Once again in this crime ridden city I was victimized. My street legal scooter was stolen right out of my driveway.
Less than 48 hours later it was found 1.5 blocks from my house. "At the officer's discretion," according to the less than helpful police officer at the station, they had overpriced, price-gouging Storey Wrecker come and tow my scooter away. I know I could have walked there faster than Storey was able to get there. Thanks to Officer [name deleted by moderator], I am out $65 plus the damage done to my scooter.
Thanks once again our wonderful police that protect and serve my tax paying butt.
quote:
Originally posted by dwmorris
Once again in this crime ridden city I was victimized. My street legal scooter was stolen right out of my driveway.
Less than 48 hours later it was found 1.5 blocks from my house. "At the officer's discretion," according to the less than helpful police officer at the station, they had overpriced, price-gouging Storey Wrecker come and tow my scooter away. I know I could have walked there faster than Storey was able to get there. Thanks to Officer [name deleted by moderator], I am out $65 plus the damage done to my scooter.
Thanks once again our wonderful police that protect and serve my tax paying butt.
Did TPD have your contact information - home, cell, etc. - and did they make an attempt to contact you at time of recovery? If they couldn't contact you, what choice did they have?
We called in to report it stolen. An officer came to our house where it was stolen from. They took a report that included our phone number. We were home all day today. The only call we received was Storey Wrecker is towing your scooter right now.
And we called Storey Wrecker when we got the phone call from the police. They hadn't even finished towing it to the shop.
My wife is a college student. I am graduating from college in a week. We have three kids. I don't have the money to pay for unnecessary towing fees.
This is what I mean by no compassion in Tulsa. A simple phone call or even driving the cruiser over 1.5 blocks would have sufficed to make someone have a better day.
quote:
Originally posted by dwmorris
We called in to report it stolen. An officer came to our house where it was stolen from. They took a report that included our phone number. We were home all day today. The only call we received was Storey Wrecker is towing your scooter right now.
And we called Storey Wrecker when we got the phone call from the police. They hadn't even finished towing it to the shop.
My wife is a college student. I am graduating from college in a week. We have three kids. I don't have the money to pay for unnecessary towing fees.
This is what I mean by no compassion in Tulsa. A simple phone call or even driving the cruiser over 1.5 blocks would have sufficed to make someone have a better day.
Under the circumstances, I'd be upset too. Don't hesitate to call the Chief's Section - (596.9378)- and let your feeling be known. A Thank You for the recovery, but a suggestion on how the return could have been better handled will at least let the brass know a problem exists. Due to such a shortage of officers in the field, most officers have calls holding in their districts at about any given time, so moving on to the next call is priority. Although it doesn't minimize the adverse effect the situation had on you, maybe it will at least make it more understandable.
It is also possible that the officer had your contact info but a complete writeup had yet to be done. Another officer found it, found out it was stolen, and had it impounded.
Heaven forbid we would actually blame the person who stole the thing in the first place.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Heaven forbid we would actually blame the person who stole the thing in the first place.
Yes, the original perp's are at fault. But the police did not make it any better by revictimizing me.
It would be nice to know who they were so we can get them off the street. The police are not investigating it. Other priorities, such as taking reports from other victims. I had to get my fingerprints to get my drivers license. They could have fingerprinted the scooter. But I suppose they would rather use their resources to continue taking reports and writing tickets.
I really don't know what they do. I would think they would be at least in the business of preserving life. But when I reported my mother suicidal, the officer took a report and I had to take it upon myself to call all the surrounding law enforcement agencies to make them aware of a pending death. I suppose their priorities then was filling out the proper reports and impounding her car when they found her dead body. Oh, and heaven forbid they call me when they find her. I didn't find out until I called around to see what was going on with the investigation. They finally told me 2 days later.
[name calling deleted by moderator] Her suicide note had my phone number written 3 or 4 times.
dwmorris,
I took a look at your home page and I'm sorry for everything you have gone through. I don't know why so many bad things happen to you, but you can't let it consume you. Let it go and go take a walk, have a picnic, something! I'm no therapist or anything, but I know that if you hang on to so much anger, it is not healthy.
And I really don't think your home page is helping you. Maybe you could take up a hobby -- maybe photography. Photograph beautiful things and maybe you can forget about all the ugliness in the world. Even if it is just for a little while.
Good luck to you.
- Angie
Have you made ANY attempt to call the police and ask them to look into why your scooter was towed? If they find the police did not notify you, the police WILL ask Storey to refund your tow charge. Contact the police Records Division and ask to speak with the wrecker service liaison officer. He can authorize the refund. When a vehicle is recovered, the Records clerk makes a note with the report of the time and phone number when the attempt was make to contact the owner. I'm confident if they made an attempt to contact you, it will be with the report.
And if you don't like Storey Wrecker being the service the City contracts with, contact your city council rep and have them look into contracting with another wrecker service. The City has tried in the past to find a wrecker service who can handle the volume, but none were found up to the task.
Remember Storey were the people who let the Child-murderer's van wander off...
Try to get a refund of the fees, you will get no further with an "investigation." I have had 3 cars broken into and property stolen, no fingerprints, no investigation. They generally don't do it with 4 wheel transportation, much less 2.
Last night Storey told me I could pick it up this morning. There would be no storage fee.
Today I picked it up. 2 days storage fee because it came in at 11:35pm last night. So that is 2 days in Storey's book. Plus they told me the hook up fee was 55 dollars. They charged me 65 dollars today. So my total tow bill was $127.48 for a 1.5 blocks from my house.
I have already called the police records division. I got the run around as I expected.
[Unsubstantiated accusations deleted by moderator.]
Furthermore, the excuse of not handling enough volume is ridiculous. The obvious answer is to divide the area between 4 or 5 contractors instead of allowing one company to price gouge.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Heaven forbid we would actually blame the person who stole the thing in the first place.
Thats kind of my feeling on this too. TPD did find your scooter. Would have rathered they didnt look and they didnt find it? Then you would be out the total cost of the scooter. Not just the $65 and repairs.
If it were me, I would be happy they found it and thank them. Afterall, TPD is overworked and understaffed and dealing with bigger crimes then a stolen scooter.
Its seems this may just be another example of someone focusing on the bad. Nevermind all the good things in life. (scooter found, wife graduting from college, three kids, etc.) The bad thing always takes your vision away from the good. Thats JMO. [;)]
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Remember Storey were the people who let the Child-murderer's van wander off...
Off topic, but I think it was the wife or some other related person of the child murderer that stole it to try and help destory the evidence against him. Maybe I watch CSI to much. lol![:P]
On Monday, call 596-1396. He is the wrecker service liaison person. Calling anybody else will get you no where. He is the ONLY person who can authorize the towing fees be refunded. He will look into the attempts made to contact you and make a decision based on what he finds out.
This is just life in the big city. It's not a problem with TPD- its like that everywhere in every city. Not saying its right, but thats how it is.
I would not trust them with nothing. I seen Tulsa cops go after someone at the intersection of 129th & 11 for no reason that I could see. The guy made a left turn and the cop was waiting at the light and just flicked on the lights and went after the car. Go figure.[xx(]
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
On Monday, call 596-1396. He is the wrecker service liaison person. Calling anybody else will get you no where. He is the ONLY person who can authorize the towing fees be refunded. He will look into the attempts made to contact you and make a decision based on what he finds out.
Thank you for the information. I will call on Monday.
I would not trust them with nothing. I seen Tulsa cops go after someone at the intersection of 129th & 11 for no reason...
And your basis for that is, what? Are you saying police are only allowed to stop people for traffic violations? Police can't stop somebody for any other crime as long as they are driving a car? But because YOU didn't see any traffic violation, you make the accusation the person was stopped for no reason. Go figure.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I would not trust them with nothing. I seen Tulsa cops go after someone at the intersection of 129th & 11 for no reason...
And your basis for that is, what? Are you saying police are only allowed to stop people for traffic violations? Police can't stop somebody for any other crime as long as they are driving a car? But because YOU didn't see any traffic violation, you make the accusation the person was stopped for no reason. Go figure.
sauerkraut - guess you noticed whether seat belts were in use as well? Cops do, along with descriptions of suspect vehicles used in crimes, etc. etc. In the event someone is threatening you or the family, or breaking in your home or car, consider calling the fire department?
Morris - As someone said, call on Monday, you will get no help on weekends as the offices and divisions are no longer staffed, due to man shortage. Also, if you aren't happy with the answer, call the non-emergency number and ask for a supervisor to call you, and you can also follow up with the chief's section on Monday, you have plenty of options for constructive critism, rather than complaining with maybe not all the facts. Maybe your home number was typed in the report incorrectly, maybe the report wasn't in the system yet, only the tag to be shown stolen. I really think it's sad that you feel so bitter towards the officers that put their life on the line everyday for our safety, and I'm sorry, but your scooter, as my car would be, is no priority compared to 28 homicides, gang wars and over violent crime that is out of control. I know to you, it is your priority, but you aren't the only citizen in the city. You could be a little bit grateful that they found the scooter in the frist place. Also, I'd be careful dropping names all around, the [name deleted by moderator] or officer [name deleted by moderator] may not appreciate your comments, especially if they are found to be incorrect.
Some other ideas for the traffic stop, did you run the tag to verify it wasn't stolen? Or check to see if the vehicle owner had any felony warrants . . . you didn't see anything because you haven't spent 6 months in an training academy and another 16 weeks being trained in the field.
Have any of you considered taking the Citizen's Police Academy? Maybe then you'd have a better understanding of how the department is actually run and then your complaints could be based on fact and may actually be helpful in improving things rather than just random gripes with no basis for them.
Storey Wrecker is one of the biggest scams this city has going.....
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the police department. I'm sure there is a valid reason why the officer towed the scooter.
As far as investigating the crime itself, I'm sorry but it is simply a manpower and budget issue. We have to rate crime in the level of severity and then respond to it in that same way.
Once we arrive at the scene, we have very little time to spend on each call because there are numerous others holding. This limits how much we can do at the scene (fingerprinting, interviewing, searching for suspects, vehicles ect.)
We usually don't fingerprint stolen scooters but lets just say that it was done and they found a complete fingerprint. The fingerprint would be given to our police lab (where they examine fingerprints). The police lab is just as understaffed and overworked. Since the crime is not a violent one, the fingerprint would be placed at the bottom of the priority list (all violent crime comes first and then the list is ranked other crime types and then by date. This would mean your crime would be low on the priority list. That means it could be over a year before the lab personnel could examine the print.
Right now this is the call load on a Sunday.
Sunday 04/23/06 7:51pm
UDE 9 active calls, 1 call holding
UDSW 10 active calls, 13 calls holding
UDN 12 active calls, 4 calls holding.
If you want to improve this, you can contact your city councilor and the mayor's office. Please tell them to increase the police budget during the next fiscal year. We simply need more officers and more resources.
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
This is just life in the big city. It's not a problem with TPD- its like that everywhere in every city. Not saying its right, but thats how it is.
I really don't feel it is. I've called the police in a lot of big cities usually on a Friday and Saturday night over something serious, but not dangerous and not only have they've been really quick, but often you end up with a lot of them.
I don't blame TPD, they just can't operate on that budget.
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
If you want to improve this, you can contact your city councilor and the mayor's office. Please tell them to increase the police budget during the next fiscal year. We simply need more officers and more resources.
Maybe you should be a little more specific: "If you want to improve this, you can contact your city councilor and the mayor's office. Please tell them
to decrease other municipal services (and be specific - pools, oh wait, parks, already wiped out, mowing schedules, too late, administrative functions like accounting and legal staff, probably not a good idea to gut those any further, hmmmm . . .) and/or raise taxes to increase the police budget during the next fiscal year."
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
If you want to improve this, you can contact your city councilor and the mayor's office. Please tell them to increase the police budget during the next fiscal year. We simply need more officers and more resources.
Maybe you should be a little more specific: "If you want to improve this, you can contact your city councilor and the mayor's office. Please tell them to decrease other municipal services (and be specific - pools, oh wait, parks, already wiped out, mowing schedules, too late, administrative functions like accounting and legal staff, probably not a good idea to gut those any further, hmmmm . . .) and/or raise taxes to increase the police budget during the next fiscal year."
One that is still up ,as far as I can tell, are the "Excecutive Order Contracts" that the previous fellow put in play..
Perhaps this is just a matter of following cancellation procedures for the contracts..
There is mucho green dinero$$ in those contracts.....[;)]
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah
"If you want to improve this, you can contact your city councilor and the mayor's office. Please tell them to decrease other municipal services (and be specific - pools, oh wait, parks, already wiped out, mowing schedules, too late, administrative functions like accounting and legal staff, probably not a good idea to gut those any further, hmmmm . . .) and/or raise taxes to increase the police budget during the next fiscal year."
Would that have really been what it would have taken to get the officer in question to make a phone call? Their cellular provider must be atrocious.
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
If you want to improve this, you can contact your city councilor and the mayor's office. Please tell them to increase the police budget during the next fiscal year. We simply need more officers and more resources.
Maybe you should be a little more specific: "If you want to improve this, you can contact your city councilor and the mayor's office. Please tell them to decrease other municipal services (and be specific - pools, oh wait, parks, already wiped out, mowing schedules, too late, administrative functions like accounting and legal staff, probably not a good idea to gut those any further, hmmmm . . .) and/or raise taxes to increase the police budget during the next fiscal year."
One that is still up ,as far as I can tell, are the "Excecutive Order Contracts" that the previous fellow put in play..
Perhaps this is just a matter of following cancellation procedures for the contracts..
There is mucho green dinero$$ in those contracts.....[;)]
What are the executive order contracts? I am not familiar with those.
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
If you want to improve this, you can contact your city councilor and the mayor's office. Please tell them to increase the police budget during the next fiscal year. We simply need more officers and more resources.
Maybe you should be a little more specific: "If you want to improve this, you can contact your city councilor and the mayor's office. Please tell them to decrease other municipal services (and be specific - pools, oh wait, parks, already wiped out, mowing schedules, too late, administrative functions like accounting and legal staff, probably not a good idea to gut those any further, hmmmm . . .) and/or raise taxes to increase the police budget during the next fiscal year."
One that is still up ,as far as I can tell, are the "Excecutive Order Contracts" that the previous fellow put in play..
Perhaps this is just a matter of following cancellation procedures for the contracts..
There is mucho green dinero$$ in those contracts.....
[;)]
What are the executive order contracts? I am not familiar with those.
An "Executive Order Contract" is a Contract with a Company.. Individual.. or entity.. That is signed by the Mayor and needs no approval by any other authority..
The Lawyer for the City just makes sure that if the contract is uncovered that there would be a way to cover the CEO's backside..
I have never seen a complete list of the contracts incumbered by the prior Administration but what I have seen boggles the mind...
no extra cash$$??
quote:
Originally posted by patric
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah
"If you want to improve this, you can contact your city councilor and the mayor's office. Please tell them to decrease other municipal services (and be specific - pools, oh wait, parks, already wiped out, mowing schedules, too late, administrative functions like accounting and legal staff, probably not a good idea to gut those any further, hmmmm . . .) and/or raise taxes to increase the police budget during the next fiscal year."
Would that have really been what it would have taken to get the officer in question to make a phone call? Their cellular provider must be atrocious.
The city of Tulsa does not issue cell phones to uniformed officers. Usually the records division or dispatch will make the phone call if the phone number is available.
04/23/06 10:49pm
UDN 13 active calls, no calls holding
UDE 16 active calls, 4 calls holding
UDSW 14 active calls, no calls holding
We usually don't fingerprint stolen scooters but lets just say that it was done and they found a complete fingerprint. The fingerprint would be given to our police lab (where they examine fingerprints). The police lab is just as understaffed and overworked. Since the crime is not a violent one, the fingerprint would be placed at the bottom of the priority list (all violent crime comes first and then the list is ranked other crime types and then by date. This would mean your crime would be low on the priority list. That means it could be over a year before the lab personnel could examine the print.
And a finger print on an item that is sitting out in the open is useless. For example, lets say your car gets broken into at Woodland Hills mall. An officer finds a finger print on the car. That finger print, which could belong to anybody who walked by that car and touched it, does not mean they are the suspect. The fingerprint has to be in a place where only the suspect could have been ilegally. In this case, if the finger print was inside the car, that is a different story. But a finger print simply someplace on a scooter setting outside in someone's yard or on the street gets you no where.
An "Executive Order Contract" is a Contract with a Company.. Individual.. or entity.. That is signed by the Mayor and needs no approval by any other authority..
But these contracts still go out for bid, just like with any other item, unless the requesting body can show a cause for a 'sole source', which means only one person/vendor can supply the requested item.
I know the wrecker contract goes out to bid, but usually Storey is the only one who submits a valid bid. And by the way, the City does not make any money on cars that are towed.
I'm sure it isn't so, but this looks like there are only 31 police cars watching the entire city. I guess some are writing tickets which may not be listed as an "active call." I would guess traffic accidents would be an active call or a call holding - so where are the rest of the cars and what were they doing?
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
...Right now this is the call load on a Sunday.
Sunday 04/23/06 7:51pm
UDE 9 active calls, 1 call holding
UDSW 10 active calls, 13 calls holding
UDN 12 active calls, 4 calls holding...
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
One that is still up ,as far as I can tell, are the "Excecutive Order Contracts" that the previous fellow put in play..
Perhaps this is just a matter of following cancellation procedures for the contracts..
There is mucho green dinero$$ in those contracts.....[/navy][/size=2][;)]
There's nothing nefarious about the Mayor administering contracts (in the context of the budget and Council appropriations). It's his/her Charter responsibility . . . .
quote:
Artile III
SECTION 1.4 EXECUTIVE AND ADMINISTRATIVE POWERS AND DUTIES. The Mayor shall be the chief executive and administrative officer of the city and shall:
D. Expend as provided by law the funds of the city in accord with the adopted operating and capital budgets of the city;
H. Establish standards of administration and coordinate all administrative services;
J. Administer and enforce the terms and conditions of all contracts;
K. Collect, deposit, invest, and maintain accounts of all revenues, fines, licenses, fees, and funds of the city;
L. Establish and supervise a system of general and cost accounting and maintain inventories of the property of the city.
M. Purchase equipment, materials, supplies, and services and construct, operate, maintain, and repair public improvements, buildings, and facilities;
N. Establish, construct, and maintain streets, sidewalks, alleys, public ways, waterworks, sanitary sewers, sewage disposal systems, storm sewers, storm water drainage systems, waterports, airports, solid waste management systems, transportation systems, and other public improvements and facilities;
I'm sure it isn't so, but this looks like there are only 31 police cars watching the entire city. I guess some are writing tickets which may not be listed as an "active call." I would guess traffic accidents would be an active call or a call holding - so where are the rest of the cars and what were they doing?
You are assuming each call only takes one officer/car/person, which is rarely so. For instance, the shooting over the weekend near 12th and Erie, I'm sure, took multiple officers, as they were seaching for both victims and suspects.
Some calls only take one officer, such as most wrecks, a report call, or something similar.
Each of the three shifts have what are called 'minimum manning levels'. I think you would be surprised how low that number actually is.
And we keep pouncing on officers wasting their time writing tickets. When more people are injured and we spend more money on property damage then all other crimes combined 10 fold, will we realize the police can't ignore people who violate traffic laws. Every single wreck was preceeded by someone violating a traffic law.
I am trying to picture a huge Storey wrecker "hooking up" to a little scooter and pulling it up onto the back of the flatbed and then driving it down to the garage. Ridiculous.
The question still stands - how many cars are on at the time specified earlier and where were they and what were they doing.
I'm not beating up anyone for writing tickets or anything else. I am simply trying to understand the manpower utilized and how and what it takes to improve that.
If each call averaged 2 cars thats 62 cars - is that all?
Is the requirement more?
Do we as citizens need to pony up more sales tax or whatever to fund more police protection?
Do we need some type of rapid deployment of new officers?
Do we need to face the fact that attention to crime prevention and its costs need to be addressed?
These are the type things I'm interested in - not as suggested as "pouncing" on anyone. If I am "pouncing" on anything it is pouncing on the problem and searching for a solution.
Cheers!
Chaz
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I'm sure it isn't so, but this looks like there are only 31 police cars watching the entire city. I guess some are writing tickets which may not be listed as an "active call." I would guess traffic accidents would be an active call or a call holding - so where are the rest of the cars and what were they doing?
You are assuming each call only takes one officer/car/person, which is rarely so. For instance, the shooting over the weekend near 12th and Erie, I'm sure, took multiple officers, as they were seaching for both victims and suspects.
Some calls only take one officer, such as most wrecks, a report call, or something similar.
Each of the three shifts have what are called 'minimum manning levels'. I think you would be surprised how low that number actually is.
And we keep pouncing on officers wasting their time writing tickets. When more people are injured and we spend more money on property damage then all other crimes combined 10 fold, will we realize the police can't ignore people who violate traffic laws. Every single wreck was preceeded by someone violating a traffic law.
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
One that is still up ,as far as I can tell, are the "Excecutive Order Contracts" that the previous fellow put in play..
Perhaps this is just a matter of following cancellation procedures for the contracts..
There is mucho green dinero$$ in those contracts.....
[;)]
There's nothing nefarious about the Mayor administering contracts (in the context of the budget and Council appropriations). It's his/her Charter responsibility . . . .
quote:
Artile III
SECTION 1.4 EXECUTIVE AND ADMINISTRATIVE POWERS AND DUTIES. The Mayor shall be the chief executive and administrative officer of the city and shall:
D. Expend as provided by law the funds of the city in accord with the adopted operating and capital budgets of the city;
H. Establish standards of administration and coordinate all administrative services;
J. Administer and enforce the terms and conditions of all contracts;
K. Collect, deposit, invest, and maintain accounts of all revenues, fines, licenses, fees, and funds of the city;
L. Establish and supervise a system of general and cost accounting and maintain inventories of the property of the city.
M. Purchase equipment, materials, supplies, and services and construct, operate, maintain, and repair public improvements, buildings, and facilities;
N. Establish, construct, and maintain streets, sidewalks, alleys, public ways, waterworks, sanitary sewers, sewage disposal systems, storm sewers, storm water drainage systems, waterports, airports, solid waste management systems, transportation systems, and other public improvements and facilities;
Stay Tuned...
While I may have implied that all Exec. Orders are shady.... You are correct.. They are not..
But some are so shady they are not even grey....
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010 Usually the records division or dispatch will make the phone call if the phone number is available.
I can see where it is more expedient to utter "Storey one time" into a mic than to read seven digits from the report in his hand, but I can also see where that comes across as calloused and uncaring.
Some of the biggest perceptions grow from some of the smallest things.
quote:
Originally posted by patric
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010 Usually the records division or dispatch will make the phone call if the phone number is available.
I can see where it is more expedient to utter "Storey one time" into a mic than to read seven digits from the report in his hand, but I can also see where that comes across as calloused and uncaring.
Some of the biggest perceptions grow from some of the smallest things.
Exactly!!! And why is everyone whipping this guy for complaining about the service he received from a public entity (TPD)? He has every right to complain. Why did the mod delete the officers name? It should be a matter of public record and the officer is a public servant and receiving taxpayer dollars for his work.
Thank you Patric for understanding my point.
It is not that I don't appreciate what the Police do. It's that I don't appreciate what they don't do. The norm should be to protect the victim.
Although I am still not happy with Storey...I have to tone down my complaint. It appears they charge higher than industry standard but not a whole lot more. Here is the results of my independent survey of wrecker companies around town.
I asked only about the circumstances of my scooter since that is what I have as a reference from Storey.
Allied - $50 hookup
$15/day storage
2 day storage for a vehicle picked up at 10AM when it is brought in at 11:30pm the previous night. (10.5 hours actual time)
NO after hours charge
$3/mile + 8% fuel charge
Total $96.12
Central - $50 hookup
$15/day storage
1 day storage for 10.5 hours
NO after hours charge
NO mileage
Total $65.00
D&D - $45 hookup
$15/day storage
2 day storage for 10.5 hours
NO after hours charge
$15 Saturday pickup charge
NO mileage
Total $90.00
Aberton - $65 hookup
$25/day indoor or $15/day outdoor
2 day storage for 10.5 hours
$15 after hours charge
$3/mile + 7.56% fuel surcharge
$25 rollback (because it is a motorcycle)
Total - $176.40 - $156.00
Storey - $65 hookup
$15/day storage
2 day storage for 10.5 hours
$3/ mile
$5.92 actual fuel surcharge
$15 after hour fee
Total(including tax) - $127.48
So surveying 5 companies the price ranged from
a low of $65 to a high of $176
This may seem like pennies to you...but with little to no income while I am school...this represents 2 weeks of food for my kids.
quote:
Originally posted by dwmorris
Thank you Patric for understanding my point.
It is not that I don't appreciate what the Police do. It's that I don't appreciate what they don't do. The norm should be to protect the victim.
This is a fair point. If dw was a mere phone call away, then it seems awfully callous and bureaucratic not to give him a ring. Considering all of the gut-wrenching things that the police have to deal with on a daily basis, its not surprising that empathy is in short supply for something like this. Still, a little less red tape and a little more "Andy Griffith" will carry a lot of weight with the people that pay you.
quote:
Originally posted by ChazInTulsa
The question still stands - how many cars are on at the time specified earlier and where were they and what were they doing.
I'm not beating up anyone for writing tickets or anything else. I am simply trying to understand the manpower utilized and how and what it takes to improve that.
If each call averaged 2 cars thats 62 cars - is that all?
Is the requirement more?
Do we as citizens need to pony up more sales tax or whatever to fund more police protection?
Do we need some type of rapid deployment of new officers?
Do we need to face the fact that attention to crime prevention and its costs need to be addressed?
These are the type things I'm interested in - not as suggested as "pouncing" on anyone. If I am "pouncing" on anything it is pouncing on the problem and searching for a solution.
Cheers!
Chaz
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I'm sure it isn't so, but this looks like there are only 31 police cars watching the entire city. I guess some are writing tickets which may not be listed as an "active call." I would guess traffic accidents would be an active call or a call holding - so where are the rest of the cars and what were they doing?
You are assuming each call only takes one officer/car/person, which is rarely so. For instance, the shooting over the weekend near 12th and Erie, I'm sure, took multiple officers, as they were seaching for both victims and suspects.
Some calls only take one officer, such as most wrecks, a report call, or something similar.
Each of the three shifts have what are called 'minimum manning levels'. I think you would be surprised how low that number actually is.
And we keep pouncing on officers wasting their time writing tickets. When more people are injured and we spend more money on property damage then all other crimes combined 10 fold, will we realize the police can't ignore people who violate traffic laws. Every single wreck was preceeded by someone violating a traffic law.
Here is the break down of shifts and manpower at uniform divisions.
There are three shifts at the uniform divisions. They are all ten hour shifts. 1st shift is 9:30pm - 7:30am, 2nd shift 7:30am -5:30pm, 3rd shift 5:00pm - 2:00am. These time are general. Each subdivision (UDE, UDSW, UDN) all change shifts at different times so that not everyone is changing at the same time. There is also a 1 hour to 30 minute overlap with each shift.
The manning level for each shift is different for different days of the week. There is usually more officers working Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Usually the minimum manning level is between 11 and 13 officers per shift. That means that their has to be 11-13 officers working at the subdivision for that shift. If there is not (someone is sick, family sick, someone took comp. time off or someone has an adjusted day off) then the division has to hire someone for an overtime shift. There also has to be at least two supervisors working at the division. Supervisors do not take calls but will respond to scenes when needed.
As an example, lets pick the UDSW division on a Friday night. UDSW covers the following area, roughly from 11th street to the southern City limits of Tulsa, from the western city limits to S. Sheridan Rd.
So working at UDSW on a Friday there would be:
1st Shift 13 officers
2nd Shift 13 officers
3rd Shift 13 officers
Now between 9:30pm and 2:30am 1st shift and 3rd shift overlap so you would have at minimum 26 officers for the division. However, after 2:30am you are back down to 13 officers. So lets say a shooting happens at 3:30am. It's a small shooting with one victim. You need 5 officers to work the scene. You have two on perimeter to hold the scene integrity until detectives arrive, 2 officers to gather the intial witness information, and 1 officer to control the scene and call the appropriate detectives, give suspect info over the radio ect. That only leaves 8 officers to answer calls in the entire south Tulsa area. Now lets say three domestic violence calls come in. That takes six officers to handle. Because two officers respond to domestic violence calls. That now leave just two officers. Now the two officers either see a drunk driver or get a burglary call or an auto theft in progress call. Now all uniformed officers are tied up and no one is out patroling for criminals or responding to other calls. Now all the report calls are stacking up plus other violent crime calls. Sometimes officers from other areas of town (UDE, UDN) will be called to respond to calls in another area of town (in this case UDSW) but they are very far off and have their own calls to deal with.
Now for the really bad news, uniform divisions usually operate at minimum manning levels on the weekends.
I hoped this helped explain the situation about why officers are so busy.
04/24/06 12:14 pm
UDSW 11 active calls, 11 calls holding
UDE 11 active calls, 3 calls holding
UDN 8 active calls, 3 calls holding
Thanks MH2010 - very helpful information.
What an eye opener.
We need a lot more officers than we are going to get with stepped up academies.
We need a real solution to increase patrols, IMO.
Thanks again.
Cheers!
One more question MH2010:
I took one division times 13 officers X 3 shifts and get 39 officers. Then I added 13 officers to handle days off and vacations (an assumption) and I get 52 officers for patrol.
Then I take 52 times the three divisions and I get 156 officers for patrol.
Someone said we have about 800 sworn officers.
Is that a good number and how does the rest of the numbers play out? In other words is the difference between the 156 and the number of sworn officers made up of supervisory personnel?
Thanks,
Chaz
Each division has approx. 115 beat officers. Now you can divide the 115 beat officers into three shifts. That would give you roughly 38 officers per shift. There are four squads for each shift.So 38 beat officers divided by four is about 9 officers per squad. Each squad has two supervisors. There is also a captain for each shift.
Now not all 9 officers are in each squad are all the time. Each of the 38 beat officers per shift have different groups of days off. Usually the days off go, 1. Friday, Saturday, Sunday 2. Saturday, Sunday, Monday, 3. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday 4. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday 5. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday 6. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday 7. Thursday, Friday, Saturday. The days off are chosen by seniority.
quote:
Originally posted by patric
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010 Usually the records division or dispatch will make the phone call if the phone number is available.
I can see where it is more expedient to utter "Storey one time" into a mic than to read seven digits from the report in his hand, but I can also see where that comes across as calloused and uncaring.
Some of the biggest perceptions grow from some of the smallest things.
quote:
I can see where it is more expedient to utter "Storey one time" into a mic than to read seven digits from the report in his hand, but I can also see where that comes across as calloused and uncaring.
Some of the biggest perceptions grow from some of the smallest things.
I would find it pretty improbable that the report was in his hand. The report most likely was making its way through the maze, after being entered into the computer to show up as stolen. Very possibly that report was not available to the officer, or anyone in records.
quote:
sauerkraut - guess you noticed whether seat belts were in use as well? Cops do, along with descriptions of suspect vehicles used in crimes, etc. etc. In the event someone is threatening you or the family, or breaking in your home or car, consider calling the fire department?
Wait a minute.. some of my best friends are firefighters. Among many a strict unwritten code is written - As long as cops don't try to put out fires, Firefighters won't write tickets! [:)]
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the police department. I'm sure there is a valid reason why the officer towed the scooter.
As far as investigating the crime itself, I'm sorry but it is simply a manpower and budget issue. We have to rate crime in the level of severity and then respond to it in that same way.
Once we arrive at the scene, we have very little time to spend on each call because there are numerous others holding. This limits how much we can do at the scene (fingerprinting, interviewing, searching for suspects, vehicles ect.)
We usually don't fingerprint stolen scooters but lets just say that it was done and they found a complete fingerprint. The fingerprint would be given to our police lab (where they examine fingerprints). The police lab is just as understaffed and overworked. Since the crime is not a violent one, the fingerprint would be placed at the bottom of the priority list (all violent crime comes first and then the list is ranked other crime types and then by date. This would mean your crime would be low on the priority list. That means it could be over a year before the lab personnel could examine the print.
Right now this is the call load on a Sunday.
Sunday 04/23/06 7:51pm
UDE 9 active calls, 1 call holding
UDSW 10 active calls, 13 calls holding
UDN 12 active calls, 4 calls holding.
If you want to improve this, you can contact your city councilor and the mayor's office. Please tell them to increase the police budget during the next fiscal year. We simply need more officers and more resources.
It actually sounds like TPD does a pretty good job with what they have. When you figure in officers in court, vacation, light duty due to injuries, school, warrant service, plainclothes, ancilliary functions (Like the wrecker liason officer) training, public outreach, military service, sick leave, regular days off, on top of minimum staffing levels, its a wonder they get anything done.
I know in Nashville TN, they have Teleserve, which is made up of officers on light duty. They take all complaints of non physical threatening theft, stealing, vandalisim, etc, up to 2500.00 (A few years ago, it may be more now) I don't know if TPD has this, but I certainly hope not....
I took one division times 13 officers X 3 shifts and get 39 officers. Then I added 13 officers to handle days off and vacations (an assumption) and I get 52 officers for patrol.
It takes five officers to cover one beat 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Each of the three patrol divisions is broken down into four squads, with each squad having five beats. You can find TPD's beat map here:
http://www.radioreference.com/data/files/a/1327/TulsaPDMap1.pdf
So that equals 60 beats city wide, or 20 beats for each patrol division. When MH2010 talks about minimum manning being 12 officers, do you see how many beats go unfilled each and every day.
you seem like a whiner. how is the fact that you have three kids relevant to the story? because you don't have the $$ to feed them? should you be treated differently by the police for that fact? by the internet? you certainly have lots of time to waste the time of all those wrecker companies you called when you didn't intend to use their services, you're wasting time on the internet, perhaps a second job could fill some of that time? with three kids why do you even have a scooter? why were you unable to secure that scooter from theft at your own house when you knew its loss (or even the towing fees for its recovery so it wouldn't be lost) can cause finacial upset?
If my financial situation gets to where I'm worried whether my kids will eat, I'm going to be making some choices about whether owning a computer or scooter or paying for internet access is really necessary.
Originally posted by Wilbur..
But these contracts still go out for bid, just like with any other item, unless the requesting body can show a cause for a 'sole source', which means only one person/vendor can supply the requested item.
Wilbur I would like you to hold on to this thought that all "Executive Order" contracts are sent out for bids...
I love that... Sent out for bids......
You listening "skeet"
[8D]
quote:
Originally posted by Erickm
you seem like a whiner. how is the fact that you have three kids relevant to the story? because you don't have the $$ to feed them? should you be treated differently by the police for that fact? by the internet? you certainly have lots of time to waste the time of all those wrecker companies you called when you didn't intend to use their services, you're wasting time on the internet, perhaps a second job could fill some of that time? with three kids why do you even have a scooter? why were you unable to secure that scooter from theft at your own house when you knew its loss (or even the towing fees for its recovery so it wouldn't be lost) can cause finacial upset?
If my financial situation gets to where I'm worried whether my kids will eat, I'm going to be making some choices about whether owning a computer or scooter or paying for internet access is really necessary.
You have no right to make assumptions about how I take care of my kids. You have no idea what I do to make sure my kids have the best education, a roof over their head, food in their stomachs, and health care. Everything I do IS for my kids.
Secondly, I want the police to treat EVERYONE with more respect and courtesy. You are completely missing the point.
Why do I need a scooter? Insurance is $50 a year and gas mileage is 100mpg. It gets the job done.
That is all the questions I wish to answer of your dumb response. I do have other things to do.
I still haven't heard an answer on what you found out . . . did you talk to the liason officer about Storey lowering their fee? Did you talk to the officer's supervisor or ask that the officer contact you to see if an attempt was made to call you. I would agree that you have reason to be upset if your number was in the system and no attempt was made to call you, but you made some rude blanket comments not knowing what the entire story was, all you know is your scooter was towed. Several posts on here gave you an avenue to have your situation retified, and I'm just wondering if you followed up with any of them.
I am still confused on what happened. We had left a message for the officer to call us but she still hasn't.
The liason officer couldn't get a hold of her either. He told me the report said something about "the owner" seeing his scooter being driven and that is why they responded. Apparently there were 2 scooters. The first owner saw the perp driving his and in the process they found mine. The first owner was given the opportunity to take his back. I was not. That is the story I deduced from what limited information was given to me.
The liason officer made the request to Storey to refund my towing fees. But he said it would be at their discrection. He told me if I didn't hear anything in 2 or 3 weeks then call Storey.
The liason officer made the request to Storey to refund my towing fees. But he said it would be at their discrection.
I'm confident, if the liaison officer recommend they refund the fee, you will be receiving a check in the mail soon.
quote:
Originally posted by Erickm
you seem like a whiner. how is the fact that you have three kids relevant to the story? because you don't have the $$ to feed them? should you be treated differently by the police for that fact? by the internet? you certainly have lots of time to waste the time of all those wrecker companies you called when you didn't intend to use their services, you're wasting time on the internet, perhaps a second job could fill some of that time? with three kids why do you even have a scooter? why were you unable to secure that scooter from theft at your own house when you knew its loss (or even the towing fees for its recovery so it wouldn't be lost) can cause finacial upset?
If my financial situation gets to where I'm worried whether my kids will eat, I'm going to be making some choices about whether owning a computer or scooter or paying for internet access is really necessary.
[V][V][V]What??? Did you actually think about this before you wrote it?
First let me start off by saying...
I am very, very sorry that your scooter was stolen, And your mothers death is unfortunate, an my condolences.
Now... My sister is a detective with TPD. Before this she was a patrol officer. I have done many ride-a-longs with her and let me say that is a very eye-opening experience. Peoples perceptions of the police force would be greatly changed if they could see first hand the BS that they have to deal with on a daily basis. This isn't CSI. This isn't COPS. This is real life and all the calls they get between something actually serious is just stupid.
The fact of the matter is that people do not take personal responsibility for thier lives any more. They expect for institutions like the Police to solve thier problems when in fact, they could have been avoided whith a little forethought.
You state that Tulsa is a crime ridden city, thus leaving me to beleave that you know that anything can happen at any time to anyone.
It is my opinion that you should have known better than to leave your scooter sitting outside where it was accessable to the rampant criminal element. Use your garage. That way the police don't have to spend their time looking for a scooter and taking down a report (which they have to rewrite at the end of their shift to be turned in) That process alone can take up to 2 hours just in paper work, and people actually ask why there neve seems to be an officer around when you need them.
As for your mother... I don't for one minute believe that the police just blew you off. You should have been at her home and told them what was going on after dialing 911. Your description of events leads one to believe that you called the main line thus getting other numbers to call. This doesn't happen with a 911 call. You should have then told the officers that she was in danger of hurting herself and needed her to be transported to a hospital for evaluation. They could have then admitted her to the phsyc. unit and taken care of her.
I know this because I have been there myself.
Personal responsibility, this includes your responsibility to your self, your belongings and your family. Welcome to the real world, it's a giant leap from a liberal institution called college, and it isn't all about others taking care of you. Only the strong survive, and with this early wisdom you have obtained by your experienances, you should be able to divert many possible misshaps in the future.
Now pick up the phone and request a ride-a-long. It will give you a new appriciation of the men and women that DO serve and protect you. Maybe, you should do something for them.
Talk about resurrecting an old thread. [:)]
quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn
First let me start off by saying...
I am very, very sorry that your scooter was stolen, And your mothers death is unfortunate, an my condolences.
Now... My sister is a detective with TPD. Before this she was a patrol officer. I have done many ride-a-longs with her and let me say that is a very eye-opening experience. Peoples perceptions of the police force would be greatly changed if they could see first hand the BS that they have to deal with on a daily basis. This isn't CSI. This isn't COPS. This is real life and all the calls they get between something actually serious is just stupid.
The fact of the matter is that people do not take personal responsibility for thier lives any more. They expect for institutions like the Police to solve thier problems when in fact, they could have been avoided whith a little forethought.
You state that Tulsa is a crime ridden city, thus leaving me to beleave that you know that anything can happen at any time to anyone.
It is my opinion that you should have known better than to leave your scooter sitting outside where it was accessable to the rampant criminal element. Use your garage. That way the police don't have to spend their time looking for a scooter and taking down a report (which they have to rewrite at the end of their shift to be turned in) That process alone can take up to 2 hours just in paper work, and people actually ask why there neve seems to be an officer around when you need them.
As for your mother... I don't for one minute believe that the police just blew you off. You should have been at her home and told them what was going on after dialing 911. Your description of events leads one to believe that you called the main line thus getting other numbers to call. This doesn't happen with a 911 call. You should have then told the officers that she was in danger of hurting herself and needed her to be transported to a hospital for evaluation. They could have then admitted her to the phsyc. unit and taken care of her.
I know this because I have been there myself.
Personal responsibility, this includes your responsibility to your self, your belongings and your family. Welcome to the real world, it's a giant leap from a liberal institution called college, and it isn't all about others taking care of you. Only the strong survive, and with this early wisdom you have obtained by your experienances, you should be able to divert many possible misshaps in the future.
Now pick up the phone and request a ride-a-long. It will give you a new appriciation of the men and women that DO serve and protect you. Maybe, you should do something for them.
I was agreeing with you until you made the assumption that he, faced with a terrifying situation involving a suicidal family member, automatically knows proper procedure to be an efficient user of emergency services. Someone in that situation is obviously distressed and needs whatever helping hand is available.
I know what you are talking about with stupid calls draining the resources (Like a lady calling 911 because she didn't get her order right at Burger King) - but telling him he did something wrong in his situation is just cold.