::sigh::
Did you vote?
Of course.
District 1 is a Republican district. We as a whole are pro-life, against stem cells, for tax cuts, against illegal immigration, against gay marriage etc. John Sullivan represents District 1 well. He may not represent you well, but he represents the majority of the individuals in our district.
If you don't like the system, I'd campaign for electoral reform. (or move to Claremore for Dan Boren)
No real opposition
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
No real opposition
Ditto that. He was prime for being picked off.
For all the $$ spent on campaigning, there were a lot of crap candidates.
As Foxworthy might say; If you didn't even get 40% on election night... you Might be a crap candidate.
He is our rep because the majority of Tulsans did not vote, ergo he represents the majority in the most general sense.
The majority of Tulsans who voted rejected his GOP House clone Istook in the same numbers they re-elected 'Sully.'
90% of incumbents win re-election, and in a hand-carved GOP stronghold district like Tulsa the only threat will be in a primary.
His idea of leadership is to fire off press releases declaring victory for introducing bills. Charlie Biggs from the Beacon once told me that Inhofe called Sully 'his b****'!
quote:
Originally posted by Cubs
District 1 is a Republican district. We as a whole are pro-life, against stem cells....
We are
against stem cells!? Holy crap, when did that happen?
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah
quote:
Originally posted by Cubs
District 1 is a Republican district. We as a whole are pro-life, against stem cells....
We are against stem cells!? Holy crap, when did that happen?
That's how terrorists operate, in stem cells.
Sullivan is not nearly as bad as our senators. I would lay money on Brad Henry kicking Coburn's butt in four years, if he's still in the state.
Who takes on Inhoff in two years. He may be the worst senator in the nation. Dan Boren? Brad Carson?
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah
quote:
Originally posted by Cubs
District 1 is a Republican district. We as a whole are pro-life, against stem cells....
We are against stem cells!? Holy crap, when did that happen?
That's how terrorists operate, in stem cells.
Only the terrorists that smoke that wacky weed.
Damn hippies.
Gentges was a disappointment. I regret my contribution to his campaign.
But didn't Tulsa vote for Hiett too? I'm going to stop worrying about the hicks and keep an eye on the greedy city slickers.
You know Tulsa is such a good little Republican and look what they do for her. Nothing. I've seen the Republican gravy train before and it sure ain't stopping here.
Thank God for the rural Democrats of Oklahoma cause Tulsa isn't doing her part.
The state has always been run by the Democrats. The Oklahoma Senate has never had a Republican majority and the House has only been Republican for two years now. The state has had an overwhelming majority of Democrat governors across history. Same goes for Tulsa mayors. And we all know what the Republicans thought of our supposed Republican mayor LaFortune.
All I'm saying is don't even think about blaming the Republicans for Oklahoma's problems. The Republicans have never had much power in the state of Oklahoma.
quote:
Originally posted by Cubs
The state has always been run by the Democrats. The Oklahoma Senate has never had a Republican majority and the House has only been Republican for two years now. The state has had an overwhelming majority of Democrat governors across history. Same goes for Tulsa mayors. And we all know what the Republicans thought of our supposed Republican mayor LaFortune.
All I'm saying is don't even think about blaming the Republicans for Oklahoma's problems. The Republicans have never had much power in the state of Oklahoma.
Just for consideration. Nickolls, Istook, Inhofe, Keating, Bellmon, Sullivan, LaFortune (sr.),Hiett, et.al. Do these sound like Repubs who have never had much power in OK? And these are just off the top of my head. Besides, a conservative Democrat isn't much different than a moderate Republican. My gosh, man, we haven't voted for a Democratic president since LBJ! Cubs you need to think and research before spewing.
Tim Huntzinger wrote:
Charlie Biggs from the Beacon once told me that Inhofe called Sully 'his b****'!
<end clip>
So why are Republicans against pro-gay legislation?
[}:)]
Sullivan got re elected because he had no real opposition and he actually does try to make a difference, instead of istook who is a boob....the only thing more entertaining of his lowest vote count was reading the lamentations of Master bates about why the count was so low.
Sullivan is trying hard to fight illegal alien scum here at a local level, and I think people want to keep a guy like that around.
I do not believe illegal immigrants are scum. Do you really think they are scum?
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
I do not believe illegal immigrants are scum. Do you really think they are scum?
yes, they come here and blatantly break the law and steal our resources. they are scum.
Wow. Dehumazing one's foe is the surest, quickest way to hearing them squeaky wheels of the boxcars pullng into camp.
I think it is interesting that we suppose we can effect democratic change in Iraq when we cannot convince the 10% of Mexico that resides in the US to effect change back home.
Our chickens are coming home to roost. We prop up corrupt third world regimes for decades, ignore injustices in slave labor camp countries in drag as democracies and now that the come uppance is due, we hate those who come to us seeking a better life.
How is their crime so different from the collective responsibility we all share by trading with evil regimes? How is Sullivan standing up for America when he voted for the Central America Free Trade Agreement?
What crime have these poor underclass refugees committed? Asking for health care? Populating our rapidly emptying classrooms? Working for slave wages so that builders save a dime and empower the trickle-down economy?
Scum? I hear those boxcars pulling closer.
Yeah, Pedro the dishwasher over at the cafeteria sending money to help his family back home is total scum. Screw Pedro!
It's actually not Pedro the dishwasher. It's Jorge, Andreas, and Victor who work for Keystone plumbing, hired by WN Couch, who contracts with the city of Tulsa, aka your tax dollars to do high-end plumbing work.
Yes, these three are scum for taking high paying jobs from Americans. The contractors that hired them are also scum. Those at the city of Tulsa that hired the contractors are also scum. Heck, I'm scum for not blowing the whistle loud enough.
What this has to do with John Sullivan is beyond me, but I figured I'd go off-topic with the rest of you.
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
It's actually not Pedro the dishwasher. It's Jorge, Andreas, and Victor who work for Keystone plumbing, hired by WN Couch, who contracts with the city of Tulsa, aka your tax dollars to do high-end plumbing work.
Yes, these three are scum for taking high paying jobs from Americans. The contractors that hired them are also scum. Those at the city of Tulsa that hired the contractors are also scum. Heck, I'm scum for not blowing the whistle loud enough.
What this has to do with John Sullivan is beyond me, but I figured I'd go off-topic with the rest of you.
If you were a Christian... that's right, a Christian... you would NEVER say crappola like that...
Evil Tulsan.
See, it works like this, in the REAL world... if a fetus = a baby....
Then an "alien" = a HUMAN BEING...
End of discussion... I am RIGHT... you are WRONG... you're just an imperialist vigilante Tulsa a$$hole...
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008406
quote:
The Americans were reminded that Miss Liberty, like the many millions she's welcomed to these shores, is of foreign birth, the gift of workers, farmers, and shopkeepers and children who donated hundreds of thousands of francs to send her here. They were the ordinary people of France. This statue came from their pockets and from their hearts. The French workers, too, made discoveries. Monsieur Wiart, for example, normally lives in a 150-year-old cottage in a small French town, but for the last year he's been riding the subway through Brooklyn. ``A study in contrasts,'' he said -- contrasts indeed. But he has also told the newspapers that he and his countrymen learned something else at Liberty Island. For the first time, they worked in proximity with Americans of Jewish, black, Italian, Irish, Russian, Polish, and Indian backgrounds. ``Fascinating,'' he said, ``to see different ethnic and national types work and live so well together.'' Well, it's how we like to think of America. And it's good to know that Miss Liberty is still giving life to the dream of a new world where old antagonisms could be cast aside and people of every nation could live together as one.
quote:
To Reagan, the conservative optimist, immigration was a vital part of his vision of this country as "a shining city upon a Hill," in the John Winthrop phrase he quoted so often. It was proof that America remained a land of opportunity, a nation built on the idea of liberty rather than on the "blood and soil" conservatism of Old Europe.
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1986/70386d.htm
quote:
We're bound together because, like them, we too dare to hope -- hope that our children will always find here the land of liberty in a land that is free. We dare to hope too that we'll understand our work can never be truly done until every man, woman, and child shares in our gift, in our hope, and stands with us in the light of liberty -- the light that, tonight, will shortly cast its glow upon her, as it has upon us for two centuries, keeping faith with a dream of long ago and guiding millions still to a future of peace and freedom.
And now we will unveil that gallant lady. Thank you, and God bless you all.
You remember Reagan... or don't you?????????
quote:
If you were a Christian... that's right, a Christian... you would NEVER say crappola like that...
quote:
you're just an imperialist vigilante Tulsa a$$hole
Who said I was a Christian?
Citing actual names and actual contractors makes me a non-christian, imperialist, vigilante, Tulsa a$$hole? And yet someone else makes an off-hand remark about "Pedro the dishwasher" and he is left unscathed?
That's actually very humorous to me, because you don't even know me. :)
Maybe you should let the lemmings on YOUR website you know that you're NOT a Christian...
and maybe you're the one with the problem because I met "Pedro the dishwasher" over a decade ago while working at El Chico's in OKC... he called me "Jefferson" (the name's "jeff" BTW...) because he was WANTING to become a US citizen...
You know whut... your ilk has far too much power in our FREE country... Tulsa has a GREAT resourse in our spanish speaking PEOPLE...
That's right, they are PEOPLE...
It's YOUR freaky elitist conservative mindset that frightens out-of-staters from coming to Tulsa... which pales in comparison to the views of evangelical Christians...
conservative Tulsa bloggers = the worst possible reason to move HERE...
Thanks for playing.
Creep.
Wow, you're angry, aren't you?
How can I make you feel better? My posts here obviously do not help the matter.
Tell me what I should do, then, since I obviously do everything incorrectly.
I promise you, reading your clueless blog made me NEVER want to return to Tulsa... but, that's okay, punkin'...
We value your business... I'm sorry... your call will be answered in the order it was received... [:O]
Which "business" are you referring to?
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
Which "business" are you referring to?
Yawn. I prefer a Sunday crossword to meeciteewurkor mind games...
Well, at least you got the spelling of my name right :)
Speaking of crossword puzzles:
http://tinyurl.com/yy4qwg
Found a really nifty program that will generate them for you.
Nope... tomorrrow is MLS Cup day in Frisco, TX... dumbfounded as to why Tulsa still doesn't have a team...
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/15955884.htm
I miss the Tulsa Roughnecks. Used to watch them at the old TU stadium every time they played there as a kid.
One of my childhood friends was the son of Alan Woodward. I still have an autographed photo of him from way back then.
MCW - YOU said you were a Christian over at your forum. Now you are calling undocumented immigrants 'scum.' Nice. Just like when you called me a homosexual (and why would you think that is an insult, anyway?) and then allowed all your buddies to pile on that bandwagon. Funny that you 'banned' me (oh the bitter tears I cried!) for unseemly lingo ('liquified uric acid' was too unChristian fer ya'll, remember?) and now you are over here calling fellow Christians 'scum' (oh, they are Catholic, not Christians, right?)
The problem here is that Sullivan is taking a legitimate problem and using it for cheap political points. Remember 'Secure Our Nation's Interiour Act,' in which Sully sent out a press release and scored a few TV stories out of? 'SONIA' was DOA, one of about 4K bills filed in the House hopper that year, but Tulsans observing the process would have concluded that the Bill was next to being law. Sullivan's 'victory' was not performing the task of a legislator and securing broad support, negotiating hurdles, picking up allies, etc., his victory was in the mere writing of the bill - which was not written by him anyway.
Sullivan signed off on CAFTA because of the earmarks Oklahoma was threatened to not receive from the infamous Highway Spending Bill if he voted no.
quote:
Originally posted by Cubs
The state has always been run by the Democrats. The Oklahoma Senate has never had a Republican majority and the House has only been Republican for two years now. The state has had an overwhelming majority of Democrat governors across history. Same goes for Tulsa mayors. And we all know what the Republicans thought of our supposed Republican mayor LaFortune.
All I'm saying is don't even think about blaming the Republicans for Oklahoma's problems. The Republicans have never had much power in the state of Oklahoma.
So you blame all Oklahoma's problems on the Democrats but you excuse the Republicans for the NATION'S problems? Are you for real? Nobody could POSSIBLY be THAT thick headed. I'm starting to wonder if you ARE just trolling.
Michael Moore is less partisan and one sided than YOU are.
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
It's actually not Pedro the dishwasher. It's Jorge, Andreas, and Victor...
Bigots aren't interested in the fact that there are almost as many illegal immigrants from Asia as there are from Mexico and all the rest of Latin America combined. Bigots don't wanna know that the fourth largest group of illegal immigrants in the U.S. are pure-dee WHITE folks from Canada. Trash people just need somebody to hate and Mexicans (or what they THINK are Mexicans) are the most visible.
MCW... PM me if you want to borrow a VHS tape of the 1980 Tulsa- NY Cosmos game from Skelly Stadium... complete with Alan Woodward.
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
It's actually not Pedro the dishwasher. It's Jorge, Andreas, and Victor...
Bigots aren't interested in the fact that there are almost as many illegal immigrants from Asia as there are from Mexico and all the rest of Latin America combined. Bigots don't wanna know that the fourth largest group of illegal immigrants in the U.S. are pure-dee WHITE folks from Canada. Trash people just need somebody to hate and Mexicans (or what they THINK are Mexicans) are the most visible.
Quit calling me names and present your justification for lawbreakers.
As I read this thread, I begin to believe that you all are FOR those that break the law. Have I brought up race in this thread? Indeed, I hae not, it was you guys.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
MCW - YOU said you were a Christian over at your forum. Now you are calling undocumented immigrants 'scum.' Nice. Just like when you called me a homosexual (and why would you think that is an insult, anyway?) and then allowed all your buddies to pile on that bandwagon. Funny that you 'banned' me (oh the bitter tears I cried!) for unseemly lingo ('liquified uric acid' was too unChristian fer ya'll, remember?) and now you are over here calling fellow Christians 'scum' (oh, they are Catholic, not Christians, right?)
The problem here is that Sullivan is taking a legitimate problem and using it for cheap political points. Remember 'Secure Our Nation's Interiour Act,' in which Sully sent out a press release and scored a few TV stories out of? 'SONIA' was DOA, one of about 4K bills filed in the House hopper that year, but Tulsans observing the process would have concluded that the Bill was next to being law. Sullivan's 'victory' was not performing the task of a legislator and securing broad support, negotiating hurdles, picking up allies, etc., his victory was in the mere writing of the bill - which was not written by him anyway.
Sullivan signed off on CAFTA because of the earmarks Oklahoma was threatened to not receive from the infamous Highway Spending Bill if he voted no.
I specifically called the three workers you are paying for, scum. Yes, they are. High paying jobs that Americans can and do everyday. The contractor that hired them is even more of a scumbag.
I apologize, I do not remember referring to myself as a Christian. I believe that the Christian faith, upon which this country was founded, to be a very moral and common sense faith. That does not make me one. My personal religious beliefs are my problem, not yours.
When you state "Fellow Christians": can you prove that the three gentleman I called "scum" are Christians? Can you prove that the contractors I referred to are Christians?
Besides, did you know that even some that call themselves "Christians" are, themselves, scum?
Anybody else wish to blast me for exposing lawbreakers? I tire of people bringing up the race / religion card. The law is the law. I think that "legally able to work" is very easy to understand.
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
Quit calling me names and present your justification for lawbreakers.
Pull your head outta yer butt and stop twisting the truth. In the FIRST place, I didn't call you
anything. If you'd try reading with a little less BIAS, you'd see that I was talking about the person that you were quoting.
quote:
As I read this thread, I begin to believe that you all are FOR those that break the law. Have I brought up race in this thread? Indeed, I hae not, it was you guys.
All of us? How 'bout pointing us to one single thing that I've said that even IMPLIES that I support breaking the law.
quote:
Originally posted by USRufnex
MCW... PM me if you want to borrow a VHS tape of the 1980 Tulsa- NY Cosmos game from Skelly Stadium... complete with Alan Woodward.
Wow. You have a tape from 1980 and it still works! That's funny, because it is VERY possible that I was at that game. I'll give you a holler later. I know a guy that would probably want to watch it. I need to go find that picture I mentioned, and scan it so I can share it with you.
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
The law is the law.
Most of the time when people say "the law is the law" what they MEAN is "the law is the law if it's a law that I like." If there is NO LAW that you EVER thumb your nose at (e.g. speeding, under reporting income on your taxes, sneaking a smoke less than 25 feet from the entrance of a public building, ETC.) then you can use "the law is the law" as a valid argument. If that's the case, you are a rare individual. If that ISN'T the case, the argument is just hypocrisy.
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
The law is the law.
Most of the time when people say "the law is the law" what they MEAN is "the law is the law if it's a law that I like." If there is NO LAW that you EVER thumb your nose at (e.g. speeding, under reporting income on your taxes, sneaking a smoke less than 25 feet from the entrance of a public building, ETC.) then you can use "the law is the law" as a valid argument. If that's the case, you are a rare individual. If that ISN'T the case, the argument is just hypocrisy.
You may consider me a law-abiding citizen, and thus a rare individual.
It's hardly valid to compare Federal immigration/labor law to speeding and smoking ordinances/laws.
You must also remember that some actions have much more dire effects on the United States. Millions of people can break the speed laws in this country without much consequence. However, millions of people entering our country illegally can be considered a threat to our sovereign nation.
Now, which do you consider more dire to our nation's security? Speeding, smoking, or entering the United States illegally?
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
The law is the law.
Most of the time when people say "the law is the law" what they MEAN is "the law is the law if it's a law that I like." If there is NO LAW that you EVER thumb your nose at (e.g. speeding, under reporting income on your taxes, sneaking a smoke less than 25 feet from the entrance of a public building, ETC.) then you can use "the law is the law" as a valid argument. If that's the case, you are a rare individual. If that ISN'T the case, the argument is just hypocrisy.
You may consider me a law-abiding citizen, and thus a rare individual.
That sounds kinda like a side-step to me. You didn't say you never break ANY laws, you said, "You may consider me a law-abiding citizen..." I think "political-speake" would be a good term for it.
quote:
It's hardly valid to compare Federal immigration/labor law to speeding and smoking ordinances/laws.
Why not? Either "the law is the law" or "the law AIN'T the law." Like I said, most people (you included, apparently) believe that "the law is the law as long as it's a law that I agree with."
quote:
You must also remember that some actions have much more dire effects on the United States. Millions of people can break the speed laws in this country without much consequence.
Well...lemme see...
How many thousands of people die in the U.S. every due to speeding drivers?
quote:
However, millions of people entering our country illegally can be considered a threat to our sovereign nation.
So can a few tens of thousands of dead motorists.
quote:
Now, which do you consider more dire to our nation's security? Speeding, smoking, or entering the United States illegally?
Why am I not surprised that you haven't done your homework? Could it be because this is the stance that your party has told you to have? If you did the least bit of homework, you would know that only a FRACTION of the people in the U.S. illegally
entered the U.S. illegally. The vast majority of them are here illegally because they overstayed their visas. What's the difference (other than the fact that you haven't done any homework)? Well, how about a few billion wasted dollars on a Berlin wall along the southern border? Seems to me like a few billion in squandered and wasted tax money could pose a threat to our national security.
These are PEOPLE, not criminals... sorry. They're more interested in working and making their lives and the lives of their families BETTER... and these people can honestly contribute to our society, if given a lawful chance to do so...
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/05/20060515-8.html
quote:
We must begin by recognizing the problems with our immigration system. For decades, the United States has not been in complete control of its borders. As a result, many who want to work in our economy have been able to sneak across our border, and millions have stayed.
Once here, illegal immigrants live in the shadows of our society. Many use forged documents to get jobs, and that makes it difficult for employers to verify that the workers they hire are legal. Illegal immigration puts pressure on public schools and hospitals, it strains state and local budgets, and brings crime to our communities. These are real problems. Yet we must remember that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are decent people who work hard, support their families, practice their faith, and lead responsible lives. They are a part of American life, but they are beyond the reach and protection of American law.
We're a nation of laws, and we must enforce our laws. We're also a nation of immigrants, and we must uphold that tradition, which has strengthened our country in so many ways. These are not contradictory goals. America can be a lawful society and a welcoming society at the same time.
quote:
The reality is that there are many people on the other side of our border who will do anything to come to America to work and build a better life. They walk across miles of desert in the summer heat, or hide in the back of 18-wheelers to reach our country. This creates enormous pressure on our border that walls and patrols alone will not stop. To secure the border effectively, we must reduce the numbers of people trying to sneak across.
Therefore, I support a temporary worker program that would create a legal path for foreign workers to enter our country in an orderly way, for a limited period of time. This program would match willing foreign workers with willing American employers for jobs Americans are not doing. Every worker who applies for the program would be required to pass criminal background checks. And temporary workers must return to their home country at the conclusion of their stay.
A temporary worker program would meet the needs of our economy, and it would give honest immigrants a way to provide for their families while respecting the law. A temporary worker program would reduce the appeal of human smugglers, and make it less likely that people would risk their lives to cross the border. It would ease the financial burden on state and local governments, by replacing illegal workers with lawful taxpayers. And above all, a temporary worker program would add to our security by making certain we know who is in our country and why they are here.
Notice my last posts have not contained any "bleeding heart liberal" quotes... they are from Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush and reflect a reasonable pragmatism and compassion that too often seems to come up missing in this discussion. I'll take a plan that combines imperfect pragmatism with a reasonable amount of naive compassion over the anti-immigrant chattering class's latent xenophobia and vigilianteism any day...
off topic again... MCW...
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2803
quote:
I collect videotapes of NASL games. I have 32 Tulsa Roughnecks matches.
Does anyone have any games that I don't have? I would love to trade: DaveBrett@msn.com. Here is my Tulsa collection...
May 27, 1978 Minnesota Kicks 2 at Roughnecks 3
June 24, 1978 Roughnecks 1 at Seattle Sounders 0
1978 Playoff: Roughnecks 1 at Minnesota Kicks 3
Mar 30, 1979 Roughnecks 4 at Seattle Sounders 3
April 14, 1979 Rochester Lancers 2 at Roughnecks 5
June 13, 1979 Cosmos 3 at Roughnecks 2
Mar 29, 1980 Roughnecks 1 at Houston Hurricane 0
April 26, 1980 Cosmos 1 at Roughnecks 2
May 31, 1980 Roughnecks 1 at T. Bay Rowdies 3
June 15, 1980 Roughnecks 3 at Edmonton Drillers 1
June 29, 1980 Roughnecks 1 at Lancers 2 (2nd half + OT)
July 2, 1980 Seattle Sounders 1 at Roughnecks 0
July 9, 1980 Roughnecks at Kicks (1st half only)
Aug 2, 1980 Chcago Sting 1 at Roughnecks 3
Aug 6, 1980 Roughnecks 1 at Sounders 4
1980 Playoff: Roughnecks 1 at Cosmos 8 - Giorgio
Chinaglia 7 goals (This is an Italian rebroadcast with
commentary by Giorgio in Italian.)
June 6, 1981 New England Tea Men 3 at Roughnecks 2
April 3, 1982 Roughnecks at Rowdies (1st half only)
June 5, 1982 T. Bay Rowdies 0 at Roughnecks 2
July 8, 1982 Ft. Lauderdale Strikers 1 at Roughnecks 3
July 17, 1982 Toronto Blizzard 1 at Roughnecks 5
Aug. 4, 1982 Vancouver Whitecaps 2 at Roughnecks 1
1982 Playoffs: Cosmos 0 at Roughnecks 1
Aug 06, 1983 Roughnecks 1 at Earthquakes 2
Aug 21, 1983 Roughnecks 3 at Team America 2
1983 Playoffs: Roughnecks 4 at Strikers 2
1983 SOCCER BOWL: Roughnecks 2 vs Blizzard 0
May 25, 1984 Roughnecks 2 at Chicago Sting 3
June 17, 1984 Roughnecks 2 at Chicago Sting 3
June 24, 1984 Roughnecks 1 at NY Cosmos 3
July 08, 1984 Roughnecks 1 at Earthquakes 4
Aug 16, 1984 Chicago Sting 1 at Roughnecks 2
My web site is: www.DaveBrett.com
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkorI apologize, I do not remember referring to myself as a Christian. I believe that the Christian faith, upon which this country was founded, to be a very moral and common sense faith. That does not make me one. My personal religious beliefs are my problem, not yours.
Well, that also happens to be the 700 Club position, too... how convenient.
Except our founding fathers were deists...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
quote:
Deism in America
Thomas Jefferson, Edgehill Portrait of 1805 by Gilbert Stuart. National Portrait Gallery, Washington, DC.In America, deists played a major role in creating the principle of separation of church and state, and the religious freedom clauses of the First Amendment of the Constitution. American deists include John Quincy Adams, Ethan Allen, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison. Thomas Paine published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout America and Europe.
Elihu Palmer (1764-1806) wrote the "Bible" of American deism in this Principles of Nature (1823), and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York."
Currently in the United States, there is an ongoing controversy as to whether or not America is a "Christian nation". This has spawned a subsidiary controversy over whether or not the Founding Fathers were Christians or deists or something in between. [2] [3] David L. Holmes's The Faiths of the Founding Fathers is a recent study of the subject.
In particular, there is debate over the beliefs of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington, for all of whom the evidence is mixed.
Even if you take the honest debate that tries to imply some of the founding fathers were NOT deists and had beliefs closer to those associated with modern Christianity... No matter how you slice it, the concept of a "personal relationship with Jesus" would have been completely foreign/alien to Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, et. al...
http://www.amazon.com/Faiths-Founding-Fathers-David-Holmes/dp/0195300920
quote:
Why am I not surprised that you haven't done your homework? Could it be because this is the stance that your party has told you to have? If you did the least bit of homework, you would know that only a FRACTION of the people in the U.S. illegally entered the U.S. illegally. The vast majority of them are here illegally because they overstayed their visas. What's the difference (other than the fact that you haven't done any homework)? Well, how about a few billion wasted dollars on a Berlin wall along the southern border? Seems to me like a few billion in squandered and wasted tax money could pose a threat to our national security.
Perhaps you have not done your homework on mee? :)
I am a registered Independent. Not that that holds much weight. I do not accept any major Party's doctrine I do not agree with. I vote for candidates that agree with my mostly conservative viewpoints. While most of the Republicans decided to support Bill LaFortune in the last mayoral elections, I went on record opposed to him. I do not blindly follow anybody. Never have, never will.
You will also notice that I pointed out three individuals who I know have entered this country illegally. One has admitted to it. The other two refused to acknowledge they spoke English. Be they a minority of people entering our country illegally or not, what they have done is illegal.
I know what I see around me. That is mostly what I report on. You can place people into groups and statistics, but it does not detract from the truth I have spoken.
quote:
Originally posted by USRufnex
off topic again... MCW...
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2803
quote:
I collect videotapes of NASL games. I have 32 Tulsa Roughnecks matches.
Does anyone have any games that I don't have? I would love to trade: DaveBrett@msn.com. Here is my Tulsa collection...
May 27, 1978 Minnesota Kicks 2 at Roughnecks 3
June 24, 1978 Roughnecks 1 at Seattle Sounders 0
1978 Playoff: Roughnecks 1 at Minnesota Kicks 3
Mar 30, 1979 Roughnecks 4 at Seattle Sounders 3
April 14, 1979 Rochester Lancers 2 at Roughnecks 5
June 13, 1979 Cosmos 3 at Roughnecks 2
Mar 29, 1980 Roughnecks 1 at Houston Hurricane 0
April 26, 1980 Cosmos 1 at Roughnecks 2
May 31, 1980 Roughnecks 1 at T. Bay Rowdies 3
June 15, 1980 Roughnecks 3 at Edmonton Drillers 1
June 29, 1980 Roughnecks 1 at Lancers 2 (2nd half + OT)
July 2, 1980 Seattle Sounders 1 at Roughnecks 0
July 9, 1980 Roughnecks at Kicks (1st half only)
Aug 2, 1980 Chcago Sting 1 at Roughnecks 3
Aug 6, 1980 Roughnecks 1 at Sounders 4
1980 Playoff: Roughnecks 1 at Cosmos 8 - Giorgio
Chinaglia 7 goals (This is an Italian rebroadcast with
commentary by Giorgio in Italian.)
June 6, 1981 New England Tea Men 3 at Roughnecks 2
April 3, 1982 Roughnecks at Rowdies (1st half only)
June 5, 1982 T. Bay Rowdies 0 at Roughnecks 2
July 8, 1982 Ft. Lauderdale Strikers 1 at Roughnecks 3
July 17, 1982 Toronto Blizzard 1 at Roughnecks 5
Aug. 4, 1982 Vancouver Whitecaps 2 at Roughnecks 1
1982 Playoffs: Cosmos 0 at Roughnecks 1
Aug 06, 1983 Roughnecks 1 at Earthquakes 2
Aug 21, 1983 Roughnecks 3 at Team America 2
1983 Playoffs: Roughnecks 4 at Strikers 2
1983 SOCCER BOWL: Roughnecks 2 vs Blizzard 0
May 25, 1984 Roughnecks 2 at Chicago Sting 3
June 17, 1984 Roughnecks 2 at Chicago Sting 3
June 24, 1984 Roughnecks 1 at NY Cosmos 3
July 08, 1984 Roughnecks 1 at Earthquakes 4
Aug 16, 1984 Chicago Sting 1 at Roughnecks 2
My web site is: www.DaveBrett.com
Wow! That is so cool. I wonder if anybody has ever tried to digitize all of those? It would be really neat to see all of them online.
I saw your comment in the other thread about the commercials. ha! Those would be classic, wouldn't they? Thanks for the links.
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
quote:
Why am I not surprised that you haven't done your homework? Could it be because this is the stance that your party has told you to have? If you did the least bit of homework, you would know that only a FRACTION of the people in the U.S. illegally entered the U.S. illegally. The vast majority of them are here illegally because they overstayed their visas. What's the difference (other than the fact that you haven't done any homework)? Well, how about a few billion wasted dollars on a Berlin wall along the southern border? Seems to me like a few billion in squandered and wasted tax money could pose a threat to our national security.
Perhaps you have not done your homework on mee? :)
I am a registered Independent. Not that that holds much weight. I do not accept any major Party's doctrine I do not agree with. I vote for candidates that agree with my mostly conservative viewpoints. While most of the Republicans decided to support Bill LaFortune in the last mayoral elections, I went on record opposed to him. I do not blindly follow anybody. Never have, never will.
You will also notice that I pointed out three individuals who I know have entered this country illegally. One has admitted to it. The other two refused to acknowledge they spoke English. Be they a minority of people entering our country illegally or not, what they have done is illegal.
I know what I see around me. That is mostly what I report on. You can place people into groups and statistics, but it does not detract from the truth I have spoken.
You know three people out of eleven to fifteen million illegals? Well, I have to admit that's a pretty good sampling. The margin of error on that must be less than about...what...plus or minus 430,000 percent? I guess you HAVE done your homework.
quote:
You know three people out of eleven to fifteen million illegals? Well, I have to admit that's a pretty good sampling. The margin of error on that must be less than about...what...plus or minus 430,000 percent? I guess you HAVE done your homework.
When you ignore what I am stating, and instead try to belittle me with absurd statements, you degrade yourself and your own intelligence.
Address the three people I have mentioned. Do their unlawful actions become insignificant, because you believe they don't represent a certain "sampling" of people?
I am in no position, nor do I have the resources to "sample" millions of people. Do you?
Like I stated. I know what I see around me. It does not make it any less significant. You refuse to address the three specific people I have mentioned. Why is that?
Consider this: I video somebody stealing a car. You say my proof is invalid, because I have not taken video of 100,000 people stealing cars. You cannot take one act of unlawful behavior and try to invalidate it by stating it does not fit a certain pattern.
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
quote:
You know three people out of eleven to fifteen million illegals? Well, I have to admit that's a pretty good sampling. The margin of error on that must be less than about...what...plus or minus 430,000 percent? I guess you HAVE done your homework.
When you ignore what I am stating, and instead try to belittle me with absurd statements, you degrade yourself and your own intelligence.
Nice spin! VERY nice spin!
quote:
Address the three people I have mentioned. Do their unlawful actions become insignificant, because you believe they don't represent a certain "sampling" of people?
I am in no position, nor do I have the resources to "sample" millions of people. Do you?
No, and why WOULD I? It's already been done. But you don't KNOW (or care) that it's been done because you're so convinced of the infallibility of your preconceptions that you see no need to get the facts.
quote:
Like I stated. I know what I see around me.
If you believe that the world looks exactly like what you see around you, your world is very small indeed.
quote:
It does not make it any less significant. You refuse to address the three specific people I have mentioned. Why is that?
What exactly am I supposed to "address" about them?
quote:
Consider this: I video somebody stealing a car. You say my proof is invalid, because I have not taken video of 100,000 people stealing cars. You cannot take one act of unlawful behavior and try to invalidate it by stating it does not fit a certain pattern.
Ya know, I haven't figured out if you have a reading problem or if you're just being obstinate. Based on how many times you've just "got it wrong" about what I've said, I suspect that you're either a very careless reader or you read everything you see with a jaundiced eye. Try slowing down your reading or reading my posts over a couple of times before you respond and then you won't be as likely to miss my point. I mean, I'm not writing on a post-graduate level here and you're not an idiot. There's no reason that you can't understand what I've said other than that you have an agenda and you're trying to make what I say fit a pattern that you EXPECT to see.
Do you respect my opinion as I respect yours?
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
Do you respect my opinion as I respect yours?
I'm getting the feeling that we're getting further and further from the same page with each post. What opinion are you talking about? If you're talking about your apparent
belief that most illegal aliens CAME here illegally then, while I respect your right to HAVE that belief, I can't say I respect the belief itself because it's based on false information.
Still think illegal immigration is a good thing?
http://tinyurl.com/sj4sy
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
Still think illegal immigration is a good thing?
http://tinyurl.com/sj4sy
More bullsh*t spin. Where did anybody say that illegal immigration is a good thing? Do you have some kind of innate inability to debate anything without resorting deception and distortion? Where do you get off pretending to have respect for anyone's opinion when you rely on that kind of sleaze?
A Tulsa cop is shot by a Mexican national, who, for all intents and purposes, shouldn't be here. And you call that bullsh*t spin?
wow.
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
A Tulsa cop is shot by a Mexican national, who, for all intents and purposes, shouldn't be here. And you call that bullsh*t spin?
wow.
See? Here's MORE bullsh*t spin. Did you study under Rush Limbaugh? Nah, even HE'S not THAT dishonest.
What I called bullsh*t spin was the tripe that YOU posted. You're not too stupid to see that, you just (like most right wingers) chose to take it and distort it hoping that there are at least a FEW people here that are dimwitted enough to think I really said what you try to make it look I said. There might be a COUPLE of idiots here but don't expect a big following.
Ya know, maybe I was wrong about you. Maybe you're NOT smart enough to carry on an intelligent debate and that's why you have to resort to spin, distortion and slights of hand to try to make it LOOK like you can carry on an adult conversation. It's kinda hard to tell since just about everything you post is nothing but PURE SPIN.
You're free to comment on the article just like everybody else, PapaSpot. You know I post every reader comment regardless if they agree or not (unless it's just profane). Even "Santa" got his two cents in.
I see I have over-extended my welcome. My apologies to the site admin for straying so much off topic.
Sorry I angered you, PapaSpot. It truly was not my intention.
kind regards
mcw
Okay, looks like I'm gonna have to break this down for you. First, you accuse anyone that doesn't agree with you on every detail of supporting illegal immigration. When I refer to your accusation as bullsh*t spin, you post THIS crap:
quote:
A Tulsa cop is shot by a Mexican national, who, for all intents and purposes, shouldn't be here. And you call that bullsh*t spin?
wow.
Mister, when you accuse me of scoffing at the shooting of a police officer, you go WAY OVER THE LINE. And WHY would you pull some sleazy crap like that? Because you can't carry your end of the argument without spinning things in what amounts to a personal smear and for no other reason than right wing POLITICS.
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
A Tulsa cop is shot by a Mexican national, who, for all intents and purposes, shouldn't be here. And you call that bullsh*t spin?
wow.
See? Here's MORE bullsh*t spin. Did you study under Rush Limbaugh? Nah, even HE'S not THAT dishonest.
What I called bullsh*t spin was the tripe that YOU posted. You're not too stupid to see that, you just (like most right wingers) chose to take it and distort it hoping that there are at least a FEW people here that are dimwitted enough to think I really said what you try to make it look I said. There might be a COUPLE of idiots here but don't expect a big following.
Ya know, maybe I was wrong about you. Maybe you're NOT smart enough to carry on an intelligent debate and that's why you have to resort to spin, distortion and slights of hand to try to make it LOOK like you can carry on an adult conversation. It's kinda hard to tell since just about everything you post is nothing but PURE SPIN.
Broken Record...
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
A Tulsa cop is shot by a Mexican national, who, for all intents and purposes, shouldn't be here. And you call that bullsh*t spin?
wow.
See? Here's MORE bullsh*t spin. Did you study under Rush Limbaugh? Nah, even HE'S not THAT dishonest.
What I called bullsh*t spin was the tripe that YOU posted. You're not too stupid to see that, you just (like most right wingers) chose to take it and distort it hoping that there are at least a FEW people here that are dimwitted enough to think I really said what you try to make it look I said. There might be a COUPLE of idiots here but don't expect a big following.
Ya know, maybe I was wrong about you. Maybe you're NOT smart enough to carry on an intelligent debate and that's why you have to resort to spin, distortion and slights of hand to try to make it LOOK like you can carry on an adult conversation. It's kinda hard to tell since just about everything you post is nothing but PURE SPIN.
Broken Record...
Troll bait.
Sullivan is a craven voice who refused to stir his Party to action. He gets along because he goes along.
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor
I miss the Tulsa Roughnecks. Used to watch them at the old TU stadium every time they played there as a kid.
One of my childhood friends was the son of Alan Woodward. I still have an autographed photo of him from way back then.
I not only remember the Roughnecks, I also dug the Oklahoma Outlaws (and still have the memorabilia); even went to a number of promotional events back in 1984, and weren't their cheerleaders something else?
Illegal immigration and any action to facilitate it or legitimize it is unjustifiable.