I just thought with the two very recent pit bull terrier attacks on the two women would warrant an new discussion on the subject.
Here's a recent TW story.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20130324_11_A1_CUTLIN656058
Personally, no breed of animal is THAT important if it jeopardizes the safety and lives of people. In order to preempt the inevitable slippery slope or straw man, same goes for other breeds of dog with that reputation.
Quote from: guido911 on March 29, 2013, 10:50:56 PM
Personally, no breed of animal is THAT important if it jeopardizes the safety and lives of people. In order to preempt the inevitable slippery slope or straw man, same goes for other breeds of dog with that reputation.
Once upon a time, these were considered a dangerous breed:
(http://cutedogpix.com/wp-content/uploads/main/2013_03/pootiehb5.jpg)
They can be gentle, or rip you to shreds, depending on their human influences.
Forum Friends,
Pitbulls, and their type, are noble, intelligent, powerful and proud animals. They generally have more teeth, fewer tatoos, and are more intelligent than their owners. And less incestuous.
Regards,
Mike
I heard somewhere that the OK legislature will soon allow us to eat pit bulls.
Quote from: Ed W on March 30, 2013, 09:16:29 AM
I heard somewhere that the OK legislature will soon allow us to eat pit bulls.
Only if somewhere in the OK legislature exists a family of a member who has a pit bull slaughter house.
Quote from: patric on March 30, 2013, 12:05:49 AM
Once upon a time, these were considered a dangerous breed:
(http://cutedogpix.com/wp-content/uploads/main/2013_03/pootiehb5.jpg)
They can be gentle, or rip you to shreds, depending on their human influences.
I wish I had a copy of a picture from dog training school from the 1960s. It was a picture of one the training instructor's young (maybe 2 yrs old) daughter biting the leg of the family Doberman, also a breed of dog with a very bad reputation at that time. The dog looked totally uninterested. I knew that particular dog. She was very nice.
Quote from: guido911 on March 29, 2013, 10:50:56 PM
I just thought with the two very recent pit bull terrier attacks on the two women would warrant an new discussion on the subject.
Personally, no breed of animal is THAT important if it jeopardizes the safety and lives of people. In order to preempt the inevitable slippery slope or straw man, same goes for other breeds of dog with that reputation.
I think the proper answer is to execute irresponsible owners and breeders that selectively breed dogs (of any breed) to accentuate viciousness. OK, maybe that's a bit extreme but that is where the problem really is.
My mother has been actively involved in obedience training of dogs since the early 1960s. I tagged along through my Jr/High School years. The beginners courses had all kinds of dogs, including a lot of mixed breeds. The more advanced levels were primarily show dogs. Still a lot of breeds of dogs though since any AKC or UKC recognized breed of dog can be shown in obedience trials sanctioned by those organizations. The common thread was that these owners wanted well behaved dogs. They did not buy, breed or train dogs to be vicious.
AKC = American Kennel Club
UKC = United Kennel Club
Quote from: Ed W on March 30, 2013, 09:16:29 AM
I heard somewhere that the OK legislature will soon allow us to eat pit bulls.
Mmm. Hopefully kittens are next.
(http://www.endlesssimmer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/president-bush-eats-kitten-1259.jpg)
This is one of my favorite photoshops,.
What bothers me about this debate is that no one ever addresses why people get pit bulls. It is clearly their reputation as guard dogs or protectors because they are god awful UGLY dogs. Why would anyone want one of those if not for the fact that they are glorified in hiphop music.
Quote from: tulsascoot on April 08, 2013, 07:48:11 PM
What bothers me about this debate is that no one ever addresses why people get pit bulls. It is clearly their reputation as guard dogs or protectors because they are god awful UGLY dogs. Why would anyone want one of those if not for the fact that they are glorified in hiphop music.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I guess you don't know that.
Quote from: tulsascoot on April 08, 2013, 07:48:11 PM
What bothers me about this debate is that no one ever addresses why people get pit bulls. It is clearly their reputation as guard dogs or protectors because they are god awful UGLY dogs. Why would anyone want one of those if not for the fact that they are glorified in hiphop music.
I'm allergic to fur-bearing animals, so I cannot have dogs. But I see your point. There are SO MANY breeds of dogs out there, even some that resemble pitbulls. There has to be some sort of hangup.
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
Banning the breed will jot really help. Many breeds have the potential to cause harm. I agree some Pitts are bred for aggression. I agree that MOST pit bull owners want a pittbull because of that reputation (bold statement, but still...).
However, I know many perfectly good dog owners with really well behaved pitbulls. Dogs that are loving and loved. Why punish them?
Don't certain kinds of firearms have the same reputation and potential for harm if abused?
And if you are allergic to dander, a pitbull would be a good breed (it isn't really the hair most people are allergic to). Some lines have nearly no hair and therefore carry very little dander.
,
<- allergic to everything, have 2 large dogs. Lots of dog washing, vacuuming, and other measures (no dogs on furniture, no face touching, etc.).
Quote from: cannon_fodder on April 08, 2013, 09:30:44 PM
Banning the breed will jot really help. Many breeds have the potential to cause harm. I agree some Pitts are bred for aggression. I agree that MOST pit bull owners want a pittbull because of that reputation (bold statement, but still...).
However, I know many perfectly good dog owners with really well behaved pitbulls. Dogs that are loving and loved. Why punish them?
Don't certain kinds of firearms have the same reputation and potential for harm if abused?
And if you are allergic to dander, a pitbull would be a good breed (it isn't really the hair most people are allergic to). Some lines have nearly no hair and therefore carry very little dander.
,
<- allergic to everything, have 2 large dogs. Lots of dog washing, vacuuming, and other measures (no dogs on furniture, no face touching, etc.).
The dander is my problem, but what comes out of the animals and winds up on my lawn is another in my house problem. And I wouldn't call it punishment, just an easy preemptive strike of sorts. Just look at those pics of dogs that resemble a pitbulls. Are they THAT important?
Quote from: guido911 on April 09, 2013, 12:42:53 AM
The dander is my problem, but what comes out of the animals and winds up on my lawn is another in my house problem. And I wouldn't call it punishment, just an easy preemptive strike of sorts. Just look at those pics of dogs that resemble a pitbulls. Are they THAT important?
And the people that turn these dogs into the vicious animals they are will still want to turn dogs into that, and will just move on to another breed. How long until the only dogs that are left that are considered "safe" are chihuahuas?
Quote from: custosnox on April 09, 2013, 02:47:21 AM
How long until the only dogs that are left that are considered "safe" are chihuahuas?
Chihuahuas have teeth too. Little dogs can be scrappy too. It just takes more bites to inflict major damage on an adult. How about a small child? (Child as the bitten, not the biter.)
I have met some really nice pitbulls, but I have to share what I learned over and over and over again as a paramedic. There are just some things that you can't unsee.
I ran hundreds of calls for dog attacks over about 6 years. Almost all of these only involved two breeds of dog, and many involved children.
The most common dog for attacking children was the chow. They have very poor eyesight and are extremely territorial. The story was typically the same, a child walked up behind the dog and grabbed it or just made a loud noise. Chow attacks were bad, but probably about as bad as any other med/large dog attack. Most resulted in stitches and a very frightened child. They would snap, but release once they realized who they were biting.
The worst, and it's almost hard to type this, was the pitbull attacks (I can still see them all in my head). Pits are playful and intelligent, but they frequently have difficulty determining the line between play and fight, and sometimes a scream or smack, or just pulling on a toy can make them cross that line. Once they attack they are single minded, very strong, and nearly impossible to stop. They don't seem to feel pain or react to their own physical trauma.
I have literally seen dozens of small children, toddlers, and babies utterly mutilated or killed by pits. Faces torn off, arms and legs crushed or eaten, and necks chewed to the spinal column. Most of the time it started as play, or the child just tried to take a toy back. Most of these animals did not belong to trailer-dwelling idiots. Most were family pets, purchased because dad or mom thought pit bulls were cool.
You can pound their skulls in with a Maglight and they will not release a child's mutilated arm, or so much as flinch from the pain. Almost all of these incidents involved TPD or a sheriff shooting the dog. There is something physiologically different about that breed that was developed over many decades of breeding, and cannot be undone. When the adrenaline hits and they are in fight mode, their nervous system shuts down the pain response. Somewhere in my garage I stil have a dented Maglight.
Every case involved a parent(s) who swore up-and-down all the way to the hospital that the animal had "never acted like that before" or that Jake "was such a gentle dog." On one occasion in 1993, the precious family pet removed and ate the face of a 3 year old little girl. When we got to the very nice home, the dog was gone, and mother accompanied us to the hospital with her daughter who had now been condemned to a lifetime of pain and disfigurement. I asked if she wanted me to contact her husband, and she was silent. After a couple of hours in the ER, several TPD officers came in and demanded that the women tell them were the dog was. She remained silent. I asked one of the cops, and he told me that this is the second time this dog has attacked a child, and that the husband had fled with the animal because the couple didn't' want it to be euthanized. They won the parenting award that year.
No, it was not the dogs fault, and lots of people have happy healthy lives with pitbulls as pets. All breeds have predispositions and genetic differences that specialize them towards certain behaviors. If you have small children, please consider a lab, or a Vizela or any other breed than a pit bull or a chow. If you are single and want a great dog to guard your property, than a pit is an excellent choice. I have no freekin idea what a chow is good for!
Quote from: custosnox on April 09, 2013, 02:47:21 AM
And the people that turn these dogs into the vicious animals they are will still want to turn dogs into that, and will just move on to another breed. How long until the only dogs that are left that are considered "safe" are chihuahuas?
That is some slippery slope there. One breed restricted, ONE, will lead to canine apocalypse.
Quote from: guido911 on April 09, 2013, 02:45:45 PM
That is some slippery slope there. One breed restricted, ONE, will lead to canine apocalypse.
Like guns.
Quote from: guido911 on April 09, 2013, 03:05:45 PM
Now you are coming around..
I have guns and I have a pit.
I have an affinity for both and I haven't harmed anyone/anything* with either of them.
* - other than paper targets and chew toys -
Quote from: guido911 on April 09, 2013, 02:45:45 PM
That is some slippery slope there. One breed restricted, ONE, will lead to canine apocalypse.
No, it's not a slippery slope, it's pointing out that banning the breed is treating a symptom, not the problem. As long as the problem still exists, the symptom will return.
Pit Bull Guards Children in Road
QuoteChildren, in diapers, found alone in the street, in the middle of the night.
Just after midnight last Thursday, a 20-year old Tulsa man, driving south on Sheridan just before east 25th Place saw a dog standing in the middle of the road.
"I slam on my brakes, I come to a screaming halt ... there's an infant child in a diaper, not wearing any other clothes, just sitting in the middle of the road. So, I pull my car over into the oncoming lanes, to make sure no other cars would hit him," said Chase, he did not want to give out his last name.
The pit bull was circling the boy; Chase said he was guarding him. He said the dog snarled at him...
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Man-finds-toddler-in-middle-of-road-alone/lhZ6dloNaUa2FczNe1CN8g.cspx