The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Anybody else having problems with AT&T U-Verse?   Internet is slow, the TV is Tiling, we have had technician after technician out to fix the problems and the problems keep coming back.   They have put filters on our system because we are too close to the ATT box. 

We have had co-axles replace.   Believe it or not, it seems to be a problem every time it rains.   

Tonight as well as the above problems I can receive e-mail but can't send them.   I get a message that says it need to be authenticated, what?  I've been sending e-mail for two years and now it needs authenticated?   I called the help line and it said because of high volume of calls there would be an extended wait.   I was on hold 30 minutes and my ADD kicked in. 

Is Cox doing the same thing?  I have Cox at work and have no problems.   My neighbor complains about Cox and asked us about AT&T U-Verse and we told him about our problems.    My wife thinks our house is wired wrong.   She is more techie than I am.   My techie son laughs at us, lot of help he is.   

Is there anyone out there with decent service???

No.  There is no one.

Guy I work with had Cox, changed to AT&T about 9 or 10 months ago, and is getting ready to change back after first of year.  It has been a mess for him, too.  Has had 3 or 4 technician visits, too.  Mediocre to bad service.  He says Cox was better - but didn't really like them very much either.  I know that I am sick of Cox, too.

U-Verse works great if you're close to their VRAD and your boxes are all connected with Ethernet. If not, it might work great or it might not work very well at all. Cox is pretty much the same way. A bad connector once took out half the channels on my Cox service. They also have thus far been unable to make my latest CableCARD pair correctly. Luckily it doesn't matter in my case. I know Hoss has had no end of troubles with his Cox service lately.

We've had Cox for years, and in all that time we've had trouble two or three times.  The worst was a continued problem with tiling, which means the signal is dropping out and the cable box does its best guess at filling in the blanks.  Doofus Number One showed up and said the problem was corrosion in some of the F connectors.  He put all new ones in place, and it worked for about 2 hours.  Doofus Two and Three showed up next, said it was probably the coax buried under the yard.  They did a song and dance and left quickly.  Finally, on a Sunday, a senior tech showed up and ran a piece of coax from the cable box to the distribution amplifier in a neighbor's yard.  Then he brought up a screen on the set that showed the error rate on the cable.  It was maxed out at 9999.  The problem was the distribution amp, not our coax, our set box, or any of the F connectors.  

This took about a month to sort out.

Here are a few things I've learned.  Check that your connectors are tight on the cable box, the television set, and any other points like a splitter that goes to other sets in the house.  Tiling and ghosts can come from bad connections or loose connections.  If a tech shows up, ask if he can check the coax with a time domain reflectometer.  If there are any discontinuities (shorts or opens) in the coax, the meter indicates just how far away they are.  Ask him to check the signal at the television set too.  If the cable box doesn't still support this (and it may not) he should have a hand held meter that can check it.

Finally, Cox has a customer service line that can be genuinely helpful when diagnosing a bad cable box.  They can flash the memory remotely, and if it doesn't work, it's a good indication that the box must be replaced.  It's tedious and time-consuming, of course, but it's still better than dealing with the cellular telephone people, and as we all know, ATT is just plain evil.  

Quote from: nathanm on December 19, 2011, 10:32:17 PM
U-Verse works great if you're close to their VRAD and your boxes are all connected with Ethernet. If not, it might work great or it might not work very well at all. Cox is pretty much the same way. A bad connector once took out half the channels on my Cox service. They also have thus far been unable to make my latest CableCARD pair correctly. Luckily it doesn't matter in my case. I know Hoss has had no end of troubles with his Cox service lately.

Which was corrected with a replacement DOCSIS 3.0 eMTA (term that means a combo phone modem/data modem, since I have landline service with Cox as well).  You have to be diligent though and having some contacts on DSL Reports always helps.

Uverse is still not available downtown.

And I'd put up with some decreased quality for more quantity of channels.

Happy DirecTV customer here.

Quote from: Conan71 on December 20, 2011, 08:49:09 AM
Happy DirecTV customer here.

Until the storm and winds.

;D

Quote from: GG on December 19, 2011, 09:31:54 PM
Anybody else having problems with AT&T U-Verse?   Internet is slow, the TV is Tiling, we have had technician after technician out to fix the problems and the problems keep coming back.   They have put filters on our system because we are too close to the ATT box. 

We have had co-axles replace.   Believe it or not, it seems to be a problem every time it rains.   

Tonight as well as the above problems I can receive e-mail but can't send them.   I get a message that says it need to be authenticated, what?  I've been sending e-mail for two years and now it needs authenticated?   I called the help line and it said because of high volume of calls there would be an extended wait.   I was on hold 30 minutes and my ADD kicked in. 

Is Cox doing the same thing?  I have Cox at work and have no problems.   My neighbor complains about Cox and asked us about AT&T U-Verse and we told him about our problems.    My wife thinks our house is wired wrong.   She is more techie than I am.   My techie son laughs at us, lot of help he is.   

Is there anyone out there with decent service???

I've seen quite a few complaints on the UVerse forum on DSLR/BBR.  Someone claiming that a friend he has that works for UPS is packaging 50-60 Uverse returns a week (in a fairly large metro area, but that's still a few).

You might post in there to see if you can get any help.  I would have liked to have tried it, but they still don't offer it in my neighborhood.  As I stated earlier, new equipment has eased my internet problem, and a brand new firmware push to the set top boxes have also eased the issues with the whole home dvr I have with them.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/uverse

Quote from: Hoss on December 20, 2011, 08:54:30 AM
Until the storm and winds.

;D

Believe it or not, I've not had too many outages due to weather.  It happens, but not often enough that it's made me want to go back to Cox.

I just switched to U-Verse from Cox last week while you guys were jamming sausage down your pieholes.

Too early for definitive results. Wife hates it but she's not what you call an early adopter. Young tech savvy sons love it. Once I edited out such stellar channels as "The Bra Blowout Channel", "The Barbie Channel", etc which are really just infomercials dressed up as real channels, I am starting to like it. No technical problems to speak of so far. We live near downtown and our lines are all above ground and about two blocks from a box.

I really like the additional channel selection. I had to upgrade to the second level to get the ones I enjoy which was a surprise, but affordable. Now I can watch WWII documentaries on my bedroom TV while my wife watches old Seinfeld, Friends and How I met Your Mother reruns in another room. We have all enjoyed the Pause button that utilizes the DVR. Sadly, the sports channels still suck and require more money to get more games.

Keeping my fingers crossed since I cancel Cox today. I'll give it 6 months.

Quote from: Conan71 on December 20, 2011, 08:49:09 AM
Happy DirecTV customer here.

You da man Conan. When you guy's get tired of Cox and U-verse. Let me hook you up with DirecTV or Dish. We do both and now DirecTV bundles with all major phone services for your internet needs. 918-251-6002

Quote from: DolfanBob on December 20, 2011, 10:09:56 AM
You da man Conan. When you guy's get tired of Cox and U-verse. Let me hook you up with DirecTV or Dish. We do both and now DirecTV bundles with all major phone services for your internet needs. 918-251-6002

Sorry DB, not interested.  Especially after some of the stuff my relatives have gone through with it.

Quote from: Hoss on December 20, 2011, 11:00:45 AM
Sorry DB, not interested.  Especially after some of the stuff my relatives have gone through with it.

I wont deny that you can get bad installs and some bad CSR people. But the service is not like back in the day with the 18 inch dish and the lower powered satellite's. I have Direct and have had Dish and Cox. Direct gives me all the sports I can handle and 170 HD channels compared to Dish 140 and Cox 85.
If you are happy with your service and selection, by all means stay with it. Just good to know that there is other services and cable is not the only game in town.

Blowing wind isnt going to cause problems with a properly-installed dish.
If you are having problems like that you need to have them clean up their bad install on their dime.

DirecTV usually picks up half the cost of a service call, but since you could argue that your problem is the result of an incomplete job there should be no charges on your end until the service is working as promised.

Quote from: patric on December 20, 2011, 11:36:15 AM
Blowing wind isnt going to cause problems with a properly-installed dish.
If you are having problems like that you need to have them clean up their bad install on their dime.

DirecTV usually picks up half the cost of a service call, but since you could argue that your problem is the result of an incomplete job there should be no charges on your end until the service is working as promised.

Then they must do bad installs a lot, because nearly everyone I know that has Direct or Dish, complains about this during high winds and storms.

Keep in mind I also, when younger and living with parents, used a C-Band 8 foot sat dish.  Will (Artist) knows this because I gave him the dish I didn't need anymore.

BTW Will, what did you ever do with that?

Quote from: Hoss on December 20, 2011, 12:20:21 PM
Then they must do bad installs a lot, because nearly everyone I know that has Direct or Dish, complains about this during high winds and storms.

Keep in mind I also, when younger and living with parents, used a C-Band 8 foot sat dish.  Will (Artist) knows this because I gave him the dish I didn't need anymore.

BTW Will, what did you ever do with that?

Usually wind won't do too much - it has to be extreme.  (Like when a tornado rips it off the roof...)

Rain (and snow) on the other hand seem to invariably block the signal at just the right time to miss the weather reports for the storm you are keeping an eye on.  (Rain fade.)

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on December 20, 2011, 12:23:19 PM
Usually wind won't do too much - it has to be extreme.  (Like when a tornado rips it off the roof...)

Rain (and snow) on the other hand seem to invariably block the signal at just the right time to miss the weather reports for the storm you are keeping an eye on.  (Rain fade.)

I remember having to get out during the snowstorms and broom the dish off of snow, or we got 'the sparklies'.  I'm sure Dolf remembers that term...always showed up worst in the reds.

If you get interference between the Dish and the LNB(s) your signal is going to be impacted. 

I think there are a few people here in town that work for DISH that support Superstar still, or what's left of it.

Quote from: Hoss on December 20, 2011, 12:26:01 PM
I remember having to get out during the snowstorms and broom the dish off of snow, or we got 'the sparklies'.  I'm sure Dolf remembers that term...always showed up worst in the reds.

You need to move to a blue state.

;D

Quote from: Red Arrow on December 20, 2011, 12:37:37 PM
You need to move to a blue state.

;D

Or convert my current state from red to blue?  I'm for that idea better.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on December 20, 2011, 12:23:19 PM
Usually wind won't do too much - it has to be extreme.  (Like when a tornado rips it off the roof...)

Rain (and snow) on the other hand seem to invariably block the signal at just the right time to miss the weather reports for the storm you are keeping an eye on.  (Rain fade.)

Is it rain and snow or thick clouds that cause the interference?

Quote from: Conan71 on December 20, 2011, 01:02:24 PM
Is it rain and snow or thick clouds that cause the interference?

The one system I get to watch is near OKC and cloudy days never seem to affect, and even a light rain is usually ok.  Heavy clouds this morning and I happened to be here for that - no problem.  With some medium rain and no problem.  Heavy rain every time.  One of those snowstorms we have last year interfered but I am not sure if it was the snowfall or the accumulation on the disk.  Could have been both.

Quote from: Conan71 on December 20, 2011, 01:02:24 PM
Is it rain and snow or thick clouds that cause the interference?

Heavy downpour can knock it out 3 to 5 minutes. As soon as it let's up it re-sets and comes back on. Ice does not effect it, but snow build up will also block the signal. I install low enough down on the roof to be able to brush it out with a broom. Wind problems are directly caused by poor install.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on December 20, 2011, 01:05:55 PM
The one system I get to watch is near OKC and cloudy days never seem to affect, and even a light rain is usually ok.  Heavy clouds this morning and I happened to be here for that - no problem.  With some medium rain and no problem.  Heavy rain every time.  One of those snowstorms we have last year interfered but I am not sure if it was the snowfall or the accumulation on the disk.  Could have been both.

I've had perfectly good reception during some toad stranglers and it's gone searching for satellites in what I consider a much more minor storm.  That's why I wondered.  I don't think I lost reception during all the snow last year and never had to clear the dish.

Quote from: Hoss on December 20, 2011, 12:57:26 PM
Or convert my current state from red to blue?  I'm for that idea better.

That's a terrible idea.  

Quote from: DolfanBob on December 20, 2011, 01:21:46 PM
Heavy downpour can knock it out 3 to 5 minutes. As soon as it let's up it re-sets and comes back on. Ice does not effect it, but snow build up will also block the signal. I install low enough down on the roof to be able to brush it out with a broom. Wind problems are directly caused by poor install.

Ice can effect it, but it has to build up quiet a bit to do so.  I hear bologna on the dish can do wonders ;)

Quote from: custosnox on December 20, 2011, 01:31:07 PM
Ice can effect it, but it has to build up quiet a bit to do so.  I hear bologna on the dish can do wonders ;)

I have customers who say they spray it with Pam. Not sure if that works though.

Quote from: DolfanBob on December 20, 2011, 04:19:51 PM
I have customers who say they spray it with Pam. Not sure if that works though.

the bologna thing was from my days of tech support.  The story goes that one of the CSRs decided to mess with a customer who called in with a code on the screen, so the tech told them to put bologna on the dish, and while they were doing that, the CSR sent the reset command.  There is a longer one about a potato, but same jest.  On the topic of the ice, though, is that they make defrost units for them, just not sure how it works.

Quote from: custosnox on December 20, 2011, 04:23:46 PM
the bologna thing was from my days of tech support.  The story goes that one of the CSRs decided to mess with a customer who called in with a code on the screen, so the tech told them to put bologna on the dish, and while they were doing that, the CSR sent the reset command.  There is a longer one about a potato, but same jest.  On the topic of the ice, though, is that they make defrost units for them, just not sure how it works.

On a lark I Googled: "satellite dish, heating pad"

Sometimes you have to wonder about search results:

(http://www.drsfostersmith.com/images/Categoryimages/normal/p-76207-59123-ferret.jpg)

Quote from: Conan71 on December 20, 2011, 04:33:32 PM
On a lark I Googled: "satellite dish, heating pad"

Sometimes you have to wonder about search results:

(http://www.drsfostersmith.com/images/Categoryimages/normal/p-76207-59123-ferret.jpg)

A ferret sex swing

Quote from: Townsend on December 20, 2011, 04:34:34 PM
A ferret sex swing

Man, did this thread take a sudden left turn off a cliff or what?

Quote from: Conan71 on December 20, 2011, 04:35:30 PM
Man, did this thread take a sudden left turn off a cliff or what?

I really had nothing else to contribute.

Quote from: custosnox on December 20, 2011, 04:23:46 PM
the bologna thing was from my days of tech support.  The story goes that one of the CSRs decided to mess with a customer who called in with a code on the screen, so the tech told them to put bologna on the dish, and while they were doing that, the CSR sent the reset command.  There is a longer one about a potato, but same jest.  On the topic of the ice, though, is that they make defrost units for them, just not sure how it works.

The heated unit is called a "Hot Shot" it is a pad that is applied to the back of the dish and two wires run from it to a power unit that you plug in and it keeps the dish just under 30 degrees I have installed those back in the day, not really practical for our climate but probably a big seller in Buffalo.

Quote from: DolfanBob on December 20, 2011, 05:15:55 PM
The heated unit is called a "Hot Shot" it is a pad that is applied to the back of the dish and two wires run from it to a power unit that you plug in and it keeps the dish just under 30 degrees I have installed those back in the day, not really practical for our climate but probably a big seller in Buffalo.

So you don't recommend attaching ferret sex swings to the dish?

Quote from: Townsend on December 20, 2011, 04:54:44 PM
I really had nothing else to contribute.

Oh that's quite alright.  If hadn't have just returned from the restroom when I saw that, I might have peed my pants from laughing so hard.

Quote from: nathanm on December 19, 2011, 10:32:17 PM
U-Verse works great if you're close to their VRAD and your boxes are all connected with Ethernet. If not, it might work great or it might not work very well at all. Cox is pretty much the same way. A bad connector once took out half the channels on my Cox service. They also have thus far been unable to make my latest CableCARD pair correctly. Luckily it doesn't matter in my case. I know Hoss has had no end of troubles with his Cox service lately.

I am close to the VRAD it is across the street, the technician who seemed to know what he was doing put a filter on our system because he said we were too close and were picking up a lot of noise.   It worked great for about 2 months and then last week it started up again. 

Thanks for the input everyone.   I think I will take a look at satellite, that is what my son has and he loves it.   He has Cox for his internet connection. 

"Rain Fade" was more of a problem with the 18" round dishes and lower-powered satellites.  It still happens occasionally but to a much lesser extent due to the larger oval dishes common now.
It's usually a big thunderhead full of water that will attenuate the signal, not falling rain.

Either Dish or DirecTV would be a better bargain than Cox for TV.  Dish is about to be purchased by AT&T, FYI.

Quote from: patric on December 20, 2011, 11:22:11 PM
"Rain Fade" was more of a problem with the 18" round dishes and lower-powered satellites.  It still happens occasionally but to a much lesser extent due to the larger oval dishes common now.
It's usually a big thunderhead full of water that will attenuate the signal, not falling rain.

Either Dish or DirecTV would be a better bargain than Cox for TV.  Dish is about to be purchased by AT&T, FYI.

That, in and of itself, is one reason I won't touch it.

Quote from: GG on December 20, 2011, 07:32:17 PM
Thanks for the input everyone.   I think I will take a look at satellite, that is what my son has and he loves it.   He has Cox for his internet connection. 

Call me GG. 918-251-6002 we have our own installers and let me know what system your son has and I will get you and him 100 dollars toward your DirecTV or 50 dollars for Dish Network.

Quote from: Hoss on December 20, 2011, 11:59:41 PM
That, in and of itself, is one reason I won't touch it.

Won't happen so long as Charlie is around, he will never sell Dish.

Quote from: swake on December 21, 2011, 09:31:39 AM
Won't happen so long as Charlie is around, he will never sell Dish.

That is true. And he is the big problem with Dish.

Quote from: DolfanBob on December 21, 2011, 09:33:04 AM
That is true. And he is the big problem with Dish.

I've met him, he's quite interesting.

So I don't know if you watch anything on local ABC but:

AT&T U-verse Refuses To Carry KTUL Tulsa's Channel 8 After December 31st.

http://www.ktul.com/story/16378550/att-u-verse-refuses-to-carry-ktul-tulsas-channel-8-after-december-31st-tulsa-area-viewers-will-lose-abc-programming-on-att-u-verse?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.ktul.com/story/16378550/att-u-verse-refuses-to-carry-ktul-tulsas-channel-8-after-december-31st-tulsa-area-viewers-will-lose-abc-programming-on-att-u-verse?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

QuoteKTUL Tulsa's Channel 8, the local ABC affiliate, today announces that despite prolonged negotiations, AT&T U-verse was unwilling to carry the station
past the end of its current contract. As a result, KTUL will no longer be seen on AT&T
U-verse effective January 1, 2012.


"We are simply seeking a fair deal, which adequately values the award-winning news,
sports, weather, traffic and entertainment programming that is important to our local
viewers," said Pat Baldwin, KTUL Tulsa's Channel 8 President and General Manager.


KTUL's long-term agreement with AT&T U-verse expires on December 31, 2011.
Unfortunately, KTUL cannot force AT&T to keep Tulsa's Channel 8 on its channel lineup
after that deadline.


KTUL's programming will remain available for viewers over the air, and this dispute will
not affect customers of DIRECTV, Dish Network, Cox Cable, Centel Cable, Cable ONE,
Allegiance Cable TV or Suddenlink Cable. "We have reached long term agreements
with every other major cable and satellite distributor," Baldwin stated.


"It is unfortunate that AT&T does not see the same value in our programming as
every other operator. Regardless, we will continue to offer the same high quality
programming as we always have, and we will continue to serve our community as we
have done for decades."


For more information, please call 918-445-8888

Quote from: Townsend on December 22, 2011, 11:54:49 AM
So I don't know if you watch anything on local ABC but:

AT&T U-verse Refuses To Carry KTUL Tulsa's Channel 8 After December 31st.

http://www.ktul.com/story/16378550/att-u-verse-refuses-to-carry-ktul-tulsas-channel-8-after-december-31st-tulsa-area-viewers-will-lose-abc-programming-on-att-u-verse?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.ktul.com/story/16378550/att-u-verse-refuses-to-carry-ktul-tulsas-channel-8-after-december-31st-tulsa-area-viewers-will-lose-abc-programming-on-att-u-verse?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

Yet another reason they suck.

Quote from: Townsend on December 22, 2011, 11:54:49 AM
So I don't know if you watch anything on local ABC but:

AT&T U-verse Refuses To Carry KTUL Tulsa's Channel 8 After December 31st.

I think you will find KTUL was asking for a price increase for the privilege of carrying it's signal on U_verse.
When at&t balked at the prospect of having to raise it's rates just to placate a less-significant broadcaster, KTUL decided to play the victim card rather than negotiate a fairer rate.

Quote from: patric on December 22, 2011, 12:26:35 PM
I think you will find KTUL was asking for a price increase for the privilege of carrying it's signal on U_verse.
When at&t balked at the prospect of having to raise it's rates just to placate a less-significant broadcaster, KTUL decided to play the victim card rather than negotiate a fairer rate.

Maybe so, but, as indicated, the other carriers evidently didn't have a problem with it.  Only AT&T did.

And I wouldn't consider KTUL a 'less-significant broadcaster'.  At least they don't focus their news on a completely different area of the state, ala KOTV.  I've stopped watching their newscasts because I don't need to know about what's going on in OKC.

Well, the loss of Channel 8 to me is a significant thing. I wasn't told that and I would expect those who signed up would like to know they won't be getting one of the local broadcasters.

So, get this. I call to cancel Cox and the guy seems dismayed. Here's the conversation:
Cox: Why? You've been a customer since 1993.

Well, I countered, they made me a good offer, the timing was right since we were also re-upping our cell phones and I like the idea of the DVR. My son has the system and it works well

Cox: Well, Why didn't you call us?

Me? Call you? Why haven't you called me? You guys will offer any one walking through the door better deals than you give me after 18 years of faithful service.

Cox: We run television adds telling you all about our offers. All you had to do was call. Most of our customers don't like salespeople and prefer to call us.

I am not most people but I am a salesperson and have been for most of my life. And, there is a difference between selling someone something, which most people don't like, and providing good service to long term customers by offering them the latest deals, which people do like. You did neither. Also, I am not a big consumer of television and darn sure not a big consumer of television advertising. That's why we want the DVR. But I did notice I received a call from you folks the day after I signed up for Uverse, so you do have salespeople who are well connected and lazy.

You know one other thing while I have you. The last time I called in to apologize and explain a late payment, the operator was so impressed with me she suggested they needed people who could converse, were respectful and had sales background. She told me to apply and she would refer me. So I did. And less than 48 hours later I was e-mailed a rejection even though I was well qualified. Not even an interview. I think it was my age. How old are you?

Cox: Let me make an offer for you to comeback. We have DVR. I'll put your account on pending.

Ok.

It would bother me too. I have a secret crush on Yvonne Lewis. Shush.....dont nobody tell her.

Quote from: DolfanBob on December 22, 2011, 02:01:02 PM
It would bother me too. I have a secret crush on Yvonne Lewis. Shush.....dont nobody tell her.

Her favorite color is yellow.  Remember that when you send her the flowers and letters.

Quote from: Townsend on December 22, 2011, 02:30:31 PM
Her favorite color is yellow.  Remember that when you send her the flowers and letters.

Hmm nice to know. Switching into stalker mode.  ;D

Quote from: Hoss on December 22, 2011, 01:17:08 PM
And I wouldn't consider KTUL a 'less-significant broadcaster'.  At least they don't focus their news on a completely different area of the state, ala KOTV.  I've stopped watching their newscasts because I don't need to know about what's going on in OKC.

That's a valid point.  Ever since 6 de-branded itself as a Tulsa station they've shamelessly been just a local bureau of an OKC broadcaster.

8 has a history of eccentric demands on carriers.  Remember when they would only allow cable to carry their signal if they could pre-empt CNN every hour with their "local edition"?  It was something taped after their 10pm show and played all the next day regardless of how stale the news was.

Quote from: patric on December 22, 2011, 03:13:38 PM

Remember when they would only allow cable to carry their signal if they could pre-empt CNN every hour with their "local edition"?  It was something taped after their 10pm show and played all the next day regardless of how stale the news was.

I wondered about how that got set up back then.

I have DISH. In three years, they will reign supreme. Especially if they get T Moblie or Sprint. They are set up to do huge things. Blockbuster. Siriusly...made to order TV is the future.

One single drawback is the weather interruptions. Bet they can solve that issue with all the bandwidth they have....

http://seekingalpha.com/article/298752-the-future-of-dish-networks-and-its-competitors
"There is no other company that offers a digital TV package, internet TV from Google (GOOG), and a mail-order program in the same way as DISH. The company is directly outperforming all of its competition and creating a service that is beyond the reach of its competitors. The company can compete with Amazon (AMZN) and Apple (AAPL) by offering its Google TV, it competes with Netflix by offering mail-order DVDs, and it competes with Directv by offering the same satellite services. But when you combine all of the services that DISH now offers and the strategic moves it's making for the future, which include Smartv with Intel (INTC), the company is on a different level in which no other service provider can compete."

"....  I believe that the company is fully capable of building a successful wireless segment and competing with the largest companies within the communications industry."

Just Hulu it

Quote from: Teatownclown on December 22, 2011, 03:54:05 PM
I have DISH. In three years, they will reign supreme. Especially if they get T Moblie or Sprint. They are set up to do huge things. Blockbuster. Siriusly...made to order TV is the future.

One single drawback is the weather interruptions. Bet they can solve that issue with all the bandwidth they have....

http://seekingalpha.com/article/298752-the-future-of-dish-networks-and-its-competitors
"There is no other company that offers a digital TV package, internet TV from Google (GOOG), and a mail-order program in the same way as DISH. The company is directly outperforming all of its competition and creating a service that is beyond the reach of its competitors. The company can compete with Amazon (AMZN) and Apple (AAPL) by offering its Google TV, it competes with Netflix by offering mail-order DVDs, and it competes with Directv by offering the same satellite services. But when you combine all of the services that DISH now offers and the strategic moves it's making for the future, which include Smartv with Intel (INTC), the company is on a different level in which no other service provider can compete."

"....  I believe that the company is fully capable of building a successful wireless segment and competing with the largest companies within the communications industry."

No dish in the world outside of one that is huge can solve the weather interruptions.  Dish/Direct/Whatever works fine on the edges of the country, where the weather isn't inclement, but the rain that happens here makes the discriminating (note that word) TV user cringe.  That and word of mouth over 6 years I've had.  I'll stick with cable as sofar they are the only ones that I can bundle my landline phone, internet and TV right now to the level I like.

Quote from: Hoss on December 22, 2011, 04:43:33 PM
No dish in the world outside of one that is huge can solve the weather interruptions.  Dish/Direct/Whatever works fine on the edges of the country, where the weather isn't inclement, but the rain that happens here makes the discriminating (note that word) TV user cringe.  That and word of mouth over 6 years I've had.  I'll stick with cable as sofar they are the only ones that I can bundle my landline phone, internet and TV right now to the level I like.

Land line?

The brinksmanship on channels being cut due to rate demands isn't only a problem with AT&T.  There were "Whaaaa...NatGeo isn't playing fair" messages on the program guide on DTV a month or so back due to rate increases from the broadcasters.  I don't remember how many channels were going to be affected but it was four or five.  They resolved it before the deadline.

Quote from: Townsend on December 22, 2011, 04:52:44 PM
Land line?

eventually, wifi, land line, or computer will fill the drop off.....

Quote from: Townsend on December 22, 2011, 04:52:44 PM
Land line?

Mother.  If it were just me, I wouldn't have one.  Mom is still not real adept at using cell phones.

I pulled the trigger today, I cancelled U-Verse.   I'm having Direct TV and Cox Internet installed next week.   

Thanks for the comments and ideas.   

Quote from: GG on December 23, 2011, 05:06:52 PM
I pulled the trigger today, I cancelled U-Verse.   I'm having Direct TV and Cox Internet installed next week.   

Thanks for the comments and ideas.   

Thanks GG for going local. I appreciate it.

Quote from: DolfanBob on December 23, 2011, 05:24:01 PM
Thanks GG for going local. I appreciate it.

Which one of those is local again?

Quote from: nathanm on December 23, 2011, 06:08:32 PM
Which one of those is local again?

Retailer. Instead of signing up with the National number for Dish or Direct.

Cancelled my U-verse a while back. Nothing but problems!

Quote from: Mommamt on January 09, 2012, 09:28:58 PM
Cancelled my U-verse a while back. Nothing but problems!

Did you do that before or after you started spamming local boards for the Harlem Globefailers?

Quote from: DolfanBob on December 26, 2011, 08:14:47 AM
Retailer. Instead of signing up with the National number for Dish or Direct.

Do you do RV installations?

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 10, 2012, 09:34:43 AM
Do you do RV installations?

Yes sir. 918-251-6002

Quote from: DolfanBob on January 10, 2012, 09:35:36 AM
Yes sir. 918-251-6002

Ahhh...right between the donut shop and McDonald's!!  Doesn't get any better than that...

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 10, 2012, 09:41:06 AM
Ahhh...right between the donut shop and McDonald's!!  Doesn't get any better than that...

Used to be. We now face Momentum Chevrolet. Behind "Bill and Ruth's"

Quote from: GG on December 23, 2011, 05:06:52 PM
I pulled the trigger today, I cancelled U-Verse.   I'm having Direct TV and Cox Internet installed next week.   

Thanks for the comments and ideas.   

Id still keep the U-verse just for internet, though.
That's not how they want to market it, but they might eventually get the message.

Quote from: DolfanBob on January 10, 2012, 10:59:11 AM
Used to be. We now face Momentum Chevrolet. Behind "Bill and Ruth's"

I gotta pay more attention...I drive there at least a couple times a week and remember seeing Graves sign, but I guess the time/space  orientation is off.


Well, while I'm here and the "C" word was mentioned... anyone have a 2012 Chevy Impala - may want to not read this.  I had the occasion to drive one for two weeks and 2,200 miles (roughly 200 miles in town).  Big disappointment.  Instead of the EPA "estimate" of near 30 mpg, it gets 25.  (I get 22 mpg on a 7,000 lb truck using same calculation methods, and a little bit higher in town miles). 

Also, extremely uncomfortable seats.  Not good.  Next time, will try a Subaru.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 10, 2012, 08:02:44 PM


Next time, will try a Subaru.

Just don't wear a lumberjack shirt and Birkenstocks or you will be mistaken for a dyke.

Quote from: Conan71 on January 10, 2012, 08:45:53 PM
Just don't wear a lumberjack shirt and Birkenstocks or you will be mistaken for a dyke.

I guess that explains why the ladies have been propositioning me so often lately.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 10, 2012, 08:02:44 PM
Well, while I'm here and the "C" word was mentioned... anyone have a 2012 Chevy Impala - may want to not read this.  I had the occasion to drive one for two weeks and 2,200 miles (roughly 200 miles in town).  Big disappointment.  Instead of the EPA "estimate" of near 30 mpg, it gets 25.  (I get 22 mpg on a 7,000 lb truck using same calculation methods, and a little bit higher in town miles). 

How heavy is your right foot?   The Chevy web site lists the Impala engine as 3.6 Litre/ 217 CID, 300 HP @ 6500 RPM, and 262 (lb-ft, not shown) @ 5300 RPM.  I didn't see the weight of the car but it's probably pushing 4000 lb.

Quote from: nathanm on January 10, 2012, 09:27:21 PM
I guess that explains why the ladies have been propositioning me so often lately.

The shirt, the shoes, the car or a combination?

Quote from: Conan71 on January 10, 2012, 08:45:53 PM
Just don't wear a lumberjack shirt and Birkenstocks or you will be mistaken for a dyke.

Even in a WRX?

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 10, 2012, 08:02:44 PM
Also, extremely uncomfortable seats.  Not good.  Next time, will try a Subaru.

Mid 90s Chrysler products killed my back.  I had to stuff a jacket between the small of my back and the seat back or I was toast in less than 1/2 hr.  I haven't driven anything new from GM but I hope they didn't get their seat designers from Chrysler.

Quote from: Red Arrow on January 10, 2012, 09:28:23 PM
How heavy is your right foot?   The Chevy web site lists the Impala engine as 3.6 Litre/ 217 CID, 300 HP @ 6500 RPM, and 262 (lb-ft, not shown) @ 5300 RPM.  I didn't see the weight of the car but it's probably pushing 4000 lb.

3555 lbs.  62/38 weight distribution.

Heavy enough to get 22 mpg on the Dodge diesel - combined city AND highway.  Drove Route 66 several times from OKC to Tulsa in last few years - average a little slower highway - about 60mph - but got 26 mpg on the Dodge (5.9 liter).

I got 23 on the 96 Olds Delta with a 3.8 liter!  And a whole lot more comfortable!  But then, this is the "good GM feeling"....

Quote from: Red Arrow on January 10, 2012, 09:41:50 PM
Mid 90s Chrysler products killed my back.  I had to stuff a jacket between the small of my back and the seat back or I was toast in less than 1/2 hr.  I haven't driven anything new from GM but I hope they didn't get their seat designers from Chrysler.

Done outside - none of the "Big 3" designs or builds their seats.

Quote from: Red Arrow on January 10, 2012, 09:30:58 PM
Even in a WRX?

Someone with a new-to-them Evo X took me out to Sand Springs on old north road the other day. Let's just say that cars should not be capable of going that fast around corners that sharp and bumpy, and I say this as someone who would probably be called a reckless driver by a large segment of the population.

I am accused of driving like an old man 'cause I accelerate and brake modestly at every opportunity.  That's how I get good mileage.  I do know a guy who beats me like a rented mule.  He got in the 80 and 90 mpg range with his Honda Civic - doing those maximum mileage field trial things.  My 1976 Civic couldn't get much better than about 43-45 with me driving it.

Quote from: nathanm on January 11, 2012, 12:52:33 PM
Someone with a new-to-them Evo X took me out to Sand Springs on old north road the other day. Let's just say that cars should not be capable of going that fast around corners that sharp and bumpy, and I say this as someone who would probably be called a reckless driver by a large segment of the population.

Evo X, another street legal road racer.  A few years ago, a co-worker had an Evo (not sure about the "X").  It was like a go-kart on steroids.  The driver wasn't as smooth (d³x/dt³) as he thought he was but the car stayed in control.  I would rather have cars more capable than necessary than the other way around but the American buying public will keep performance in rein.  Reckless is not so good but assertive is better than being indecisive.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 11, 2012, 01:06:53 PM
I am accused of driving like an old man 'cause (You are one.  ;D) I accelerate and brake modestly at every opportunity.  That's how I get good mileage.  I do know a guy who beats me like a rented mule.  He got in the 80 and 90 mpg range with his Honda Civic - doing those maximum mileage field trial things.  My 1976 Civic couldn't get much better than about 43-45 with me driving it.

You don't have to be a jack rabbit but if you don't keep pace with traffic, you are a contributing cause to others doing stupid things to get around you.  I also hope you are not one of those drivers that tries to merge with 65 mph traffic on the expressways while only accelerating to 45 or 50 mph on the entrance/acceleration ramps. 

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 11, 2012, 08:04:42 AM
3555 lbs.  62/38 weight distribution.

Front wheel drive is horrible in that regard.

My '66 Skylark GS (400) was about 54/46 with the big 400 CID (401 Nailhead) engine with about a half tank of gas.  2100 front/1800 rear without people in it. (Yes, I weighed it.)

Quote from: Red Arrow on January 11, 2012, 09:05:12 PM
Evo X, another street legal road racer.  A few years ago, a co-worker had an Evo (not sure about the "X").  It was like a go-kart on steroids.  The driver wasn't as smooth (d³x/dt³) as he thought he was but the car stayed in control.  I would rather have cars more capable than necessary than the other way around but the American buying public will keep performance in rein.  Reckless is not so good but assertive is better than being indecisive.

I agree with pretty much all of what you said. Good tools will save your donkey and bad ones will come back to bite your donkey. My SO once had an Escort ZX2. It turned much better than it had any right to, but I found out about snap oversteer one evening in that car. It's just not something you expect out of a front wheel drive car with a half-decent weight distribution.

The pride in me says that I proved how good a driver I was by managing to avoid the many obstacles that could have made my night even worse, after all, I was only off by a couple of inches despite nearly spinning the car. It was still worth a flat tire. The realist says I shouldn't have been going that fast around that corner in that car. Since then, I've gotten over the need to test the limits of every car I drive.

FWIW, the current Evo is probably the least expensive car you can get an auto-clutch transmission in, if that's your thing. ;)

Quote from: Red Arrow on January 11, 2012, 09:11:22 PM
You don't have to be a jack rabbit but if you don't keep pace with traffic, you are a contributing cause to others doing stupid things to get around you.  I also hope you are not one of those drivers that tries to merge with 65 mph traffic on the expressways while only accelerating to 45 or 50 mph on the entrance/acceleration ramps.  

I merge at 65 to 75.

There are certain ramps where you just can't get up enough speed (BA eastbound at Harvard) but mostly I get fast pretty quick.  Not jack rabbit.  And I will wait for traffic to give me more room.

Oh, yeah...and yes, very old!  (Just like you!!  Na na na na na!!)

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 12, 2012, 08:22:04 AM
There are certain ramps where you just can't get up enough speed (BA eastbound at Harvard) but mostly I get fast pretty quick.  Not jack rabbit.  And I will wait for traffic to give me more room.

My speedometer says that 65 is possible even at that onramp. (if you're not stuck behind a line of minivans driving 40, of course) Granted, there may be people whose vehicles literally cannot accelerate that quickly, but they're rare these days. Even my 110HP 1991 Honda Accord will do it. It does require knowing where the right pedal is and (in some vehicles, like the Honda) does require knowing that the pedal on the right can in fact be pushed all the way to the floor or that curves can be taken at speed without flying off the road...or onto the road in that case.

Unfortunately, some people seem to be afraid of the noise and discomfort that accompanies acceleration. I'm not saying that it's a good idea to always accelerate like gangbusters. It's terrible for mileage, after all. However, there are times when driving when you should pay the extra ten cents and not create a hazard to all the other road users. Merging onto a highway and turns into/across heavy traffic are two that come immediately to mind. It never ceases to amaze me how many people will turn into a small gap without bothering to even try to get up to speed quickly.

Quote from: nathanm on January 12, 2012, 10:59:35 AM
My speedometer says that 65 is possible even at that onramp. (if you're not stuck behind a line of minivans driving 40, of course) Granted, there may be people whose vehicles literally cannot accelerate that quickly, but they're rare these days. Even my 110HP 1991 Honda Accord will do it. It does require knowing where the right pedal is and (in some vehicles, like the Honda) does require knowing that the pedal on the right can in fact be pushed all the way to the floor or that curves can be taken at speed without flying off the road...or onto the road in that case.

Unfortunately, some people seem to be afraid of the noise and discomfort that accompanies acceleration. I'm not saying that it's a good idea to always accelerate like gangbusters. It's terrible for mileage, after all. However, there are times when driving when you should pay the extra ten cents and not create a hazard to all the other road users. Merging onto a highway and turns into/across heavy traffic are two that come immediately to mind. It never ceases to amaze me how many people will turn into a small gap without bothering to even try to get up to speed quickly.

The jog in the entrance ramp eastbound intimidates a lot of drivers.  Having a car that handles quick steering inputs helps.

I've grazed that curb a couple of times myself.  The real donkey-pain merge is the on-ramp right before Lewis eastbound.  It's uphill and short.

This was about disparaging cable options wasn't it?

I found the problem, yet one more example of where a certain veggie doesn't know how to start a new topic, so he simply veers off onto a new tangent without first invoking "Marshall's".

I suspect he might benefit from ritalin.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 12, 2012, 08:22:04 AM
There are certain ramps where you just can't get up enough speed (BA eastbound at Harvard) but mostly I get fast pretty quick.  Not jack rabbit.  And I will wait for traffic to give me more room.
Oh, yeah...and yes, very old!  (Just like you!!  Na na na na na!!)

There are some ramps that most cars cannot get up to merging speed on around Tulsa.

A lot of old is in attitude.  You said you drive like an old man.  The old man I would choose to drive like would have been Paul Newman (before he passed away, of course).  Your post implied the stereotype old man, wobbling around on a cane.

Quote from: Conan71 on January 12, 2012, 11:17:48 AM
The jog in the entrance ramp eastbound intimidates a lot of drivers. 

Because they never learned how to drive.   It's kind of like airplane pilots who are afraid of spins.  They're actually fun at the proper altitude in the proper aircraft.

Quote from: Conan71 on January 12, 2012, 11:21:07 AM
I found the problem, yet one more example of where a certain veggie doesn't know how to start a new topic, so he simply veers off onto a new tangent without first invoking "Marshall's".

I suspect he might benefit from ritalin.

It's easy to get distracted.

:)

Quote from: Townsend on January 12, 2012, 11:19:02 AM
This was about disparaging cable options wasn't it?

Got more?  That was pretty well beat to death, and everyone decided to go to Dish or Direct satellite....

Quote from: Red Arrow on January 12, 2012, 12:24:50 PM
Because they never learned how to drive.   It's kind of like airplane pilots who are afraid of spins.  They're actually fun at the proper altitude in the proper aircraft.

Fear while driving or flying is counterproductive. You're much more likely to get out of a sticky situation if you remain calm. Even if you are in a situation where you will inevitably crash, you can still at least attempt to work for the least bad outcome. That is much easier with extensive training, to say the least. It would be nice if we had mandatory driver training like we do for pilots.

Note that I'm not at all saying that people shouldn't be aware of their limits, their vehicle's limits, and how they are modified by conditions at all times.

And to be slightly on topic, I'm still on cable. DirecTV wouldn't be any cheaper for me and I couldn't use my TiVos. (I had DirecTV for a while and had no issue with it, though) As far as Dish is concerned, the company was far too sleazy for far too long for me to be interested.

Quote from: nathanm on January 12, 2012, 12:58:46 PM
I'm still on cable. DirecTV wouldn't be any cheaper for me and I couldn't use my TiVos. (I had DirecTV for a while and had no issue with it, though) As far as Dish is concerned, the company was far too sleazy for far too long for me to be interested.

There are TiVo's made specifically for DirecTV that have internal satellite tuners.  The one that I have been using since before 9/11 lets you record two satellite channels while watching the playback of a third.

DirecTV recently re-introduced newer "DirecTiVo"  models that are getting mixed reviews.

I used to have a (Philips) S2 DirecTiVo. The per-account DVR fee was great compared to paying TiVo for each box. Still would be, even with my grandfathered pricing.

It's still more expensive, though, and has a contract. Maybe if I were paying box rental fees from Cox it would be more competitive. I pay around $150 right now for TV and Internet. To get the same channel lineup, which would admittedly also get me several channels I'd really like Cox to have, I'd have to pay about $100 just for the TV part, which is an (admittedly small) increase, but I'd rather see my cost go down than up.

And you can't get the new TiVo receiver in Tulsa, apparently. Without that, SWMBO will not go for it. ;)

Quote from: Conan71 on January 12, 2012, 11:21:07 AM
I found the problem, yet one more example of where a certain veggie doesn't know how to start a new topic, so he simply veers off onto a new tangent without first invoking "Marshall's".

I suspect he might benefit from ritalin.

Just trying to keep up the traditions around here....

Quote from: nathanm on January 12, 2012, 03:38:31 PM
I used to have a (Philips) S2 DirecTiVo. The per-account DVR fee was great compared to paying TiVo for each box. Still would be, even with my grandfathered pricing.

It's still more expensive, though, and has a contract. Maybe if I were paying box rental fees from Cox it would be more competitive. I pay around $150 right now for TV and Internet. To get the same channel lineup, which would admittedly also get me several channels I'd really like Cox to have, I'd have to pay about $100 just for the TV part, which is an (admittedly small) increase, but I'd rather see my cost go down than up.

And you can't get the new TiVo receiver in Tulsa, apparently. Without that, SWMBO will not go for it. ;)

Your right about your second year on DirecTV price wise. But your first year I can get you 4 T.V.s with HD on all of your sets and a HD DVR whole home solution where it will work on all T.Vs. 210 channels and all the movie channels free for 3 months for 62.98  a month. Free installation. You could keep your Cox internet for as low as 27.99 or I could bundle you together with AT&T internet for as low as 24.99 and a addle 10 dollars off your DirecTV bill for 1 year. Your gonna save money because if you keep the DirecTV package after the first year it would go up to 98.98 for the second year. And if you sign up I will give you or anyone else 10 dollars off a Month for 10 months and reward TNF G.G. with the same 10 dollars off because he signed up through TNF. 918-251-6002

Yeah, that first year price is nice is a (small) savings. An extra $10 off might even make it worthwhile. Problem is that the second year is about $20 more (than Cox) a month. I'm paying $80.22/mo for video from Cox, plus another $6 a month for the TiVo that doesn't have lifetime service, which gets me everything but the spanish package and premiums. Obviously, it would be a lot more painful if I had a couple of Cox's boxes, but their prices on CableCARDs are eminently reasonable. Full price on the Internet, though, since I don't have a home phone.

PM me when the TiVo comes to town and we can see how the numbers work out at that time. Who knows, Cox may have another price increase by then.

Edited to add: I just realized I fibbed. I don't get the Plus package channels, so I don't get quite everything but spanish and premiums. Almost, though. ;)

Quote from: nathanm on January 13, 2012, 01:09:30 PM
Yeah, that first year price is nice is a (small) savings. An extra $10 off might even make it worthwhile. Problem is that the second year is about $20 more (than Cox) a month. I'm paying $80.22/mo for video from Cox, plus another $6 a month for the TiVo that doesn't have lifetime service, which gets me everything but the spanish package and premiums. Obviously, it would be a lot more painful if I had a couple of Cox's boxes, but their prices on CableCARDs are eminently reasonable. Full price on the Internet, though, since I don't have a home phone.

PM me when the TiVo comes to town and we can see how the numbers work out at that time. Who knows, Cox may have another price increase by then.

Edited to add: I just realized I fibbed. I don't get the Plus package channels, so I don't get quite everything but spanish and premiums. Almost, though. ;)

I don't think you get the plus package channels from Cox unless you subscribe to their whole home DVR service (I do).

Quote from: nathanm on January 13, 2012, 01:09:30 PM
Who knows, Cox may have another price increase by then.

Cox has a price increase every spring, right after Cable TV Month.

Quote from: patric on January 13, 2012, 07:20:21 PM
Cox has a price increase every spring, right after Cable TV Month.

They just had one this month, but I missed out on it due to price lock until Dec of this year.

Hmm, I must have missed the notice.

Apparently Uverse is still slowly expanding, but this is this really something we allow here in Tulsa?

(http://i.imgur.com/COlEU.jpg)

Quote from: nathanm on June 09, 2012, 06:45:20 PM
Apparently Uverse is still slowly expanding, but this is this really something we allow here in Tulsa?

(http://i.imgur.com/COlEU.jpg)

Even underground power has an above-ground component. You don't want 3 crews, a safety inspector, street closure and a ventilation system just to turn your DSL on.

Yeah, you kinda missed the point, which is that the box is in the middle of the freakin' sidewalk, when they could just have easily placed it in the strip between the sidewalk and the street or even back where the existing cross connect box is. Too much trouble, I guess. It's hard to tell from the pic, but there's not really enough space to get a wheelchair between the box and the edge of the sidewalk due to the depth of the cabinet and the taper of the concrete area.

If I had a problem with the cabinets themselves, I'd be up smile creek, since there's one next door. It is not in the middle of a sidewalk, even though they had to dig out part of a slope and build a small retaining wall to put it there.

Quote from: nathanm on June 09, 2012, 06:45:20 PM
Apparently Uverse is still slowly expanding, but this is this really something we allow here in Tulsa?

(http://i.imgur.com/COlEU.jpg)

Nope.  AT&T has said U-Verse expansion is done.

http://www.ntca.org/new-edge/video/att-no-more-u-verse-build-out

Makes me wonder whatever happened to Tim H....

Quote from: Hoss on June 10, 2012, 05:23:14 PM
Nope.  AT&T has said U-Verse expansion is done.

http://www.ntca.org/new-edge/video/att-no-more-u-verse-build-out

So I guess the only one interested now is Google, who wants to get into the Fiber-To-The-Home business:

"We'll deliver Internet speeds more than 100 times faster than what most Americans have access to today with 1 gigabit per second, fiber-to-the-home connections. We plan to offer service at a competitive price to at least 50,000, and potentially up to 500,000 people."

Quote from: patric on June 10, 2012, 08:18:01 PM
So I guess the only one interested now is Google, who wants to get into the Fiber-To-The-Home business:

"We'll deliver Internet speeds more than 100 times faster than what most Americans have access to today with 1 gigabit per second, fiber-to-the-home connections. We plan to offer service at a competitive price to at least 50,000, and potentially up to 500,000 people."

Tell me again, what is the population of the USA?

Quote from: Red Arrow on June 10, 2012, 08:32:39 PM
Tell me again, what is the population of the USA?

Think he's talking about the coverage in the pilot city (KC).

Quote from: Hoss on June 10, 2012, 08:41:08 PM
Think he's talking about the coverage in the pilot city (KC).

Sometimes a few details make a difference.

Quote from: Hoss on June 10, 2012, 05:23:14 PM

Makes me wonder whatever happened to Tim H....

Now you've done it.  Now he'll talk about you on his blog.

Instead of starting a new thread...

The SO and I moved back to town at Chistmas, ordered U-Verse internet.

Seems to have turned out to be a mistake, we should be at 12 Mbit (what we ordered), we are at 3, supposedly 3 is the highest they offer in Oklahoma. Even though I have a 9 mbit line in Soper Oklahoma from ATT. How the freak is a town of maybe 600 people have a higher line available then here?

To top it off, the speed test by ATT at the pole and in house is an easy 10 spiking at 15. The modem is what is capping us at 3, people at support think 3 is as high as it goes in OK. pancakes. Add to it we are paying for the top teir U-Verse every month they fixed the bill, next bill guess what, no credits and no lower charge.

Who works for ATT? I mean they all can't be so dumb.

If you ask why we are not with Cox, billing issues in the past and contract are a no go.

You're not on uverse. Uverse minimum is 18Mbps sync, although they offer slower internet tiers if you want them...

Quote from: godboko71 on June 11, 2012, 02:33:55 PM
Instead of starting a new thread...

The SO and I moved back to town at Chistmas, ordered U-Verse internet.

Seems to have turned out to be a mistake, we should be at 12 Mbit (what we ordered), we are at 3, supposedly 3 is the highest they offer in Oklahoma. Even though I have a 9 mbit line in Soper Oklahoma from ATT. How the freak is a town of maybe 600 people have a higher line available then here?

To top it off, the speed test by ATT at the pole and in house is an easy 10 spiking at 15. The modem is what is capping us at 3, people at support think 3 is as high as it goes in OK. pancakes. Add to it we are paying for the top teir U-Verse every month they fixed the bill, next bill guess what, no credits and no lower charge.

Who works for ATT? I mean they all can't be so dumb.

If you ask why we are not with Cox, billing issues in the past and contract are a no go.

Sounds like Windstream!!  They sell a "12mbps" speed, and then when it only goes to about 7, they say that they only really "promise" 65% of the stated speed.  And they can't even make that - it would be about 7.8 mbps.  GTE used to be bad, but Windstream makes them look like a breath of fresh air.

Quote from: nathanm on June 11, 2012, 03:06:00 PM
You're not on uverse. Uverse minimum is 18Mbps sync, although they offer slower internet tiers if you want them...

Oh but In my area they only offer Uverse *rolls eyes.* They only offer Uverse even though you can't get Uverse  Phone or TV.

Trust me I know I am not on real Uverse, though I had to pay for the bleeping modem to get blistering fast 3 Mbit speeds.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 11, 2012, 08:23:45 PM
Sounds like Windstream!!  They sell a "12mbps" speed, and then when it only goes to about 7, they say that they only really "promise" 65% of the stated speed. 

Pay only 65% of your bill.

Quote from: Red Arrow on June 11, 2012, 08:55:41 PM
Pay only 65% of your bill.

As much as it pains me to say so, Cox looks like a viable alternative.  Yuck.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 11, 2012, 08:57:16 PM
As much as it pains me to say so, Cox looks like a viable alternative.  Yuck.

When it comes to internet, I'd tend to agree.  But I understand being mad about the billing; that's the reason I swore off AT&T for internet after I dropped their DSL services in 2000.  Never to go back.

While I do now have AT&T cell phone service, I didn't start that way.  When I started, it was Cingular.

Cox?  I haven't had any billing issues in the 10 plus years I've been with them, and I typically get rated or better speeds on the tier I'm on.  I also have landline service with them and have been pretty happy with them.

Contract?  Can't say that I know that they require it.  I didn't start with one.  Have one now, though, to keep prices lower.  It will expire however in December.  I also have their whole home DVR service, and while I had a few issues with it, they listened to me enough to correct the core issue once it was discovered.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 11, 2012, 08:57:16 PM
As much as it pains me to say so, Cox looks like a viable alternative.  Yuck.

Down here south of everywhere, we have BTC (formerly Bixby Telephone Co.) DSL.  I'm happy with it.  We didn't opt for the fastest speed since a knowledgeable friend said that almost no place we wanted to connect with could go that fast anyway.  It would be kind of like having an highway 180 mph speed limit and a 1960s VW Bug.  At least a few years ago, unless you were a gamer, you didn't really need the fastest speed.  The way I understand the system is that Cox type networks slow down with increased number of users on line at any particular time but DSL doesn't do that.

Quote from: Hoss on June 11, 2012, 09:03:09 PM
When it comes to internet, I'd tend to agree.  But I understand being mad about the billing; that's the reason I swore off AT&T for internet after I dropped their DSL services in 2000.  Never to go back.

While I do now have AT&T cell phone service, I didn't start that way.  When I started, it was Cingular.

Cox?  I haven't had any billing issues in the 10 plus years I've been with them, and I typically get rated or better speeds on the tier I'm on.  I also have landline service with them and have been pretty happy with them.

Contract?  Can't say that I know that they require it.  I didn't start with one.  Have one now, though, to keep prices lower.  It will expire however in December.  I also have their whole home DVR service, and while I had a few issues with it, they listened to me enough to correct the core issue once it was discovered.

Cingular was much better for cell.  When AT & T 'bought' them, I almost changed.  But when looking at the poor ratings the rest get, not sure it would be much better.  Verizon gets good opinions, but they play games with the 3g/4g.  So, I wait.  No big problem, since the phones I use are so old.

Quote from: Red Arrow on June 11, 2012, 09:10:06 PM
Down here south of everywhere, we have BTC (formerly Bixby Telephone Co.) DSL.  I'm happy with it.  We didn't opt for the fastest speed since a knowledgeable friend said that almost no place we wanted to connect with could go that fast anyway.  It would be kind of like having an highway 180 mph speed limit and a 1960s VW Bug.  At least a few years ago, unless you were a gamer, you didn't really need the fastest speed.  The way I understand the system is that Cox type networks slow down with increased number of users on line at any particular time but DSL doesn't do that.

3 mbps is plenty for what I do right now.  But I am planning to get netflix, new tv, and faster computers (2 or 3) for some software development I am doing.  So, I have been trying to speed things up.  Windstream came by and told me their wire could go 12 to 15 mbps and my wire was the hold up.  So last weekend, I re-wired the house phones with CAT5e cable.  Have one more run to complete the chore, then we will see.  I did see an increase from about 3.5 to almost 6 average.  (www.speedtest.net).  So, I know there is some improvement to be gained.

Looking at wired/wireless routers - Cisco EA4500 is leading contender so far.  Sometime back, there was a big discussion about the best - I can't remember all that was said - is there something better out there now/yet?? 

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 11, 2012, 09:12:08 PM
Cingular was much better for cell.  When AT & T 'bought' them, I almost changed.  But when looking at the poor ratings the rest get, not sure it would be much better.  Verizon gets good opinions, but they play games with the 3g/4g.  So, I wait.  No big problem, since the phones I use are so old.

I had to get a new phone when TDMA (AT&T) service was finally discontinued.  I had to leave my $25/mo plan that I hardly used for a $40/mo plan that I hardly ever use.  I actually get a slight discount through my employer but by the time taxes etc are added back in, it comes out to about $39/mo.  I have in excess of 4500 roll-over minutes on a 450 min/mo plan.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 11, 2012, 09:19:59 PM
3 mbps is plenty for what I do right now.  But I am planning to get netflix, new tv, and faster computers (2 or 3) for some software development I am doing.  So, I have been trying to speed things up.  Windstream came by and told me their wire could go 12 to 15 mbps and my wire was the hold up.  So last weekend, I re-wired the house phones with CAT5e cable.  Have one more run to complete the chore, then we will see.  I did see an increase from about 3.5 to almost 6 average.  (www.speedtest.net).  So, I know there is some improvement to be gained.
Looking at wired/wireless routers - Cisco EA4500 is leading contender so far.  Sometime back, there was a big discussion about the best - I can't remember all that was said - is there something better out there now/yet?? 

We have expanded basic cable on the TV.  Nothing fancy.  This computer is a 2.93 GHz iMac.  Your speed test showed 4.15Mbps download and .93Mbps upload. We just have regular old TV coax, I forget the number.

Quote from: Red Arrow on June 11, 2012, 09:10:06 PM
The way I understand the system is that Cox type networks slow down with increased number of users on line at any particular time but DSL doesn't do that.

Yes and no. DSL is shared once it hits the DSLAM, but your line is 100% yours. The pipe itself is shared with Cox, although they have something around 8 DOCSIS channels now. That's around 300Mbps per node, which tend to have a few hundred customers each.

If you're familiar with Ethernet, you may recall the olden days when it used coax. Cable Internet works on the same concept, just with broadband instead of baseband signalling. DSL is more like switched Ethernet with twisted pair wiring.

Quote from: nathanm on June 11, 2012, 11:13:42 PM
Yes and no. DSL is shared once it hits the DSLAM, but your line is 100% yours. The pipe itself is shared with Cox, although they have something around 8 DOCSIS channels now. That's around 300Mbps per node, which tend to have a few hundred customers each.

If you're familiar with Ethernet, you may recall the olden days when it used coax. Cable Internet works on the same concept, just with broadband instead of baseband signalling. DSL is more like switched Ethernet with twisted pair wiring.

You do need to have a newer modem to take advantage of the DOCSIS3.0 spec which allows up to 8 bonded downstream channels (which, in essence, allows for better load sharing when the CMTS nodes are saturated with more users).

AT&T can't come close to the speeds Cox has.  I understand most people don't need blazing speed; however, I do work from home part of the time and speed definitely helps.

However, DSL suffers the further from the CO you are.  And that hasn't really changed much aside from those people who actually do have U-Verse.  When I had DSL, I lived it at 16th & Memorial; the CO was at 41st and Memorial.  It was about 17,000 line feet away, which restricted me to 384kbps (essentially about 8 times faster than the fastest dialup at the time and ten times slower than AT&T's fastest advertised speed).

The Cox tier I have is 28mbps down/6mbps up.  My actual speeds when I test are closer to about 34mbps down.

Quote from: Red Arrow on June 11, 2012, 09:10:06 PM
The way I understand the system is that Cox type networks slow down with increased number of users on line at any particular time but DSL doesn't do that.

Think of cable modem as a fat water pipe coming into your neighborhood.  The pressure is great when you are the only house hooked up, but when all your neighbors jump on you have to share with them and pressure drops.
DSL would be like a smaller water line, yet it goes directly to the water company and isnt affected by your neighbors usage.

Satellite Internet has finally come of age, sort of.
We now offer Excede by ViaSat. It was Wildblue but ViaSat launched a Satellite last year that has a very large capacity for subscribers.
When it started up in March. Downloads were moving at 28 Mbps and Upload at 3Mbps.
With more subscribers added on daily those numbers have already dropped to 17 down and 1.5 up.
The promised speed is up to 12 Mbps down and up to 3 Mbps upload.
$49.99 plus a $9.99 rental fee a Month will get you 10 GB allowance.
$79.99 plus a $9.99 rental will get 15 GB
$129.99 plus $9.99 rental will get 25 Gb

At this time they have not started capping Monthly usage but it will soon start sometime this summer.
The cost is $49.99 install and the first Month of service up front. So if you have family or friends living in the country side with slow dial up. Have them give me a call. 918-251-6002

We have been very happy with Direct TV.   Happy we made the switch from U-Verse which totally sucked.   We have Direct TV for television, Cox cable for internet and AT&T for cell and land line, which we are still having issues with.  AT&T has become bloated and indifferent, their customer service leaves a lot to be desired. 

Quote from: DolfanBob on June 12, 2012, 09:20:08 AM
Satellite Internet has finally come of age, sort of.
We now offer Excede by ViaSat. It was Wildblue but ViaSat launched a Satellite last year that has a very large capacity for subscribers.
When it started up in March. Downloads were moving at 28 Mbps and Upload at 3Mbps.
With more subscribers added on daily those numbers have already dropped to 17 down and 1.5 up.
The promised speed is up to 12 Mbps down and up to 3 Mbps upload.
$49.99 plus a $9.99 rental fee a Month will get you 10 GB allowance.
$79.99 plus a $9.99 rental will get 15 GB
$129.99 plus $9.99 rental will get 25 Gb

At this time they have not started capping Monthly usage but it will soon start sometime this summer.
The cost is $49.99 install and the first Month of service up front. So if you have family or friends living in the country side with slow dial up. Have them give me a call. 918-251-6002

I'd blow through 25gb in a week easy.

At the end of my current Cox contract I may dump TV with them and look to satellite, but that won't be until December, so you might hear from me then.  Probably keep internet and landline with them.

Hoss. For my City friends I always tell them to keep Cox internet. I even have it at my house. It is the fastest and cheapest out there. That is why I said that Satellite internet "sort of" has come of age.
Give me a call when you are ready and I will get you the best deal you can get. That goes for all my TNF family.

Had to bump this thread since I posted about a year ago in it. I finally gave up on Uverse. Its expensive, the selection is dominated by informercials, which I hate paying for, and the final straw was an increase in rate with no explanation. Like they thought I might not notice.

We decided to keep the internet for now as they promised to double its speed. Might as well have promised to triple it for all I know. thats just sales talk. Also have phones through them and the service is getting worse. That's soon on the block too.

We're thinking of swearing off tube completely. The wife likes our ROKU for movies and favorite sitcoms but it doesn't have History, military, msnbc, local news and a few others I enjoy. It has Fox...go figure.

Anyway, can't I still get programming with an antenna through the air?

Quote from: AquaMan on March 15, 2013, 06:02:47 PM
Had to bump this thread since I posted about a year ago in it. I finally gave up on Uverse. Its expensive, the selection is dominated by informercials, which I hate paying for, and the final straw was an increase in rate with no explanation. Like they thought I might not notice.

We decided to keep the internet for now as they promised to double its speed. Might as well have promised to triple it for all I know. thats just sales talk. Also have phones through them and the service is getting worse. That's soon on the block too.

We're thinking of swearing off tube completely. The wife likes our ROKU for movies and favorite sitcoms but it doesn't have History, military, msnbc, local news and a few others I enjoy. It has Fox...go figure.

Anyway, can't I still get programming with an antenna through the air?

I think ATT sux in every way. Not only has their cost to consumers far exceeded inflation, their other services reek of corporate omnipotence.

Only during catastrophes does ATT rule supreme.  

Meanwhile, I need a new internet provider other than Cox or ATT....suggestions? I refuse to get bundled up.

Quote from: Teatownclown on March 15, 2013, 06:28:57 PM
I think ATT sux in every way. Not only has their cost to consumers far exceeded inflation, their other services reek of corporate omnipotence.

Only during catastrophes does ATT rule supreme.  

Meanwhile, I need a new internet provider other than Cox or ATT....suggestions? I refuse to get bundled up.

Hughes Net might be the only other alternative.  I've got ATT for internet, not crazy about dealing with them, but it's a necessary evil to deal with them or Cox for our businesses.

Quote from: Conan71 on March 15, 2013, 06:36:19 PM
Hughes Net might be the only other alternative.  I've got ATT for internet, not crazy about dealing with them, but it's a necessary evil to deal with them or Cox for our businesses.

ATT has a different Modem that came out late 2012....PACE 411N anyone know anything? Old 2WIRE modem seems a bit glitchy. Wish ATT offered just internet.

Conan, quit playing on the internet...watch MSNBC as they are re showing our hero from 2012 election on Ed Shultz! Bartenders rule!

Everything's political....lol

Thanks for the effort!

Quote from: Teatownclown on March 15, 2013, 07:04:34 PM
ATT has a different Modem that came out late 2012....PACE 411N anyone know anything? Old 2WIRE modem seems a bit glitchy. Wish ATT offered just internet.

They do, you just have to ask for it specifically.  They are pressured to up-sell bundles, though.

Quote from: patric on March 17, 2013, 11:54:45 AM
They do, you just have to ask for it specifically.  They are pressured to up-sell bundles, though.

Ditto with Cox,
I have internet sans cable.

Quote from: AquaMan on March 15, 2013, 06:02:47 PM
Had to bump this thread since I posted about a year ago in it. I finally gave up on Uverse. Its expensive, the selection is dominated by informercials, which I hate paying for, and the final straw was an increase in rate with no explanation. Like they thought I might not notice.

We decided to keep the internet for now as they promised to double its speed. Might as well have promised to triple it for all I know. thats just sales talk. Also have phones through them and the service is getting worse. That's soon on the block too.

We're thinking of swearing off tube completely. The wife likes our ROKU for movies and favorite sitcoms but it doesn't have History, military, msnbc, local news and a few others I enjoy. It has Fox...go figure.

Anyway, can't I still get programming with an antenna through the air?

Yes, you can get over the air.  Takes an antenna.

Internet speed - check this out - this gives an indication.

www.speedtest.org

I am convinced that ATT is the lamest company in America.

If this is any indication where corporate America is taking us, then we are doomed!

Is it that hard to get the representative you have spoken with to re connect with you?

Absolutely, the worst company ever.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on March 17, 2013, 07:50:53 PM
Yes, you can get over the air.  Takes an antenna.

Internet speed - check this out - this gives an indication.

www.speedtest.org

Thanks. Shows a download speed of 5.69mb/s and an upload of .843mb/s

I'll have to check to see what they promised. Doesn't sound too fast.

Quote from: AquaMan on March 20, 2013, 02:03:11 PM
Thanks. Shows a download speed of 5.69mb/s and an upload of .843mb/s

I'll have to check to see what they promised. Doesn't sound too fast.

If nothing else much is going on the line, it is fast enough to use Netflix for a movie. 

Cox "advertises" up to 55 mb/s.  Don't know if I believe them, but am getting ready to try.  I just hate their nonsense so much it is very difficult to give them more money...

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on March 20, 2013, 07:33:59 PM

If nothing else much is going on the line, it is fast enough to use Netflix for a movie. 

Cox "advertises" up to 55 mb/s.  Don't know if I believe them, but am getting ready to try.  I just hate their nonsense so much it is very difficult to give them more money...

I'm on premier and get consistent speeds of about 33 mb/s download.  If that's of any use to you.

Quote from: Hoss on March 20, 2013, 08:51:12 PM
I'm on premier and get consistent speeds of about 33 mb/s download.  If that's of any use to you.

I pay for 12 down, 2 up and I get about 14 down, 8 up.

As far as Netflix goes, my parents do it just fine with AT&T's 1.5M service.

Quote from: Teatownclown on March 20, 2013, 01:20:09 PM
I am convinced that ATT is the lamest company in America.

If this is any indication where corporate America is taking us, then we are doomed!

Is it that hard to get the representative you have spoken with to re connect with you?

Absolutely, the worst company ever.

The only reason you feel that way is because you have never had to deal with Windstream.  AT&T is a breath of fresh air compared to that pack of crap.  Family in Broken Arrow used to think the old GTE was pretty mediocre, then they got the "sorriest" example of telecom - Valor!  THEN, just when one thinks it couldn't get any worse, along comes Windstream and makes it even worse!!

I was trying to help one of them with phone/internet.  Windstream LIES about how they can go up to 12 mb/s.  Even send one of their liars to the house to "test" the incoming signal at that little box on the back wall - he said he was getting 14 mb/s at that box!!  And said the rest of the wiring in the house must be the problem.

Ok, I can fix that - rewired a new phone jack 6 feet from that box with good CAT 5 cable (indoor/outdoor), then plugged their modem in with NO other phone connections.  You guessed it - max of 5.5 mb/s, with an average of about 4.  Often it is under 3.

Of course, there must be "some other influence" on the signal in the house.  Yeah - it's the Windstream influence!  Kind of sad how Reagan de-regulated telecom to the point where they can just do any kind of fraud they want with no recourse to require conformance to their lies.  Or choice....AT & T won't move into the area.  So, they have gone with cell phone only in the last couple months, and just do without internet for now.  Probably will get a cell modem....

I would like to hear critiques from anyone who has satellite from DirectTV as relates to cost and reliability. I would not need internet or phone service.

As far as outage during storms, I have a protected area under one of the eaves of my old gabled home. Would that improve reception during storms or is it the signal that degrades before it reaches the dish?

Otherwise I'm looking for a good antenna.

Quote from: AquaMan on March 21, 2013, 09:10:48 AM
I would like to hear critiques from anyone who has satellite from DirectTV as relates to cost and reliability. I would not need internet or phone service.

As far as outage during storms, I have a protected area under one of the eaves of my old gabled home. Would that improve reception during storms or is it the signal that degrades before it reaches the dish?

Otherwise I'm looking for a good antenna.

AquaMan. I can get you the best deal on Satellite. If you have Cox I will definitely beat their T.V. rates. I have Cox internet at my house because my kids do gaming or I would have Exede satellite internet. It is over 12 mgs download. Problem is the data plan is 10 gig monthly. You can get more but at a higher cost. PM me and I can let you know about the deal.

Quote from: DolfanBob on March 21, 2013, 09:28:58 AM
I can get you the best deal on Satellite.

Bob got me a great deal. Use me as a reference and I will buy you food and/or drink.

Quote from: RecycleMichael on March 21, 2013, 11:24:29 AM
Bob got me a great deal. Use me as a reference and I will buy you food and/or drink.

Already had you in mind Mike.

Quote from: AquaMan on March 21, 2013, 09:10:48 AM
I would like to hear critiques from anyone who has satellite from DirectTV as relates to cost and reliability. I would not need internet or phone service.

As far as outage during storms, I have a protected area under one of the eaves of my old gabled home. Would that improve reception during storms or is it the signal that degrades before it reaches the dish?

"Rain fade" is grossly exaggerated.   It can happen when a thunderhead with enough mass (water) passes between you and the satellite, attenuating the signal for a few seconds.  Since it is attenuation (and not complete blockage) some customers have installed larger aftermarket dishes in order to "gather" more of the signal and experience less attenuation, but most viewers just tolerate the interruption (sometimes using the opportunity to check their Over-The-Air antenna for local stations).  A poorly aimed dish will experience a lot of rain fade, however.

In this part of the world, the dish "looks" at a rather steep angle, so obstructions above the dish may block some or all of the different satellites it should see.
It might be a matter of how high or low it is mounted in relation to the gable, but there's no hard rule about mounting your dish above the gable, for that matter, as long as it has a view of specific points over the Equator:

(http://forums.solidsignal.com/auximages/satlocs.png)

The old round dishes used to be a breeze to aim because you only had to see one satellite (That's why they are still a favorite of RV folks).  I once had mine on the ground propped up with bricks temporarily, (and you can still do that in a pinch) but for a permanent installation, find someone with the tools and be done with it.
I have even put a dish beneath a fiberglass roof and had it work fine.  (Fiberglass is more transparent than wood or metal)  Just sweep the snow off.

As far as price, you are at the mercy of the likes of Viacom and AMC who raise rates and pass it on to carriers like Cox and DirecTV, so rate increases are a reality with whoever you go with.  DirecTV gives me a better deal for the channels I watch, your mileage may vary depending on your likes.

Quote from: RecycleMichael on March 21, 2013, 11:24:29 AM
Bob got me a great deal. Use me as a reference and I will buy you food and/or drink.

I would Mike, but us surfer dudes are too stupid to know what a reference is.....

Seriously, I'll pm you Bob when I finish the third coat of poly on the wood floors I that I have dedicated for spring break.

Thank you Patrick. I don't see dishes in my neighborhood (just south of downtown). Maybe the hills out west get in the way.

Quote from: AquaMan on March 21, 2013, 09:10:48 AM
I would like to hear critiques from anyone who has satellite from DirectTV as relates to cost and reliability. I would not need internet or phone service.

As far as outage during storms, I have a protected area under one of the eaves of my old gabled home. Would that improve reception during storms or is it the signal that degrades before it reaches the dish?

Otherwise I'm looking for a good antenna.

Just be ready for the very occasional dropout from hard storms (rain fade).  Like when you want to see the radar on the local stations....  I lost signal earlier this year in OKC during their snowfall...was only out while the heaviest snow was falling.  Back on in less than 30 minutes.  Get an over the air antenna and a signal switch and you are fine.

Kudos Patric. I could not have said or explained that any better.

Sounds like a plan AquaMan.

Quote from: AquaMan on March 21, 2013, 12:40:07 PM
I don't see dishes in my neighborhood (just south of downtown). Maybe the hills out west get in the way.

The Elevation for Tulsa is about 47 degrees, so you should be fine.

Maybe your neighbors are good hiders:

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2456/3551754632_61ebe538a1_o.jpg)
(http://www.aerialsbath.co.uk/communities/3/004/006/976/393/images/4525426626.jpg)