $1. I skipped many people that lack real identity and inserted Oprah for obvious reasons.
Per coinage. 50 cents - rapper 50 cent. 25 - a giant phallic Prince symbol on one side and a karbola (sp?) symbolizing Madonna on the other, 10 - a collectors coin of Congressmen, like baseball cards , 5 - whoever the sitting president is when its minted and for the penny...
the almighty penny should be a picture of the statue of liberty on one side and an image of the huddled masses on the other. Just to remind us of where we really stand in the pecking order.
On a more serious note I would be happy to have MLK, Sitting Bull, or even Robert E. Lee. All of which eventually decided they had to put down their arms and try to deal in a non-violent fashion.
After reconsidering my above post, it wouldnt particularly bother me to have a person who was defiant to United States on our coinage if the context has been vindicated (MLK & sitting bull obvious. Lee fought for his home despite a sense of loyalty to the United States, no references to atrocities, and a firm reconstructionist). Though I suspect many others would.
I think the ten dollar bill should have the Ten Commandments and the five dollar bill the five or so commandments that people really follow...you know that people bear false witness against their neighbor, dishonor their parents, worship their possessions or American Idols, forget the Sabbath Day and do a lot of coveting their neighbor's wife.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
How about MLK? Seriously?
He already has every inner city street in america named after him,how about Rocky Balboa??
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
Allah on the 50'
Well that should go over well. As I understand it, most Muslims int he world are highly tolerant of images of Mo being published. Not to mention having Jesus on a higher bill!
The only solution is to issue currency based on wealth. We got Bill Gates on the 100, Warren E. Buffett, Jim Walton on the 50, Michael Dell on the 20, Brin & Page and the Google logo on the $10, the Donald on the $5, and Oprah on the $1. I skipped many people that lack real identity and inserted Oprah for obvious reasons.
Per coinage. 50 cents - rapper 50 cent. 25 - a giant phallic Prince symbol on one side and a karbola (sp?) symbolizing Madonna on the other, 10 - a collectors coin of Congressmen, like baseball cards , 5 - whoever the sitting president is when its minted and for the penny...
the almighty penny should be a picture of the statue of liberty on one side and an image of the huddled masses on the other. Just to remind us of where we really stand in the pecking order.
I like those. Obviously you spent a little more time thinking about it than i did. [:D]
some people have far far far too much time to think!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Am I the only one who is disgusted every time I see Andrew Jackson's hateful visage staring up at me from the $20 bill?
I hope not. Congress should direct the Treasury to replace Jackson with Crazy Horse, Geronomo, or Sequoyah.
How about Heidi Fleiss....
The Congress could probably understand the meaning in that.
[}:)]
i think Heidi fleiss would have been better suited on the $100.
I cannot find a picture on the currency I use in this barter of exchange economy, The only thing I find on my currency is "VISA" up in the corner.
Jesus would work on the 100's but there was no available picture painted or made of him during his ministry. The Jew did not believe he was the fellow that was sent to eradicate them from the Roman Empire. So they would possibly pile them up and burn them and we would have the cost of reprinting them.
Recycles, were you dissing me? From this crowd, I reckoned those were serious suggestions! JK!
A Native on the bill was my first thought inasmuch as the crime agin humanity was against native peoples, but the murderous Jackson's replacement does not need to be a Native 'Mercan.
Remember, this is the most widely used American bill worldwide, sort of our ambassador of meaning. The worthy 'Mercan who replaces the villian is not as great an issue for me, something for a task force or Committee to decide.
What if they settled on Davie Crockett, but played by Billy Bob Thorton?
(http://images.usatoday.com/life/_photos/2003/03-07-billy-bob-inside.jpg)
Whatever the group comes up with.
Well Tim, look at it like this, what we see today as reprehensible actions in the early 1800's is also why you now have the freedom to roam the 48 contiguous states at will. I'm sure you do enjoy that freedom, don't you?
The mindset back then was to expand beyond the colonies, Native Americans were viewed as savages because we were taking their land, all they were trying to do was preserve their home lands.
Name any other empire which hasn't had it's heros for conquering foreign lands, slaying their people, and expanding their empire.
If you are so ashamed that the U.S. sits on conquered former Indian lands, perhaps you should go back to Europe and live on land that was conquered several times from it's native peoples.
'Love it or leave it' you mean? That is the argument of last resort! Do you think your real-life avatar would take that approach?
I am not about self-flagellation, spitting on Columbus, or racked with anglo guilt. Jackson simply represents the worst of our history, and should not be on our flagship bill.
FDR, Reagan, MLK, George W. Carver, the list goes on of great 'Mercans who are more deserving than Jackson.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
'Love it or leave it' you mean? That is the argument of last resort! Do you think your real-life avatar would take that approach?
I am not about self-flagellation, spitting on Columbus, or racked with anglo guilt. Jackson simply represents the worst of our history, and should not be on our flagship bill.
FDR, Reagan, MLK, George W. Carver, the list goes on of great 'Mercans who are more deserving than Jackson.
BTW who decided on Jackson and when? I like the idea of FDR, Carver or Sequoyah. Maybe we should change them out every 50yrs or so.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
Really, I'm running out of ways to say quit flaming each other, so I'll just post this.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/jfencl/23368497.jpg)
That has to be the funniest thing I've seen all day. Where did you get that beautiful picture from? Kudos!
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
'Love it or leave it' you mean? That is the argument of last resort! Do you think your real-life avatar would take that approach?
I am not about self-flagellation, spitting on Columbus, or racked with anglo guilt. Jackson simply represents the worst of our history, and should not be on our flagship bill.
FDR, Reagan, MLK, George W. Carver, the list goes on of great 'Mercans who are more deserving than Jackson.
Actually J.O. would never leave, he's making too good a living as a low-grade liberal hack.
Personally, I've always thought Jackson looks like the Joker and couldn't figure out why he was on the $20, probably another free mason conspiracy [xx(]. I like the idea of changing out faces on currency from time to time.
Love it or leave it is tired and trite.
It irks me when people spit on the very people who fought to give us the land and freedoms they enjoy as Americans. Okay, so history tells us Jackson was a cold-sadistic bastard, as were likely many more of the Indian fighters back then. I'd be willing to be we all have some cold sadistic bastards in our on family tree.
I'm sick and tired of others trying to make me feel that I've got to be some sort of apologist for being a free, white, anglo American.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
You need to relax. Jeez. What a thing to get your panties in a wad about.
Genocide has that effect on me. I am a softie.
Racist stereotypes are unacceptable, and racist xenophobes from any time period should not represent our nation at all.
Speaking as a tribal member and someone who has a B.A. in History and a M.A. in Native American Culture & Religion I have to say....
Get over it.
Think of the alternative... George W.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
Speaking as a tribal member and someone who has a B.A. in History and a M.A. in Native American Culture & Religion I have to say.... Get over it.
Your MA only means you had two years and twenty thousand dollars to waste, evidently. All you are showing is that - under cover of anonimity - you are a racist elite. At least some of the other replies advanced a point, made an argument pro or con or at least put up something witty. Your contribution has none of that. I would stay anonymous, too.
Opposition to removing Jackson boils down to: if you ain't Native your opinion does not matter; the public does not care anyway; if you do not like it move to another country; we could never figger out who else to put on the $20; lots of bad people are in our history so lets just leave it alone.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
Speaking as a tribal member and someone who has a B.A. in History and a M.A. in Native American Culture & Religion I have to say.... Get over it.
Your MA only means you had two years and twenty thousand dollars to waste, evidently. All you are showing is that - under cover of anonimity - you are a racist elite. At least some of the other replies advanced a point, made an argument pro or con or at least put up something witty. Your contribution has none of that. I would stay anonymous, too.
Opposition to removing Jackson boils down to: if you ain't Native your opinion does not matter; the public does not care anyway; if you do not like it move to another country; we could never figger out who else to put on the $20; lots of bad people are in our history so lets just leave it alone.
Have you no shame? Have you nothing better to do than flog a dead horse? You lost this argument by most accounts yet you don't know how to lose gracefully. Just like several other inflammatory threads you've been on. Just drive by, throw the firebomb and drive off.
Waterboy shoots...and scores!
quote:
Originally posted by waterboyHave you no shame? Have you nothing better to do than flog a dead horse? You lost this argument by most accounts yet you don't know how to lose gracefully. Just like several other inflammatory threads you've been on. Just drive by, throw the firebomb and drive off.
Your point has no merit and is not contributing to this thread. I defend my positions and care about others' points of view.
Opposition to my belief that Jackson is unworthy of being on the $20 comes down to: you a stupid-head, shut up or move to another country.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
quote:
Originally posted by waterboyHave you no shame? Have you nothing better to do than flog a dead horse? You lost this argument by most accounts yet you don't know how to lose gracefully. Just like several other inflammatory threads you've been on. Just drive by, throw the firebomb and drive off.
Your point has no merit and is not contributing to this thread. I defend my positions and care about others' points of view.
Opposition to my belief that Jackson is unworthy of being on the $20 comes down to: you a stupid-head, shut up or move to another country.
I learned in physics that if you go looking for a red barn with a red flashlight you'll never find it. You prove that its also true in discussion.
My vote for the best opposition to your belief is #1(a stupid-head). My last post on this thread thank you very much.
I thought people raised some valid points (myself included) that were never rebutted or even discussed. Why chose to insult someones education level and complain about the substance of his post yet ignore the posts of substance?
Seems that tact discourages substance since you are only conversing with the person you disparaging as lacking it.
CF, I certainly appreciate your participation and did not mean to slight you. Your main point was that lotsa honored historical figures could be maligned through revisionist lenses; the 'slippery slope' argument. My point is that Jackson's ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity and goes beyond the offenses that the others you listed committed.
Your second point was that you are afraid that you are going to be asked to move to Europe or something. Not real clear on your point.
I appreciate everyone's participation and remarks. This is part of discussion and debate - even the inherent racism inferred in the 'none of your kinds business' - were valuable to read.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
Speaking as a tribal member and someone who has a B.A. in History and a M.A. in Native American Culture & Religion I have to say.... Get over it.
Your MA only means you had two years and twenty thousand dollars to waste, evidently. All you are showing is that - under cover of anonimity - you are a racist elite. At least some of the other replies advanced a point, made an argument pro or con or at least put up something witty. Your contribution has none of that. I would stay anonymous, too.
For someone preaching about racial/cultural injustice, you sure sound pretty bigoted to me.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
For someone preaching about racial/cultural injustice, you sure sound pretty bigoted to me.
At least Jesse demonstrated some awareness of the issue and historical context, and offered suggestions for suitable replacements. This clown 'wavoka' puts up nothing of value and then wants to brag about his racial identity and educashun.
It should not take being a female to decry rape, being black to understand the sin of slavery, or a Native American to recognize genocide.
What a
Thanks for the response Tim.
I do think many of the great leaders in history were just as bad, if not worse, than Jackson. The Greeks, the Romans, the Israelites... all thought less of other civilizations (Barbarians!) and thought nothing of slaughtering them for gain. At least Jackson limited his disdain for one group of people (though *I* fully understand that different tribes are culturally, linguistically, and ethnically different), the groups listed above pretty well had disdain for everyone else. Someone list the groups the Israelites killed for their promised land...
Anyway, think Im beating a dead horse. Nice discussion.
- Jesse
Tim, I find incredible irony in you taking up for a cultural group and feigning horror at past injustices then summarily bashing one of the members of said group by impuning his tribal affiliation and education in the area of Native American studies.
You have just joined Aox on the ignore list. You guys should do lunch together sometime, you sound just alike. I just wish I could block out your annoying avatar.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Tim, I find incredible irony in you taking up for a cultural group and feigning horror at past injustices then summarily bashing one of the members of said group by impuning his tribal affiliation and education in the area of Native American studies.
Wrong all the way around. I disparaged 'Wavoka' for his arrogant attitude, not for his inability to use his education in a discussion or the color of his skin.
Operation [Ignore User] Commenced...
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
Operation [Ignore User] Commenced...
Thank goodness! That was fairly frustrating!
Jackson was a genocidal maniac who committed crimes against humanity. Being honored with the $20 should be reserved for a hero, not one of our nation's greatest villians.
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/zipwad/beating-a-dead-horse.gif)
That is an excellent graphic, Hoss! How clever and instructive! Thanks for advancing the discussion at such a timely interval!
Human nature is such that we tend to skim large amounts of reading material. As the originator of this thread, after much discussion, I have tried to summate the pros and cons of this discussion and simply have not been able to do so.
I do not require having the last word on any thread I participate in, but would rather not have the last post a meaningless personal slam or nonsense spammed response.
Just wanted to know what folk thought of the idea is all and wanted to see who was capable of intelligent dialogue. Now I know.
The office space graphic dead horse coupled with the El Rushbo psycho dancing avatar have an interesting nauseating/hypnotic effect on me. The horse graphic is getting saved to be sure.