This is for all you Maher haters!
Meh, new verse to an old song.
Quote from: dbacks fan on March 25, 2012, 01:39:07 AM
Meh, new verse to an old song.
Problem is though, most residents of this state don't see it that way. Or they get offended if you point stuff like that out.
Quote from: Hoss on March 25, 2012, 02:38:23 AM
Problem is though, most residents of this state don't see it that way. Or they get offended if you point stuff like that out.
In the last 14 years living in Arizona and now for the last 9 months here in Oregon I've heard all the jokes, but the interesting thing is, people that I have met that spent any real time in OK have all said in one way or another, "How come the people in OK, while friendly, are so backwards in their thinking?" and the only thing I can tell them is that a lot of people never really leave the state. They may go places on vacation or to school, but they never leave, and some of those that do leave, never really leave the mentallity. For me, growing up, I learned there was more to life and the world than where I was born, and while I will always be a Tulsan by birth, there is more than what's under the buckle. The other thing I tell people is that there seems to be a majority of closed minded people that don't grow out of the enviroment they were brought up in. I have a brother that spent most of his life after the age of four (other than when he was in Germany as US Army NATO in the early 70's) has spent his entire life in OK and doesn't understand my lack of desire to move back. I also have to add that to him nothing in Tulsa north of 71st is worth going to or living in, to him Cherry Street and downtown is nothing but ghetto, and he may go downtown for a drillers game, or an Oiler game, he can't wait to leave after the game is over. I told him that if I found a job and a place to live downtown I would really think about it, and he told me I was stupid to live anywhere other than around where he lives, near 151st and Yale.
The link has been terminated.
I can identify Dback. I am a native Tulsan who has spent my whole life (not far from your age) in Oklahoma. Yet, I do not embrace the weirdness, the religiousity, the backwards nature of the state. i'm part of the 30% that struggles against the stream here. I credit that to parents who insisted on the purchase of an expensive set of Encylopedia Brittanica when I was in first grade, faith in public education, an arm's reach relationship with religion and a dedicated effort to make sure that what they had learned as youths during the depression, WWII and McCarthyism was not squandered as they fought to leave lower economic status. To aspire to higher economic status while maintaining one's integrity is not an easy thing.
They could have led a much more prosperous life had they kicked us out early rather than putting all four of us through college on a painting contractor's earnings, and occasionally subsidizing us as we made our way. Both parent and children were enriched by their sacrifices.
Now, I truly regret having stayed here to fight against entrenched, implacable attitudes about unions, religions, races, sex, education, lifestyle, oil, morals etc. It makes me question my courage. However, it is the struggle against these odds to reconcile what my parents planned for me versus what staying here has limited me to, that has forged the personalities of my children. The bigger picture is that they are better rounded, better educated, more insightful and more aware of the strangenous of this state and thus more likely to change it, or leave here, than I ever was.
Remember that out of the crucible of repression and oppression comes greatness. If so we are destined to create some real greatness here if nowhere else, at least in providing humor for everyone else.
I walked away and realized how preachy, narcissistic and indulgent that last post was. Too late now.
We went to Target in Owasso last Friday to pick up a gift that wasn't available here in Tulsa. That alone was weird as I am used to Tulsa being the center of life in this area. Boy, was I stunned. Owasso has everything a modern city would be expected to offer in consumerism and its all spankin' new. All the latest chain restaurants, big box retailers, middle and small box retailers. Everything. There is no reason to go to Tulsa proper except for: access to a river and its miles of paths, a well paying job near the CBD, the Zoo, The Aquarium, LaFortune Park, Woodward Park or entertainment activities downtown. The latter just can't seem to be replicated successfully in the burbs. But the others can be.
The point is that if you are raised in this squeaky clean, new consumer environment it shapes your view of the world. You begin to consider anything different than that as dangerous, lower quality, dirty and inferior. And that holds for your politics, your religion and your culture. I never saw a single scraggly, homeless, drunk, beggar, druggie, low brow the whole time we drove. Groups are not visible on the streets. And the driving is the artery for this lifestyle. 70mph, dogging, huge SUV's and nothing rolling that's older than the tenure of its car loan installment period.
It works both ways of course. My upbringing was within a mile of downtown and I am pretty uncomfortable outside of the sight of my beloved downtown skyline. I thrive on the differences of culture, and am passionate about history and change. I looked at my wife and said, "Have we made a mistake by not living this perfect existence?" This dichotomy of life around cities is not limited to Tulsa. It is shaping all the new growth areas of the South and Southwest.
I grew up in a really small town in north central Oklahoma and since college in Stillwater, I've lived in NYC, Dallas, Tulsa & Bartlesville. Let me just say that all have their issues. the thing I notice is that there is always a level of group think. Not every single person but in general it holds. It varies from city to city, state to state. Oklahoma has it's issues, but I can say without a doubt that we are no worse off than anywhere else in reality.
Perception wise is another story. OK does have a negative perception outside our borders. But generally speaking, once people actually experience the state/cities, they change their tune. I mean if it was that bad, wouldn't we have a net negative migration as opposed to the positive one we are experiencing now?
In this case I don't think the perception of the state and the reality are in line at all. But it is easy to pick on Oklahoma. No one is there to correct any of these misconceptions. And they are not going to pick on their own states of California or New York, but trust me there are plenty of low hanging fruit in both.
Quote from: AquaMan on March 25, 2012, 09:32:08 AM
I credit that to parents who insisted on the purchase of an expensive set of Encylopedia Brittanica when I was in first grade,
Ah ha! A closet rich guy. We had the Funk & Wagnell's (yes it was real) purchased one volume at a time from the grocery store. A new volume each week as my mom remembers it. Our bookcase presently has a newer version with a 1975 Copyright date. Encyclopedia Brittanica was available at the Township Library. (Suburban Phila, PA)
Quote from: Red Arrow on March 25, 2012, 10:31:45 AM
Ah ha! A closet rich guy. We had the Funk & Wagnell's (yes it was real) purchased one volume at a time from the grocery store. A new volume each week as my mom remembers it. Our bookcase presently has a newer version with a 1975 Copyright date. Encyclopedia Brittanica was available at the Township Library. (Suburban Phila, PA)
What great marketing those guys had! They bought the set from a door to door salesman and I remember dad sitting on the living room floor going over all the books with the salesman. Mom also bought updates at the Safeway with an annual each year. During long, hot summers I would sit across from the fan forced water cooler (what did they call those things?) and hungrily read about all the different places, cultures, science and history. When I look back and remember that it cost them $300 and he was lucky to bring home $7500 a year it makes me realize what a premium they put on giving us a better education than they had. I think we stopped at about 1972.
Erfalf, the more you travel the more you see we all share alot of weaknesses. However, its the image our leaders give us that reflects on a state. You expect that those in charge must be the cream of the populace to rise to the top leadership in a state. Where a state spends their money is also pretty indicative of its personality. The roads, bridges, parks, education and highway rest stops in Minnesota are well designed and maintained (except for the old I-35 bridge that dropped into the Mississippi). When they see our highway rest stops (two trees and some picnic tables), or they think Inhofe is the best OK can do, then people think the rest of the state must be in a world of hurt.
http://ok4rj.org/2012/03/rodeo-roundup-quit-yer-oklahoma-bashing/ (http://ok4rj.org/2012/03/rodeo-roundup-quit-yer-oklahoma-bashing/)
A fun article on the subject of oklahoma bashing that I really love.
Quote from: AquaMan on March 25, 2012, 01:01:04 PM
fan forced water cooler (what did they call those things?)
Are you thinking of Swamp Coolers / Evaporative Coolers?
Quote from: AquaMan on March 25, 2012, 01:01:04 PMforced water cooler (what did they call those things?)
You mean a swamp cooler? My great aunt from Fayetteville used one until she died in the mid 90s. Not that it was really necessary up on Mt. Sequoyah. It's amazing what even a couple hundred feet of elevation will get you. It's also amazing how that part of Fayetteville has changed in the last 30 years. In the early 80s, it was almost all ramshackle houses built in the 30s and 40s. By the early 90s, people had started building big fancy houses. Now it's largely big fancy houses with only a small bit of the old stock remaining.
As far as migration to Oklahoma is concerned, you can draw your own conclusions (http://www.forbes.com/special-report/2011/migration.html).
There's a demographic in Oklahoma composed of people who are poorly educated, determined to remain that way, and proud of it. There's more than a little xenophobia, too. It's not uncommon for the Bible to come up in casual conversation, just as there's the occasional racist comment tossed in just as casually.
Despite all that, Will Rogers was speaking the truth when he said that Oklahomans are open, talkative, and friendly, and that people from other countries think that's what all Americans are like. The wrenching disconnect between the two is difficult to fathom.
My in-laws came here expecting to find nothing but dirt streets. My bro-in-law thought everyone would be driving enormous 4WD trucks everyday. As far as they knew, Oklahoma was still Indian Territory.
Quote from: AquaMan on March 25, 2012, 10:05:32 AM
Owasso has everything a modern city would be expected to offer in consumerism and its all spankin' new. All the latest chain restaurants, big box retailers, middle and small box retailers. Everything. There is no reason to go to Tulsa proper....I never saw a single scraggly, homeless, drunk, beggar, druggie, low brow the whole time we drove. Groups are not visible on the streets. And the driving is the artery for this lifestyle. 70mph, dogging, huge SUV's and nothing rolling that's older than the tenure of its car loan installment period.
Owasso promoted all that development at the cost of its soul. There are few mom-and-pop businesses. The city is trying to kick start re-development in the old part of town, but it's slow going. Owasso businesses see customers who formerly went to Tulsa for their shopping, but Owasso is more convenient. I think there was even one Tulsa city councilor who wanted to restrict the amount of water sold to Owasso in order to strangle further growth.
We have our share of drunks and druggies, thank you. The cops have busted meth labs in nearly every neighborhood in town, some of them quite nice. One was just 3 doors up from my house.
The town is hardly walkable since it has this big concrete gutter dividing it in half. I could walk over to Smith Farms if there were a pedestrian bridge across US169. It would take 5 minutes. Instead, I have to drive (or bike) nearly 2 miles. Those bicycle advocates who hate and fear cars equally hate and fear the sprawl those cars make possible.
A century ago, Owasso was literally a cow town. It had over 30 dairies supplying milk by railroad through Coffeyville. None of the dairies remain. If you're up here again, I'll take you to the town museum.
Yes, swamp cooler, evaporative cooler. Seems there was something else we called them but they all tarnished the brass. When the float failed we would had to go out and spray the outsides with a water hose. Not too bad since we couldn't afford window air and our house was too old for central air.
Ed, I miss the old Owasso just like I miss the old Broken Arrow and Bixby. There were no more 20,000 people among the three of them. It really is a reverse image, personality wise, of downtown and midtown Tulsa. I remember driving by a neat looking old frame and stone school house on Memorial at about 131st I think. It looked to be really old and historical but was being used as an antique store or flea market or something. Then one day about 8 years ago I drove by and it was gone, replaced with an empty lot. My mom and dad had moved out to Bixby to avoid the high taxes and criminal element in Tulsa. She couldn't even remember the building and its loss apparently caused no uproar. At least people moan and groan when we do that here!
Quote from: AquaMan on March 25, 2012, 07:09:17 PM
Ed, I miss the old Owasso just like I miss the old Broken Arrow and Bixby. There were no more 20,000 people among the three of them.
I believe Bixby's population was around 5000 in '71 when we moved here. There was still stuff in "downtown" Bixby.
Quote from: Ed W on March 25, 2012, 04:54:20 PM
My in-laws came here expecting to find nothing but dirt streets. My bro-in-law thought everyone would be driving enormous 4WD trucks everyday. As far as they knew, Oklahoma was still Indian Territory.
When I worked in New York City, people would ask after learning I was from Oklahoma, if I used to ride my horse to work. They were not joking either.
Quote from: Ed W on March 25, 2012, 04:54:20 PM
My in-laws came here expecting to find nothing but dirt streets. My bro-in-law thought everyone would be driving enormous 4WD trucks everyday. As far as they knew, Oklahoma was still Indian Territory.
I had better expectations. My dad had been through Tulsa shortly after WWII with some friends on a road trip from the East Coast (New Jersey) to California. He was also here in the very late 50s for one of the Oil Expos. I remember he brought back a set of combination wrenches he won as a door prize. I still have most of them. The real clincher was a National Geographic article about Oklahoma/Tulsa very shortly before we moved here.
I also knew I was going back to school to finish my degree and then get drafted into the military and get killed in Viet Nam so I wasn't worried about living here. ;D
I was wondering how it was that your family ended up here. You often reference being from PA, so I had to wonder.
Quote from: jacobi on March 26, 2012, 08:32:15 AM
I was wondering how it was that your family ended up here. You often reference being from PA, so I had to wonder.
Our move was part of the Sunoco/Sunray DX "merger".
When I was in MA this summer, all they said they knew about OK was the Oklahoma Dust bowl.
Quote from: Red Arrow on March 26, 2012, 09:09:56 AM
Our move was part of the Sunoco/Sunray DX "merger".
Ah, I see. I have two generations in my family that worked there (my Dad, from 1979 to 2001, and my grandfather -- my dad's father in law -- who retired from there in 1977). I almost worked there when I moved back from Houston in 1994, but decided against it.