Thought I'd go ahead and start this one.
An interesting analogy I heard this morning. . .
"It's going to be like the HAL 9000 debating Spicoli after a kegger."
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17xz976mitw1djpg/original.jpg)
They should be 2-0 after this one.
It will be interesting to see if they are going with the 5 trillion tax cut and 2 trillion more in defense spending or not. Also, if pre-existing conditions are or aren't covered as Romney has said.
What will really be interesting is if Ryan has learned arithmetic since the last iteration of his budget.
Quote from: CharlieSheen on October 08, 2012, 02:13:30 PM
It will be interesting to see if they are going with the 5 trillion tax cut and 2 trillion more in defense spending or not. Also, if pre-existing conditions are or aren't covered as Romney has said many times.
FIFY
I read somewhere that the Republicans are trying to lower expectations by saying that Joe Biden is a tough, well-prepared debater.
My head hurts.
Quote from: Ed W on October 08, 2012, 04:15:07 PM
I read somewhere that the Republicans are trying to lower expectations by saying that Joe Biden is a tough, well-prepared debater.
My head hurts.
Priebus made a comment like that. Sounds like he is trying to increase viewers.
Biden has nothing to lose by fighting at the debate. I bet the vice debate will be exciting and memorable.
Biden has been sequestered for 6 days for reprogramming.
(http://worldsstrongestlibrarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/A-Clockwork-Orange-1971.jpg)
Ryan's still out on the campaign trail.
I bet Axelrod hasen't pooped all week!
Quote from: Gaspar on October 09, 2012, 07:07:01 AM
Ryan's still out on the campaign trail.
Why would he need any preparation? He's been spewing the same lies for a couple of months now.
Quote from: nathanm on October 09, 2012, 03:21:02 PM
Why would he need any preparation? He's been spewing the same lies for a couple of months now.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kDG7b7Se7vg/UCqb5Yem8KI/AAAAAAAAS88/gWwDZ-N8zX8/s1600/Obama1.jpg)
Now that all other character attacks have failed, all that is left now is "You Lie!". I remember how well that went over a few years back.
I wish the Obama folks would just tell us how great a job they've been doing so we could have a national discussion.
Quote from: guido911 on October 09, 2012, 04:45:28 PM
Now that all other character attacks have failed, all that is left now is "You Lie!". I remember how well that went over a few years back.
It would be funny if it weren't true.
(https://twitpic.com/show/iphone/b0qxzz)
Paul Ryan's 3 favorite numbers are monthly regional GDP, Case Shiller index, and seasonally adjusted U-6. Joe Biden's favorite number is 3.
They've uncovered Joe Biden's Google search history:
(http://static.happyplace.com/assets/images/2012/10/507475706b886.jpeg)
As crazy as it seems. We all thought Romney was going to get handled by Obama. It would be nuts if Biden comes out like a "Boss" and handles Ryan.
And the way it has been going. It could happen. :-\
(http://static.caintv.com/8157da0672BidenDebatePrep.jpg)
That might be funny if Obama and Biden had been inconsistent, untrustworthy, and deceitful.
Let's play that game with the RMoney/Ryan google search history.
I will start: Treason.... Unreasonableness... Etch A Sketch... Misogyny....
(http://images.politico.com/global/2012/10/121011_paul_ryan_time_mag_328.jpg)
In good shape, has bad timing.
Quote from: Townsend on October 11, 2012, 12:50:10 PM
(http://images.politico.com/global/2012/10/121011_paul_ryan_time_mag_328.jpg)
In good shape, has bad timing.
Hard to imagine he was only 2 when Biden became a Senator. I'm sure he has a lot to learn from the old Washington establishment.
It just dawned on me today that for the first time in my life there is someone on a presidential ticket who is younger than I am. :o
First Question: Is there a Joe Biden debate drinking game?
Second Question: Will he be playing it?
Quote from: Gaspar on October 11, 2012, 03:37:28 PM
First Question: Is there a Joe Biden debate drinking game?
Second Question: Will he be playing it?
They should all be hooked up to something....
Eureka!
Simple. Classic. Drinking game: every time you realize Joe Biden is one heartbeat away from the presidency, drink.
Drink anytime you realize the crazies would take control if Ryan's pal won. That should scare the Hell out of anyone with reason and intellect.
We'd be snokkered.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 11, 2012, 02:09:24 PM
It just dawned on me today that for the first time in my life there is someone on a presidential ticket who is younger than I am. :o
Happens to me all the time. ;D
Quote from: Townsend on October 11, 2012, 04:33:28 PM
Drink anytime you realize the crazies would take control if Ryan's pal won. That should scare the Hell out of anyone with reason and intellect.
We'd be snokkered.
Or anytime you realize radical Islamists, Stalinists, and generic socialists will be running the asylum if....
Oh wait that already happened in '08, didn't it?
Quote from: Conan71 on October 11, 2012, 04:39:01 PM
Or anytime you realize radical Islamists, Stalinists, and generic socialists will be running the asylum if....
Oh wait that already happened in '08, didn't it?
That's what the GOP folks keep writing on their walls in feces.
Quote from: Townsend on October 11, 2012, 04:55:17 PM
That's what the GOP folks keep writing on their walls in feces.
+1. LOL.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 11, 2012, 02:09:24 PM
It just dawned on me today that for the first time in my life there is someone on a presidential ticket who is younger than I am. :o
I love it. You make me laugh....
Thinking Ryan probably should have worn a cup tonight....
Full body armor.
Favorite tweet/FB update of the night from someone who is watching..comes from Bill Maher.
"Hello 9 1 1? There s an old man beating a child on my tv"
I think someone got kicked in the junk tonight....maybe he can run it off with a 2:50 minute marathon!
It seems all the Republicans have to hang their hat on is "Biden laughed too much."
Quote from: nathanm on October 11, 2012, 09:53:59 PM
It seems all the Republicans have to hang their hat on is "Biden laughed too much."
Well of course! That and they didn't like the moderator. And Biden interrupted. And they didn't like his hairplugs...
Oh..the one good thing Ryan could take from this debate?
He could probably get a deal endorsing bottled water of some sort...or Gatorade.
Quote from: Hoss on October 11, 2012, 09:57:31 PM
Well of course! That and they didn't like the moderator. And Biden interrupted. And they didn't like his hairplugs...
Funny how interrupting cow Romney is OK, but Biden was off the mark.
Quote
He could probably get a deal endorsing bottled water of some sort...or Gatorade.
Yeah, one C-SPAN caller pointed out his constant sipping and said he should see a doctor.
There are people in this forum high-fiving each other over someone's "victory" in that debate? How sad a state must the left be in.
Quote from: guido911 on October 12, 2012, 12:26:43 AM
There are people in this forum high-fiving each other over someone's "victory" in that debate? How sad a state must the left be in.
You seem troubled by the happiness of others. Let it go.
I thought the moderator did an excellent job. I don't thing she could have prevented Biden's interruptions or guffaws, that's just Joe.
Both sides will find things they like about this debate. I think it offered an excellent contrast between the candidates and their administrative theme.
We will see how it affects the polls. I think Peggy Noonan gave a great account of the debate that seems to be consistant with what CNN, MSNBC, and even FOX reported as the sentiment among their undecided polling. http://online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html
I think Joe Biden did what the president cannot, and I think Paul Ryan was successful in swiping away the emotional jabs, interruptions and guffaws native to communication with Biden.
(http://blog.timesunion.com/politicssource/files/2012/10/vpdebate-0050-600x400.jpg)
Biden's buffoonery was popular with Chris Matthews, and for most on the left, that's all that matters.
Quote from: guido911 on October 12, 2012, 12:26:43 AM
There are people in this forum high-fiving each other over someone's "victory" in that debate? How sad a state must the left be in.
Another sad by Guido...awww..
The GOP has already adopted this as their new meme.
Quote from: Gaspar on October 12, 2012, 07:09:31 AM
The GOP has already adopted this as their new meme.
Funny. Romney does the same thing and he's applauded for it. Ryan gets his donkey kicked by the old man and the only thing the GOP can trot out is bad form. Dish it out but can't take it? Yup.
How incredibly predictable. Even the left capitulated when Romney won his debate. What the pundits on the right are saying about last night tells me everything I ever wanted to know about the Elephants.
Another tweet of last night I found hilarious, was, unexpectedly, this:
"I miss Jim Lehrer". That came from turdblossom (Karl Rove). Haha.
Quote from: Hoss on October 12, 2012, 07:11:59 AM
Funny. Romney does the same thing and he's applauded for it. Ryan gets his donkey kicked by the old man and the only thing the GOP can trot out is bad form. Dish it out but can't take it? Yup.
How incredibly predictable. Even the left capitulated when Romney won his debate. What the pundits on the right are saying about last night tells me everything I ever wanted to know about the Elephants.
Another tweet of last night I found hilarious, was, unexpectedly, this:
"I miss Jim Lehrer". That came from turdblossom (Karl Rove). Haha.
Really? Romney did not do the same thing at all. He was exceptionally respectful to the president, and he was respectful to the gravity of the issues. Romney may smirk a bit when his opponent makes an inaccurate claim, but Mr. Biden outright laughed at real issues, and provided 90 minutes of footage that is gold for the GOP.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8050/8079616958_6495689baf.jpg)
Quote from: Gaspar on October 12, 2012, 07:24:45 AM
Really? Romney did not do the same thing at all. He was exceptionally respectful to the president, and he was respectful to the gravity of the issues. Romney may smirk a bit when his opponent makes an inaccurate claim, but Mr. Biden outright laughed at real issues, and provided 90 minutes of footage that is gold for the GOP.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8050/8079616958_6495689baf.jpg)
But that's just it Scott. For the GOP. The people who were going to vote for them anyway.
It's just poor sportsmanship. Watching the righties spin in out since last night is great entertainment.
Hell, every time Romney opens his mouth you're not sure what's going to come out. He's changed his position on abortion four times this week. How's that not gold for the Democrats?
I just don't see how Papa Joe didn't kick Ryan in the junk last night, but that's just me. I noticed how quiet it got in here from the regular rightie crowd afterwards.
Let's remember that Romeny was AT THE PODIUM criticizing the administation on the Benghazi attack even before we knew what had happened. That's political opportunism. Oh, unless your a member of the GOP. Then it's strategy.
Quote from: Hoss on October 12, 2012, 07:28:58 AM
But that's just it Scott. For the GOP. The people who were going to vote for them anyway.
It's just poor sportsmanship. Watching the righties spin in out since last night is great entertainment.
Hell, every time Romney opens his mouth you're not sure what's going to come out. He's changed his position on abortion four times this week. How's that not gold for the Democrats?
I just don't see how Papa Joe didn't kick Ryan in the junk last night, but that's just me. I noticed how quiet it got in here from the regular rightie crowd afterwards.
Well I think we can all agree that letting Biden debate is like giving a monkey a chain saw, you know nothing good is going to come of it, but you prey that no one gets hurt. Biden did not do a great job, but at least he didn't deliver another huge block of voters to Romney like Obama did. I think he may have established himself as stronger name on the ticket. Unfortunately for him this is the only VP debate and the public will be left with this image. Saturday Night Live is going to have a blast with this tomorrow.
Quote from: Gaspar on October 12, 2012, 07:34:39 AM
Well I think we can all agree that letting Biden debate is like giving a monkey a chain saw, you know nothing good is going to come of it, but you prey that no one gets hurt. Biden did not do a great job, but at least he didn't deliver another huge block of voters to Romney like Obama did. I think he may have established himself as stronger name on the ticket. Unfortunately for him this is the only VP debate and the public will be left with this image. Saturday Night Live is going to have a blast with this tomorrow.
Yeah, making Ryan look like he got outclassed.
But Biden did the better job. Ryan looked confused much of the time. But of course, that's opinion. If you watch Fox News, it won't be yours.
Quote from: Hoss on October 12, 2012, 08:05:59 AM
Yeah, making Ryan look like he got outclassed.
But Biden did the better job. Ryan looked confused much of the time. But of course, that's opinion. If you watch Fox News, it won't be yours.
Each side got something out of this debate. We'll have to see if it affects polling.
When a wise person debates with a fool, the fool rages and laughs, and there is no peace and quiet. -Proverbs 29:9
Answer fools with silence. – Iranian Proverb
Quote from: Gaspar on October 12, 2012, 08:08:53 AM
Each side got something out of this debate. We'll have to see if it affects polling.
When a wise person debates with a fool, the fool rages and laughs, and there is no peace and quiet. -Proverbs 29:9
Answer fools with silence. – Iranian Proverb
The whole point, Mr. Blue Font, is that it's a debate. ::)
Meh. I thought of this last night. Since I am not a real Political Scholar who better to ask than my TNF friends.
To me VP really does not do a whole hell of a lot so....
What VP ever did so much that after his term in office he ran for President and won? Not by default. That doesn't count.
To me it looked like the CRP went up to the VP and said "Remember how you treated the last person you debated for the office?" "Do the opposite."
Quote from: Townsend on October 11, 2012, 04:55:17 PM
That's what the GOP folks keep writing on their walls in feces.
I just blew coffee out my nose. Thanks.
On issues, I can't really say there was a winner, it's pretty much the same issues we've heard all campaign from each side.
If success in a debate is judged on obnoxiousness, guffaws, and disrespect, Biden certainly did kick Ryan's donkey. I was in competitive debate in high school. When I knew I was out-gunned by my opponent(s) or didn't have a grasp on their case I simply changed the tone of my voice and went pit bull. It still didn't change the fact that the opposing team brought in a squirrel case no one had heard before and I had little to no evidence to back up any points I could try and rebut. In other words, I may have sounded better or more aggressive and got points for delivery. However, being short on facts, I still lost.
For those who think Biden won on issues, what did he trot out that was new or even a relevant message? Seriously, I'd like to hear it.
For those who think Ryan won on issues, I'd like to hear what was new and relevant from him. I really got nothing new from either side.
IMO, Biden was in defense mode the entire debate having to defend the failed policies of the current admin, he even managed to get in a "We inherited...". I heard nothing about the Obama campaign's plans to create jobs, extract us from Afghanistan, what they are going to do about Iran and Syria, and any other new ideas on the debt and deficit other than raising taxes on the wealthy. More failed policy which four years later hasn't worked. He stammered, he stuttered, and ad-libbed. Admittedly, he's a better ad libber than President Obama but Ryan still came off as more polished after looking a little awkward and out of place early on.
Biden sounded like a used car salesman: "My friend, Governor Romney". Chris Wallace ("your little conservative hit job") said after covering and observing presidential and VP debates ever since the 1960 election, Biden's performance was the most patronizing and disrespectful they he's ever seen.
Watch the closing comments and you can see a big difference in the two men's demeanor:
Biden, in his closing comments, looked at the moderator and really came off as this was just his job to come pat little Paulie on the head.
Ryan, on the other hand, looked directly at the camera and appeared sincere and professional in his closing comments.
One thing I think everyone will agree on is Ryan is a far better VP candidate than Palin was.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 12, 2012, 11:09:48 AM
On issues, I can't really say there was a winner, it's pretty much the same issues we've heard all campaign from each side.
If success in a debate is judged on obnoxiousness, guffaws, and disrespect, Biden certainly did kick Ryan's donkey. I was in competitive debate in high school. When I knew I was out-gunned by my opponent(s) or didn't have a grasp on their case I simply changed the tone of my voice and went pit bull. It still didn't change the fact that the opposing team brought in a squirrel case no one had heard before and I had little to no evidence to back up any points I could try and rebut. In other words, I may have sounded better or more aggressive and got points for delivery. However, being short on facts, I still lost.
For those who think Biden won on issues, what did he trot out that was new or even a relevant message? Seriously, I'd like to hear it.
For those who think Ryan won on issues, I'd like to hear what was new and relevant from him. I really got nothing new from either side.
IMO, Biden was in defense mode the entire debate having to defend the failed policies of the current admin, he even managed to get in a "We inherited...". I heard nothing about the Obama campaign's plans to create jobs, extract us from Afghanistan, what they are going to do about Iran and Syria, and any other new ideas on the debt and deficit other than raising taxes on the wealthy. More failed policy which four years later hasn't worked. He stammered, he stuttered, and ad-libbed. Admittedly, he's a better ad libber than President Obama but Ryan still came off as more polished after looking a little awkward and out of place early on.
Biden sounded like a used car salesman: "My friend, Governor Romney". Chris Wallace ("your little conservative hit job") said after covering and observing presidential and VP debates ever since the 1960 election, Biden's performance was the most patronizing and disrespectful they he's ever seen.
Watch the closing comments and you can see a big difference in the two men's demeanor:
Biden, in his closing comments, looked at the moderator and really came off as this was just his job to come pat little Paulie on the head.
Ryan, on the other hand, looked directly at the camera and appeared sincere and professional in his closing comments.
One thing I think everyone will agree on is Ryan is a far better VP candidate than Palin was.
If you consider lying about the issues more a better candidate, then sure he is.
Quote from: Hoss on October 12, 2012, 11:43:00 AM
If you consider lying about the issues more a better candidate, then sure he is.
She lied too but she added an extra tub of crazy.
Quote from: Hoss on October 12, 2012, 11:43:00 AM
If you consider lying about the issues more a better candidate, then sure he is.
What were the specific lies Ryan told last night, Hoss?
Here you go guys. Thought I'd throw this in there.
Quote"Why Biden Won"
by Robert Reich
I thought Biden won last night's debate because he came off as genuine, passionate, and brimming with conviction. Ryan, by contrast, seemed like a wooden marionette, a kid out of his depth relative to someone who not only knew the facts but lived them.
On taxes, Ryan couldn't come up with any details about what loopholes he and Romney would close, or how their magic arithmetic (giant tax cut for the wealthy plus $2 trillion more for the military than the Joint Chiefs of Staff want) can possibly be paid for without socking it to the middle class.
By contrast, Biden made the case for average working people whose wages have barely risen in thirty years but who are bearing a higher total tax burden (payroll, sales, property, income) on a higher percent of their income than high rollers like Romney — and why the well off should do more.
On Medicare, Ryan couldn't explain why his plan wasn't a voucher program that "saved" money only by shifting the costs on to seniors who would end up holding the bag as medical costs rose. Biden effectively defended the President's plan to save Medicare by cutting excessive payments to providers.
Biden also pointed out that Ryan and his allies had tried to privatize Social Security. Score another one for Joe.
On abortion, Ryan had to admit he and Romney would work to prevent women from having the right to choose an abortion if they needed and wanted one. Biden made it clear his religious beliefs about when life began should not, in his view, force anyone who didn't share them to follow them.
I thought Biden's closing could have been tougher, drawing a sharper contrast between the Romney-Ryan "you're on your own" worldview, and the "we're in it all together" belief that has built America — and which Obama and Biden represent.
But overall it was Biden's night. He not only trounced Ryan, but also, in the process, trounced Romney. Joe Biden is an average Joe solidly grounded in America's working middle class — nothing pretentious or devious about him — in contrast to the plutocrat who heads the Republican ticket, and the billionaires who are backing him.
(http://front.moveon.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/robert_reich.jpeg)
QuoteBut overall it was Biden's night. He not only trounced Ryan, but also, in the process, trounced Romney. Joe Biden is an average Joe solidly grounded in America's working middle class — nothing pretentious or devious about him — in contrast to the plutocrat who heads the Republican ticket, and the billionaires who are backing him.
Reisch is always good for a laugh!
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q55/71conan/TN/ReischMeme.jpg)
Apparently the debate did have an effect on polling. 4 more states have now moved from "leaning Obama" to "toss up."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html
Never really expected Romney to pull Florida, but I guess with Biden and Obama's help he's doing it!
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/timesbay-news-9herald-exclusive-florida-poll-romney-51-obama-44/1255882
Quote from: Conan71 on October 12, 2012, 12:13:07 PM
Reisch is always good for a laugh!
I expected a height joke first.
Quote from: Gaspar on October 12, 2012, 12:22:54 PM
Never really expected Romney to pull Florida, but I guess with Biden and Obama's help he's doing it!
Land line phone poll?
Quote from: Townsend on October 12, 2012, 12:28:38 PM
Land line phone poll?
Yeah, and these.
RCP Average Romney +2.0
Rasmussen Reports Romney +4
TBT/Herald/Mason-Dixon Romney +7
ARG Romney +3
Quote from: Gaspar on October 12, 2012, 12:31:31 PM
Yeah, and these.
RCP Average Romney +2.0
Rasmussen Reports Romney +4
TBT/Herald/Mason-Dixon Romney +7
ARG Romney +3
Land line phone polls?
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/12/poll-romney-advantage-in-florida/?cid=sf_twitter (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/12/poll-romney-advantage-in-florida/?cid=sf_twitter)
QuoteThe latest CNN Poll of Polls - which is an average of six Florida polls of likely voters conducted over the past week two weeks - taken September 16-30 shows Obama with an advantage in the state, 50% to Romney's 45%.
Quote from: Gaspar on October 12, 2012, 12:31:31 PM
Yeah, and these.
RCP Average Romney +2.0
Rasmussen Reports Romney +4
TBT/Herald/Mason-Dixon Romney +7
ARG Romney +3
QuoteThe Tampa Bay Times/Bay News 9/Miami Herald survey consisted of 800 telephone interviews of likely Florida voters and was conducted from October 8-10 by Mason-Dixon Polling & Research for the Times and its media partners. The poll's sampling error is plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.
Romney really needs to send Biden a card.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8330/8080352822_f2d8531e41.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8325/8080352836_7e543cabdc.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8052/8080366249_691fdc77ed.jpg)
Thanks Joe! :D ;D :o ;D :D :) ;D :D
Are you seeking a poll that uses genital electrodes?
When all else fails blame the pollsters.
Quote from: Gaspar on October 12, 2012, 12:41:45 PM
Romney really needs to send Biden a card.
So all these polls you have were taken after last night's debate?
Quote from: Gaspar on October 12, 2012, 12:42:53 PM
Are you seeking a poll that uses genital electrodes?
I'm not into what you are into.
Quote from: Townsend on October 12, 2012, 12:35:25 PM
Land line phone polls?
There were I think four so-called "scientific" polls. CBS gave Biden the win with massive undecideds. CNN and CNBC went for Ryan. AP has a poll going for Ryan folks are taking about, but I have not seen it.
The left talking heads polls which has Hoss all woodied up I guess went to Biden. For those that excited about Biden, here's to you!!!
Quote from: Townsend on October 12, 2012, 12:44:18 PM
I'm not into what you are into.
You do not know what you're missing.
Quote from: guido911 on October 12, 2012, 12:46:14 PM
You do not know what you're missing.
Burn scars I'd imagine.
I take good news from his posts because he tends to be so incredibly far off on the market and politics.
Paul Ryan's dad:
(http://c0014524.r32.cf1.rackcdn.com/x2_f0cf4d8)
THIS explains Biden's comments during the debate about intel and Benghazi:
I am sure this guy understands Carney.
(http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/spicoli.jpg)
I am honestly surprised folks are trying to portray Biden as a winner of anything last night. I personally do not care about his mannerisms, since those can be interpreted in many ways--positive and negative. I only saw contrasting views.
Quote from: Townsend on October 12, 2012, 12:46:57 PM
Burn scars I'd imagine.
I call them "hickeys". Okay. Back to seriousness.
The FB page "Paul Ryan Is A Dooshbag" has the win squarely in Biden's lap.
Oh yeah, they also claim Ryan doesn't have a penis, he's an altarboy, racist, a-hole, queer, you name it.
Though there was this poignant comment: " Joe Biden...clueless...talentless...and I pray....jobless...soon."
Here's this well-informed opinion: "I saw a 30 sec clip on the news and this was great TV. Biden RULES!"
Yet another : "Good thing it will be easier to get help for mental illness with Obamacare, because R&R supporters need it STAT"
Quote from: guido911 on October 12, 2012, 12:55:09 PM
THIS explains Biden's comments during the debate about intel and Benghazi:
I am sure this guy understands Carney.
(http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/spicoli.jpg)
I am honestly surprised folks are trying to portray Biden as a winner of anything last night. I personally do not care about his mannerisms, since those can be interpreted in many ways--positive and negative. I only saw contrasting views.
Actually I liked Wasserface talking to Pierce Morgan on CNN yesterday when she defended the president by saying "Putting Out Wrong Information on Libya 'Doesn't Mean It Was False." At that point Pierce Morgan's head almost exploded! Then last night Stephanie Cutter repeated that claim to Fox's Bret Baier and he looked like he was going to get out of his chair and slap her.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 12, 2012, 01:05:27 PM
The FB page "Paul Ryan Is A Dooshbag" has the win squarely in Biden's lap.
Oh yeah, they also claim Ryan doesn't have a penis, he's an altarboy, racist, a-hole, queer, you name it.
Though there was this poignant comment: " Joe Biden...clueless...talentless...and I pray....jobless...soon."
Here's this well-informed opinion: "I saw a 30 sec clip on the news and this was great TV. Biden RULES!"
Yet another : "Good thing it will be easier to get help for mental illness with Obamacare, because R&R supporters need it STAT"
Damn, Ryan's mom is ruthless.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 12, 2012, 01:05:27 PM
Yet another : "Good thing it will be easier to get help for mental illness with Obamacare, because R&R supporters need it STAT"
Not if you are on medicare.
Quote from: Townsend on October 12, 2012, 01:06:49 PM
Damn, Ryan's mom is ruthless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcYppAs6ZdI
Ah, yes..the regular right wing water-carriers out in force today. Hmm...I smell straw....must be Gweed, Gas and Conan...
And when your guy loses, leave to your media arm to suggest the VP was drunk during the debate. Not surprising.
http://www.politicususa.com/news-launches-smear-campaign-vice-president-joe-biden.html
And when pushed about the '20 percent tax' specifics, he couldn't.
Quote from: Hoss on October 12, 2012, 01:34:24 PM
And when your guy loses, leave to your media arm to suggest the VP was drunk during the debate. Not surprising.
http://www.politicususa.com/news-launches-smear-campaign-vice-president-joe-biden.html
Can you at least TRY to link to something objective. Sheesh you suck. An article that cites itself as a source for Biden's performance? Hell, the AUTHOR of the story you linked to cites freakin HIMSELF.
http://www.politicususa.com/joe-biden-dominates-paul-ryan-democrats-mojo-vp-debate.html
And how about pulling the anecdote out about Ryan talking about Romney having to pay medical expenses after a car crash. That seemed a little out there to me, considering what happened to Biden's entire family.
Quote from: guido911 on October 12, 2012, 01:47:07 PM
Can you at least TRY to link to something objective. Sheesh you suck. An article that cites itself as a source for Biden's performance? Hell, the AUTHOR of the story you linked to cites freakin HIMSELF.
http://www.politicususa.com/joe-biden-dominates-paul-ryan-democrats-mojo-vp-debate.html
How far from breech is your head, Gweed? You guys crack me up!
Quote from: Hoss on October 12, 2012, 01:34:24 PM
And when your guy loses, leave to your media arm to suggest the VP was drunk during the debate. Not surprising.
http://www.politicususa.com/news-launches-smear-campaign-vice-president-joe-biden.html
I think Biden was sober. Based on his performance, I don't think we would like him if he was drunk.
(http://o.onionstatic.com/images/18/18374/16x9/635.jpg?2381)
Quote from: Hoss on October 12, 2012, 01:48:52 PM
How far from breech is your head, Gweed? You guys crack me up!
Are you still talking? I would be beyond embarrassed if I were you. Someone please throw this guy a life preserver.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 12, 2012, 11:49:21 AM
What were the specific lies Ryan told last night
Here was my list from last night. Yes, I took notes. It's a compulsion.
#1: That the administration did not acknowledge that the attack in Benghazi was a terrorist attack for "weeks." Except that Obama's 9/12 statement in fact called it a terrorist attack. Oops.
#2: That a new SOFA could have been negotiated in Iraq. The fact of the matter is that the majority of the Iraqi parliament made very clear that they would not brook any agreement whatsoever, leaving our troops open to being prosecuted by the Iraqis or someone else.
#3: Ryan claimed that more can be done on Iran short of invading the country, which he refused to endorse. We already have sanctions as tough as is possible. To be fair, Biden's claim that the sanctions are working or can work is also a lie. Most of the rest of the world simply doesn't care to stop buying oil from Iran. The only people being hurt by the Rial's decline is the Iranian middle and lower classes. The government is still selling as much oil as they were 4 years ago, and thus has plenty of money.
#4: Ryan claimed that Iran has the fissile material necessary to make "five" nuclear weapons. They have the fissile material necessary to make zero nuclear weapons. Thus far, they have only 20% enriched uranium, which is necessary for their research reactor that makes medically useful isotopes, and LEU. Neither can be used to make a bomb without further processing which requires enough energy use to be very obvious to the intelligence community. Moreover, both spoke as if a new arms race would be sparked off in the region when in fact Pakistan and Israel both already have nuclear weapons and none of the other countries in the region have the resources necessary to develop them at the present time. (obviously, the saudis can afford it)
#5: Ryan claimed that the jobs picture is moving in the wrong direction. When Obama took office, more than 700,000 people a month were losing their jobs. Now month in and month out over 100,000 people gain employment. That is the correct direction.
#7: Ryan claimed that China owns a large portion of our debt. It's actually less than 20%.
#8: Ryan claimed that Obama's $716 billion cut was unilateral. It was not, it was agreed to by the AMA and hospitals in exchange for the individual mandate. He also claimed that Social Security benefits would have to be cut by 25% in a few decades when the trust fund runs out, implying that Obama believes that nothing should be done on the issue, which is not true. Moreover, by simply removing the cap on SS contributions, its solvency would be ensured out to 2080 or more. (and rich people would get more bennies in exchange..win win)
#9: Thank Biden for this one: Ryan's Medicare vouchers by definition cannot save money if they cover 100% of any medical cost increases unless they somehow magically reduce the rate of medical cost inflation all on their own.
#10: That the Taliban need refuge in Afghanistan. Ever since we invaded, the Taliban have been using the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (nominally Pakistani territory) as a base, crossing the Afghan border with impunity. Ryan managed to have quite the discussion about "fighting seasons" without figuring that one out.
This isn't numbered because it's just dumb and not an actual lie: Ryan thinks that our enemies will somehow be confused into not returning to Afghanistan as he claims they will if we simply don't preannounce a date for withdrawal from Afghanistan. Does he think they'll just forget?
Regardless of all that, the main thing I took away from the debate from what Ryan said is that he cannot articulate exactly how he would do anything differently than the present administration on foreign policy. He took exception with many policies of the President, but refused to say how a Romney-Ryan administration would differ. In some cases, the only way to be different would be to invade. (Iran and Syria) So color me rather unimpressed, as you probably expected.
Another meaningless poll, this time from Cali.
http://www.surveyusa.com/index.php/2012/10/12/californians-react-to-vp-debate-independents-split-moderates-see-biden-as-winner-but-vote-swtichers-32-like-romney-ryan/
PJ is having a blast with this:
I found these pics around the webs...
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f92/RetSignman/JERKmagnet.jpg)
(http://hillbuzz.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/VP_debate_visual1.jpg?cda6c1)
Here's one for you:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A4-cIgHCUAEtkTA.jpg)
Quote from: nathanm on October 12, 2012, 02:37:44 PM
Here's one for you:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A4-cIgHCUAEtkTA.jpg)
I thought I posted that one already. That was my favorite.
Quote from: guido911 on October 12, 2012, 02:40:55 PM
I thought I posted that one already. That was my favorite.
Maybe you did. I didn't see it on the summary, but it could have been a couple of pages back. As penance, I will now post the picture of Obama, Biden, and Ryan meeting before the debate:
(http://mlkshk.com/r/K7WL)
Oh, and I was just reminded of another Ryan lie: Uranium enriching centrifuges don't spin faster to enrich more uranium. The speed is dictated by the atomic weight of the materials being separated. Not being a nuclear engineer, I could be wrong, but that's what I recall from the Stuxnet discussion a while back. ;)
Quote from: Hoss on October 12, 2012, 01:34:24 PM
And when your guy loses, leave to your media arm to suggest the VP was drunk during the debate. Not surprising.
http://www.politicususa.com/news-launches-smear-campaign-vice-president-joe-biden.html
Wow! Someone call Whine One One and get a Whaaaaaambulance!
Quote from: Conan71 on October 12, 2012, 03:02:43 PM
Wow! Someone call Whine One One and get a Whaaaaaambulance!
Awesome. I can't remember how many times you and Gweed have used that one! Originality! You guys must sing using an autotuner also!
;D
Quote from: Hoss on October 12, 2012, 03:04:48 PM
Awesome. I can't remember how many times you and Gweed have used that one! Originality! You guys must sing using an autotuner also!
;D
Here it is in blue.
Wow! Someone call Whine One One and get a Whaaaaaambulance!
I think Hoss has a sad after last night's debate.
Quote from: Gaspar on October 12, 2012, 03:05:58 PM
Here it is in blue.
Wow! Someone call Whine One One and get a Whaaaaaambulance!
Excellent! Now, someone provide it Gweedo-ese. It will involve telling someone to FO, no doubt.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 12, 2012, 03:08:27 PM
I think Hoss has a sad after last night's debate.
Not I sir. I found it funny to see an old man kicking a young liar in the junk so many times.
Quote from: Hoss on October 12, 2012, 03:09:21 PM
Not I sir. I found it funny to see an old man kicking a young liar in the junk so many times.
Speaking of lies, did you catch where Biden claimed he didn't vote to put the two wars on a credit card?
Quote from: Conan71 on October 12, 2012, 03:18:32 PM
Speaking of lies, did you catch where Biden claimed he didn't vote to put the two wars on a credit card?
One would assume that he was referring to his record against the Bush Tax cuts in 2001 (http://"http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00170") and 2003 (http://"http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00196") and Part D (http://"http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00459"), not his votes to authorize war.
If you're actually an independent, why do you give such credulity to Rove's spin?
Quote from: nathanm on October 12, 2012, 03:38:05 PM
One would assume that he was referring to his record against the Bush Tax cuts in 2001 (http://"http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00170") and 2003 (http://"http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00196") and Part D (http://"http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00459"), not his votes to authorize war.
If you're actually an independent, why do you give such credulity to Rove's spin?
I've not heard nor seen anything by Rove after the debate. Rather you are the one who is spinning. I hope you are sitting down.
He's saying he voted against two wars, the prescription drug plan and the tax cuts. He's correct on the drug plan and tax cuts, but he most definitely voted for the two wars. No need to parse it Nate, you won't bait me in. He flat out lied.
Here's what Biden said:
Quote"By the way, they talk about this great recession like it fell out of the sky–like, 'Oh my goodness, where did it come from?'" Biden said. "It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy."
"I was there, I voted against them," Biden continued. "I said, no, we can't afford that."
Then Sen. Biden voted for the Afghanistan resolution on Sept. 14, 2001 which authorized "the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States."
And on Oct. 11, 2002, Biden voted for a resolution authorizing unilateral military action in Iraq, according to the Washington Post.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-insinuates-he-didnt-vote-afghanistan-iraq-wars_654253.html
If you've missed the playoffs for this bs then I feel for you.
This is a reminder that Msr. Coulter is on Bill Maher tonight....after the Yanks go down (hoping)....how about those Giants? Can the cards beat DC?
BEAT TEXASS!
Neil Young is coming to the Civic Center Sunday! Rock and Roll will never die!
Quote from: Conan71 on October 12, 2012, 03:56:23 PM
I've not heard nor seen anything by Rove after the debate. Rather you are the one who is spinning. I hope you are sitting down.
He's saying he voted against two wars, the prescription drug plan and the tax cuts. He's correct on the drug plan and tax cuts, but he most definitely voted for the two wars. No need to parse it Nate, you won't bait me in. He flat out lied.
Let's try that again. Biden said, as you quoted:
Quote
It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card
Biden voted to put zero wars "on a credit card". He voted for two wars, one of which I disagreed with at the time. Both interpretations are at least somewhat reasonable, but it's unreasonable to call someone a liar when their words can be interpreted in a way that is in fact true. Had Biden voted for the tax cuts or left out the "on a credit card" bit, it would indeed be an outright lie in any reasonable interpretation of his words.
Just an update based on the polling averages. If you ASSume that any candidate polling on at least 51% in a state will win that state come November, Obama is presently at 269 EVs and Romney at 206 EVs. If Romney sweeps the states within that margin, he will also end up with 269 EVs. If the debates don't move the needle further, it will be a very contentious winter.
Quote from: nathanm on October 12, 2012, 02:02:38 PM
#10: That the Taliban need refuge in Afghanistan. Ever since we invaded, the Taliban have been using the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (nominally Pakistani territory) as a base, crossing the Afghan border with impunity. Ryan managed to have quite the discussion about "fighting seasons" without figuring that one out.
This isn't numbered because it's just dumb and not an actual lie: Ryan thinks that our enemies will somehow be confused into not returning to Afghanistan as he claims they will if we simply don't preannounce a date for withdrawal from Afghanistan. Does he think they'll just forget?
You and I understand the fighting seasons concept differently. I understood it to mean that we should get out while the Taliban are less likely to attack due to the snow etc. That would give the last of our guys to get out a better chance of not getting killed due to low US troop numbers. After that, we're gone and it doesn't matter (directly) to our troops if the Taliban comes back.
Quote from: Hoss on October 12, 2012, 03:09:21 PM
Not I sir. I found it funny to see an old man liar kicking a young liar in the junk so many times.
I would have high lighted the correction in red but since you like blue so much, I decided to be nice.
Quote from: nathanm on October 12, 2012, 02:49:38 PM
Oh, and I was just reminded of another Ryan lie: Uranium enriching centrifuges don't spin faster to enrich more uranium. The speed is dictated by the atomic weight of the materials being separated. Not being a nuclear engineer, I could be wrong, but that's what I recall from the Stuxnet discussion a while back. ;)
I doubt Ryan is a nuclear engineer either. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he used that statement as a metaphor for speeding up the process. You would have given Biden the same benefit had Biden said something like that.
Quote from: nathanm on October 12, 2012, 02:02:38 PM
#4: Neither can be used to make a bomb without further processing which requires enough energy use to be very obvious to the intelligence community.
Is this the same intelligence community that told the "administration" that the mess in Libya was a spontaneous protest according to Biden? Is this the same intelligence community that gave us the war in Iraq?
Quote
#5: Ryan claimed that the jobs picture is moving in the wrong direction. When Obama took office, more than 700,000 people a month were losing their jobs. Now month in and month out over 100,000 people gain employment. That is the correct direction.
Ryan claimed that the growth was slowing. (Less new jobs last month than the month before for a few months. I haven't checked for myself as I'm sure you will post 27 charts showing otherwise if you can.) Think in rates of change, not just the number of jobs.
QuoteMoreover, by simply removing the cap on SS contributions, its solvency would be ensured out to 2080 or more. (and rich people would get more bennies in exchange..win win)
Rich people will not benefit in proportion to the increase in their payments. They cannot or the lower and middle economic classes will not benefit. Win/Not lose quite so much. I haven't seen the numbers one way or the other to prove that removing the cap alone will actually provide enough money by taxing the 1% to provide for the 99%. There's a LOT of people out there that aren't reaching the cap already.
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 12, 2012, 05:45:37 PM
I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he used that statement as a metaphor for speeding up the process.
Ok. We'll call it a metaphor. It's also untrue as best I can tell, but it's not an outright misstatement of fact if indeed it was intended metaphorically.
Quote
You would have given Biden the same benefit had Biden said something like that.
I don't think so, but maybe. We do all have biases, no matter how much we try to examine and purge them.
As for your second post:
1) If you don't believe the intelligence community, there's not any evidence of malintent on Iran's part. The Ayatollahs have long claimed to be against nuclear weaponry and even Ahmadinejad recently claimed the program was entirely peaceful.
2) Ok, so he's against the seasonality in employment. Good to know he likes to tilt at windmills.
3) Sure they can, thanks to the baby boomer bulge dying off before the current wealthy begin drawing benefits. The wealthy who are already close to retirement would not pay in enough to increase their benefits so much as to offset the increased inflow. Also, Ryan stated last night that the R-R ticket is in favor of means testing anyway. I'm not, but by their standard there should be no problem reducing benefits as necessary for high income people. Alternatively, we could do what Obamacare did for the Medicare portion and apply it to capital gains income as well.
You pretty much know the right thinks you've beaten them up when you get Fox guys like Bolling to say Biden is a "condescending, smug, morally and intellectually bankrupt man"
Cripes!
Quote from: Hoss on October 12, 2012, 06:49:23 PM
You pretty much know the right thinks you've beaten them up when you get Fox guys like Bolling to say Biden is a "condescending, smug, morally and intellectually bankrupt man"
I'm probably repeating itself, but it is funny how Romney was not seen as condescending and smug despite his interrupting cow routine during the first debate. I think it's more likely that the people on Fox are morally and intellectually bankrupt.
Quote from: nathanm on October 12, 2012, 06:52:44 PM
I'm probably repeating itself, but it is funny how Romney was not seen as condescending and smug despite his interrupting cow routine during the first debate. I think it's more likely that the people on Fox are morally and intellectually bankrupt.
I expect some interrupting, it's a political debate. I do think Biden took the interruptions to the whole next level. He reminded me of a few people I know that when the conversation isn't going their way, they stop listening, talk continuously and, if necessary, raise their voice to drown out what they don't want to hear. At that time, there is no conversation. I walk away.
The Democratic party has worked tirelessly to paint Romney as a rich guy who cannot relate to the average guy. I guess a little condescension from him is expected. The fact that there wasn't more of it was a plus for Romney. Biden is supposed to be a common Joe. Condescension from him sticks out like (whatever unfavorable analogy you want). A smile from Romney, even if it was forced, is not the same as a blatant contempt smirk and outright laughter. Biden did way too much of both.
Quote from: nathanm on October 12, 2012, 06:22:01 PM
1) If you don't believe the intelligence community, there's not any evidence of malintent on Iran's part. The Ayatollahs have long claimed to be against nuclear weaponry and even Ahmadinejad recently claimed the program was entirely peaceful.
I don't think we need to Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran. (Old enough to remember that take on Barbara Ann by the Beach Boys and the Regents before them?)
I do not trust the Iranians. Period.
Quote from: nathanm on October 12, 2012, 04:35:42 PM
Let's try that again. Biden said, as you quoted:
Biden voted to put zero wars "on a credit card". He voted for two wars, one of which I disagreed with at the time. Both interpretations are at least somewhat reasonable, but it's unreasonable to call someone a liar when their words can be interpreted in a way that is in fact true. Had Biden voted for the tax cuts or left out the "on a credit card" bit, it would indeed be an outright lie in any reasonable interpretation of his words.
::)
Quote from: nathanm on October 12, 2012, 06:52:44 PM
I think it's more likely that the people on Fox are morally and intellectually bankrupt.
That's been general knowledge for many years.
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 12, 2012, 09:27:58 PM
A smile from Romney, even if it was forced, is not the same as a blatant contempt smirk and outright laughter. Biden did way too much of both.
At least Biden was only showing contempt for Ryan. Ryan was showing contempt for the American people by repeatedly lying to us. Looking like a cute lost puppy doesn't make that any more OK.
Quote from: nathanm on October 12, 2012, 10:18:42 PM
At least Biden was only showing contempt for Ryan.
I disagree. I think Biden was being less than truthful too.
Ok...so Ryan and Romney agree completely with the 2014 withdrawal timeframe for Afghanistan. Ryan said so.
But to set a timeframe is a huge mistake. Ryan also said so.
No wonder they seem so schizoid....they are!
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 12, 2012, 10:32:37 PM
I think Biden was being less than truthful too.
You think or you know? Even under the assumption that he stated that he did not vote for the war resolutions, I'm having a hard time coming up with anything else. I guess I'll go through the transcript and see if there's anything else that jumps out at me...
Edited to add: Ok, this is the first thing that jumped out at me (other than Biden not mentioning Stuxnet, which destroyed most of their centrifuges before being discovered):
Quote
These people are my mom and dad — the people I grew up with, my neighbors. They pay more effective tax than Governor Romney pays in his federal income tax. They are elderly people who in fact are living off of Social Security.
He probably meant to say "tax rate," but didn't, so that's probably a lie unless the people he grew up with have very high wage income.
I will continue to look.
Edited again to add: Darn it, found another Ryan lie. He said "The economy is barely limping along. It's growing a[t] 1.3 percent." GDP actually grew over 2% in the past year (as of the latest GDP number, Q2), in inflation-adjusted terms.
Edited again to add: smile, another Ryan lie: "On two occasions we — we — we advocated for constituents who were applying for grants. That's what we do."
It was actually at least four, it turns out. I'll keep trying.
Edited yet again to add: love, yet another Ryan lie: "Their own actuary from the administration came to Congress and said one out of six hospitals and nursing homes are going to go out of business as a result of this."
Nope. He actually said that one in six would become
unprofitable if and only if they failed to reduce administrative costs and improve productivity (the productivity increases actually trigger payments in excess of the new baseline) as required by PPACA, which may or may not be achievable. And it was a memo (http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/OACT_memo_on_financial_impact_100423.pdf).
Personally, I think it's good to get them to at least try harder. There are enough PE deals involving buying hospitals that I'm more than a little skeptical here. PE guys do a lot of dumb things, but they're usually not stupid enough to get into a business where they think they can't make money.
Edited again to add: Ah, found one, although some argue Biden misspoke:
Quote
The two budgets the congressman introduced have eviscerated all the things that the middle class cares about. It is (inaudible) he will knock 19 million people off of Medicare. It will kick 200,000 children off of early education. It will eliminate the tax credit people have to be able to send their children to college. It cuts education by $450 billion.
The education cuts are actually only $4.5 billion, and all those numbers presume that Ryan's discretionary spending cuts will be across-the-board cuts, which Romney has stated he will not do. That said, neither Romney or Ryan will provide enough detail to figure out exactly what they'll cut so it is as good an estimate as is available. I guess that's one way to make the Romneymeter look better than the Obamameter.
Suppose we DID have privatized Social Security. And in 2000, your privatized Social Security bought GM - stable investment, right? That was the year it peaked at $94.63.
Fast forward ten years - 2010. Value of that privatized Social Security account.... $ 0.
Yeah, now there's a step up for individuals. But the executives STILL got their bonuses through out the entire process. What's good for GM is good for America... I'll leave it as exercise to see who said that. (Hint: Michael Moore has almost prescient insights.)
Ryan said he doesn't believe "unelected" judges should have anything to say about legislative actions - only "elected" representatives. In spite of the FACT that the Constitution DEFINES it that way....
Red,
I guess if I can't use the same thought that others think regarding batteries in cars, how about Romney stealing a line from a movie? Is that equally 'wrong'?? Can I hear a little moral indignation here?
http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201210/friday-night-lights-director-mitt-romney-dont-steal-our-phrase
And one last nugget for the day, thanks go to David Frum for linking it:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-12/the-final-word-on-mitt-romney-s-tax-plan.html
Quote
There you have the six "studies" on which the Romney campaign has based its defense of Romney's tax plan. Individually and collectively they fail the task.
Read the whole article to get the details on how/why the reports don't say what Ryan said they do.
Also, anybody know where Politifact got this?
Quote
Nordstrom was seeking more forces for the embassy mission nationally, not exclusively Benghazi. In fact, the number of guards at the Benghazi consulate when the attack occurred was at or near the number Nordstrom said were needed for that site.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on October 13, 2012, 12:09:05 AM
...how about Romney stealing a line from a movie?
Four years ago Obama stole the line "yes we can" from the TV show Bob the Builder.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on October 13, 2012, 08:02:09 AM
Four years ago Obama stole the line "yes we can" from the TV show Bob the Builder.
Yep. Everyone does it. I do it. You do it. Everyone does it. Somewhere, sometime, very soon, people with somewhat shared experiences and backgrounds will think similar thoughts. And sometimes exactly opposite thoughts - Red's comments about battery versus engine oil.
Even though we (he and I) share extensive backgrounds working on automotive equipment for decades, the first thing I thought of was the battery/electric motor in a Tesla form the propulsion system. They are inextricably linked as one entity. I probably go to that due to more electrical background. To me the differentiation comes from the fact that the electric motor can only use electrons. He got to propulsion separate from 'fuel' most likely based on his mechanical background - fuel can be gasoline, diesel, alcohol, etc. There is somewhat more separation from the actual motor from the fuel. Many look at it his way...many look at it my way.
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 12, 2012, 09:27:58 PM
I expect some interrupting, it's a political debate. I do think Biden took the interruptions to the whole next level.
The transcript doesn't bear out the idea that Biden interrupted significantly more than Ryan did, aside perhaps from during the exchange on Medicare. He did emote more than some would deem appropriate, however.
Quote from: nathanm on October 13, 2012, 05:08:58 PM
The transcript doesn't bear out the idea that Biden interrupted significantly more than Ryan did, aside perhaps from during the exchange on Medicare. He did emote more than some would deem appropriate, however.
I'm not going to spend the time to get and read the transcript. I watched it live.
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 13, 2012, 05:20:59 PM
I'm not going to spend the time to get and read the transcript. I watched it live.
With some talking head yammering in your ear about their impressions, if you're like most people.
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 13, 2012, 05:20:59 PM
I'm not going to spend the time to get and read the transcript. I watched it live.
Yeah...and we know from many decades of mistaken testimony just how accurate live observation translated to testimony is. Not reading the transcripts is just like forgetting what was said with any kind of detail...just going with one's preconceived notions of what should have been said - same as wishful thinking.
Quote from: nathanm on October 13, 2012, 05:36:30 PM
With some talking head yammering in your ear about their impressions, if you're like most people.
Not true. No commentary until the end. Then there was plenty.
Ok. Out of curiosity, what did you think of Romney's performance last week?
Quote from: nathanm on October 13, 2012, 07:21:52 PM
Ok. Out of curiosity, what did you think of Romney's performance last week?
It was good but not super. I expected better out of Obama. Obama's performance made Romney's look better than it really was.
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 14, 2012, 11:57:15 AM
It was good but not super.
So his constant interruptions and talking over the moderator didn't rate a mention? (Nothing wrong with that, we're all biased in some way or another, it's just nice to be conscious of them)
Quote from: nathanm on October 14, 2012, 05:51:58 PM
So his constant interruptions and talking over the moderator didn't rate a mention? (Nothing wrong with that, we're all biased in some way or another, it's just nice to be conscious of them)
I guess your idea of "constant interruptions and talking over the moderator" depends on the party of the perpetrator. As I said earlier, I expect interruptions in a political debate. I think Biden went overboard. I think Romney did not. You obviously disagree.
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 14, 2012, 10:06:49 PM
I guess your idea of "constant interruptions and talking over the moderator" depends on the party of the perpetrator. As I said earlier, I expect interruptions in a political debate. I think Biden went overboard. I think Romney did not. You obviously disagree.
Got your guido glasses on tonight, I see. In his world, if 10 is bad, then 1 is much worse.
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 14, 2012, 10:06:49 PM
I guess your idea of "constant interruptions and talking over the moderator" depends on the party of the perpetrator.
No, Biden played interrupting cow too, just not as much as Romney, and only slightly more than Ryan. Both Biden and Ryan mostly shut up when Radditz was speaking, though.
Now, if you were saying that Biden was playing laughing cow I would agree.
QuoteStand-ins for Republican presidential candidate, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, left, and President Barack Obama, right, run through a rehearsal with moderator Candy Crowley, back to camera, ahead of Tuesday's presidential debate, Monday, Oct. 15, 2012, at Hofstra University in Hempstead, N.Y. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
(http://hosted.ap.org/photos/8/8cbc05bd-5a4b-40f4-b908-08406bfa8b81-big.jpg)
Think she gets confused about who's supposed to be who?
Quote from: Townsend on October 15, 2012, 03:43:37 PM
(http://hosted.ap.org/photos/8/8cbc05bd-5a4b-40f4-b908-08406bfa8b81-big.jpg)
Think she gets confused about who's supposed to be who?
Yeah, the Romney stand in got the George Hamilton treatment.