Due to a shortage of drugs, state correctional officials want to bring back the electric chair and the firing squad for executions. The pharmaceuticals companies are refusing to sell the drugs for executions.
The governess is buying a guillotine....and a black hood.
Fort Smith has a working gallows, just across the state line.
Not so sure on the electric chair as "humane." Hanging done right, firing squad, and guillotine would all be swift deaths. Not "medical" or pretty - but the point is to have the state kill someone swiftly. I guess legalize them all and let the convict decide. Dead is dead.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on May 09, 2012, 11:17:29 PM
Not so sure on the electric chair as "humane." Hanging done right, firing squad, and guillotine would all be swift deaths. Not "medical" or pretty - but the point is to have the state kill someone swiftly. I guess legalize them all and let the convict decide. Dead is dead.
I like that idea. Personally, if facing a death sentence, I would want to be electrocuted. I'm just morbidly curious about how a full on electrocution would feel.
Stop all executions. Problem solved.
Quote from: custosnox on May 09, 2012, 11:20:43 PM
I like that idea. Personally, if facing a death sentence, I would want to be electrocuted. I'm just morbidly curious about how a full on electrocution would feel.
I got tangled up in 480 volts a couple times - you REALLY wouldn't like the feel. Take the bullet! The times I've been shot, the instant shock kind of blanked a lot of the pain. Electricity doesn't seem to do that.
Quote from: guido911 on May 09, 2012, 11:26:51 PM
Stop all executions. Problem solved.
I'll loan them some bullets if they need them.
Quote from: guido911 on May 09, 2012, 11:26:51 PM
Stop all executions. Problem solved.
Agreed. It's a useless penalty. If it were a real deterrent murder rates would be almost nil.
Secondly, crapital punishment and death row goes against everything I believe as a fiscal conservative.
QuoteStop all executions. Problem solved.
Agreed.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on May 09, 2012, 11:44:45 PM
I got tangled up in 480 volts a couple times - you REALLY wouldn't like the feel. Take the bullet! The times I've been shot, the instant shock kind of blanked a lot of the pain. Electricity doesn't seem to do that.
I've been hit a few times by 110 and 220, and I found it to be an interesting sensation. I know, I'm sick, but what can I say, I want to make sure I go out with a show
Quote from: guido911 on May 09, 2012, 11:26:51 PM
Stop all executions. Problem solved.
Except for child molesters. I think if there is plenty of evidence, it should be immediately carried out in these cases... with a ball bat.
I'd be in favor of getting rid of the death penalty. Or, better yet, save it as a threat just for leverage and for really special occasions.
Quote from: custosnox on May 10, 2012, 01:30:43 AM
I've been hit a few times by 110 and 220, and I found it to be an interesting sensation. I know, I'm sick, but what can I say, I want to make sure I go out with a show
110 is just a diversion. 220 is two 110s to ground - usually you touch one or the other - most people don't go between the two, but still a diversion. 480 causes real pain - and even that is usually phase to ground so really only 277v.
Do you test your 9v batteries with the tip of your tongue?
Quote from: guido911 on May 09, 2012, 11:26:51 PM
Stop all executions. Problem solved.
Agreed. I like problem solving, not extending.
Quote from: Ed W on May 09, 2012, 10:09:46 PM
Due to a shortage of drugs, state correctional officials want to bring back the electric chair and the firing squad for executions. The pharmaceuticals companies are refusing to sell the drugs for executions.
This isn't a problem, this is an opportunity for a local company to step in to manufacture a new product and serve a market.
Quote from: DTowner on May 10, 2012, 10:21:28 AM
This isn't a problem, this is an opportunity for a local company to step in to manufacture a new product and serve a market.
Oklahoma could classify death row inmates as livestock. This would solve issues with the pharma companies and their issues with euthanizing humans.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 10, 2012, 12:36:19 AM
Agreed. It's a useless penalty. If it were a real deterrent murder rates would be almost nil.
Secondly, crapital punishment and death row goes against everything I believe as a fiscal conservative.
I completely agree.
Ironic that it also goes against everything I believe in as a "flaming liberal", but for the same reasons you pointed out.
One of the big reasons I hear and read to get rid of death penalty is because the convicted runs up the cost with appeals. Does anyone really believe that a non-death penalty convict is gonna just sit there with NO appeals?? Another one of those topics where there still, amazingly enough, is not enough clear information to say.
That aside, I think the death penalty should be put on at least a long term hold, if for no other reason than the fact the so many convicted have been shown to have been wrongly convicted. And Texas especially should be made to wait given their miserable record on the application of DP, particularly when DNA has proven the lack of guilt (not to be confused with innocence...).
Quote from: DTowner on May 10, 2012, 10:21:28 AM
This isn't a problem, this is an opportunity for a local company to step in to manufacture a new product and serve a market.
Bama Pie?
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on May 10, 2012, 01:58:45 PM
One of the big reasons I hear and read to get rid of death penalty is because the convicted runs up the cost with appeals. Does anyone really believe that a non-death penalty convict is gonna just sit there with NO appeals?? Another one of those topics where there still, amazingly enough, is not enough clear information to say.
That aside, I think the death penalty should be put on at least a long term hold, if for no other reason than the fact the so many convicted have been shown to have been wrongly convicted. And Texas especially should be made to wait given their miserable record on the application of DP, particularly when DNA has proven the lack of guilt (not to be confused with innocence...).
There's plenty of clear information. Death row inmates have access to state-paid-for attorney throughout the appellate process. It's on a lifer's own tab if he/she wants to file appeal after appeal. Aside from that, the housing costs for inmates on death row is significantly higher as well due to single-celling and tighter security measures.
If you want an interesting non-fiction inside look at the issue, especially as it relates to Oklahoma, get a copy of John Grisham's "An Innocent Man." That was the first non-fiction he ever did. Changed my mind on the death penalty 100%.
Quote from: Townsend on May 10, 2012, 10:24:02 AM
Oklahoma could classify death row inmates as livestock. This would solve issues with the pharma companies and their issues with euthanizing humans.
(http://www.onetip.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Deep-Thoughts-to-Ponder-For-Your-Facebook-Wall.jpg)
Quote from: Conan71 on May 10, 2012, 12:36:19 AM
Agreed. It's a useless penalty. If it were a real deterrent murder rates would be almost nil.
Secondly, crapital punishment and death row goes against everything I believe as a fiscal conservative.
Is it meant to serve as a deterrent or to serve "justice"?
Quote from: BKDotCom on May 10, 2012, 03:57:05 PM
Is it meant to serve as a deterrent or to serve "justice"?
Both.
The usual alternative to the death penalty - life without parol - also has a lot of downside in costs and behavior issues. I'm sure it's been done, but I've not seen any studies on a true comparison of costs between the two systems. I suspect the total costs are not that much different.
Quote from: Townsend on May 10, 2012, 10:24:02 AM
Oklahoma could classify death row inmates as livestock. This would solve issues with the pharma companies and their issues with euthanizing humans.
That's awesome! Made me laugh!
Maybe the pharm companies are afraid they might end up recipients of their own product? Or there's just too much money to be made in keeping them alive.;)
Quote from: guido911 on May 09, 2012, 11:26:51 PM
Stop all executions. Problem solved.
Guido and I may not agree on much, but on this we're in accord. I watched something on television about a federal supermax prison with modular concrete cells that measure 6'x8' and have walls so thick they're effectively soundproof. The prospect of spending a lifetime inside one is unthinkable to us. Sensory deprivation would result in eventual insanity. And I think it's more suitable than a death sentence.
Quote from: DTowner on May 10, 2012, 04:16:18 PM
I'm sure it's been done, but I've not seen any studies on a true comparison of costs between the two systems. I suspect the total costs are not that much different.
You are correct, it has been done. You are incorrect in that the total costs are quite different. Death row is freakin' expensive.
Personally, I think that if we're handing out sentences of life without parole it's nearly as much of a screw up on our (collective) part as the criminal's, and we should be ashamed that we failed to provide someone the help they needed to keep themselves out of that situation or the support they needed as a child to keep themselves out of a life of crime to begin with. Not because I think we're
responsible for everyone's actions, which would be pretty dumb, but because imprisoning people at all is so damn expensive we should use the techniques at our disposal to prevent crime before it gets started.
Instead, we cut education funding in favor of prisons and law enforcement year after year and we don't even spend the education money we have effectively. Our lust for punishment extends even to children who have never had a good role model in their life and don't have the tools to deal with the bullshit they have to deal with day in and day out. God forbid we lend an ear instead of a whip and give them the care and understanding they deserve.
Instead, we get elementary school kids in largely forgotten neighborhoods joining gangs looking for the approval and camaraderie they fail to get from parents, teachers, school administrators, and everyone else.
Also, I think Supermax is tantamount to torture, but if a prisoner repeatedly attempts to commit violence upon others, we have to do something. Of course, once again, that problem could probably be helped out in a big way by throwing out the corrupt prison administrators and largely corrupt guards who look the other way as prisoners assault, rape, deal drugs, and whatever else in exchange for some..consideration.
Quote from: nathanm on May 10, 2012, 05:45:46 PM
You are correct, it has been done. You are incorrect in that the total costs are quite different. Death row is freakin' expensive.
Personally, I think that if we're handing out sentences of life without parole it's nearly as much of a screw up on our (collective) part as the criminal's, and we should be ashamed that we failed to provide someone the help they needed to keep themselves out of that situation or the support they needed as a child to keep themselves out of a life of crime to begin with. Not because I think we're responsible for everyone's actions, which would be pretty dumb, but because imprisoning people at all is so damn expensive we should use the techniques at our disposal to prevent crime before it gets started.
Instead, we cut education funding in favor of prisons and law enforcement year after year and we don't even spend the education money we have effectively. Our lust for punishment extends even to children who have never had a good role model in their life and don't have the tools to deal with the bullshit they have to deal with day in and day out. God forbid we lend an ear instead of a whip and give them the care and understanding they deserve.
Instead, we get elementary school kids in largely forgotten neighborhoods joining gangs looking for the approval and camaraderie they fail to get from parents, teachers, school administrators, and everyone else.
Also, I think Supermax is tantamount to torture, but if a prisoner repeatedly attempts to commit violence upon others, we have to do something. Of course, once again, that problem could probably be helped out in a big way by throwing out the corrupt prison administrators and largely corrupt guards who look the other way as prisoners assault, rape, deal drugs, and whatever else in exchange for some..consideration.
Many people sitting on death row and serving life or life without parole sentences were adjudicated multiple times prior to ending up in the big house for good. Some people simply cannot be rehabilitated and in those cases, prison serves to protect the rest of society from them. You simply cannot layoff the blame for sociopathic and psychopathic behavior on "corrupt" guards and administrators. The only way you can prevent such things from happening would be solitary confinement for all prisoners 24/7 and I believe the Constitution has something to say about cruel & unusual punishment.
Quote from: AquaMan on May 10, 2012, 09:43:13 AM
Agreed. I like problem solving, not extending.
As long as we can keep death by incarceration I'm happy.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 11, 2012, 10:05:52 AM
You simply cannot layoff the blame for sociopathic and psychopathic behavior on "corrupt" guards and administrators. The only way you can prevent such things from happening would be solitary confinement for all prisoners 24/7
I can and I did. Obviously, some segment of the prison population will be incorrigible. The rest are largely forced to become that way to survive because we put them in a place with lots of "rules" but almost no
rules. Everybody knows this stuff is going on and they allow it to happen, if not being the one that smuggles in the drugs in the first place. This undermines respect for their authority, which makes it even more difficult to keep the prisoners under control.
The only way to gain real compliance is to foster respect, not through beatings or punishment (or coddling, for that matter), but through being seen as fair and consistent. As I said earlier, there will still be folks who insist on being anti-social even when they're in a reasonably decent environment. That's who Supermax is nominally for.
Quote from: nathanm on May 11, 2012, 01:18:01 PM
I can and I did. Obviously, some segment of the prison population will be incorrigible. The rest are largely forced to become that way to survive because we put them in a place with lots of "rules" but almost no rules. Everybody knows this stuff is going on and they allow it to happen, if not being the one that smuggles in the drugs in the first place. This undermines respect for their authority, which makes it even more difficult to keep the prisoners under control.
The only way to gain real compliance is to foster respect, not through beatings or punishment (or coddling, for that matter), but through being seen as fair and consistent. As I said earlier, there will still be folks who insist on being anti-social even when they're in a reasonably decent environment. That's who Supermax is nominally for.
You obviously don't know anything about prison life outside of "Scared Straight" or "Oz" do you?
Quote from: Conan71 on May 11, 2012, 01:49:50 PM
You obviously don't know anything about prison life outside of "Scared Straight" or "Oz" do you?
Other than studies, news reports, and talking to people who have been in prison no, I have no personal experience with the subject.