We get to be third behind Kentucky and Mississippi in terms of percentage of population who smokes. Yea for us.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150779/Smoking-Rates-Remain-Highest-Kentucky-Lowest-Utah.aspx#2 (http://www.gallup.com/poll/150779/Smoking-Rates-Remain-Highest-Kentucky-Lowest-Utah.aspx#2)
Quote from: joiei on November 17, 2011, 04:41:13 PM
We get to be third behind Kentucky and Mississippi in terms of percentage of population who smokes. Yea for us.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150779/Smoking-Rates-Remain-Highest-Kentucky-Lowest-Utah.aspx#2 (http://www.gallup.com/poll/150779/Smoking-Rates-Remain-Highest-Kentucky-Lowest-Utah.aspx#2)
We're sorta id driven here.
Ok, so now why is this? People will argue that we are fat and have high rates of diabeties, not because of say ignorance or poor descision making habits, but because we are poor and poor people can only afford unhealthy food. But why high rates of smoking? Poor people surely can't, or shouldn't afford smoking. Costs money, stinks, is bad for you and those around you, makes you look old before your time, is dirty, etc. so why?
Quote from: TheArtist on November 17, 2011, 05:57:10 PM
Ok, so now why is this? People will argue that we are fat and have high rates of diabeties, not because of say stupidity or poor descision making, but because we are poor and poor people can only afford unhealthy food. But why high rates of smoking? Poor people surely can't, or shouldn't afford smoking. Costs money, stinks, is bad for you and those around you, makes you look old before your time, is dirty, etc. so why?
It must be a genetic addiction. Mom and dad smoked so I must smoke.....
Quote from: joiei on November 17, 2011, 04:41:13 PM
We get to be third behind Kentucky and Mississippi in terms of percentage of population who smokes.
We don't get to be first in anything. Boo hiss.....
Just for the record. I quit in 1986. :)
Quote from: TheArtist on November 17, 2011, 05:57:10 PM
But why high rates of smoking? Poor people surely can't, or shouldn't afford smoking.
Smoking is inversly correlated to wealth, education, and physical fitness. That is to say: people below a certain level of wealth are more likely to smoke. Less educated people are more likely to smoke (I realize this has a correlation to wealth also). And people that are less physically active are more likely to smoke (that is: if your hobbies are hiking, biking, and tennis you are less likely to smoke than if your hobbies are NASCAR, poker, and watching football). Oklahoma does have lots of uneducate, inactive, poor people... so that goes a long way to explaining it.
BUT... I'd think Arkansas, Texas, and Lousiana share a similar demographic in those respects. Maybe our teaxes are lower? Indian Smoke Shops offering cheap smokes? Lack of public education? Poor health care (ie. not many primary care doctors harassing patients to stop)?
No answers really... just thoughts.
/ramble
Quote from: cannon_fodder on November 17, 2011, 06:10:42 PM
Smoking is inversly correlated to wealth, education, and physical fitness. That is to say: people below a certain level of wealth are more likely to smoke. Less educated people are more likely to smoke (I realize this has a correlation to wealth also). And people that are less physically active are more likely to smoke (that is: if your hobbies are hiking, biking, and tennis you are less likely to smoke than if your hobbies are NASCAR, poker, and watching football). Oklahoma does have lots of uneducate, inactive, poor people... so that goes a long way to explaining it.
BUT... I'd think Arkansas, Texas, and Lousiana share a similar demographic in those respects. Maybe our teaxes are lower? Indian Smoke Shops offering cheap smokes? Lack of public education? Poor health care (ie. not many primary care doctors harassing patients to stop)?
No answers really... just thoughts.
/ramble
Interesting. The whole idea in a slate of new tobacco taxes in 2005 or 2006 was supposed to discourage tobacco use and price it out of the range of those who could least afford it so they would adopt healthier lifestyles. One of the myriad of reasons I quit smoking and using any tobacco products was the ever-increasing cost. I could easily afford such a habit, but what I notice is people in middle and upper income brackets thought pragmatically that a $5.00 a day habit could easily translate into something healthy like a carbon bicycle or a new bag of Calloway clubs. Many of my friends in upper income brackets complained of the high cost and did quit.
Many of my friends in the lower income brackets are still puffing away and still bitching about the high cost of tobacco. Personally, I did quit, assumed a healthier lifestyle and I grumble about others who still smoke, raising health insurance rates for everyone else.
O hear ya Conan. I explained to a friend recently, who is HORRIBLE with money, that they have smoked a pack a day for the last 15 years, at $5 a pack (inflation + no interest on savings, so ignore price increases) = $27,000. The guy has always wanted a Mustang GT convertible. You can get a very nice used one for just about $25,000...
Quote from: cannon_fodder on November 17, 2011, 10:39:54 PM
O hear ya Conan. I explained to a friend recently, who is HORRIBLE with money, that they have smoked a pack a day for the last 15 years, at $5 a pack (inflation + no interest on savings, so ignore price increases) = $27,000. The guy has always wanted a Mustang GT convertible. You can get a very nice used one for just about $25,000...
Except that if they are like me, then that five bucks a day started going somewhere else. I know I always struggled to buy my smokes, and would sacrifice other things in my life to make sure I could have them (you know just a meal or something else unimportant). Since I quit, I have found plenty of things that sucks up the money just as quickly to keep it from going into a savings. Oh, and I also quit after finding out that the price was going up to five bucks. Last pack I bought was a few hours before the price increase.
The good news is that the current practice of "demonizing" smoking, educating people on its effect, and price increases/taxes has led to a decline in the total number of tobacco users
From the CDC
(http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/tables/trends/cig_smoking/images/trends_graph.jpg)
I also found this on the CDC site
(http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/state_data/state_highlights/2010/states/oklahoma/images/currentsmoke.jpg)
The CDC recommends that Oklahoma needs to raise taxes on tobacco products to meet the national average, provide more legislation to create protected smoke free environments and provide more quit assist programs.
(http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/state_data/state_highlights/2010/states/oklahoma/images/tax.jpg)
Read more:
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/state_data/state_highlights/2010/states/oklahoma/index.htm (http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/state_data/state_highlights/2010/states/oklahoma/index.htm)
Quote from: carltonplace on November 18, 2011, 07:50:22 AM
The CDC recommends that Oklahoma needs to raise taxes on tobacco products to meet the national average, provide more legislation to create protected smoke free environments and provide more quit assist programs.
That's when the tobacco lobbyists get their legislator minions to yell "big government", "controlling our choices", "raising taxes".
Finally my theory that smokers are generally less educated has been quantified.
Its the Indians fault.....
The question of why those with lower education and lower income would smoke more has been raised. As someone who until recently was a service industry kid I think I can grant some insight. I think the conection is not at the education level (a famous german philosopher once said "where there is no smoking, there is no thinking"); instead its in the service industry (or other menial job) culture that comes hand in hand with poverty. Have you tried working a low paying crappy serice gig? It's stressful as it is completly unrewarding. Oftentimes the only people who get a break are those who smoke. If you ask one of the guys smoking out back of a restaurant (making 8/hour) why he doesn't quit he will tell you a few reasons 1. He is too busy with work to have the where-with-all to deal with the nicotine fits during a shift. 2. a cigarette (and a beer or ten) is the reward at the end of a long night. Classic pavlovian condictioning 3. If I do get a lull in service, I don't want to spend that time cleaning. I want to relax for a minute. If I just went and sat down somewhere, chef would bite my head off. Smoking on the other hand is justification to step outside and not work for 5 min. The same thing applies at the coffeeshop gigs i've had. Some of this can be mapped onto phone service gigs. I guess my point is that in lower paying (read service industry) jobs there is no sense of advancement or a goal or a future. You are in a holding pattern. If one didn't feel that one had a future (and felt that there was no way out) why bother thrying to save money on cigs or worry about your health? You're going to work yourelf to death before your 65 anyway. what's the point? It's service industry nihilism. (full discolsure: I quit smoking the month before I left my last service gig at whole foods.)
Quote from: jacobi on November 18, 2011, 11:18:39 AM
The question of why those with lower education and lower income would smoke more has been raised. As someone who until recently was a service industry kid I think I can grant some insight. I think the conection is not at the education level (a famous german philosopher once said "where there is no smoking, there is no thinking"); instead its in the service industry (or other menial job) culture that comes hand in hand with poverty. Have you tried working a low paying crappy serice gig? It's stressful as it is completly unrewarding. Oftentimes the only people who get a break are those who smoke. If you ask one of the guys smoking out back of a restaurant (making 8/hour) why he doesn't quit he will tell you a few reasons 1. He is too busy with work to have the where-with-all to deal with the nicotine fits during a shift. 2. a cigarette (and a beer or ten) is the reward at the end of a long night. Classic pavlovian condictioning 3. If I do get a lull in service, I don't want to spend that time cleaning. I want to relax for a minute. If I just went and sat down somewhere, chef would bite my head off. Smoking on the other hand is justification to step outside and not work for 5 min. The same thing applies at the coffeeshop gigs i've had. Some of this can be mapped onto phone service gigs. I guess my point is that in lower paying (read service industry) jobs there is no sense of advancement or a goal or a future. You are in a holding pattern. If one didn't feel that one had a future (and felt that there was no way out) why bother thrying to save money on cigs or worry about your health? You're going to work yourelf to death before your 65 anyway. what's the point? It's service industry nihilism. (full discolsure: I quit smoking the month before I left my last service gig at whole foods.)
Been there on the service industry...I can see your point
Quote from: jacobi on November 18, 2011, 11:18:39 AM
The question of why those with lower education and lower income would smoke more has been raised. As someone who until recently was a service industry kid I think I can grant some insight. I think the conection is not at the education level (a famous german philosopher once said "where there is no smoking, there is no thinking"); instead its in the service industry (or other menial job) culture that comes hand in hand with poverty. Have you tried working a low paying crappy serice gig? It's stressful as it is completly unrewarding. Oftentimes the only people who get a break are those who smoke. If you ask one of the guys smoking out back of a restaurant (making 8/hour) why he doesn't quit he will tell you a few reasons 1. He is too busy with work to have the where-with-all to deal with the nicotine fits during a shift. 2. a cigarette (and a beer or ten) is the reward at the end of a long night. Classic pavlovian condictioning 3. If I do get a lull in service, I don't want to spend that time cleaning. I want to relax for a minute. If I just went and sat down somewhere, chef would bite my head off. Smoking on the other hand is justification to step outside and not work for 5 min. The same thing applies at the coffeeshop gigs i've had. Some of this can be mapped onto phone service gigs. I guess my point is that in lower paying (read service industry) jobs there is no sense of advancement or a goal or a future. You are in a holding pattern. If one didn't feel that one had a future (and felt that there was no way out) why bother thrying to save money on cigs or worry about your health? You're going to work yourelf to death before your 65 anyway. what's the point? It's service industry nihilism. (full discolsure: I quit smoking the month before I left my last service gig at whole foods.)
Interesting take and I saw myself in that from when I had a service industry job.
Funny part is, I'm not sure tobacco ever really helped with the stress near as much as a long bike ride does. I used to smoke pretty much just out of blind habit when I smoked later in life. There were certain times of day or certain tasks which coincided well with a cig.
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 17, 2011, 06:04:50 PM
Just for the record. I quit in 1986. :)
HA ! I beat you by one year. 1985 and I quit because 85 cents was just to high.
Quote from: DolfanBob on November 18, 2011, 01:31:48 PM
HA ! I beat you by one year. 1985 and I quit because 85 cents was just to high.
I took up your slack.
I'll be a 3 year non-smoker in February.
Quote from: Townsend on November 18, 2011, 09:20:01 AM
That's when the tobacco lobbyists get their legislator minions to yell "big government", "controlling our choices", "raising taxes".
I wonder if we could convince these tobacco lobbyists to holler "big government, controlling our choices" etc. and have something done about those liquor laws?
Btw, I think we should ban food being sold in grocery stores for surely they can see what terrible things its doing to Oklahomans (obesity, diabeties, heart disease, etc. not to mention food addictions and things such as bolemia and anorexia). About 10 TIMES more Oklahomans are killed each year by bad food habits and addictions than by bad "drinking" habits and addictions.
Perhaps rather than making laws to ban this or that, many of our problems seem to stem from the same basic underlying things. We have thousands of people plucking the leaves off the branches of evil, and so few hacking away at its roots. "Look!, I spent all this time, money and effort and plucked a leaf!" meanwhile the root grows that much deeper and another leaf pops up somewhere else.
And how is it that so many Christians seem to be at the forefront of these new laws? I was always taught that.... in Heaven, the laws are "written on the hearts and minds of men" not in scrolls or in books, and that Christ teaches us to pray... "on earth as it is in Heaven". Thus a Christians direction would be to work to, create an earth where people do the right things because they truly think and feel they are the right things to do, not spend time and effort trying to get ever more laws written into books. The goals should be to reach out and figure out ways to create a world where fewer and fewer laws are needed, not more. My opinion anyway.
I couldn't help but notice that there were a number of you who are ex smokers. I was just wondering how long it has been since you quit, and if you still have cravings. I know that it's been 2 1/2 years since I quit and I still crave em when something brings em to mind, like this thread.
I don't miss them. It will be 7 years Feb. 13 for me. I quit smokeless tobacco Jan 31, 2007.
Quote from: custosnox on November 18, 2011, 03:18:58 PM
I couldn't help but notice that there were a number of you who are ex smokers. I was just wondering how long it has been since you quit, and if you still have cravings. I know that it's been 2 1/2 years since I quit and I still crave em when something brings em to mind, like this thread.
2.75 years. No cravings. I think I was done with smoking long before I quit.
I was "quit" for 2 years before picking them back up again last year. I'm finally quitting again (this is my 3rd week of being "quit"), but even after 2 years, I remember getting pretty bad cravings when I drank alcohol or was around a bunch of my friends who still smoked.
Quote from: Conan71 on November 18, 2011, 03:27:32 PM
I don't miss them. It will be 7 years Feb. 13 for me. I quit smokeless tobacco Jan 31, 2007.
That's about 3 weeks after I completely quit smoking. I tried the Skoal Bandits (because I couldn't stand the texture of full on smokeless tobacco, so getting my nictoine via tiny coffee filter seemed cleaner) but that lasted about 2 weeks.
My reasoning for the date is that I wanted to quit before my 40th birthday (which was 5-4-2007). I was successful and haven't fallen off the wagon yet.
Quote from: TURobY on November 18, 2011, 03:45:10 PM
I was "quit" for 2 years before picking them back up again last year. I'm finally quitting again (this is my 3rd week of being "quit"), but even after 2 years, I remember getting pretty bad cravings when I drank alcohol or was around a bunch of my friends who still smoked.
That was always the toughest for me. For instance, last week, I went out to a little bar at 12th/Memorial with some old friends of mine. Almost all smoke, but not like they used to. Then I started having tequila shots and some nasty 3.2 beer. I got my first full-on cancerstick craving in some time. I didn't succumb though. It usually lasts about 60 seconds now. When I first quit that craving would last 15 minutes.
Quote from: TURobY on November 18, 2011, 03:45:10 PM
I was "quit" for 2 years before picking them back up again last year. I'm finally quitting again (this is my 3rd week of being "quit"), but even after 2 years, I remember getting pretty bad cravings when I drank alcohol or was around a bunch of my friends who still smoked.
Good luck, the cravings do go away. My last cigarette was in the parking lot of Amsouth Bank in Destin, Fl on July 29, 1991. I still get cravings once in a while. They do go away. Nicotine is a cunning and powerful drug.
Quote from: joiei on November 18, 2011, 04:31:56 PM
Good luck, the cravings do go away. My last cigarette was in the parking lot of Amsouth Bank in Destin, Fl on July 29, 1991. I still get cravings once in a while. They do go away. Nicotine is a cunning and powerful drug.
Interesting how many people remember the last drag they took on a cigarette. I do as well. Mr. Lucky's on 41st St. listening to a band play. I had a horrible flue or RSV coming on. The next day I literally thought or hoped I might die soon.
Oh, and I quit smokeless tobacco Dec. 31, 07. I caught that error on a post Hoss quoted me on.
Quote from: Conan71 on November 18, 2011, 05:12:02 PM
Interesting how many people remember the last drag they took on a cigarette. I do as well. Mr. Lucky's on 41st St. listening to a band play. I had a horrible flue or RSV coming on. The next day I literally thought or hoped I might die soon.
Oh, and I quit smokeless tobacco Dec. 31, 07. I caught that error on a post Hoss quoted me on.
It was kind of symbolic for me. I was at work on a break with two cigs left in my pack. I smoked one, and broke the last one in half and threw it away. That was January 7 2007. I tried smokeless in May, and quit around Memorial Day. If you can really call it quit. I wound up giving the can to a friend of mine after using it twice.
EDIT; Actually it was the 17th. The 7th was a Sunday and I don't work on Sunday.
When I worked in the service industry (retail or restaurant) I don't think the proportion of smokers was any different (I've never habitually smoked). My wife works retail still and I'd hazard to guess fewer of her employees smoke than the 25% average in Oklahoma. The "crappy job so I smoke" things makes some sense... but many lawyers, accountants, and other professionals will tell you they are very unhappy with their jobs too and statistically they smoke half as much.
And my friends that are mechanics, oil field hands, or operating engineers - with lower education but in the later two cases higher wages than many professionals, seem to smoke more than the 25% average. So it doesn't appear to be wages or job satisfaction... but education itself. Which seems odd.
Perhaps it is socially acceptable for a cook to go out back and smoke or a crane operator to smoke between lifts but a Doctor, attorney, or office manager would find it cumbersome or socially unacceptable?
Quote from: Hoss on November 18, 2011, 05:28:16 PM
It was kind of symbolic for me. I was at work on a break with two cigs left in my pack. I smoked one, and broke the last one in half and threw it away. That was January 7 2007. I tried smokeless in May, and quit around Memorial Day. If you can really call it quit. I wound up giving the can to a friend of mine after using it twice.
EDIT; Actually it was the 17th. The 7th was a Sunday and I don't work on Sunday.
I bought a pack and was told that they were going up to five bucks a pack later that day, and I looked the guy in the eye and said "that's alright, because this is my last pack". I made that pack last several weeks, don't remember when I finally finished the last one. I had a bit of trouble with it at first because my two closest friends smoke and we would hang out and drink. After a couple of times of this and me grabbing a drag off of theirs for me to start avoiding it all together, or have a cigar handy.
You all are bunch of quitters aren't you? ;)
Quote from: dbacks fan on November 19, 2011, 04:49:23 PM
You all are bunch of quitters aren't you? ;)
Everyone hates a quitter...can't tell you how many times I heard that while I was trying to..
I used the old "rehab is for quitters" joke on a guy once. Then I realized it was Steve Pryor. Ooops. Anyone seen him around lately?
Quote from: Conan71 on November 19, 2011, 07:14:24 PM
I used the old "rehab is for quitters" joke on a guy once. Then I realized it was Steve Pryor. Ooops. Anyone seen him around lately?
All the time...he's doing great. Last week at the Colony with Les Paul Benjamin, Jessie Aycock, Dustin Pittsley and the horn player from GO GO PLumbay. It was terrific. He's been doing toned down shows at Bodean and Dusty Dog with his bandmates Lloyd "the right" Price, "skin tight" David White, and Damon Daniels on skins.
Catch 'em while you can. My friends come off planes to Tulsa and their first question is "where's Pryor playing?"
Sometimes, this town has the best sound. Don't tell me this town ain't got no heart 'cause I can hear it beat out loud!
Morouse was living here for awhile...use to play for Stevie Wonder
We had Denny and Annie Ellicott at last years Deco Ball fundraiser for the Tulsa Art Deco Museum. Great sound.
QuoteSo it doesn't appear to be wages or job satisfaction... but education itself.
I guess what I meant was the culture that surrounds the service industry supports it. I know that if I go back to work at a coffeeshop or a kitchen or a even a grocery store, I will take it back up. No doubt.
Also, in my time in the kitchen, non-smokers (both front of house and back of house) were most definitely the minority.
Also, lawers and accountants maybe unhappy but they can have a sense of achievment that one cannot get by serving a bunch of ungrateful petite bourgeois spawn 6-7 nights a week.
As to your statement about education, concider the amount of nurses that smoke. They certainly have a high level of education but it has always been my experience that nurses are the most likley to sound like female bailiffs on night court.