The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Not At My Table - Political Discussions => National & International Politics => Topic started by: Gaspar on April 09, 2012, 10:05:16 AM

Title: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 09, 2012, 10:05:16 AM
It looks like the president has assembled a new staff at his campaign headquarters in Chicago.
http://barackobama.tumblr.com/post/20543413021/chicago-hq-2011-versus-2012-what-a-difference-a

They look young and energetic!
(http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/barackobama/20543413021/2/tumblr_m20wzsnXov1qzhkvh)

Good group shot.  Lots of bright faces.
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Conan71 on April 09, 2012, 10:32:52 AM
Hey, look! He gave occupiers jobs!
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 09, 2012, 10:44:33 AM
These look like smart kids.  That's in the Prudential building over by Grant Park in Chicago.  Great location.  Nice views and close to public transportation.  Very diverse community in that area.



Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 09, 2012, 12:40:23 PM
You know what is rather odd. . .

The president signed an executive order back in August that requires the federal government to embrace a more diverse employee base that better represents the community at large. 

In a city like Chicago that is almost 40% African American (even greater in the inner-city where this office is located), and boasts an unemployment rate for African Americans that is almost double that of unemployment for the white population, one would expect to find a far more diverse campaign staff???

I suppose that because this is not an official government agency, the President is free to hire whomever he wishes.  Perhaps these employees were hired for their skills and background instead of any racial or cultural quotas.  It's just a little disturbing that in a community that is nearly 40% African American there wouldn't be a more representative staff, if for nothing more than to lead by example.

Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: AquaMan on April 09, 2012, 12:55:30 PM
Apparently you are satisfied that the photo shows all the workers rather than cropped, you did a background check to see what heritage they possess, have a link to show the 40% reference and we are to believe that you only want to make note of young fresh faces in a non-perjorative way.

Or, put another way, all black people are easily recognized, Native Americans, Asians and Latinos don't count in diversity and photos never misrepresent as long as they are saying what you want them to say.

Do you intentionally set up these negative, cynical inferences or does it just come naturally? Why do I ask questions I know the answer to?
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Conan71 on April 09, 2012, 12:59:35 PM
If he had a son, he'd look like Trayvon.  Just not any campaign employees who do, eh?

That is really interesting there are not more black people on staff (I only see one person in the back who might be black), as you said, for no other reason than the ethnic and racial make-up of Chicago.  Also seems to be far more men than women.
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 09, 2012, 01:17:38 PM
Quote from: AquaMan on April 09, 2012, 12:55:30 PM
Apparently you are satisfied that the photo shows all the workers rather than cropped, you did a background check to see what heritage they possess, have a link to show the 40% reference and we are to believe that you only want to make note of young fresh faces in a non-perjorative way.

Or, put another way, all black people are easily recognized, Native Americans, Asians and Latinos don't count in diversity and photos never misrepresent as long as they are saying what you want them to say.

Do you intentionally set up these negative, cynical inferences or does it just come naturally? Why do I ask questions I know the answer to?

Perhaps you are right.  I have however spent a great deal of time in Chicago.  There are quite a few African Americans there that indeed look African American, so I am reasonably confident that a representative sample of the employee base in this office would include a few.

These photos were posted by the Obama campaign, so one would assume that there would be an effort, as with any political campaign, to offer a representative sample of ethnic diversity within the campaign office.  Perhaps I assume too much?

According to census numbers the African American population in Chicago sits at 36.77%   http://chicago.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm  http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/17/1714000.html
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: RecycleMichael on April 09, 2012, 01:48:49 PM
Race wasn't the first thing I saw in the picture.

It was the lack of chairs. How do they expect those people to work while sitting on the floor?

Secondly, the hands aren't clapping in sync. When I clap along to a song, I try to stay on beat. I guess it is true that white people have no rhythm.
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: we vs us on April 09, 2012, 02:03:18 PM
Wow.  Silliness. 

Extrapolating the racial makeup of Obama's re-election team from a single promotional photo is just ludicrous.  There's simply no way any of us know enough about the circumstances of the photo, or how it's been manipulated, or what the rest of the room looks like, or how his entire organization is composed, or anything at all past what those 50 or so people look like.  In other words -- let's rely on facts, shall we?  Rather than Fox News style idiocy. 

Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Conan71 on April 09, 2012, 02:06:56 PM
Quote from: we vs us on April 09, 2012, 02:03:18 PM
Wow.  Silliness. 

Extrapolating the racial makeup of Obama's re-election team from a single promotional photo is just ludicrous.  There's simply no way any of us know enough about the circumstances of the photo, or how it's been manipulated, or what the rest of the room looks like, or how his entire organization is composed, or anything at all past what those 50 or so people look like.  In other words -- let's rely on facts, shall we?  Rather than Fox News style idiocy. 



Manipulated?  Did you click the link? It comes from a feed from the Obama campaign and shows how much the office has changed in a year from an empty space to one filled with campaign workers.
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 09, 2012, 02:08:33 PM
Quote from: we vs us on April 09, 2012, 02:03:18 PM
Wow.  Silliness. 

Extrapolating the racial makeup of Obama's re-election team from a single promotional photo is just ludicrous.  There's simply no way any of us know enough about the circumstances of the photo, or how it's been manipulated, or what the rest of the room looks like, or how his entire organization is composed, or anything at all past what those 50 or so people look like.  In other words -- let's rely on facts, shall we?  Rather than Fox News style idiocy. 



Ok.  I'll accept that explanation.  

As we move forward, I expect that this same line of reasoning will be applied to images from the campaigns of other candidates, correct?

:)
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 09, 2012, 02:09:48 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on April 09, 2012, 02:06:56 PM
Manipulated?  Did you click the link? It comes from a feed from the Obama campaign and shows how much the office has changed in a year from an empty space to one filled with campaign workers.

I expect we will see the images removed in the next few days.  ;)
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Teatownclown on April 09, 2012, 05:05:14 PM
What waterman said...and RM....

you other boys have nothing better to do? No wonder the righties immerse themselves in old issues and false equivalencies. It's lazy not to look forward and come up with progressive ideas. We know RM exemplifies that type of positiveness.

You two other goobers try to convince us that there's a better way and why there's a better way. Otherwise, keep your prejudices and your discriminatory rants to yourselves.
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Ed W on April 09, 2012, 05:10:54 PM
I like the photo.  It has great depth of field given the limitations of indoor light.  It's a high resolution photo, probably taken with a pro-level DSLR with a full size sensor.  

As for the diversity angle, you do know that this is only one office in one part of one city, don't you?  And many of these people are very likely to be unpaid interns.  That means they have some financial support other than an everyday job.  Think mom-and-dad, trust funds, or independent wealth. It would be interesting to find out the details rather than speculate or engage in not-too-subtle innuendo.
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: azbadpuppy on April 09, 2012, 07:35:20 PM
Quote from: Gaspar on April 09, 2012, 12:40:23 PM
In a city like Chicago that is almost 40% African American (even greater in the inner-city where this office is located), and boasts an unemployment rate for African Americans that is almost double that of unemployment for the white population, one would expect to find a far more diverse campaign staff???

Although I find this topic instigative and rather pointless, I have to comment that you are wrong to suggest that where this office is located is ethnically or economically diverse. This is The Loop: a predominantly white and wealthy inner city neighborhood. Average house prices are hovering somewhere in the million dollar range I would wager. If this office was located in Hyde Park or one of the more heavily African American neighborhoods there might be a tad bit more credence to your observation. Also, the Obama campaign HQ has about 700 people on staff. This photo shows about 80 or so, barely a 10% representation.

And actually, the photo depicts quite a bit of "diversity" given your argument of neighborhood demographics, or at least as much as a single candid photo can. Apparently its just not the right type?
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: azbadpuppy on April 09, 2012, 07:46:44 PM
Quote from: we vs us on April 09, 2012, 02:03:18 PM
Wow.  Silliness. 

Extrapolating the racial makeup of Obama's re-election team from a single promotional photo is just ludicrous.  There's simply no way any of us know enough about the circumstances of the photo, or how it's been manipulated, or what the rest of the room looks like, or how his entire organization is composed, or anything at all past what those 50 or so people look like.  In other words -- let's rely on facts, shall we?  Rather than Fox News style idiocy. 



The story was first "reported" by the Free Beacon, who make the guys over at Fox News look like flaming liberals.
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 10, 2012, 06:11:37 AM
Quote from: Ed W on April 09, 2012, 05:10:54 PM
I like the photo.  It has great depth of field given the limitations of indoor light.  It's a high resolution photo, probably taken with a pro-level DSLR with a full size sensor.  

As for the diversity angle, you do know that this is only one office in one part of one city, don't you?  And many of these people are very likely to be unpaid interns.  That means they have some financial support other than an everyday job.  Think mom-and-dad, trust funds, or independent wealth. It would be interesting to find out the details rather than speculate or engage in not-too-subtle innuendo.

That's not a campaign office.  It's the 2012 Campaign Headquarters.  You are right, it's a great shot.  I have a friend in Chicago (also an Obamabot) who was a little upset about this.  He's going to find out the employee count at this office.
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 10, 2012, 06:34:07 AM
Quote from: azbadpuppy on April 09, 2012, 07:35:20 PM
Although I find this topic instigative and rather pointless, I have to comment that you are wrong to suggest that where this office is located is ethnically or economically diverse. This is The Loop: a predominantly white and wealthy inner city neighborhood. Average house prices are hovering somewhere in the million dollar range I would wager. If this office was located in Hyde Park or one of the more heavily African American neighborhoods there might be a tad bit more credence to your observation. Also, the Obama campaign HQ has about 700 people on staff. This photo shows about 80 or so, barely a 10% representation.

And actually, the photo depicts quite a bit of "diversity" given your argument of neighborhood demographics, or at least as much as a single candid photo can. Apparently its just not the right type?

That's good to know.  I'm sure those same demographic factors will be taken into account with the analysis of other campaigns, offices and staff makup.  Probably very difficult to assemble a diverse staff in the North Loop.  I'll pull a demographic map so we can draw our own conclusions, but you are probably right, folks in Chicago probably don't commute a mile or more to work. 
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Conan71 on April 10, 2012, 08:43:18 AM
Quote from: azbadpuppy on April 09, 2012, 07:35:20 PM
Although I find this topic instigative and rather pointless, I have to comment that you are wrong to suggest that where this office is located is ethnically or economically diverse. This is The Loop: a predominantly white and wealthy inner city neighborhood. Average house prices are hovering somewhere in the million dollar range I would wager. If this office was located in Hyde Park or one of the more heavily African American neighborhoods there might be a tad bit more credence to your observation. Also, the Obama campaign HQ has about 700 people on staff. This photo shows about 80 or so, barely a 10% representation.

And actually, the photo depicts quite a bit of "diversity" given your argument of neighborhood demographics, or at least as much as a single candid photo can. Apparently its just not the right type?

Sounds like a really exclusive area which seems to exclude minorities, eh?
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: azbadpuppy on April 10, 2012, 09:35:01 AM
Quote from: Conan71 on April 10, 2012, 08:43:18 AM
Sounds like a really exclusive area which seems to exclude minorities, eh?

Exclusive only by your net worth. After all, Oprah lives nearby.

Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Conan71 on April 10, 2012, 09:42:03 AM
Quote from: azbadpuppy on April 10, 2012, 09:35:01 AM
Exclusive only by your net worth. After all, Oprah lives nearby.



We need more social justice  ;)
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 10, 2012, 09:55:26 AM
Quote from: Conan71 on April 10, 2012, 08:43:18 AM
Sounds like a really exclusive area which seems to exclude minorities, eh?

Well of course.  For African Americans to work there they would have to trek 2.25 miles or take the green line from the Ashland station (Patrick Sullivan apartments) for a 8 minute bus ride.  Of course we know that African Americans only live in the projects, right?

You've got to be kidding me!  Chicago is one of the most diverse cities in the country, and to imply that his staff is mostly white just because he chose to locate it in an affluent commercial area is ridiculous, and frankly a bit racist.  

I've seen the same articles mentioning that the office employees 700 people (as azbadpuppy mentions), and that the campaign leased the whole floor.  The total sq/ft for each floor of that building is 23,200sf according to loopnet http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16498515/130-East-Randolph-Street-Chicago-IL/ .  That means if you had no desks, no conference rooms, no bathrooms, no offices, no hallways, no mechanical areas, and no common areas, each employee would have 33sf.  If you did add this basic amenities, employees would end up with perhaps 20sf each. That would make it a frightful example of a white sweat shop, and I just can't believe that the Obama campaign would be running a sweat shop, no matter the degree of diversity or lack thereof.

Now if you throw in a Fire Marshall or two, and the concept of egress from a building built in the 50s, I'm willing to bet that an upper floor with only 23,200sf would carry a far smaller maximum capacity than 700.




Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: azbadpuppy on April 10, 2012, 09:56:16 AM
Quote from: Gaspar on April 10, 2012, 06:34:07 AM
I'm sure those same demographic factors will be taken into account with the analysis of other campaigns, offices and staff makup.

Wow, I hope not. It's a pointless argument, and a racist one besides. I cannot believe people are actually looking at this photo and trying to decide what ethnicity those people are. Just because there arent the obvious stereotypical "blackface" people in this one particular photo that shows less than 10% of the staff , somehow Obama is to blame for not hiring an ethnically diverse people? WOW. There's so many different shades of skin color, hair color, eye color, etc. in America. That's the beauty of it. It should be a non issue. It's those that make it an issue I find disturbing.

Are these people holding racist signs, committing hate crimes, or calling out their rivals using derogatory, bigoted, inflammatory language? Oops, no. Sorry wrong photo. They are just a group of diverse Americans who are eager to support what matters to them. Peroid.

People need to stop trying to justify the bad behavior of one group by trying to vilify another, claiming some sort of false parity.

I am certain there are other, more important matters to discuss.
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: azbadpuppy on April 10, 2012, 10:05:59 AM
Quote from: Gaspar on April 10, 2012, 09:55:26 AM
Well of course.  For African Americans to work there they would have to trek 2.25 miles or take the green line from the Ashland station (Patrick Sullivan apartments) for a 8 minute bus ride.  Of course we know that African Americans only live in the projects, right?

You've got to be kidding me!  Chicago is one of the most diverse cities in the country, and to imply that his staff is mostly white just because he chose to locate it in an affluent commercial area is ridiculous, and frankly a bit racist.  

No, you said the neighborhood was one of the most diverse in the city. Not true.

Chicago is very diverse, as a whole city, but like most American cities (Tulsa included), it is racially segregated. Sad reality of life in America.

Your original argument about the location of the office in relation to the so-called lack of ethnic diversity of its work force made no sense and you were obviously just trying to stir the pot.
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 10, 2012, 10:59:36 AM
Quote from: azbadpuppy on April 10, 2012, 10:05:59 AM
No, you said the neighborhood was one of the most diverse in the city. Not true.

Chicago is very diverse, as a whole city, but like most American cities (Tulsa included), it is racially segregated. Sad reality of life in America.

Your original argument about the location of the office in relation to the so-called lack of ethnic diversity of its work force made no sense and you were obviously just trying to stir the pot.

Dang!  I just can't seem to find that quote by me.  I said that Chicago was one of the most diverse cities in the country, so unless you are arguing with yourself, I think we can both agree that diversity should not be encapsulated in a single zip code.

Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: azbadpuppy on April 10, 2012, 11:32:08 AM
Quote from: Gaspar on April 10, 2012, 10:59:36 AM
Dang!  I just can't seem to find that quote by me.  I said that Chicago was one of the most diverse cities in the country, so unless you are arguing with yourself, I think we can both agree that diversity should not be encapsulated in a single zip code.

Here's one:

Quote from: Gaspar on April 09, 2012, 10:44:33 AM
These look like smart kids.  That's in the Prudential building over by Grant Park in Chicago.  Great location.  Nice views and close to public transportation.  Very diverse community in that area.

And another:

Quote from: Gaspar on April 09, 2012, 12:40:23 PM
In a city like Chicago that is almost 40% African American (even greater in the inner-city where this office is located)

And zip codes are always used to encapsulate ethnic, and economic diversity.

Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 10, 2012, 01:05:36 PM
Quote from: azbadpuppy on April 10, 2012, 11:32:08 AM


And zip codes are always used to encapsulate ethnic, and economic diversity.



Well that's awesome then because this zip code only covers a tiny swath of the city.  60601 mostly covers residences out on the harbor, and a residential population of only 5,000 folks, since it's a mostly commercial area.  Somehow this leads me to believe that perhaps, just perhaps, people from other zip codes may be working in this office.

Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: DolfanBob on April 10, 2012, 01:26:15 PM
So Rick is done and it looks like good ol Mitt vs Barack in November.
Should be a good PPV bout.
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 10, 2012, 01:30:33 PM
Oh Yey, Rick learned math!
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Ed W on April 10, 2012, 07:55:22 PM
Apropos of oh-so-very-little:


(http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/12-1-11-romney-ads/11120886-1-eng-US/12-1-11-Romney-Ads_full_600.jpg)

And from Woody Allen's "Bananas":

Mellish: l move for a mistrial. There's not a single homosexual on that jury.

Judge: Yes, there is.

Mellish: Really? Which one?  ls it the big guy at the end?

Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 19, 2012, 10:14:37 AM
Some real good has come of this.  The Obama campaign is now actively seeking African American applicants to join the cause, and they need them fast!

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/75323.html

President Barack Obama's team is looking to hire more African-Americans, a search that has stirred a debate among black Democrats about Obama's record on diversity and its implications for his reelection.

Stefanie Brown, director of the campaign's African American Vote program, wrote in an "urgent" March 21 email to contacts in the black community that "The Obama for America campaign is in the process of really staffing up in states around the country, and I need your help to find qualified, African American candidates for some of these positions." The email, a copy of which was obtained by POLITICO, notes that "this is a fast moving process and your (quick) support is greatly appreciated."At Monday's meeting, Angela Rye, executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus, asked two White House personnel officials, Priority Placement Director Ryan Ramsey and Special Assistant to the President for Presidential Personnel Teresa Chaurand, for statistics on diversity within the ranks of government officials appointed by the president, according to a source in the room. The White House officials responded by saying they don't keep that data, the source said.
White House spokesman Eric Schultz declined to comment on the exchange or to provide statistics on the racial and ethnic breakdown of the president's appointees.




Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Teatownclown on April 19, 2012, 12:44:29 PM
Quote from: Gaspar on April 19, 2012, 10:14:37 AM
Some real good has come of this.  The Obama campaign is now actively seeking African American applicants to join the cause, and they need them fast!

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/75323.html

President Barack Obama's team is looking to hire more African-Americans, a search that has stirred a debate among black Democrats about Obama's record on diversity and its implications for his reelection.

Stefanie Brown, director of the campaign's African American Vote program, wrote in an "urgent" March 21 email to contacts in the black community that "The Obama for America campaign is in the process of really staffing up in states around the country, and I need your help to find qualified, African American candidates for some of these positions." The email, a copy of which was obtained by POLITICO, notes that "this is a fast moving process and your (quick) support is greatly appreciated."At Monday's meeting, Angela Rye, executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus, asked two White House personnel officials, Priority Placement Director Ryan Ramsey and Special Assistant to the President for Presidential Personnel Teresa Chaurand, for statistics on diversity within the ranks of government officials appointed by the president, according to a source in the room. The White House officials responded by saying they don't keep that data, the source said.
White House spokesman Eric Schultz declined to comment on the exchange or to provide statistics on the racial and ethnic breakdown of the president's appointees.






The last thingy I want to know is where you werk. But I would like to know the % of blacks and women who are co employees....
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: DolfanBob on April 19, 2012, 01:23:04 PM
I'm going to take it that these are volunteer positions.
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 19, 2012, 01:31:23 PM
Quote from: Teatownclown on April 19, 2012, 12:44:29 PM
The last thingy I want to know is where you werk. But I would like to know the % of blacks and women who are co employees....

60% women (including one of the owners). 6% Korean, 6% black, 6% Pilipino, 13.3% American Indian, and the remainder are pink, light tan, dark tan, and some have varying degrees of facial hair.

In the other business that I am a partner in we are 25% black.

I couldn't care less about the color of a person's skin, and I typically find that same philosophy with most employers.  Of course I've never signed an executive order forcing people to hire other people based on skin color.  I suppose if I had, I would try to exemplify that behavior in the hiring of my own staff.

Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Teatownclown on April 19, 2012, 01:48:13 PM
Ok...I'm impressed. Not by you, but by the company you keep.  ;)
Title: Re: Obama Presidential Campaign Official Kick-off
Post by: Gaspar on April 19, 2012, 01:51:49 PM
Quote from: Teatownclown on April 19, 2012, 01:48:13 PM
Ok...I'm impressed. Not by you, but by the company you keep.  ;)

I'm impressed by you because the company I keep impresses you.  They impress me too. 

The finest folks in the world!