Something I've noticed during the past month. Thunder Alley was the area outside the Chesapeake (Cheese a Peek?) Arena with a huge screen for the community to gather beneath the stars to enjoy in their NBA teams phenomena. It resembled a gathering of magical memories. That is until several blocks away, unrelated to the sport, a gunman (more gun nuts) unloaded a few rounds in a parking garage. Now inside the arena, you might look around and take notice of the lack of diversity (I won't bother you with those comments), but outside is where the melting pot can assemble. No more. Despite the public paying for the areas and the arena, the magic has been removed. And more security has been added.
Up on Cry Baby Hill in Tulsa during Tulsa Tough, I understand security had to be beefed up. Why? And I heard the same security put a little damper on the festivities.
We see this happening more and more. Is it a result of open carry? Or is it a result of paranoia? Or is it a result of the desire to curb people's enthusiasm through force?
Seems to me, it's going to be more difficult in the future to catch magical moments as government interferes with the environment by corralling people into a comfort zone. And where are all you "get the government out of our lives" peeps?
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/581290_378640585529469_322730986_n.jpg)
Quote from: Teatownclown on June 12, 2012, 12:00:36 PM
Something I've noticed during the past month. Thunder Alley was the area outside the Chesapeake (Cheese a Peek?) Arena with a huge screen for the community to gather beneath the stars to enjoy in their NBA teams phenomena. It resembled a gathering of magical memories. That is until several blocks away, unrelated to the sport, a gunman (more gun nuts) unloaded a few rounds in a parking garage. Now inside the arena, you might look around and take notice of the lack of diversity (I won't bother you with those comments), but outside is where the melting pot can assemble. No more. Despite the public paying for the areas and the arena, the magic has been removed. And more security has been added.
I'd guess that's part of their "working with local authorities to protect the public" that was talked about in one of the articles about the shooting.
Quote from: Teatownclown on June 12, 2012, 12:00:36 PM
Up on Cry Baby Hill in Tulsa during Tulsa Tough, I understand security had to be beefed up. Why? And I heard the same security put a little damper on the festivities.
Most likely concern for the safety of the riders. One rider gets tagged by a thrown beer can or hit in the face by a super soaker and the fun is done.
There's no comparison between the two events. Some jackass thug or thugs killed the fun for everyone in OKC by firing into a crowd. Should they shut down Thunder Alley because of one incident? I thought it sounded like a total knee-jerk reaction.
The CBH problem was people nearly being run down by the pace car and/or racers. Sound Pony, which is the de facto party host, has people posted in ref outfits with bullhorns and whistles to help keep the crowd back. Problem is, most people figure they are simply party characters, and ignore their commands to back up.
It's a potentially hazardous situation with drunkenly-exuberant people who apparently think the pace car can simply stop if they block the road or being run into by a bicycle won't hurt. A young child was almost run down by the pace car at one point and it wasn't even their parent who pulled the child to safety.
The only comparison between TA and CBH is when people start getting drunk in public en masse, crazy smile starts to happen and people can and do get hurt. I didn't feel the police presence put a damper on the CBH festivities, they weren't there to kill the fun, just to keep people from getting hurt or accidentally hurting a rider. JMO.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 12, 2012, 12:10:17 PM
There's no comparison between the two events. Some jackass thug or thugs killed the fun for everyone in OKC by firing into a crowd. Should they shut down Thunder Alley because of one incident? I thought it sounded like a total knee-jerk reaction.
The CBH problem was people nearly being run down by the pace car and/or racers. Sound Pony, which is the de facto party host, has people posted in ref outfits with bullhorns and whistles to help keep the crowd back. Problem is, most people figure they are simply party characters, and ignore their commands to back up.
It's a potentially hazardous situation with drunkenly-exuberant people who apparently think the pace car can simply stop if they block the road or being run into by a bicycle won't hurt. A young child was almost run down by the pace car at one point and it wasn't even their parent who pulled the child to safety.
The only comparison between TA and CBH is when people start getting drunk in public en masse, crazy smile starts to happen and people can and do get hurt. I didn't feel the police presence put a damper on the CBH festivities, they weren't there to kill the fun, just to keep people from getting hurt or accidentally hurting a rider. JMO.
That is not what occurred.
We were watching the Celts v. Heat the other night trying to recall all the things we use to do before fear invaded our lives. Like lying on the back dash with a car full of kids laughing and a carrying on. Any other examples of what we don't get to do anymore?
And I guess you don't mind government intrusion when it has to do with a community?
I was at Crybaby Hill on Sunday. I certainly didn't notice any dampening of festivities. Holy crap! The regulars said that it was twice as big this year as last. So, I don't think the festivities were dampened.
Conan is right. Any security is to protect everyone involved: revelers and riders alike. Having worked as a street marshall at the Blue Dome races, I can't imagine how stressful this must have been for the pace car, the motorcycles, and the riders... with no barriers separating the drunken revelers/spectators from the racers... and the party consuming the street. Er, I mean, course.
Amazing. Weird. Wonderful. I haven't laughed that much in forever! But I would totally understand if they have barriers next year. It's a miracle nobody got hurt.
Quote from: Teatownclown on June 12, 2012, 12:20:33 PM
That is not what occurred.
We were watching the Celts v. Heat the other night trying to recall all the things we use to do before fear invaded our lives. Like lying on the back dash with a car full of kids laughing and a carrying on. Any other examples of what we don't get to do anymore?
And I guess you don't mind government intrusion when it has to do with a community?
I'm sorry how is a jackass(s) firing into a crowd "not what occurred" when eight people were wounded by gunfire?
Let me refresh your memory:
QuoteA festive atmosphere in downtown Oklahoma City quickly turned violent Monday night when at least eight people were shot minutes after the Thunder defeated the Lakers in Game 5, according to police. Initial reports indicating only three victims proved to be too conservative. Two suspects are in custody.
The shootings occurred in Bricktown, an entertainment district just three blocks from Chesapeake Energy Arena. The streets were full of celebrating fans when the shooting occurred; in addition to the fans leaving the arena, thousands more had gathered to watch the game on a giant LED screen mounted on the side of the arena, part of the "Thunder Alley" block party hosted by the team.
As far as CBH, this is competitive racing with close proximity to a crowd where there is lots of drinking under the hot afternoon sun. This is an instance where the crowd needs to be kept at a safe enough distance to keep riders or spectators from getting injured, otherwise the race organizers can A) Have their USAC racing sanction removed which means no pros coming to town B) Get sued when someone eventually is hurt for negligence in knowing people are in the middle of a race course during a race and not putting up barricades to keep them out of the street C) Tulsa loses one of their best and most visible events of the year. I've been on both sides of the barricades in crit racing so it's something I feel I'm well-qualified to speak on.
The police did nothing more than re-enforce what the Sound Pony guys were trying to do which was keep a wide enough berth from the crowd and racers. They weren't busting people for public intox, checking ID's, or trying to dampen the spirit. They were quite cool so long as people observed a safe distance from the racers.
Perhaps you should stick to commenting on things you actually experienced this weekend instead of loose conjecture about what did or didn't happen on CBH when those who were really there are of an entirely different viewpoint than yours.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 12, 2012, 02:26:41 PM
I'm sorry how is a jackass(s) firing into a crowd "not what occurred" when eight people were wounded by gunfire?
Let me refresh your memory:
As far as CBH, this is competitive racing with close proximity to a crowd where there is lots of drinking under the hot afternoon sun. This is an instance where the crowd needs to be kept at a safe enough distance to keep riders or spectators from getting injured, otherwise the race organizers can A) Have their USAC racing sanction removed which means no pros coming to town B) Get sued when someone eventually is hurt for negligence in knowing people are in the middle of a race course during a race and not putting up barricades to keep them out of the street C) Tulsa loses one of their best and most visible events of the year. I've been on both sides of the barricades in crit racing so it's something I feel I'm well-qualified to speak on.
The police did nothing more than re-enforce what the Sound Pony guys were trying to do which was keep a wide enough berth from the crowd and racers. They weren't busting people for public intox, checking ID's, or trying to dampen the spirit. They were quite cool so long as people observed a safe distance from the racers.
Perhaps you should stick to commenting on things you actually experienced this weekend instead of loose conjecture about what did or didn't happen on CBH when those who were really there are of an entirely different viewpoint than yours.
Yes. the shooting happened 3 blocks away. Busting up Thunder Alley spreads many of the deviants into neighborhood bars to drink more (imagine that). The one's that don't go to the bars are the one's who typically can't afford any of these activities but enjoy their
FREEdom which has been taken away from them. Coco, I'm begining to understand your fascist leanings. You're inconsistent in your demands for less government.
Quote from: Teatownclown on June 12, 2012, 02:32:11 PM
Yes. the shooting happened 3 blocks away. Busting up Thunder Alley spreads many of the deviants into neighborhood bars to drink more (imagine that). The one's that don't go to the bars are the one's who typically can't afford any of these activities but enjoy their FREEdom which has been taken away from them. Coco, I'm begining to understand your fascist leanings. You're inconsistent in your demands for less government.
Logical crowd control in trying to maintain safety is hardly a call for more government. Trust me, it was no buzz-kill for those involved on CBH. Mayor Bartlet (sic) shutting down the party next year because a few people were almost run down would be an over-reaction. Would you consider placing crowd barriers on the hill next year an over-reaction or government intervention? You need to remember the cops were there at the behest of the event promoter to help ensure safety, not some heavy-handed Orwellian crap you've conjured in your head.
I also said busting up Thunder Alley was a knee-jerk reaction. You know, a mistake. Cornett was a dumbshit for abolishing it because of something which was determined to be unrelated to the goings on in TA. It's unfortunate that one or two asshat thugs from the gangster lifestyle foobared that up for everyone else.
Well, it sounds as though you're being a little flexible with regard to the omnipotent presence of the police.
I am making an observation here about society and when you identify "knee jerkers" I do believe you understand my concern.
Now, what did you do as a kid that today would be considered too dangerous besides holding a roman candle (and no doubt aiming it at your classmates)....oh, buying drinks after class from someone's trunk does not qualify. :o
Quote from: Teatownclown on June 12, 2012, 02:54:17 PM
Well, it sounds as though you're being a little flexible with regard to the omnipotent presence of the police.
I am making an observation here about society and when you identify "knee jerkers" I do believe you understand my concern.
Now, what did you do as a kid that today would be considered too dangerous besides holding a roman candle (and no doubt aiming it at your classmates)....oh, buying drinks after class from someone's trunk does not qualify. :o
The police are always present at any public event- Mayfest, concerts, Oktoberfest, even the Ice Capades. It's called public safety which is what PD's are supposed to be there for in the first place.
If it ever comes to legions of brown shirts goose-stepping through my beloved Tulsa Tough, you will be the first to hear about it.
TPD could have arrested nearly everyone there if they had been so inclined. They did not. I don't think anyone was.
The problem from my perspective doesn't lie with the government but with society. People just don't know how to act in public anymore.
Who brings kids to a venue like Crybaby Hill and doesn't keep a hand on them at all times? If you don't want to watch your children, get a sitter. I spent a fair amount of time on the hill Sunday with my children. However, we had one adult for every kid, were sober and made sure they were within reaching distance at all times.
The crowd up there was bigger than I've ever seen it. I would have no problem with barricades up there for a few blocks. There is nothing that crowd does that can't be done from behind the safety of a barricade.
It's called personal responsibility. It's a shame we have to deal with overreacting government to "ensure" the safety of people.
Speaking of things people can't do anymore... Remember when all the local schools used to have open campus for lunch?
It's all a plan by the man to keep us down.
Quote from: TeeDub on June 13, 2012, 09:15:38 AM
Speaking of things people can't do anymore... Remember when all the local schools used to have open campus for lunch?
We'd leave campus for lunch and drive down the shoulder at 80 to 90 mph to get to Bueno, grab food, and haul back to campus in time to eat just before class started. That might have something to do with it.
edit: and the pot thing...
Quote from: Townsend on June 13, 2012, 09:18:26 AM
We'd leave campus for lunch and drive down the shoulder at 80 to 90 mph to get to Bueno, grab food, and haul back to campus in time to eat just before class started. That might have something to do with it.
edit: and the pot thing...
Man does that sound familiar. I never made it to fourth hour on time. Great nap class though.
Quote from: DolfanBob on June 13, 2012, 09:33:44 AM
Man does that sound familiar. I never made it to fourth hour on time. Great nap class though.
Typing. Yours?
Quote from: Townsend on June 13, 2012, 09:18:26 AM
We'd leave campus for lunch and drive down the shoulder at 80 to 90 mph to get to Bueno, grab food, and haul back to campus in time to eat just before class started. That might have something to do with it.
edit: and the pot thing...
And the shooting at the Wendy's on 21st and Garnett in the 90s...right after I moved back from Texas if I'm not mistaken...
Cry Baby Hill video
http://vimeo.com/43947788 (http://vimeo.com/43947788)
Quote from: Townsend on June 13, 2012, 10:27:17 AM
Cry Baby Hill video
http://vimeo.com/43947788 (http://vimeo.com/43947788)
Awesome. Dude with the megaphone and the sign "God Hates Crybabies" mocking the Westboro signs. That's well-played right there.
Quote from: Teatownclown on June 12, 2012, 02:54:17 PM
Well, it sounds as though you're being a little flexible with regard to the omnipotent presence of the police.
I am making an observation here about society and when you identify "knee jerkers" I do believe you understand my concern.
Now, what did you do as a kid that today would be considered too dangerous besides holding a roman candle (and no doubt aiming it at your classmates)....oh, buying drinks after class from someone's trunk does not qualify. :o
The police were there last year too, at least two of the officers were the same ones.
I was glad to see them, I thought they were very even handed and professional. I got a kick out of the officer on the bike that played as if he were one of the racers climbing the hill and the crowd loved it.
Quote from: Townsend on June 13, 2012, 09:46:41 AM
Typing. Yours?
English. I was moved to the front desk several times.
Quote from: DolfanBob on June 13, 2012, 10:49:32 AM
English. I was moved to the front desk several times.
I think the typing teacher felt the same about his class as the rest of us. A classroom full of justdon'tgiveadamns.
TTC, I think you need to be at the event before you start bitching about it.
I love crybaby hill. It is a street party with a bike race passing through. Baracades would go a long way in killing the party. The crowd parting as the riders are coming is awesome. MOST of the crowd takes the DUTY to get back very seriously. There was not a single incident of race interference and the participants seemed to love it.
I will also defend the police. They had overwhelming force available and readied at the bottom of the hill... they chose not to use it. TPD did a great job keeping order and not interfering with the festivities... and I criticize TPD plenty.
Paint/spray chalk lines on the street to stay behind when whistles are blown. Use police to kick people off the hill if they do not comply. Keep the party going!
Quote from: cannon_fodder on June 13, 2012, 11:00:00 AM
Paint/spray chalk lines on the street to stay behind when whistles are blown. Use police to kick people off the hill if they do not comply. Keep the party going!
I like the idea of using temporary paint for lining the street. I'm afraid chalk would wash away by all the garden hoses.
You could even make the route kind of weave left and right through the street a bit. Not that you'd necessarily want to, but it'd be fun to make shapes out of the crowd.
Was that Paul Tay in the Santa suit, or was it someone mocking Paul Tay in a Santa suit?
Quote from: Townsend on June 13, 2012, 10:27:17 AM
Cry Baby Hill video
http://vimeo.com/43947788 (http://vimeo.com/43947788)
Quote from: cynical on June 13, 2012, 01:11:09 PM
Was that Paul Tay in the Santa suit, or was it someone mocking Paul Tay in a Santa suit?
it was that second hipster ironic thing.
Quote from: cynical on June 13, 2012, 01:11:09 PM
Was that Paul Tay in the Santa suit, or was it someone mocking Paul Tay in a Santa suit?
I think Tay is afraid real cyclists will beat the smile out of him if he invades their turf ;)
Quotehttp://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/06/15/500507/stop-and-frisk-watch-smartphone-app/
'Stop-And-Frisk Watch' Smartphone App Allows New Yorkers To Push Back Against Unlawful Police Encounters
If you're concerned about possible racial profiling and police misconduct resulting from New York City's controversial "stop-and-frisk" policy, there's an app for that.
In response to potential civil rights issues stemming from stop-and-frisk tactics — which are often criticized for disproportionately targeting young black men — the New York Civil Liberties Union (NYCLU) has created a smartphone app to help bystanders record police misconduct. Since the app's release last week, more than 75,000 people have downloaded it.
NYCLU Executive Director Donna Lieberman explains that the app is necessary because, while New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has continued to defend the stop-and-frisk policy, city residents need to be empowered to make improvements in their own communities:
LIEBERMAN: Stop and Frisk Watch is about empowering individuals and community groups to confront abusive, discriminatory policing. The NYPD's own data shows that the overwhelming majority of people subjected to stop-and-frisk are black or Latino, and innocent of any wrongdoing. At a time when the Bloomberg administration vigorously defends the status quo, our app will allow people to go beyond the data to document how each unjustified stop further corrodes trust between communities and law enforcement.
The Stop-and-Frisk Watch app allows bystanders to record video of police encounters and send those videos straight to the NYCLU's servers. The app also shows users if there are other people using the app nearby, helping facilitate community groups working together to oppose police brutality, and contains a section called "Know Your Rights" that details the legal requirements for police confrontations.
NYCLU is also working with other labor, civil rights, and community organizations to organize a silent march against New York's stop-and-frisk policy to coincide with Father's Day this weekend.
interesting approach.... smart app
Quote from: Conan71 on June 14, 2012, 10:22:16 AM
I think Tay is afraid real cyclists will beat the smile out of him if he invades their turf ;)
Saw a car today at about 41st and Yale with a personalized tag on it that said "TAY". Now, I don't know if it was him (it was an Acura), but I threw up in my mouth a little bit after seeing it.
Quote from: Teatownclown on June 12, 2012, 12:00:36 PM
Something I've noticed during the past month. Thunder Alley was the area outside the Chesapeake (Cheese a Peek?) Arena with a huge screen for the community to gather beneath the stars to enjoy in their NBA teams phenomena. It resembled a gathering of magical memories. That is until several blocks away, unrelated to the sport, a gunman (more gun nuts) unloaded a few rounds in a parking garage. Now inside the arena, you might look around and take notice of the lack of diversity (I won't bother you with those comments), but outside is where the melting pot can assemble. No more. Despite the public paying for the areas and the arena, the magic has been removed. And more security has been added.
Off in the weeds again, are we?? Well, that is just something you do from time to time....
You did acknowledge this shooting was unrelated to the sport (of basketball), but then completely missed, either intentionally or by severely misguided lack of knowledge about what "gun nuts" are... the whole point that this was an act committed by a slime-ball punk criminal who somehow managed to get and use a gun in the commission of a crime - several felonies on behalf of himself and whomever supplied him that gun. And shot into a crowd - really doesn't matter what they are in; parking garage or flower garden - wounding 8.
Completely unrelated to ANY activity engaged in by anyone generally accepted and considered by society to be a "gun nut" - people whose activities with guns are so SELDOM criminal, that they don't even show up in FBI statistics - the category "slipping in the bathtub and dying" is more dangerous.
You got bath salts in that clown makeup??
Quote from: Townsend on June 13, 2012, 09:18:26 AM
We'd leave campus for lunch and drive down the shoulder at 80 to 90 mph to get to Bueno, grab food, and haul back to campus in time to eat just before class started. That might have something to do with it.
Went to Nathan Hale. Friend and mine girl friends at East Central. All got out at 3:30pm. Their bus picked them up at 3:37 pm, so if we wanted to give them a ride home, we had to make that in 6:50 seconds. From classroom, to parking lot, out 21st, up to 11th, east to school. We did so regularly, being the motivated 16 year old idiots most 16 year olds are.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 17, 2012, 01:34:12 PM
Went to Nathan Hale. Friend and mine girl friends at East Central. All got out at 3:30pm. Their bus picked them up at 3:37 pm, so if we wanted to give them a ride home, we had to make that in 6:50 seconds. From classroom, to parking lot, out 21st, up to 11th, east to school. We did so regularly, being the motivated 16 year old idiots most 16 year olds are.
Not as many lights on that trip back then as there are now though.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 17, 2012, 01:30:24 PM
Off in the weeds again, are we?? Well, that is just something you do from time to time....
You did acknowledge this shooting was unrelated to the sport (of basketball), but then completely missed, either intentionally or by severely misguided lack of knowledge about what "gun nuts" are... the whole point that this was an act committed by a slime-ball punk criminal who somehow managed to get and use a gun in the commission of a crime - several felonies on behalf of himself and whomever supplied him that gun. And shot into a crowd - really doesn't matter what they are in; parking garage or flower garden - wounding 8.
Completely unrelated to ANY activity engaged in by anyone generally accepted and considered by society to be a "gun nut" - people whose activities with guns are so SELDOM criminal, that they don't even show up in FBI statistics - the category "slipping in the bathtub and dying" is more dangerous.
You got bath salts in that clown makeup??
The shooting was not outside the arena in the Thunder Alley area. It could have been 10 miles away in another parking area with just as many victims. The problem, Heir, is not me but society in general that seems to be acquiring a whole new sense of what civility may be defined as now that it's acceptable behavior to insult the President to his face.
Quote from: Hoss on June 17, 2012, 01:47:35 PM
Not as many lights on that trip back then as there are now though.
21st & Mem
15th & mem
11th & mem
11th & Mingo
11th & Garnett
I think there is one right at the expressway crossing 11th that is "new".
Any more? I can't remember right now.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 17, 2012, 06:45:01 PM
21st & Mem
15th & mem
11th & mem
11th & Mingo
11th & Garnett
I think there is one right at the expressway crossing 11th that is "new".
Any more? I can't remember right now.
There are three more now.
One at 101st East and 11th.
One on either side of the highway.
I wouldn't have taken that route..for me it would have been faster straight up 21st to Garnett. Back in my HS days, that would have been six lights. It's now nine. Plus, you avoid blowing right past UDE on your trip. ;D
Quote from: Hoss on June 17, 2012, 06:50:02 PM
There are three more now.
One at 101st East and 11th.
One on either side of the highway.
I wouldn't have taken that route..for me it would have been faster straight up 21st to Garnett. Back in my HS days, that would have been six lights. It's now nine. Plus, you avoid blowing right past UDE on your trip. ;D
Did 21st once in a while, but always seemed to be smoother going 11th.
UDE? Unix Desktop Environment??
Oh...the cop shop!! It wasn't there at that time. Didn't show up for a LONG time after.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2012, 05:22:20 PM
Did 21st once in a while, but always seemed to be smoother going 11th.
UDE? Unix Desktop Environment??
Oh...the cop shop!! It wasn't there at that time. Didn't show up for a LONG time after.
Was always there for me. Well, at least during my HS years. It was Guaranty Nat'l Bank for a long while before that.
Quote from: Hoss on June 18, 2012, 05:30:09 PM
Was always there for me. Well, at least during my HS years. It was Guaranty Nat'l Bank for a long while before that.
You are a kid. I'm old. That's what time will do to ya...
Good thing we got time though.... it's what keeps one dam thing after another from being all dam things all at once!