The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Anyone know what's going on?
fence & orange barrels going up around the "former Billies Pi" building

Earthquake damage?

D'oh.
Scratch that.

It appears that the new fountain (drunk magnet) is in the works.

Good, that wooden structure is an eye sore.

FIFY

The money is available?  I was told it wasn't.

Still going to be a fountain or is it going to be pavement?

Fountain, the kind with submerged jets under a solid surface.

Not by me...

I wish they would hurry. I need to wash the salt off the undercarriage of my car.

Oh, so it’s a big jacuzzi?

Just waiting on drunken Owasso Cheerleaders.

I never suspected an ulterior motive on the design until now.

Great.  I was bummed we were going to have that eyesore there for a long time.

The fountain is currently on.
It really ties the intersection together.

I think it is a big bidet.

I shall call the area "Bidet Square" from now on.

Now instead of drunk drivers hitting a concert fountain, they can drive their pickups OVER the water jets but can't see what's on the other side.  Safer.

Also, no way bums, kids, or drunks decide to play in the street.

Fountain is gone within 2 years.

some idiot is crashing into a house or building on a weekly basis around here.
would this have been safer if he could have seen what was on the other side?
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/24055855_BG1.jpg)

Noticed the other day that someone had run over one of the new blue light poles in front of the Warehouse Market.  Then someone else ran over one of the bollards on Peoria.  What is it with people in this town?

Two light poles and a tree actually.

I was taking selfies to send to my girlfriends. My bad.

I am sure that has nothing to do with your feelings towards the namesake.

I don't know why you would say that.

I bear no ill feelings to anyone named Bartlett. The Mayor has been very kind to me and supportive of my employer. I have never spoke poorly of him on this forum.

Anybody have a more updated picture?

(http://farm1.staticflickr.com/22/29744914_7be239cfd5_o.jpg)

Current update.   the animated LED ribbon around the base of the fountain is doing its blinkenlight thing now.
Completely detracts from any middle of the street fountain aesthetic.
It's some sort of fountain/undercarriage-wash/orange-barrel hybrid thing.

(http://royalfountains.com/images/lights/led/led-lights-on-circular-fountain.png)

sorry.  more like
(http://tti.tamu.edu/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/workzone1-300x195.jpg)

the LEDs aren't illuminating the water, they're a around the base on the outside.

not so good photo...  the fountain isn't going, but the lights are
the lights kind of "swoosh" around to the right.

(http://i.imgur.com/2ZWPHiU.jpg)

(http://www.igorstshirts.com/blog/conceptships/close_encounters.jpg)

according to http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/water-flowing-from-bartlett-square-fountain-in-downtown-tulsa-again/article_4f358e94-a0c3-11e3-a42a-0017a43b2370.html
the fountain will have some yet-to-be-installed light-up-the-water lights

There were traffic barricades up around the fountain on Saturday. Did someone hit it already?

They are already installed. I saw them on previously.

Read previous page

I re-read the entire thread and the TW article and I still can't figure out why the fountain was "complete" last week and then orange barrels went up this weekend.

Inquiring minds want to know.
Barrels have been there for at least a week.

My guess is they're waiting for an official dedication or some such.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/repairs-complete-tulsa-fountain-to-light-up-downtown-soon/article_c656a2b3-0f52-5a30-9e66-cb634ccc48fa.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/repairs-complete-tulsa-fountain-to-light-up-downtown-soon/article_c656a2b3-0f52-5a30-9e66-cb634ccc48fa.html)

Topical article.

I guess they learned their lesson from the bridge blunder

Found it in the "Other Discussion" section here, in the Bartlett Fountain thread.

What's historical about this project? Was this a legal use of Vision 2025 funds dedicated to a specific purpose?

Yes it is a valid expenditure; it comes from the Downtown and Neighborhood fund (there is no historic marker fund in Vision 2025 that is an internal City project designation).

What happened to the historical markers on the centennial walk?

Surge protector was installed today.
woo hoo

Did they test it with an Owasso cheerleader?

Surge protector.  Not purge protector.

Sorry, my bad.   ;)

Barrels are gone.
Fountain is doing its thing.

Baiting the Owassans?

What's the +/- on how long before someone turns this into a car was?

Seems like there was a historic marker fund in Vision2025:

Evidentially priorities changed as the fountain restoration project was approved by the Council and Mayor utilizing funds from the "Downtown and Neighborhoods" fund.  FYI, These project funds were allocated to all of the municipalities in Tulsa County (by population at the time) for the implementation of locally determined projects which met the general requirements as this did.

The City may have or had such an internal fund that they were funding/tracking with Vision dollars, don't know and I don't have access to their system to look.   I do know that well prior to the fountain project I was aware they were short of funding to fully implement the tablets portion of the propopsed Centennial walk project.  

Again; Within the Vision 2025 system and voter authorized projects no such project or fund exists as previously stated.

Clear as fountain water?

Kirby

 One street down,,, are they ever going to be able to add the amphitheater and stuff to the park at 6th and Main?  The park as is seems lacking and unfinished.   

The nicotine dependent seem to like it.

That wasn't Vision2025, and it's finished as is.

  From what I gather it "H A Chapman Centennial Green" was about half funded through the Vision2025 with the rest coming from donors. It was intended to be the starting point for the Centennial Walk.  There was a covered amphitheater in the original plans and even a food vendor type area with seating behind it.  Did the donors not come through with the money to finish everything, or was it Vision2025?  I will hunt for the rendering of the completed park I think I have somewhere.
 
Here is a PDF of the amphitheater with the "possible future" Kiosk/restroom space behind.
http://www.landlegacy.net/pdf/ParkConPlan.pdf

Here is a PDF of the Kiosk/restrooms part behind the amphitheater.
http://www.landlegacy.net/pdf/ParkKioskCon.pdf


http://www.gtrnews.com/greater-tulsa-reporter/3285/ActionContinuesDowntownwithDedication

"The park features an oval green lawn, a Red Oak Centennial Tree, and brick-like concrete pavers surrounding the grassy area. The park is named “H.A. Chapman Centennial Green,” and the lawn is named the “Walton Family Lawn.” H.A. Chapman and the Walton Family assisted Land Legacy in acquisition of the property and pledged funds toward its development.

A fountain was built at one end of the park, and a small amphitheater was built at the other end. Features to be added soon include a fountain sculpture and an amphitheater wall. Tulsa architect and artist Shane Fernandez spoke at the dedication and unveiled a model of a sculpture to be placed atop the park’s fountain. The sculpture, to be constructed of steel and glass, is an artistic representation of an oil derrick, paying tribute to Tulsa’s “oil capital” history.

A Vision 2025 project celebrating Oklahoma’s Centennial, the H.A. Chapman Centennial Green has opened just in time for Tulsa Parks’ 100th year in 2009. Events already scheduled at the park in April include the March of Dimes’ “March for Babies” and the Tulsa Day Center for the Homeless’ “Lyrics on the Lawn.” In May, it will be the site for the Mayfest KidZone.

Vision 2025 funding for the park included $378,000 for design, $3.8 million for construction, and $1.2 million for land purchased from Land Legacy. Land Legacy bought the property for $2.4 million and sold it to the City of Tulsa for half price."

I stand corrected, but I do know for sure it is done as is. The Centennial walk information is on the back of the amphitheater.

There were multiple donors and a lot of people wanting different things. I talked to someone involved in the design about a year ago and he told me the hydro wall, cafe and restrooms were nixed a long time ago.

With the food truck trend in full swing it seems unnecessary to have permanent food kiosks in parks.  They are always there for events and sometime the food trucks themselves are the event.  A covered stage might be nice but isn't entirely necessary.  They've had music acts play there with some success.  As more restaurants and retail move into that area maybe the business owners' association can take it upon themselves to fund improvements that they think will be helpful for drawing bigger crowds.

There was Vision funds associated with the project (same source as described above).  The project came in dramatically over budget and was greatly reduced in scope.  As I recall the hope of adding some of the amenities back in via donations or other funds.

Ban the food trucks and collect some property taxes.

 
 ::)

Here it comes....

We make our living off of sales taxes. That's why Dewey is going psycho on the city budget.

I keep hearing the mayor mention internet sales as if that is what is bringing down the cities tax collections and not something else.  Sounded logical the first couple times I heard it but then started wondering if other cities are still cutting services and such and having lower tax revenues.  Just started looking around at other cities budgets and noticed that Denvers Mayors budget report for 2014 is increasing parks and after school arts programs, expanding neighborhood pool open times, hiring more police, adding new transit stations "to help revitalize more areas of the city", etc.  Perhaps they don't have Amazon there or perhaps rely on other forms of taxes?  Anywhoo seems that many other cities are moving right along and touting their programs as reasons why while here we are cutting and blaming the internet.  

They reported a 1% increase in sales tax revenue year over year.

Well surely that's enough and all that was expected.  So many folk on here say that slow growth is best.  No need to try and get our city up to having something crazy like say 3%-4% growth.

Listen to this craziness….(DENVER) Denver City Council President Mary Beth Susman today announced the City Council’s key 2015 budget priorities for the City. “The Council has called for transit and multi-modal transportation investments as its top priority this year,” said Susman. She noted that Council reiterated its commitment to bike and pedestrian safety goals from last year, but broadened the focus to include transit connections, accessible sidewalk ramps,

Now that's a city that is doomed.

Like it or not, online commerce is here to stay.  That affects local brick and mortar businesses as well as sales tax collections.  There is also the stated problem of suburbs cannibalizing sales tax collections with their shopping developments that did not exist 10 years ago.

The state is being completely ignorant in trying to enforce a “use tax” and expecting people are going to comply and pay any additional sales tax due on those trinkets they bought in Branson or in a duty-free shop at LAX.  E-commerce is hardly new.  You’d think by now the state would have re-jiggered the tax code to a more income or property tax-based rather than consumption-based since it’s obvious the feds are never going to buy into a universal consumption tax and distribute it accordingly by state.

Colorado Sales/Use Tax info:
http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1251958948089&ssbinary=true

Oklahoma Sales Tax:
http://www.tax.ok.gov/publicat/copos/copo2Q14.pdf

So which Jimmy Johns do you own/manage?  Is it just the downtown one?

I'm surprised one of the private arts organizations or philanthropies hasn't stepped in, and maybe they will.  I agree though that it's unfortunate that it has to come to that, and I think City Hall is grossly mismanaged.  In Denver's case it is good they are focusing on inner city mass transit as they have instead built a great commuter network while neglecting the needs of the inner city as traffic and congestion has increased. 

Back to 5th & Main, I like this fountain better than the one before especially at night.  This to me is the center of downtown and while busy during the day I wish there were more options open at night.

Good for you. That’s the modern American way. Minimum wage paying large national chain asking for government regulation to kill small independent local competitors.


Next you should ask for tax kickbacks for being a “job creator”.

His stand on food trucks is one of the main reasons I"ll NEVER solicit business there.

1% is better than 0. However, the budget was based on 3% iirc. Therefore, 1% sucks.

Who knows what's wrong with Tulsa. ::) Other cities have cannibalizing suburbs. We seem to be stuck with looking for sugar daddies for our lifestyle improvements, arts and humanities.

And they have bailed out the city numerous times.  I shudder to think about what this city would look like without GKFF, or the Helmerichs, or Schustermans, etc. 

cannon_fodder was telling me the other night over dinner that some drivers seem to think the fountain is a belly-wash for their car.

That's exactly why I asked which ones he works for.  Probably won't get an answer, though.

Other cities with cannibalizing suburbs have stopped trying to compete with the suburbs at being suburban and have embraced URBAN environments.  Thus differentiating themselves from the suburbs and attracting different kinds of business, development, and people.  Not only is it a more economical use of land and tax base - but Tulsa will NEVER compete with Owasso for cheap land, generic zoning, and chains.

But why should we want to?

That is not the Dewey ideology.

Well said.

Great post.

The 5th and Main fountain turned out to be no problem, and actually quite a hit, during Mayfest. By Sunday, kids were coming down in their swimsuits.