Listen to this bit of genius from Senator Kerry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o
I would like to know what the vets on this board think of that.
He's referring to the president and his apparent lack of intelligence, guido.
A 10-second clip is hardly the way for anyone to judge a speech when you don't have the full context.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
He's referring to the president and his apparent lack of intelligence, guido.
A 10-second clip is hardly the way for anyone to judge a speech when you don't have the full context.
The rest of the speech was about trying to curb the increase in college tuition. No real context missing.
He spoke it wrong. He should've said "get US stuck in Irag" or something like that. But misspeaking when making fun of someone who says things like "put food on our families" is humorous.
Thank you RW for your spin...I did not know you were a vet.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
He's referring to the president and his apparent lack of intelligence, guido.
A 10-second clip is hardly the way for anyone to judge a speech when you don't have the full context.
Yeah, I don't think it's any accident that the clip is carefully edited to ten seconds. [}:)]
Fox barely gave it that. But, oh yeah, I'm not a vet so it doesn't matter what I say. Maybe I should start a thread entitled "The Real Reason Kerry Is Not President...Diebold" and only allow computer literate programmers to respond. No vets please.
Here come the Kerry apologists...Go to CNN's main page and read that Kerry admits to mangling his own joke (whatever)
And Waterboy, the opinions of vets pertaining to issues of the military means a heck of a lot more than yours or any other keyboard warrior on the subject. Oh, and GO DIEBOLD GO!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Here come the Kerry apologists...Go to CNN's main page and read that Kerry admits to mangling his own joke (whatever)
And Waterboy, the opinions of vets pertaining to issues of the military means a heck of a lot more than yours or any other keyboard warrior on the subject. Oh, and GO DIEBOLD GO!!!!
You are a poor representative of vets with that attitude. If I carry your logic forward then non-vets opinions toward issues of anything non-military just aren't worth much. If we non vets decide by vote that our military should wear long hair and beads, then they will, regardless of what the vets opinion is. That's how strong a non vets opinion is.
Thank you non-vet. Just sit back and enjoy the freedom others have given you.
Isn't Diebold an ATM company?
Come on SG, everyone knows DIEBOLD is Rove's instrument for voter fraud.
Point, counter point....
Cheney Threatens To Destroy The Earth If Dems Win:
http://www.internetweekly.org/2006/10/cartoon_cheneys_revenge.html
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Thank you non-vet. Just sit back and enjoy the freedom others have given you.
We all paid for that freedom vet. All of us. Our brothers, our sisters, our uncles, our fathers, our grandfathers. We paid for developing your bilious ego. That ego allows you to believe that we are less important than you. We paid with our taxes and our families.
And we're glad we did.
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Here come the Kerry apologists...Go to CNN's main page and read that Kerry admits to mangling his own joke (whatever)
So Kerry mangled the English language and that's why he's not president. I bet the irony in THAT escapes you.
quote:
And Waterboy, the opinions of vets pertaining to issues of the military means a heck of a lot more than yours or any other keyboard warrior on the subject. Oh, and GO DIEBOLD GO!!!!
By that logic, if you're not a combat vet, your opinion doesn't mean squat.
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa
Point, counter point....
Cheney Threatens To Destroy The Earth If Dems Win:
http://www.internetweekly.org/2006/10/cartoon_cheneys_revenge.html
Aox, you are funny, and I'm not saying that to get into a fight. You make me laugh sometimes, and that's a good thing.
[:)]
So, if veteran experience is so important to you, where and when did you serve, Guido?
And since I'm an American citizen, I have the right to speak my mind according to the auspices of the Constitution. The Constitution doesn't say: Free speech to just veterans.
Kerry's comments couldn't have come at a better time. Undecided voters will realize that if they vote for the Democrat in their Senate race, they are putting folks like John Kerry into power. They will then go to the polls and vote Republican. [^] (at least I can hope [;)])
quote:
Originally posted by Cubs
Kerry's comments couldn't have come at a better time. Undecided voters will realize that if they vote for the Democrat in their Senate race, they are putting folks like John Kerry into power. They will then go to the polls and vote Republican. [^] (at least I can hope [;)])
Kerry's comments were taken out of context. Before Kerry made the statement about being sent to Iraq, he said The President was from Texas but now lives in a state of denial. Next he made the comment about studying hard which was directed directly at Bush....not our soldiers. But the repugs will do anything at this point to make you think something else happend outside of the real and obvious situation.
Just now, our President demanded Kerry do a formal apology to our troops rather than using the good road to talk about what he wants the agenda to be for his remaining term.
http://www.johnkerry.com/news/releases/release.html?id=33
"I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq. It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have. "
7 days and counting!
Whatever gets you to sleep at night Waterboy.
Incidentally, all I wanted was an opinion on Kerry's comments from veterans. Perhaps the opinion was he was about to be unfairly swiftboated or that his mangled joke actually was in line with his "terrorizing" comment he made about our troops several months ago. Instead all I got was his apologists or amateur publicists.
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Whatever gets you to sleep at night Waterboy.
Incidentally, all I wanted was an opinion on Kerry's comments from veterans. Perhaps the opinion was he was about to be unfairly swiftboated or that his mangled joke actually was in line with his "terrorizing" comment he made about our troops several months ago. Instead all I got was his apologists or amateur publicists.
I have no problem with sleeping because I value veterans opinions as much as anyone elses. If you want vets opinions only then go to a veterans website. Of course the discourse isn't quite as friendly...
quote:
Originally posted by Cubs
Kerry's comments couldn't have come at a better time. Undecided voters will realize that if they vote for the Democrat in their Senate race, they are putting folks like John Kerry into power. They will then go to the polls and vote Republican. [^] (at least I can hope [;)])
Unfortunately for you, Cubs, people aren't as stupid as you think. I think most people who don't have their heads buried up George Bush's butt are intelligent enough to take this for just what it was--a joke that he flubbed. He tripped on his tongue. You don't seem to have a problem with the fact that your hero does it dozens of times a week. In fact, go look up the word "bushism". Even Republican leaders aren't stupid enough to try to make a big deal out of this. 'Course that doesn't stop people who continually get spanked on message boards from grasping at straws. [}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Whatever gets you to sleep at night Waterboy.
Incidentally, all I wanted was an opinion on Kerry's comments from veterans. Perhaps the opinion was he was about to be unfairly swiftboated or that his mangled joke actually was in line with his "terrorizing" comment he made about our troops several months ago. Instead all I got was his apologists or amateur publicists.
Okay, I'm a veteran and here's my opinion. Only an idiot would try to make something out of a ten second clip without knowing the context of the statement. Got a link to the full video or at least the text of the video? If you do, how 'bout sharing it. Or have you been suckered in by the spinmeisters again?
Now...since you've said that veterans' opinions on the military are somehow worth more and implied that you are a veteran, why don't you answer the question and at least tell us which service you were in? I think we established some time ago that you don't have any combat experience so your opinion is relatively worthless anyway (according to your claim). I served in two branches so chances are we both served in the same one. We can talk shop, eh?
It was a flub just like "Nucular," "Potatoe," and "I did not have sex with that woman."
It's funny no matter who says it. John Kerry lost his own campaign 2 years ago due to mishandling the rowboat veterans guys and being fairly inefectual in his overall campaign. Once again Kerry made a bad response in my opinion. Just say "I flubbed that joke and now the republicans are gonna make a big deal out of something their leader does daily. MAybe they should spend more time teaching their own leader english." and end the statement there. He went into a rollcall of republican nitwits instead. The story wasn't even covered on news outlets like CNN until Kerry made his statement because it WASN'T a big deal.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
It was a flub just like "Nucular," "Potatoe," and "I did not have sex with that woman."
Uhhhh...I don't think that last one was a flub, sgrizzle. Flub implies a lack of intent. I think that one was a carefully planned lie with enough ambiguity built in to keep his donkey out of a legal ringer.
What Kerry said really didn't even make sense to me, it very well could have been something he misspoke, but I haven't heard the context. Sounded to me like he was saying: If you go to college you do well, but if you go in the army you end up in Iraq? He didnt say college but I can't imagine he meant the average guy just going to high school studying hard and doing well so I assume he ment college. Unless he meant that: Those who study hard are more likely to go to college and those who didnt, but want to get ahead, join the army only to end up in Iraq.
I was one of those who went into the army to get my money to go to college. That was and still is a big selling point to join up, its a way to get a leg up if you can't afford it yourself or werent able to get any scholarships. I bet most of the guys I met in the army did it because it was a decent paying job and or got them out of a bad life situation, and many because it could help them get to college. GI Bill.
I honestly don't think I ran into a single person who joined up out of some feeling of high minded duty to their country. I could list a dozen other reasons higher on the list before that one would come up. If for some reason their only option was to join say the British army and get the same benefits they would have, give em 100 dollars a month more and most would have chosen it over the US army lol.
I made a 96 on my ASVAB the highest possible score is a 98.9. I am a C student and I knew guys that had to take it several times to get the minimum 31 score.
I was a 31 Mike, Multichannel Communications Systems Operator, 10th Signal Battalion, Mountain Division. If you must know. Army Achievement Medal, all sorts of purdy little striped pins and awards, liked my Sharp Shooter medal, with my M-16 I could pop a mans head off at a distance of 300 meters like a sledge hammer hittin a watermelon. Didn't get to see any action though, my buddies got sent to the first gulf war right after I had finished my term.
Regardless, most of the guys I met were not the sharpest kids on the block, not the hard, studying, scholastic types. Even I, a C student, was smarter and more intelligent than most. I would often think during field exercises... If an enemy couldn't defeat this army they must be reeeeeeally stupid. Fortunately it seems they are. lol Plus our scientists give us better toys.
Anyway. I dont see any lie in saying that more people in the army are not doing as well as those who went to college and studied hard. If that was the take on what Kerry said. I don't see any lie in stating that those who studied hard, then went on in the civilian world are doing better than most of those who went into the army, especially if it really is true that the average college graduate is doing better than the guy in Iraq. If it was implied that the average college grad is smarter than the average army guy, I would also say that is true. Thus the average army guy really is more stupid and less fortunate than the average college graduate that studied hard. If thats what he meant and thats true? Whats the fuss?
As for why Kerry isn't President. Your exactly right if you mean to say its because he couldn't get his message across, he still apparently can't. At least with a Bushism you can still figure out what he meant to say, as for this, I still don't know what he was trying to say or what people think he said or why they are so upset about it lol?
Artist wrote:
At least with a Bushism you can still figure out what he meant to say,
<end clip>
Sez you.
Especially in the last couple of years or so. It's shocking, frankly, how much Bush has deteriorated as a speaker, especially when you compare him to when he was Texas governor and early in his first term as president.
It genuinely makes me wonder whether all that partying he did until the age of 40 is finally catching up to him with his mental and motor skills.
I won't deny that Bush is a horrible speaker, but I think we're deviating from the topic. John Kerry said the following:
"You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart you can do well, if you don't you get stuck in Iraq."
In my opinion, John Kerry made a mistake because his comments were disparaging to the people serving in Iraq and he should apologize to them.
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
I won't deny that Bush is a horrible speaker, but I think we're deviating from the topic. John Kerry said the following:
"You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart you can do well, if you don't you get stuck in Iraq."
In my opinion, John Kerry made a mistake because his comments were disparaging to the people serving in Iraq and he should apologize to them.
Your response, and Artists, is to the 10 sec. bite. If you can find it listen to his preceding remarks and look at the attempted humorous context. You won't find it on a Fox affiliate though. He was trying to make Bush the object, not the troops.
His attempt failed miserably and he should still apologize. It would be better for him and some of his Democrat colleagues; some are already asking him not to stump for them. Look, I don't have a hate-on for the Democrats, nor am I all warm and snuggly with the Republicans, I just think his remarks were extremely disparaging to the people serving over there. And by the way, I heard the clips preceding this about Bush being in denial and I really don't see the connect that you are trying to make. It may be there, but I don't see it and I rarely (if ever) watch fox - I don't like their spin. I usually get all of my news off the Internet (various sources).
My point is that although he may have been attempting to be humorous, some humor is just in bad taste.
He has no career prospects as a stand-up, that's true! Hate to see this being manipulated by a party frantic to seize on any mis-step to cover their incredible ineptness in so many areas. An apology would be immediately used on political ads in every market where they are in trouble. I jumped to the same conclusion when I saw the bite, and like Artist I thought there was some truth but a politically stupid remark. From my experience doing research on veterans web sites I doubt most non-political vets think an apology is necessary. Hardly anyone signs up for the reasons the Republicans would like you to believe.
Frankly I don't care what the Republicans do with this. Yes, they will politicize it and squeeze every single drop of political capital that they can. But if anyone thinks the Democrats wouldn't do the same if given the same opportunity, I would believe they are mistaken.
But that's really aside from the point that I'm trying to make. If I were serving in Iraq, I would be offended because it appears as an attempt to dress down the military as dumbards. As for veteran response thus far, I believe the VFW has called for an apology and they are one of the largest veteran groups out there.
Perhaps I'm wrong, I've been known to be so plenty of times before. This is merely an opinion.
Kerry's already said that his remark was directed at a C- college cheerleader who doesn't have the brains to change the course in a quagmire that has killed 2,816 American troops for no good reason--104 in October alone.
If anyone needs to apologize to the troops its the desperate Republicans whose tough talk and mindless rubberstamping continues to waste lives. They've misused and abused the power of the greatest nation in history and they don't have the political spine to admit it. We are all stuck in Iraq, and come next Tuesday, we will cast our vote to change the course.
Air Force Requests Emergency Funding To Help Transport Killed And Wounded Soldiers... (//%22http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/31/AR2006103100621_pf.html%22)
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little
Kerry's already said that his remark was directed at a C- college cheerleader who doesn't have the brains to change the course in a quagmire that has killed 2,816 American troops for no good reason--104 in October alone.
If anyone needs to apologize to the troops its the desperate Republicans whose tough talk and mindless rubberstamping continues to waste lives. They've misused and abused the power of the greatest nation in history and they don't have the political spine to admit it. We are all stuck in Iraq, and come next Tuesday, we will cast our vote to change the course.
CL... I could not agree more with you about Iraq.. However, Senator Kerry, not the most eloquent speaker that there ever was, needs to rehearse his lines a little more or remain silent...
The GOP needed this.... Karl needed this... They do not have anything else to sling at the Dems.
If they will accuse McCain of Fathering a child out of wedlock just because he was in the way... If they will out a covert CIA operative to defend their case against Sadam... They will make as many miles of rhetoric out of Kerry's statement as they are given time to..
Trying to defend Kerry only gives this story legs...
Let sleeping dogs lie... [}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
Artist wrote:
At least with a Bushism you can still figure out what he meant to say,
<end clip>
Sez you.
Especially in the last couple of years or so. It's shocking, frankly, how much Bush has deteriorated as a speaker, especially when you compare him to when he was Texas governor and early in his first term as president.
It genuinely makes me wonder whether all that partying he did until the age of 40 is finally catching up to him with his mental and motor skills.
President Bush has some very, uh, "inventive" speaking skills. [;)] I caught bits of his interview with Hannity last night when I was driving home. He said something like: "Bin Laden isn't a 'suicider'. He recruits these 16 year-old kids to be 'suiciders'."
You won't get any retort from me about the blunders of this administration, before or during the war.
I'm a member of an organization called Soldier's Angels; I communicate with and send care packages to an Army helicopter pilot on a weekly basis, so I feel what these guys are having to go through and I don't like it one bit. One doesn't have to agree with the current administration to have sympathy for those putting their lives on the line.
I still feel the same about an apology directly to the troops. One more thing, if Kerry has a speechwriter, that person should be fired.
Even if it wasn't what he meant to say. Can anyone tell me why they think any of the troops would be offended by what he said?
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Even if it wasn't what he meant to say. Can anyone tell me why they think any of the troops would be offended by what he said?
Well, if you read his words Artist, they basically say that you can get an education and be smart, work hard at it, or you'll end up in Iraq. In short, it "appears" that he is calling the troops in Iraq uneducated. At least that has been my point.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Even if it wasn't what he meant to say. Can anyone tell me why they think any of the troops would be offended by what he said?
If they took it to mean "If you're smart, you go to college and become successful. If you're not smart, then you end up in the military."
Al Gore said almost the same thing to a school group I was in (That we weren't smart enough to go to college and be successful) when he was running for VP. Ticked a lot of people off.
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
You won't get any retort from me about the blunders of this administration, before or during the war.
I'm a member of an organization called Soldier's Angels; I communicate with and send care packages to an Army helicopter pilot on a weekly basis, so I feel what these guys are having to go through and I don't like it one bit. One doesn't have to agree with the current administration to have sympathy for those putting their lives on the line.
I still feel the same about an apology directly to the troops. One more thing, if Kerry has a speechwriter, that person should be fired.
You are a great American, Snopes. We should
all do more; "support the troops" requires a little more energy than a freaking faded car magnet.
And I'm not defending Kerry, but he's right. We
are "standing and losing" in Iraq and "cutting and running" in Afghanistan. Its time for the Commander-in-Chief to stop acting like a cheerleader and start acting like a head coach.
You're very kind CL. I'm no great American, just someone that wants to help out where I can. Not to tout it too much, but if anyone does want to sign up for Soldier's Angels, it's easy. They ask that you send one letter a week and one care package a month to the Soldier (or Marine, Air Force, Navy) you are assigned. They tell you not to expect letters because these people are on 16-17 hour days. After sending several nice care packages I was very happy to receive a two page letter from my adopted soldier, who wanted to tell me how grateful he was for the letters, which he called a slice of home. He told me about his wife and their dream of starting up a business, and so much more. His letter really hit home how much these people need some sympathy and support. They are pawns in a world game and just want something from home. He was sharing the goods from my care packages with the other soldiers on a regular basis and said it really helped their morale. If anyone does care to sign up, you can look up Soldier's Angels on the Internet. I'm afraid if I put a link here it may be considered spam.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
If they took it to mean "If you're smart, you go to college and become successful. If you're not smart, then you end up in the military."
If the troops are offended, its because hacks like Rush Limbaugh are desperately trying to make something out of Kerry's ability to mangle the language.
There's only one guy who's better at it, and he always gets a pass. Just last week he said, "We've never been stay the course". Yeah, right.
This summer, he sent James Baker, a
real conservative who understands the world on a level that our President never will, off to Iraq to come up with some new ideas. Baker came back and said we should consider allowing them to partition the country. As a reward for his effort, Bush implied that Baker was senile. I'm not crazy about Baker, especially since he helped put Bush's boy in office (see Florida, 2000), but heck, the guy did help figure out how to disengage from Vietnam.
At some point, the Cheerleader-in-Chief is going to have to look at the scoreboard and realize we are down big.
RW, Papa, and anyone else out there. Army and Air Force. Good enough for ya? BTW, we have established nothing.
Kerry's stubborness is the issue now.
http://www.gop.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=6698
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Kerry's stubborness is the issue now.
http://www.gop.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=6698
I agree that Kerry is being stubborn and selfish about his gaffe. But he was, and is, talking about this:
(http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/28416/civilwarchart.jpg)
quote:
Army and Air Force
Certainly you have my respect, but I disagree with you. I don't think the "issue" is about Kerry's personal ambition, I could care less. In my opinion, this is the same kind of silliness that got him in trouble in 2004. If he hasn't learned to tend to his words by now, then I really don't have any sympathy for him.
The "issue" is really about accountability. Its about "staying the course" when there is no course. Its about finding a course, or at least about finding the people who have the guts to say that we need one. Even if its a course back home, its a direction.
1) Both men are Yale legacies....what's that tell you?
2)Kerry says sorry for "botched joke"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061101/pl_nm/usa_elections_kerry_dc_5
3)How many of our heroes have died since Shrub said "bring 'em on"?The presidunce should apologize for making taunts that led to the deaths of American soldiers. All repug candidates should demand Bush apologize for putting our men and women in harms way and taunting the opposition into killing them.
"...weeks rather than months."
-Vice President Dick Cheney [source: Washington Post]
"My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators."
-Vice President Dick Cheney [source: Washington Post]
"They want to the get rid of Saddam Hussein, and they will welcome as liberators the United States when we come to do that."
-Vice President Dick Cheney [source: Washington Post]
"The campaign will be unlike any we have ever seen in the history of warfare, with breathtaking precision, almost eye-watering speed, persistence, agility and lethality."
-Vice Admiral Timothy Keating, commander of U.S. naval forces in the Gulf [source: Washington Post]
"It could last, you know, six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."
-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld [source: Washington Post]
"Support for Saddam, including within his military organization, will collapse at the first whiff of gunpowder."
-Former Pentagon Chairman Richard Perle [source: Washington Post]
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed."
-President George Bush [source: Whitehouse.gov]
"I have a special word for Secretary Rumsfeld, for General Franks, and for all the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States: America is grateful for a job well done."
-President George Bush (being careful to use the troops as shields in this praise of Rumsfeld and Franks) [source: Whitehouse.gov]
"It's very important for us to stay the course, and we will stay the course."
-President George Bush [source: US Department of Defense]
Remember to go vote Tuesday against the people who waisted our credibility, our world stature and our capital. That would be John Sullivan if you are from Tulsa!
I sometimes think Cheney is there to try and make Bush look like the smart one.
Kerry's written version includes the word "Us" in his joke.
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
I still feel the same about an apology directly to the troops.
If he meant to insult Bush and it just came out wrong, why should he apologize to the troops? It seems to me like clarification that wasn't trying to insult them would be all that's needed.
quote:
One more thing, if Kerry has a speechwriter, that person should be fired.
We're doing a whole lot of speculation based on one ten second clip posted by someone on YouTube. We don't know what the context was and we don't know if he was following a speech written by a speech writer, if he was ad libbing or if he just got his tongue crossed. In fact, if we KNEW the context it might never have been an issue. But the person that posted the video eliminated all context. That makes me suspicious right off. Another thing that makes me suspicious is that, outside of Fox News and a handful of Republicans possibly attempting to exploit and spin this, there's almost no news coverage of it.
"While he never quite apologized for his remarks Monday at Pasadena City College, Kerry said he had not sought to offend the troops, but rather had deviated slightly from a prepared text that made an effort to poke fun at President Bush.
"My statement yesterday was a botched joke about the president," Kerry said as Democrats attempted to cool anger over his remarks at a campaign rally for Democratic gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides."
Air Force Times (//%22http://www.airforcetimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2323006.php%22)
I'll add one more thing even though I've said it before. I'm sick and damn tired of people using the men and women of the military (and, yes, veterans) as political pawns. Yes, both sides do it and it's equally disgusting either way. But in this case, it's the right wing that's doing it and it's a new low. Maybe Kerry SHOULD apologize to the troops for saying something that could be exploited by right wingers against the military. But the right wingers should ALSO apologize for using it to exploit the troops. Regardless of what you think of his politics, Kerry is a highly decorated war veteran and I doubt if anyone here (except probably Cubs and Guido) still buys into the shameless bullcrap smear committed by the Republican Party through their political whores like the SwiftBoat Pilots.
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
RW, Papa, and anyone else out there. Army and Air Force. Good enough for ya? BTW, we have established nothing.
You didn't mention anything about your combat experience.
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
QuoteOriginally posted by snopes
I still feel the same about an apology directly to the troops.
Quote
If he meant to insult Bush and it just came out wrong, why should he apologize to the troops? It seems to me like clarification that wasn't trying to insult them would be all that's needed.
Quote
You're assuming that he is being entirely truthful in his clarification and giving him a free ride on what he "meant" to say but not taking him to task on what he actually said.
Regarding things being taken out of context; I have read the jokes in leading up to his comments and it doesn't change the meaning of his uneducated troop comments at all, at least for me.
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
You're assuming that he is being entirely truthful in his clarification and giving him a free ride on what he "meant" to say but not taking him to task on what he actually said.
You mean like we assumed that he was following the script of the speech that was written for him? By all means, we should ASSUME that he's lying. After all, as a decorated war veteran he has every reason to insult the troops. quote:
Regarding things being taken out of context; I have read the jokes in leading up to his comments and it doesn't change the meaning of his uneducated troop comments at all, at least for me.
Got a link? How 'bout sharing is so we can decide for ourselves instead of taking your word (opinion) for it.
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
QuoteOriginally posted by snopes
I still feel the same about an apology directly to the troops.
Quote
If he meant to insult Bush and it just came out wrong, why should he apologize to the troops? It seems to me like clarification that wasn't trying to insult them would be all that's needed.
Quote
You're assuming that he is being entirely truthful in his clarification and giving him a free ride on what he "meant" to say but not taking him to task on what he actually said.
Regarding things being taken out of context; I have read the jokes in leading up to his comments and it doesn't change the meaning of his uneducated troop comments at all, at least for me.
Snopes don't be dopes....the comments were clearly not about the troops but about the dunce trying to run the world....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15519404/
"The context was unmistakable: Texas; the state of denial; stuck in Iraq. No interpretation required.
And Mr. Bush and his minions responded by appearing to be too stupid to realize that they had been called stupid.
They demanded Kerry apologize to the troops in Iraq.
And so he now has.
That phrase — "appearing to be too stupid" — is used deliberately, Mr. Bush.
Because there are only three possibilities here.
One, sir, is that you are far more stupid than the worst of your critics have suggested; that you could not follow the construction of a simple sentence; that you could not recognize your own life story when it was deftly summarized; that you could not perceive it was the sad ledger of your presidency that was being recounted.
This, of course, compliments you, Mr. Bush, because even those who do not "make the most of it," who do not "study hard," who do not "do their homework," and who do not "make an effort to be smart" might still just be stupid, but honest.
No, the first option, sir, is, at best, improbable. You are not honest.
The second option is that you and those who work for you deliberately twisted what Sen. Kerry said to fit your political template; that you decided to take advantage of it, to once again pretend that the attacks, solely about your own incompetence, were in fact attacks on the troops or even on the nation itself.
The third possibility is, obviously, the nightmare scenario: that the first two options are in some way conflated.
That it is both politically convenient for you and personally satisfying to you, to confuse yourself with the country for which, sir, you work.
A brief reminder, Mr. Bush: You are not the United States of America."
Here's a nice bit of right wing hypocrisy:
White House defends Bush 'comma' on Iraq war (//%22http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061005/ts_alt_afp/usiraqbushpolitics_061005184252%22)
As far as I know, Bush has never apologized to the troops for HIS comments nor was a big deal made over them. All that proves is that the Republicans have a much more effective spin/smear machine than the Democrats do.
Y'know how to do a good Bush impression: pretend your upper lip is frozen stiff from years of cocain abuse, and when speaking, purse your lips like you are sucking all the truth out of the room.
Kerry was obviously was trying to make fun of Bush. The first time I heard it, it did not even register that he was mocking the troops. Not surprised that the GOP has nothing else to run on but the same old smear and fear.
Kerry on Imus on the WFAN clip page:
http://wfan.com/imusinstantreplay/
RW's spin? You've got to be kidding me? This whole thing is manufactured by the Republican Machine. It is classic Rovian strategy. Twist and distort...create a sideline controversy to distract from the real issues. It won't work though. It does the Repubs no good to focus ANY attention on Iraq, regarless of the circumstances.
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Thank you RW for your spin...I did not know you were a vet.
Kenosha: That's right, Karl Rove made John Kerry make that joke. Karl Rove also made Kerry say that our soldiers in Iraq were "going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the--of--the historical customs, religious customs."
http://newsbusters.org/stories/kerry_us_troops_terrorizing.html?q=node/3092
Yep, Karl Rove also climbed into his time machine to 1971 and forced Kerry to testify before Congress as follows:
I would like to talk on behalf of all those veterans and say that several months ago in Detroit we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit - the emotions in the room and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.
They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.
We call this investigation the Winter Soldier Investigation.
http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Quotes
John Kerry is a victim of Karl Rove
John Kerry would never insult our soldiers since he is a war veteran.
Karl Rove has guaranteed an October surprise in interviews around the country. I'm sure he has more in store. I wish you young f*rts who wern't even born or old enough to be at risk would stop bringing up this sh*t that required having been there to understand. You're armchair quarterbacks with "W, The President" tattooed on your 'arses. You sound like whining old John Birchers. I'll agree with you on this point gyro666, if you wern't old enough to serve in Nam stop bringing it up to make points today. Your man didn't serve there and neither did any of his ruling buddies.
You and Cubs are why people get so pissed off about political forums and throw up their hands in disgust. Rewriting current events and history is not enough. You have to cross culturalize, travel in time to make moral judgements on those who had the guts to serve under fire and then pillory them when they dare to disagree with you and the regime. I cannot explain the depths of contempt I have for you and your ilk who have kept these morons in office so long with your polluted thinking. Watergate to you was just a Democratic conspiracy. Go Diebold indeed. Might as well tattoo 'arsehole and an arrow on your butt so the other Bushies don't get confused.
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Yap yap yap
Well, since you're not a combat veteran your opinion doesn't count anyway, now does it? Or does your ignorant little rule only apply to OTHER people?
If you weren't in Vietnam you don't have a CLUE what did and didn't happen there. But I won't let you bait me into lowering myself to your level by using veterans as a political pawn.
http://www.registeredmedia.com/gallery/showimage.php?s=ec3a464f75dc7cccf6bb2bbad75bcf20&i=1664&catid=newimages
BTW, PAPA, please do not presume anything because I choose not to answer your questions.
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
http://www.registeredmedia.com/gallery/showimage.php?s=ec3a464f75dc7cccf6bb2bbad75bcf20&i=1664&catid=newimages
BTW, PAPA, please do not presume anything because I choose not to answer your questions.
Isn't that what Bush said about his years of cocaine abuse? Nice side step but no cigar.
Dear World
Please Know that we are Intent on Changing the Direction of our Country
by Debi Smith
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1102-30.htm
"Yes, we know we have a lot to work on. And yes we know we have some growing up to do. And hopefully on November 7th you'll see an example of us doing just that. (Then again, if you don't, please remember that looks can be deceiving.) "
Yep, as expected, more name calling.
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Yep, as expected, more name calling.
"Deserved" name calling.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Yep, as expected, more name calling.
"Deserved" name calling.
Who called who what name?
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Yep, as expected, more name calling.
"Deserved" name calling.
Who called who what name?
I think he means "dishonest" and "incompetent".
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Yep, as expected, more name calling.
The fhead running our country should be called every bad name in the book....The SOB has made the world a very dangerous place. He should be hung for treason...
Nuclear Lab Breach Could Be 'Devastating'
CBS News Exclusive: Data Found In Drug Raid Contains Weapons-Design Secrets
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/03/national/main2151021.shtml
Expert: GOP plays politics with intel
WASHINGTON, Nov. 3 (UPI) -- Muted Republican reaction to news that nuclear weapons information was posted on a government Web site has been slammedby non-proliferation experts.
http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=20061103-030156-6711r